Dr. Mark Allen, a physician who has successfully transitioned into the realm of artificial intelligence entrepreneurship, elucidates the profound potential of AI as a transformative force across diverse domains, particularly in healthcare and real estate. His journey commenced with pioneering AI systems that enhanced clinical decision-making for doctors, ultimately demonstrating that AI can serve as a scalable workforce rather than merely a tool. Currently at the helm of HeroForge.ai, Dr. Allen imparts his expertise to high-income professionals, guiding them in leveraging AI to optimize their business operations and enhance their quality of life. Throughout our discussion, he underscores the necessity of adaptability in this rapidly evolving technological landscape, offering pragmatic strategies for integrating AI into everyday routines. This episode encapsulates the imperative of embracing AI to unlock unprecedented opportunities for personal and professional advancement.

Takeaways:

1. Dr. Mark Allen illustrates the transformative potential of AI, emphasizing that it serves not merely as a tool but as a scalable workforce, thereby revolutionizing industries such as healthcare and real estate.
2. Through his venture, HeroForge.ai, Dr. Allen endeavors to educate high-income professionals on harnessing AI's capabilities to enhance their business operations and elevate their personal lives.
3. The discussion underscores the necessity for individuals and businesses to adapt swiftly to the rapid advancements in AI technology to unlock unprecedented opportunities for growth and efficiency.
4. Dr. Allen elaborates on his journey from medicine to AI entrepreneurship, highlighting his commitment to making a positive impact on healthcare through innovative software solutions.
5. Listeners are encouraged to adopt a proactive approach to integrating AI into their daily routines, as this can significantly enhance productivity and decision-making processes across various domains.
6. The conversation culminates with practical advice on leveraging AI technologies effectively, advocating for continuous learning and adaptation in an ever-evolving technological landscape.

Links referenced in this episode:

1. heroforge AI
2. clinical trials.gov
3. AI Daily Brief

With AI, we all have enormous power.

We think of an idea and we can turn that idea into a reality, into a product, into a business.

Okay.

If you want to do a software business, a coaching business, there's never been a faster, easier way to do that.

Welcome to Truly Passive Income.

I'm Neal Henderson.

And I'm Clint Harris.

And Today's guest is Dr. Mark Allen.

He's a physician turned AI entrepreneur who build systems that work.

He co founded Corticon.

It's an automating billion.

It's the automating billions of decisions daily before its acquisition.

Then he launched 11 to extend healthy lifespans through regenerative medicine.

Today is the CEO of heroforge AI.

He teaches high income professionals to orchestrate AI agents that compress years of work into days while building his own real estate portfolio alongside his tech ventures.

And he's proving AI isn't just a tool, it is a scalable workforce available right now.

Dr. Allen, you got a lot going on.

I'm really excited to jump into all of it.

So thank you sir for being here today.

How are you?

I'm doing awesome.

It's really the most exciting time to be alive.

I could not agree more.

I agree.

Neil and I talk about that all the time.

That right now the world is changing so rapidly.

It is.

There's more opportunity than there's ever been, but there's also more noise than there's ever been.

So I love the ability to cut through that with a subject matter expert who can really give us the lay of the land.

So before we get into all that, you, you, this is kind of a second act for you, like you're a physician that has turned into this AI entrepreneur.

Please tell us about your background, how you got started started and your journey that has led you in this direction.

So during my medical training, I got involved in a research project Back then we called them expert systems.

And it was what was unique about what we were trying to do was, you know, expert systems at that time were systems that the doctors had to put in.

All the data wasn't integrated with an electronic medical record.

We hardly had electronic medical records back then.

And so doctors would put in the patient findings and then it would come back with a list of the differential diagnosis.

Here are the potential diagnoses this patient might have.

And it was basically not actionable, not that valuable.

So what we were trying to do was to turn it into something that was actionable.

So capture the data starting with when a patient first enters the hospital in an emergency room.

We also did urgent care settings and we'd start capturing the data and we would use the AI to suggest the tests and treatments to offer the patient.

And we would provide evidence based rationale to the doctors.

So that's kind of where it started.

And we proved.

I was at UCLA for both my medical school and residency.

We proved in multiple clinical trials that when doctors used our system, they were twice as fast.

They ordered more of the right tests and treatments, but they ordered far fewer of the wrong tests and treatments.

So when we don't know, you know, it doesn't cost a doctor anything to order an extra test, but it could cost them their license if they fail to diagnose something that they should have.

Right.

So the we, we really helped, you know, in, in a whole bunch of different encounters.

And I'm sold.

This took many years, by the way, to build these systems, get them operational, run the clinical trials.

I'm sold.

This is the future of medicine, right?

Every doctor should be able to benefit from this kind of AI technology to guide them in the process of care.

I was way ahead of my time.

So I stayed at UCLA for my residency where I was a halftime resident and, and first and last time.

I'm sure they'll do that.

So I could work on this software the rest of the time.

And a couple years into my residency, I sat down, I would go into my shifts and I'd be like, God, I wish I could have my software here.

I don't really know what to do here.

We have to imagine that we do, but our knowledge is always behind the state of the art.

We can't keep up with all the latest, greatest studies.

It's impossible.

So I sat down with Larry Baroff, who was the head of the department and my research mentor.

And I said, you know, Larry, I think that I could bring more impact to the world if I brought this software to market than practicing a thousand lifetimes.

And he said, I agree.

Pulls out his checkbook and says, how much do you need to start the company?

And so I'm still a resident this time.

I'm like, whoa, whoa, hang on, let me think about this.

I don't even have a business plan.

I put together together a, a business plan.

I talked to a couple other people.

This is the height of the Internet boom.

People were throwing money at me for this idea and the clinical trial results that we had.

And we came up with some really cool inventions.

I'm not going to get into that of how we made this stuff work back then in much older generation of technology.

But what I did is I hired, I took a bunch of money from family and friends, a little more than a million, you know, enough to give us a six month Runway on my plan.

I would start selling by then.

That was the initial plan.

I went and met with hospitals after hospital after hospital explaining what we did and nobody would buy what's going on.

Finally someone was kind enough to explain to me.

They're like, we really like the physician productivity that your system will provide.

We really like the improvement in quality.

But when you explain that your system is going to reduce the costs, the number of tests and treatments, well, we get reimbursed on that.

If we used your system and scaled it, we would literally go out of business if we lost that revenue.

And it was like shocked.

Okay, so this, I'm like six months into it, had taken the money from friends and family, had hired a bunch of great people, like we're not going to let this thing just die.

And we did what technology calls a pivot, right?

We said where else can we apply this technology?

And we started selling it initially to insurance companies to initially health insurance, to help them review claims.

Then we got into all other kinds of insurance, property and casualty life insurance.

We started doing underwriting, we switched over to pip.

You know, just kind of all these were become transitions opportunistically started selling to banks for underwriting loans, determining what rates, whether somebody qualifies for this.

Then got into government for eligibility for different benefits and, and now this is a 12 year overnight success.

All of a sudden I'd say we started out on the wrong side of financial architecture in the healthcare system.

All of a sudden we were on the right side of financial architecture because Obamacare went into effect and required every state to rebuild their healthcare eligibility systems.

We were in the right place at the right time.

The federal government paid for 90% of the cost of those rebuilds and the company took off and we sold it right at that time.

So the so kind of bottom line is like a company like Cigna uses, their claims are automated on this, this product called Corticon, it's really successful.

It automates billions of decisions a day.

Now the difference between that and today's AI is that that is completely deterministic rules based with an Audit trail.

We know exactly what's happening.

The downside of that is that you have to.

Somebody has to put in the rules.

Now, we built a bunch of IP that made it easy to put in the rules.

Okay?

But somebody has to do that.

So now, after I sold that company, I then I was a CTO at this public company that I sold it to for a little while, and then I left with kind of enough.

Enough money to not really worry about what I'm doing next.

It was more about, in my mind, impact.

Okay.

So I went to my question of I became a doctor because I wanted to help people.

Okay.

I realized that you had a scale problem.

That's why I went into creating software, so I could help people at scale.

And so I went back to this and, you know, what happened with the corticon journey is I wasn't helping people's health.

I was helping businesses profitability.

We had a few customers doing various clinical things with it.

But I'm like, I want to get back into healthcare, and how can I make the biggest positive impact in healthcare?

And what's a problem that all of us have?

Aging.

Yeah.

Aging causes an immense amount of suffering.

And if we really focus on aging, we can solve it like many other problems.

And so I just focused in on that space.

There's a lot of incredible science that's happening, and I do think that ultimately we will solve it.

I mean, 100 years ago, look, it was actually natural that half of our children died of infectious disease primarily before adulthood.

And, you know, now we think that that's unconscionable.

Nobody, hardly anybody, dies in.

In young, you know, maybe when we're old.

But the same thing is going to happen with aging.

What I can't tell you is it can happen in our lifetimes, in our children's lifetime, our grandchildren's lifetime.

That's kind of where I think it's going to happen, where it will be absurd that people died of aging.

Can't believe that people used to die of aging.

So I spent about a year just studying the space, and I partnered with three Harvard professors to commercialize some research that they had created where they had identified a young blood factor that was hardly known, called GDF11, that promotes rejuvenation and repair in aged animals.

And.

And with $40 million over seven years, we took that from a breakthrough academic discovery to starting clinical trials, and the interest rates went up and we couldn't get the trials funded.

The science actually worked in our hands.

And I mean, incredibly sad.

A huge amount of work, a huge amount of money.

We had to sell that for pennies on the dollar US and hundreds of other assets out there in the field that got orphaned when the cost of capital went up.

So, you know, really sad.

I really hope that it does prove something.

You know, I'm in contact with the current owners of that, but that.

That was an opportunity for me to transition.

Because right at that time, Generative AI was taking off, and I saw from my experience in AI, so I kind of go back to my thing.

Okay, now.

Okay, now I sold this company at a loss, but I will go back to my same thing.

How do I make the biggest positive impact?

So I want to help people deeply.

I want to help as many people as possible.

But what I learned from the experience in drug development is I don't want to wait 10 to 15 years to help people with massive risk and massive capital requirements.

I want to help people now, today.

And with this new generation of AI, you can help people, you can help yourself in ways that were impossible for all of humanity, all of history.

Like the power.

So if you define power as taking an idea and turning it into reality, right?

So the ultimate power is the concept of a God.

A God can think something.

It is, right?

And then below that, it's the president of the most powerful country in the world.

He has enormous power to say, I want this.

Make it happen.

Okay?

With AI, we all have enormous power, okay?

We think of an idea, and we can turn that idea into a reality, into a product, into a business.

Okay?

If you want to do a software business, a coaching business, there's never been a faster, easier way to do that.

Okay.

The kinds of things that we're doing now, I mean, it's like I. I had an idea of a business that I talked to a hospital.

So one of the things that we do.

Oh, actually, I should get.

Jumping ahead a little bit, so a little bit more of my story to tell you how I got to where I am now.

Okay, so this is now, Gus, almost three years ago.

So I put the assets into sale.

I jump into this AI space right as it's taking off.

First thing that I did is I just wanted to learn what's possible, what can you do with this?

And as I was learning it myself, I get a call from my cousin whose best friend is dying.

I know her, wonderful woman, three young kids, and she's in the hospital right now.

She's.

This is.

Back then, she was in the hospital, had a seizure.

They identified that she had metastatic melanoma in her brain.

They took out one tumor, but there's multiple inoperable tumors in her brain.

Mark, can you help?

So, you know, I get these calls being a doctor, and mostly I would just refer, right.

But this time I said, let me see what AI can do.

And I went through understanding, first of all, what is the standard of care?

What is her prognosis under the standard of care, to which AI told me she's got about a 15%, 1 5%, 2 year survival rate.

Under the standard of care being chemotherapy, radiation and like.

Okay, I'm not gonna.

We're gonna keep going.

What can you do?

What experimental therapies exist in science?

Tell me the level of rationale, tell me why they might work.

I don't care if they're approved for herd disease.

In fact, they probably aren't.

But I wanna know if scientific rationale suggests that they could be used for the cancer.

Okay, and where are they?

Are they in clinical trials?

They approve for something else.

Really?

Go through.

I spent a coup through it.

I'm like, wow, here's a drug in a clinical trial.

She does not qualify for the clinical trial.

Okay, but here's a way I knew from my experience with experimental drugs, here's a way to gain access to it.

And I found the clinical trial site closest to her.

I told her, call up this number.

The principal investigator, you can pull it off of clinical trials.gov.

okay?

That's what I did.

Call this number tomorrow, that doctor is going to have a whole bunch of information that AI doesn't.

He's seeing patients currently in the clinical trial.

If he thinks this drug would be good for you, you need to be on it.

This is what I think is the best.

If this doesn't work, we'll continue within a week, she got an appointment within a week.

After that, she was on the drug.

Within two months, there was no evidence of cancer in a brain.

No way.

That's amazing.

So I'm like, whoa.

Okay, so this is the power of AI.

And now I.

So I'm like, I need to teach this to everybody.

How do I teach this?

What do I focus on?

Like, do I just focus on this?

This is a huge problem right here.

You know, using it for people's health, right?

That could be big.

But it's so much bigger than that.

And so I created some courses with some partners to just train basic AI.

And I'm like, this is changing so fast.

I don't want to just train the basic stuff.

So I then turned it into a mastermind program.

And I said, who do I focus on?

How can I, I magnify impact?

Well, if I teach business leaders how to use AI, then they can magnify the impact.

So that's what I started focusing on my target audience.

My kind of core product now is a mastermind product where I teach business leaders and high income professionals, a lot of doctors are in it, how to use AI.

And every week we teach the breakthroughs, okay?

And there can be a breakthrough that can come, that can save you hours a week.

And it's happening every week now, right now, these kinds of breakthroughs.

So that then, so that's kind of one of the things I do.

And then I apply it.

So I apply it in my business and I help people apply it in their business.

And then I build new businesses with AI.

And what we build is truly AI, native businesses.

So this is the thing, there's a lot of inertia, okay, that things are going to take a while to change.

But I can tell you definitively this has actually been true for now, a couple of years, almost a year and a half.

AI is smarter than all of us, across all the fields, okay?

It's smarter than PhD level professionals in their field, okay?

And its intelligence is improving exponentially and the speed at which it responds is improving exponentially.

And the length of task it can perform autonomously is improving exponentially.

All these things are improving exponentially, okay?

So what you gotta understand is a tsunami wave is coming, right?

Do you want to be crushed by this or do you want to ride it?

Yep, you ride it.

There's never been a time in history that you could make more money, you could create more abundance, right, than right now because of the capabilities of AI.

So that's really what I'm teaching.

And so it's just really fun.

So I put myself in a position where I am staying on top of what's the latest and greatest and actually using what's the latest and greatest and teaching on what's the latest and greatest.

So it's super, super fun to see.

I mean, the kinds of things that we're doing.

Like people talk about this, are we at AGI or not?

Okay, the model itself, which is the core brain, the LLM, is probably never going to get to AGI in the current generation.

The transformer models, that architecture that it's using, it's incredibly powerful, okay?

But that's not the only thing we've got.

We can wrap those models in agents and then we can wrap, we can use multiple agents together across multiple Models.

And if we use that combination today, we're way past AGI today, right?

We can do insanely cool things.

And I can't like people that talk to me, they're like, mark, you're just over.

I'm not overhyping.

Like, dude, I can show you some things I built.

So one of the, this is one of the things that I just built this week.

So I talked to one of my clients, owns a hospital.

He says, we got a problem in an opportunity.

Okay.

And it's in billing and reimbursement.

So the people that do our coding are not medical doctors.

Right?

They're coders and they do a six month program to learn how to code high school degrees.

If we code correctly, it could mean the difference between a one time reimbursement and a three time reimbursement.

That's the opportunity, help us to fix that opportunity.

So I built out a system using AI I simulated on.

I haven't applied it to their data yet, but I simulated on a bunch of simulated data to show that their hospital could make about $10 million more on this.

So the next step is to actually put their real data in it and show the AI.

The AI works.

I validated that the AI works.

And this is all like, I mean, all using all of the real rules, all the real coding.

I mean, and I built this in a week.

Like it's, it.

This is the sort of thing that you can do that it, you know, is, is just absolutely crazy.

So, so that's kind of a background.

But I, so what I do is I'm doing this across many fields.

So I want to come back to this whole area of real estate.

So I'm a real estate investor and I want to talk to you about a couple of things that I'm doing.

So I have a lot of clients that are real estate investors.

So one of the clients teaches doctors how to invest in real estate.

So it's semi retired MD is the name of the company.

And I actually learned, it was pretty interesting.

I learned from them, oh my God.

You can completely.

You don't have to pay any taxes.

If you buy real estate and you do bonus depreciation, cost segregation, it's like, okay, I'm going to do this.

And I ended up buying this, this 20 bedroom hotel, boutique hotel in central Vermont, Killington, Vermont on that.

And literally I got the amount of down payment I got back in the next tax year.

It really does work.

Right?

So this is before I started getting an AI.

I bought this.

So now they Came to me, they're friends of mine and they knew that I was working AI and they said, okay, first thing is when we run this course, people ask us the same questions over and over again.

Can we build an AI that answers those questions?

Oh, that's easy.

Let's do that.

Okay.

So we did that in both of their different courses.

Then we said one of the things that we teach is market selection.

And so can we build an AI that helps us to select the right market to invest in?

I was like, well, how, how do you do that?

What?

It's like, well, we look at all this population data, we look population growth, we look at, at job growth, we look at crime rates, we look at the, the rental rates versus the property values, all these things.

So, so we built, we had AI help us and I built it with them to build this, this market selector that they now use in their course.

So that was all stuff that we built as an example.

So now the AI keeps getting more and more and more powerful.

So now you literally can take, and I've now shown them this in a more recent update.

You can take all of the documents and say you're looking at investment.

This is perfect for passive.

Take all those documents, upload them to AI and say, analyze this from the perspective of a top this kind of investor and critically analyze this and tell me if this is a good investment or not and why.

Boom.

And it can take all this.

The chat bots can do this, by the way.

Okay, so I'm telling you the.

If you want to take it to the next level, here's a little tip, okay?

Don't just prompt it that way because you're never going to be as good of a prompter as the AI.

You're not going to be as good as anything at the AI.

Okay, Maybe me giving the podcast right now, next year my AI avatar will give this podcast better than the halfway joke, right?

It's real.

Let me, can I ask a follow up question before you move on about that?

Especially like we'll have a conversation after this is over about how I get access to your mastermind.

I'd love to hear more about that towards the end of this conversation because we need to make some, a lot of agents for a lot of different jobs and, and the passion that you've got is the same passion that I've got for this.

This.

It's coming, right?

And your analogies are right.

The tsunami is here and like we can't change the tides, but we can ride the waves, right?

So like how do, how do we surf this one?

And it's a big one, so you better see it coming from a long ways out and start paddling.

The latest data that I've heard is that of any task that you have in your business, about 92% of tasks now can either be done by AI or can be accentuated in AI to have a statistically significant, you know, greater than a standard deviation improvement on that process.

Yeah.

So basically like if you're looking at your, your problems that you have or as you say, your opportunities, which is the way I love to look at it within your business, 9 out of 10 times the answer is all or a portion of AI or can be accentuated and helped by AI.

And I would expect that to get better.

That, that's the most recent data that I've seen.

Is that, are you in line with that?

Is that what you feel like?

9 out of 10 things right now, if you're not asking yourself that question, like every time, you should be asking yourself, can I do this better than I can?

Or how do we improve this process utilizing AI?

9 out of 10 times the answer is yes, that can help you improve it without question.

You feel you believe that?

Yeah, yeah, Yep.

And the, so I mean I, when, when I give a talk, I'll show a whole bunch of statistics that help people to really understand that.

Benchmarks that are, you know, kind of cross industry analysis as well as within industry analysis, if people are interested in specific industries.

But yeah, there's, there's.

So it's, and it really, so if you think about it, it's the combination of AI and automation.

So by that I mean, AI is kind of, it's the decision maker.

So it's got a brain really similar to our brain, okay.

A neural network that it has been trained on all the world's knowledge.

Okay.

That piece of it, you feed it data, it makes a decision and gives you back that output.

But you need to combine that with automation, connection to different systems, various other ways of transforming data, which if it's deterministic, you're always doing the same thing.

It's way better to do that outside of AI.

It's, it's way faster to do it.

So it's the combination of the AI and the software automation that really allows us to do these solutions.

But we've had the software automation side for a while.

What's new is these models, these AI brains that when you combine those two together, that's what allows us to do.

So much more, you know, really what we're.

My.

When I try to describe what AI is to people right now that really are not involved with it, aren't using it, is that it's a massive pattern recognition system.

Pattern recognition and replicator.

And that's essentially what our brains are.

I mean, we recognize patterns, but we're not nearly as capable.

I mean, on some level we're actually much more capable on, you know, because we.

And I can sit here and look at, you know, I can glance right here and say, well, that's like that black rectangle.

There's a camera, you know, whereas an AI, it might take, you know, a long time to figure that out, but when you feed it massive amounts of, of data, then it, that it can recognize its orders of magnitude better at recognizing patterns than any any human being alive.

Absolutely.

And I think that's really where it's, that's, to me, that's the inflection point of what we're talking about.

Yeah.

And that.

But I want to point out that case that you just mentioned, recognizing the camera.

Okay, so they didn't have vision, computer vision capabilities the earlier models, but now the models do.

All the leading vendors now have vision capabilities and some of them have live vision capabilities.

So Gemini and Chat GPT now actually have a live mode.

They can see your video, you can share your screen with them.

I did that at my son's treehouse the other day.

I've got a two, I got two boys and my six year old and I have built a fort back in the woods called Fort Buddy.

We were back at Fort Buddy the other day and I took out my video camera and I was like, hey, Jim and I, what kind of tree is this?

What's that?

You know, is, hey, is this the leaves are off the trees down here in the wintertime.

Like, hey, is this poison ivy, whatever.

And just live conversation, walking around, looking at stuff.

I mean, it's only, it's happening right now.

You can have that in your glasses.

It's seeing what you're seeing.

It's like, hey, what's that brand?

Who's doing their marketing?

How do I create a product that's better, that's priced better, that's, that's marketed more efficiently?

Like, that's right.

Extrapolation is, is crazy.

Yeah.

So the capability is there.

That's the bottom line.

The capability is there.

We are more limited, number one, by knowing how to use it.

Okay.

Knowing what is available.

Knowing how to use what's available.

Okay.

And part of that is the creativity.

Like, how do you even ask the right questions.

So you know, a lot of us still use, I find, you know, a lot of us use it kind of like we use search.

And yeah, it is becoming a better way to do search, but it is so much more.

Ask it to explain anything to you, okay?

But you have to ask it to explain it to you at the level you are, okay?

So if I want it to explain something, I am a sophisticated real estate investor that does this, this and this.

It's going to give me a very, very different answer.

I'm an absolute novice.

So explain to me at that level.

I used to use what I called my sort of master prompt when I first, you know, was first like really starting to use AI where I, I would basically get it to interview me about what I was trying to accomplish to then create a prompt.

I now I rarely do that anymore.

What I will do often is like, all right, what am I, who am I trying to emulate?

I.

All right, I want to.

So I will ask Gemini or Chat GPT, whatever model I'm using, do deep research on how top level real estate syndicators, you know, self storage syndicators are finding and sourcing deals, you know, what are all kind of write it all out, do deep research on that.

And now come back to me and it will go away for, you know, 10, 15 minutes and it will come back and it will put out, pull out this, you know, 10 page report on what it's doing and then I will take that report and I'll then plug that into whatever model I want to use and say, all right, generate a prompt for this to create the ultimate self storage syndication chatbot assistant and use all of that research to do that.

And then it will write that prompt using all of that data and it'll be this massive, you know, prompt.

And I find my results to be, you know, a thousand times better than what they were.

That is really sophisticated use.

Then you're doing a couple of things.

First of all, you know, using the capability of the deep research tools, you're truly grounding that research on, in reality.

So the AI will hallucinate.

These AIs have the AI models, okay, the brain, they have been trained to always give you an answer and to make you feel good, okay?

So you gotta just keep that in mind and that results in a lot of hallucinations.

So if you ground it in this research into reality and the other thing that has, has a knowledge base cutoff.

So it's, it's training takes a lot of time to do and then it's post training takes a lot of time to do.

So if you ask an AI chatbot what is your knowledge base cutoff, it'll say like one year ago or six months ago, what, whatever, it's, it's not recent.

And so how it gains recent stuff is it will hit the web, but it can't hit the entire web, right?

So especially if you have anything recent, you need to go and do that research and then you need to effectively give that research as you're doing to turn it into a prompt.

But now recognize that that is going to get out of date.

It's perfect for right now in the moment, but it's going to get out of the date.

But there's other ways and techniques that you can do where you can effectively have your own database that you're constantly updating.

We call it RAG retrieval, augmented generation, which is constantly getting the most up to date results.

And it can, it can not only, it's not only up to date what's public, it's also what's private and proprietary to you.

So knowledge that other people might not have.

Your own enterprise data as an example.

So there's techniques.

And so this is where I'm saying is that the combination of the use of the model and the use of these techniques like RAG and like self learning things like that is where you can make, you can build a system that is effectively at AGI levels today.

It feels almost counterintuitive because this is, you know, mentality is always like, oh well, a copy of a copy is never as clear.

But as long as the context window is, is large enough and you're operating inside the same conversation, it's not jumping around.

The reality is you can feed all this stuff into the magic AI black box and then what comes out, you can continue to feed it back in and get improvement.

And what is coming out on the, the back end is an improvement.

Like it's getting better and better.

And I think a lot of people are like, you run it through whatever AI optimization tool you're going to use and you're like, this is the final product.

And my mentality shift is like, no, no, no, no, this is the starting point.

You get it framed up to the point that you are now giving the context to get a better answer.

And it's amazing to me that you can just get an answer.

You say no, no, no, no, go deeper.

Okay, now deeper.

Okay now deeper.

Okay now take all of that information and I rewrite the question that I've told you I'm trying to answer to a greater global question.

That is a more robust question that I am probably trying to answer.

And then write the prompt for it.

You can just keep feeding it back in and it just gets deeper and more robust.

And it's, it's amazing.

And the capability is changing so rapidly, it's hard to wrap your head around.

Let, let me ask you this.

This is a layman question because we are.

You're in beyond veteran territory at this point, and I'm scratching the surface on this, but I'm spending a lot of time.

I don't.

I can't tell you the last time I listened to an audiobook or a podcast.

All I do is, is talk to the different AIs when I'm on the road.

But I'm looking at where I am right now.

Chat GPT is, is incredible.

I really like the most recent update.

Claude is okay for what it is used for.

I fell in love with Gemini 3.0.

I thought that was a massive improvement.

And I'm and Grok 4 is really powerful, but it has a personality.

Sometimes the way that it answers things is a little bit different than what you expect.

And so you know that chatty, agreeable, chatgpt is one thing.

The thing that helped me the most was when I told ChatGPT to stop being chatty and witty and be my ruthless mentor.

I have thick skin.

I can handle your strict criticism and constructive criticism.

As long as you're approaching me from a point of honesty and with the intent of helping me get better as a professional or helping me accomplish the goals for my family, I can take it.

Lay it on me.

And man, it started destroying my ego in a great way.

It really challenged my thinking.

Yeah, he didn't know it was actually me that got into his chat.

Here's, here's my question for you.

I'm looking at.

I know that Grok is growing at a very rapid clip because of its integration with Twitter or now called X.

Like that's an amazing ability for it to it immediately.

If somebody posted something on X immediately Grok is going to have an opinion on it and know about it.

And I love that integration.

It's almost.

It's real time and not with like main media news sources, but like it went from Wall street to Main street in that regard.

They didn't.

Instead they went, I think, to 4.2 or 4.3.

But Grok 5 is supposed to be a monumental jump forward in terms of agentic AI and being able to make phone calls for me, book appointments and schedule a quiet table at the Greek restaurant on the other side of town.

Because I've got somebody coming in to meet me and call and make the reservation and then put it on both of our calendars and send us driving instructions and a reminder 20 minutes ahead of time.

Like the agentic actionable things that it is able to do is a huge jump forward.

And so I'm looking like there's no way to forecast this, but can you tell me like, who are you impressed with right now?

This is for the entry level AI people, but like of the choices that are out there, who do you really like and which company do you think is likely to be standing in once this, this reminds me of the early dot com craze and at the end of it like Google and Yahoo are still there and a lot of people are not.

It's like, who's doing it right, right now and whose growth trajectory do you like and what are the big jumps that you see coming down the pipeline in the near future?

Yeah, yeah, so, so let me say it's, it's a horse race.

So you know, one, one gets a little ahead and then another gets ahead.

And um, we keep seeing this there in terms of the, what is state of the art.

So leading the benchmarks, leading the capabilities, they keep leapfrogging one another.

Okay.

Now there are some clear leaders in certain ways and certain use cases that have now become clear for a little while.

Okay.

So there's also, as you say, you know, what is that trajectory?

What is that slope?

And so let me just say a few things and I'll talk about what I use.

Okay.

And my team uses.

So first of all, if you're doing software development, if you're creating things, complex things, Claude is the best.

Claude, not even a question about it.

Okay.

And you have to use these tools like Claude code, and then we have agentic orchestration on top of that and a whole bunch of other capabilities that we bring into it.

But is it just.

It's had momentum, it's been their focus and they're out ahead and they're staying ahead in that.

Okay.

I don't see any of these really.

Everybody else is releasing something, but they're not leapfrogging.

Claude, in that anthropic and that now for, let's say the kind of frontier of intelligence and speed of the models, this is where Gemini is the best.

And so Gemini has for reasoning it's a little bit better and then for speed.

So the newest release, they have the 3.0 flash model that's basically at the level intelligence of 2.5 Pro model, but instant.

So that's kind of like now become my go to fastest model.

And by the way, that's also one of those things is like how the speed at which you're getting that super intelligent response just keeps improving and improving for so many reasons.

The software that they're optimizing on, but the hardware as well keeps getting better and better at that task.

What we call inferencing.

So that's kind of my preferred there.

The other thing about Gemini is that it has a 1 million token context window which is 5 times larger than Claude and then ChatGPT and then Grok is it's context window.

They say that it's big, but it doesn't work very well.

So the Gemini context window is literally verbatim.

It can pull stuff and pull the full passage out, whereas the others can find a needle in a haystack, can find a term within it.

So context windows are not equivalent in how they work across the models.

Interesting.

I had no idea about that.

Yeah, that's really good to know.

Well, it was kind of a funny thing.

Meta and Llama announced, oh, we have this.

I think it was a 4 million token context window.

And I tested as like no only needle in a haystack.

Like that's it.

Like you guys, why would you even announce that?

Do you guys not even understand what a context window is like?

You know, clearly they were, they, they made some big mistakes.

So yeah, that's, that's, that's a really important thing to understand in these kind of.

And the difference in behavior.

So I would say that, that now what I would not put out.

So I don't.

Right.

Right now.

And we do every time a new model comes out, every time a new tool comes out, we do showdowns and we compare them to one another.

There is not a single model or feature that OpenAI has currently that is state of the art.

Okay.

That is my opinion across all.

They have a lot of different products, a lot of different models.

There's nothing that is state of the art in my opinion.

You think that OpenAI has fallen behind currently?

Chat GPT right now, currently has no product that is state of the art.

Yep.

Interesting.

Well that sort of explains wasn't it.

Sam Altman a couple weeks ago was like, oh man, I think I need to start a rocket company.

And I was like, buddy, if that's what you're thinking, you're rocking.

I mean, they're working on a hardware device that hopefully will be incredibly cool with Johnny.

I've, I mean, so I would not.

Do I say that they're going to fail?

No.

They've got massive amounts of capital behind them.

They're doing a whole bunch of different things.

They've got all these partnerships, they've got, you know, market leadership.

So they, you know, they're, they're, they're going to be a successful business.

Would I invest in them at a trillion dollar valuation at their IPO when Google was a profitable company that's got better technologies like a 2.7 billion market cap?

Hell no.

I put all my money in Google.

Right.

So a little stock tip.

Google is insanely undervalued relative to the quality of their models, their technology and everything that they've got.

They've got the entire stack down to the fiber, right.

For the communications layer, they got the hardware, they make their own hardware.

I mean they have other people that make it, but they own the hardware.

So it's, it's, it's just.

And then they've got a very profitable cash cow business that instead of having investors dollars pouring into this to build their product, it's the cash from their company that's going in there still profitable on top of all that investment.

So there's just no way that these companies can really keep up with that.

Now Claude is a different thing.

Claude is like if the latest version of Claude Coast 100% written by Claude has a phenomenal.

To get to that place.

That's amazing.

Now and the last one, Grok, just to say you just can't bet against Elon.

He is pouring capital into this.

He's built the biggest data center in the world in terms of training.

So you know, doing some amazing things.

They're, they're breaking a lot of stuff, you know, as they're doing it.

But you know, they, they, they have Elon right on their side.

So, so I would, I wouldn't put them out of it.

I think that there's going to be some interesting.

The other thing that I wouldn't put out of it is the Chinese vendors.

So there are open source technologies that are available that are free, that I can run locally or in a virtual machine that are effectively free for me to run that are at the performance levels of six months ago, state of the art.

Wow.

Yeah, it's catching up Fast.

Yeah, you know, I'm, it's interesting watching Apple navigate this because Apple has, is a little hamstrung because they're so obsessed with customer privacy like that you, that, that we, you know, that your data stays private on, you know, on that little, you know, rectangle and that, that sort of hamstrings them on what they can do as far as, you know, because you know, Google, OpenAI Grok, they're like, they're scooping up everything you're telling it and sending it up into the model and using it to learn off of it.

And I wonder if Apple will ever, if it will ever catch up if the models become so powerful that it can live 100% on the device.

Yeah, yeah.

So there are models now that are super capable that can live on device.

So you know, I think that the question is if you know, Apple has been slow here, you know, for sure in their, their whole strategy of AI and their release of really good AI inside of their products, but they also have massive advantage in this closed ecosystem.

So you, you can, you, I think you got a great point there is when they start to leverage all of that data that's inside of their ecosystem really effectively with AI which is just a matter of time, then I think they're going to build better products faster and have incredible experience.

Right.

So I'm surprised that they're taking so long in really getting their act together.

But the, I think that they have some assets that will help them at the right point in time.

So I can't say like if I was head of strategy, would I open that up to allow everybody to train on my proprietary data?

Probably not.

Just like Elon's not letting everybody train on X.

Right.

That's a, it's an asset to them that they need to figure out how to leverage.

All right, so we're gonna, we need to start wrapping this up.

We could go on for another two hours.

Yeah, we, we probably honestly need to bring you back a couple times if you, if you don't mind.

Before you do, do you, you have a follow up question about this or are you going to get to some.

Of those other questions?

I, I, there's like one or two, there's like one or two of these questions at the end that I would like to ask.

Jump in there before I change the subject.

You go ahead with that.

So you know, a lot of our listeners are high income professionals.

If you could recommend that they adopt one a powered AI powered habit this month that would meaningful, meaningfully change their wealth trajectory or just, let's not leave it to just wealth.

Just meaningfully make their life better over the next decade.

What would you pick?

That's a good one.

So I would just say right now, if I was just to pick one.

Okay.

I would say use Gemini and do meta prompting.

So recognize you don't really know how to talk to it very well, so ask it how to prompt in this way.

Give me a prompt to do this.

Okay.

And you know, if.

If you're unclear in any way, ask me any questions to make this prompt better.

Do that.

Recognize that it can upload tons of different documents as part of your input.

So try that.

It can create different kinds of documents as part of your output.

You can talk to it, okay.

Via voice.

You can talk, you can show it via video.

So do all these things.

Start to play with it.

I would say that's kind of the most capable.

It can do all different things.

It can generate amazing images.

So just start playing with it and using it.

As you think about, I've got a question for something.

I want to do something.

Use it.

So start to build the habits to become AI first.

Yeah.

And let me just follow up that.

Make sure that people understand, you know, because a lot of times you tell someone, start playing with Gemini and they will almost always just start using it as Google.

Yeah.

And what you're saying, and I think this is very important.

Rather than using it as Google, say, use it to generate a prompt to help you answer the question that you're trying to.

It's like, listen, I want to understand how real estate syndications work.

Why go to the next level?

Why?

Why?

I want to actually invest in real estate.

So I want you to explain enough to do this.

I have an example of a deal.

I want you to explain the deal, but I want you to break everything down so that I clearly understand that.

Right.

Having that conversation.

You're unpeeling the onion.

Unpeeling the onion so that you really understand something.

And AI can help you to do that, right?

If you want, you can just help it.

Like, you know, you can take a prompt as a student and just put it into AI and send that.

You learn nothing, right?

That's not how you want to use it.

You want to use it.

Turn it into a coach, right?

With Gemini.

When I first started using Gemini, this is exactly what I did.

First of all, don't do the typing thing.

Hit the button down in the bottom right corner.

Use the VO that Gemini live.

You can actually speak to it.

It's just Like a real person.

Yeah.

And.

And go into the personalization section under your profile and tell it that I want you to be a coach that pushes me forward to learn everything I can about AI and help me apply it in these different areas of my life and to improve.

Like tell it who you want it to answer as.

I want you to be a PhD level world class consultant with all things AI and your focus is to help me improve my life in all ways, physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, connection with my spouse, like all these different ways and coach me on how to constantly be aware of ways that I can improve AI or integrate AI into my life to improve.

And then have those conversations and you're talking to it.

It will change the answers that it's giving you.

And just hey Gemini, of people that are using AI, what are the people that are getting the most out of it?

How are they integrating AI into their daily lives right now?

And what are a list of 10 of the questions that they are asking you?

And take all that turn it like just get into it.

Have it start telling you what you need to be asking it.

You got to think about it differently.

Like this is your opportunity to sit down with someone who is PhD level in everything, relationship strategies, communication, everything.

So I love all of that.

We are way behind.

So let me get to my question here.

You I am familiar with and have read about one of the things that you've spent.

I don't know how you have this much time, but you spent a lot of time on heroforge, your Hero Forge and wealthy ecosystems.

It's a heroforge AI.

My understanding from what I've read is that it combines AI education, app development, a tool suite, venture studios.

It has retreats to multiple different countries, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Montenegro and entrepreneurs are building AI agents and voice clones over a three to four day period and they're implementing them into their business.

This does not sound like a cheap mastermind and it does not sound like something that should be available to the mass markets right now.

But I this is a selfish question.

I want to know about neuroforge.

I want to know about your mastermind.

I want to know the cost.

I want to know what would it take for me to get involved in somebody like something like that and what does all of our listeners need to know?

Yeah, yeah.

So I should say that we offer different products for different price points and different goals of what you're trying to do.

So we're about to release a bunch of more free stuff, free training for the masses and Then we have on demand stuff, which a lot of stuff that we actually teach to the Mastermind members.

Not all of it, but a lot of it, you know, not, not proprietary specific to members.

We, we provide to what we call the AI Academy.

And so that one just to say it's a hundred dollars a month or $700 a year.

Okay.

On Demand library, you've got about a hundred hours of content.

So you can start from zero or start at whatever level and go as deep as you want.

The, then the, what the Mastermind is about is it's live, it's community.

You get coaching as part of it.

You get access to retreats.

So you are learning in a community of other people that are learning and building in their companies.

So that one, every, every week we release a new lesson and then we have office hours where we have a workshop and we, if anybody has any questions or anybody has any questions about applying AI in their business, we have that, that coaching piece of it as well on a weekly basis.

And then we have every quarter we have a retreat.

A beauty of the retreat is that you can go really deep.

So we, it's three nights and we pick beautiful locations around the world and we go deep.

So an example is we taught in the last retreat, we used absolute cutting edge AI orchestration on top of Claude.

On top of Claude code, this AI orchestration layer where we had everybody first of all put together a spec of what they wanted to build.

Okay.

We, we used something called Vibe coding.

This is a really hot area to like build the ui, a front end and get an idea of that.

But a vibe coding gives you something that's pretty and functional.

Right?

But it's not a real engineered app.

So we use this called Agentic Orchestration and Agentic Engineering to overnight have a swarm of agents build you out a fully capable system.

And everybody built something over the course of those three days that is really cool.

Not to the point of deploying it like, you know, some putting it on a hipaa compliant or SOC2 compliant architect that takes a little bit more work.

But an actual functional app everybody built that was super cool to see a prior retreat as an example, everybody built digital twins, built avatars, cloned their voice, cloned their image, cloned their video.

And we taught them how to use that.

Another retreat, everybody wrote their memoir, so captured their stories, used AI to write a memoir and then use that memoir within a conversational voice, AI in their clone voice to be able to answer any questions about them.

So it's.

These are the Sorts of things that we do on retreats, they're, they're just really fun.

We go deep, we offer kind of coaching programs or development programs where if you want to do something now, today, we can help you along that way.

We can either point you to the education, we can help you to do it with you, or we can do it for you.

We kind of do all those depending upon what our clients want to do.

But the mastermind is for if you want to master AI and you want to be amongst a community of people that are mastering it for yourself and your business, okay, that's really the focus of it.

There are other communities that I think are better for if you want to build an AI consulting business.

Right.

I think there are other communities that are built, we do have some people that are there that I think vouch for our approach because we're, we're pretty cutting edge and we go deep and we provide a lot of context.

But really what we're, what our focus is and I think where our unique value in the market is for high income professionals to be able to use this themselves in their business, in their life, creating new businesses.

Right, That's, I think we're the best in the world.

That.

Yeah, I, I, I'm going to let Neil ask last question.

Let me ask one more hypothetical and that'll be it for me.

Is it possible for you?

Like this is a theoretical, but let's use you as an example.

Could you create a clone of your image, your knowledge base, your voice that could be my co host on an AI mastery podcast.

Like are we to that level?

Like could we sit just like this where you're, I'm not trying to fire you, Neil, but like are we to the level where, you know, I know we're not sure if you're so close.

Okay, are we there yet?

Yeah, we're so close.

So, so the, the voice technology involves a lot of different layers and this is going to go into a much deeper conversations.

There's a lot of different failure points, including the telephony.

So you can avoid that if you're not using the telephony, but you've got a speech to text, a text to speech and LLM that are all part of it, that, that are different technologies that work together.

Google's working on trying to bring those together into a single model which works well with a limited number of use cases, not if you need to call tools and do something.

So it really depends.

But I would bet that we could build something that is phenomenal, like that in my.

Literally in my voice.

I'll bet we could build something that.

That in a lot of use cases, it's going to have a little bit of tweaks and errors in it, but it would be really, really good and really, really cool.

So, yeah, the ch.

I mean, following up on this, I love the memoir idea, and I'm sitting immediately in.

My mind goes to.

All right, how do you prevent hallucinations?

Because you don't want a memoir answering, you know, making something up.

And, you know, I can think.

All right, well, if, you know, you can instruct it.

Instruct the agent to basically say, hey, if you don't have any information from this memoir, just have it say, hey, hey.

I don't remember.

I don't remember that.

Yep.

Well, listen, I think you're going to have to tailor the last question here, Neil, because usually we ask a question about a book, but I think this is going to have to be about a resource because I think books are obsolete as of this.

Clint, I wanted to answer your question about the cost of that, just so that people know.

So we really make it.

I think almost all of our members, some of them start monthly, but I think, you know, other than brand new members, everybody's annual at this point in time.

So that it's.

It's an incredible community.

Business owners and a lot of doctors.

It's a lot of the doctors are entrepreneurial or invest or have their own practices.

So, yeah, it's a really cool community of people.

Thank you.

I love that.

I'll be talking to you more about that after we're done here.

Yeah.

So a question that we ask every guest is, is there a book that you recommend to friends and colleagues more than others?

But I'm going to, like Clint said, I'm going to tailor this rather than a book, let's say, is there a resource in regards to AI that you find yourself recommending more than any others to friends and colleagues?

Yeah.

So I would say there's a podcast that I really like that does a really good job in staying on top of the industry.

I learn a lot of new things.

So let me give you the name of that podcast, no affiliation.

I just really like it.

I've been with it for a while.

It's called the AI Daily Brief.

And so that one I really like.

And One of my sources, it's daily and they're talking about the latest news and the latest product releases.

Put them into context.

I really enjoy that one.

Yeah.

Clint and I have both listened to everyday AI a little bit.

When I compare those two, brief is much better.

You know, the everyday AI, he's not that technical.

He makes technical mistakes.

You know, there's.

There's still good content in there, but I don't think that he puts things into context as well because he's not as technically deep.

Okay, good to know.

All right, I've now added it to my library.

Thank you, sir.

All right, listen, Dr. Mark Allen, we are good.

This is such a rapidly changing space that by definition, everything that we've talked about is completely going to change before long.

So please don't hold it against me when I come beating down your door halfway through this year and probably again towards the end of the year, because this has been great.

I really enjoyed it.

Thank you so much for your willingness to share.

Your passion for healing, your passion for educating, your passion for having a positive impact on the people and communities around you is evident and it's had a positive impact on me today.

So thank you very much for that.

I appreciate it.

If any of our listeners would like to connect with you, find out more about you, or look to be a part of your Mastermind, what would be the most effective way for them to do that?

They can go to heroforge AI and there is an opportunity to schedule a consult with me.

I give free AI consults to help you to think about how you would use it, how you, you know, whether you might leverage what, which ones of our products.

And, you know, I'll continue to do that as long as I've got the time and the, you know, if you're really excited about the Mastermind, you can or, or any of the other products, you can sign up right there on the website.

That's excellent.

Thank you so much, Dr. Allen.

We greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

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