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Murdered by America: The Tragic Story of Roger Fortson
Episode 144 • 13th June 2024 • TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective • TonyTidbit ™
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Episode Audio Link: https://podcast.ablackexec.com/episode/Murdered by America: The Tragic Story of Roger Fortson

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In this episode of A Black Executive Perspective Podcast hosts Tony Tidbit and Chris

P. Reed discusses the tragic death of Roger Fortson, a 23-year-old Black Airman

fatally shot by police. Joined by Brad Bowling, president of Code M Magazine,

they delve into the systemic issues of police brutality and racial profiling.

The conversation highlights the profound loss of Fortson, the impact on his

family and community, and the need for societal change. They also emphasize the

importance of empathy training for police officers and call for community

action and legislative changes to prevent future tragedies.

▶︎ In This Episode

  1. 00:00: Introduction: The Tragic Case of Roger Fortson
  2. 00:46: Welcome to the Black Executive Perspective Podcast
  3. 01:32: Discussing the Article 'Murdered by America'
  4. 03:19: Brad Bowling's Perspective on Roger Fortson's Story
  5. 04:34: The Systemic Issues of Police Brutality
  6. 09:19: The Impact on Roger Fortson's Family
  7. 14:31: The Broader Implications of Racial Profiling
  8. 26:33: The Mental Health Toll on Black Families
  9. 30:50: The Incident: From Noise Complaint to Tragedy
  10. 31:34: Fear and Racial Bias in Policing
  11. 32:31: Public Reaction and Media Coverage
  12. 35:04: The Impact on the Community
  13. 37:02: Roger Fortson's Legacy and Potential
  14. 39:47: Calls for Change and Empathy Training
  15. 42:33: The Role of Media and Journalists
  16. 50:52 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

🔗 Resources

Links and resources mentioned in this episode:

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Transcripts

Tony Tidbit:

America murdered Roger Fortson.

2

:

He was murdered by Congress who refuses to

pass any law that spots police brutality

3

:

or any hate crime against black people.

4

:

He was murdered by white Americans

who look the other way while

5

:

countless crimes and racism are

committed against blacks daily.

6

:

And he was murdered by black Americans

who refused to vote and sit on the

7

:

sidelines while black men are gunned

down daily across this country.

8

:

We'll discuss race and how it plays

a factor and how we didn't even talk

9

:

about this topic because we were afraid.

10

:

BEP Narrator: A Black

Executive Perspective.

11

:

Tony Tidbit: Welcome to a Black Executive

Perspective podcast, a safe space where

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:

we discuss all matters related to race,

especially race in corporate America.

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:

I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

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:

Chris P. Reed: And I'm

your co-host, Chris p Reed.

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Tony Tidbit: So again, we wanna thank

our partners here at the University of

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New Haven, WNHU 88.7 on the Richter Dial.

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Thank you for your partnership, allowing

a Black executive Perspective podcast to

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come in and talk about a serious topic.

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Chris P. Reed: And also, we don't

wanna forget to shout out our

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:

partners at Code M Magazine, whose

mission is saving the black family

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:

by first saving the black man.

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Check 'em out@codemmagazine.com.

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That's code M two M magazine.com.

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Tony Tidbit: That's right,

definitely check them out.

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:

And speaking of that, we're going

to talk about an article that Code

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:

M magazine wrote for their June,

uh, uh, monthly, uh, publication.

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Um, and that, that article, it's

about Roger Fortson, a young

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Black airman who was fatally shot

by the police at his own home.

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We're joined by Brad Bowling, who's

the president of Code M magazine,

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who's here to talk about his compelling

article, Murdered by America.

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We'll We will discuss the devastating

escalation from a simple noise

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:

complaint to a fatal misunderstanding.

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We'll examine the systemic issues

of police brutality and racial

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profiling that contributed to this

tragedy and also play, pay homage

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to Roger's life and inspirations.

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Brad Bowling, president

of Code M magazine.

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Welcome to a Black Executive

Perspective podcast, my brother.

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Brad Bowling: Thank you, Tony and Chris.

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It's a pleasure to be here.

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Tony Tidbit: Well, thank you, my man.

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And listen, I got to

give you a lot of credit.

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Um, the article that you wrote

murdered in America about Roger

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Fordson was, you know, very, um, you

know, really bothered me, um, in terms

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of what happened to that young man.

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How it transpired, but we want to dive

in today in terms of your perspective,

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how you wrote it, and we want to get

a better understanding in terms of not

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just what happened, but also who he was.

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And then more importantly, you know, how

do we move forward as a society to stop

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these tragic events from moving forward?

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All right.

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So are you ready to talk about it?

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Brad Bowling: Let's go.

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Tony Tidbit: All right, buddy.

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Let's talk about it.

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Chris P. Reed: So, so Brad,

the 1 thing I wanted to get

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across was how this all began.

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Like, the reason that we're

here is obviously for tragic.

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This tragic incident occurred and

it brought us here to speak on it.

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So give me your perspective

on how the incident unfolded.

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And give us a little bit of Roger's story.

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Brad Bowling: So basically Roger Fortson,

uh, is a 23 year, was a 23 year old us,

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uh, air servicemen who arrived home,

uh, 30 minutes prior to the incident.

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He was FaceTime and his girlfriend, when

he heard a knock at the door, the knock

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at the door was a, a sheriff officer who

is responding to a noise complaint and

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ended up going to the wrong apartment.

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And as he knocked on the door,

As Roger was alerted to this, he

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went, looked through the peephole.

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He didn't see anyone.

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He went back, sat down,

heard a second knock.

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And out of abundance of precaution, he

grabbed a service weapon to make sure

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he wasn't being robbed or, you know,

um, assaulted, answered the door with

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the service weapon down at his side.

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As he opened the door before

the sheriff said anything to

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him, he shot him six times.

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ultimately killing him.

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He died at the hospital.

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Uh, and so since this is just

another example of black men under

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attack in America, I wanted to

write the article because we need

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to revisit the conversation on, is

it safe to call the police anymore?

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You know, how do we respond to the police?

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I'll just keep it at that.

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I'll keep it at that.

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Tony Tidbit: You know, let me, I want

to read, uh, the beginning of your

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piece because you say something that,

um, for a person who may not have

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known the story, but read your article,

they would probably be like, wow.

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All right.

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So let me, let me, let me just read this.

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You says in your article, and I

quote, America murdered Roger Fortson.

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He was murdered by Congress who refuses to

pass any law that spots police brutality

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:

or any hate crime against black people.

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:

He was murdered by white Americans

who look the other way while

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:

countless crimes and racism are

committed against blacks daily.

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:

And he was murdered by black Americans

who refuse to vote And sit on the

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:

sidelines while black men are gunned

down daily across this country.

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:

So tell us a little bit in terms

of the thought process when you

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:

said he was murdered by America

and you pretty much included You

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know, every aspect of American life.

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Brad Bowling: Yes.

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You know, Tony, Roger

Fortson was an American hero.

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He was the kind of son that

every father could be a proud of.

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Whether you were white, black,

Asian, uh, Mexican, he, he was the

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Patriot we need right now in America.

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You know, he loved his country

and we need young men like him.

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Uh, because he, he, he was on a path

to become whatever he wanted to be.

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His life was cut short.

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By circumstances beyond his

control, but at the same time.

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Were they so look at Congress when the

Asians were being harassed in the country?

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We passed an anti asian bill right away.

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Tony Tidbit: Mm

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Brad Bowling: hmm But we

don't do that for blacks.

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So Congress is slow to act.

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We've had police profiling in

this country forever But yet we do

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not have any laws in the books to

protect us from police profiling.

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There is no protocol that police

need to follow when dealing with us.

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Um, if you take a look at white people,

you know, if you can, if white people

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continue to turn and look the other way,

acting like, Hey, since this doesn't

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bother me, I don't have to be involved.

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If you're not upset because

this American hero was gunned

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down, your child might be next.

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And then what are you

doing to support this?

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And when I say support it, I

mean, what are you doing to

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change the behavior of society?

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And then finally, I'm mad at our

brothers and sisters who don't go

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vote, you know, who aren't joining the

urban league, who aren't joining the,

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uh, you know, uh, NAACP, who aren't.

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You know, going to different

organizational meetings to make sure that

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their voice is heard, or at least their

vote is counted in the right direction.

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So then we can have the

power to affect law change.

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So, yes, everybody's a culprit.

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Chris P. Reed: I think it, it comes off as

incendiary for you to, you know, uh, Blame

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or, or, or put the onus on America itself.

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And I think that was a powerful statement.

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I'm sure it was by design.

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My question to you is one of the things

that's come to light for us as, as black

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males, for sure, is that a lot of this

stuff has been going on for a long time.

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It's this footage, this video evidence

that is allowing for us to have more

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insight and more people to see kind of

the lives that we've lived for so long.

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So what do you say about

the body cam footage?

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In this and how things weren't done

immediate, you know, based off of

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the evidence that was provided.

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And then also the people that are

affected closely, which were his

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folks, his parents, his friends,

loved ones, and things of that nature.

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What was their reaction

to some of these things?

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How hard is that?

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Yeah.

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Brad Bowling: So, you know, the video

evidence is, is condemning, right?

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You can't unsee it.

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Once you see it, it was just as bad

as watching George Floyd get murdered.

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Tony Tidbit: Right?

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Brad Bowling: Um, and so when you

watch the young man, open the door.

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There was no conversation.

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There was no de escalation.

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There was no, there was nothing.

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As soon as he saw him, he shot him.

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As soon as he saw the gun in his hand.

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Now we all understand that police

need to come home at night.

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We respect police officers.

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I have police officers in my family.

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My uncle's a detective.

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I have family who serve in the military.

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I have respect for the police.

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But you know, the one thing that

Mrs Fortson said as we interviewed

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her, you know, we can no longer

tell our Children that the police

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are here to protect and serve.

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That's just not true for black people.

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So we can no longer lie to our children

that they can expect a positive

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encounter if they do go to the police.

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You know, if we have a child with

a mental issue and they're acting

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out, you know, we can no longer call

the police to calm that child down

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because our sons are being murdered.

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you know, when they're having an episode

or they're having an attack or they're

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having some type of anxiety, anxiety

attack, you know, we need an alternative

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to calling the police because our kids are

being gunned down unjustly without cause.

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Uh, and then the repercussions

sometimes are not fair for the people

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who are, who are harming our kids.

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So, you know, his family was devastated.

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Roger Fortson was the

third born out of five.

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He was the pillar of his community.

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He graduated high school with honors.

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And so, you know, he represented

black America well, and we,

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you know, we lost, you know, a

representation of us, the best of us.

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And so, you know, I

have a 25 year old son.

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I have a 19 year old son.

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They're both bright young man.

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They speak well.

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They're Roger Fortson.

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Tony Tidbit: Right.

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Brad Bowling: So if Roger, who did

everything right, can't get any

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respect, what do I tell my two sons?

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Tony Tidbit: Right, right.

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You know, one of the things, and I

love, and again, if I'm talking to

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our audience, if you have not read

this article, you need to go to Code

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M Magazine and read it because, um,

As Chris stated, very powerful, um,

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as Brad has been talking about, really

diving into the, the issues, but not

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just the issues, the fear, alright?

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In terms of what happens to,

to African American males

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when it comes to the police.

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But you wrote this, and I

wanna go to this, and you

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just spoke to it a little bit.

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And I quote, Black fathers in America

are starting to prepare for the fact that

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it's not a matter of if, but a matter of

time when they or their sons will have to

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deal with some type of police profiling.

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Black men used to be able to

consider that if they went to school.

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Picked the right path of a career, spoke

proper English, and lived a certain

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lifestyle that they would somehow avoid

the typical police black man interaction

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that is seen played out all repeatedly.

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You stated just a few minutes

ago, Fortson was different.

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He graduated from high school

and he fit that profile.

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But he still was gunned down in his home.

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Talk a little bit about that, my brother.

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Brad Bowling: You know, it's, it's

devastating, uh, because again, it's

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not a matter of if it's a matter of

when our children, our young men, and

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even us, you know, I know we're, we're

all above 40, but it's not a matter

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of if it's a matter of when, and what

you have to pray at this point is that

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your son will survive the encounter.

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Now that is a horrible proposition to

have to live with is that you can't

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do anything to protect your child.

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Your child could be

doing everything right.

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He could be in the right community.

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Robert Fortune wasn't in the hood.

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He was in, he was in a nice apartment

building paying 18, 2, 000 a month.

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You know, the, the, the apartment

building he lived in was 80 percent

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military guys, 80 percent military.

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Why didn't the sheriff?

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Take that into account when he went

to the house, why didn't he have some

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respect and some patience and show some

grace as he went because nine times out

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of 10, he probably was going to call in

a service member, active service member.

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So he walked to the apartment

building knowing it's 80 percent

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because that's where he lives.

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That's what he serves.

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He knew that apartment building

was service members, but yet he

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still went, didn't deescalate.

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Didn't have a conversation.

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So I don't know what to do at this point.

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So the article was written out of

frustration, Chris, you are corrected.

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It is in it.

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I need to get people off the fence.

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The goal is to get people off the

fence, to have a discussion about

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this, to figure out what can we do,

because this is everybody's problem.

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And that's why I wrote it from the

perspective that America murdered

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him, because this is America.

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This is an American problem.

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This is not a white, it's not a black,

it's an everybody everyday problem.

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And we've got to figure out a

way because we're losing people.

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And, you know, I'm not, I don't want

to sit here and Say that the other

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people were less human because they were

gunned down because their backgrounds

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are not as exemplary as Rogers, right?

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I'm not saying that.

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So, you know, it's, it's just maddening

because this young man had a future.

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He was doing everything right.

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Chris P. Reed: Let me dig in and take this

in a, in a slightly different direction

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in the regard of what you just said.

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And I know that Tony is a veteran and I

know my grandfather fought in, in World

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War II and one of the things that we

hear time and time again is when people

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got back from over there, black folks.

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Got back from over there

fighting for this country.

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They were still treated poorly.

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The V you know, people in Vietnam

war, all this other kind of stuff.

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Is there a situation?

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Because I thought we had got to the

point where, uh, thank you for your

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service and saluting our troops.

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And, and that type of respect could be,

uh, cascaded onto us, or we could absorb

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some of that as black, you know, men

and women, but I'm the guy in Virginia

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that got pulled over and harassed.

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Uh, and so why is the military?

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Is the military involved in this after

all, or is there anything to do with,

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cause you said just earlier, he would

have to, uh, approach somebody in the

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service that he didn't have the respect

for that because of that person's skin

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color, all the respect was alleviated.

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From him actually being a, a, a server

to our country, why is that not something

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that's even brought up at this point?

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Brad Bowling: Well, you know, this is the,

this is the reason why we're having this

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conversation, uh, because unfortunately,

the color of his skin superseded

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anything that he did the young man that

got pulled over for having temporary

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tags that the officer couldn't see.

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So this, the case you're talking about

in Virginia where the, the, the guy was

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in uniform coming home from work, in

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Chris P. Reed: uniform, in uniform,

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Brad Bowling: pulled over.

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They couldn't see the temporary tag

in his SUV because of the tenant

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windows in the back, but they

did not handle that with grace.

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There was no de escalation.

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And so the same thing with

Roger, he didn't see uniform.

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Obviously he was not in uniform.

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Uh, but before he found out the

character of this man, He shot him dead.

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And the problem that I have with

that is that that could have

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been my 19 year old who goes to

Mount Union and plays lacrosse.

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It could have been my 25 year old, you

know, who went to school and is working

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and he's, he's just a decent young man

and he's at the wrong place with the

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wrong officer with the wrong attitude.

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And now he's dead.

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And so, you know, I can't, I I

can, I can't protect my sons.

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They're out there driving, they're

living, they got girlfriends, they have

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jobs, they want to go to dinner, they

want to do everything a typical American

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expects to be able to do without harm.

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And we no longer can guarantee that.

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So we need to have a divisive

conversation about this.

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We need to get angry about this.

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There's no protest that can help this.

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There's no break in the mirror wall

or glass that can that can do this.

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We must get out and vote.

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We got to join some organizations.

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We got to get in our politicians

ears and we have to demand change.

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Chris P. Reed: So, so the thing about it

is before we go, we have a clip that we

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want to play, but before we go to that

clip, it's devastating for you to say.

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There's no such thing as being on base.

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There's no such thing as being safe.

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I think that what Tony was saying

earlier is you check off these boxes

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and you do everything the right way.

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You're affiliated with the

nation being a military officer.

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You go to school, you

do this, you do that.

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So if there's not a place for us, cause

that's what it sounds like underlying

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is what you're saying is no matter

what you do, where you go, how you

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do it, there is no assured safety.

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There is no base for us to rest

on and kind of, you know, just

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relax and lower our shoulders.

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We always have to be vigilant.

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We always have to be extra perceptive.

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And that's a miserable,

miserable experience to have had.

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Uh, Noel, can you know, producer,

can we play the clip that we

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have, uh, For the first clip,

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Tony Tidbit (2): deputy who shot

and killed Senior Airman Roger

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Fortson has been terminated.

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The

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ABC News Anchor: Oglosa County Sheriff's

Office revealing just an hour ago that

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Deputy Eddie Duran was fired following the

completion of an internal investigation.

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The investigation determined

Durand's use of deadly force was

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not objectively reasonable and

therefore violated agency policy.

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This is separate from the Florida

Department of Law Enforcement's

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investigation, which will determine if

Durand should be criminally charged.

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On May 3rd, Durand was directed to

Fortson's apartment by people at the

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complex who reported a disturbance.

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Durand knocked three times.

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When Fortson answered the door,

he was holding a gun by his side.

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The sheriff's office says Duran

confirmed that senior airman Fortson

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did not physically resist him, and the

investigation concluded that Fortson

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did not point the gun at the deputy.

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Sheriff Eric Aydin said in a

release, this tragic incident

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should have never occurred.

340

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The objective facts do not

support the use of deadly force

341

:

as an appropriate response to Mr.

342

:

Fortson's actions.

343

:

Mr.

344

:

Fortson did not commit

any crime by all accounts.

345

:

He was an exceptional

airman and individual.

346

:

Chris P. Reed: Let me ask you a

question, Brad, before I told Tony,

347

:

you got a lot in this, but let me

ask you this question because this

348

:

is where insult has met injury.

349

:

You know, how is it not automatic

that, and I want to say, Obvious, um,

350

:

so objectively reasonable that that

the force was not exactly reasonable

351

:

was deemed and it was in violation,

direct violation of the policies.

352

:

How does that not automatically equate

to charges and how is this person

353

:

allowed to exercise their freedoms

after it has been determined that

354

:

these things have been violated?

355

:

So, this person is still walking

around and, and, and being able

356

:

to contemplate different avenues

and things of that nature.

357

:

Why isn't there something put

in place for officers as you

358

:

said, is that an act of Congress?

359

:

Is that a local thing?

360

:

What is it that has to happen

for these people to have to be?

361

:

Held accountable for some of these

actions that are devastating to

362

:

lives and families and communities.

363

:

Brad Bowling: That's a loaded question.

364

:

Okay, and so we could almost have

a whole nother podcast about how

365

:

police were created what police

represented through Jim Crow.

366

:

post slavery, right?

367

:

So we all, we all understand the

role that the police had of returning

368

:

slaves back to the slave owner

to:

369

:

Today, the police have a very,

very strong organization.

370

:

They lobby very heavily.

371

:

They protect their own, uh, and so

they want to move with an abundance

372

:

of caution before they decide to

terminate and then prosecute a

373

:

police officer for doing his job.

374

:

Now, I have nothing but the,

but respect for the police.

375

:

Tony Tidbit: Correct.

376

:

Brad Bowling: I understand

their role and how hard it is.

377

:

You know, police officers die

in the line of duty on a daily

378

:

basis in the United States.

379

:

We understand that.

380

:

So we're not.

381

:

Sitting here is saying that,

you know, we don't appreciate.

382

:

The sacrifice that police

officers make on a daily basis.

383

:

What we're, what we're saying though,

is that We need our police officers

384

:

to view us as they do everyone else.

385

:

You know, there are several examples

of white people walking down the street

386

:

with guns who were never murdered.

387

:

White people who have committed

crimes, murders, mass shootings, who

388

:

were taken to get food afterwards.

389

:

You know, white people who survived the

encounter and are serving time in jail.

390

:

White people who've blown

up entire buildings, uh, who

391

:

are sitting in jail today.

392

:

And so I would have rather he listen,

and I'm not saying that Robert

393

:

George Fortson deserved anything,

but I would have rather him been

394

:

tased and has survived the encounter

where the officer could apologize.

395

:

Robert Fortson himself could have said,

I forgive you because I'm a patriot

396

:

because I understand the role you play

because I one day want to be an officer

397

:

because this is what I'm going for to.

398

:

I'm a brother of yours, but he was

not given that opportunity because

399

:

because the police officer went in with.

400

:

A preconception of what black

people are, and he killed him.

401

:

And so the question is, who are

we hiring as police officers?

402

:

Tony Tidbit: Well, here's the thing

though, and I'm backing up a little bit

403

:

guys, because, um, you know, obviously

this, you know, makes us all upset.

404

:

Okay?

405

:

Like you said, it could happen to anybody.

406

:

But here's the underlying issue.

407

:

Okay?

408

:

The underlying, and if you look

at the clip, Okay, the body cam,

409

:

the full body cam footage, okay?

410

:

Um,

411

:

and I'm going to say it just like it is.

412

:

A lot of white people are afraid of black

people, okay, especially black males.

413

:

That's what this was about.

414

:

This wasn't about all the stuff you

just got done saying, Brad, in terms

415

:

of procedure and stuff to that nature.

416

:

This was about as soon as

he saw him, okay, they'll,

417

:

he didn't come with the gun.

418

:

Like, the gun was already in a holster,

so as soon as he saw them, he pulled

419

:

the holster out and started shooting,

because of his fear of black men.

420

:

That's the issue here, okay?

421

:

And now, to your point, and

what you wrote in the article.

422

:

You can take away some of the, the

narratives that, you know, popular,

423

:

uh, you know, certain individuals

will say, Oh, he was a criminal or he

424

:

was a drug dealer, or he was trying

to, you know, come up with reasons

425

:

why it was okay to, to kill somebody.

426

:

He didn't, and let's be fair to

the majority of people who face

427

:

police brutality, don't fall into

that, that, that segment either.

428

:

But here's a, here's a a, a a, a,

a, a military, you know, person

429

:

that has an impeccable record.

430

:

Here's an individual that had did

nothing wrong, no criminal record,

431

:

whatever case may be, he didn't

even get a chance to say boo.

432

:

So the issue is, is that the

fear and this, this issue of

433

:

fear has gone back for centuries.

434

:

And if we really unpack it.

435

:

And, and that's why I love

what you wrote in the article,

436

:

and I just read that excerpt.

437

:

It doesn't matter what position you have.

438

:

You can be a judge.

439

:

You can be a major league,

uh, a sports person.

440

:

You could be a doctor.

441

:

You can be anything.

442

:

It doesn't matter how well you speak.

443

:

It doesn't matter.

444

:

What neighborhood you live in

because those things didn't

445

:

matter with Roger Fortson, okay?

446

:

But the bottom line is what matters

is is when somebody sees your skin And

447

:

they're already, like you said a minute

ago, have preconceived notions that this

448

:

black person is a threat to me, regardless

of where he lives at, what he does from

449

:

a daily occupation, and then I need to

attack him immediately for my own life.

450

:

That's the issue, and we, you don't hear

a lot of people talking about that, right?

451

:

And that's not something to be fair.

452

:

And I love to hear your point on

this, that legislation can right away.

453

:

All right, because that is a human fear

that's been built up for centuries.

454

:

And, and although Unfortunately,

he lost his life, but in all walks

455

:

of life, we deal with that fear in

corporate America, in every industry,

456

:

in terms of when white people perceive

black people as a certain thing.

457

:

Let me hear your thoughts on that.

458

:

Brad Bowling: Yeah, I mean, it's tragic.

459

:

And you know, it's a part

of the American fabric.

460

:

There's not enough D.

461

:

E.

462

:

I.

463

:

To fix it.

464

:

We really need to get to

the infrastructure of how

465

:

police officers are trained.

466

:

I, you know, they need to go through

some type of sympathy training.

467

:

I know that they live stressful

lives, but they need to have

468

:

empathy when they're out working.

469

:

And we've got to find a way To retrain

officers to view everybody as equal.

470

:

And it starts with conversations

like this, having these conversations

471

:

out in the open, demanding a change,

exposing, you know, the truth for

472

:

what it is, is where we need to start.

473

:

And so maybe he starts here and maybe

this grows into a movement where,

474

:

you know, we can affect change guys.

475

:

Because something has to happen.

476

:

Tony Tidbit: Yeah, it definitely has.

477

:

Let's go into some of the

broader aspects of this, right?

478

:

And then I want to back up, and I

want you to really talk about how

479

:

his parents are doing, and more

importantly, the person, okay?

480

:

But you said something, you wrote it,

how Black fathers or people of color,

481

:

how they deal when they see these

things, or watch them, or listen to them.

482

:

The, the, the, uh, Overall

effect that doesn't just go away.

483

:

It lasts for a long period of time.

484

:

So let's play the next clip.

485

:

And I want to hear your thoughts on this.

486

:

Video News Narrator: This isn't

the first time the public has seen

487

:

footage of the deadly use of force

against black people in California.

488

:

Black people are over represented

in police use of force incidents.

489

:

The state's Public Policy Institute,

saying they account for nearly 20 percent

490

:

of serious injuries and fatalities,

while only making up less than 6 percent

491

:

of the population, Robinson says.

492

:

In each case, he immediately

thinks of the families.

493

:

Robinson: This person is somebody's son.

494

:

This is somebody's grandson.

495

:

You know, I just go right there, you

know, and, uh, I think of how tremendous

496

:

a loss would be, um, in my family.

497

:

Tony Tidbit: So what

should think about that?

498

:

So number one, let's just be clear.

499

:

This is the state of California.

500

:

Okay.

501

:

So this is specific to California.

502

:

6 percent of the population of

the state of California is black.

503

:

However, if I remember the quote right,

20 something percent of the police

504

:

brutality that happens is against

people of color or black people,

505

:

which really doesn't make any sense.

506

:

Number two, as the brother stated,

when you see all these things, the

507

:

first thing you start thinking is,

Hey, that was somebody's brother,

508

:

that was somebody's father, that was

somebody's cousin, that was somebody's

509

:

nephew, and that could happen to

my, that could happen to my family.

510

:

So talk a little bit about the

overarching systemic issues

511

:

from a mental health standpoint.

512

:

Brad Bowling: So, you know, I talked

to his mother at length, uh, for

513

:

the interview and, you know, we

became friends throughout that.

514

:

That, that interview process and you

know, her pain runs deep, but I need

515

:

you guys to understand the ramifications

of what happened because Mrs.

516

:

Fortson lost a son.

517

:

She lost a hero.

518

:

She lost a gift.

519

:

You know, Roger was a hero to his family.

520

:

You know, we all have family

members who excel more than others

521

:

who believe more than others.

522

:

And we, and we, and we get that everybody

can't be the same, but you know, United

523

:

States government spent millions training

Roger to become the man that he was.

524

:

Look at the ripple effect

that his death has caused.

525

:

For his family who potentially have

lost thousands and thousands of

526

:

dollars, his potential wife, his

potential children, the legacy he

527

:

could have left behind for generations.

528

:

I mean, this is systemic when

you lose a person like this.

529

:

The mental toll that it

takes on you is devastating.

530

:

His mother will never

531

:

Tony Tidbit: recover the same.

532

:

Never.

533

:

Brad Bowling: He has a little sister.

534

:

If you, if you go on, you look at the

article, one of the first photos, when

535

:

you turn the page, I think it's 41 or 42.

536

:

But when you look at the photo of

him and his little sister, she is in

537

:

uniform, mimicking him, the influence

he had on his immediate family.

538

:

This little girl will never be

able to get him back to continue

539

:

to follow in his footsteps.

540

:

So what are the ramifications for her?

541

:

Does she, is her life

derailed or does she continue?

542

:

We don't know.

543

:

And so it's, it's devastating.

544

:

Gentlemen, the 40 pound backpack

that we all wear when we get up in

545

:

the morning, when we have to walk

out the door, it's real, it's real.

546

:

Black men are suffering.

547

:

We're suffering in silence.

548

:

You know, we need to communicate.

549

:

We need to honor him.

550

:

We need to reach out to each other.

551

:

Um, this, this impacted me personally,

not only because I'm a black man, but

552

:

because I have two sons that I love.

553

:

That I can't protect when they're out

driving and they're getting ice cream.

554

:

And next thing you know, I get the phone

call that they've been shot because maybe

555

:

they didn't put their hands at 10 and two.

556

:

Maybe they didn't roll down the windows.

557

:

Maybe they didn't take the key

out the ignition and turn the car.

558

:

Maybe they were so scared that they

didn't call me on speaker phone.

559

:

Uh, and, and the officers saw maybe, you

know, something on the dashboard they

560

:

thought was a weapon and now they're dead.

561

:

I can't protect my kids, gentlemen,

and I don't know what to do.

562

:

Chris P. Reed: Let me say this,

because when we talk about the

563

:

mental health aspect of this, this

went from zero to 60 really quick.

564

:

He showed up, he being the

officer, Showed up for a noise

565

:

complaint and turned into a murder.

566

:

So his heightened sense of,

uh, sensitivity shouldn't, it

567

:

shouldn't even you showed up.

568

:

It wasn't like you showed up

to shots fired or, uh, you

569

:

know, something traumatic.

570

:

Absolutely.

571

:

So you shouldn't have been on 10.

572

:

He went from zero to 80.

573

:

Or zero to a hundred.

574

:

It's

575

:

Brad Bowling: worse than that

because he heard no noise.

576

:

Tony Tidbit: But again, he should

577

:

Brad Bowling: have been

de escalating from that.

578

:

If you, I wrote in the article,

if you listen, you can hear birds

579

:

chirping as he's knocking on a door.

580

:

Tony Tidbit: I still say, and again,

I know you guys agree with this.

581

:

That just epitomizes the fear

that he had towards black people.

582

:

There's no other reason, there's nothing

else you could come up with to say

583

:

that's not accurate, unless he went

there to murder somebody, alright?

584

:

This shows flat out that the person

was, and this is not just him,

585

:

it's part of society, I hate to say

it, is that they are afraid of us.

586

:

Okay, because there's no other

reason for him to do what he did

587

:

Brad Bowling: and we can't shrink there.

588

:

There's not enough shrinking we can do.

589

:

Tony Tidbit: You can't.

590

:

That's my point here, right?

591

:

You can't.

592

:

There's no law you can write against fear.

593

:

Okay, and I'm not giving them excuses.

594

:

I'm just telling you what it is

because there's no reason this

595

:

young man should be dead today.

596

:

Okay, because he didn't do anything.

597

:

All right, so that's the only thing.

598

:

And we've seen this happen

many a time, not to this, well,

599

:

sometimes even to this level.

600

:

But this is where I want to get to.

601

:

I want to ask you two quick questions.

602

:

Number one, are you surprised that

where everybody is, you know, I don't

603

:

want to say, we're all devastated.

604

:

You don't see the, the fervor, um, around

Roger that you did around George Floyd.

605

:

Okay.

606

:

So are you surprised by that?

607

:

Brad Bowling: So the answer

to that is yes and no.

608

:

And let me kind of explain that answer.

609

:

Yes.

610

:

I'm a little surprised, but at

the same time, the mother and the

611

:

family, because Ben Crump is the,

is the attorney, his law firm is

612

:

representing, uh, the Fortson family.

613

:

They've asked for people to

be patient because he's being

614

:

supported by the U S air force.

615

:

Uh, they've come out with flying

colors to support the family.

616

:

Uh, they do not want to

have anyone else be harmed.

617

:

Uh, by protesting.

618

:

And so they've asked for the country to

be patient, uh, to, to, to reserve our

619

:

anger for a minute to see if the sheriff's

office and ultimately the prosecutor,

620

:

the prosecutor does the right thing.

621

:

And so that's why we

haven't seen anything.

622

:

And so that's why my answer is yes or no.

623

:

Yes.

624

:

I'm surprised that we didn't, but

at the same time, as I learned

625

:

more and interviewed the family,

since they asked for patients.

626

:

Uh, the country is giving them that.

627

:

Tony Tidbit: Let me, so, and I hear

that, and, and, and I, and it's great

628

:

that people respect their wishes.

629

:

So, I'm not even talking

from a protest standpoint.

630

:

I'm not talking from people, you know,

going to the streets, or, I'm just

631

:

talking in terms of story, staying out

there, and being just more prevalent.

632

:

Right?

633

:

That's what I'm talking about.

634

:

So you don't, you don't

see, let's be fair here.

635

:

This was done on what, May 3rd, okay?

636

:

Yes.

637

:

Your article came out for your June

publication, which was June 4th, alright?

638

:

I'm, and maybe it's me, but

I haven't seen a whole lot.

639

:

Follow up, I'm talking about in terms

of follow up reporting, you know, the,

640

:

until actually yesterday or the day before

yesterday when they fired the officer.

641

:

So that's what I'm saying is I haven't

seen a lot of people really talk about

642

:

this outside of the first maybe three,

four days, week, and it kind of died away.

643

:

Brad Bowling: You, you are correct.

644

:

The article has not grown the legs

that I would have hoped it would

645

:

have grown, uh, through this tragedy.

646

:

But this is the kind of conversation

we need to have about media

647

:

in America and how, how black

people are portrayed in media.

648

:

That's one of the things that, you

know, we go around the country, we do

649

:

speaking engagements talking about these,

the state of media and black media.

650

:

Um, we just simply do not have.

651

:

The representation that we

deserve, uh, from the major news

652

:

organizations that report on news.

653

:

Now you see Trump in the news on a daily

basis, but you know, Roger Fortson,

654

:

who was an American Patriot to me

who deserved more coverage than this.

655

:

He's not getting the coverage

that I would have expected.

656

:

And so we need to turn a dial up on this.

657

:

Hopefully, as this progresses and the

investigation is completed, we begin to

658

:

see more, but we definitely, you know,

we need to get to the water cooler.

659

:

We need to go to the barbershop.

660

:

We need to spread the word.

661

:

Please share the article if you can.

662

:

We need to continue to talk about this

because I guarantee you we will be

663

:

sitting here again when we talk about

the next person who got gunned down

664

:

by the police who did not deserve it.

665

:

And I'm trying to avoid that by

having this conversation now so

666

:

we can avoid that in the future.

667

:

Chris P. Reed: You said something

that affected me deeply, um, that I

668

:

hadn't thought of and I try to think

all the angles most of the time,

669

:

but you talked about the personal

impact, uh, for you having boys.

670

:

And then you talked about the assault

on the community or the possibilities

671

:

of what Roger could have provided

to his family and community.

672

:

And I think that although there may be

some sense of justice, as it relates to

673

:

him as the individual, we never recoup,

it's kind of like generational wealth.

674

:

We never recoup the, the,

the assault on the community.

675

:

The wake that it left behind, can you

speak to that a little bit as far as what

676

:

he had in store and the possibilities that

existed for this young brother and what we

677

:

all lost out on collectively as him being

our next senator, our next, you know,

678

:

uh, principal or whatever the case may

679

:

Brad Bowling: be.

680

:

Yeah.

681

:

Roger Fortson was on a trajectory.

682

:

Probably he could have become the

president of the United States.

683

:

This young man was exemplary.

684

:

I mean, he chose to go to the U.

685

:

S.

686

:

Air Force right out of high school

because he wanted to serve his country.

687

:

More importantly, he wanted to

not have to pay for college.

688

:

You know, there's a great

debate of college is worth it.

689

:

And if the fee of college after you

graduate paying 567 100 a month back

690

:

to pay for your tuition is worth it.

691

:

Roger Forth, he had the foresight

to say, you know what, I want to be

692

:

educated, but I don't want the debt.

693

:

So what can I do to educate

myself but not take on that debt?

694

:

So he went to the U.

695

:

S.

696

:

Air Force because he was

a patriot of the country.

697

:

He loved his family.

698

:

He loved himself and he loved his country.

699

:

He was going to use the GI Bill to then

go to college, get his four year degree.

700

:

He was doing it in the right way.

701

:

But the young man wanted

to become a fighter pilot.

702

:

He wanted to become one of

the most respected things

703

:

you can be in this country.

704

:

And we need to understand that

the kind of example he would

705

:

have been for so many people.

706

:

So the ripple effect of his

death is on it's untold.

707

:

We don't know what impact this young

man had or would have had on society.

708

:

We already can tell you that

his family is devastated.

709

:

His two older siblings who looked

down at him for inspiration and

710

:

his two younger siblings who

looked up to him for inspiration.

711

:

We don't, we can't tell you now what path

is, is laid out for them in the future.

712

:

You know, his mother, um,

713

:

you know, talking to her.

714

:

She's my mother.

715

:

She's your mother's

716

:

Chris P. Reed: right?

717

:

Brad Bowling: She's black.

718

:

America's mother,

719

:

Chris P. Reed: right?

720

:

Brad Bowling: Because she was raising

a superstar and she relished in the

721

:

fact that she was blessed to be able

to give birth to a man of his caliber.

722

:

So she was proud.

723

:

Chris P. Reed: Right?

724

:

Right.

725

:

Brad Bowling: And now, you know, when

I, when I talked to her, she's in pain,

726

:

you know, she said, Brad, I don't know.

727

:

People ask me, you know, how I

have the strength to continue.

728

:

She said, I'm not

operating out of strength.

729

:

I'm operating out of pain.

730

:

They stole my gift.

731

:

Tony Tidbit: Right?

732

:

Brad Bowling: Since he was four

years old, she called him her gift.

733

:

He exemplified excellence

at four gentlemen,

734

:

the woman he was supposed to marry,

the children he was supposed to have.

735

:

We don't know the ripple effect of

the economic impact of his death is

736

:

going to have in a black community.

737

:

And then the circle

around him, it's millions,

738

:

Tony Tidbit: right?

739

:

Right.

740

:

Brad Bowling: Right.

741

:

Let me ask the story.

742

:

We don't tell.

743

:

Tony Tidbit: Let me ask you this,

my friend, the way I started with my

744

:

first when, when I read your, your

excerpt in the beginning, um, I want

745

:

to get your thoughts, um, because

you said, uh, and your article is,

746

:

is titled, uh, murdered by America.

747

:

And you said Roger Fortson

was murdered by America.

748

:

He was murdered by Congress, he was

murdered by white Americans, and

749

:

he was murdered by black Americans.

750

:

Give us some, your thoughts in terms of

how these three bodies can come together.

751

:

And what solutions can we all do,

right, to be able to hopefully

752

:

not see this happen again.

753

:

Brad Bowling: So, you know, one of

the unfortunate ripple effects that

754

:

happens in the black community is

that eventually ripples into white.

755

:

If you take a look at San Diego, excuse

me, San Francisco and what's happening

756

:

out there, you're starting to see crime

permeate into areas where it shouldn't be.

757

:

Right.

758

:

So we need white America and

black America to come together.

759

:

Because we have more in common

now than we've ever had.

760

:

Tony Tidbit: It's so true.

761

:

Brad Bowling: This is

not about money anymore.

762

:

This is about quality of life.

763

:

Right.

764

:

And so we need to come together

to demand change from our Congress

765

:

to then treat everybody equal.

766

:

Um, So hold on,

767

:

Tony Tidbit: Brad.

768

:

When you say demand change from my, our

Congress specifically, what do you mean?

769

:

Brad Bowling: I'm talking about

the fact that we need to enact,

770

:

uh, police profiling laws.

771

:

We need to hold our officers

at a higher standard.

772

:

But let me tell you something.

773

:

We also need to work with our police

officers to give them empathy training.

774

:

I personally believe

that DEI is not enough.

775

:

When you have empathy for

your fellow human, you.

776

:

You perform better when we see somebody

in a wheelchair, we open the door.

777

:

When we see somebody struggling, we

help, you know, and I don't, I don't

778

:

want to get into politics, but you know,

when the, when the Bush era eliminated

779

:

mental health, uh, uh, mental health

funding, our police departments became

780

:

the warehouses for mental health patients.

781

:

So, you know, we've asked our

police officers to be not only our

782

:

protectors, but to come in and provide

mental health, uh, for society.

783

:

That is not fair.

784

:

So I'm not sitting here

blaming police alone.

785

:

Our police officers need our support.

786

:

They need our encouragement.

787

:

We need to work with them to

create empathetic environment where

788

:

police officers are Are given the

tools to better deal with society.

789

:

And so that's, that's when I say, you

know, or when you want to answer your

790

:

question, that those are the steps I

believe I would like to see us take

791

:

as a society to, to fix this problem.

792

:

Cause at some point, this is

going to be all of our problems.

793

:

At some point, you're going to hear

white people getting gunned down.

794

:

At some point, you're going to

hear the wrong person get killed.

795

:

Chris P. Reed: What role do the

people in your profession have at

796

:

shaping how we, uh, address this?

797

:

Are you talking about journalists?

798

:

Brad Bowling: Well, I mean, we're trying

to do our part by bringing this to light.

799

:

We want to make sure that we

keep Roger, Roger's story in the

800

:

forefront, you know, code him.

801

:

We have a commitment to, to

the culture of being black.

802

:

Uh, you know, our job is to, is to tell

these stories and bring them to light.

803

:

So then people can affect change.

804

:

So they're aware.

805

:

Uh, so then they can make better decisions

going forward, understanding, you know,

806

:

What we have to deal with being black

in this country, and we have, we have

807

:

white readers at CODA, and we're hoping

that the people who are white that read

808

:

the magazine decide to get involved.

809

:

And so that's, that's the

role we're trying to play.

810

:

We're trying to do our

part as an organization.

811

:

You know, our executive team,

we're considering having

812

:

some type of scholarship for

Roger Fortson going forward.

813

:

Through code and foundation, where

maybe potentially a young person

814

:

who wants to go to the military,

we provide some kind of aid.

815

:

Maybe we start communicating with police

departments across the country, and

816

:

we do some type of empathy training

where we go in and we speak to them

817

:

about what black men are going through.

818

:

But something needs to be done.

819

:

Uh, to affect change with this because

I'm telling you right now, uh, I, I, Mrs.

820

:

Fortson is my hero because I don't

know what I would do if one of my

821

:

sons was murdered, uh, unnecessarily

for just simply being black.

822

:

Chris P. Reed: The tough part about it

is he was murdered because he was black.

823

:

But if you take away the fact that he

was black, he happened to be black.

824

:

So, you know, some people say.

825

:

I'm a black vice president or I'm a

vice president happens to be black.

826

:

He was an American hero and American

soldier and American success story.

827

:

So the fact that we don't have more

outlets like yours, uh, clamoring

828

:

to the fact that an American.

829

:

Serving US military, you know,

uh, uh, personnel was gunned

830

:

down or murdered over some bs.

831

:

That's the car.

832

:

That's,

833

:

Tony Tidbit: that's my point.

834

:

That makes sense to me,

that's outrageous, right?

835

:

That sense.

836

:

And that's why I

837

:

Brad Bowling: preface that point in

the article that I wanna make sure

838

:

that people understand that this

was an American patriot, right?

839

:

This is the kind of American son that

we all wish we could have had, and

840

:

the country needed Roger Fortune.

841

:

If you take a look at what's going on

around the world, we need more patriots.

842

:

We need more people to love this

country and to make that sacrifice

843

:

that he was willing to make by

joining the armed services for us.

844

:

He was doing that for you, Tony.

845

:

He was doing it for you, Chris.

846

:

And he was doing it for me.

847

:

He was doing it for me.

848

:

We need to put this man,

849

:

we need to honor him the

way he should be honored.

850

:

Tony Tidbit: Well, I can say this, um, and

I'm pretty sure Chris will agree with me.

851

:

You did that by writing this article.

852

:

My brother code M did that by chatting

with his mother and his family.

853

:

Code M, which means you, and Bilal,

telling his story about who he is.

854

:

Right and keeping his memory alive.

855

:

So I want to applaud you Okay not just

because you're on a black executive

856

:

perspective because we had nothing to

do with you writing this article and

857

:

putting him on the cover and we need more

Media publications doing the exact same

858

:

thing because it's quick to somebody's

dealing drugs or whatever Oh, they'll

859

:

be on the cover Or if there's a migrant

running across and they did, they did some

860

:

type of crime, they'll be on the cover.

861

:

Right?

862

:

But here's an American patriot.

863

:

Who is at home and here's the thing

I would say this, um, and you talked

864

:

about empathy training, which is very

key for police had they saw him as a

865

:

person versus as a group of black people.

866

:

Do you think he would be alive today?

867

:

Brad Bowling: I do.

868

:

I really do.

869

:

Yeah, Tony.

870

:

I really do.

871

:

Yeah, I really do.

872

:

Yeah, I, you know, when they, when they

found out the apartment number, I wish

873

:

there was a way that they could have found

out who rented that apartment and then

874

:

get the background in that person, you

875

:

Tony Tidbit: know, I,

876

:

Brad Bowling: there are so many

scenarios in which I played this

877

:

over in my head that hopefully would

have brought a different outcome.

878

:

And unfortunately, you know, with his

passing, we, we can't go back and redo

879

:

this, but what we can do is we can save

the next person by demanding change.

880

:

Yeah.

881

:

Tony Tidbit: Exactly.

882

:

And, and, and by saving the next person,

and I loved it, and this is my, and I

883

:

want to get your final thoughts, but

by saving the next, the next person,

884

:

the individual has to see that person.

885

:

Yeah, as a person, as an individual

versus a group, okay, because when

886

:

you see that person as an individual,

then I would, that's where the

887

:

empathy comes in versus this group.

888

:

And this group is going to

attack me versus this person.

889

:

You see my point, my

brother, you agree with that.

890

:

Brad Bowling: Do you guys understand

that Roger Fortson served three tours

891

:

overseas and he saved ten people in an

airplane when they were under attack?

892

:

He saved ten people?

893

:

This man was an American hero and I

want to make sure that I tell that

894

:

story because I need you to understand

how important he was to our country.

895

:

Chris P. Reed: I think the saddest

part though, we keep having

896

:

Alternate alternative variations

of the same story based on the

897

:

same action predicated by fear.

898

:

So regardless of the, the, the resume

or the profile, this one is a great

899

:

one, an exemplary one, but people

dying unnecessarily is tragic no

900

:

matter what country, no matter what

race, no matter what opportunities.

901

:

And so moving forward, how do we

stop having the same variation?

902

:

Yeah.

903

:

Or different variations of the same

conversation, Brad, how do we, what,

904

:

what steps need to be taken, even if

it's pie in the sky, even if it's wishful

905

:

thinking, what the hell has to happen

for us not to keep reading about this

906

:

stuff over and over again to the point

where somewhat numb and desensitized to

907

:

somebody got shot down by the police.

908

:

And the police is still walking

around, you know, comfortably.

909

:

Brad Bowling: Well, again, we

need to have, uh, anti police

910

:

profiling laws in the country to

hold them to a higher standard.

911

:

But at the same time, we need

to offer empathy training to

912

:

our police officers because they

are here to protect and serve.

913

:

And listen, the majority of

police officers are good.

914

:

They're decent

915

:

Tony Tidbit: people.

916

:

Yes.

917

:

Brad Bowling: They're good people.

918

:

Tony Tidbit: So true.

919

:

Brad Bowling: We, we all

know police officers.

920

:

I have friends who are police officers.

921

:

I have nothing but respect for

our men who protect and serve,

922

:

but, but we have a problem.

923

:

We have to admit that we have a problem.

924

:

We need to get, sit down with them

at a table and not preach, not

925

:

demand, you know, but we, we need

to recommend empathy training.

926

:

We need to go in there and enact

some type of, you know, um,

927

:

uh, I don't know if it's, okay.

928

:

Programs where, you know, we sit down

with the police and these, these, these

929

:

are, these things are happening all

over the country where you have citizen,

930

:

citizens joining the police force.

931

:

They have these oversight committees

where, you know, average citizens

932

:

join the police force, but I

don't see empathy training.

933

:

We need empathy training.

934

:

You know, police officers have

some of the highest divorce

935

:

rates in the country, right?

936

:

So there's a problem within

the police community in itself

937

:

that we need to address because

they have high stress lives.

938

:

And so we need to find a way

to support our police officers

939

:

to help them understand that

we're not here to harm them.

940

:

Now, of course, I can't speak

for every black man, but I can

941

:

speak for myself and you guys.

942

:

I'm sure I can speak for you that

we're not here to cause harm,

943

:

but we need to press upon them.

944

:

Please don't judge a book by its cover.

945

:

Take a look at the deeper,

the deeper, uh, person inside.

946

:

And so that's a loaded question,

Chris, on what we can do.

947

:

This is the beginning of it.

948

:

Uh, you know, we need to make sure

that we vote at a local level.

949

:

We need to make sure that we demand.

950

:

These laws be passed and we

need to make sure we keep this

951

:

throughout in the forefront.

952

:

And there's a part two to this.

953

:

There's a part two to this because

it's next, what do we do to create

954

:

more accountability with our police?

955

:

And so that's where it starts.

956

:

Tony Tidbit: Well, my brother, like I

said earlier, um, I'm thankful for you.

957

:

Um, and I'm pretty sure obviously

they're going through a lot of pain

958

:

right now, but I'm pretty sure his

family is thankful for you guys as well.

959

:

And we should all, um,

keep his memory alive.

960

:

And more importantly, let's try to make a

positive out of a very tragic situation.

961

:

And Remember him, but also act.

962

:

So, uh, hopefully not another family.

963

:

We'll have to deal with such a, a

heinous, very tough, um, situation

964

:

like his family is dealing with.

965

:

So we want to thank you, my brother,

Brad Bowling president of CODE

966

:

M Magazine for coming on a black

executive perspective podcast, sharing

967

:

your perspective on the article

that you wrote murdered by America.

968

:

Brad Bowling: Thank you guys.

969

:

Appreciate you, Chris.

970

:

Appreciate you, Tony.

971

:

Chris P. Reed: Let me ask you this

before we, uh, get through here.

972

:

Is there anything else or anything

more that we at a black executive

973

:

perspective podcast could do to

help you in this cause or others?

974

:

Brad Bowling: Man, you

guys have been fantastic.

975

:

The fact that we're on here having

this discussion is very important.

976

:

Um, we need, uh, a black executive

perspective to continue to bring these

977

:

tough conversations to the public.

978

:

And I mean, these are some tough

conversations that guys, I mean, you

979

:

know, this is a, in a very emotional

conversation we're having, I mean,

980

:

It's tough, bro.

981

:

When I think about my two sons, I get

emotional myself because I felt like Roger

982

:

Forson could have been my son, you know,

and I, I don't know what I, what I would

983

:

do if this happened to two of my boys.

984

:

I'm sitting here trying right now on

this podcast with you two to try and

985

:

to find a way to protect my two boys.

986

:

And this is one of the best

ways I can think to do it.

987

:

Tony Tidbit: Well, I can

tell you this, my brother.

988

:

Um, Your request is something that

we're going to do regardless, right?

989

:

We're going to keep talking

about these conversations.

990

:

Our goal is to educate people.

991

:

We want to hold people accountable,

but we have to educate them.

992

:

All right, because

that's how change starts.

993

:

There's a lot of things that need to be

done and they can be done, but first we

994

:

got to get everyone on the same mindset

because when we're on the same mindset

995

:

and we come together, we can make change.

996

:

So.

997

:

But again, it started with you

today, it started with you and

998

:

your, your editor, putting this

together and spending time with the

999

:

family and keeping his story alive.

:

00:53:28,505 --> 00:53:31,185

And we look forward to having you

come back on the Black Executive

:

00:53:31,185 --> 00:53:35,114

Perspective podcast to talk about

a lot more stories that you guys

:

00:53:35,114 --> 00:53:37,204

keep alive, that you educate people.

:

00:53:37,405 --> 00:53:39,105

So again, we want to

thank you for joining.

:

00:53:39,835 --> 00:53:41,315

Brad Bowling: All right, man,

you guys have a great day.

:

00:53:41,585 --> 00:53:43,055

Tony Tidbit: You too, my friend, you too.

:

00:53:43,405 --> 00:53:46,335

So I think it's now time for Tony's

:

00:53:46,514 --> 00:53:47,324

Tidbit.

:

00:53:47,554 --> 00:53:49,905

And the Tidbit today is

by Martin Luther King Jr.

:

00:53:51,135 --> 00:53:56,275

Change does not roll in on the

wheels of inavailability, but

:

00:53:56,285 --> 00:53:58,225

comes through continuous struggle.

:

00:53:58,955 --> 00:54:04,444

And so, we must straighten our

backs and work for our freedom.

:

00:54:05,474 --> 00:54:09,124

A man can't ride you

unless your back is bent.

:

00:54:10,054 --> 00:54:12,285

And again, that's from

Martin Luther King Jr.

:

00:54:12,915 --> 00:54:17,055

And one thing I want to add to the

tidbit, and our guest today, Brad

:

00:54:17,055 --> 00:54:21,485

Bowling spoke about it when he talked

about empathy training for police.

:

00:54:22,435 --> 00:54:26,055

I just don't think empathy

training is just for the police.

:

00:54:26,615 --> 00:54:29,385

I think empathy training is for all of us.

:

00:54:29,995 --> 00:54:34,284

We have to stop seeing people

as groups, and we have to start

:

00:54:34,284 --> 00:54:36,075

seeing people as individuals.

:

00:54:36,995 --> 00:54:41,124

Because when we see people as

individuals, then we see the

:

00:54:41,124 --> 00:54:43,524

humanity in that individual.

:

00:54:44,064 --> 00:54:48,804

And nine times out of ten, we provide

that courtesy to that other human being.

:

00:54:49,024 --> 00:54:53,705

So that's something that we're

asking all of us, all of you.

:

00:54:54,340 --> 00:54:59,750

to really take a step back and work

on not seeing people as a group.

:

00:55:00,420 --> 00:55:07,920

See them as God made human being who wants

the same things that you want, who wants

:

00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,989

to see their families grow, they want to

see their kids go to school, and they want

:

00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:17,780

to see their kids become more successful

in them, and that their kids outlive them.

:

00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:21,690

And so if everybody can do

that, that first little step,

:

00:55:22,205 --> 00:55:24,285

That'll stop tragedies like this.

:

00:55:25,775 --> 00:55:28,785

Chris P. Reed: Well, before we get out of

here, we want to thank you guys again for

:

00:55:28,785 --> 00:55:33,495

spending time with this episode, and hope

that you enjoyed it, Murdered by America.

:

00:55:34,015 --> 00:55:36,914

And we also want to remind

you of our call to action.

:

00:55:37,585 --> 00:55:38,915

We have a call to action.

:

00:55:38,925 --> 00:55:43,435

We remind you that we to

incorporate less L E S S

:

00:55:44,025 --> 00:55:46,085

Tony Tidbit: and L stands for learn.

:

00:55:46,365 --> 00:55:50,325

If it's anything, and this,

this episode epitomizes why this

:

00:55:50,325 --> 00:55:51,865

call to action is so important.

:

00:55:52,194 --> 00:55:56,024

You want to learn about people that

you don't know, people of different

:

00:55:56,024 --> 00:56:00,295

races, different cultures, because by

doing that, you'll see them as human

:

00:56:00,295 --> 00:56:01,855

beings and you become more enlightened.

:

00:56:03,300 --> 00:56:04,860

Chris P. Reed: And E is for empathy.

:

00:56:04,940 --> 00:56:07,650

You want to understand diverse

perspectives and you want to

:

00:56:07,660 --> 00:56:10,040

be right before you're fast.

:

00:56:10,070 --> 00:56:14,840

I think we're so quick to judge and quick

to castigate folks, but you want to have

:

00:56:14,890 --> 00:56:16,630

empathy for your fellow human being.

:

00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,210

Tony Tidbit: And then the

other S stands for share.

:

00:56:19,460 --> 00:56:23,620

You want to share what you've learned

to your friends and family so they

:

00:56:23,620 --> 00:56:25,300

can become enlightened as well.

:

00:56:26,770 --> 00:56:28,900

Chris P. Reed: And then

the last S is for stop.

:

00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:33,710

Actively work to stop discrimination

and foster inclusivity.

:

00:56:34,370 --> 00:56:38,070

This will help build a fairer,

more understanding world.

:

00:56:38,290 --> 00:56:42,440

Let's all do this every day if we can, and

you'll see the change that you want to,

:

00:56:42,550 --> 00:56:44,229

you'll be the change that you want to see.

:

00:56:44,530 --> 00:56:46,790

So if you hear somebody say

something out of pocket.

:

00:56:47,165 --> 00:56:47,955

Check them on that.

:

00:56:48,215 --> 00:56:51,495

Let them know there's a better

way we can be better, but we

:

00:56:51,495 --> 00:56:53,075

have to make actions to do so.

:

00:56:53,285 --> 00:56:55,785

And less incorporates those

actions that we should be taking.

:

00:56:56,415 --> 00:56:57,405

Tony Tidbit: Absolutely, Chris.

:

00:56:57,405 --> 00:57:00,465

So please everyone take

this call to action.

:

00:57:00,474 --> 00:57:02,345

Less L E S S.

:

00:57:02,615 --> 00:57:04,824

This is something that

every individual can do.

:

00:57:05,095 --> 00:57:08,474

And if you can do it, we'll start

as Chris says, being able to see

:

00:57:08,474 --> 00:57:09,885

the change that we want to see.

:

00:57:10,210 --> 00:57:13,300

So we want to thank you again for

tuning in to another episode of a

:

00:57:13,300 --> 00:57:15,480

Black Executive Perspective podcast.

:

00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:20,820

Murdered by America by CodeM

Magazine with our guest Brad Bowling.

:

00:57:21,210 --> 00:57:25,130

And you can be able to follow a Black

Executive Perspective on all our socials.

:

00:57:25,339 --> 00:57:31,250

LinkedIn, X, Twitter, YouTube,

and Facebook @ ablackexec.

:

00:57:31,530 --> 00:57:34,100

Chris P. Reed: And then also go to our

website and sign up for our newsletter.

:

00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,490

Please leave us reviews and subscribe

wherever you are listening to this

:

00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:39,910

podcast that helps us get better for you.

:

00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,779

Give us the things that you care

and are close to your heart, and

:

00:57:42,780 --> 00:57:43,930

we'll try to discuss those things.

:

00:57:44,889 --> 00:57:45,719

Tony Tidbit: Exactly, Chris.

:

00:57:45,719 --> 00:57:49,039

So again, we want to thank

our guest president of CODE

:

00:57:49,039 --> 00:57:50,420

M magazine, Brad Bowling.

:

00:57:50,820 --> 00:57:52,330

For my cohost, Chris P.

:

00:57:52,330 --> 00:57:52,700

Reed.

:

00:57:52,700 --> 00:57:54,100

Thanks a lot, Chris, buddy.

:

00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:55,350

Always, you always bring it.

:

00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:58,750

And then for our producer, Noelle

Miller, who makes everything

:

00:57:58,750 --> 00:57:59,870

happen in the background.

:

00:58:00,110 --> 00:58:01,130

We want to thank her.

:

00:58:01,310 --> 00:58:03,470

And again, we want to

thank you for tuning in.

:

00:58:03,790 --> 00:58:04,880

We talked about it.

:

00:58:04,919 --> 00:58:06,629

We love you and we're out.

:

00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,670

BEP Narrator: A Black

Executive Perspective.

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