Join us for this episode of Elements of Community as host Lucas Root chats with Charlie Deist about his awesome natural movement meetup group near Berkeley, California. For over a decade, they've been gathering to rediscover the joy of playfully moving their bodies outdoors. Charlie shares how their gatherings are all about play, letting adults tap into their inner child's freedom.

They dive into how challenges, conversations, and shared adventures have formed a fantastic, diverse tribe. Charlie reveals how their flexible yet consistent approach keeps their bonds strong.

Ready for some magic? Listen in as they navigate sensitive topics with an open mind, and explore how finishing work to play outside has become their defining ritual. 

Discover how play can be the glue that builds a tight-knit community, one embodied practice at a time.

[00:00:20] Lucas Root: And I was like, well, the same way anybody would meet somebody from San Francisco. We met through my friend in L. A. L.A.

[00:00:32] Lucas Root: It is the nature of the Twitterverse. It's actually a really good, yeah, that's right, it's X verse now. It's a really good example of or illustration of how we can use the really extraordinary power of long distance connections to create more powerful, local, deep in person connection.

[00:01:09] Lucas Root: Wait, you mean it's not the scourge of the earth?

[00:01:23] Lucas Root: There you go. Drink responsibly. Yes.

[00:01:29] Lucas Root: I love it. You and I have had a really amazing opportunity to bond over a lot of things. We've bonded over our opinions on AI. We've bonded over our opinions on food. We've bonded over our opinions on movement. And I've enjoyed every piece of it. And I look forward to more.

[00:01:52] Charlie Deist: Yeah, sure. And I feel like whenever I try to introduce myself, it comes out differently and I never know what's going to come out of my [00:02:00] mouth. But in this context, I guess I'd start with the fact that I'm a Californian and a Northern Californian by birth. I was born within a 15 mile radius of where I am now in Berkeley.

[00:02:26] Lucas Root: The people here like to bubble.

[00:02:38] Charlie Deist: And what I love about Berkeley is the eclecticism. It's like, I found so many different kinds of people since being here. And each of those people has contributed to who I am. I picked up sailing after college, which has become a big part of who I am sailing on the bay. And there's a whole subculture of the sailors in my world.

[00:03:14] Lucas Root: There is "A" in ideology, the natural movement ideology.

[00:03:40] Charlie Deist: We organize the 50 mile march through this movement group every year. So we walk 50 miles in a day and that's kind of, questionably beneficial stress. Some people might say that it tilts over into into the non beneficial stress, but you have to find that balance. That's what the idea of hormetic stress is all about.

[00:04:09] Lucas Root: Yeah. Now, wouldn't putting sunscreen on your skin also be a hormetic stressor?

[00:04:39] Charlie Deist: So in that case, maybe there's a hormetic dose. I don't think sunscreen works that way in reverse though. So I feel like it's one of these things that it's more, it's an accumulated stressor, it's more like a chronic stressor in that it, you know, bioaccumulates in your tissues.

[00:05:14] Lucas Root: Interesting note. I have had sunburns, but not really bad ones since I stopped wearing sunscreen.

[00:05:24] Lucas Root: Yep, that anecdata, it perfectly stated.

[00:05:28] Lucas Root: But I had really bad sunburns when I used to wear sunscreen.

[00:05:37] Lucas Root: Seed oils, greens, beans.

[00:05:42] Lucas Root: MSG, cut back on alcohol. Yeah. All that.

[00:06:03] Lucas Root: Yeah. That's, yep. There's a thing there.

[00:06:18] Lucas Root: That correctly prescribed.

[00:06:25] Lucas Root: It's important to know, and people don't talk about this, but correctly prescribed iatrogenic deaths.

[00:06:33] Charlie Deist: Yep.

[00:06:43] Charlie Deist: No. And it's sort of an abbreviated version, but yeah, that never has come out quite like that. Sometimes I talk about. What do I talk about? I talk about my strange bout of mono, which led me down the path of health and fitness. In college, I [00:07:00] was struggling for a long period with just chronic fatigue types and symptoms.

[00:07:16] Lucas Root: your life

[00:07:51] Charlie Deist: It's like, well, if it works when you're chronically feeling low energy. Could we expand this to become [00:08:00] chronically high energy? Like, could we keep increasing the stress a little bit push it, you know, past the point where most people would stop. And so that's kind of informed a lot of my diet and exercise The whole mindset that I have around it, things from intermittent fasting, the cold exposure to endurance training, although I think there are limits to it, you know, you pass a certain point, there are diminishing returns and especially after this year's 50 mile march, I feel like I really did kind of cross the threshold and into the territory where it's like, all right, you know what, I'm going to step this back a little bit and see if I can find more energy by exerting myself a little less.

[00:08:44] Charlie Deist: Differently, yeah, there's a sweet spot and I call it like, it's the groove you get into the groove where you're just pushing hard enough to without overextending yourself but pushing yourself just hard enough to make the [00:09:00] gradual improvement that's sustainable over the long term.

[00:09:11] Charlie Deist: Well, my community here in Berkley is mostly centered around the natural movement meet up group and this started back in 2011. My friend and Co founder of the meetup group Chip Fernandez he actually, he's the true founder because he put up the meetup page way back when this was right around the time that I was graduating from college.

[00:09:56] Charlie Deist: And so, then I found Irwan LaCour's video, the workout, the world [00:10:00] forgot. And it was like, yes, this is exactly what I'm looking for, you know, free.

[00:10:10] Charlie Deist: Yeah, I think that was when that video got big and when Move Nat landed on a lot of people's radars. So Move Nat is short for natural movement or movement in nature appealed to me as this, like recovering the lost paleolithic way of exercising, but it's beyond exercising. It takes something that we've compartmentalized and tried to stick in a box, and allows it the space to breathe.

[00:11:04] Charlie Deist: But it really wasn't until COVID, so 2020 that the group really coalesced and came together as a tribe.

[00:11:32] Charlie Deist: One, this is a sort of safe space for kind of talking about some of the surrounding craziness that was going on and that we were going to keep meeting outdoors. Even maybe there were, we took a couple of weeks off when everyone didn't know what was happening, but after a little while we were kind of reading the tea leaves and saying, okay, vitamin D seems to be a preventative factor, you know, quality time.

[00:11:57] Charlie Deist: Always has been right. It's [00:12:00] quality movement, nutritious movement. These are foundations of health. And if we're going to stay healthy throughout this time, boost our immune systems, you know, we're going to do it together. And so then the people that found us, there was kind of this.

[00:12:50] Lucas Root: Oh, that's nice. Movement pot lock.

[00:12:55] Charlie Deist: Actually the friend that introduced us Case Bradford came up with that wording in the [00:13:00] podcast that I did with him. So, you know, it comes full circle.

[00:13:08] Charlie Deist: Yeah that's my community. Those are my closest friends. We meet every Saturday morning at the Marina and usually we meet a couple of times during the week. We've been doing that pretty consistently on Tuesdays at Berkeley's campus. If anyone listening is in the East Bay wants to come out and check it out Saturday mornings, Berkeley Marina.

[00:13:39] Lucas Root: Yep. I also, I strongly recommend, so the people who are listening and want to show up definitely do. I've been to a few. I tend to have podcast recordings on Saturday mornings, so I also tend to not be able to show up, but.

[00:13:55] Lucas Root: When I can, it's a delight.

[00:14:04] Lucas Root: Yeah. Speaking of, why didn't you choose Saturday morning for this recording? No, I'm just kidding.

[00:14:33] Lucas Root: It's too hard.

[00:14:36] Lucas Root: It's too hard.

[00:14:51] Lucas Root: Yeah. Nice. Tell me about how the elements of community are really showing up [00:15:00] in your community.

[00:15:39] Charlie Deist: And that became our groups go to our sort of default greeting. Nowadays, you know, you get that thing where, you know, when you go in for someone and you're not quite sure, is this a handshake? Is it a fist bump? Is it a hug? COVID really screwed that one up too, because people were afraid of shaking hands and so now

[00:15:56] Charlie Deist: As well, right, and hugging but you never know, like, or is it going to be [00:16:00] kind of a half hug with a shoulder bump and a pat on the back, or a lot of times we just, you know, might go for the hug, but but that handshake did give us a bit of a sense of an identity. And it was a ritual. It was part of our language.

[00:16:44] Charlie Deist: But the principle that shows up in all kinds of movements, but where you're moving the opposite arm with the opposite leg. So, you know, the right arm tends to move with the left leg. If you're crawling, you bring your left knee up to the left elbow, kind of moving contralaterally where the right arm [00:17:00] and the left leg are moving forward at the same time.

[00:17:24] Charlie Deist: It's not just about the aesthetics of going to the gym to get bigger muscles. It's saying, there are actually principles of natural human movement, and we've lost those because one, maybe no one ever taught us, but maybe we never really needed to be taught. We probably, at some point in our life were very good moving naturally. But through years and years of just sedentary lifestyles, sitting in these desks that conform us to odd positions, wearing shoes that compress our feet into these unnatural shapes.

[00:18:11] Lucas Root: Yep. And where appropriate, I'm 100% barefoot.

[00:18:16] Lucas Root: I love it. It feels great. You know, it's funny. I actually came into Vibram five finger shoes through a dare.

[00:18:26] Lucas Root: Yeah I grew up in Northern Vermont and as a child, I was just barefoot all the time, like all the time. There was really no reason to wear any shoes cause you know, out in the backwoods of Northern Vermont, the only thing you have to worry about stepping in that could hurt you is you know, blackberry bushes.

[00:18:47] Charlie Deist: syringes.

[00:19:05] Lucas Root: The rest of your life, you can just live barefoot. And then like everybody else, I went to school. I went to college. I moved to New York city. I guess not everybody moved to New York city, but you did.

[00:19:20] Lucas Root: Yeah. And when you're in New York city, you wear shoes

[00:19:25] Lucas Root: Like there's all sorts of stuff you can step in there.

[00:19:50] Lucas Root: Here you might get all sorts of fun stuff from animal scat in your feet.

[00:19:56] Lucas Root: That's another thing I don't want on my feet.

[00:20:00] Lucas Root: I habituated to shoes like everybody else that lives in big cities and and completely forgot their barefoot way of life. Like, I had moved on from it and I saw somebody wearing five finger shoes and I was so in the headspace of being a New Yorker.

[00:20:36] Lucas Root: Like, look at that. She was like, that's it. I don't know what it was. Maybe I had been particularly judgmental that day. And she was like, you're going to learn a lesson right now. This is true. So she dragged me to a shoe store nearby that had them. And she was like, go try them on. And it was one of those shoe stores that has a treadmill.

[00:21:14] Lucas Root: And I was disabled for the next four days, but not bone problems. It was all muscle. Like I was so habituated to shoes and my muscles were not used to working in that way. And I could not stop grinning, even when I was, like, hobbling my ass around the house, barely able to stand up, I was so filled with joy.

[00:21:36] Charlie Deist: Yeah, I remember going a little more gradually than that, but I definitely had a few sessions with Chip incidentally, where afterwards, the other thing I remember is I would end the move net sessions, just feeling like I needed to take a nap because I assume what was happening was some sort of.

[00:22:14] Lucas Root: The second time, and the third time.

[00:22:29] Charlie Deist: So you first start off you're incompetent and you don't even know that you're incompetent. You don't know how to move. You don't know how to crawl, and you're not even aware that's a thing or that it's a problem. Then you realize there's this other way of doing it. And you are conscious of your incompetence. When you try to do it, it feels very awkward, you have to really think about it.

[00:23:02] Charlie Deist: And I like to be in that place of conscious incompetence. It's tiring, but it's it's like the Zen mind, beginners mind, you know, it's a good place to be being a beginner is it's not always a bad thing, and if we avoid that state, then we're missing out on a lot of growth. So I think this sort of, this might be a clunky segue into the purpose, but I think everyone that comes regularly to the natural movement meetup group is looking for some kind of a challenge, looking for new ways to test out their body, what they can do within the context of a supportive community, that's going to be, you know, teaching.

[00:24:12] Lucas Root: So, you've been doing this 15 years, and you haven't yet, or you rarely can't find a way to to challenge your body in a novel way.

[00:24:48] Charlie Deist: And I'd never tried that one, but didn't last for long. The bottoms of my feet are very calloused, but the tops of my feet. Are are quite sensitive. So, I only hang for about a second.

[00:25:01] Charlie Deist: Yep. There you go. Although he does it on the bar back down in LA. We won't dock him for that. It's

[00:25:09] Lucas Root: Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to send him this segment right here. Be like, you wish you were using real tree bark.

[00:25:27] Lucas Root: I'm not even sure the beaches are better down there. Warmer.

[00:25:38] Lucas Root: The people who go to, you know, pilgrimage to Big Sur every year would argue that Surfing up here is the thing too.

[00:25:50] Lucas Root: Yeah. So, Purpose, you're sort of pinning it down as novel challenge for movement.[00:26:00]

[00:26:17] Lucas Root: Yeah. That and Camaraderie.

[00:26:56] Charlie Deist: Chip's been gone for the last three weeks, but the group [00:27:00] has never skipped a beat. And in some of those weeks I was gone too, but there's always somebody who's going to show up and lead it. But the balance that we have between structure and free flow flexibility is appealing.

[00:27:29] Charlie Deist: A lot of fitness classes you go in and the instructors like they're good at sort of kicking your ass, right? Like brutalizing you into doing the hard thing. Sometimes we need that. But it's not so much our model. We might demonstrate things with an invitation to try them out, but often with a progression, if it's something that would be more challenging, like with say handstands or I've been a big fan of the pistol squat and the one arm pushup as strength exercises, but there's ways you can [00:28:00] modify that before you can do you know, even a single pistol squat. Cause there's mobility constraints for getting into that position, it's not just strength it's really the whole, but I would say, I think that the challenge and the

[00:28:16] Charlie Deist: Oh, true. For sure. For sure.

[00:28:36] Lucas Root: And how long do your muscles tolerate you holding that position?

[00:29:08] Lucas Root: You might actually get in trouble in the kid's playground. But what's cool is we have our own playground.

[00:29:17] Lucas Root: Pretty much the whole world except for that playground.

[00:29:48] Charlie Deist: And if I see something that's an obstacle to interact with, I'm going to try to interact with it, even if it makes me look like a fool. And that's where I think having the safe space, so to speak, to borrow a [00:30:00] term from the Maoists or I don't know, from the common parlance.

[00:30:19] Charlie Deist: Right. Right. Exactly.

[00:30:41] Charlie Deist: So in terms of value talking about, you know, what the bi directional exchange of value, right? We're talking about what people bring, and what they take away. When we talked about the movement potluck, I think this is one of the ways that people bring value. They bring [00:31:00] new ideas.

[00:31:27] Charlie Deist: We also have a signal thread. There's another sort of beneficial use of a social media, a chat app. And beyond that kind of sharing, it's a mutual aid network. It's a support community.

[00:32:09] Charlie Deist: So, all these things they're somewhat lacking in the modern world. We don't have a lot of these 3rd spaces where people can come together and I think Alexis to Tocqueville observed that America was unique for the strength of its civil society and the informal ties, the kind of glue of society that is outside of governmental institutions, outside of families and outside of, let's say maybe church organizing, although churches, I think in his view were maybe sort of part of the glue of civil society.

[00:33:13] Charlie Deist: I prefer the outdoor model just because it's where I feel like I'm in my element. I like that. It doesn't have any official structure or real like rules. But that I was also.

[00:33:36] Charlie Deist: Right. Right. And that happens when, like, if someone comes and there are regulars, even who have pretty severe limitations in the ways that they can move, and we try to be aware of that, but without saying, you know, everyone has to go the level of their movement. And there's one person in the group in particular, who's made a good point.

[00:34:22] Charlie Deist: And so there is a tension there where it's like someone who's not able to run, let's say, or there are any number of, you know, mobility limitations and things that can prevent, one of my favorite games is called tree tag, where at the infinity tree somebody charts a course through the tree, going over certain branches under branches.

[00:35:06] Charlie Deist: So I love that game and like, I want to play that game with people who are fast and capable of jumping over branches and jumping under branches. But we usually do that towards the end after we've done stuff that's more inclusive, the more gentle warmup flow. And usually after the first 20 minutes or so, people kind of break out into their own little separate pockets and and might be having conversations with someone who has a particular perspective that they're in need of someone might be, you know, having some kind of a chronic illness and they're talking to the herbalist or someone's whatever it might be maybe people are even having a conversation about politics.

[00:36:11] Charlie Deist: So we can kind of explore different modalities. And I think this dovetails with the next one you wanted to talk about, which is the social contract and how, yeah, we're not united in any kind of religious outlook or political ideology.

[00:36:39] Lucas Root: I've not moved up yet, so I missed those.

[00:36:58] Charlie Deist: I don't want to [00:37:00] necessarily get into those unless you do, because I, you know, I could go off and, you know, get on my high horse and talk about why to me it's important that at an outdoor meetup, for example, like we would encourage people to, you know, actually, I shouldn't say this, people would show up wearing COVID and that was okay, but almost always by the end, the mask would be off.

[00:37:42] Charlie Deist: I saw a headline this week about some sort of, you know, new studies showing the not noxious chemicals that people end up inhaling through their mask. And so, you know, that's just one sort of example of, we didn't.

[00:37:58] Charlie Deist: You what.

[00:38:06] Charlie Deist: Well, I've had this conversation with some people and I've tried to have it with compassion and, ultimately, you know, I sort of feel sorry for people that feel this burden on themselves to continue to do this. And around here, you know, Northern California, Berkeley, I don't know what like

[00:38:25] Charlie Deist: Yes.

[00:38:27] Charlie Deist: Now we're, but it's coming back to some extent, just when we thought it was gone, just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in. And so that was, you know, that is sort of a core value. And part of our social contract is like, no, one's going to come to our meetup and demand that other people wear masks.

[00:38:57] Lucas Root: Yeah.[00:39:00]

[00:39:04] Lucas Root: Particularly those weird natural movement guys. They're the craziest.

[00:39:16] Lucas Root: Now there's a statement.

[00:39:21] Lucas Root: Right?

[00:39:43] Charlie Deist: But now I've got another one and this one this one can apply to

[00:39:48] Charlie Deist: Buying a quarter beef. The one I was going to say was in a time of universal pasteurization making homemade raw milk, raw ice, raw milk, homemade ice cream is a [00:40:00] revolutionary act.

[00:40:04] Charlie Deist: No.

[00:40:45] Charlie Deist: Tell someone they're wrong. I would say, as a matter of tactics and persuasion, I've never found that to be a very effective method. I think things like social proof, you know, forging [00:41:00] consensus, that does most of the work. So we actually had our first tribal council a few months ago, complete with you know, some bongo drums and much pomp and circumstance.

[00:41:32] Charlie Deist: And so that conversation unfolded. Very civilly, there were a few people who spoke with a lot of conviction saying, this is what I think I propose this and then using the, you know, Robert's rules of order or whatever, you know, someone else would second the motion and before long, it was like, all right, do we even need to put this to a vote?

[00:42:22] Charlie Deist: And in one case there was someone who came to a function at my house, a potluck event. And I don't want to, you know, I don't think she's going to listen to this podcast. So I guess I can tell you, and you could choose to edit this out later, but you know, she showed up wearing this big honking mask.

[00:43:00] Charlie Deist: And I get that people have different reasons for thinking that it's more important for them to wear a mask, like in this case, she.

[00:43:12] Charlie Deist: Maybe. I don't know. And to be honest, I don't want to harp on this story because it makes me look a little bit petty, but that was a case where I felt like, this we call it the social contract, call it just sort of manners are my preference for how people who are coming into my house, which was different than just the meetups in general.

[00:44:07] Charlie Deist: And so that was a case where I said basically like, I think you're wrong and I would prefer if you didn't, but on the whole, if somebody wants to go through life with that cognitive dissonance and bring it to the move net group, we're probably not going to pass a rule about it yet again, you never know. We'll take it one day at a time.

[00:44:40] Charlie Deist: Yeah. And that's probably a healthier outlook, to be honest. I think, you know, I really do try not to concern myself with the decisions that other people make so long as they're not hurting other people. And you know, I also have to remain humble to the possibility that I'm just wrong[00:45:00] that, you know, she is protecting herself and her immunocompromised client.

[00:45:28] Charlie Deist: And then from that social proof, it tends to tip people who are on the edge over into your camp. It's like, I'll give an example in politics.

[00:45:41] Charlie Deist: Yes. Let's do it.

[00:45:44] Charlie Deist: I'll make it somewhat generic, but you know, every primary season, there are some people who are early on, maybe there's a lot of hype around them, but oftentimes it really doesn't take much for their campaign to completely fizzle out.

[00:46:16] Charlie Deist: Nobody wants to vote for the guy that's running 2% in the polls. So yeah, I mean, I could get specific with stuff that's happening right now in real time, but the principle is more important than the specific personalities. And this also.

[00:46:36] Charlie Deist: Oh yeah. Where he could have been more, much more popular.

[00:46:41] Charlie Deist: Right. But it, yeah, it became this thing of, Oh yeah. You know, a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush or something like that.

[00:46:51] Charlie Deist: Right, right. Yep. Right. Whichever side you are on. That's a good point. Yeah. Well, the, and the other thing about social [00:47:00] proof is there's this video of the guy dancing in the park and then one other person starts to dance along

[00:47:07] Charlie Deist: long, And everybody's dancing. And I often refer to that in thinking about the movement group, because, you know, one person crawling around on all four is looks like a crazy person, but two people, now you've got a movement. Now you've got a real something happening. You've got a society of people.

[00:47:41] Charlie Deist: We just enjoyed hanging out. But from that a whole group of really amazing people who I love deeply have have come out and defined the group in a way that I never could have seen coming, but it's beautiful.

[00:48:19] Charlie Deist: Probably Twitter at ChDeist, although I've been inactive on sub stack, which is just my name.com CharlieDeist.Com and my email address and all that is easy enough to find, but yeah, connect on Twitter.

[00:48:35] Charlie Deist: Excuse me X, Twitter X. Okay.

[00:48:42] Charlie Deist: Oh, and I feel like, I don't know, I'm sure someday I'll look back on it and be like, oh man, it used to be called Twitter, but for now, it's still definitely Twitter in my mind.

[00:49:01] Charlie Deist: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Right. Maybe someday we'll look back and be like, it used to be called the internet. Now it's just everything whole world, the internet of things is taken over. So it's like, there's no dividing line between the internet and reality anymore. That's a scary thought. Or is it?

[00:49:31] Charlie Deist: Yeah. Yeah. Life comes at you pretty fast.

[00:49:43] Charlie Deist: Right, right. The application I want to see, and I don't know that I'll be an early adopter for this, but like, I'd like to be able to walk down the street and see all the archived historical photos of what that place used to look like. I think that would be a very cool [00:50:00] augmented reality application.

[00:50:07] Charlie Deist: Right? Yeah. The future is bright.

[00:50:21] Charlie Deist: Give me the third question and then we'll come back to the second one. Unless the order is important.

[00:50:28] Charlie Deist: Okay. Well.

[00:50:33] Charlie Deist: I would say, what kinds of movements have been tickling my funny bone lately or challenging me, and.

[00:50:42] Charlie Deist: Why that? Well, because it makes me think and it makes me want to be more intentional and maybe incorporate some new practices.

[00:51:04] Charlie Deist: Huh, I see sort of the meta layer beneath the challenge that's an excellent point. And that might be, I've been wanting to do sort of a small, you know, short interview series with everyone to, to find out what they say, what keeps them coming back. And I suspect I might hear something like that from people.

[00:51:44] Lucas Root: Yep. You said it. I asked why that? Right. Why is that the question? And and the question was, which movements have been tickling your fancy recently? Right.

[00:51:56] Lucas Root: I said, why that? And you said, because it makes me think and it makes me want to [00:52:00] be more intentional.

[00:52:10] Lucas Root: You said you did, you said that. Sometimes the darndest things, right?

[00:52:18] Lucas Root: So which movements?

[00:52:50] Lucas Root: You know.

[00:52:52] Lucas Root: When I switched to barefoot, when I switched back to barefoot as an adult, the thing that really turned me on the most, like, brought me home [00:53:00] grinning like a kid was quoting you. It makes me think and it makes me have to be intentional. Because when you take away the padding, your interaction with the ground becomes core. Like, it's no longer just running to to fatigue your big muscles, right? You must be intentionally focused on your interaction between the foot and the ground.

[00:53:46] Charlie Deist: And that's now immediately underfoot and they're making these adjustments. And I have no idea what that.

[00:54:13] Charlie Deist: True. That's true. But I'm finding in running in

[00:54:16] Lucas Root: Which is delightful.

[00:54:18] Lucas Root: It's delightful.

[00:54:38] Charlie Deist: I've been trying sort of nasal breathing techniques and things that limit my breath a little bit. So yeah I'm going to see how far I can take that, and the other one is going into the water, ideally down in the bay somewhere, natural body of water, and going about maybe waist deep or a little deeper, and then playing around with really [00:55:00] explosive jumps.

[00:55:06] Lucas Root: it's non standard resistance.

[00:55:27] Lucas Root: I mean, you'd be fine now, but you had to start somewhere.

[00:55:34] Lucas Root: Yeah. I love it. Third question. We took our time with that second question, didn't we? Third question is do you have any closing thoughts?

[00:56:08] Lucas Root: Got five dots.

[00:56:16] Charlie Deist: And actually, I need to update this because there's Wednesday mornings at Ohlone Park, and Albany bulb has sort of slipped off as a regular but we used to do a Muay Thai session at Albany bulb. And I keep that in my office as a reminder that, well, and I also have a sticker on my computer that says, finish your work and go outside and kind of, you know.

[00:56:40] Charlie Deist: A lot of times I get into this mode where I start to think that my work is the most important thing that defines me.

[00:57:14] Charlie Deist: And I think this is a beautiful model of community for it. Anyone to kind of get to know their habitat better and find the people who will explore that habitat with you and explore what it means to be an embodied human being.

[00:57:34] Charlie Deist: That's right. Finish your work and go outside.

[00:57:41] Charlie Deist: Oh, thank you, Luke.