To reach Eryn:

Nostr npub:  npub1e2rd2k45ym2jmctnysfadxumrvrr57vqj69ck6trt2y62c40r0kqs9lx8t

Email:  relthompson@zoho.com

Etsy shop:  https://www.etsy.com/shop/WrensNestHandmade

Because there doesn't seem to be a way to pay in Bitcoin on Etsy, Eryn doesn't post Bitcoin-only items there.

She encourages people to reach out to her through email or nostr if you would like Chinese translation or lessons or pottery.

***

To learn more about Bitcoin: Join the Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.  Visit https://www.meetup.com/womensbitcoinreadingclubwithorangehatter

Please email questions/comments to tali@orangehatter.com

HODL UP is available at www.freemarketkids.com.

Remember: Knowledge is empowerment! 🍊🎩

Mentioned in this episode:

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Bitcoin could change the world and make it difficult for

2

states to exist -my arch nemesis

3

Tali: Hey, everybody.

4

Welcome to Orange Hatter.

5

All right, Eryn, so happy to

have you on Orange Hatter.

6

Can't wait to dive into your background

and lots of really interesting stories.

7

So welcome to the show, Eryn.

8

Eryn: Thank you.

9

I'm really happy to be here.

10

Tali: Thank you for coming Yeah, give our

audience a little sense of your background

11

Eryn: Okay.

12

So I lived most of my

life in North Carolina.

13

I went to the University of North

Carolina at Chapel Hill, got a BA

14

degree, double major with a minor.

15

I double majored in linguistics and Asian

studies, concentration in Chinese language

16

and culture, which is as close as you

can get to majoring in Chinese language.

17

And then I majored in cognitive

science because I was like, I would

18

really love to be a neuroscientist,

and I didn't do so well in chemistry,

19

even though I love chemistry, so

what's an alternative way to get in?

20

I know linguistics, and then

I did nothing with that.

21

So, it's always fascinated me,

like, people, how do they think, how

22

does the brain work, but, you know,

it's kind of on a sideburner now.

23

so now I am a translator of Mandarin.

24

I taught Mandarin for many years

and then went to live in China,

25

got inspired to be a translator

instead and I like doing that.

26

I also am a very artsy person.

27

I'm a potter.

28

I've sold some pieces.

29

I'm building that business up slowly.

30

I would really like to do that.

31

My ultimate goal is to be like

a homesteader and potter and do

32

some translation work and just

do all the things that I enjoy.

33

So basically.

34

I do gig work right now, and art.

35

And I'm soon to be a

mom for the first time.

36

I just turned 35, back in late

August, and I will be having

37

my daughter early November.

38

Tali: I actually have a

similar story with my major.

39

I went to the University of Virginia

and And I spent a year in Japan

40

and I wanted to do a Japanese

major, but that was not offered.

41

So I ended up in Asian studies as well.

42

And my specialty was Japanese language.

43

So my first job was also.

44

a translator.

45

So I want to dive into that a little bit.

46

What kind of stuff do you translate?

47

Eryn: It's gig work, so it's

basically whatever people

48

want who are willing to pay.

49

And it has been across the board.

50

Most of it has been in the video game

industry translating texts of video

51

games or advertisements for video games.

52

and I really like that.

53

But some of it has also been, um, like

a user manual, or hey, my company shut

54

down that I was teaching for, but I'm

still willing to teach your children.

55

So here's my information kind of letters

that she then sent out to the parents

56

of the kids she was teaching English

to, all over the map, everything.

57

Tali: How do people find you to

do their translation services?

58

Eryn: Well, a couple different ways.

59

I'm on Fiverr.

60

Um, and I have, my website . My website

needs a little work, to be honest.

61

But people have found me through my

website that is from my teaching days.

62

And, uh, I need to be more clear on it

about I do translation now, everyone!

63

But people have actually found me

to do translation for them through

64

it, so it still kind of works.

65

but it there's some room for improvement.

66

Anyway.

67

But yeah, various methods.

68

Also, like, sending out to people

in person, Hey, I'm a translator!

69

and just kind of word of

mouth, uh, networking.

70

And that's actually how I got my...

71

Translation gig that I

did for Bitcoin as well.

72

So I have so far done one

translation gig paid in Bitcoin.

73

That was actually through like a friend

of a friend or somebody that he knew.

74

And I'm like, yeah, this is great.

75

Tali: Are you allowed to talk

about that Bitcoin project?

76

Eryn: I think so.

77

Um, hmm.

78

So, maybe not so much because...

79

This person was very concerned about

doxxing, like, I assumed that he knew

80

my friend who put me in touch with him

and knew where he lived as a general

81

rule, like, oh, that's where I live.

82

And he's like, don't doxx this person.

83

I can't know that.

84

I'm like, oh, okay.

85

I didn't realize.

86

I mean, that's a large area, you know,

I didn't think I was being bad sharing

87

that, but I'm like, okay, so maybe I

can't go too in depth, but basically

88

I was translating a pamphlet that was

would be handed out to small businesses

89

to encourage them to accept Bitcoin and

become part of this parallel economy.

90

Um, so I, that was actually

an English to Chinese project.

91

And, um, most of my work is the other way.

92

\ that's interesting, like the guy

drafted in English and he's like,

93

can you translate this is Chinese?

94

So I'm assuming that it's going to

people who speak Chinese, maybe not in

95

China, but maybe in Taiwan, maybe in

like Singapore or maybe in Chinatown.

96

I don't know, Flushing,

New York or something.

97

Tali: Yeah, that was

going to be my question.

98

Is it allowed?

99

Like, can they hand out

pamphlets like that in China?

100

I wasn't sure.

101

Eryn: I would guess not, I mean, because,

I know vague things, even though I lived

102

there for a while, I know vague things

about, like, what's legal, what's not,

103

and that might be a little bit because...

104

How things are enforced is

a little vague in China.

105

So for example, street sellers,

completely illegal, but they're

106

everywhere and nobody cracks it down,

except sometimes when they feel like it.

107

Um, there's like a lot of

other things that go on too.

108

Like the company that I had worked

for when I was there, like, oh yeah,

109

I'm going to work for this company.

110

They're on the up and up.

111

It's fine.

112

Oh yeah, behind the scenes,

they're bribing officials to

113

be able to stay in business.

114

everyone has to.

115

So it's, very gray area.

116

What is acceptable what's not,

117

Technically not acceptable

to do Bitcoin in China.

118

And yet I know that it is done.

119

So, uh, on Noster, I've been

hanging out on Noster a lot.

120

And what that is, is kind of

like email as a protocol and I'm

121

not a technical person, so I'm.

122

halfway parroting this and

halfway understanding it.

123

Uh, just like email is a protocol

and you can have Gmail to use email.

124

You can have Yahoo to use email.

125

You can have whatever to use email.

126

Noster is a protocol for,

basically having a social network

127

or actually other things too.

128

It's a little interesting.

129

People are like, what if we did

blah, blah, blah with Noster, like

130

Steam, the video game platform,

like emulate that sort of thing or

131

like other things that I wouldn't.

132

Normally think of for it, but

they think of like, we can

133

use this protocol for this.

134

And I'm like, I don't see how,

but okay, go ahead and try.

135

Um, but yeah, it's an interesting thing

to be learning about anyway, what it is.

136

It's a circle back around is mostly used

to be like Twitter, quote unquote, except

137

it's decentralized and uncensorable, can't

be shut down, , and that's interesting.

138

And people also love using Bitcoin on it.

139

They'll zap each other's sats.

140

So like, if you write something that

people like, then they'll send you

141

pieces of Bitcoin and it's very cool.

142

And you can do the same to them.

143

So.

144

Anyway, I'm on Noster a lot these

days, and I was consciously trying to

145

find, , Chinese people to follow , it's

not my native language, so I need it in

146

front of me a lot in order to keep it.

147

So the more Chinese I see day to day,

the more Chinese I use day to day, the

148

better a translator I'm going to be,

and the less I'm going to feel like

149

I'm just like, oh, I'm horrible, I'm

letting this go, I'm losing my skills.

150

. So I was finding people to follow

and yeah, there are Chinese people

151

who speak Mandarin Chinese, not

Cantonese and use simplified characters,

152

not traditional characters, which

means they're not from Taiwan.

153

They're on here and they're using Bitcoin.

154

Uh, at least a couple of them that

are, like, two out of the three or

155

so that I've so far found to follow,

are currently living in Japan.

156

So that might be part of it, but

I don't think all of them are.

157

I think some of them are just

being sneaky and good for them.

158

So

159

Tali: Yeah, I don't think a lot of

people know this, but Chinese characters,

160

there are two different types.

161

There's the traditional, which are used,

I believe, in Taiwan and Singapore.

162

And then you have the simplified, a

format that was promoted by communist

163

China years ago to make it easier.

164

And like Ping Ying was created

to make it easier for foreigners

165

to use their language.

166

And so I was born and raised in Taiwan.

167

So that's the language I know.

168

Those are the characters I know.

169

And so when I have to translate.

170

traditional to simplify, it actually

is a bit of a challenge for me.

171

So when you started studying Chinese,

were you exclusively exposed to

172

the simplified Chinese and pinging?

173

Eryn: yes, I was exclusively exposed

to Simplified and, um, kind of

174

funny story at the very first.

175

My Yeah, very first class ever.

176

My teacher didn't believe in pinyin.

177

She's like, I'm not going to use this

with you, uh, or anyone else in the class.

178

and I do kind of respect that,

but at the same time it also led

179

me to make some silly mistakes.

180

So, um, I appreciate that it

forced me to pay attention

181

to what do things sound like.

182

But what I don't like is that

it sometimes led me to think

183

the wrong thing was being said.

184

And what I mean by that is, so, zhōng

guó, right, China, zhōng, like, that

185

ends in like an ng type sound, right?

186

But because I didn't know anything about

Chinese phonology yet, this was my first

187

class, and I have no letters to look at

to help me understand what I'm hearing.

188

I thought it was jōng guō with an m

sound at the end, and Chinese does not

189

have m sounds at the end of anything.

190

So I'm like, I didn't hear that right.

191

So then when I started learning

pinyin later, I'm like, oh, that

192

sounds the same as this sound and

oh, nothing ever ends in m ever.

193

So yeah, so Pinyin can help, but

yeah, I agree it can also really hurt.

194

And so when I was teaching, I

was very, very careful to tell my

195

students, don't let Pinyin confuse you.

196

Please listen to what I say

and only let it help you.

197

But primarily listen to what I say

for pronunciation guide, because it's.

198

Pinyin is written with English

letters and the letters do not always

199

sound like the English equivalent.

200

So for example, R is

a really good example.

201

So in English, R sounds like ra.

202

And in Chinese, it's, if it's

at the beginning of a word,

203

it's going to be kind of zhe.

204

So it's between R and

like the zhe in garage.

205

It's an important distinction.

206

And

207

A U, the letter U, depending on

what comes after or before it,

208

it can sound completely different

and sometimes be literally a

209

sound not spurred in English ever.

210

Kind of the E, or Uber from German.

211

Um, it's sometimes called

the French U as well.

212

So, I could nerd out

about linguistics all day.

213

I can tell you, study IPA, the

International Phonetic Alphabet.

214

That will help you to understand

whatever sound you hear in any

215

language, this sort of thing.

216

But...

217

Basically, yeah.

218

Um, all this to say, yeah, I studied

pinyin, but, um, simplified characters.

219

So I find traditional characters

sometimes, uh, stump me.

220

Like, I'll be reading a thing, and

then I'll just, like, stop because

221

I don't recognize this character.

222

I'm like, oh, it's a

traditional character.

223

What exactly is this again?

224

I know some of them.

225

I don't know all of them.

226

I was never formally taught them.

227

I should probably teach

myself at this point, but...

228

Yeah.

229

Tali: When my kids were growing up, I

tried to just Play Disney movies that

230

have been dubbed over in Mandarin so

that they can just hear the sound But

231

I never actually taught them Chinese

now that they're grown they want to

232

learn and they're learning it from the

internet My son will come downstairs

233

from his room and he would say does

this make any sense and he'll blur

234

out something and I'll be looking At

his mouth move without any context.

235

I have no idea what he's saying that's

the con side of doing it with Ping

236

Yingrui, is you get stuck thinking

about any English, but there are so many

237

nuances that are required in the Chinese

238

Eryn: Yeah.

239

Tali: that tells you what the word is.

240

And the same sound can

mean 25 different things.

241

So without context, it was.

242

He will always be like, you

don't know what I'm saying.

243

No, I'm sorry.

244

I just I have no idea But yeah, when

I first graduated I was a translator

245

for a law firm I was hired to

translate Japanese electronic

246

Engineering patents to English.

247

And I don't have an

engineering background.

248

So I remember in Japanese, one

sentence can go for entire paragraph.

249

And they, and that you have to decipher

from the edges and then kind of

250

slowly work your way into the middle.

251

And I remember spending hours just trying

to figure out what one paragraph meant.

252

And then I'll translate it into English.

253

It wouldn't make any sense to me because

I don't have engineering background.

254

I'll bring it to the lawyer

who hired me and my boss.

255

And I'll say, does this

make any sense to you?

256

He goes, yeah, it's perfect.

257

Keep going.

258

I'm like, okay.

259

Eryn: Oh, that, that reminds me of

one of my favorite projects I had,

260

actually, um, uh, translation project.

261

Uh, this guy was trying to get into grad

school and he wanted me to translate

262

his letter to apply to grad school.

263

And it talked about his,

like, what has he done?

264

Uh, he was an engineer.

265

So I, I really, really loved doing

this, but at the same time, it was

266

like, kind of, I don't know these words.

267

I have to look up these words, but

it was, um, all about technical

268

stuff that he'd done with robotics.

269

And he did some amazing things like from

making a trash can that could, I to say

270

in Chinese, it could tie up the bag, , by

itself when it knew the bag was full.

271

, And all the way to, like, he wanted

to work with robotic eyeballs.

272

And I'm just like, man, this guy is cool.

273

I hope he gets into grad school and

I'm going to do my best to help him.

274

So, yeah, , that was probably one of

my favorite projects that I ever did.

275

And I, you know, I kind of forgot

about that until you said that.

276

Like, yeah, that was a great project.

277

What did your parents,

can I ask you a question?

278

What did your, what did your

family think of you being

279

interested in learning Japanese?

280

Was there anything like, oh, they occupied

us, this is bad, why would you do this?

281

Or was it good for you, this is cool,

you're learning about another culture,

282

or this is your passion, we love it.

283

What was this like for you?

284

Tali: You know, that's

a really great question.

285

I thought they would be really against

it because my mom grew up in Taiwan she

286

was born right after the Japanese left.

287

My dad had bad experiences,

during the war with the Japanese.

288

So I thought that they

would be really against it.

289

But that was back in the very early

290

economy was just really surging.

291

And everybody who wanted to go into

business wanted to study Japanese.

292

So it was just a logical choice.

293

And so when I told them I was going to

study Japanese, logically, they just

294

thought, yeah, of course, because that's

where the world's going right now.

295

But they never tried to stop me.

296

And I don't know what

they thought exactly.

297

They didn't share it with me.

298

But

299

Eryn: Interesting.

300

Tali: okay, let's jump into a little

bit more about your background.

301

You mentioned that you are a libertarian.

302

Eryn: Yes.

303

Yes.

304

So.

305

Yeah, um, so, I'm a pretty

radical libertarian.

306

Uh, I've, I got into libertarianism

kind of end of high school.

307

I was thinking really hard about

And , at the time I was like,

308

Oh, of course I'm a Republican.

309

But then I kept saying , well,

they think these things and do I

310

really think that these things,

uh, it seems a little arbitrary.

311

And if there's one thing that I

hated, it was arbitrary rules.

312

So naturally I became libertarian.

313

And then it didn't take me very long.

314

Cause I kept thinking about like, well.

315

Okay, so, , how much

government do we really need?

316

And so, I was, like, researching

this sort of idea, and, , freshman

317

year of college, just in trying

to learn about natural rights.

318

Like, there's this thing that I've

heard of called natural rights.

319

That sounds very natural and simplistic.

320

Why don't I learn more about that?

321

And there was, just happened to be a

link at the bottom of the Wikipedia

322

article, To a, then at the time, free

ebook, , and I read it and, uh, I was

323

just like, it just walked me through all

the steps to why anarchy is a good idea.

324

So now that's what I am.

325

So I could say I'm an involuntarist.

326

I could say I'm an anarcho capitalist.

327

I could say I'm a libertarian.

328

All these things are true, kind

of related concepts, but they're

329

not really the same thing.

330

But, um.

331

I am all three.

332

Uh, so yeah.

333

And um, I guess as far as very earliest

background of why this philosophy, , it

334

would be a shame not to mention my

dad was very libertarian leaning.

335

He describes himself as libertarian.

336

, and he would occasionally put things in

my head, like, uh, I was homeschooled.

337

And I really liked that.

338

I liked being homeschooled and he

was like, well, what if everybody

339

voted to make homeschooling illegal?

340

And I was just like, very indignant

about this because he was trying to say

341

there's something better than democracy.

342

And I'm just like, there, nothing

can be better than democracy.

343

Like this is just a given of life.

344

So, but he tried to put those ideas

in front of me very rarely, but I was

345

not receptive until late high school.

346

Late, late high school.

347

, but he, like, I was part of the way

there, like, he also, , part of my

348

homeschooling curriculum was, yeah, I had

to learn about economics, and I learned

349

about economics in two different ways.

350

, this was intentional on

the part of my parents.

351

They wanted me to see, , what

do most people learn?

352

It's like Keynesian economics.

353

And then also there's another

way to think about things.

354

Um, Austrian economics.

355

So...

356

Uh, I read the Keynesian economics book.

357

I'm like, okay, whatever.

358

And then I read, , things like,

whatever happened to penny candy, I

359

think was the name of one of the books.

360

Um, and then some other things

like chats with my parents

361

and , there's this other way.

362

And I'm like, oh, okay, whatever economics

was really not something I was very

363

interested in, but I think that one made

more sense to me, but it didn't seem like

364

an extremely controversial thing, at the

time, but of course it is, um, but uh,

365

yeah, so there was exposure to ideas when

I was a kid, but that was never really

366

where my focus was, was like money stuff,

definitely wasn't why I got into Thank

367

This political philosophy at all either.

368

I think that's not true for most

libertarians or anarchists or

369

voluntarists, they often get into

it through the economics route.

370

That wasn't it for me.

371

It was about like.

372

Honestly, like an idea of fairness

and , just a kind of radical idea

373

of, I don't think that it's right

to interfere with other people.

374

, so long as they're not

interfering with me.

375

What does that actually look like

taken to its natural conclusion.

376

. So, yeah, I guess I ended

up at the end of that road.

377

Tali: Would you mind explaining

the nuances between those three?

378

Eryn: Sure, I can try.

379

, it's been a while since this was,

like, really, like, laid out perfectly.

380

And I'm like, oh yeah, I get

how these things are different.

381

, voluntarism basically means that human

interactions should be voluntary.

382

You shouldn't compel other people.

383

Force.

384

, that's a very important part of my ideas.

385

, anarcho capitalism is basically

anarchy, meaning no rulers, no rules,

386

no rulers, , and in this sense,

what we're talking about is again,

387

stuff, rulers who are based in like

initiating violence against people.

388

It also embraces capitalism as kind

of a natural way to relate to others.

389

that respects property rights.

390

So, basically, like, if we're going

to have property rights, if we're

391

going to say things like, oh, well,

I made this cup out of clay and fired

392

it, , then, it's mine to sell or not.

393

You can't then say,

oh, I get to take this.

394

It's like, no.

395

, so, you and I can come to an agreement

Like, what circumstances will I give the

396

cup to you or maybe that circumstance

doesn't exist because I like it.

397

I want to keep it, you know, I think

capitalism gets a bad rap because it's

398

like a loaded word for a lot of people.

399

But when I've seen this, , as a

concept and people are like dissing

400

capitalism, I think that a lot of the

time they're wrapping other things

401

into it that don't necessarily belong.

402

And oftentimes have to do

with how capitalism presents

403

in the context of the state.

404

So, for example, one recent one that

I've heard is the idea of regulatory

405

capture, which is basically like it,

like, for example, Kellogg cereal.

406

We'll just say a cereal company, comes

up on the scene in kind of the wild

407

west of cereal companies when no

one, , is really doing that and they

408

make, , an amazing cereal kind of empire.

409

Everyone wants to buy their cereal.

410

Then they go to the state and say, Will

you pass some laws for me that that makes

411

it difficult, to start a cereal company.

412

, we have very, very stringent requirements

to start a cereal company now.

413

, you have to pass this test and

that test, or maybe you have

414

to produce a certain amount.

415

, and, oh, it looks like it hurts me,

but it doesn't actually, because what

416

it does is it keeps my competitors

from even coming up at all.

417

So this is called regulatory capture.

418

And this does not happen in anarchy,

because you don't have a state.

419

That can do that sort of thing.

420

You have to deal with your competitors.

421

So it's just like pure capitalism.

422

, and libertarianism is basically the

idea that we should maximize, we

423

should work to maximize liberty.

424

So, you'll then run into a lot

of libertarians who, like me, are

425

also anarchists, also voluntarists.

426

, most libertarians are voluntarists,

so maybe more or less agree.

427

But, then you'll run into others

who are just, who are what we would

428

call minarchists, which means...

429

Oh, we should have as little government

as possible to promote liberty, because

430

government cannot give you liberty,

government can only give you things

431

that you gave them first, often things

that you were compelled to give them.

432

So, these are basically how

I could define these things.

433

Tali: I feel very ignorant

about these issues.

434

I tend not to think too much about

political, , labels just because I just,

435

I grow tired of, mudslinging every

four years And in between all that

436

it's, it muddies the waters and I don't

understand what the heck is going on.

437

I can't sort through what's

said as truth and lies.

438

It's just gotten very confusing.

439

And so I tend to just shy away from that.

440

So I'm just going to ask follow

up questions out of my and

441

Eryn: go for it.

442

Tali: you want minimal government, in

what circumstance would you be happy

443

that we have a body of enforcers for,

property rights and things like that?

444

Because when there's No law whatsoever

the strong oppresses the weak.

445

Can you help me understand how would

anarchy work if you need someone to

446

help you protect your stuff from people

who are stronger with bad intentions?

447

Eryn: so glad you asked that in exactly

that way, something that people commonly

448

ask is like, What if warlords took over?

449

And I just want to say, look, around you,

the warlords have already taken over.

450

Your rights are under threat.

451

They are...

452

Reduced beyond what they should be.

453

And this is all enforced

with the threat of violence.

454

Where I live now, the outskirts of

DC, this is where the warlords are.

455

They're here.

456

And they're also literal warlords wreaking

havoc around the world with forever wars.

457

So, it's already going on.

458

What I want to do is get rid of warlords.

459

I want there to be, I want

this to not be the situation.

460

It should all be based on consent.

461

And so like I would say, we agree

that it's important to protect

462

our property rights, right?

463

So I guess not everyone agrees.

464

There are definitely people

who do not agree, but.

465

, for the purposes of this conversation, I

think most people really do on some level.

466

So, this is a service, just like

any other vitally important service,

467

like getting food, getting water.

468

Right now, the government does not provide

everyone food, and yet we get food.

469

Right?

470

How do we do that?

471

Through the market.

472

So, there's no real

reason we couldn't have...

473

We couldn't hire people to

protect us, protect our property

474

through the market as well.

475

And this would probably be done

better because everything the

476

government touches, they do badly.

477

So everything the market touches can

be improved continually and actually

478

suits what consumers really want.

479

So It could be much, much better in ways

that we probably can't even predict.

480

It will be fun to see

if it can ever happen.

481

There are many different ways

in which this could go down.

482

You could hire, , a protection agency.

483

Your neighborhood can hire a protection

agency if you all agree to pitch in.

484

Like, oh, there's a neighborhood

watch and , if there's a problem,

485

then you can call them or they

may be patrol around or maybe not.

486

It depends on what you guys want.

487

, basically the market will provide

because that's what it does.

488

, and in a better way than things that,

because there is no competition,

489

because if there ever was competition,

then they would be thrown in jail

490

or killed, it will be better.

491

, , And just to clarify, , a minarchist would

want as little government as possible,

492

well, I shouldn't even say government, as

little state as possible, so, government

493

is a little more ambiguous of a term,

it can refer to, like, we associate it

494

with the state, which is, they have the

monopoly on force, they are allowed,

495

quote unquote, to initiate force, I

shouldn't even say quote unquote, by

496

and large, we allow them to do this.

497

This is just what we accept

as reasonable for some reason.

498

, but government can refer to either that

because we associate it with that or

499

with like civil governments, which can

just mean, Oh, we have these rules.

500

It can be a little of an ambiguous term.

501

So government is not always necessarily

a bad word, but I think the state.

502

Is not a good thing.

503

Tali: So.

504

One of the first questions that popped

into my mind is, , how can we give

505

consequence to people who do bad?

506

If we don't have, , that central,

whatever you call it, government,

507

, group of people how do we give

consequences, then, to the market?

508

Eryn: Some of them might be like, because

we as a community have agreed to a certain

509

set of rules, and you've been , outside

of that, , we don't want you to , shop

510

at our store, we don't want you to use

this facility that, , to the rest of us

511

is public, so you're basically exiled.

512

, this is one thing.

513

Another, another thing that I didn't

really get into as far as like, Oh, how,

514

how will we have people to protect us?

515

Um, is the idea that this can be done or

conceptualized sort of like insurance.

516

So, just Like you might pay

into an insurance type of agency.

517

Like, Oh, if I've done something that

has gotten me into trouble, maybe

518

I didn't do it, maybe I did, , then

you'll help me work this out.

519

If you do terrible things all the

time, that insurance might drop you.

520

, so, then you're uninsured and maybe

no community wants you in to be there.

521

Because, just like, you know, you might,

this is a bit of a, this is a bit of a

522

weird, , one because This is also done

by the state, but like an example is , if

523

you don't have car insurance, you can't

drive on the roads right now, right?

524

So if you don't have, oh, I killed a

dude insurance or didn't kill a dude

525

insurance, then you can't enter, right?

526

Because clearly something

is wrong with you.

527

If no one will insure you,

probably you've killed a dude.

528

Um, so, this sort of thing.

529

Tali: I guess the image that pops into

my mind , when you're talking about

530

the community either accepting , or

basically ousting you based on your

531

behavior is the scarlet letter, she

did something that the community

532

disagree with and she basically was

ousted even though she wasn't exiled.

533

So she was wearing the scarlet

letter and she had to live with

534

the consequence of her choices.

535

So.

536

I don't know if that's better or worse

than the system we have now because then

537

you're talking about a very small group

of people and in that case, it was the

538

village that she was in dealing out the

consequence of behavior that they don't

539

all agree with in that in some sense, I

feel like that's, that can also be very

540

restrictive, unless you want to leave

that village and go to another village.

541

Whereas now, as unfair as we think our

system is, you have the freedom To be

542

who you are, depending on what that

is, or move to a different city and,

543

because we're not all in villages

where people recognize each other,

544

you can go from one city to another

and start over, maybe meet people who

545

are like minded, that kind of thing.

546

So I don't know, in my head, I,

that scenario comes up when a.

547

Eryn: I might see it as easier to...

548

Move away to another village or

something even larger or something

549

even smaller Kind of community.

550

I might see it is easier to make that

move and it be something radically

551

different that maybe matches your values

under anarchy Because what we actually

552

have is we have a federal government

and then that enforces a lot of laws

553

across all 50 states Which, I think

originally were meant to be a little

554

bit more different from each other than

the federal system has caused to happen.

555

, and then within the state, , those are

pretty large areas as well, but if you

556

actually had anarchy, it could be really,

really small, granular maps, right?

557

, what kind of area is...

558

is doing what kind of system.

559

, it could be extremely different from one

place to another, or it might not be.

560

There's really no way to know,

but I do think that it would be a

561

little easier to start over maybe.

562

, my husband is also an anarchist, and

he and I have talked about, we love

563

talking philosophy and stuff, and we've

talked about , oh well, what if all

564

the murderers, because they couldn't

get insured anywhere, what if they

565

all went to live on Murderer Island,

and everyone on Murderer Island is a

566

murderer, and, , I guess they're gonna

get along with each other as well as

567

murderers can, but, they're where nobody

else wants to be, so, there they are.

568

And it's kind of like the concept

maybe of a biblical city of refuge,

569

like there is a place they can go.

570

There's, there's that idea.

571

I, I think that there's more room for

diversity under anarchy than there

572

is under the system we have now.

573

Because what you have is a very top down

system of enforcing rules that some,

574

average of people have, over time, thought

up to set into stone instead of, oh, hey,

575

well, we agreed to do this other way.

576

You know, there's more

opportunity with freedom.

577

, that's what I think anyway.

578

Tali: What about national security?

579

Then if everybody's just in their own

little like minded bubble, what about

580

national security, what do you think?

581

Eryn: Well, there wouldn't be a nation.

582

, because it's anarchy,

there wouldn't be a state.

583

I might also say a lot of what you

have in the world today with Wars

584

and conflicts across the globe.

585

What this is, is states

fighting each other.

586

If you just had, , people, then you're

not going to have such a big problem

587

with, Oh, well, we're going to muster

all the power of this forced taxation

588

of the entire population of our

country, and we're going to make these

589

weapons of war that can take out a

continent and cause fallout everywhere.

590

And just absolutely destroy

everybody that what reason would

591

somebody have to do this if they

are just trying to live their life.

592

Um, so there's that aspect of it.

593

But again, it kind of like the

insurance model is a fun one to

594

think about, , problems such as

this, like, if this is really a

595

problem, like, okay, and Kapistan,

as people like to call it exists,

596

hypothetically here, and everyone's

just living their best capitalist life.

597

Somehow people, instead of wanting to

trade with you, just want to blow you up

598

still, which I find a little less likely.

599

I think that, , oh, there's

prosperity, let's trade with

600

them instead of destroy them, is

probably a more reasonable reaction.

601

But let's say somebody still just wants

to blow y'all up, , what, what do you do?

602

Maybe you actually perceive

this as a real threat.

603

And you have some kind of, , insurance

system that you voluntarily pay them

604

to, , patrol the skies, patrol the

seas, and, , shoot down missiles.

605

There's no reason this can't be voluntary.

606

It's just, you have to actually believe

in it instead of have it taken from

607

you whether you believe in it or not.

608

I

609

Tali: Well, if we look at it from game

theory, right now, most of the globe,

610

aside from maybe the really remote

villages that are outside modern

611

life, ? Most systems in the world

today are central government systems.

612

So if you want to go the route that

you're envisioning, you kind of don't

613

want to be the first one because the

moment you don't have a central protector,

614

I want to just call it even though

that's really not what we mean, if we

615

theoretically, if we decided to become

a anarchist society, but the other

616

countries haven't, they can come in force

and we would be just all divided and

617

with no centralized way of, , gathering

resources with money and with people

618

and with strategy to defend ourselves.

619

Eryn: still see the centralized...

620

And it's not even that it's

centralized, it's that it's

621

non voluntary as the problem.

622

Oh, some other people want to

make a state over you, when you

623

just got rid of your last state.

624

How much worse off are you?

625

You already had a bad state over you.

626

, I don't know, I think people

might be willing to figure out how

627

to keep that from happening, if

that's something they believe in.

628

, I don't think being the

first one is necessarily bad.

629

, I think that, , probably somebody has to.

630

,

You can see that there are many states in the world today, like

631

you said, they're, they already

have varying degrees of, , how much

632

freedom they allow people to have.

633

Not all of them are at war with each

other, so I think there's something to

634

be said for, it's, it doesn't necessarily

follow that someone's going to invade

635

you right away, but even if they tried,

, you could do your best as a group of

636

people, just without aggressing on each

other as well, and I don't see why you

637

don't have as much of a chance as a

state of the same size, you might have

638

a better chance because you're able to

cooperate voluntarily instead of, you

639

know, have disgruntled people who are

like, Yeah, I don't want to fight for you.

640

People are going to be there

of their own free will.

641

Tali: So it sounds like

the keyword is voluntary.

642

Eryn: Mm hmm.

643

Absolutely.

644

, I would encourage you and anybody

else to look up the idea of

645

the non aggression principle.

646

, there are other ways to approach anarchy.

647

There are like fully practical

ways to approach anarchy

648

that don't involve this idea.

649

But I love this idea.

650

, and I hope that people will look

into it and just say, Hey, doesn't

651

this actually make a lot of sense?

652

Because I think it does.

653

Um, but yeah, that's the

core of it all, is voluntary.

654

Don't steal from people.

655

Don't threaten to hurt them to

get them to do what you want.

656

And that's what the state does best.

657

Tali: Well, I'll just, circle back

to something you mentioned before.

658

You grew up, you were homeschooled,

and you're about to become a mom.

659

And I just remember specifically

when my kids were younger, , trying

660

to decide between two assumptions.

661

Since you study Chinese, I assume that

you know the Chinese three letter poetry.

662

I don't know how it's exactly translated.

663

Eryn: Yeah, isn't this called like sansi?

664

Is that it?

665

Okay.

666

Tali: And so what is the

first three words say?

667

People are born good.

668

Right.

669

Well, actually the first six

words, people are born good.

670

Whereas in the Western

culture with Christianity and

671

Judaism, people are born bad.

672

If you make one assumption and you follow

it, then you can say, everybody has the

673

innate desire to be good and successful.

674

That's their nature.

675

If you look at children, not

the abused children, but.

676

children, they are happy they have

to learn the rules of engagement.

677

Of course, because they might grab

snacks out of somebody's hand,

678

but they, they show more love

more freely than adults, really.

679

But if you make the assumption that

they are born bad, and we have to

680

correct their behavior, and now

you have the requirement to put in.

681

rules and guidelines and train

them out of their badness.

682

So I think it depends on what

assumption we follow when we're

683

looking at people in general.

684

Eryn: Hmm.

685

So, yeah, I might, as a Christian

person, I might give a little more

686

nuance to the Christian position.

687

There are definitely people who do

believe that people are born bad.

688

This is a simple black and white issue.

689

My own perspective is...

690

We're all images of God and

we were created to be good.

691

We do have a fallen nature.

692

We're not going to be completely good.

693

But to me, this means it's more of a mix.

694

, people are born to be good, but also bad.

695

And that's what you end up seeing.

696

. So, there is a tendency to long for

God, there's a tendency to seek after

697

him, and then there's also a tendency

to fall short of that, and to pursue

698

our fleshly desires, , both happen,

, so, I would just add that nuance, but

699

yeah, your assumption of what people

are like Is going to color how you see

700

the world and how you raise children

and just how you deal with everyone.

701

, but I would say this.

702

I would say no matter what you think,

, if you believe people are bad, then why

703

would you want a government made of people

to rule over other people because then

704

you just have the bad leading the bad.

705

This isn't going to work.

706

If you believe people are

good, then why don't you want

707

to leave people alone, right?

708

Let them pursue their interests,

because, but yeah, from my own

709

perspective is a blend of these two.

710

, Because that's, I guess, how

I see the world of people.

711

Tali: Yeah, thank you for

clarifying the nuance.

712

I totally understand what you're saying.

713

And yeah, I mean, people are a blend.

714

But I do think that as parents and

as as the way we perceive our daily

715

experiences, what you assume Gives you

meaning to your experiences, right?

716

So I love this discussion.

717

This has been really fun.

718

Let's bring it back to Bitcoin

719

Eryn: Yeah!

720

Tali: Let's talk Bitcoin

721

Eryn: Cool, cool.

722

Yeah, this is fun.

723

Tali: Let's talk about how you first

heard about Bitcoin and Let's talk about

724

your journey from discovery to conviction

725

Eryn: All right.

726

, so, I was in college and, like I

mentioned, freshman year of college,

727

, very early on, I discovered anarchy.

728

And I decided I'm going

to tell everyone about it.

729

, This was just, , I had been raised to

not talk about anything controversial,

730

don't talk about politics with anyone,

don't talk about religion with anyone,

731

unless you're really, really, really

sure they're interested, and just be

732

really careful what you say, or people

might not like you, and then they might

733

be mean to you, and it's like, oh, yes,

yes, of course, this makes lots of sense.

734

I felt very stifled on some level.

735

That was through high school,

basically just very carefully reading

736

situations to see who can I reveal

my inner thoughts to, and keeping

737

it shallow with everyone else.

738

And I decided because I was sick of

that college is going to be different.

739

I'm going to make sure

everyone knows the real me.

740

And if they don't like

it, then that's fine.

741

And if they like it, then that's great.

742

So I'm going to be outspoken and loud

and completely change my personality.

743

So I did.

744

. Um, I went around talking about anarchy

all the time, and yeah, so people knew

745

that's what I liked, people knew that's

what I thought, and my one friend came

746

up to me and said, have you heard about

Bitcoin, and I'm like, no, , and he

747

said, it seems like something you might

like, because it's a different sort

748

of currency that isn't controlled by

the state, and it's all electronic,

749

and then that's where he lost me,

because I was not an economist, and

750

My perspective was, whatever people

want to use as currency, that's fine.

751

Oh, hey, it doesn't involve

the state, that's great.

752

But it doesn't sound good to me because I

think everything should be based on gold.

753

, gold is the only thing that makes sense.

754

Uh, good parrot voice.

755

, this is what I thought.

756

, cause, like...

757

I guess I had been convinced, , it's very

hard money, you can't easily inflate it,

758

and it doesn't decay, and everybody has

seen it as valuable for most of human

759

history across most Human cultures, , of

course, not all, , but, , that sort of

760

idea had , kind of default captured me.

761

This is a very common thing to hear in

the circles that I was looking at online.

762

And Bitcoin was very, very new.

763

So let me tell you how new it was

when my friend told me about this.

764

One Bitcoin was worth ten US dollars.

765

So I could have gone out

there and bought Bitcoin.

766

Several Bitcoin if I hadn't been

so stingy as a poor student.

767

, but also I wasn't really that interested

because I'm like, it's not gold.

768

It's just a computer code.

769

People can make more of that.

770

Why would anyone care about this?

771

, but I'm like more power to them,

find whatever you want to do.

772

I don't think that, currency

has to be like legal tender.

773

I think use what you want.

774

And to do the market in whatever

way that's fine for you, but

775

I'm going to get gold someday.

776

, and of course I had some second

thoughts and you know, I'm

777

like, well, what if I'm wrong?

778

And I looked a little bit into, well, how

do I get some, like, how do you mine it?

779

And I'm like, I don't know

how to set this stuff up.

780

I'm not that technical.

781

I'm basically computer savvy for

a millennial, but , I don't know

782

how to set up a Bitcoin miner.

783

none of that seemed accessible at all.

784

Like the idea of a wallet even

didn't seem accessible at all.

785

So I gave up.

786

I'm like, no, I can't figure this out.

787

And it's, plus it's like 10.

788

So like, nah, I'm going to save

that for some concert tickets.

789

So.

790

I slept on that.

791

And then years later, I didn't even

think about it really that much anymore.

792

And then I kinda heard, oh hey,

there were thousands of dollars now.

793

And I'm like, wait, what?

794

Okay.

795

Still doesn't make a lot of

sense to me, but whatever.

796

Again, still thinking.

797

You do you, folks.

798

, if you want to trade with

computer money, cool, whatever.

799

I don't care.

800

I'll get gold or silver or something

or heck even seeds for plants and I

801

don't know These all seemed more valuable

to me But you know, it's just sort of

802

I still felt like man if only I had

gotten like I had the kind of short term

803

mentality at that point about Bitcoin.

804

I didn't really see it as a competitor

to fiat currency that was going to last

805

yet, but I still felt like if only I

had figured out How to get some 10

806

Bitcoin I'd be able to afford land and a

house by now because I would could sell

807

it and get land in a house and that's

what I really want still to this day.

808

So I'm like, if only I had done that

the idea of Hey, this is actually

809

really a revelation that could change

the world and make it difficult for

810

states to exist my arch nemesis, right?

811

Um, because.

812

If they can't control your money,

it's harder to control you.

813

And you can look into what happened

to the Canadian truckers during COVID,

814

their protest to see what I mean by that.

815

I mean, just hearing about that

even kind of made me go, Oh, hey.

816

Yeah, okay.

817

So people are using this

to circumvent the state.

818

That's great.

819

And then also I heard about there

were some women who were fleeing

820

persecution in some country in

the Middle East, and I can't tell

821

you which one, but they were being

persecuted and they decided to leave.

822

And if they had gone through, of course,

their state's official sanctioned

823

methods of getting their money out of

the country, they would have lost it all.

824

So instead what they did

is they memorized their...

825

keys and they fled and then they

went and put in their keys in

826

another country that's safer and they

were able to get all their money.

827

I'm like, Hmm, cool.

828

This allowed women to flee

persecution from the state.

829

And I'm just like, this is really great.

830

I think this is fantastic.

831

I can't remember if I heard stories

like that before or after meeting

832

my husband, but, , my husband is

the one who talks to me more about

833

Bitcoin as we were getting to know

each other and answered my questions

834

about how can this really be valuable?

835

How can this really not be inflated?

836

Things that I didn't actually

understand, like, okay, sure.

837

So there's 21 million of them, but

, they can just change the code, right.

838

And make more it's , no,

actually that's not.

839

Going to happen and why I didn't

know really that until talking

840

to him and I'm not saying , Oh,

it has to be your significant

841

other who gets you into Bitcoin.

842

It happened to be that for me, but I

would say, , If you're sitting on the

843

fence and you want to know more, just

find somebody who knowledgeable to

844

talk to, , find a Bitcoin meetup, there

will be someone there who is overjoyed,

845

thrilled to talk to you about Bitcoin

and explain all the little details.

846

Don't be intimidated.

847

Don't be scared of asking dumb questions.

848

Ask whatever questions and

they'll explain it to you.

849

, they're just like anything else in life.

850

If you want to learn it, then you

can find an expert and learn it.

851

, and yeah, do I wish that

I had done that sooner?

852

Yeah, that would have been cool, but

it just wasn't on my radar screen.

853

, but I think it's important, and I

think that as time goes on, it's going

854

to be more important for everybody.

855

It's going to come to mind more.

856

As we see what inflation is doing both

here and around the world, and as we

857

see what deep banking is doing very

close to home and possibly even here at

858

home, coming soon to a bank near you.

859

, this is an important concept.

860

And I recommend everyone look into

it through whatever means they can.

861

Tali: I just want to add, , a caveat

about looking up Bitcoin meetups.

862

There are a lot of Bitcoin meetups

that are labeled as Bitcoin meetups,

863

but they're actually not Bitcoin.

864

They're Cryptocurrency

trading investment clubs.

865

So just, be careful

looking at Bitcoin meetups.

866

One way to make sure it's

Bitcoin only is to, attend

867

and listen to the conversations.

868

If they bring out any other coin

and say you should invest in this,

869

you should run the other way.

870

, you can also go to bitcoinonly.

871

com or bitcoinevents.

872

com.

873

Those are Bitcoin only, so.

874

But yeah, meetup is kind of the wild,

wild West, I feel like when you when

875

it talks about cryptocurrency and web

three and all that stuff, they all

876

seem like they fall in the same bucket.

877

But you and I know that

Bitcoin stands alone.

878

So

879

Eryn: Yes.

880

Yes.

881

That was something really

interesting to discover.

882

Thank you so much for saying that.

883

, I guess I've been spoiled because

the only Bitcoin meetups I've been

884

to have been basically run by Maxis.

885

I am approaching Bitcoin no longer from

an investment standpoint, like, Oh, I

886

should have gotten them when they were

cheap and sold them when they were high.

887

So I could get land.

888

I'm not there anymore.

889

I am like.

890

true believer in like, this is the

hardest money that will ever exist.

891

And I think it's really going to do

some amazing things that I really like.

892

I'm very much a promoter of it in it

alone, because yeah, that was another

893

thing that I was going through too, is

Back before learning more about Bitcoin,

894

I was like, well, there's all these

other cryptocurrencies out there too.

895

, how am I going to sort

through which one is the best?

896

Do they make sense?

897

And , there's an information

overload out there.

898

, just none of them have the

same qualities Bitcoin does.

899

They don't have, , like an important

things that the founder is anonymous.

900

So that person cannot be manipulated.

901

, another is that it has this

network effect already.

902

So lots of people are using

it already is what I mean.

903

, they're still working on it.

904

They're building things to make it.

905

useful.

906

, you don't really see this so much.

907

, it's actually not inflatable.

908

There's a cap on how much there is.

909

You're not just making

them out of nothing.

910

There's a lot of things about

Bitcoin that you cannot say

911

about any other cryptocurrency.

912

, or maybe you can say one or

two things, but not all of the

913

things it's, it's very special.

914

It does stand alone.

915

So I would Definitely be wary of

anyone who's telling you, Oh, I

916

think that you should get a bunch of

Bitcoin sell it when it reaches like

917

blah, blah, blah amount of money.

918

. This is not what Bitcoin is for.

919

Or that tells you like, Oh, I also hold

blah blah blah coin and blah blah blah

920

coin because, they're going places.

921

It's like, are you sure that you

understand what Bitcoin does?

922

Are you sure that you

understand what Bitcoin is for?

923

, if people are saying

that, maybe they don't.

924

And it's not that...

925

There can't be anyone at

the meetup who is like that,

926

sometimes people will say things

like that, but that doesn't mean

927

like the whole group is like that.

928

And so the conversation is is richer and

there are people there to talk to about

929

Bitcoin exclusively and using it as a

parallel currency and a better currency.

930

, so those people are there.

931

And if that's at least true, then it

could be a good place to go and get

932

more information to those people.

933

Don't talk to the people who are

just investing in it temporarily Like

934

it's any other kind of stock or or

something because that's not the point

935

Tali: So how has Understanding

Bitcoin changed the way you

936

conduct your life, practically.

937

Eryn: Oh, that's a really good question.

938

I guess it's just kind of deep into

my understanding of a fiat currency

939

and its failings and of these

other alt coins and their failings.

940

I guess most of it has been theoretical,

but to me theory is a big part of my life.

941

So, it's given me other things to think

about, other ways to see the world.

942

And it's given me some hope for the

future because it is good that there

943

is something that can't be controlled

through force and violence, that

944

people can turn to and use as money.

945

It is.

946

Really a nice thing to think about, like,

oh, hey, this is not going anywhere.

947

, and they just learn more and more things,

like, people will often say, like, oh,

948

well, what if the electrical grid goes

down, or what if the internet goes down,

949

then you won't have your Bitcoin anymore.

950

And it's just...

951

Like on the one, on the one hand, it's

like if either of those things happen,

952

you have a lot of problems, , do

you really think your fiat money is

953

going to be valuable at that point?

954

, or even gold, when people

are literally starving, you

955

might have some serious issues.

956

. Not that starving is the first emergency

that comes, but enough emergencies

957

come if either of those things go down.

958

You have very serious problems first.

959

But even then, I have just recently

learned things like there are ways that

960

people have finagled to exchange Bitcoin

with each other through ham radio.

961

And through something that I

don't fully understand, but I'm

962

like, I like to see this article.

963

, I think it's some kind of

local neighborhood network that

964

you don't need the internet.

965

You don't need central electrical grid.

966

You can still trade your Bitcoin.

967

You can still use your Bitcoin.

968

And of course, like if

it's a temporary emergency.

969

You can hold on to your keys

and then use them later.

970

This is always true.

971

So that is really great So yeah, It

has given me some hope for, , the

972

vagaries of life, that there's

something that can maybe withstand that.

973

Other ways that it's affected my daily

life, , aside from, , going to meetings

974

about Bitcoin and earning Bitcoin.

975

I mean, those are just some, , practical

parts of my life that it's affected

976

is, , now I do those things.

977

Uh, so,

978

Tali: yeah, before, before we wrap up,

let's quickly talk about your pottery.

979

Eryn: Oh, yeah.

980

Okay.

981

Not only have I translated and

earned Bitcoin, but I've also

982

done pottery and earned Bitcoin.

983

, I make pottery, and most of them,

most of the pieces, I will accept

984

either fiat currency or Bitcoin.

985

And if you do...

986

Pay me in Bitcoin, then

you'll get Bitcoin discount.

987

, but then there are the Bitcoin themed

pieces that I will only sell for Bitcoin

988

and actually they've been my best seller.

989

. Post things on Noster.

990

And I, , also go and

sell things in person.

991

So far, I've only really sold things

in person, but I have hope for the

992

future on the other things, this

is all still pretty new for me.

993

But yeah, I've sold every single

Bitcoin themed thing that I have

994

made so far, so I'm making more

995

, and that's pretty cool.

996

That's a good feeling.

997

Tali: And, , can people find you on

Nosterf if they're interested in , the

998

Bitcoin themed pottery that you make?

999

Eryn: Yes, they definitely

can, I'll be posting about

01:00:40,479 --> 01:00:43,049

those things as they come up.

01:00:43,464 --> 01:00:48,324

, completed, and it's a little bit

complicated to look someone up on

01:00:48,334 --> 01:00:53,744

Noster, , the best bet is to look for

what's called their NPUB, which is a long

01:00:53,774 --> 01:00:55,564

and crazy string of letters and numbers.

01:00:55,564 --> 01:00:59,284

So I'll just give that to you, Tali,

and maybe we can put that in the

01:00:59,284 --> 01:01:03,474

show notes if they want to follow

me on Noster, , that would be cool.

01:01:03,759 --> 01:01:07,659

And then they will get a heads up whenever

I complete a piece of pottery, including

01:01:07,699 --> 01:01:09,829

a Bitcoin game board if they want it.

01:01:10,924 --> 01:01:11,444

Tali: Awesome.

01:01:11,654 --> 01:01:14,804

Thank you so much for spending

time to chat with me.

01:01:14,934 --> 01:01:15,824

That was really fun.

01:01:16,184 --> 01:01:17,044

I learned a lot.

01:01:17,614 --> 01:01:18,264

Eryn: Oh, cool.

01:01:18,684 --> 01:01:19,174

Thanks.

01:01:20,124 --> 01:01:21,154

I had a lot of fun too.

01:01:23,044 --> 01:01:26,344

Tali: Thanks for joining us today . If

the discussion with our guests

01:01:26,394 --> 01:01:29,854

resonated with you and you would

like to dive deeper into the world of

01:01:29,884 --> 01:01:34,164

Bitcoin, don't miss out on joining the

Orange Hatter Women's Reading Club.

01:01:34,584 --> 01:01:36,304

The meetup link is in the show notes.

01:01:36,734 --> 01:01:40,754

Also, if there are women in your life

whom you think would both enjoy and

01:01:40,774 --> 01:01:44,754

benefit from learning more about Bitcoin,

please share Orange Hatter with them.

01:01:45,414 --> 01:01:46,964

Until next time, bye!