Rabble Rants Week 2:

Topic 1:

Loblaws posted record second quarter profits again this year while Canadians are lining up at food banks. Did you also know they (Choice Properties) are also the largest real estate investment trust (REIT) in Canada? And that they are expanding more into residential / rental buildings?

Banking, pharmacies, food and shelter - all commodified to the benefit of the wealthiest.

Topic 2:

After the derailment of a train on the Scarborough light rail network highlights the chronic underfunding of transit, particularly in marginalized neighbourhoods. Many are calling the new Mayor of Toronto, Olivia Chow, a champion of transit - does this mean things are looking up for commuters? Listen in and find out.

References:

• TTC Riders on Scarborough RT
• CP24: What Olivia Chow is promising to do as Toronto's new mayor | CP24.com
• Transit Federal Funding Information
• CBC: Underfunding Transit in Canada
• CBC: Scarborough RT Derailment
• See Choice Properties Portfolio Yourself
• BlogTO: Loblaw made $508M in the last three months amid cost of living crisis

[Jessa]: 00:00:03

Well, our friends at Loblaws are in the news again. They've released their second

[Jessa]: 00:00:09

quarter profits. We're looking at $508 million. The shareholders can divvy up amongst

[Jessa]: 00:00:18

themselves. Just to be clear, that is just in the second quarter alone. This is

[Jessa]: 00:00:25

like a 30, over a 30% increase from what they earned last year. And I don't think

[Jessa]: 00:00:31

I need to remind anybody of what groceries cost right now. Santiago, didn't you just go

[Jessa]: 00:00:37

grocery shopping?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:00:39

Yep, basic ingredients today cost me $90 and I still have no idea

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:00:47

what happened. What walked into the grocery store to just like

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:00:53

try and spend as little money as possible. And it seems that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:00:57

no matter how hard one tries, you cannot, you cannot spend. affordable

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:06

amount of money at the grocery store and I'm not even talking

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:09

about one of the more expensive groceries. I'm talking about

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:14

No Frills in Parkdale where it's supposed to be one of the cheaper

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:20

grocery stores.

[Jessa]: 00:01:22

You mean you're not boycotting La Blas?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:25

I mean, I don't know that I could boycott Loblaws if I wanted to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:29

not like well Maybe like Loblaws as in Loblaws the grocery store

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:33

but not like I still got to pick up my ADHD medication and my Anxiety

[Jessa]: 00:01:38

at Shoppers.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:38

medication as shoppers and the no frills is like so close to them,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:42

right? Like the closest grocery store would be far away and then it's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:01:47

like, okay. Well, it's still Not great. So

[Jessa]: 00:01:54

As I was doing my notes here and knowing the levels of food insecurity that exist, I'm

[Jessa]: 00:02:02

going through the articles to find the figures, you know, just to see how much

[Jessa]: 00:02:05

money they made. The numbers aren't really important, but the way almost all those

[Jessa]: 00:02:11

articles were framed was just awful. They gave no space at all to talking about

[Jessa]: 00:02:18

groceries or food security advocates. They spent most of that space allowing Loblaws

[Jessa]: 00:02:26

to defend these profits. To again say like they're not all from food, we have a really

[Jessa]: 00:02:31

diverse portfolio, manufacturers are still making us pay a lot of money for what

[Jessa]: 00:02:37

we need and it completely lost focus on the fact that this company is making record

[Jessa]: 00:02:47

profits off of starving Canadians. Right? Food bank usage is going through the

[Jessa]: 00:02:54

roof. They cannot keep up with demand at all. Meanwhile, they're rolling in the Benjamins

[Jessa]: 00:03:00

at the grocery store. This is maddening, maddening.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:06

Yeah, to say the least. And it's such an intersectional issue

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:12

too, because this plays into all the aspects of people's life.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:18

that anxiety affects everything, but also not having access to nutritious

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:25

food affects the way you think. It affects your ability to have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:30

energy throughout the day. I mean, this is really a case of capitalism

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:36

shooting itself in the foot once again in the name of short-term

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:39

profits, but it's so maddeningly like in a fit, not even in it,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:46

just absurd. It's just so completely absurd and It doesn't end

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:53

here either because we've seen inflation slowing down, but it has

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:03:58

had no effect on the grocery stores and people already can't

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:02

afford. So it's like where is the natural stopping point for them

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:05

where they say enough? We've price gouged enough. The answer is nowhere

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:09

because we know that growth is the constant necessity. Otherwise,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:16

if they're not growing in profits, their shareholders won't be happy

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:20

and they'll make changes and price gauges even more and they'll

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:24

buy up everyone else and it's already all bought up by three people

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:28

so it's this is just another depressing part of living in late stage

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:04:34

capitalism i guess

[Jessa]: 00:04:37

but you got your grocery rebate, right? Don't worry, the federal liberals have come

[Jessa]: 00:04:42

in and saved the day. Of course, the NDP will take credit for it and we'll be fine.

[Jessa]: 00:04:47

That will cover not even my family's week of groceries. All of this kind of coming

[Jessa]: 00:04:55

together at the same time, we're getting reports that food bank use is just going to

[Jessa]: 00:05:00

go up even higher. And the focus that was on blah, in the House of Commons. It's

[Jessa]: 00:05:08

still appalling to me that we don't go, you know, we still have terms like greedflation

[Jessa]: 00:05:13

to describe this and not as you say, capitalism shooting itself in the foot, although

[Jessa]: 00:05:18

I'm not sure it is shooting itself in the foot. As I dug it. into the story and

[Jessa]: 00:05:23

was reading about Loblaws and alerted by our guest from this week, Bruno of the York

[Jessa]: 00:05:30

Southwest Intenet Union, when he kind of had that ominous line about Loblaws getting

[Jessa]: 00:05:37

into the housing game. I think at first I thought he was joking, but I dug into it

[Jessa]: 00:05:43

and yeah of course choice properties there. One of the largest you know called REITs.

[Jessa]: 00:05:53

I should insert here what that acronym is. It's like real estate investment trusts

[Jessa]: 00:05:59

or something like that. FEC.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:06:01

That's

[Jessa]: 00:06:01

Okay.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:06:01

exactly what it is.

[Jessa]: 00:06:04

All right. So they're the largest one of these things in Canada and most of their

[Jessa]: 00:06:09

stuff for now is of course my dog.

[Jessa]: 00:06:22

Oh, it's tasty!

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:06:24

uh... largest reit

[Jessa]: 00:06:28

Okay, so, you know, yeah, so they're the largest real estate investment trust in

[Jessa]: 00:06:35

Canada, which means they own a lot of properties. And they even say on their website

[Jessa]: 00:06:40

that they benefit from their relationship with Loblaws. It's essentially one in the same.

[Jessa]: 00:06:46

But it's the way they frame how their portfolio is based that really got me mad because

[Jessa]: 00:06:51

of how we talk about essential goods being controlled by profiteers. rupulous insatiable

[Jessa]: 00:06:59

profiteers. They boast about most of their portfolio being necessity-based businesses,

[Jessa]: 00:07:10

meaning things you need to survive. They house them all, you know? All those things,

[Jessa]: 00:07:16

pay leases to choice properties. And they're also getting into rental properties.

[Jessa]: 00:07:22

You look at their website, they've got plans for Toronto and a few other urban

[Jessa]: 00:07:25

centers. All of it looks very gentrifying. I can't imagine any of it's going to be affordable.

[Jessa]: 00:07:34

This is a bad development for me, you know, to start off getting really mad about

[Jessa]: 00:07:38

the groceries and then spiraling down to realize just how many essential goods are

[Jessa]: 00:07:46

controlled in this way and becoming out of reach.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:07:50

And I think one thing that's really absurd about this situation is

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:07:56

that This, I feel like is a very familiar thing for a lot of

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:02

people from third world countries, like this kind of relationship

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:05

to a single business or a single individual. What immediately comes

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:10

to mind is Mexico and someone like Carlos Lim, who, you know,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:14

people say you can't go a day in Mexico without contributing to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:19

his fortune somehow. Usually people are aware of it, right? But

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:26

In Canada, we're so completely disconnected from how much of

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:31

an oligarchy we live in. I mean, people are living in complete ignorance

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:37

about this. This is an advanced level of oligarchy. This is

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:44

not... This takes a while to get to this point. And there are

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:51

many warning signs before you get to this point, which shows that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:54

this has been an intentional decision that has been facilitated

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:08:58

over decades. And... It did. I... The thing is, I don't really know

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:09:09

where you go from there when it doesn't seem to matter how much

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:09:14

bad press Galen Weston or Loblaws gets.

[Jessa]: 00:09:19

Well, I think that's the thing because we go after the personality and not the system.

[Jessa]: 00:09:25

And then we also design policies that are going to be aimed at you at limiting CEO

[Jessa]: 00:09:31

salaries, which, you know, is great. And we could just likely get rid of CEOs, to

[Jessa]: 00:09:36

be honest. I've seen business structures. That's ridiculous. But we don't, right? As

[Jessa]: 00:09:45

you were describing that oligarchy, and I thought of it too, as I was seeing in

[Jessa]: 00:09:50

the many ways Loblaws has diversified its profits. Made me think of the movie Wall-E.

[Jessa]: 00:09:57

You know, that's where you know, the branding is everywhere. There's no doubt about

[Jessa]: 00:10:03

it. By and large, it owns everything. The banks,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:08

I can hear

[Jessa]: 00:10:08

the grocery

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:08

the jingle.

[Jessa]: 00:10:09

stores. I mean, was that not a cautionary tale for us? I mean, the planet ended up a

[Jessa]: 00:10:15

whole bunch of garbage with only rich folks being able to... orbit in space until

[Jessa]: 00:10:20

it's inhabitable again. But yeah, it didn't go well.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:29

Yeah, I feel like that's not even like I also immediately think

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:33

of the Lorax as another example. And I feel like, you know, all these

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:40

my generation, I guess we were kids. Well, when these movies

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:45

were come up and I do feel like it had an influence, but it

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:48

seems that. There's just the disconnect is connecting those stories

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:10:55

to the real life examples because. There's, we become so good

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:00

at blaming the wrong people for this. And the thing is, as you mentioned,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:06

it's that continuation of attempting to blame individuals as opposed

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:10

to realizing that this is baked into the very system itself.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:14

This is how capitalism needs to function because there is a limited

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:17

amount of money that you can gouge from non-essential goods and

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:22

services because eventually people will just stop spending money

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:26

on them because they're non-essential. And capitalism demands that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:32

constant growth, which means inevitably those corporations that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:38

are most successful at the moment and are no longer making money

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:41

from those non-essential goods and services will immediately start to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:45

attempt to privatize and profit as much as they can off of the things

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:49

we need. And that's just what Loblaws is doing here. It's nothing

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:52

special. There's nothing different about them. This is the way

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:11:55

that capitalism functions. This is inevitably how it will always out.

[Jessa]: 00:12:04

Yeah, no, we spend a lot of time here shitting on Loblaws, but you made the point

[Jessa]: 00:12:08

earlier before we started recording that, you know, they're not alone in this.

[Jessa]: 00:12:13

In the food game and in the real estate game. I think, you know, even the existence

[Jessa]: 00:12:20

of REITs, the treatment of land and shelter as investments and the rise of- these

[Jessa]: 00:12:31

institutions is so problematic, right, at a time where really we need to be decommodifying

[Jessa]: 00:12:38

housing, framing it as a human right. And meanwhile, there are the wealthiest amongst

[Jessa]: 00:12:46

us that are just gathering up properties, scooping them up, building them, turning their

[Jessa]: 00:12:52

profits into more profits, and all of it means an increased cost of living for

[Jessa]: 00:12:58

us. nothing of this is done with any kind of advancement in mind, which is what

[Jessa]: 00:13:03

people always go on about capitalism being the engine for innovation and making

[Jessa]: 00:13:12

our lives easier. When the fuck is that happening?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:15

And they also, they like to talk about choice, right? That capitalism

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:19

creates choice because of competition. It's like, what the fuck are

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:22

you talking about? There's no competition whatsoever. Like, although

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:27

you go look at, so we're looking at grocery stores, but you start

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:31

looking at food brands, right? And there's like eight companies that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:34

are like every single brand that you would recognize when you go

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:38

to a grocery store. Eight companies own like everything. Like I

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:44

think of like Nestle and Kellogg and so I guess some of the big

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:48

ones, right? But they own everything. Right. And it's that illusion

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:53

of competition, that illusion of choice that is baked into the very

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:13:56

foundation of every single thing in capitalism. It's, I, it's that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:00

duopoly. It's that, you know, as long as we're debating between

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:04

who likes what you like better, Coke or Pepsi, you don't realize

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:07

that you're the, you're actually being played for a fool. into

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:11

making you think that you have a choice because you get to choose

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:15

between Coke and Pepsi.

[Jessa]: 00:14:17

Absolutely. And, like, don't get me wrong, those folks compete against each other

[Jessa]: 00:14:22

for our dollar, you know, in a really playful way in the marketing sphere. But do

[Jessa]: 00:14:28

not think for a second that they don't unite behind closed doors and set bread prices.

[Jessa]: 00:14:38

Or conspire with one another to pressure, you know, folks like Dream Un- Dream- I don't

[Jessa]: 00:14:47

want to get that wrong. Dream Unlimited, not to cave to a rent strike, right? We heard

[Jessa]: 00:14:52

that the landlord lobbyists were kind of united on that front, so.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:14:57

Lots of ruling class solidarity is what they have. They know that,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:03

they know who they are. They know that if they're competing against

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:09

each other and ripping each other apart, that they all stand to lose

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:12

from it.

[Jessa]: 00:15:13

Absolutely. They know they're in a class war. Too many of us do not. Um.

[Jessa]: 00:15:23

One thing that President's Choice, La Blas, hopefully, I say this, but I could

[Jessa]: 00:15:30

be wrong, don't have game in, is public transit. Did you like my segue?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:40

That works. I don't even know if it's true though, if they might.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:15:43

Hehehehe.

[Jessa]: 00:15:45

Well, I thought Bruno was joking and so now I don't know. I'm not even going to

[Jessa]: 00:15:48

look at that because I have enough things to be upset about. But, you know, I

[Jessa]: 00:15:53

grew up in Scarborough for most of my life and seeing the debacle that's been

[Jessa]: 00:16:02

surrounding the Scarborough RT. Can you help us get caught up to speed, Santiago?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:09

Well, essentially what happened was the Scarborough, I still

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:16

not sure if it's LRT or RT, but he said it's RT, so I'm gonna

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:20

go with that. One of the trains derailed, I believe it was, when

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:28

was that?

[Jessa]: 00:16:29

Oh yeah, that's a good call.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:33

I feel like I should know.

[Jessa]: 00:16:35

that article in the notes. Hold on.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:38

I'm just gonna say a few days ago, derailed a few days ago and

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:42

five people were injured. Now, this line was already supposed

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:48

to be shut down in the coming months. But it reminded me once

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:16:54

again of the absurd divestment in public transit that Scarborough

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:01

has experienced. I mean, we're talking about a borough of 600,000

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:06

people, which is bigger than most cities in North America. And

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:11

they have one of the most underserved public transit networks

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:16

that I have ever seen anywhere.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:23

when we were talking about the wait time increases on the TTC, the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:30

vast majority of the routes that we're seeing above five minute

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:33

wait time increases were bus routes in Scarborough. The way they

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:40

treat Scarborough when it comes to public transit is frankly,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:46

it's just malicious. I mean, this is Scarborough is a predominantly

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:52

visible minority community, working class community. It is not

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:17:57

a place of wealth, which is why it seems to be that it doesn't

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:18:01

matter that it's 600,000 people. They will never get the service

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:18:07

they deserve.

[Jessa]: 00:18:09

I just want to give folks perhaps outside of Toronto a little bit of perspective. Scarborough

[Jessa]: 00:18:14

takes up the entire east end of the City of Toronto. It's massive. It goes north

[Jessa]: 00:18:20

to south the entire length of the city I suppose. And the Scarborough RT was light

[Jessa]: 00:18:29

rail above ground and it was the only way to really get to the subway system. Either

[Jessa]: 00:18:35

that or you're essentially taking an east west bus. all the way to Yonge Street,

[Jessa]: 00:18:40

which would take hours, does take hours. I've had to do that to Finch station many times.

[Jessa]: 00:18:46

So this is the only fast way to get to the subways, which essentially run right

[Jessa]: 00:18:52

down the middle of the city in the south end, for the most part. That's where

[Jessa]: 00:18:57

most folks are going. And now all of these people, you're talking about seven, over

[Jessa]: 00:19:02

17,000 people a day, weekday. are going to be shuttled on buses. And even though this

[Jessa]: 00:19:12

probably spells the very end of the RT. that was already scheduled. That was always

[Jessa]: 00:19:20

the only plan for at least seven plus years is to bus all of those people on shuttle

[Jessa]: 00:19:28

buses. You know, albeit Olivia has promised to build a dedicated bus lane, that's

[Jessa]: 00:19:35

17, over 17,000 people alone on this busway that the money is not even earmarked

[Jessa]: 00:19:44

for at this point. So in the meantime, those folks are pooched.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:19:52

and a reminder of how much worse it is with once again all the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:19:56

wait time increases on all the other bus routes in

[Jessa]: 00:19:59

that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:00

Scarborough.

[Jessa]: 00:20:00

already exist, right?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:01

Yeah, the ones

[Jessa]: 00:20:02

Yeah.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:02

that already exist are the ones that the city decided were the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:05

ones that would most make sense to increase their wait times even

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:10

though once again we knew that the light rail was scheduled to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:16

be decommissioned in the coming months. There was no real plan

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:22

to deal with this. And this goes beyond, I think that this is

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:27

an issue that goes beyond car-centric design, in my opinion, because

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:31

it's not like Scarborough is designed in a way that also makes driving

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:37

the most logical thing either. For me, like, this

[Jessa]: 00:20:42

There's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:42

is simply...

[Jessa]: 00:20:43

plenty of parking in Skirrmer, I'll tell you that. You don't have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:45

This...

[Jessa]: 00:20:45

to pay for it either.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:46

Yeah, no, this is simply this is simply the I don't even want

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:52

to say nor ignoring of a underserved community. This is like the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:20:57

active, active malice against an underserved community. This is beyond

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:02

indifference. And there's no real. There's no real urgency for

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:08

anybody, it seems, to talk about this. This wasn't a big issue

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:12

during the recent mayoral election, either of the recent mayoral

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:16

elections. It's

[Jessa]: 00:21:19

No.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:21:19

not like s-

[Jessa]: 00:21:20

So I go back to see, you know, what is Olivia's position on this? We're going to

[Jessa]: 00:21:25

talk about it. What can people look forward to it? And yeah, she's promised $60

[Jessa]: 00:21:29

million to build this busway. Other than that, you couldn't find hardly anything

[Jessa]: 00:21:37

on transit at all. Even there was an article by The Rabble, which normally does

[Jessa]: 00:21:43

really great stuff. And the headline labeled Olivia as a champion for transit and

[Jessa]: 00:21:48

housing. But the word transit didn't appear again in their article.

[Jessa]: 00:21:58

Oh, I thought you were fact checking me.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:07

Sorry about that.

[Jessa]: 00:22:08

It's okay. And in a city that has so many people that are relying on transit, it

[Jessa]: 00:22:15

was astonishing that it wasn't front and center. But I think that speaks to what

[Jessa]: 00:22:18

you just said. It's not just the Scarborough debacle, but it's transit underfunding in general

[Jessa]: 00:22:23

that is spitting on poor folks. Like,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:26

I wanna

[Jessa]: 00:22:26

ideally,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:26

met.

[Jessa]: 00:22:27

it's built for all people, but it's not.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:29

I want to mention when it comes to article, I attempted to write

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:32

an article about this actually about the cut cuts, the wait

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:38

time increases specifically affecting Scarborough. And my professor seemed

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:43

utterly disinterested in the idea of me writing that story.

[Jessa]: 00:22:47

You see from Lee's side.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:50

He worked for the Toronto Sun as a crime reporter. So you know,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:54

I'm not sure where he's from. But anyways, point being. that like,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:22:59

yeah, I remember, okay, I'm not writing this, somebody will write

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:02

this. And I remember waiting to see that article be written because

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:05

it was on my radar. And I'm just a journalism student. So if it's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:10

on my radar, somebody who is actually working in the industry should

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:14

definitely have noticed and nobody was writing articles about this

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:17

and it was absolutely infuriating. And like I said, this is a massive

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:22

community. Bigger than, like if you were to start naming major,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:26

I remember I saw a list earlier this morning about major cities

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:30

in North America that Scarborough is bigger than, and it is,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:34

it's shocking. I don't have the list, but there is many recognizable

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:38

cities that have major sports teams that are like big cities

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:43

that are,

[Jessa]: 00:23:44

It's not the burbs that people think it is.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:46

no, it's a massive community. And the fact that nobody even cares

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:53

to talk about this. And once again, like, and bringing it back

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:23:56

to, you know, economy and stuff like that, there's no logic in isolating

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:02

the people of Scarborough from the rest of the GTA from the core of Toronto.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:09

There's no logic in this. It doesn't make.

[Jessa]: 00:24:13

Well, let's be fair, they've already been priced out of the core. Most city attractions,

[Jessa]: 00:24:17

anything to do, most families can't afford to do them. And they will travel. I've

[Jessa]: 00:24:26

had to, living in Scarborough, take two hour bus rides to school and back to work

[Jessa]: 00:24:31

and back. You just have to do it. You don't have a choice. And so it's just the suffering

[Jessa]: 00:24:36

they don't care about. You

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:38

And

[Jessa]: 00:24:38

know,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:38

also

[Jessa]: 00:24:38

you still

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:39

just

[Jessa]: 00:24:39

have to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:39

the

[Jessa]: 00:24:39

get

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:39

impact

[Jessa]: 00:24:39

where you gotta go.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:40

and the impacts of that time. I mean, that's how many hours a

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:45

week does that become of time? That is that is wasted on a commute.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:52

I mean, this is this is not logical Scarborough is a borough of

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:24:58

Toronto that has no access to Toronto. No easy access to Toronto.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:05

And You know, like you start talking to people who, because I

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:11

live in downtown and a lot of people here, they just never been

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:16

out to Scarborough. They don't even, they never been to Scarborough

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:19

in their life. They don't even know what Scarborough looks like,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:21

you know. People have been to the other boroughs, you know,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:24

everyone knows North York. Everyone's been to East York. Everyone's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:28

been at some point had to go to Etobicoke for something or another.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:33

But people have never been to Scarborough. And

[Jessa]: 00:25:36

It's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:36

that's

[Jessa]: 00:25:36

a nice

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:36

strange.

[Jessa]: 00:25:36

place they should visit.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:38

I mean, the food is

[Jessa]: 00:25:39

It

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:25:39

incredible.

[Jessa]: 00:25:39

can't be all that bad, I grew up there. But I think we're being unfair to Chloe Brown

[Jessa]: 00:25:45

because I think if there's anybody during the election that was focused on Scarborough

[Jessa]: 00:25:51

and the needs of the communities usually ignored, Chloe Brown consistently brought up

[Jessa]: 00:25:57

solutions for that area. So I'm sure if she was listening, she'd be like, I did,

[Jessa]: 00:26:01

I did, no one would listen. So, and. TTC writers, we had them on a few months ago.

[Jessa]: 00:26:09

They have been advocating for solutions in Scarborough for some time now, so. going

[Jessa]: 00:26:16

to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:26:16

Oh yeah.

[Jessa]: 00:26:17

summarize them. Hold on, I'm going to need a nerd.

[Jessa]: 00:26:23

So obviously the long-term goals that TTC riders and advocacy group for public transit

[Jessa]: 00:26:31

have become a lot more urgent with the derailment and the possible end of the

[Jessa]: 00:26:35

Scarborough RT, but they've got some great ideas that I think you will like if you

[Jessa]: 00:26:39

haven't taken a look already. So, you know, they've got eight years at least, because

[Jessa]: 00:26:44

let's be honest, if Metrolinx is involved, we're probably talking about 15 years until

[Jessa]: 00:26:48

that subway's built, or whatever they end up building. And... They want to decommission

[Jessa]: 00:26:55

it and turn that into the busway with a green public space, you know, for pedestrians

[Jessa]: 00:27:02

and cyclists, free transfers. In the meantime, for folks going between Go Transit

[Jessa]: 00:27:10

or the other service providers so that people can get around in Scarborough in more

[Jessa]: 00:27:14

ways than having to rely on that busway. The Eglinton LRT, the Eglinton East LRT is

[Jessa]: 00:27:21

another big issue with Toronto Transit. It's just sitting there not being used, which

[Jessa]: 00:27:27

again is stopping people from the East end of the city getting into the core. And

[Jessa]: 00:27:33

it's just sitting there driving my dad crazy in this neighborhood. You still can't

[Jessa]: 00:27:37

get in and out. Um, they also want to preserve that corridor long-term for that

[Jessa]: 00:27:43

same kind of public space that we were talking about. So another shout out to TTC

[Jessa]: 00:27:47

writers for having so many solutions. I hope they go far with the current mayor.

[Jessa]: 00:27:52

I mean, they're great ideas, but still, but still it still means no matter what for

[Jessa]: 00:27:57

the next minimum eight years, a whole lot of people in Scarborough will only have

[Jessa]: 00:28:03

a bus to get them into the core of the city. Like that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:07

It's...

[Jessa]: 00:28:07

is unacceptable that if you read through the story of this. fucking Scarborough expansion,

[Jessa]: 00:28:14

it's such a soap opera of political debates gone wrong and indecision and flip-flops.

[Jessa]: 00:28:22

I'm not gonna take the space to go into the exact history of it, folks can look

[Jessa]: 00:28:26

it up for themselves, but it's just an example of political inaction. And even

[Jessa]: 00:28:31

the counselors in Scarborough did are such a poor job of advocating for the folks

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:35

Oh,

[Jessa]: 00:28:36

there.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:36

yeah

[Jessa]: 00:28:36

They were just like mad they couldn't have. hard rail instead of light rail and didn't

[Jessa]: 00:28:40

want to be treated as second class citizens. It's like such a horrible perspective

[Jessa]: 00:28:44

to come at it from.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:46

And it's also just to be clear, like this is not the norm across

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:51

the world in industrialized nations. I mean, we're talking about a transit

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:28:57

system in Toronto that is truly, truly behind. Every single major

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:04

city across the world that is even a lot of major cities in non-industrialized

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:10

countries are more Developed than Toronto's and I can't help but

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:15

think of places of high density cities in Asia that have incredibly

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:22

Developed public transit them somehow managed to move Millions

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:28

more people than what we have in Toronto and Toronto once again

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:31

is one of the it's either third fourth I forget I think it's third

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:35

no it's the fourth largest city in North America fourth largest

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:40

city in North America we're not talking about a city and it's a major

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:45

financial hub. We're not talking about a city that doesn't have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:49

access to the kind of population slash funding that would generally

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:29:57

be allocated to a city of this caliber to be able to develop

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:01

something. I mean, for fuck's sake, go look at like the, just

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:04

the subway map of any fucking European city and then look at

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:08

Toronto's and it's embarrassing, even compared to Montreal and

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:11

it's embarrassing. This is truly what should be. We are to a certain

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:20

extent an international laughing stock for this kind of thing, but

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:23

we don't feel that. We think that this is the norm because we have

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:30:26

no idea what's going on anywhere else. And we act like it's so difficult.

[Jessa]: 00:30:33

I'm just laughing because you stole that line like right out of my mouth. Like

[Jessa]: 00:30:36

I was thinking there's nothing more embarrassing than comparing Toronto subway

[Jessa]: 00:30:40

map when you go abroad. Do it for fun while you're listening. Um, in that comparison,

[Jessa]: 00:30:48

though, it made me think of something I wanted to share back to what Herman said

[Jessa]: 00:30:53

in our TTC writers episode, when he stressed the need for transit to be for everyone.

[Jessa]: 00:31:01

Now, right now it's mostly geared towards poor folks who absolutely need it for the most

[Jessa]: 00:31:08

part and that's why it's largely underfunded because nobody advocates for the poor, right?

[Jessa]: 00:31:12

We know that. But in the same way... Stop. Herman says this in the episode mostly

[Jessa]: 00:31:22

because we're talking about climate change and transit as a solution higher ridership

[Jessa]: 00:31:28

would have on lowering our emissions. But I think he was also getting at something

[Jessa]: 00:31:35

else that I didn't really get until now, not fully, until I started chirping about

[Jessa]: 00:31:40

private schools. And the reason I don't think private schools should exist is because

[Jessa]: 00:31:45

everyone's kids should be in the public school system. Yes, there's problems with the

[Jessa]: 00:31:50

public school system and how it's structured and it needs work and it needs a lot more funding.

[Jessa]: 00:31:56

However, the existence of charter schools and private schools and religious schools allows

[Jessa]: 00:32:02

rich folks to not give a shit. Literally, our ministers of education in Toronto and Ontario

[Jessa]: 00:32:08

have never even gone to public school. They don't know what it needs, they don't care.

[Jessa]: 00:32:15

And so it's lost. The same would exist if we designed our cities to public transit

[Jessa]: 00:32:23

and not to cars because you would have to take public transit, right? Making people

[Jessa]: 00:32:29

have to take public transit would incentivize politicians and rich folks alike to have good,

[Jessa]: 00:32:37

well-funded transit, clean transit, safe transit, fast transit. But they don't,

[Jessa]: 00:32:43

it's just for the poor folks right now. Right? And not even. Because every time

[Jessa]: 00:32:50

you see root cancellations, they're again, in the most underserviced areas. It's

[Jessa]: 00:32:54

like a cost benefit analysis rather than a how else are those people gonna get

[Jessa]: 00:32:58

where they need to go analysis and realizing it's a public service and not something

[Jessa]: 00:33:04

that is always gonna be cost effective. Because you know, John Tory adds $53 million

[Jessa]: 00:33:11

to the transit budget. And you're like, oh, yay, like that is a significant increase.

[Jessa]: 00:33:16

And then you find out, well, that also went to hiring 50 more security constables.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:24

Yeah, no.

[Jessa]: 00:33:26

And he promised to make most of it up with fare increases. So on the backs of

[Jessa]: 00:33:31

the people who can't afford to drive, they're gonna pay for more constables on the

[Jessa]: 00:33:35

line.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:36

And a reminder that we already pay within the top five or ten.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:41

fares, I think it's top five for monthly fares, top 10 for single

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:47

rider fares of any transit system anywhere in the world. Like

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:50

we're paying already way, way more. And you look at the countries

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:33:56

that are paying more than us and they all have incredibly elaborate

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:00

complex transit systems that can get you anywhere you want to go in

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:04

the city. We don't. So we're paying all of these incredibly high

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:10

fares for nothing. We get nothing in return. We get a broken system

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:16

that barely meets the needs of many Torontonians and doesn't

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:21

meet the needs of so many more Torontonians. And not even to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:25

mention all the people who are not even Torontonians, but who work

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:29

in Toronto and how difficult it is just to get into the city and

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:34

how talking about how expensive go transit is right like you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:39

want to take the go train into city I know people were paying

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:42

$20 a day for those round trips in and out of the city from the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:48

suburbs where and then they still have to drive their car to

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:52

get to the station because their suburbs don't have adequate transit

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:34:56

systems to take them to the go train station and if they do well

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:01

guess what you're paying an additional oftentimes I see it Right

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:08

because you're paying four dollars four dollars for that take it

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:14

in a different area. And same thing, like ask anybody who lives

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:17

in Mississauga who works in Toronto. I know so many people who

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:21

live in Mississauga and who work in Toronto, who are paying incredibly

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:24

high prices every single day. And on top of that, losing so much

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:28

of their time. And of course, every now and then I hear people

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:32

say, things about how employers should be compensating for that

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:37

time. And I strongly agree. And of course they don't. But...

[Jessa]: 00:35:42

In fairness, that should be done in their taxes, right? Their under-taxed

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:46

Yeah,

[Jessa]: 00:35:47

businesses.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:47

no, but that's the point. It's just like We're getting a really

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:52

shitty deal here yet. We think we live in this Ad this advanced

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:35:59

city. It's like no, please I beg people to go learn what the rest

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:36:03

of the world looks like Like so many of these issues only exist

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:36:07

out of out of ignorance Because we don't know what the rest of the

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:36:12

world looks like

[Jessa]: 00:36:14

One of the things that has plagued Canadian cities as well is really poor leadership.

[Jessa]: 00:36:20

And to give folks an understanding of how Canadian politics work in that regard,

[Jessa]: 00:36:28

municipalities have very limited ways of raising funds. So it's no wonder they raise

[Jessa]: 00:36:34

fares every time they have to increase funding for the transit system. They only really

[Jessa]: 00:36:38

have property taxes and... building permits, very limited revenue resources. It's

[Jessa]: 00:36:44

the provinces and the federal government that take in most of our taxes and should be

[Jessa]: 00:36:48

putting it back into transit. But not to worry, here's my sarcasm tone for those

[Jessa]: 00:36:55

who might not be able to recognize it. Justin Trudeau has announced billions in

[Jessa]: 00:37:01

permanent public transit funding. So for example, knowing the busway. may cost 60

[Jessa]: 00:37:10

million dollars. That's just Scarborough's busway to solve one little problem for eight

[Jessa]: 00:37:14

years. 60 million. So what do you think federal government funding for permanent transit,

[Jessa]: 00:37:24

sorry, so what do you think the yearly allotment from the federal government should

[Jessa]: 00:37:28

be for all of Canada when we're talking, when they say permanent public transit funding?

[Jessa]: 00:37:35

Santiago, do you want to give it a guess? Like what should it be?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:37:42

Honestly, don't have a number, but I am of the belief that it should

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:37:50

be whatever is necessary.

[Jessa]: 00:37:54

whatever it takes.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:37:56

Because any investment in public transit will pay for itself and its

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:03

benefits to society. So it's not the type of thing where we should

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:07

be. even concerning ourselves with how much it costs. That money

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:11

will make itself back in not being lost in other ways. So it's

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:17

like, if it costs, you could give me a hundred billion, say,

[Jessa]: 00:38:22

Well, I'm only

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:22

to develop

[Jessa]: 00:38:22

going to give

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:23

public.

[Jessa]: 00:38:23

you three.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:23

Yeah.

[Jessa]: 00:38:24

You get three from the feds and that's got to be split across Canada. $3 billion a

[Jessa]: 00:38:32

year. And they were very excited about this announcement.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:38:38

Of course they were.

[Jessa]: 00:38:39

So clearly the federal government cannot help Toronto with its transit funding woes.

[Jessa]: 00:38:46

They won't help Olivia with her housing issue either. I mean that's a story for another

[Jessa]: 00:38:50

day, but the feds love to pretend they're doing a lot of help and they really do nothing

[Jessa]: 00:38:55

at all, but that's okay. They're never one to be outdone by the provincial government.

[Jessa]: 00:39:02

Doug Ford standing there like he wasn't on council during all of this and saying, oh

[Jessa]: 00:39:07

well, the province could have fixed this years ago. Council could have fixed this

[Jessa]: 00:39:11

years ago. We have no idea if he's going to fix this. My guess is no.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:18

I'd strongly believe no. And it's funny because it's like, if you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:23

did fix this, then you'd have a bunch of people supporting you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:27

and you'd guarantee power for your party or whatever, you know?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:33

But apparently like they're that secure in their control that they

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:39:39

don't have to worry about 600,000 people. That doesn't matter.

[Jessa]: 00:39:48

for folks who want to, a call to act, wait, start again.

[Jessa]: 00:39:59

For folks that want a way to push back in all of this, we do highly recommend TTC

[Jessa]: 00:40:05

writers. You'll remember they were on a few episodes ago, but they have a petition

[Jessa]: 00:40:11

specifically aimed at the issues in Scarborough, but they do so much more. So again,

[Jessa]: 00:40:18

we will link you to them in our show notes.

[Jessa]: 00:40:25

I can't end like that.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:40:29

Let me think. Sorry, I've never been good at endings.

[Jessa]: 00:40:41

I think we put it back on Olivia. Maybe just.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:40:47

Yeah, maybe just like end. Olivia Chow has the ability to make,

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:40:53

pressuring Olivia Chow, yeah.

[Jessa]: 00:40:58

Yeah, so in the end, it's going to come down to what Olivia Chow's willing to

[Jessa]: 00:41:01

do on this portfolio. The jury's still out on that. So that tells us that the work

[Jessa]: 00:41:07

of TTC writers and other advocates still need to be holding people's feet to the

[Jessa]: 00:41:12

fire because there is no solution for Scarborough right now. But this is just a microcosm

[Jessa]: 00:41:17

of the transit woes in Toronto and in Canada in general. Is that good?

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:41:28

Yeah. It'll do. It'll do.

[Jessa]: 00:41:31

Okay.

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:41:32

I feel like you're allowed to kind of end roughly, because, you

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:41:35

know, if people stuck around long enough, I don't think they're too

[Santiago Helou Quintero]: 00:41:39

concerned.