Corey and Nathan discuss B.C.'s overdose app, Connect by Lifeguard.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dev.lifeguard&hl=en

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Welcome everybody to a recovery machine.

I'm Nathan joined, as always by my co-host.

Corey, how are you doing, Corey?

Hey, Nathan.

I'm pretty good.

It's Friday afternoon, I believe.

Little bit.

I think it's congested.

A little bit tired.

Mm-hmm.

But looking forward to chatting with you about a couple of things and uh, kind

of getting back to it for the new year.

But we're both feeling a little bit rough.

There's a lot of bugs going.

There is.

Yeah.

And I had a pretty busy day and, uh, had a long drive involved in there too.

But yeah, it, uh, it's good to kind of get set up here again and, uh,

look at some of the news articles and kind of take a look at some

things we haven't looked at before.

And yeah, maybe talk a little bit of.

drug related or drug policy related philosophy, that kind of thing.

Mm-hmm.

. But we'll see how far we get, I guess.

Yeah.

Uh, we wanted to start with, uh, something that you had mentioned.

Was it last night or a couple days ago?

Yeah, a couple of days ago.

This came up in my, actually, it was my credit to my sister Kate for, for passing

this on to me, uh, credit where it.

It's the, uh, the Connect app.

This is a app that was put forward by the, it sounds like it was a collaboration

between the provincial government, the Minister, ministry of Mental Health and

Addictions, provincial Health Services Agency, and I was gonna say BC Ambulance

Service, or e you know, provincial, e h s.

So there's a, a, a collaboration that is, that has gone down to make

this app for drug users as sort of a one-stop, one-stop shop for services

and also for some potential lifesaving, um, features in there as well.

So,

Right.

Yeah.

I, I downloaded it to take a look, and I noticed there's quite a few

different things going on in there.

It's a, I guess, a, an app that was designed in BC in part by Lifeguard

Digital Health, and then, uh, the other services you mentioned there.

Mm-hmm.

. , can you explain to people kind of the basics of how, how it works?

Because there's a few of these apps out here, but I think this

one is sort of four BC right?

It's four bc.

It's very straightforward.

So first of all, we are not, this is not a, uh, a funded or

sponsored conversation we're having.

It's just in the news, and it applies to the whole, um, harbor harm

reduction conversation in our province.

So the app is pretty straight.

. It features a couple of like one-touch resources if you are

in a crisis or need to have a conversation about your mental health.

Um, there's a suicide hotline, like one touch and it connects

you to the suicide hotline.

And then also has some, some information about where to find Naloxone, um,

where to find counseling resources, um, where to find other addiction and

mental health supports in your area.

You can, you know, search by area within the province and.

Probably the most lifesaving or important feature of the app is the the use alone

timer First, were you familiar with that term before seeing this app, Nathan?

The use alone timer.

No, I, I, I didn't know anything about it.

And, uh, it's, I mean, it's a clever idea for sure.

Mm-hmm.

, basically you alert the app that you're going to be using alone.

Mm-hmm.

, and you take a dose of whatever you're.

Drug of choice is, and then I think a timer starts, so you have 50 seconds,

I believe it is, with this one to, uh, before an alarm goes off, and

that gets increasingly louder, uh, until I think the 75 second mark.

And if you haven't acknowledged the app by that time, then it automatically

places a text to voice called to 9 1 1.

Mm-hmm.

It's a good idea, right?

I mean, uh, whoever came up with that, it's a, it, it's a very straightforward

way of potentially saving some lives and it looks like it has saved some lives.

I got, uh, I just quickly looked online there and it said, uh, since

May, 2022, it's been credited with 45 lives saved, just this little.

This particular app here.

So

yeah,

that's significant.

And if you think about it, how, you know, what would be more interesting

and more significant is just how many people are actually having close calls

or maybe they are just being maybe more aware of, of how they, they practice

their drug use in, in terms of like how they feel immediately after.

Or maybe they, it's kind of giving them a nudge to not.

alone.

Mm-hmm.

, um, and changing some of the, the behavior there.

So there is the, there, to me, the que the, the question is like, depending

on your method of delivery, it'll have a different, different speed of

onset, the action of the, of the drug.

Right?

So you can't extend that timer if you're feeling okay, or you, you're,

maybe you're wondering if you're feeling okay, you can extend it.

I think another minute and it will continue on before ambulance is

called.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean it, just looking at it, I mean, there is, there's a whole, I don't know,

I think I, I saw maybe just on the, on the Google Play site there looked like

there's maybe eight or 10 of these that are, that are being used actively around

the world under different names, but they all seem to be designed with IV use.

in mind, it would be very difficult to use.

I think if it was in the case of somebody who's maybe using something

like Hydromorph recreationally, only they're doing it either

intranasally or um, orally.

Mm-hmm.

and there's, I mean, I've been witness to it, overdose when it was a person

who was using it for a migraine and just was to, they were also taking

benzodiazepines and it ended up being a situation where they lost track of their.

in that case, obviously a timer's not gonna really help.

I think most of these are designed with, uh, probably, uh, fentanyl would

be the, the target that they're Yeah.

Focused on.

And IV fentanyl would be the, the route.

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, you know, there's also instructions on here for C P R, there's

instructions on here for Naloxone.

Mm-hmm.

, there's some, you know, quick sort of reference guide of dos

and don'ts if you encounter.

So it's a, it's a, a cool idea for family members or people who

are living with individuals who use fentanyl or, or any kind of,

um, opioid, recreationally, family members, roommates, that kind of thing.

Yeah, it might even be, you know, I was talking with somebody

just a couple days ago about how many high profile opiate overdose deaths

have been these people that it was really shocking to the community

and nobody knew that this individual had a, uh, chronic opioid habit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not even their family, you know?

And, I've been seeing that.

I mean, I remember the first one.

There was a, I'm not gonna say who, but it was a high profile, uh, guy in,

in cams there that was a real shock to the community because he just was

a, uh, he was a, a, a really, uh, prominent figure and, and well liked.

And he, you know, he suit and tie every day type of guy.

and, uh, he was, you know, this was early on in the, uh, I think around 2017, 2016

or whatever, but his family was shocked.

But this had been, you know, once they figured out what was going on, it

had been going on for quite a while.

And I, you know, obviously because of, uh, Especially if you've got a

high profile job, it's in your best interest to keep that under wraps.

Mm-hmm.

. And unfortunately, that of course, puts you at risk.

So maybe the thing is, everybody should be a little more aware, ever since I had that

experience where, uh, I, I just about lost a friend and thank God the, the ambulance

was there, uh, able to get their time.

But now I always have a Naloxone kit wherever I, you know, I, I keep it at

home and I try and bring it with me too.

I would encourage everybody at this point to, you know, try

and at least have a kid at home.

You know, you don't know, like, it could be you're having company over and all of

a sudden you've got somebody who's mm-hmm.

, you know, know the signs too, because I like, are you familiar

with the term death rattle?

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

That is a, a, a very strange sound, a gurgling sound that people make when

they're starting to b Basically, the respiratory system is shutting down.

, and you'll know it when you hear it, but it's, I had even been exposed to, um, I,

I, I believe we watched some sort of video on it, uh, back in, uh, university and

it still took me like at least a minute.

I was like, it triggered something in me, but I was like, what is that?

And cuz uh, this person was a couple rooms over for, from where I was and I couldn't.

I sounded weird, but it didn't trigger anything.

And then finally after about a minute it snapped and I was like,

holy shit, that's a death rattle.

And I run out there and you know, blue lips and everything.

Right.

Um, so just, you know, the fact that this app has that kind of information

on there, what to look out for, um, I think we're at the point here where,

you know, we've lost enough people and.

, everybody is fairly aware that it's not just the stereotypical person on

the street, the addict person box, that they keep the idea of somebody

who's got that kind of problem in.

Yeah, but we know that's not true.

So.

I would encourage everybody to at least kind of, you know, spend, I

don't know, a minute, go online, look at, uh, look at what you can

do and, uh, get a lot if you can.

Even if you check out this app, actually, I think it's got information

for how to get, uh, Naloxone kits for your business, how to get Naloxone.

Yeah.

Kit sent to you.

Um, so yeah, lots of information there.

The

other thought I was just having, Nathan, was that we were talking right

before we started to record about, you know, is, is the fact that it requires a

cell phone with data and that can download apps and how much of a barrier is that?

And, and we don't know how much of the population has, has a cell phone

and how much of the population of the people experiencing homelessness,

how many of of them have cell phones, presumably, some do, presumably some.

But I, I wonder if there's a, an could be an ability and, and for any of our

listeners who are of an engineering mindset or something like that, is

there a way to that It could be like a, you know, the Lifelines or life alert

that you see, um, you know, seniors wearing at home where you could hit a

button or where it could be just like a, a little thing you wear around your

neck where you hit a, like, like the app where, you know, you take your

dose and you press start, and if you haven't canceled it in a minute, it, it.

Trigger a call to eh hs.

I wonder if that could be simplified out of an app on a, on a

smartphone into just like a little, little disc that you wear around

your neck.

It should be able to, because you don't need data for an emergency call.

No, and I don't know, like remember back in the nineties we used to have pagers and

that technology is, uh, pretty straightforward, very cheap,

and probably tiny at this point.

So you'd think you could, you could set up something like that

just based on, uh, like, uh, the, the Life Alert system for seniors.

Why can't you do that?

Press the thi, you know, press a button, take your dose, and

then it's gonna go off again.

Same as this, if you don't hit it again.

Same story.

Yeah, that's an interesting point because, I don't see, like you would

expect with the number of people that are using drugs in this province.

Uh, well, it's the number of people using drugs all over

the world at any given time.

But the, but the number of people in danger from toxic drugs, uh,

is higher than it's ever been before in this province anyway.

So you'd think there'd be more people that have downloaded this, but it could

be that people aren't aware of the good, uh, good Samaritan Act either.

, and if you're not aware of that, act, it, it's basically something

that they came up with a while ago.

I think it was earlier on in the drug crisis.

And, uh, it was because people were dying because they're afraid of

police showing up and, uh, you know, possession charges and stuff like that.

So they passed an act called the Good Samaritan Act that prevents

you from any legal repercussions associated with a medical emergency.

Mm-hmm.

secondary to drug use.

So it's good to know because I, I think there's probably lots of young

people out there who, you know, would be hesitant to, to make that call.

Especially.

Yeah.

Well even, uh, I've seen young people nearly die because they didn't want their

parents to find out, let alone the police.

Yeah, and I mean the, the, you, you do have to put in the information here.

Like you're, there is a obvious compromise to privacy just by virtue of the fact that

if you don't, don't hit cancel on the, on the timer that eh HS is gonna be called.

But to me, I don't think that should be a, should be a, a barrier to people using it.

Well, it's a triage thing, right?

Yeah.

I mean, Jesus here we're supposed to be decriminalized now.

We'll have to take a look at the date, but by the end of this month, d crim

is supposed to be here in BC and if we do have real decrim of, uh, all

possession of, uh, small quantities of drugs across the board, then

it shouldn't be a problem anyways.

But yeah, unless, of course you're sitting there with five kilos of cocaine or

whatever, but yeah, I don't know if the Good Samaritan Act would protect you then.

No

. Corey: Well, this is good.

I, I think it's a step in the right direct.

It doesn't cover all of the needed bases by any means, but it is a piece

and I, you know, I don't wanna knock it for, I don't wanna knock it for the

fact that it doesn't cover all of the bases that we need in our province,

but it is a good, it is a good step.

And if it's something that's, if it's saved 43 lives already,

that's, that's quite remarkable.

Mm-hmm.

, that's 43.

43 people with loved ones and with potential and with all.

other things going on and, and as we've discussed, like the massive

ripple effect of a loss like that.

Um, so good on them for putting something like this out.

Yeah,

absolutely.

If it saved one life, it was worth putting together.

Yep.

Yeah, we just wanted to mention that, just to give them a boost.

So we'll leave it at that and, uh, if you guys have any questions or comments

that you wanna make about that, or maybe you've got information that,

uh, I mean, we took a cursory look at it, but we didn't go crazy on it, so.

If there's other things that, uh, maybe stats or information that you'd

like to add, please email us and, uh, we'd be happy to hear from you.