Laura and Xhafer discuss the paper products of BSG. Laura wonders if Cavils can get along. Xhafer doubts the cleanliness of Leoben's basestar. This episode covers Battlestar Galactica Season 4, Episode 3: The Ties That Bind.

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Hey, we got a content warning for you this week, listener.

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We'll go ahead and flag suicide,

domestic abuse, infanticide.

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So if any of those things are

gonna be tough to listen to,

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just uh, just skip this one.

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We'll see you next week.

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Laura: Hello and welcome to Who Are You.

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We're a reasonably well done sci-fi

watch cast by a couple of former

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strangers who are now friends and

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I'm Laura,

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Xhafer: And I'm jair.

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Laura: and it's a big one today.

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Jair.

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Xhafer: It's a big one.

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Um, like last episode preview, I

had added a sentence of all of these

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things that we've discussed in the

preview are not what you're going

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to remember about this episode.

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Laura: Right.

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Xhafer: Very true.

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Um, this is a big one.

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This is the Cali episode.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: Which if you have seen Battlestar

Gica before, you know exactly what

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the fuck I mean when I say that.

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And it's also uh, the start

of the silent civil war.

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Right.

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That's this episode.

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That is that next one?

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No, it's this one.

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Right.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: They start.

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Good.

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I know you already watched the

next one, so I wasn't too worried

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about a spoiler there, but I

was pretty sure it was this one.

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Laura: Yeah.

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I guess I hadn't in my mind called

it civil war yet, but that seems

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to be what we're building at.

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Xhafer: The, it's definitely

what it is referred to in the

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mythos, so you might not have

that title yet, but that's coming.

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Laura: I definitely thought in

the last episode that we were

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shaping up that six was trying

to genocide half of her, people.

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So yeah, civil war, sure,

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Xhafer: Yep.

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Laura: call it that.

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But lots of crazy stuff in here.

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This is four, episode three.

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And I kind of guess I wasn't

prepared for something.

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So story changing and impactful

and exciting to happen so quickly.

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I thought we'd have a few kinda, I don't

know, filler rep maybe, but not here.

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Xhafer: Not yet, but soon-ish.

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I mean, I don't know that there's, I don't

know that there's an episode that I would

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call filler for the rest of the show.

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There might be, and I'm

forgetting about it,

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Xhafer: but there's no like.

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Random episodes spent down below with

a cultural group that we've never met

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before and won't meet again afterwards.

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Thing like,

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Laura: Sagittarians?

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Xhafer: yeah, exactly like that.

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That stuff's done.

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At this point, it's gonna be

plot, plot, plot, plot, plot, and

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sometimes the plot will move slow and

sometimes the plot will move fast.

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Laura: And today it felt

heck and fast to me,

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Xhafer: It sure did.

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The season four episode three.

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The ties that bind, man.

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What a lost opportunity to spell tie.

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TIGH.

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I guess it would be the tie

that binds at this point.

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'cause it's just Saul, but like you

could have made that work somehow.

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Didn't we get a punt on his

name in a different episode?

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Title?

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Laura: I think you might be

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Xhafer: Time me up.

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Time me down.

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Yeah.

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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But I don't think that if you spelled

this, if you made it the tie that binds

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that, that's appropriate for this episode.

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That might be next episode.

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'cause we see a lot more of

Saul in the next episode.

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Xhafer: there's not a whole lot of Saul in

this episode, but I just see that episode

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name and I'm all like, ripe for the pun.

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Maybe I've just known Ben too long.

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Laura: No, I like a good word play.

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Xhafer: yeah.

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Laura: we can do that.

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Xhafer: you know that if it was

uh, the tie that binds that Ryan

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would've guessed on this episode,

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Laura: absolutely.

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Xhafer: he's got that history so.

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Laura: has Ryan picked

one for season four?

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Do

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Xhafer: He has.

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Yeah.

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due to the nature of this show and

particularly the tail end of this season,

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Xhafer: all of our usual suspects

signed up for episodes at the back half.

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So we actually, we don't have a guest

until episode 15 of season four right now.

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And then

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for, uh, 15 to 19.

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we have four guests lined up right now,

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Laura: Oh,

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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So it's gonna be like guest

every week towards the end.

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Laura: That's cool.

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What a, what a way to send it off though.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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But we open this episode in

Media Resurrection and learn

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that silent society is fractured.

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Laura: Specifically in this

resurrection, caval wakes up and

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boomers starts smooching him.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Yep.

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That's, that's a thing that's happening

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Laura: we're doing it.

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Xhafer: and we're doing it.

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Laura: I am confused a little

bit about these resurrections

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: because like we're being told

at this point, the Cavel, the Simons

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and the Doral are all on the same side.

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Right?

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: And the Sharon's, the sixes

and the Leos are a different side, so.

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We have one Sharon

Boomer, who is defected,

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Xhafer: Yes.

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Laura: She was shot in the last

episode along with Cavel, right?

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Xhafer: Hypothetically.

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Laura: Yeah,

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Xhafer: I don't know that she was

still, if she was on board at that

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point, she might not have been.

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I don't think we saw her get

shot when Cavel and the Doral.

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Laura: in the same room, but maybe not.

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because if she's in the same room

and they're all getting shot and

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we're all resurrecting, are we all

just resurrecting on different ships?

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Like do we have one ship that's like

all Cavel, Doral, Simons and one

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Sharon for Boomer to resurrect into.

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So they can all be on different

sides, or do we all just take off?

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What?

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I don't, I don't understand.

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Xhafer: I don't think it's

supposed to make sense.

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Ooh, it's silent society.

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What a mystery.

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Um, I think after this episode,

yes, they're on separate ships.

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Laura: Yeah, but I, I would think

the resurrection ships would just

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have like a little bit of every

model, you know, like just in case

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Xhafer: That would make sense.

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Yeah.

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Um, there's a line in here too that's

a little bit of a throwaway where

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caves like, get me back to my ship.

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Like

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Xhafer: there's kind of like an

implication because there's the one

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Cavel here and there's the other cavel,

and he doesn't want to be on this ship.

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He wants to be on the other one.

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That caves are kind of like

one per ship and the captains.

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Laura: Oh yeah.

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Maybe they can't get

along with each other.

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Xhafer: I don't think they can.

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Laura: Yeah, I could see Cavel

sitting there, like looking at each

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other, being like this fucking guy.

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Oh, but they're just so incredulous

that the sixes would do this.

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Like on earth?

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Why would they.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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So Kelly gets woken up by Nikki as

we see flashes of her terro fighting.

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When she wakes up from

this crying, he is gone.

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She finds that Joe's napkin in his pants.

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Question, Laura,

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Laura: Uhhuh.

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Xhafer: why does this bar

napkin have four corners?

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Laura: The audacity,

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Xhafer: Right.

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Laura: how very dare,

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Xhafer: Unbelievable.

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Laura: it's a different

kind of paper product.

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I mean,

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Xhafer: It does.

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It is recycled paper.

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Like That's a good question.

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If they had dot matrix printers, do

the corner tabs rip when they pull?

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'cause it's the same idea

as toilet paper, right?

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It's the roll.

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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I, I think you still gotta have the

corners on your toilet paper 'cause

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Xhafer: We get corners a

number of times on paper.

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Sometimes photos have the

corners, sometimes they don't.

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It is not consistent.

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But I just thought it

was a phone call out.

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Laura: Yeah.

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pretty funny.

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Also just like.

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It's a perfectly pristine

napkin in his pants pocket.

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Xhafer: Right.

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Impossible.

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Laura: Like anything that goes

in Laura's pants, pockets has

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at least three creases in it.

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Right?

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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I mean, I would hear an

argument for all of Galactic's

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laundry being dry, clean only.

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Laura: Mm.

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Okay.

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Xhafer: But that doesn't mean that

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Laura: like, if Laura's at

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Xhafer: I.

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Laura: and puts a napkin in her

pocket and goes and sits down

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like that shit is not staying

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Xhafer: Yeah,

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Laura: ire

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Xhafer: and he's not a stand

at the bar kind of guy.

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We've see.

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We see this in the next scene.

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Laura: all the time.

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He's, he's sitting and he's doing the,

like, elbows on the table, like head in

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the hands, like I'm so sad all the time.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: He's so sad.

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He's so tired constantly.

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And he's there drunk talking to

Tori, and they both look like shit.

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Laura: Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: Kelly takes Nikki down

to Joe's with her, sees Tori

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putting her hands on her man.

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She yells at him.

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And then PS to theme,

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Laura: Okay.

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So.

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we come to the bar.

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Tyrell is like whining about how

he doesn't know who he is anymore,

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and Tori, Tori is doing this on

purpose it seems like, right?

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: Like she's stroking Tyrell's arm.

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She's not just like reaching out and

touching him like they're there friend.

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It is full on.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: him she likes the way things

are going and the turn everything is

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taking, and Tyrell just has the most

deliberate expression on his face of

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telling her I like things how they are.

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Xhafer: He rebukes real hard.

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Laura: Yes.

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Kelly doesn't get any of that.

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That's audience benefit,

not Kelly's benefit.

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And yeah, that's, that's why she's

like storming away and puking and crazy

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Xhafer: Yep.

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Laura: Um, and we, we do get

like a shot of Tori, like.

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Drunken and smirking to

the camera before theme.

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Xhafer: Tori going full.

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If we don't make at least like air

quotes, if we don't make at least

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one of these, silents a fucking

bastard, then what was the point?

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Laura: Uh,

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Xhafer: Whatever her last name is.

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Um,

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Laura: she's fucking bastard.

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I knew it.

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Xhafer: yeah.

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Yeah.

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survivor Count 39,676.

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No change,

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Laura: No changes.

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Xhafer: changes.

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Laura: exciting.

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Xhafer: We see Rosalyn

getting some space chemo.

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The dad, Merle reads to her from a Mr.

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Mystery slash Noir novel like

we know she enjoys from previous

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conversations in book lens.

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Laura: Uhhuh.

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Xhafer: Lee gets a formal appointment

to the quorum of 12 for Caprica here.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: Uh, Zurich is hanging out.

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I dunno if you noticed

when they're talking.

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Rosalyn's Whiteboard has

a way different number.

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Laura: Oh, I didn't, what does it say?

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Xhafer: has 34,279.

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Laura: Is that the, without military

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Xhafer: That is without, yeah,

that's without 5,397, which is the

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general number of military personnel.

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Currently, without having an

exact hard number on that,

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Laura: that feels like a lot of military

personnel, but I guess maybe you're

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constantly recruiting and what have you.

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Xhafer: battle stars are big

ass ships, and they've had two.

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Laura: Yeah, I don't remember.

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I know we've discussed like that Pegasus

had like kind of a skeleton crew,

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Xhafer: Yeah, but their

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Laura: Was it?

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: All right.

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Xhafer: And then it dwindled down, and I

mean, when they joined, it was a number

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increase of 2000, I think maybe like 1800.

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I'd have to go back and look at

the numbers, but it was a big jump.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Okay.

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Civilian numbers 34,000.

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Xhafer: The Demetrius is being

brought up by the Press Corps and

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mom is pissed, but covers for dad.

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You gotta have a united

front with the kids.

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Laura: Uh Huh.

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Yeah.

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But the Press Corps

seems to know about Kath

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: least, that she's

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Xhafer: Alive.

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Laura: well, and she's got the Demetrius.

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Uh, Did they know she died?

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Like, was that a big enough news

that it went out, or do they just

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think like, oh, know, careth race

has it and that's normal, or,

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Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

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Laura: I, I think it's implied that they.

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They know something's

weird about Kara, right?

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: But Demetrius went

away three weeks ago.

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We find that out.

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Xhafer: Yes.

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we cut over to them.

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Kara is chasing her visions.

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On this ship we see Gata,

Celick, halo, Athena, and Anders.

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Question one.

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Where the fuck is their daughter?

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If they're both here,

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Laura: Ah, yeah.

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Xhafer: fuck's up with that.

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That seems dumb.

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Laura: Mm.

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This seems, actually, this is breaking

my, this is, I cannot believe this.

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I cannot believe that Hilo and

Athena would go without hair.

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Xhafer: That they would either go

without hair or that they would

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both go on the same mission.

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You'd think you would not do

that from a like parenting

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perspective whenever possible.

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Laura: especially after

they were separated from

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: that they were for, so as

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Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

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Laura: you are not gonna get both

of them going on this goddamn

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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I mean, send Athena.

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That makes sense.

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Like, there might be reasons to send her.

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Sending Hilo makes very little sense

given he's the second in command

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of the ship effectively right now.

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He like fills in for Saul

on after hours and stuff.

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He's the exo.

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Sometimes we see him doing important

things around the ship pretty regularly,

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so like, what the fuck is he doing there?

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Laura: Yeah.

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I mean, the way Hilo

has been empathetic to

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Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

350

Laura: I, I believe him a

little more almost than Athena

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Xhafer: I think he would

volunteer before Athena,

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Laura: Oh yeah.

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Xhafer: I also think it makes the

least amount of sense to let him go.

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Laura: And Anders makes a ton of

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Xhafer: Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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St.

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Anders.

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Laura: got Anders,

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Hilo, Athena, and ga.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: Those are all

important people to go acta.

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Xhafer: Well, which is question two.

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Why the fuck did you send all the

pilots on the thing with no vipers?

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Laura: I was about to say that.

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Like we, we were running out of pilots

and we finally got like some new nuggets,

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Xhafer: Yeah,

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Laura: and, Anders Lee's out.

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Helo could be a pilot even if he's

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Xhafer: like on Galactica.

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They've got what racetrack right now.

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Laura: yeah.

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What is this?

374

What are we doing?

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Xhafer: Was racetrack in the background on

the Demetrius, and I just didn't notice.

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Laura: No, no, no, no.

377

Racetrack I'm pretty sure shows up

in the next episode doing stuff.

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So yeah, I think she's on acta

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Xhafer: Okay.

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Laura: right.

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but what are we doing?

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Why did we send all these people on this?

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Especially like I get that gita's good,

but Gada very clearly does not wanna

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Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

385

Laura: He is a giant asshole

to Kara as she's like.

386

You know, plotting course on vibes.

387

Xhafer: Yeah, Gado would be the

last person to volunteer for

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this, and also is like the person

who's pretty much responsible for

389

setting the course of the ship.

390

Laura: Mm-hmm.

391

Xhafer: he's the one who's going through

all the star charts, being all like maybe

392

over here and like, why would he be here?

393

I know he was helping Kara on

Galactica, but that made sense when

394

that's what the big ship was doing.

395

Laura: Mm-hmm.

396

Xhafer: As far as we know, he's one

of the few people alive who can plot

397

a jump course without a computer,

398

Laura: Yeah.

399

short order, in these

stressful situations, we

400

always seem to find ourselves

401

Xhafer: right?

402

Like he would be the most important person

to keep with the fleet, you would think.

403

Laura: I just, this, the Demetrius

crew doesn't make a ton of sense to me,

404

especially the ones that hate being here.

405

Xhafer: Yeah.

406

Laura: And.

407

Helos having to like, keep

everybody in line and s but

408

can't even be nice to Anders.

409

Like at one point he's like, Hey,

410

Xhafer: Yeah.

411

We get this scene where he, she's like

standing above him through the grates

412

Laura: Uhhuh,

413

Xhafer: and like the lights

are above her and they laid

414

her up like a Renaissance halo.

415

Yeah.

416

Laura: mm-hmm.

417

Xhafer: crazy.

418

Laura: like an angel.

419

It's

420

Xhafer: Yeah, right?

421

Hmm.

422

Laura: But he's just like asking, please

sir, may I have a crumb of context?

423

And she says, context isn't for engines.

424

Xhafer: Context is for Kings baby.

425

Get the fuck outta here.

426

Laura: don't know.

427

Demetrius, I'm, I hope Demetrius

doesn't drag on as long as

428

Deanna and her Fantastic.

429

Five.

430

Did

431

Xhafer: the MOUs plot, I think just

from sheer number of episodes, will

432

Laura: I

433

Xhafer: not last as long

as Hilo and Athena on cap.

434

Laura: on Caprica.

435

That was like a whole

fucking season though.

436

Xhafer: I am just trying to give you a

little bit of reassurance here without

437

putting a number of episodes on it.

438

Okay?

439

Laura: sure, sure, sure, sure.

440

Okay.

441

Yeah.

442

But back on Galactica Terrill is trying

to convince Callie that nothing happened.

443

Uh, I guess they're back

in their quarters, right?

444

She does not care.

445

but she's got a doctor's

appointment she's gotta go to,

446

so he's gonna need to drop Nikki

447

Xhafer: Yeah.

448

Laura: and she also thinks that

Nikki might be allergic to the

449

algae mash, which is interesting.

450

Xhafer: a problem.

451

Yeah.

452

Laura: Yeah.

453

Only algae mash these days.

454

Xhafer: a lot of options.

455

Cavel sits down with some Sharons

and a six to try and reconcile.

456

Their terms are Stop by itemizing the

Raiders and give Lucy Lawless a job again.

457

Laura: Yeah.

458

Xhafer: Reasonable?

459

Laura: Yeah.

460

All 12 models need to be united.

461

even though those five of them

we're not supposed to think about.

462

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

463

There's a a little telling moment here

though, where six asks Ace Centurion

464

to do something and doesn't say please.

465

And the Asurion are shown to not have

blind allegiance to their emancipators.

466

Laura: yeah, has

467

Xhafer: We will come back to that thread.

468

Hmm.

469

Laura: Yeah, it sounded like

we would because uh, caval.

470

Clocks it and says This is gonna be

a bigger thing than you think it is.

471

Xhafer: Yeah, and he's right.

472

Maybe Zurich talks with Lee.

473

Roslyn is becoming paranoid.

474

No notes allowed in their meetings.

475

Everything is classified

decrees with no debate.

476

He doesn't doubt her intentions

though, which is important to note.

477

Laura: Yeah.

478

Yeah, it is.

479

It is weird.

480

I, I trouble with this whole conversation.

481

I was like, I don't

understand what he's saying.

482

Xhafer: The problem is her methods

not, not the things that she's doing.

483

Laura: Yeah.

484

I was like, what is he trying to say?

485

And then he.

486

He, he ultimately lands on Demetrius

is the tip of the iceberg, but

487

Demetrius isn't even her thing.

488

was an Adama

489

Xhafer: Yeah.

490

Laura: And he says that.

491

Laura is not a tyrant and wants to

save them, but then leaves a classified

492

file in front of Lee on his way out.

493

So I was like, I'm confused.

494

What is your, what is your whole deal?

495

Maybe you can explain it

a little better to me.

496

Xhafer: Um, without getting too spoilery

for stuff that hasn't happened yet,

497

the important thing to take away from

this scene is that people believe

498

in our leads in in mom and dad, but

they might not be communicating what

499

they're doing in a manner that lets

people feel comfortable with it.

500

Laura: Yeah, that's a very mom

and dad thing to do anyway,

501

Xhafer: Yeah.

502

Laura: in a family unit

503

Xhafer: Yeah.

504

It's a, this is the, the appearance

of their actions is different from

505

the intention of their actions and the

appearance of their actions is still

506

important for morale in the fleet.

507

Laura: Sure, sure.

508

I just was confused, especially

by him being like, Demetrius

509

is the tip of the iceberg.

510

And I'm like, well,

511

Xhafer: Well, Zurich is

a conspiracy theorist, so

512

Laura: yeah.

513

And I'm like, but, wasn't even her.

514

Xhafer: Yeah, well, we know that,

515

Laura: it had

516

Xhafer: but she's covering it up.

517

Laura: Yeah, that's true.

518

She

519

Xhafer: She's complicit now,

even if she didn't want to have

520

it happen in the first place.

521

Laura: Right.

522

Xhafer: so.

523

Laura: Okay.

524

Well, I was like, I don't know how to

feel about all this Derrick business.

525

Like he's, he's given Lee a job and

whatever, but it kind of seems like he

526

wants Lee to like do the things he can't.

527

Xhafer: Yeah.

528

Laura: that could be fine,

or that could be not fine.

529

Xhafer: We will find out.

530

Laura: Yeah.

531

Xhafer: Kali goes to see coddle who

takes her side on things, but is also

532

like you need sleep and the drugs that

you're taking are not helping you sleep

533

and they increase your paranoia and your

lack of sleep increases your paranoia,

534

and I'm speaking to you from a very

medical, I'm trying, he does a very good

535

job of like not invalidating her, but

also just being a like, listen, your

536

mental state is altered by your actions.

537

You have to, at the very

least, acknowledge that.

538

Laura: Yeah.

539

I, I have a confusing

thing in my notes here.

540

When they're having this

conversation, one of them hasn't

541

been able to sleep since the Nebula?

542

Is it him or is it her?

543

Xhafer: it sounds like both of them.

544

Laura: Okay.

545

They're both like disturbed by that

546

Xhafer: Yeah.

547

Laura: experience.

548

Xhafer: he's probably tossing

and turning and keeping her up.

549

I.

550

Laura: Oh, no, I'm sorry.

551

I think it's Coddle and Callie having

552

Xhafer: Yes, yes, yes.

553

Laura: so.

554

Xhafer: So ca, so Kelly has not

been able to sleep since the Nebula

555

Laura: Okay,

556

Xhafer: something is wrong and

she knows something is wrong, but

557

she doesn't know what is wrong.

558

Laura: probably 2-year-old

559

Xhafer: Tyro.

560

Yeah.

561

Laura: vibes is rubbing

562

Xhafer: Yeah.

563

Laura: Okay.

564

Xhafer: God.

565

She says, she says one of the

most depressing things here, and I

566

wanna talk about it for a minute,

because we have to talk about.

567

Nikki Klein of the real world

at this moment in time as well.

568

Laura: Uh

569

Xhafer: Uh, so she says, coddle

asks if Tiro has laid hands

570

on her, and she says, no.

571

The fracked up thing as I wish

he would because then I knew

572

who was feeling something and

573

Laura: So she can feel something

574

Xhafer: yeah, I don't wanna get

too far into it, but this is.

575

Super sad for the characters,

but also the actress, if you were

576

unaware, was already in the nex.

577

Im cult at this point.

578

Laura: Okay.

579

Okay.

580

Xhafer: Which is a, like

a sex trafficking cult.

581

There's a whole thing.

582

It's, I mean, she is not

in prison at this time.

583

I believe she was for a bit.

584

Um.

585

Laura: I read that.

586

I've tried not to read too

much about her or Grace Park,

587

Xhafer: well, Grace Park

has renounced everything.

588

Nikki Klein is out here tweeting that the

founder of the cult needs to get freed

589

Laura: I

590

Xhafer: and like going on right wing

podcasts and stuff to talk about it.

591

Laura: Oh, no.

592

Xhafer: Yeah.

593

Is bad add.

594

Laura: I'm glad this rabbit

hole is forbidden to me.

595

Xhafer: don't, yeah, don't, don't

dig around in it because all

596

it's gonna do is make you sad.

597

Um, they, they did, I mean, I have not

read a ton about it but I know that like,

598

there's, like traffic human trafficking,

they're, they're branding people.

599

Like it is, it is out of fucking control.

600

So knowing that she was mixed up, it.

601

In that for, I think she, for at least

like two years at the point at time of

602

filming at this point, give or take,

without like looking up exact dates just

603

as just I just like, I empathize so hard.

604

It's not like, oh God, I wish

someone was there for you right now.

605

Laura: Yeah.

606

Yeah.

607

Xhafer: Help you

608

Laura: Mm-hmm.

609

Xhafer: do this to your life, but.

610

Laura: Yeah, the, this whole

actress has always made me feel

611

weird because of that whole thing.

612

Xhafer: Yeah.

613

Laura: I guess I have to deal

with that super much anymore.

614

But,

615

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

616

Laura: Back on Demetrius Carrot

is painting on her walls.

617

Xhafer: Yep.

618

Andrews tries to talk to her

and she's terrible to him.

619

Laura: Mm-hmm.

620

Xhafer: She tries to fill the void

caused by her depression with that.

621

Laura: Yeah.

622

After she tells him that she

married him, 'cause it was easy,

623

Xhafer: Yeah.

624

Oh God.

625

I,

626

Laura: and she like goads

him into a sex fight.

627

That's how she gets the

628

Xhafer: uh,

629

Laura: okay.

630

Xhafer: hate Ed.

631

Laura: I hate it too.

632

but after she's, she's a

little like confused and she's

633

like, were we really married?

634

Anders?

635

Like, I need you to tell me that.

636

Xhafer: yeah.

637

She says like, I'm not the same

person you were married to.

638

And she says it in a way

that's just like, I've changed.

639

But there's also the

whole added layer of like.

640

Her dying and coming back where it's

all like that fucks with things too.

641

And

642

Laura: Yeah.

643

Xhafer: you know, she talks about

the perception of time for her

644

being that she was gone for a

couple of hours and not months.

645

But the more time that passes and the

more distant everything feels, it's almost

646

like that time is getting, at least the

void of that time is getting filled in,

647

Laura: Mm-hmm.

648

Xhafer: which is a whole other thing too.

649

I mean, Kira is not okay.

650

She would literally chase a planet

through all of space with no chance of

651

fighting it, rather than go to therapy.

652

Laura: Yes.

653

Mm-hmm.

654

She's definitely in like a

dissociation from herself.

655

She's uh, says her body

feels alien to her.

656

Nothing feels real, and I feel like

her saying these things is supposed

657

to lead me to believe she's a asylum,

658

Xhafer: Hmm.

659

Laura: but I still don't.

660

We shall see.

661

But yeah, she's telling him all

this and she's like, Hey, that

662

doesn't seem crazy, does it, Anders?

663

And he quite notably cannot answer

664

Xhafer: Yeah.

665

It's like uh, pass.

666

I'm gonna, I'm gonna pass.

667

Yeah.

668

Laura: Yeah.

669

On the base.

670

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

671

Laura: Caval is disagreeing with the

others, but he's agreeing to their germs.

672

Xhafer: everyone else

voted to unbox, Deanna.

673

Laura: mm-hmm.

674

Xhafer: gonna go to a data center or

something and uh, be there to talk

675

to her as she begins resurrecting.

676

Laura: Yeah, the sixes can go and do

677

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

678

Hmm.

679

Laura: think you should.

680

I think you should insist

some cavel come with you.

681

Six.

682

I think you should insist

683

Xhafer: Hmm.

684

Over at the core meeting, Rosalyn

refuses to discuss the Demetrius mission.

685

Lee saves Rosalyn, but

she's all like, nah.

686

So he starts a fucking fire on the table.

687

Laura: Yes.

688

I mean, he comes in with this

graceful like non-answer of,

689

wouldn't it be fair to say that we

should explore all routes to earth?

690

Xhafer: Yeah.

691

Laura: Sure.

692

And she says, like the actual

words, I don't need your help.

693

Xhafer: Yeah.

694

Laura: so then he wants to know about

these special tribunals which I guess is

695

the thing that was in that confidential

folder executive order, one 12.

696

Xhafer: this sounds,

697

Laura: not a re not a thing yet.

698

It was a draft, I guess.

699

Xhafer: what Rosalyn says.

700

But also this sounds like the exact thing

that Zurich did with executive order.

701

Laura: Yeah.

702

What, what

703

Xhafer: I.

704

Laura: what exactly is in it?

705

He says that

706

Xhafer: It is like s

707

Laura: a a concentration of power

if we have these special tribunals

708

Xhafer: it's, she gets, she appoints

some judges and the judges are

709

secrets and they're gonna conduct

secret tribunals that have like

710

judge jury execution or stuff.

711

Laura: okay.

712

That's exactly what Zurich did.

713

And he's objecting to it,

714

Xhafer: yeah,

715

Laura: Huh?

716

Xhafer: yeah.

717

Laura: Well, that's maybe some

self-awareness of like, yeah,

718

I shouldn't have done that.

719

I don't know.

720

Xhafer: I mean, and he even was all like,

I'm doing this so that she can't, because

721

this will destroy her on the inside,

722

Laura: Mm-hmm.

723

Xhafer: it, we need to get rid of these

fucking traitors before we go any farther.

724

Laura: Right.

725

Xhafer: So.

726

Laura: Hmm.

727

But this is, it.

728

It's, it's definitely just,

it, it's not in policy.

729

It's, it's a draft.

730

It's not been.

731

And acted yet because

732

Xhafer: Yeah,

733

Laura: the, the, this quorum

would know about that, right?

734

If an executive order had been issued.

735

Xhafer: I would think,

736

Laura: Yeah.

737

Xhafer: I don't know how executive

orders work in the colonial government.

738

Laura: I mean, I'm

realizing the same, yeah.

739

Xhafer: They didn't give us a civics

textbook with this TV show, so.

740

Laura: I'm just super imposing what I

think I know about my own government

741

Xhafer: Hmm.

742

Uh,

743

Laura: Hmm.

744

Hmm.

745

Xhafer: uh,

746

Laura: Think I know.

747

Let me a uh, emphasize that.

748

Xhafer: Anyways,

749

Laura: Okay.

750

Xhafer: the Bay Stars jump.

751

Yeah.

752

And they're like, Hey, the

resurrection ship didn't jump with us.

753

And they're just like

754

Laura: oh.

755

Xhafer: Botany Bay.

756

Caval Bay stars.

757

Fire on the sixes, Sharon's

and Leo bins, bay stars.

758

Laura: Yeah.

759

Xhafer: boomer is like, I feel bad.

760

And Cavel is all like, I'm evil.

761

Laura: wait a second.

762

The way we said that

the, the sixes, Sharon's

763

Xhafer: he opens.

764

Laura: text

765

Xhafer: Yeah.

766

Laura: the, please tell me that Leo

bins don't have their own Bay Star.

767

'cause that would be a

fucking terrible place to

768

Xhafer: God.

769

Can you imagine what a

mess that base star is

770

Laura: It's gotta be trashed, right?

771

Xhafer: Doral to clean the bathrooms

like and pick everything up?

772

'cause you can't tell me that Doral is

not OCD and cleans fucking everything

773

that isn't self-cleaning in that Bay Star.

774

And it's just like, there's no way that

the bins Bay Star is a fucking sty.

775

It is the.

776

I started,

777

Laura: all the

778

Xhafer: you know what?

779

I recently finally have started watching.

780

It's always sunny in Philadelphia.

781

That Bay Stars Charlie's apartment.

782

Laura: Okay.

783

Yeah.

784

Xhafer: Yeah.

785

Laura: I do not want bins

to have their own base star.

786

They need to at least have like a

six around to make them feel bad

787

about themselves if they try to,

788

Xhafer: Yeah.

789

Laura: not take care of

the physical space hygiene.

790

Yeah, but Cavel says that uh, don't worry.

791

These, these robots don't have any souls.

792

Xhafer: Yeah, they're

793

Laura: nothing to

794

Xhafer: fine.

795

Probably Cali digs for pills, but finds

a note with a time and a location.

796

Did you catch, did you catch what

Weapons Locker number it was.

797

Laura: I sure did.

798

We gotta go to Weapons Locker 1701 D.

799

She sure was looking through a lot of

pill bottles before she found that note.

800

Xhafer: Yeah.

801

Not good.

802

Various colored pills we see.

803

Laura: Uhhuh.

804

I'm wondering, it can't be that all

of these came from Coddle, right?

805

Xhafer: That would be my expectation.

806

Laura: Yeah.

807

But she follows them like she's a

few steps behind Tori Tiro and Ty.

808

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

809

Laura: and she crawls like

into the wall space outside the

810

weapons locker to observe them.

811

Xhafer: Yeah, she gets into Access

Hatch and here's their meeting and finds

812

out that the three of them are Cylons.

813

Laura: Yeah, she gets everything.

814

Like Ty also berating 2-year-old

that s hating wife better not

815

find out about them or something.

816

Xhafer: Yeah, very specifically.

817

It would be terrible if Cali of everyone

found out you Tyrell, RA cylon like,

818

Laura: yeah.

819

It's like that explicit.

820

Xhafer: like it's the conversation

that like someone hopes, they overhear

821

when they get someone to wear a wire.

822

Laura: Mm-hmm.

823

And it's all in Weapons Locker 1701

824

Xhafer: Yep.

825

Laura: Yeah.

826

No.

827

I almost thought for a second when

we're having this conversation that

828

we're gonna do some stuff with like.

829

Callie, because we had the

conversation earlier with Doc Coddle

830

that like, oh, Callie's paranoia

831

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

832

Laura: up and she's gonna like

question that reality for a few

833

episodes of like, am I just on

so many drugs and fucking high?

834

Or is this a real thing?

835

But no, I think we're gonna

just go ahead and resolve this

836

Xhafer: Yep.

837

No, not gonna, not gonna do

anything else with this one.

838

She crawls out and runs out of

there before they get leave.

839

Tori notices the outta place panel.

840

She runs back to her quarters

and Teel isn't far behind and

841

she tries to hold it together.

842

And then

843

Laura: Tyrell.

844

Tyrell, this is so bad.

845

Xhafer: they used like the sound

to make him sound like he's

846

underwater or very far away.

847

Laura: I thought they were

making him sound robotic.

848

Xhafer: true.

849

True.

850

Yeah.

851

Laura: Yeah.

852

It's all, you know, a very far away

robot that promises he's not having

853

an affair and does the thing where he

proposes having another baby to fix

854

Xhafer: Yeah, famously

babies always fix marriages.

855

So solid plan no notes.

856

Uh, But when she hears it,

she gives him the wrench.

857

Clue style.

858

Laura: Yeah.

859

ass wrench to the face.

860

Xhafer: Yep.

861

She grabs his keys, Nikki, and leaves.

862

She looks distant despondent

as she walks to the hangar Bay.

863

She goes to a Viper launch.

864

We see her stare out into space for a

minute before putting in the override

865

key, which is when Tory rolls in.

866

Laura: Yeah, Tori being very

sympathetic and convincing here.

867

Please don't do

868

Xhafer: don't kill yourself.

869

Don't kill Nikki.

870

Kill me.

871

Laura: me even.

872

Yeah, just don't do this

to yourself and your baby.

873

But Kelly's like screaming

that Tyrell used her.

874

Xhafer: Yeah.

875

Laura: And Tori says that,

Hey, none of us knew.

876

He didn't, he didn't use you.

877

He didn't even know what he was like.

878

It all just, it just happened.

879

And we're not evil.

880

We're just scared and confused as you are.

881

But you don't wanna do this to your son.

882

And she does that thing where we're

gonna get through this together and

883

she's so close to her and she's hugging

884

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

885

Laura: And then Callie Hands

Nikki to her, or she takes Nikki

886

Xhafer: Yeah.

887

Laura: That's probably a better way to put

888

Xhafer: The second Nikki

is out of Callie's hands.

889

Tori knocks Callie out.

890

Just like super strength

throws her across the room.

891

Laura: yeah

892

Xhafer: Callie wakes up just in

time to see herself get airlock.

893

Laura: yeah.

894

She's like holding Nikki's blanket

still, like Nikki's blanket came

895

off and she's got that with her,

Tori just blows her out the airlock.

896

Xhafer: We get this shot, this

like lingering shot of her

897

frozen and bloated in space.

898

Laura: Yeah,

899

it's pretty

900

Xhafer: Yeah.

901

And then the episode ends with a

dama sitting with Tyrell in silence.

902

Laura: Yeah.

903

Yeah.

904

Xhafer: No words, no

music, just two of them.

905

Laura: It's rough.

906

Xhafer: Yeah.

907

Laura: real rough.

908

And the whole thing.

909

Super dark.

910

Um,

911

A question

912

Xhafer: yeah.

913

Laura: if it's appropriate to go ahead and

914

Xhafer: I mean, you can ask.

915

It might not be appropriate to answer.

916

I.

917

Laura: something.

918

Seems like the.

919

The understanding of the Final Five, or at

least these Fantastic four that we have.

920

No, wait, we called them

the fuck around four.

921

That's

922

Xhafer: Yeah.

923

Laura: The fuck around four is not the

same as the original seven because, and

924

this didn't make a lot of sense to me.

925

I was thinking about it.

926

I can understand why Tori, maybe Tyrell.

927

Mm, I'm not sure I can get behind Ty.

928

Don't seem to clock that like human Cy

Hybrid was important to the original seven

929

Xhafer: Yeah.

930

Laura: none of them has, none of them

has thought about Nikki, like, given

931

Nikki a second thought that we know of.

932

But Anders was definitely there and

knows about the farms, so he should

933

have known like, Hey, that's important.

934

And been like, huh, what

should we think about Nikki?

935

Like should we

936

Xhafer: Well, Anders is an idiot.

937

Laura: Right,

938

Xhafer: you've got that.

939

It wasn't convenient to the plot

for Anders to remember that stuff

940

Laura: right.

941

But I feel like Ty should

have been briefed on

942

Xhafer: Probably has been.

943

Yeah.

944

Laura: experience and I feel like

945

Xhafer: Also then Ty knows,

and Hara has magic blurred.

946

Yeah.

947

Laura: Yeah, Tori sh Tori knows this

too though, and she probably knows about

948

the farm because she has such restricted

access for, to like the President's

949

Xhafer: staff.

950

Yeah.

951

Laura: She knows.

952

She knows a lot of what the

president knows, but nobody

953

has acknowledged it at all yet.

954

And this is the closest we

have is her taking Nikki, but.

955

We don't know that that's

an actual acknowledgement of

956

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

957

Laura: because it could just be like,

I need to get rid of her, but I'm not

958

gonna like blast Herold's son out there.

959

That'd be weird.

960

He would, he would lose his mind.

961

You know,

962

Xhafer: Yeah.

963

Laura: we don't know what Tori's

motivation in saving Nikki was.

964

If it was just material relation stuff

or actual, like the silo human hybrid is

965

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

966

Laura: I don't know.

967

that was a lingering thought

I had about all this.

968

I don't know if it's gonna get answered.

969

And fair's making a version of the face.

970

Xhafer: you are right to notice that

971

Laura: I,

972

Xhafer: they seem to be operating

differently than the other silo.

973

I

974

Laura: okay, I'll take that.

975

Xhafer: that.

976

All I'm gonna say about it.

977

Laura: his eyelids.

978

Xhafer: Yeah, I think that's all,

that's all I'm gonna say about it.

979

So

980

Laura: Hmm.

981

Xhafer: I'll reaffirm and validate your

feelings, but I won't explain to you

982

why I am reaffirming or validating them.

983

Laura: Good.

984

Good, good, good, good, good, good.

985

Okay.

986

Xhafer: Yeah.

987

So, yeah, heavy.

988

Laura: rate this one?

989

Xhafer: I mean, we don't you can

always give it your fuck this episode.

990

But I did warn you over text when

we were talking about it 'cause I

991

posted your response in spoiler chat.

992

Fair warning.

993

Laura: What response,

994

Xhafer: screenshot of our text thread.

995

Um.

996

Laura: oh, hang on.

997

Now I'm gonna have to go back through the

998

Xhafer: I, I, I, I scribbled out

the stuff where you were talking

999

about where you were going to be

and why we couldn't record, but

00:43:00,629 --> 00:43:01,189

Laura: Oh, okay.

00:43:02,414 --> 00:43:05,079

Xhafer: didn't, it didn't

dox you in our discord.

00:43:05,389 --> 00:43:07,219

But I did was like, yep.

00:43:07,399 --> 00:43:09,379

And that's only, you know,

it's like heavy episode.

00:43:09,379 --> 00:43:09,829

It's like, yep.

00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:12,349

And that's only the third

most depressing episode

00:43:12,614 --> 00:43:13,214

Laura: Oh, yes.

00:43:13,219 --> 00:43:13,519

That part.

00:43:13,669 --> 00:43:16,519

Xhafer: of the season, and

you're like third, most,

00:43:18,649 --> 00:43:20,269

third most.

00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:24,489

And then we actually talked about

it a little in there too about uh,

00:43:24,759 --> 00:43:27,429

we didn't really rank the other two.

00:43:28,059 --> 00:43:31,374

I think it depends on your personal

uh, your personal feelings on what

00:43:31,374 --> 00:43:33,534

the other two, the order of them.

00:43:33,534 --> 00:43:37,404

I don't think it's debatable

particularly what two moments.

00:43:37,404 --> 00:43:40,134

Those episodes rather,

I should say those are.

00:43:40,574 --> 00:43:42,088

But yeah,

00:43:42,574 --> 00:43:42,864

Laura: Yeah.

00:43:43,528 --> 00:43:44,818

Xhafer: so you might wanna save your fuck.

00:43:44,818 --> 00:43:46,888

This episode is what

that's all leading into.

00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:49,209

Laura: I'm going to propose something.

00:43:49,393 --> 00:43:49,933

Xhafer: Go for it.

00:43:50,364 --> 00:43:52,794

Laura: I didn't fuck

an episode last season.

00:43:52,873 --> 00:43:53,473

Xhafer: you want two?

00:43:54,174 --> 00:43:55,794

Laura: I never fucked this episode.

00:43:55,794 --> 00:43:58,374

So can I go ahead and I'll

go ahead and fuck this

00:43:58,603 --> 00:43:58,993

Xhafer: Yeah,

00:43:59,004 --> 00:44:00,504

Laura: then I'll still

have one in the chamber.

00:44:00,703 --> 00:44:01,903

Xhafer: that's fine.

00:44:02,174 --> 00:44:04,634

'Cause you're probably

gonna use it prematurely.

00:44:04,634 --> 00:44:04,694

So.

00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:06,280

Laura: oh.

00:44:11,099 --> 00:44:13,569

Xhafer: Anyways yeah, no, go

ahead and fuck this episode.

00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:14,199

Um,

00:44:15,830 --> 00:44:16,310

Laura: Yeah.

00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,669

Xhafer: it's fucking heavy.

00:44:19,179 --> 00:44:22,539

Um, it's an important episode.

00:44:22,939 --> 00:44:28,639

Um, it does some obvious things and

it also does some less obvious things

00:44:29,299 --> 00:44:32,239

and some of the less obvious stuff.

00:44:32,959 --> 00:44:38,091

In rewatch mode, I can appreciate, I can't

talk about it, but I can appreciate it.

00:44:38,683 --> 00:44:40,093

so I don't know.

00:44:40,093 --> 00:44:44,143

I, I don't like, I mean,

this is not an episode.

00:44:44,143 --> 00:44:45,133

I would just go back and rewatch,

00:44:46,839 --> 00:44:47,439

Laura: Nah.

00:44:47,533 --> 00:44:49,813

Xhafer: nah, nah.

00:44:49,813 --> 00:44:49,843

Ah.

00:44:51,039 --> 00:44:56,767

Laura: It's just so sad and

it's not, I don't know how to

00:44:56,767 --> 00:44:59,107

describe the sadness of it.

00:45:00,067 --> 00:45:06,886

one of those things when like you kind

of watch a friend spiral or something.

00:45:08,350 --> 00:45:08,550

Xhafer: Yeah.

00:45:09,031 --> 00:45:12,211

Laura: Bad started happening to them

and you're like, man, this is just sad.

00:45:12,211 --> 00:45:13,381

I can't do anything.

00:45:13,381 --> 00:45:14,101

It's sad.

00:45:14,551 --> 00:45:16,681

It feels like that, you know,

00:45:17,135 --> 00:45:17,555

Xhafer: Mm-hmm.

00:45:18,426 --> 00:45:21,576

Laura: it's a, it is the train wreck

of it that like the whole episode

00:45:21,576 --> 00:45:25,806

you're watching and you're like, this

is gonna go badly, and then it does,

00:45:25,806 --> 00:45:27,941

and you're like, well, there it went.

00:45:28,435 --> 00:45:28,795

Xhafer: Yeah.

00:45:29,904 --> 00:45:33,114

Laura: I have a feeling there's gonna be

a fucking gaas train wreck coming, though.

00:45:33,114 --> 00:45:37,194

That's gonna be, that's gonna

make me angry instead of sad.

00:45:37,434 --> 00:45:37,734

So,

00:45:38,728 --> 00:45:39,178

Xhafer: Yeah.

00:45:39,238 --> 00:45:39,838

I mean.

00:45:40,916 --> 00:45:42,326

That's pretty much a guarantee.

00:45:43,376 --> 00:45:43,916

Maybe it'll be.

00:45:43,916 --> 00:45:44,696

Next episode.

00:45:44,696 --> 00:45:49,076

We've got season four,

episode four, escape velocity.

00:45:49,076 --> 00:45:50,276

Oh, I never put a number on it.

00:45:50,386 --> 00:45:52,966

Six out of 12.

00:45:53,116 --> 00:45:53,506

Sure.

00:45:53,802 --> 00:45:54,092

Laura: Okay.

00:45:54,166 --> 00:45:57,016

Xhafer: Um, season four,

episode four, escape Velocity.

00:45:57,790 --> 00:46:01,840

Baltar sets off a debate on

religious freedom when he promotes

00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,880

his belief in a single God.

00:46:04,787 --> 00:46:05,297

Laura: Okay.

00:46:08,061 --> 00:46:10,581

Xhafer: That's all we get.

00:46:12,017 --> 00:46:13,607

Laura: I'm still confused

00:46:14,241 --> 00:46:14,541

Xhafer: Okay.

00:46:15,257 --> 00:46:18,827

Laura: of whether Baltar believes

in the single God or not, but maybe

00:46:18,827 --> 00:46:20,267

we'll talk about that next time.

00:46:20,361 --> 00:46:22,821

Xhafer: I mean, it seems like it'd be

a good episode to talk about it during.

00:46:23,807 --> 00:46:23,927

Laura: Yeah

00:46:24,721 --> 00:46:27,601

Xhafer: but before we get to that

next week, we should say thank

00:46:27,601 --> 00:46:30,871

you this week to Jeremy Siegel.

00:46:31,411 --> 00:46:32,011

Jeremy.

00:46:32,671 --> 00:46:34,081

Hey, how you doing?

00:46:34,831 --> 00:46:36,511

Thanks so much for

giving us a theme music.

00:46:36,871 --> 00:46:38,071

We appreciate the hell out of it.

00:46:38,071 --> 00:46:41,911

Find more Jeremy's work at Jeremy

Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com.

00:46:42,453 --> 00:46:44,913

Laura: and thanks to angry

Duck time machine on Instagram

00:46:44,913 --> 00:46:46,048

for our podcast artwork.

00:46:46,478 --> 00:46:50,218

Xhafer: Aaron, thanks so much for

editing this podcast and, making us

00:46:50,218 --> 00:46:56,878

sound intelligent when we stall and

really start to drag on sentences, you

00:46:56,878 --> 00:47:02,848

can go in and clean that up so that we

sound coherent instead of sounding like

00:47:02,938 --> 00:47:10,138

this, which we probably do more than

we actually do, but I wouldn't know

00:47:10,138 --> 00:47:11,848

because I don't listen to this podcast.

00:47:13,358 --> 00:47:16,778

Laura: I was thinking more thanks

for like fixing the 10 minute

00:47:16,838 --> 00:47:18,368

descrip error or whatever we

00:47:18,508 --> 00:47:22,348

Xhafer: Oh yeah, we did have a terrible 10

minute recording drop to script error that

00:47:22,348 --> 00:47:24,508

hopefully we still have the audio from.

00:47:24,958 --> 00:47:26,668

Uh, we will see.

00:47:27,031 --> 00:47:27,931

Laura: I'll have him check

00:47:28,011 --> 00:47:28,521

Xhafer: Yeah.

00:47:29,661 --> 00:47:31,142

Uh, Thanks again.

00:47:31,332 --> 00:47:31,722

Laura: Yeah.

00:47:32,157 --> 00:47:32,277

Xhafer: I.

00:47:32,292 --> 00:47:34,032

Laura: Thanks uh, listener

for being here with us.

00:47:34,782 --> 00:47:38,292

This is a tough episode and I

have a feeling things are gonna

00:47:38,352 --> 00:47:39,792

only get more exciting from here.

00:47:39,792 --> 00:47:42,552

So if you wanna talk about it,

come on down to the Discord.

00:47:42,862 --> 00:47:47,792

Xhafer: Yeah, you'll see, you'll see

things like me posting text messages

00:47:48,302 --> 00:47:49,868

weeks before the episode airs.

00:47:49,898 --> 00:47:53,138

Um, yeah, no, the discords a great time.

00:47:53,218 --> 00:47:57,828

Uh, You can get us on Blue

Sky at w Hoppa her pod.

00:47:58,533 --> 00:48:01,233

Where you can find the rest

of our podcasts as well.

00:48:01,548 --> 00:48:02,148

Laura: Yeah.

00:48:02,238 --> 00:48:03,078

Xhafer: We'll see you next week.

00:48:03,078 --> 00:48:03,468

Internet.

00:48:03,819 --> 00:48:04,539

Laura: Bye.