"What good is sitting alone in a room? Come hear the music play.—come taste the wine, start celebrating. Right this way, your table's waiting," sings actor Liza Minnelli as Sally Bowles in Cabaret. The message: do the best you can to overcome your hardships so that you can live life as full as you're able and go out with a bang. That outlook exemplifies the spirit of my guest for episode 8, Leah Baer.

Leah just began her 79th year and sees these late last years on earth as an adventure. She’s dedicated to helping women and resisting patriarchy in all its forms. Leah is a writer, storyteller, actor, poet, parent, grandparent, & lover of life. Her motto is: “My old age—where Thanatos & Eros meet—is my beginning.” Her writing has been published in VoiceCatcher, Unchaste Readers, Gleam & Women’s E News. She’s done storytelling and public speaking at Roar: Fierce Female Voices, Corporeal Writing, Booklovers Burlesque, and for Planned Parenthood & the NW Coalition Against Domestic Violence.

As part of her “old age is an adventure” project, she has recently taken a couple of voice lessons. And, I goaded her into singing a song for this episode—with me!

Leah is currently working on her one-woman show, “The Shimmer of Other Lives,” which will debut in the Fall of 2023.

You can find her on FB and IG @baerleah

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Without further ado, let's dig in together and figure out ways to resist societal expectations while re-imagining a world where mature women are made visible and empowered to become their own passion projects. Let's do this.

Her favorite words are . Did I sound right?

Leah: Yeah, that's it.

Yeah, that's true.

Lovely. So welcome to the podcast, Leah. I'm so happy to have you here.

So excited about it.

Lorna: I know you have a lot of things that you want to talk about,

Leah: so. So many things to say

Lorna: and I wish that we had, you know, like a weekend together to chit chat.

You are a very vibrant person with many creative accomplishments under your belt.

Who has been a main inspiration for you?

Leah: It's a long list. It started with Simone de Beauvoir when I was 12 or 13, and I started reading the second sex. Then I learned about Elzu, a French feminist, and she's the one I learned the word from.

Lorna: Which I'm not familiar with.

Leah: Well, I'll tell you about it.

Lorna: Okay.

Lorna: Okay.

Leah: And creativity.

So there's Zu and then Lidia Yuknavitch writing has mattered so much to me. And joining Corporeal writing these people who were just kind of breaking the boundaries and helping people who maybe could not afford college to create together and to get teaching and encouragement about writing.

And let's see. A lot of people, Renee Denfield, a local Portland writer, and more recently a woman named Mary Setrakian, who wrote a book called Sing Find Your True Voice, which took away some of the scary things about singing. Oh, okay. Yes, that's my shortlist,

Lorna: but it's pretty extensive. I could go home.

You master journal list. Yeah. Do you have a favorite form of artistic expression?

Leah: Uh, right now it's writing and acting. Okay. Because I, oh, and I forgot to mention Beth Bornstein Dunnington with whom I've been acting for three years, and writing monologues, performing the monologues, and being in shows

on Zoom and I did acting when I was a kid and I'm loving being back in that world again. Just thrilled to be back and dancing though. I have a bad knee right now, so it has to just be belly dancing. Pirouettes are out for now, and I like painting and living. Living's an art.

Lorna: Living is an art. Yeah, there's definitely an art to living.

Leah: And learning how to be fully human, which is an ongoing process. Mm-hmm. I think that's an art too.

Lorna: Do you feel like you've lived through several versions of yourself?

Leah: I do.

Lorna: Because you are 79.

79

Leah: Here's the way I do age, technically. On March 9th, I turned 78, which just means that I've been alive for 78 years. Okay. But I'm already in my third month of my 79th year, so I counted as my 79th year. Okay. Anyway, yes, I am. What was the question?

Do you feel like you've lived at this age several versions of yourself?

Yes.

Mm-hmm. And I still had this fire with me. In me, this yearning to be more, but so much of my life was constrained by fear. Mm-hmm. And that, that's just two versions. The version of me now, and the version of me then. And I think it's been like a, I don't know, it's been like a, a rollercoaster ride or, or a, a braided essay.

Where you start with one subject and then you add another one and then go back to the first subject. Mm. Okay. And my life, I think many lives are like that, where you keep, maybe you go back to what you did before, even if it was dysfunctional because it's familiar. Mm-hmm. And then you learn something and you move forward and you're a different person.

Lorna: Yeah. For me, What I've been doing as I've been getting older is looking back to my childhood self. Me too, and the little Lorna and yeah, thinking about what she would've wanted for me and, and Oh, I love that and where I am right now. And if little Lorna could look at me right now and yeah, just kind of be proud of where I am.

Just go to this kind of emotional place when I'm using my body in that way. I understand it's kind of like meditative or transcendent or something where things just kind of bubble up. And that was just one of the things I started thinking about in the middle of my run was what would, you know the the little me think about where I am in life right now.

And I started getting kind of teary and stuff, and then I kind of pushed it back down because it's challenging to. To run and cry. Break out running. Yeah. Break out crying in

Leah: I used to run some marathons and that happens to me too.

Lorna: Boy. He carries so much history in our bodies. Mm-hmm.

Leah: And it's so wonderful to do any physical exercise because I think it, it, it reconnects us to our. To our history. Yeah. It allows us to feel deeply in a way that everyday life doesn't always allow us to do. And, and yes, I think that's a wonderful exercise in writing too.

To write to yourself your, your younger self. And the piece that, that I will have published, I don't, don't yet know the publication date that I wrote a few days ago. I go into my child's self. And then my 22 year old self. It's such a wonderful thing to connect with, you're younger than you.

Mm-hmm. And they wouldn't let it happen, the dean wouldn't let it happen. So in the piece that I wrote and performed, it's the older me talking to the younger me, telling me , that it's, that it's gonna be okay. Hmm. Regimes will still happen and the history may keep repeating itself, but also we will get stronger.

And it was a wonderful exit, actually. It was quite fun to do, but I cried too while doing it. Yeah. And then I had to go for walks around the neighborhood crying and wearing my sunglasses so people wouldn't wonder why I was going off. Yeah.

Lorna: I've, I've been that, I've also taken a dance class when I went at Cornish, a modern dance class where in the middle of class I've just broken into tears.

So when you're traumatized by certain things in certain places, yes. They just, they stay there unless you address them. What I found with therapy work for my betrayal trauma is that a lot of it is mental. Mm-hmm. Lots of talk therapy and not really dealing with the body. I agree. Which would be so much more helpful because we do store so many things in our bodies, but it's really hard to find that kind of care.

Leah: It's. Jen Pastor is a, a writer and she teaches yoga, and uh, [00:12:00] many years ago she taught a yoga writing class with Lydia Yic, and people were doing these stretches and also crying while they're doing them. And then they broke pieces and then, When, and for some people it wouldn't sound horrible. You know, you're gonna write, stretch and cry and then doesn't sound appealing to a lot of people.

But it was, it was wonderful to do. Lydia talks so much about how, that's why it's called corporeal writing. We store in our bodies how our stories are in our bodies and how so much of life keeps us from living in our bodies. Mm-hmm. Yep. And, and I was thinking today about the things that we do naturally as little kids, little kids, we.

We're frowned upon.

I know. So when do you think that is where it starts to be? Not okay to be childlike as, I mean as a woman. Let's just talk about, as a woman,

Rebecca son, it's book, I think it's called, recollections of Myself, and she talks about adolescents and how at that moment we become, People begin to perceive, uh, sexually, you know, don't move like that, or don't sit like that, or cover that up.

Showing off your shoulders. Yeah. And we get so many messages like that, right? About adolescents, and we keep learning to close ourselves. In and get lessons about what is and isn't appropriate. And it keeps on going until we get, unless we say fuck that, and then we get older and then people say, oh, you know, should you really dress like that at your age?

Or you don't want people to think you're trying to look young or, well, you probably shouldn't move that way at your age. Mm-hmm. So it, I think that's when it really starts, that shutting us down. And then the only time we're kind of allowed to be. Our sort of ourselves as well. If you are dating a guy, you know, if you are, I don't know, getting married or something, then maybe it's kind of okay, but then no.

To be kind of yourself as far as, yeah, letting your child, letting

They're inner, inner child. Mm-hmm. And I think I see a lot of women doing that right now. A lot of older women saying, you know, I'm gonna dress the way I want. Mm-hmm. And I'm going to take dance lessons now, however I'm built, or I'm gonna write a play or whatever. Oh, and there's this term that I just learned, the villain era.

Oh, I don't know what that is. I didn't know that until yesterday. A woman on TikTok talked about it and it's when women at whatever age start saying, you know, I'm just going to be myself and I'm not necessarily going to play nice anymore. I'm not going to meet. Society is constraints about what I should be.

Lorna: so we become villains

Leah: in sense. Oh, what is the name of that euphoria? There's a character in Euphoria where she's basically standing up for herself and somebody is saying, you know, kind of as women we're supposed to not be selfish.

And then she said, well, you know, if that's being selfish, then call me a fucking villain. I don't care. Oh, call me a villain. So that's,

Lorna: it's kind of a humorous

Leah: term. Okay. But the kind of standing up for yourself, being a woman who. Is unafraid to be herself and is living unashamedly and doing some things for herself instead of putting everyone else before her could put her into the villain era.

Meeting your full creative potential in every way you can, or almost when women try to do that, we're seen as not, nice. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lorna: So yeah.

Leah: Anyway. I love the term,

Lorna: I think, because you know where that phrase comes from. It means something a little different to you, but being on the outside and not knowing where it comes from.

I don't really like the way that sounds true. I don't wanna be called a villain because of the way that I'm dressing now, or if I wanna dress sexy or I agree. I agree with that. Or I want,

Uhhuh.

Lorna: Yeah. I think there's a lot of reclaiming.

Leah: Yeah. Oh, exciting. Yeah. You really live at exciting times.

Lorna: Yeah. Yeah. And also terrifying

Leah: times. And also terrifying times. It's a not ignoring

Lorna: that part. Yeah. Technology and all of the, Porn and addictions that are out there. Oh, yeah. Technology and And climate change.

And climate change, all of the

Leah: things. Yeah. And they move to control women's bodies more and more. Mm-hmm. All that is, mm-hmm. All that is terrifying. And at the same time, Some things are more freeing. Here we are you. I probably vastly different ages doing a pod, two women doing a podcast. When I was growing up, nothing like that ever would've happened.

Lorna: know, are trying to do whatever you wanna do.

Well, thank you.

Leah: I'm trying, I'm trying to be a little bit nice is are trying to control us even more. Because things are getting out of hand for them.

Right.

Lorna: The patriarchy. Exactly. Republicans that are trying to control our bodies

Leah: and Exactly. Yeah. And this surge of women saying, and it's not seeing that we will not be silenced, for instance.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Vice President Kamala Harris saying before she was vice presidents, I am speaking women refusing to be silenced. Mm-hmm. And it makes me so happy to have lived long enough to see this. Yeah.

Trying to make a change.

Leah: And these are the kinds of women, and you and I, the kinds of women who in earlier times would've been labeled witches. Mm-hmm.

Lorna: Yeah. Burned at the state,

Leah: which reminds me that Sylvia Federici's book, Caliban and the Witch is a. Brilliant book. Is it a fiction No. Or non-fiction? It's his history.

Okay.

Lorna: In Europe, I'm a fiction or a non-fiction person. I'm Oh, for

Leah: non-fiction it's non-fiction. That's what I meant to say. Yeah. I just get so exuberant about everything. I know. We have only so much time, so I tried to say everything

Lorna: y'all at once. I know that you're such an avid reader too, and I'm just, I'm not.

And so, and then, Based on that data, things have been designed for men, like city structures, like cars, like the education system, like healthcare. Yeah. It and how just extensive it is in our world and most of us don't even know about it and think that, well if there's, if it's, there's research behind it, there must be a reason.

Leah: that tall.

There, there's another evidence of patriarchy. Mm-hmm. Invisible patriarchy.

Lorna: Invisible patriarchy.

Leah: Yeah. It's everywhere.

Lorna: So what should we, as women be doing more of, and what should we be, be doing less of as we mature

Leah: more of and lesser? Yes. One thing that comes to mind as an older woman is, Less paying attention to people who say,

No. So why should we do that to ourselves? So that's one thing that I think of as less of and more of delighting absolutely delighting in our bodies in every single way. And more dancing and singing and playing and whatever things that we love to do. Also never giving up in, resistance against patriarchy.

Never, never feeling. It's not that I want us to be afraid, but I want us to stay connected. Uh, Lori So's Women's E-News, it's all about the, make sure that we read newspapers like that and get new ideas about that and talk to younger people about that and make, make sure that we encourage younger people to.

I know. And I have grandkids and I talk to them about these things. Oh, that's great. Yeah. And, and they're. And to their friends. And then a lot of my friends are younger too, actually. I don't have very many friends who are doing my age, who are doing what I'm doing.

Yes. I do think that you are a, a special gem in

that sense.

Thank you. I'm just so grateful to be alive and healthy. It seems kind of remarkable. Yeah.

Lorna: Yeah. It's great. And I feel like, I feel like it's your spirit. There's something inside you that's. Allowing you to, well, thank you. Age amazingly, I guess you'd say Pilates helps too. Pilates helps,

Leah: yeah. Yeah, and, and going.

Dead than I ever have been before in my life. And so I've gotta figure out what can I do and what span, how much good can I do? What small thing can I do to make the world a better, a better place? And I think that kind of thinking is, keeps us connected to life. Keeps, keeps our fire burning.

You lose the health insurance, uh, you could wind up homeless. So, so many of us are barely breathing. Is, isn't that a line, a Mary Oliver line about, are you breathing just a little and calling it a life? Oh, I don't know. That's good though. It's Mary Oliver. Yeah. And many of us are breathing just a little and calling it a life because we feel we don't have any choice.

Mm-hmm. Which takes me back to singing, which takes me back to horseback riding.

Lorna: Well, and it's, that's like a meditation thing too. Exactly. Focusing on your body and your breath. Yes, but I think that my, you know, I'm thinking about family and origin and stuff like that. I was thinking about my mom, who, we talked about this when we met for, yeah.

For tea, coming from a place of poverty and my mom thinking that sh or she actually tried to get out of poverty by going back to school to be a nurse's aid and it just didn't work out for her because she had a bad back. I think it was really hard for her, and I feel like she kind of gave up. On trying to achieve things cuz she was talented too.

So she was very, she was talented and she never really, none of that took off for her because again, I, I mean, for her, I think it had to do with privilege and lack of privilege, like lack of funding and also lack of support too, if you don't Oh, yeah. Have support from family and community. Exactly. You're not, it's really hard to Yes.

Lift yourself up out of difficult situations like that.

And thinking how different her life might have been if she had the kind of support I do. Mm-hmm. She had opportunities like this. Mm-hmm. If she had, the kinds of friends that I have, women are talking about things that they never talked about before. Anyway, in my lifetime, she had no support. Mm-hmm. She have no sisterhood.

She was alone. Also with an abusive husband. Right. There was no like, and you

know,

Lorna: domestic. I watched your YouTube video. Oh, just this morning. Which one was that? You were talking about your childhood with your mom and the abuse there. Oh yeah,

Leah: that was a long time ago. The one in

Lorna: the leopard dress like Yeah.

Mose lady and some coffee, and I sat down and I thought, oh, I should probably watch something of yours since I don't, I haven't seen any of the, your theatrical work or po poetry readings or anything. So I just clicked, found something on YouTube and I tuned in, and then the story came on about you and your mother and.

The abuse that your mother went through and then the abuse that you went through. And I was, I mean, I think I just sat there with my mouth, oh, I'm so sorry for a really long time. And then like the tears came and I was like,

Leah: wow.

Lorna: Wow. So I had to take a moment to kind of collect myself because I was triggered just hearing your story.

Oh, okay. I wanted to talk about how amazing you are. Oh, thank you. And how far you have come. And talk about how you are inspiring to me. Thank you. And

hoping that you can

And then we both cried. Mm-hmm. So what. Women and men and trends, many people are telling the stories that haven't been told before. Mm-hmm. And that's one of the ways that we all, that we help one another. And so many of us have been silenced for so long. And while it can be hard to hear stories like this, we can also look at people who have survived and think Oh, okay.

All right. And they understand how I feel. Mm-hmm. I mean, somebody understands, somebody's been through something like that, and I think that's such a powerful thing. Theater does that for so many of us. Oh, I could go on about theater, which reminds me, there's a show called Myra Story, and it's at Corp Theater, and it begins this Friday, and it's about a woman.

And I really think that helps. The world.

Lorna: Yeah. And it helps validate other women who've been in the same position when they get to hear Yes, yes. That, oh, I'm not alone.

Leah: Yes, absolutely. Yes,

Lorna: yes. Yep. And we can all work together to raise each other up and give each other a voice. Which brings me back too.

Leah: I would call this a renaissance, except that it's never happened before.

So we'll call it, what do you call, only in the

Lorna: shadows, I guess. Yeah.

Leah: And, and all those little movements before led us to this moment. Do

Lorna: we have power to change the world for future women? Do you feel like you have power

Leah: together? We absolutely do. We do have the power. We do, and by working together we get more power.

Lorna: Yeah. I think it, the trick is to stay focused and not be overwhelmed by all of the shit that's going

Leah: wrong.

Yes. And see which I was during, because it's really easy to do. Oh, it's

Lorna: really during, it's like the world is burning. Yes and yes. Yeah. Women are being, are being, continuing to be oppressed across the world, but also Yes. Even more so by Republicans, conservatives.

Leah: Well, that's a, during the Trump, when Trump, I like to say when Trump was squatting in the White House, when he was doing that, I was.

Rather than that, you know, just constantly, I dunno why that,

Leah: presidency. That was a mistake I think many of us made. Not that you made that mistake, but we.

Uh, several people said, oh, he'll never win. Oh, he's guy. Kind of funny. Yeah, we people dismissed Hitler too. I'm not saying he's right as smart as Hitler, but many of us dismissed him. Yes. And because he was so ridiculous, because we thought there's no

Lorna: way and there is no

Leah: way. Right. And I, he was ridiculous.

I thought, I didn't know how many women would vote for him. That was the thing that really, yeah.

Lorna: Astonished and, and with like how racist he is. How many Yeah. Yeah. Minorities would vote for him too. Like, I was just amazed.

Leah: Just amazed. As soon as he came down. The gold elevator to announce his bid for president.

Roe v. Wade will never get turned over. You know, it's been around for. It's not gonna be that bad. And I kept saying, yes it will. Yes it will. And and people like me, men and women, and I know there are more genders than men, women, pastor, to just say men and women with childhoods like mine had grown up with Hitler as a father, with Trump, as a father, with Mussolini, as a father.

Always said, this is never gonna happen. Maybe when they saw what happened on January 6th, they went, oh, well maybe I better take this more seriously. Yeah. So I do think that happened for a lot of people.

Lorna: Yeah. That's I, and again, you know, I can't even believe that he's running for president and I'm planning on leaving the country.

So

Leah: you are planning on leaving church?

Lorna: Yeah, because, because I'm just done with the us I'm, I understand that. I'm just. With the messed up politics here. I mean, not that every other place is perfect and oh, it smells like roses or whatever, but I at least know that abortion is legal. And Portugal,

I know, but I can completely understand. What if I were. Bit younger. I might do that. Yeah. Read more of Rebecca. So one of the books she just recently published, it's, it's called, it's Not Too Late Uhhuh. It's brand new release from. Rebecca sonnet, series of essays, non-fiction, and it's about climate change and global warming and what's happening in other parts of the world and what we can do and the difference between hope and despair and how they, how they can even live alongside of one another.

Mm-hmm. Even recognize us. What is there? There's too despair and still life, and I like to think of hope not as the bird, but as a dragon.

Can you talk to me about hope? That was a question I had. You know why

Leah: I'm laughing? Wow. Well, there you go. I think. I imagine hope as this. Dragon with textured skin, this dragon who's been singed by the flames and still has strength, and I don't know, the, the fragile bird is, isn't with my build and my voice.

I can't be a fragile birdie, even if I wanted to be one. You know, there's that, but also it's, it could be a powerful thing. And one of the ways that tyrants win is when we give up hope. Mm-hmm. And that's what they want us to do. They wanted, and this isn't like, oh, you know, I'm not being fantastic about this.

Mm-hmm. And working alongside of brothers and sisters who are active Yes. Being activist. Yes. And whatever capacity you, and when you have action, you, you don't get hopeless. Mm-hmm. And I think of it as hope as a fiery thing. Hope is a fiery

Lorna: thing. Hope is a fiery,

Leah: fiery dragon. Yeah.

Lorna: So I know that you have a one woman show coming up.

Yes. Do you wanna talk about that and plug any other things that you have going on? Any other writings or?

That's fun. Uh, it is what, uh, and it's eight other women. I have like eight to 10 minute monologues about ghost stories. And some of them are funny and some of them are real and metaphorical ghosts and historical ancestral ghosts. And, uh, my story has to do with, uh, my father doing spiritualism, which is a short version of the story.

But anyway, it's a really good show. Okay, very good. Okay, that's coming up. And is that something that. On Zoom and I can invite you and can other

Lorna: people come

Various people who own small theaters and see about getting it on on a stage. Okay, so here in Portland, Oregon. Absolutely. And it's the shimmer of other lives is about what's happening here. Right here. When you and I are talking to one another in this kind of conversation, There's a shimmering happening between us.

Our bodies are lighting up with delight and our, our, our neurons are firing. So it's emotional connection. It's what happens once you're in, in a theater and someone's on the stage and they do something or say something, and you have this moment of, oh, And it's a play, but you know why they did that thing.

And then you could walk out into the night or day or whether you went to a matinee or whatever and you, you have this new knowledge that will never leave you. That's a shiver. Riding horses, you learn to see the world from the point of view of the horse. Your bodies are connected. Your bodies are one. And for those of us who are sexually abused, overruled.

Leah: I'm excited about life.

Lorna: I know you are, and that's what I love about you.

Leah: Thank you.

Lorna: It's very inspirational for me because I feel like as a woman who's over 50, now that I'm on the other side of the of the fence looking out at the years, you know, nobody ever knows how much time they have left. True, that's true. But I'm not gonna be sitting around waiting for Goudeau.

Leah: That is true.

Lorna: I have things to do.

Probably still is. You're right.

Leah: And Lance Olson just wrote a book called Always Crashing Cards. It's about exactly that, about Bowie in his reinvention and how he could continue to

Lorna: create Yes. He's a person who did that, who kept recreating himself. Yes, yes. And you can just do that until the end of days.

Leah: It's true.

Lorna: You just accept yourself permission to do that.

Leah: Yeah, I'm just saying I can't die. I've got too many books to read. There's too much to do.

Lorna: So when we met again, we had tea together.

Leah: Yes we did.

Lorna: And we talked about theater and we talked about music and dancing and stuff. Yes. And for some reason I don't, we connected on this song

Yes.

From Camelot.

When I was a kid, I used to go to sleep listening to the album, and this was the last song, and I didn't know that it was actually from Camelo. I just thought it was a Blondie song. So Deborah Harry sings it and she does it almost in Octa lower, which is helpful for us. But I wanted us to try and sing it together and we just, we practiced one time before we started recording, so let's.

Let's give it a go. Here we go.

Day

outta time, outta sight. In between

Dry. Dry the rain,

warm the snow weather. The

winds never go. Follow

me, follow me.

Follow me to

where? Through an emerald door

and

Leah: for thousands of breathless ever mourns my life. You shall be only you. Only I will farewell. Well, goodbye.

Lorna: To our home,

Lorna: Thank you for listening to this episode of I Am My Passion Project. New episodes drop every Friday. If you enjoyed this content, please consider sharing with a friend or two or more or leaving a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time, I hope you're able to move through your week speaking your own truth.

And embracing your badass self. I am.