In this episode of The Last 10%, Dallas Burnett interviews Jeff “Bones” Bonner, a former Marine Corps combat fighter pilot and squadron commander, current airline captain, Harvard-trained performance strategist, and creator of the Debrief Advantage system. Bonner shares how childhood inspiration and a non-linear path led him to aviation, combat missions after 9/11 in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the mindset shift sparked by the question, “What if I’m not good enough?” He explains how fighter aviation’s structured debrief culture focuses on “be better tomorrow,” emphasizing that perspective precedes performance and improvement follows adjustment. Bonner outlines his five-step GREAT debrief model and stresses keeping debriefs simple, timely, and repeatable to build habits and drive 1% daily gains.

Learn more at www.debriefadvantage.com/start

Hey everybody.

We're talking to Jeff Bones Bonner today.

What an amazing guy He is a former combat fighter pilot and squadron commander,

Harvard trained performance strategist, current airline captain, and the

creator of the debrief Advantage system has some incredible stories from high

stakes missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Were debriefing turned raw experience into growth.

Plus he's a great new friend of mine.

You don't want to miss this incredible conversation.

Welcome to the last 10%.

Your host, Dallas Burnett, dives into incredible conversations that

will inspire you to finish well.

And finish strong, strong.

Listen as guests share their journeys and valuable advice on living in the last 10%.

If you are a leader, a coach, a business owner, or someone looking to

level up, you are in the right place.

Remember, you can give 90% effort and make it a long way, but it's finding

out how to unlock the last 10%.

That makes all the difference in your life, your relationships, and your work.

Now, here's Dallas.

Welcome, welcome, welcome.

I am Dallas Burnett, sitting in my 1905 Koch Brothers

Barber chair in Thrive Studios.

But more importantly, today we have a great guest, Harvard trained

performance strategist, author of The Daily Debrief, creator of the Debrief

Advantage, former Combat Fighter pilot, now flying as an airline captain.

Welcome to the show, Jeff.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Thank you very much, Dallas.

It's great to be here with you.

Man, I tell you, I'm kind of jealous 'cause when I was growing

up, the one thing, I mean, I grew up in the eighties, the man top guns there.

And I mean, you know, you just had these dreams of being a fighter pilot.

So As a kid.

I always wanted to be a fighter pilot, was going to go to the.

Air Force Academy and just do the whole thing, man.

And it didn't work out.

And I was like always like, man, what the dream that could have been.

But then when I was 40, I found out I was colorblind.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Ha.

I was out, I was done, I was done before I got started.

So it worked out.

But hey man.

tell us a little bit about you and how you got into flying and

Were you always inspired to be in the military and fly planes?

What was, what's your story?

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yeah.

That's great, Dallas.

Thanks again for, for having me.

And you know, a lot of it is exactly what you just mentioned right there with

the, you've made that reference to Top Gun and how many folks in our generation

got that, you know, saw that movie and was just like, that's exactly what I

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: And I was one of those.

I remember going, as a teenager with my dad, who, served in Vietnam

and, and has been an inspiration to me throughout my life.

From the military perspective, and I, I remember going to the

movie to see that for the first

Oh man.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I, and then, you know, the bug was kind of planted

and then air shows and blue angels

Oh wow.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: we were going, you know?

So yeah, I knew it a very early age, and I've been super blessed

to be able to pursue that passion.

For aviation throughout, throughout my life and, and now being blessed

to be able to share some of those lessons learned from aviation

to help others on their path.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

That's really awesome.

So how did you go from, all right, being inspired.

What was, I guess, what was the hardest thing about going from, you know, the

grind of the dream when you're, when you look back, getting from this dream as

a kid, you know, seeing the Blue Angels going to Top Gun, your dad's already

doing this thing, it's like military.

What was the hardest part for you to transition from that

and turn that dream into?

I'm strapping in and I'm taking off.

Like, what, what was that like?

Yeah,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yeah.

and a lot of it's.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: like all of us, right?

We, we set high, high, goals in our life and it's just, you know, kind

of a, it's not a straight line.

we achieve and then we have a setback, and then we achieve,

and then we have a setback.

And that was really my story as well.

I, I just had such a passion for wanting to fly jet.

Airplanes off of ships.

That

Longest

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: for the longest time for me, I thought

that past

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: was going to take me.

Through the Navy

I got

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: to college and

talking to

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: the Navy recruiter.

And at the time, in the early nineties, uh, the, the Navy was recruiting

from a perspective they wanted

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: engineering background for their, for their

pilots and their air crew.

And that wasn't me.

so I had to kind of try and find a different

That way.

That way was

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: through the Marine Corps and.

that's

where my

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: path led me.

wow

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: uh, it's been, other than marrying my wife, that's

been the blessing, the biggest

defense

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: decision

made.

Oh wow.

That's awesome.

That is awesome.

So now you have, you got to land on an aircraft carrier and, and do, uh, so

you have done that, even if you're not Navy, you can still land on an aircraft.

So what is that like?

Just take me through, 'cause I mean like that's just got to me.

That's got, I mean, it's automatic.

When you come in on a landing in a commercial jet, you know that you come

down, you're like, oh, that's a little bumpy, or That's smooth, whatever.

I can't imagine the, how it feels to land.

It looks like on a, on a little, a penny in the ocean.

You know?

I just can't imagine.

So take us through what that's like.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yes, it, it, it is a very unique experience and it's

one that for, for carrier aviators, you never forget your first time.

you know, I vividly now, even though it's been, you know, 40 plus

years ago, I, I vividly remember circling overhead, the ship and.

looking down, before we were in our landing sequence and, and just

thinking, you know, how did I get here?

Kind of thing.

Right?

so, but, but then at some point the training kicks in and, and I was blessed

later in my career to actually teach.

Carrier Aviate the next generation of, Navy and Marine Corps

Wow.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and that's when you know, it's one thing when

you do it, but then when you start to teach it and, and understand

how to get someone else to do it.

That really is a whole different passion, and I'm sure you can relate to that

where, where you've kind of had a way that you've, you've seen through, and,

and now it's time for you to share that and help others get to obtain that.

So

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: yeah, it's a true blessing.

That's awesome.

That's really great.

I always, I always thought that would just be the, the most epic experience

to go down on the air aircraft grid and just land on the top deck.

That's just incredible.

So, so now when you're going through, you joined, how long were you in

the, the military and flying before the whole thing broke out in Iraq

and Afghanistan, all that stuff?

What, what was that like in terms of your experience?

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yeah, so I graduated college in 1994 and then went to,

Marine Corps,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: They call it the Basic

which

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: is, an infantry officer, kind of all Marine Corps

officers or infantry, focused.

So

that and went

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: went to flight school and, and I got wing

finished.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: flight school in 1998

then

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: You know,

2000, oh

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: is when, when, you know, the 2001, the world, the

center.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: nine 11.

And then, and then oh three is

Iraq all took off.

Sorry.

Yes.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yes.

So you had been in it for quite some time and already

been flying, so that was, it wasn't like you just kind of walked in

and had it was shipped out, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I, and so many

know, you and I were

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I I'm sure have

stories where about timing and

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: in life, right?

yes.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: experiences and, and, and I just was very,

very fortunate to hit timing

Where I

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I

opportunities

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Like, you know, deploying and, and able to

serve our country in ways that, just because I happened to have

the right qualifications and be in the right spot at the right time.

And that was a great example when, when the TA twin Towers fell

there in, nine 11, I was already, you know, a combat certified.

Pilot.

ready.

You're, you're just like, it's like game on.

You know?

Let's go.

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: time to go.

Yeah.

The machine was woken up for

Oh wow.

So now that was an amazing time.

Just a wild, wild time.

but I, you know, a lot of times as leaders, some of the things, and

we have a lot of business owners, leaders, entrepreneurs, coaches

that listen to the last 10%.

And so a lot of times we're shaped as leaders by our experiences,

and you've gone through and you've kind of achieved this dream.

Getting to this place and, and you're in, you're strapping in the cockpit,

taking off, doing your thing, and then nine 11 happens and all, all this other

stuff opens up in the theater of war.

you had some interesting experiences as just right out the gate.

Tell us about some of that and how you experienced going from, Hey, I'm in

the military, flying to the difference of, oh, this is, this is live.

how did that kind of transpire and how did that shape you?

Yeah, that's a great question because that very

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: point, was.

Really

was a trajectory of my life

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and I, I remember sitting on the flight deck

prior

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: to my very first

that

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: mission, and

were operating

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: in the Northern

golf just off the coast of,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: of Kuwait.

and just prior

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: the.

the, you

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: captain fixes,

know,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: know,

the pilot

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: pilot strap into the ejection seat.

And on that particular day, it was really early in the campaign.

These were initial waves of combat operations for most everybody,

all the pilots, the, the, the ships crew, everybody was, we

were all kind of new to this.

And just prior to stepping down, I remember the plane captain said words.

Dallas that I'll never forget.

He said, good luck, sir. This time it's for real.

And I just, you know, and, and he meant all the best intentions, of

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: but I, I remember as I closed the canopy and sat there in the

silence of the airplane, I just remember thinking to myself, I've trained my

entire adult life for this very moment.

And then that led me to.

Other thoughts?

Thoughts of what if I go out there and make a mistake?

What if I drop a bomb on the wrong target?

What if I get shot down and never see my family again?

And all these questions are rolling through my mind and they lead me

to the greatest question of all.

What if I'm not good enough?

And

I

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: will tell you that that

Question

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Dallas

changed.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: The trajectory of my life, because

That is a very,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: human question and, and we've all

we've

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I have the opportunity now to speak with,

with teams and organizations,

all.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: all over the world

And have studied individual and

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: that regardless of what culture

culture

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: from,

where your background is

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: is, what language you speak.

That sense of being a real challenge and what if I'm not good enough,

something that is deeply human.

And so what

Been able to do that.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: is I spend

my patch flying airplanes,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: still,

then I also

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: pursued this

passion of

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: of,

of developing.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: a debrief

That helps people know that when they have that

question arise in their life.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: life, they're ready.

Wow.

I think that's so true.

I mean, it's the difference in what you see in the Top Gun movie when

the, you know, they're on the deck and they're, you know, and it goes off.

It's like, take off.

Well, that's, that's Hollywood.

And then there's real life where the real pops sitting there and.

Hey, am I?

am I good enough?

Am I gonna make this?

And I think that's, you're right.

So, and it doesn't matter if you are, because whenever we go into something

new, like you're talking about the Theater of War, you've prepared.

But like this is like, he said, this is for real, you know?

And you can go to college, but when you come out and you start the job,

it's like, oh, this is for real.

Or when you leave your job and you go, I'm starting my own

business, I'm going on my own.

Man, that first day when the alarm clock goes off, you go, oh my gosh,

is this like, am I good enough?

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: That's right.

That's right.

I think it's totally human.

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Absolutely very human, and particularly

for those, the high achievers,

yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: the last 10% is filled with that question, in my

opinion, because that's where you're really in, you're separating yourself

from those that, that rather it's in entrepreneurship or athletics or, You

know, just in family life as you know, these things about, pushing ourselves

to be better, that question comes up

I think two.

I think one of the things that is interesting is if you don't have a really

good way of answering that question, it can cause you to do some things

that are probably self-destructive.

Because if you just can't get over that and you just constantly, am I good enough?

Am I good enough ain't good enough?

You know, it can drive you to do some things that are probably

unhealthy in trying to be good enough.

You know what I mean?

Like unhealthy ways of dealing with that.

So I would love to know like what surprised you?

I mean, 'cause you're in the military, it's highly organized,

highly structured, you, you know, you've been training for this.

did they equip you to deal with that question and was there any kind of

differences in, when you've come out of it in kinda the private sector that you saw?

Like, was there anything that surprised you about being in that

once you asked that question, or more surprising once you got out?

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yes.

The biggest thing that I learned in the military, and particularly in, Combat

fighter aviation, is that the discipline the relentless passion of debriefing?

Mm.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: as a strategy, really taking an event, a flight

that's occurred, and breaking it down in such a structured discipline way.

Where it's not about assigning blame, it's not about, you know, pointing

what went wrong, although there is an element of identifying what went

wrong because we need to identify that so that we can be better.

But everybody on the team, every, in the culture of, of fighter

aviation, the debrief is built around one and only one principle, which

is how do we be better tomorrow?

How do we learn from what happened today so that we're going to

be better aviators tomorrow?

Because at the end of the day, the speeds and the complexity of the

missions, that individual that, you know, combat, fight, or pilots

fly, you can't be in reactive mode.

You have got to be ready for those days and those events and those sorties and so.

The debrief is something that I've now, through my postgraduate work

Studied.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: about how can we take these principles of debriefing

that work so efficiently and effectively aviation, and how can we bridge

those to other folks so that they can use a de a structured debrief

model to improve performance in their

Ah, that's awesome.

So you actually took, what, one of the things that you were, you know, kind

of taught in the military, in these, the theater of war, and, and, and

translating it now to, to everyone, and I think that's really great.

Well, I would say, you know, what was the biggest surprise, the, the

biggest difference when you were over there and you got into it, you started

running your missions and things.

What was the biggest surprise for you?

Like the biggest shock for you when you're over there?

You're doing what you're supposed to be doing.

Was there anything that you just left and went, oh my God,

like I was not expecting that

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I,

I would.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: say that one of the biggest things

that, that I learned that was.

The more complex the mission, simpler the tactics had to be.

Unbelievably.

So you, I couple exposures I had were of the thought process

of, you know, most complex.

So we really need to be complex in our execution, and it's

actually just the opposite.

What I learned, the simpler things can

The effective

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: they have to be success.

And I'll just tell you one example I, I remember in Afghanistan flying, and.

course, you know, our

communication.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: is encrypted so they can't, so it can't be intercepted.

And I remember I was coming off of, a mission to

to air refuel and there

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: there was

tanker.

At the correct location.

At the right spot at the.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: the right altitude, at the pre-brief, time and.

And I couldn't, I couldn't talk to them and they couldn't talk to me.

So we had two airplanes and it was like

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: two in the morning.

dark out and it was one,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: of these things that

it was like, well, when

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: you know,

something as simple as just talking to that other

airplane, you would think it all

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: in all the complexity of what's

just to a simple.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: simple, how do I talk

This airplane

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: to that airplane?

You know, we've been flying for.

You know,

many years

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and

communication.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: you wouldn't think would be one of the biggest challenges.

But, you know, we ended up basically just doing no

communication, air-to-air refueling.

He figured it out.

I figured it out and, and we got it done.

But it really is

It really

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: it

is an example

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: of some of the simplest things that

you think are going to happen

there.

If you add any complexity in there,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: it's gonna go off the rails.

I That is amazing.

What a great story too, because I can't imagine, I'm just sitting here when you're

talking, thinking like hell in the world.

What would I do?

I'm sitting there in the cockpit like, okay, I gotta get this guy,

we gotta line up in precision and there's all kind of fuel and air and

sparks and, you know, blowing up.

And I just, I'm like, you know, I don't wanna do that at two in the morning,

and be a firework and over, over Iraq.

So like, how?

Man, that is intense.

And it's like you said though, it's a very simple thing.

All you need to do is radio over to 'em.

Say, Hey, this is what I need you to do, do this, I'm gonna do that.

And it's good.

But you, when you can't do that, it makes, it makes something so simple.

Seem very much more.

Much more complex, so that's interesting.

Okay.

Well let's talk a little bit about this because you, you talked about debrief,

you know, kind of what, was there any like moment or, or was there anything

that idea, that really inspired you to say, I need to take this back.

Like I need to, this, this is a thing and I need to go and

share this with other people.

Was there something that drove that idea?

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Well there, there was, so I was, I had the opportunity

after I came back from my second tour in Afghanistan to do some post-graduate work

Harvard.

Mm-hmm.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: we were sitting in a cross-cultural

communica, leadership class.

And I remember sitting next to a colleague of mine and the idea was.

let's relatively small class, maybe 30 students.

The idea was how can we learn from each other's diverse backgrounds

Right.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: take the kind of, do a best of

Yeah.

Right.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and collaborate and see what's happening in the world

of finance and business and see what's happening in government and see what's

happening in, in these different areas.

And, and I was kind of the military voice in that.

In that room.

And, and I remember a colleague, she turned to me and she was

like, how do you all perform at, at, at a high level consistently?

How do you get that level of consistency where you're always right?

Like it's, it, it's not clockwork because, There are, you know, some missions

don't go as well as, as, as we hope, but over across the board, it's the idea of

performing at a high level consistently.

And pondering on that thought I came up with the idea of, really the

To her

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: question was

because we have a system of

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: of debrief that drives

continuous,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: improvement.

again, getting back to that

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: that idea of

better tomorrow.

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and,

everybody,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: buys into the

yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Everybody buys in

Wow.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and,

So that kind

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: of triggered the idea of, well,

of how can I package this

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: this and

can we work collaboratively to transfer this

to other folks so that they can benefit from the lessons learned?

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: that were from.

Military?

Yeah.

and apply a debrief strategy that's simple, efficient, and quick enough

that they'll actually do it to move the needle in their life.

I think that's so good because it's not about, I

mean, you are the best, but when you're the best, you still have

to be the best at getting better.

'cause you're always the target.

Right.

You know?

So we got, we got, we might be the best, but we definitely gotta

be the best at getting better.

And that's what you're talking about here when I think about

the debrief, is that system, it's really interesting too, because

it's a system that drives a culture.

You said it, you said everybody bought in.

And so I think that's a fascinating approach because, you know, people talk

about company culture, but company, you know, I, I had a friend of mine put it

on the whiteboard and I do it on all of my whiteboards I'll drive is, is

culture is what we do around here, right?

So it's what we do that counts.

It's not the values on the wall, it's what you're taking out the door

and you're walking and living out, you know, so it, it is, what you're

saying is, it's interesting because this is a system that was put in place

that can be very intentional about.

Driving a culture of improvement.

And I think that's really fascinating.

'cause I think sometimes we might say, oh, we want to, we want to get better,

or, oh, we want to, we wanna do that.

But if you can't point to something specific and concrete to say, this is how

we do it, and if there's one thing that you're gonna buy into is this right here.

Because it fundamentally defines who we, who we say we are.

And I think that's a, I think it's a really powerful concept.

So if you're leading a team.

If you're leading an organization, if you're coaching someone, can you point

to something that's directly in alignment with a value that you're trying to live?

Not an aspirational value.

I'm talking about a defining value.

Something that says this thing defines who we are.

And so, you know, like what you're saying, Jeff is like.

We were defined by doing this.

This debrief helped us define about how we get better every single day.

We're gonna get better every single day.

I think it's so important for team leaders.

How are you, how are you as a team improving?

and if you are not, if you don't have something intentional that

you can point to that you're doing.

Consistently, how do you know if you're getting better?

Because just saying you want to, and it doesn't even, and here's the other

thing, I think some, especially in organizations where they're on the climb,

it's going up and to the right, right?

Everybody's happy, everybody's doing good.

'cause the money's flowing.

Is it because you're really the best at getting better?

Or is it because you just kind of, you got struck by lightning.

You happen to be in an industry that's exploding and you just happen to

be on the ride with everybody else, and then whenever thing, whenever

it plateaus off, or tech, you know, or there's a little hiccup, all of a

sudden this is exposed that you weren't as good as you thought you were.

Right?

So.

I just think that's really, really, I think the message that you're sharing

is so important because Center Mass for leaders, coaches, and CEOs because

I think that if we can't point to that, then we're just kind of walking

blindly and hoping for the best.

Right.

So that's really good.

Really good.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yeah, absolutely.

There, there's so much that can, be done as far as the culture if we

can get individuals to buy into this idea of having a, a simple debrief.

that develops and once that spreads across organizations, and I've been

blessed to work with folks from, from all different kind of walks of life

and once, once we get enough folks that are, have bought into the habit

of debriefing in their own personal life, then we start to see the needle,

needle start to move with the culture.

And that's to your very

I love that.

Let's talk a little bit about the habits.

'cause you've got a model, you know, you've got the debrief model and

you are actually helping people.

and you speak a lot about, about how we set these habits in place.

How do we turn these, you know, this, this debrief into a routine

and what does that look like?

'cause I mean, I think some people are out there probably going, I mean, I hear you.

I know that it sounds good, you know, but, but what does a good debrief look like?

I think that's what you're talking about.

What does that look like?

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yeah, that's a great question.

So the debrief advantage is the name of the system that I, that

I have the honor to, work with folks around the, around with.

And, and it's based on two principles of human performance.

What the system is, it's a, it's a principle centered.

Human system for human performance that uses a debrief habit at its core.

And so we focus around.

It's built on two principles of human performance, and those principles are

prospective proceeds, performance, that's principle one improvement as follows.

Adjustments.

I would suggest to you based on the years of work that I've done in

this area of, of human performance and study and, and working with

individuals, is that those principles are there, whether we see them or not.

If we look at high performers, two principles of perspective

proceeds performance and improvement of follows adjustment.

Are, are, are in our lives and, and are.

The question is how do we align to them to achieve the kind

of results that we want to?

that's where the debrief model comes in.

And, and the debrief model that I teach is called the Great.

great debrief model, it's an acronym, G-R-E-A-T

Five steps.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and there's some really good lessons learned about

how the habit itself of practicing these five steps can, can really move

an organization and an individual, from really driving toward that

idea of continuous improvement.

That's really good.

I'd like to unpack, like your first thing there where you said

perspective precedes performance.

how would you describe that in more detail to the listeners?

Because I think that's a really good concept, but I wanna

un understand that better.

So when we.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: think about how we show up in our lives, it's

really the understanding that how we perform in a situation.

Was actually influenced before we got into the situation.

Right?

And so, you know, I, I have the chance to work with athletes and sometimes

I'll work with, and, and in that scenario it's the difference between

You're a football guy

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: it's a difference between fourth and 20

being

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: oh, we don't have a chance.

And, and fourth and 20 being, this is my time for greatness.

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: how many times in our lives do we come into situations

where, how we see the situation shapes how we perform inside that situation?

And,

And.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: when we, the, the, the five step debrief model aligns to

help us shape the proper perspective so that we're performing optimally in

the situation when we arrive at it.

You know, that's counterintuitive when

you think about a debrief.

I think a lot of leaders hear the word debrief and they're

thinking it's about looking back.

Yeah,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Mm-hmm.

but you just kind of flip the script there.

You're like, no, no, no, nah.

We're shaping the perspective of the next time you see this in or

the next time you go through this.

So we're we're the debrief Yes.

Is looking back, but it's actually the point is to shape your

perspective on the next thing.

So it's not just historical records, it's not like I'm

gonna capture all this to CYA.

So if anybody looks in the record books, they'll know it's not my

fault that this thing went wrong.

Right.

It's not.

It has nothing to do with that really.

You're talking about looking forward.

That's interesting.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: that's the whole point of it.

Again, I think back to some of the lessons learned from military aviation, and

again, the whole purpose of the debrief.

One singular purpose be better tomorrow.

So the whole shape of what we're doing is focused around how do we

develop continuous improvement so that next time we see what we're doing,

we're doing it at a higher level.

And that's what the habit allows us to do.

I love that.

Now, let's talk about that second point you made about improvement.

Let's unpack that a little bit.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: the second principle of human performance is, as

it drives to continuous improvement, is improvement follows adjustment.

And what we're talking about here is sometimes I'll, I'll

phrase this, in the way of.

If we don't change, nothing's gonna get better.

If we keep doing what we're gonna do, we're due.

We are gonna keep getting what we're gonna be

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: right?

There's no way around that.

And so when we intentionally understand that, the gap is between where we

are now and where we want to be order to close that gap change.

There's no way to get there from, from where we are now to where

we want to be without change.

So the idea is how do we align with that principle of

improvement follows adjustment.

How do we dial in Dallas and, and really make the correct that are

actually gonna result in improvement?

'cause we could just go out there blindly

So,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: we see that.

yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: you know, in our life we see well.

Hey, you know, I just changed a bunch of things at once and one of 'em worked out

and sometimes we're fortunate in that way.

But what I would suggest a structured debrief model does

for us is it really allows

Be very precise about what changes we.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: need to make based on the experience we just had, that's gonna

set us up for improvement in the future.

I love that.

I think, again, it's just so interesting because it's giving a very rich picture

of how you define and describe a debrief.

It's not just a meeting that you look at, okay, we did good or we did bad.

There's so much more intentionality to it, and we talk a lot about

intention, intentionality on this.

In the last 10%.

We know if you're gonna be in the last 10%, if you're gonna live

well, if you're gonna finish strong, you've got to have intention.

And I'd love the debrief because you're saying we're gonna be intentional

about shaping our perspective.

So we we're fourth and 20.

There's not a question if, if we're gonna do it, it's like we got.

Four different options.

Which one do we want to try here?

Right?

So it's different where there's confidence that we walk in that situation.

We already have that perspective.

So where our perspective is, we've been here before, we know

what to do, let's go get it done.

Versus, oh my gosh, we're about to lose this game.

Right?

You know?

So I love that intentionality and I love the fact that you're

saying you're just going ahead and saying and calling it, look.

We've got, we've got to make adjustments if we want to get better, because if

we just keep doing the same thing, we're gonna get the same results.

And that's the definition of insanity.

Right?

So we, the, the, the fact that we can move through that, we just are

automatically, we're gonna say, we're going to build in this practice and this

habit of making adjustments to get better.

I think that's, rock steady.

I love that.

I you have the, debrief model.

You use the great acronym.

If you were to pick one of the letters out of Great that you feel like our

listeners would just be the, would just benefit the most from, can you pick one?

I mean, sometimes it's like having kids I can't pick.

They're all good, you know, I can't pick, I can't pick one.

But if you had to pick one, which one would you share today?

With, of the great, acronym that you, you think our leaders

would benefit the most from?

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Mm. Yeah, that, that's a good question.

And, and they are all, they build on each other, right?

So the each one takes a different perspective on, on the.

As you go around, because they're mutually supportive, but I, I would say if I had to

pick one, I would pick the first one, the

Okay.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: in the model, which stands for gratitude.

And we start with gratitude for a very intentional reason.

And that reason is because have to anchor ourselves.

To what we are grateful for to be here because that's the springboard.

We don't improve based on failure.

We improve based on success.

And so when we look at, and this gets very much to the point of aligning

with the first principle, which is perspective proceeds performance.

Well, the question then is, what's perspective should I walk into a

situation with, I would suggest, based on the years of study that I've.

Done in this area that when we look at the things that really drag us down in

performance, anger, frustration, those type of negative feelings, the one that's

kind of the antidote to all of them is gratitude the human body, we can't

process both of those at the same time.

So I, I would suggest to you that gratitude is the anchor point of, of.

Continuous improvement, that is what performance, in my opinion is based on.

I've gotta say, you just surprised me quite a bit there.

I mean, when you said g and i wa I didn't, I didn't know what you

were gonna say, but when you said gratitude, I wasn't expecting You

got a combat fighter pilot in the military, who is talking about debriefs.

I, I just assumed it was going to be, I don't know what I assumed.

But I just didn't think gratitude would be the first.

But it's fascinating because I totally agree.

and, and I, I think that positioning your mindset, I just, that's just shocking.

That's really interesting.

Now, now I'm, now I'm interested.

Like now I'm like, oh God, there's, that's, that's there one more lesson.

So, but I just, I, I love that because of what you've, what you've

done is you've exactly what you said, you said perspective and

you're shaping the perspective.

It's, it's the mindset.

It's not just the information.

it's the information but the mindset that's shaping that perspective.

So, I mean, I, I love that.

That's really good stuff.

That,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: that's a

that's a great point.

You know.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: know, when I speak on this, a lot of times

people have that same reaction.

I can tell in the crowd that they're thinking, you know, this former

fighter pilot's gonna stand up there.

And when I deliver gratitude, they think.

Oh, we're gonna light candles and do yoga.

Like, what's going on here?

Right?

This is not what, this is not what I came here

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and then I show a video and, and talk about the

Blue Angels, which most folks know.

they have a saying on the team called Glad to be.

after every single debrief they use, everybody on that team uses

those words, glad to be here.

And it's more

Just,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: a saying, it's an anchor of belief of we

glad to be here and that's our

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: foundation for excellence.

foundation.

Mm. Oh man.

I love that.

I love the fact that they said, we're glad to be here and that's

our foundation of excellence.

I mean, that's, that's, I think that's so missed.

When we talk about excellence, a lot of times, we'll, as leaders, I think we get

caught up in like the Six Sigma, right?

Not that there's anything wrong with Lean Six Sigma, you know, quality

improvement, whatever, a total quality.

I mean, we, the whole thing, we go all the way back, but it's.

It's not about necessarily squeezing as the saying goes, squeezing

blood outta the tournament.

Like there's this, it's not necessarily only about just getting tighter and

tighter and tighter, I think you lose the spirit of what you're there for.

You lose purpose if you don't start with.

Excellence coming from, I'm glad to be here because the

motivation comes from that, right?

Like if you, how are you motivated to really dial in the, the, if

you're just drudgery, like if you're not glad to be here, it's this

JOB, like, I'm just showing up.

You're never gonna dial it as tight.

If you go, I'm so glad to be here.

And so I, I mean, I just love that.

I love, I love that excellence really starts.

That I'm glad to be here as a foundation of excellence.

That is the first time I've heard that.

And I, man, that's, that is gold right there.

That is gold.

Oh, oh, man.

I know, I know.

The listeners are loving that.

So I'm gonna ask you this, because you talked to a lot of teams.

You talked to a lot of companies and organizations.

you've been in aviation for a long time.

You throughout your career when you know, you know, high, Essentially

high performers, you're talking about how they're reflecting, adjusting,

and improving but what are some of the obstacles that you've seen

that leaders face when they're trying to kind of implement this

debrief habit in their organization?

Like what, what kind of stumbling blocks or roadblocks do they, that

they encounter that you help 'em with?

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Right.

So probably

The biggest

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: ones is that the debrief is seen at the, the idea of

debriefing and, and improving performance.

There's nothing particularly, Insightful about that idea, right.

I think at some

we all know.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: as as high performers, that if we review

what just happened, we're likely to be better the next

Mm-hmm.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Right, and that's the,

So, so the challenge is not so

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: much

much getting folks

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: to buy into the idea of a debrief.

The challenge is getting it into their workflow so that it's not

distracting from what's next in their life, because we all are busy

what.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: is we have a cycle of.

We, we finish an event and then it's right onto the next event.

what I'm, what I work with folks to do is try and get a very, very simple,

I mean we're talking Dallas, we're talking this whole five step great

model can be done in five minutes.

Hmm.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: or as a team.

Wow.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: the idea is after we finish a meeting, after

we finish an event, something like that, it's gotta be repeatable.

It has to be the exact same sequence so that we're not surprising and we stay, we

don't let the debrief go off the rails.

And it's gotta be timely.

Because we've got important things to do.

We gotta get in, we gotta have a system, a structured system to pull

out the good stuff that we need to pull out to be better tomorrow.

and then we're moving

Yes.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I,

I.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: would say the biggest challenge that I

see is getting folks to not get distracted and make it an hour long.

Session where we're just pointing out what went wrong.

And you know, again, it's a system for human performance, which

means we gotta deal with egos,

Yes.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: which,

Which means, you know,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: we want,

we get

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: back to the gratitude,

we

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: We

our

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: team to be glad to be

yes.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: We want, we want the

To understand that

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: we're gonna be better tomorrow.

how do we identify both what's going right, so we can repeat it?

And what we can improve on, which is things that maybe didn't go as

right.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and how do we get better?

Ah, man, I love that.

I love the timely piece too, because if you just, it's like, it's so easy

when you finish something, you have the celebration, hey, you know, and

everybody goes out and you're like, on the next thing, the next bright and

shiny thing, the next pressing thing, urgent, whatever, and then you're like,

you wake up two months later and you.

You know what we need to really, and then, you know, then you've

already missed an opportunity.

And I think that's so important that, that you approach it that

way because there's so much that fidelity, it's like a loss of fidelity.

Once you, the further away you get from the event, the

more fidelity that you lose.

The picture just kind of gets dim and blurry and, You know, I think

there's so much more power if you can do it, like you said, right after it.

I just think about that from like, we do leadership summits at, for private

clients and, you know, at the end of the summit we do this debrief and, and I, I'm

just very fascinated to see your model.

'cause we might, maybe we can take that and put it in, to the sessions afterwards.

But we do it like literally we go.

Done.

And then we all, all the team goes into another room while everybody

else is going home, going to get their suitcases packing up.

We go to another room and sit around the table and we're like, okay, we just

finished five minutes ago now where we at?

And let's go.

Let's see what we got.

And so it's just.

If, but, but here's what we've done in the past too.

Somebody got out, somebody didn't come, we didn't do it.

We'd say, okay, we'll do it tomorrow.

And then next thing you know, you wake up, it's a month

later and you haven't done it.

And then you're like, man, we've lost some information.

'cause there's some things we just we're never gonna get back

if we didn't do it right then.

So I love that.

I love that.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and you know, I know you're in the, the, the last

10% are the folks that, that debrief.

And I would even suggest statistically, it's, it's the 5%, it's the top 5% of

folks, whether it's in athletics or business or whatever, healthcare, whatever

it is, it's statistically the top 5%.

Of individuals are ones that have a structured, even in some

Wow,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: or fashion.

We're gonna just, like you said, we just finished the event.

Hey, we're gonna get the team together and we're gonna talk about what, what

was good, what was bad, what we can do next year, that that's elite error.

You're in right

Well that's, that's so incredible because it's exactly

what we wanna do for our listeners.

If you're listening to the last 10%, you care about living well, finishing

strong, you're, you care about being the best at getting better.

And today is like center mass.

We're talking center mass on this.

Because I think that this habit is exactly right.

He's, you know, Jeff is telling us that the people that are living in the

last 10% are practicing really, they're being very intentional about debriefing.

So, I think that's really great.

if there was someone listening to the last 10% that's maybe stuck, big goal, team

project, personal habit, do you have any practical advice that you would give them?

And, and it may be part of your debriefing strategy or model, but what advice

would you give them to kind of break through that plateau, and finish strong?

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yeah, so I would suggest the, thing that it, it's the

last step of the five step model, which is the t take time for lessons learned.

And what we talk about there is simply we're trying to get 1% better.

yes.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: it.

We're not trying, you

Yes.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: don't like pe.

Sometimes when I talk to CEOs and they're like, you know,

Get 10.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Can we get the 15?

Like what ROI and these, and these are, these are important and I understand

where their question's coming from, but where I'd like to draw them

back into the mindset of is where.

We're in hot pursuit of continuous improvement

right.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and what that looks like.

That does not happen in leaps and

No.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: That happens in 1% better each day.

That's right.

Someone.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: struggling, I would suggest to you to just find some way.

That at night before when you're brushing your teeth.

We talk about doing that in the book.

We talk about anchoring the habit to brushing your teeth, right, because it,

it takes a couple minutes to do that.

You can mentally go through this five step model while you're brushing your teeth.

Find a way to just think about is one thing that I learned from today

that will make me better tomorrow?

Whether

You know, in whatever area, whether it's your

health, whether it's your family

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: whether it's your

or entrepreneur,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: coach, whatever.

just find one little nugget and if you

start building those nuggets

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: those nuggets on top

off.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: you know, you know as well as I do

Yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: that after a while you're making some significant progress.

love that we talk about the 1%, advantage all the time, micro

movements, because we have a coaching system that we implement and that's

literally part of the coaching system.

We say, Hey, it's just 1%.

You're looking to move them 1% this month, not, you're not looking, and I look at it

like this, like a CEO, like you're saying.

It's a great point because A CEO, you're standing on the ground and they're

already looking out the top floor of the Empire State Building and they, they can.

See it, you're both standing on the ground and they're like, man, okay,

can you take me to the, top of the Empire State building like tomorrow?

And it's like, or like right now, like in one minute and it's like, Hey, yeah,

but like, what's the likelihood of me jumping up the staircase, you know, 10,

you know, like five floors at a time.

Impossible.

But I, what's one floor?

That's a, that's a, I mean, I gotta be a high jumper to get there.

But I can take the first step and then I can take the second step.

And then over a period of time, next thing you know, you've climbed, you

know, whatever number of stories to the top of the Empire State Building.

But you don't do it all at one time.

You just, you gotta take it one step at a time.

You can't, you can't do it all at once.

And I think that's the, so it's so tempting to say what shortcut,

what elevator can I take to just take me to the top and I'm there?

And that's not where the work is.

The work, the work is what gets you there.

But to be able to sustain that is so overwhelming when you look at all this.

You know, 80 floors or a hundred floors, you're going, I gotta go all that.

No, you don't.

You just gotta take the next step, the next step, the next step.

So I think that's so true.

It's so powerful.

It's a powerful concept, man.

I'm telling you, Jeff, this has been the most fun conversation.

I really think that this is a great model.

and I know our listeners are going, we've given them two, you've given

them the first and the last, the first and the last, number one

and number five of the model.

If you wanna find out the, the three in the middle, you need to connect with Jeff.

You need to buy his book.

And so, Jeff, tell us where people can connect, where they can learn

more about the debrief model.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yeah, thanks Dallas.

So they can go to debrief advantage, back slash start, debrief, advantage,

backslash start, and there are all the free resources and everything

specifically for your listeners.

And that'll get 'em on the, the habit.

The model is there, there's everything they need to start

a simple, repeatable five step.

Debrief habit that's gonna drive them to continuous improvement.

that's awesome.

If you're driving, you know, we'll put it in the show notes.

Check it out.

Check Jeff out, connect with him and Jeff, we always end the show asking every guest.

If you were to hear and listen to somebody on the last 10%,

who would you like to hear?

Be a guest on the last 10%.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: Yeah, that's great.

And I'm, I'm gonna go with, that I, I've never had an opportunity to speak

with 'em, but I have been influenced by their, their work across their life.

And that is Sammy Hagar.

I don't know if

Wow.

Yeah,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: fan or you know, former lead singer of Van Halen.

And,

yeah.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: and, I just, I used to listen to his music.

Prior to every combat mission.

Oh.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I li now I listen to him before I go on stage and after

I, you know, I just, he gets me.

And, and not only that, his span of what he's been able to do from

where he grew up and in rock and roll hall of Fame and all that stuff.

But also he, he does a lot of great charitable work and, and he's

just a, to me, his songwriting.

Is very impactful.

So

I love seeing,

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: hear you interview

man.

You know what?

We'll have to, we'll have to see.

We'll reach out, we'll see if we can get our people in touch with his people and

see if we can get him on the last 10% that, Hey, listen, I'm a music buff man.

When you say music, man, that, that, that goes deep.

and I love Van Halen.

That is really great.

So, yeah, man, that's a good, that's a good hit right there.

that would be a fun show.

So, we'll have to see.

well, Jeff, man, thank you so much for being on the last 10%.

We thank you for your wisdom.

You dropped some great wisdom for our listeners and, we are

just gonna keep on remembering.

We gotta be the best at getting better.

Just like what you're saying, we're gonna do it through the debrief model.

So thanks again for being on last 10%.

Jeff "Bones" Bonner: I love it.

Dallas, thanks so much.