How long do condiments last? Some of us have them in the fridge for years. Should we?

We've got the answers. We're veteran cookbook authors Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough. We've written over three dozen cookbooks in our career, been contributing editors at the likes of COOKING LIGHT and EATING WELL, and were the longest-serving columnists on weightwatchers.

We're talking about storing and preserving condiments. We've got a one-minute cooking tip on colander cooking (one of our favorite techniques from our book THE KITCHEN SHORTCUT BIBLE). Then Bruce interviews entrepreneur Lauren Chitwood of SPIRITLESS. And we tell you what's making them happy in food this week.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & Mark:

[00:57] How long do opened, purchased condiments like pickles or chutneys last?

[11:32] Our one-minute cooking tip: Put quick-cooking veggies in a colander, then pour the hot pasta and its cooking water over them.

[13:13] Bruce's interview with entrepreneur Lauren Chitwood, owner of SPIRITLESS, the maker of alcohol-free bourbon and tequila.

[24:13] What’s making us happy in food this week? Coconut water and haiga rice.

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein and this is the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

And I'm Mark Scarborough.

And together with Bruce, we have written three dozen cookbooks are

currently writing yet another, but our latest published and out on the

market is the Instant Air Fryer Bible.

Don't forget, there's also the Instant Pop Bible and the Essential

Air Fryer Cookbook, the only cookbook that sizes out every recipe.

Every size of air fryer on the market.

That was a task.

Wow.

A hill to climb.

But we're not gonna talk about any of those books in

this episode of our podcast.

Instead, we're gonna answer the long anticipated question,

how long do pickles last?

That's really, uh, quite a question right there, and I'm sure being

asked by millions of people.

Oh, we've got a one minute cooking chip.

Bruce has got an interview with Lauren Chitwood.

She's the ceo.

Spiritless.

Oh, we wanna talk about that.

And we're gonna talk about what's making us happy in food this week.

How long do pickles last?

It's a good question, right?

One that Epicurious answered in a rather lengthy piece entitled,

how Long Do Pickles Last?

Mm-hmm.

. I think that's actually really important cuz we fill our refrigerators

with all sorts of condiments.

Pickles are condiments and we fill our fridge with these things and

they stay in there for months.

Sometimes years and we still need to,

okay.

There's no pickle that has ever stayed in my refrigerator for years

because I don't believe there's ever enough vinegar in the world.

But I know people do do these kind of things and we, we, Bruce and

I go through pickles and pickled jalapeno rings like you can't believe.

But still, nonetheless, I know that there are a lot of pickled and fermented

ingredients like kimchi, right, that stick around a long time in people's

refrigerators.

They do.

We went to our fridge after I saw this article online, and I found a ton of

pickles of all varieties in there.

None of them were open this year, so now we know they've been

open for at least 6, 7, 8 weeks.

And so the question is how long are they gonna last?

And part of that has to do with whether they're shelf stable

pickles or refrigerator pickles.

So, We need to talk about what the difference between those ones.

Well, you know, so shelf stable, just to say shell stable pickles

are the pickles that you see on the shelves in the supermarket, not

in a refrigerator case, versus the ones you see in a refrigerator case.

That's just basically the difference.

So you, for example, most of the time when you buy kimchi, you are gonna find it.

In a refrigerator case.

Now, apparently the kimchi at H Mart, which I love more than I can say, the

country radish kimchi, is shelf stable because it's always out on the shelves.

Now, I don't know if that's because they sell it fast enough

that it can sit out there.

Every other kimchi I've ever seen is in a refrigerator case.

So I, I'm not sure on that one, I have to tell you.

But nonetheless, I can tell you that the, that the kimchi that I love at

H Mart is actually out on a shelf.

That's really scary.

Uh,

. Mark: Well, it's not scary cuz I love

open those country radish kimchi from.

They do bubble.

It does instant, instantly bubble.

Well, it's a live food.

Yeah.

I mean, it is absolutely a live food.

So here's the thing, every pickle that is shelf stable has a used by date on it.

And that's very misleading because those used by dates can be a year

or even two down the road, right?

But that used by date really should.

open by date because once you open it, now you're working on the same philosophy as

a fresh pickle, which only lasts about two months most before it starts to go bad.

I think that that's right.

I think you, if you see that date on there, that's the date at which, as

Bruce said, you have to open up, but then two months you are safe, but

there are signs that you're not safe.

They are.

Some of those signs include mold.

Don't eat pickles with mold on it.

Oh God.

Don't eat anything with mold on it.

Mold mean cheese.

Oh, that's edible mold.

That's no.

Well, actually hard cheese, but you know, even semi firm

cheese, like semi firm mozzarella or cheddar if it's got mold on it,

the old thing was always cut it off.

Those mold fibers can, in fact, oh, they can look far deeper than you think.

I thought you were talking like the mold on the outside of

BRI that's supposed to be there.

Right.

Okay.

That's different.

That, that is very different.

That's very different.

Um, if they're soft and mushy.

Pickles are not supposed to be soft and mushy.

So if that's the case, throw them out.

Right?

And if they have a terribly bad smell, you must throw them out.

And I should tell you that Bruce makes kimchi every summer, and there's a

recipe on our YouTube channel for Bruce making kimchi, and it's delicious.

But this last summer, a lot of things went on in our lives and we were not

able to get through the vat of kimchi.

He makes every summer.

I mean, he literally makes it five gallon bucket.

Yeah, a vat.

And we do go through it.

I love kimchi, but we do go through it.

But this summer we didn't get through it and.

Hmm.

It started to smell bad and we thought, well, you know, kimchi,

it's fermented, blah, blah, blah.

And then it really started to smell bad.

And somehow being the idiot food writers we are, we still ate it

and we both got really sick on it.

So, uh, you know, if it smells bad, by and large, it is bad.

It is.

The other thing is bulging.

Yep.

Now it is true things like kimchi and sauerkraut, if they have live

active cultures will produce gas.

And you may have a little bulge, but basically, especially in

shelf stable pickles, if your lid is bulging, get rid of it.

Especially in anything that doesn't have any live bacteria going on.

And this goes for a kimchi two.

Um, if it's fizzy, be careful and not, we're not talking about fizzy

when you first open it, but if you open it and it fizzes, okay, fine.

It's a.

Bacterial product, great.

But then if a month later you open it and it's fizzing

noticeably, now you're in danger.

You have broken the seal on it, so be careful.

This is not a good moment.

Fizzy pickles, fizzy mustards, all of that are re fizzy.

Chow chow.

If you're from the south, I know what that is.

Fizzy, chutneys, no good.

Do not want fizz under any circumstances.

So that's basically bacterial byproduct.

Things are growing in there, and I know you think how can something grow

in mustard given the amount of salt in it or the amount of acid in it?

Trust me, things can grow.

I have seen.

Mustard molded.

Oh, it can.

Absolutely.

So let's talk about mustard.

In fact, can I just say, yeah, that, uh, which I never say,

but this has nothing to do with any fermented or pickled project.

But I can tell you because of personal experience of actually hunting for

houses once that I have actually seen peeps mold, and I would tell

you that, that there's sugar mold.

I would tell you that peeps cannot mold, they're too chemical to mold.

And we looked at a house once when we were moving to New England in which

there were boxes and boxes of moldy.

Peeps

on the dining table when Mark says he's talking,

there was at least 500 boxes.

This is a hoarding house,

a complete hoarding house that she was trying to get rid of.

And I can tell you peeps do mold.

So be careful.

Let's Yeah, and do be careful.

So let's talk about mustard, ketchup, and other condiments that we tend to open

and just leave in the fridge for months.

Look, we wouldn't do that with a jar.

Pasta sauce, right?

No.

If I opened a jar of marinara, nope.

And I used half of it for a recipe, I put the other half in the.

I'm not going to eat that sauce two weeks later.

Yeah.

I know.

It's gonna be not healthy even if I don't see mold.

So why do we do that?

And we should with ketchup and mustard.

And, and, well, we should also add, because this, you brought up the, the,

the pasta thing, um, discoloration around the rim or discoloration around the.

Outside of the, uh, uh, the ingredients inside, you know, right

on the surface is also a bad sign.

If there's dried and rusty stuff around when you open the lid.

Yeah.

Or look on the inside of the lid if, mm-hmm.

, maybe you don't see mold down in your mustard, but if there's mold

on the inside of the lid mm-hmm.

chuck it.

So, okay.

Get rid of it.

The U S D A actually has a rundown on what they recommend in terms of how

long you should keep things in the fridge and ketchup with so many of

us open and keep in there for months.

Other sweet tomato-based condiments, like chili sauce.

Those actually can stay six months without any problem.

And we're talking about for, for anybody who is crazy enough to

make their own ketchup, we're talking about industrial produced ketchup.

Mm-hmm.

homemade ketchup lasts much shorter.

It is not got the shelf life that industrial ketchup has.

Nope.

So it'd be very careful if you can't catch up in the summer.

Be very careful After you open it, give it about a.

In the fridge and then get rid of it.

Chutney.

If you have like mango chutney or rhubarb chutney or anything like that according

to the U S D A, give it two months.

And again, we're not talking about homemade chutneys.

Yep.

We're talking about process jarred, chutneys, and pickles.

Right.

And, and I don't mean pickles like dill pickles, I mean pickles.

As in East Indian pickles like lime pickle.

Yeah, those I would put all in the chutney category.

Yeah.

And as Mark said, mustards, whoever sees the mold well, it's the

interesting thing, the U S D A gives them the longest refrigerator shelf

life that you can keep most mustards open for a year in your fridge.

yeah and olives.

If you open the container from the supermarket or if you buy them

in a jar or can, we're talking about two weeks once it's open.

Mm-hmm.

be very careful about all these products because they can cause

problems and you don't want any of the problems that they cause.

Remember, uh, used by date is really probably the open by date.

Mm-hmm.

. But once you open it, now everything is ticking.

Now the clock has started ticking.

Now that said, there.

Places where one does find a jar of pickles, I'm thinking about cleaning out

my parents' house two years ago, , and one does find a jar of pickles in the

pantry that the open by date or used by date is two and three years old.

Let me just say I chucked those.

Good idea, even if it's not bulging.

I didn't touch 'em because they had been in my parents'

pantry for so long that I didn't.

I know this seems wasteful.

And listen, none of us.

Food waste, but I assure you, a little food waste is better

than a lot of food poisoning.

Before we get to our next segment on the podcast, let me

say that we have a newsletter.

Would you like to be a part of that newsletter?

There's all kinds of.

Tips and tricks that come out in the newsletter.

It's got some heartfelt bits about our lives.

It's got knitting patterns.

It comes out, I don't know, let's say it comes out every once in a

while, but if you'd like to have a part of that newsletter, there's a

recent one about grief and cooking.

There's a recent one about Bruce's knitting projects if you'd like to be.

On that mailing list, you can go to our website, Bruce and mark.com.

Drop down on the landing page, the page you get to first.

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The emails go out blind copied, so no one else can ever see them.

So if you'd like to be a part of that, go to bria mark.com.

Okay, up next, segment two, our one minute cooking tip.

Here is an easy, quick.

Pasta idea, and Mark and I like to call this calendar cooking

and this idea we published in our book, the Kitchen Shortcut Bible.

So you take a calendar and put it in your sink.

Hmm.

Then you put in quick cooking vegetables, like little cauliflower

flour rats, sliced string beans, shredded carrots, thinly cut zucchini.

You put these quick cooking vegetables in the calendar, in the sink.

Mm-hmm.

, then cook your spaghetti or other pasta as usual, but use a.

very large pot.

Cause you want a lot of boiling water.

Large is the key.

When the pasta's done drain the pasta over those veggies, that boiling

water going over will blanch them.

Mm-hmm.

let the hot pasta sit in them for about a minute and those veggies will be cooked.

It'll be ready to be tossed up with a sauce of your choice pesa,

or even melted butter and cheese.

Before we get to the big interview in this podcast, let's

say, it would be great if you would subscribe, if you would rate it, we

are unsponsored, so you, which means we can talk about pickles all we want.

So if you could rate it, that would really help us in the

analytics and help us keep going.

You can find that rating on Spotify, on Google Podcasts, on Apple Podcast

where it's found and if you go to the trouble and drop down the

page, you can even write a review.

And even something as simple as NICE podcasts does wonders for us.

Again for being on this journey with us.

Okay, up next, Bruce's interview with Lauren Chitwood.

She's is the c e O of Spiritless, a, maker of alcohol-free bourbon and tequila.

Today I'm lucky enough to be talking with Bourbon lover and.

Alcohol Free Spirits entrepreneur, Lauren Chitwood.

She and her business partners created the brand called Spiritless, and their

flagship product is Kentucky 74, which they call a beautifully distilled

non-alcohol spirit for bourbon cocktails.

Welcome, Lauren.

Thank you, Bruce.

I'm so excited to be here.

I wanna start with the basics.

Can you tell me what is bourbon if it's not an alcoholic beverage?

I know.

What a loaded question, right?

We, we went to great lengths to try to give the consumer as many touchpoints

to understand what this might be like while obviously, you know, honoring

the, the, the treasure that is bourbon.

So, you know, I, I live in Louisville, Kentucky, you know, bourbon.

In our blood and all around us here in, in these neck of the woods.

But you know what, what we really wanted as, as moms, as business

women was, you know, to be able to go out and, and keep up with the boys

even when we couldn't keep up with the boys , if we're being honest.

Right?

And so, you know, I love an incredible old fashioned I can.

One.

Mm-hmm.

. And you know, if I make that decision to move to the second, I just can't hang.

Right.

So what's wonderful about, about Spiritless and certainly about Kentucky 74

is it's an incredible tool in our toolkit.

It is reminiscent of that incredible Native spirit we've created this.

Awesome process to be able to hold on to all the tannins and

the oils and really, you know, have something that's darn close.

Not the same but darn close.

You say this is a distilled spirit and people think, well, what

comes out of the still is alcohol, so how do you create an alcohol free?

Product coming out of a still without giving away all your trade secrets.

It's a wonderful story.

So, you know, what we knew was that the consumer was making purchase decisions

about these incredible spirits based upon how, how these products were made.

Right.

At what age, et cetera.

Right.

And you know, when we looked at the space broadly, what we saw in the

competitive set was that it was all water with a bunch of flavoring in it.

And we just.

That doesn't feel like a spirit to me.

You can't call yourself a spirit.

We know better than that.

Right?

And so what actually happened was we built this little baby still in our basement,

Um, it was YouTube University all the way.

It was literally a popcorn tin with a commercial SousVide.

We connected it to this P v C pipe arm that had a sump pump and a cooler,

and we were buying bulked forester off the shelf and, and basically

trying to low and slow just vapor.

Just like you would on a stove in some ways, the ethanol off

and see what would happen.

Right.

And, you know, there was, there was some incredible learnings, uh, you know,

that is not technically our process now, but it really informed, you know, some

of our foundational truths or thoughts about how to manipulate a spirit.

Can we do a distillation process that lets us make better?

And you know, what we, what we now have is we do a, essentially a thermal extraction.

We put essentially the barrel into the still.

If you can wrap your mind around that.

Um, we literally have this huge tea bag that goes in with

a corn based grain neutral.

And we, in about, I don't know, a handful of hours, seven hours, take

all the flavor out of that chart.

So we're just speeding up the process, right?

Because generally speaking, a barrel, you know, sits in a Rick

house for at least four years in this crazy Kentucky weather salute.

It surely expands and contracts.

We say, you know, we're impatient.

We're women.

We need to get this done faster.

We got stuff to do.

So in about seven hours, we do what, what the good Lord does in four years, and then

we're able to take off in another process.

Just the ethyl in just the Esther, and that comes off crystal.

, it looks like water, but what's left after we take off and hold on to

those flavor molecules is just this incredible concentrate that holds on

to all the tannins and the oils from that oak and allows us to, to have

our first ingredient in Kentucky 74 or our tequila product, hallis, go 55.

You know, b.

Our distillate.

So that is the crazy way it came to be.

And you know, really it's, it's a, it's a fun, slick process.

It just allows us to make incredible liquid.

That sounds fascinating.

Being able to take all the flavor from the wood and then get rid of

the alcohol and be left with that sort of concentrated essence of

bourbon with without the alcohol.

But what about this process and what about Kentucky 74?

Makes your product different from all the other non-alcoholic bourbons on the market

process alone is, is probably the biggest differentiator.

As I said, almost everything is water and flavor, and we wanted something that

had enough heft to it and had enough body to it that really allowed it to walk the

walk of a, of a spirit of a cocktail.

And I think ethanol is a magical molecule.

It has a, an obviously a very incredible sensory component.

Also melds flavors and, you know, there's, there's all kind.

Interesting things that ethanol brings to the table.

Certainly when you remove that by design, there are going

to be things that you miss.

Yeah.

But the delicate balance of being able to hold onto enough of those flavor

molecules to really still have heft to me is the magic and the elegance

of what is spiritless products.

You know, because of our process, we're allowed to just have liquid that stands

head and shoulders above the rest

across the board.

Though most non alcohol experience do lack something, you said that

there's gonna be something missing and one of the things is the burn.

Now a lot of people enjoy that burn, even if it's a mild burn.

So how do you address that?

At Spiritless,

broadly across the space, there are people that are trying

to mimic that burn, um, and they're doing it with pepper and for.

You know, as, as easier ears and drinkers, we said, this feels like a chicken wing.

This doesn't feel like a spirit to me.

And I know there's people that are really looking for that and

need that, but for us, we said we want something that is a sipper.

We want something that feels complex and, and and deep and has that heft to it.

But if I could pick and choose, Our pallets, were much more focused on that

side of it versus replicating burn.

Mm-hmm.

So I think, you know, in Spiritless products you're gonna find some of

that and there's some things that, that certainly you can do to help, um, kind

of bridge that gap when you're using non-alcoholic spirits and cocktails.

You know, for us we have a product that's called horses Kick ginger syrup.

You know, we've actually found that Ginger is a great building block to

get some of that natural heat that doesn't have that capsaicin heat.

So I would highly recommend if you.

Make it an old fashioned or a margarita with a, with a Spiritless product.

Pick up some horses kick because I think you're gonna go, Ooh,

let's fix that little hole.

That tiny, tiny little hole that was there.

You talked about jalisco 55, that's your second product.

Tell me about that.

When we founded Spiritless, one of the things that we wanted

to do was to be able to walk in a bar and order classics, right?

Have an old fashioned, have a margarita, and you know, that was, that was

a big piece of our inspiration.

I think the other side of that is, you know, In the non-alcoholic spirit

space broadly, there's certainly a lot of a, a lot of different

flavors and experiences out there.

But in the bourbon and in the tequila world, those are two very, very distinct

spirits that are really hard to do well.

Um, and, and I think there's some reasons for that.

Obviously, when you start playing with gins and, you know, a variety of other

things, com you know, uh, even just like some Campari based spirits, like

those are, those are more off the.

If you will.

Flavors, mm-hmm.

, I mean, Juniper, for example.

Easy extraction.

Yep.

So we worked really, really hard to get some of that tequila bunk,

you know, and to, to build in some of those, those building blocks.

And I think we've done, we've done a pretty incredible job for it.

But it, it makes a mean margarita.

I know we're not quite in margarita season yet, but, um, you know, you will

really go, oh my gosh, like this feels.

This.

This feels like a tequila cocktail.

Hey, Lauren, do you see a place for alcohol free spirits like your Kentucky

75 and HESCO 55 on the bar for everyone?

Or is your market strictly for folks who don't partake in alcohol?

I think that one of the most shocking statistics that we've now been

able to kind of prove and um, and check an enormous scale is that 75% of the

consumers who consume adult non-alcoholic products like spiritless, like non

beer, also consume alcoholic products.

Hmm.

Right.

So what, what people are now realizing is these are incredible

tools in your toolkit, right?

It's you're, you're on an antibiotic or you're, you know, watching your

calories and you're being good during the week, um, or you know, you're a

female at a business dinner and you can't have three, like the boys can, right?

There are so many reasons that these.

Can be incredible additions to people's lives that still enjoy, you know, enjoy

spirits, enjoy alcohol on occasion.

And I think that that's really what we're seeing in a broad scale.

You know, they are products for everybody sometimes, but not

necessarily everybody all the time.

Well, I think you and your partners have created an

amazing addition to this category.

Lauren Chitwood from Spiritless.

Thank you for spending some time with me and talking about your amazing products.

Oh, listen, thank you.

I appreciate you hosting me, Bruce.

We're thrilled to be here.

My pleasure.

So this whole thing of spirit free spirits is becoming quite a trend, right?

It really is.

And I love the fact that, as she said, that the majority of people who drink.

Spiritless spirits and her products also drink alcohol.

That this is not just interesting for people who don't want alcohol, but for

people to add it to their toolbox of things so they can have, you know, so

let's say you really like to have a drink, but you ca as she said, you can't have

more than one or more than two, right?

But you want to keep.

Going with the evening and enjoy the flavor and enjoy the camaraderie.

So you have one drink with real bourbon and then you make your

next one or two with Spiritless.

It's a really great idea and it's a great idea also, if you, um,

you know, in New England where we live, we go to a lot of dinner parties and.

Inevitably cuz it's so waspy.

Inevitably there's cocktail hour before the dinner party.

Inevitably hour or two.

Yeah, two hour cocktail hours before the dinner party.

And you know, it would be really great to be able to sip on a Spiritless

bourbon or tequila because somebody's opening an ice bottle of wine with.

Dinner and you know, you think to yourself, oh my gosh, if I drink, uh,

tequila now and then I tear into the wine later, it's gonna all add up to a headache

tomorrow and a stomach ache tomorrow and, you know, not such good stuff.

So it, it's really a great idea all around to, it is kind of cut down on the

overall amount of ethanol you absorb.

Our last segment of the podcast as is traditional, what's making

us happy in food this week?

And you get to go first.

Well, I'm loving my coconut water.

It's just something that is like, I don't know.

I really.

But it's interesting.

So I've drunk coconut water for a long time, but what I have come to realize,

I'm gonna insert and say I despise coconut water.

I, I just despise it.

I know you, it makes me just wanna run out of the room.

So please go on

with, well, I drink it water because I like it and not

because like the advertising on it.

And some people say, oh, it's so hydrating.

Okay.

You know what else is hydrating?

Water, water.

Water is hydrating.

, I drink it cuz I like it and it's actually not terribly high in sugar.

So I thought until I started looking at all the labels, some

brands, even if they say, No sugar added are sweeter than others.

And how do you know how much sugar's in it?

Then look at the nutrition info on the label.

See how many net carbs are in a cup.

Mark and I were recently added a charming little market in Great Barrington,

and they had a big collection of coconut waters and some had as few as.

Eight grams of carbs per cup.

Some went up to 12, and that's with no added sugar.

So I guess it depends on where they're sourcing their

coconuts, where they're coming.

Some coconuts have more sugar in them than others, what the

ripeness of the coconut was.

So you can actually control the sugar content just by looking at the label.

Right.

It, it is a, it is really important if you're interested in controlling your

sugar content to always read the labels.

It's always important to anything to read the labels.

What's making me happy this week in food is Haiga Rice, and if you don't

know what Haga Rice is, I'm here to tell you that it is something that

you should explore in your life.

Haiga Rice is a great kind of median point between white rice and brown rice, right?

It is.

Brown rice has the bran around the.

kernel and the germ under that brand.

Right?

Right.

The germ is where a lot of the flavor and the oils and some of the good nutrition

right from rice comes from, and the bran is, the bran is just pure roughage.

Yeah.

The brand is fiber and it's, it has dietary reasons to be there, but it

is the fibrous content of the brown.

Right.

Nice

Haiga.

Rice.

Removes the bran but not the germ, which is really weird.

So you get all the flavor of brown rice, you do get more nutrition than white rice.

You don't get quite as much fiber as brown rice.

No, but you do get more fiber than if you ate plain, regular milled white rice.

Right?

And it.

Cooks as fast as white rice, which is really nice.

H A I G A.

You can find it at H Mart, you can find it at Asian supermarkets.

Sometimes you can find it at large gourmet supermarkets.

You can always find it online.

It's a great way to kind of.

Ease yourself into eating brown rice, which is of course highly nutritious

brown rice and very good for you.

But if you're a little afraid of the whole brown rice commitment

hiker rice cooks like white rice, it tastes a little bit like brown rice.

It's a great median point between the two.

Okay, that's our podcast for this week.

We are so glad you've been along on this journey.

We are busily writing our next cookbook out later this year.

But in the meantime, we're here every week at cooking with Bruce and Mark finding

out about food trends, interviewing food entrepreneurs, people starting

food businesses, cookbook authors.

You get it all.

. At cooking with Bruce and.