Air Force veteran Mike Smith has lived through the depths most people only fear: untreated bipolar disorder, two suicide attempts, homelessness, padded cells, institutionalization, and years of feeling forgotten by the world. But through it all, one thing kept him alive—faith. And one thing brought him clarity—thirty-five years of raw journaling, which now make up his book The Gutter Gospel.

In this powerful conversation, Mike opens up about:

• Growing up in chaos and losing his father young
• Being kicked out of the military
• Severe manic episodes, including hallucinations and restraints
• His time in homeless shelters and state institutions
• How journaling became his lifeline
• The moment God redirected his life toward helping others
• Why he now spends his days serving veterans, inmates, and the hungry
• How donations to Seeds of Hope Food Pantry are changing lives

If you or someone you know is struggling with mental illness, addiction, homelessness, or loss of faith, this episode is a reminder that rock bottom is not the end—and that redemption can begin in the gutter.

Do you have a story that needs told, Reach out here to be a guest: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1749520244560583e16c8276d

From the cold streets of Fargo to the warmth of God's grace, today's guest has lived through it all.

Mike Smith spent years homeless, broken, and battling mental illness.

But even in the darkest corners, he kept writing, journaling his pain, his prayers, and his search for meaning.

Over 35 years of notes became the gutter gospel, a story not just of survival, but of redemption.

Today, Mike walks the same street, streets where he once slept.

But this time, he's there to help others.

The lost, the addicted, the forgotten find their way back to hope and to God.

His message is simple and powerful.

We've all been in the gutter, but grace can still reach us there.

Please welcome, from Fargo, North Dakota, Mike Smith.

Hey, how's it going, Mike?

Thanks for coming on the show.

Hello, Don.

It's really nice to meet you, and thank you for having me on today.

Yeah.

So I know you were an Air Force veteran, so let's dive into a little bit of what.

What brought you to the Air Force?

Yeah, well, growing up.

I'll just kind of give you some context.

I grew up in Sauk Center, Minnesota, and lived there with my four siblings and my mom and dad.

My dad managed the JCPenney clothing store.

And about when I was 12 years old, he lost that job, and the family had some savings, so he was kind of out of options, had to support us all, so mom always stayed home and took care of the kids.

So this leads into the military.

Because what happened was after three years after that move, at age 15, my dad passed away of a massive heart attack.

And that was shortly after my first suicide attempt.

I. I attempted to take my life.

I should get that out there, that I tried to commit suicide twice in my life.

So anyway, after he passed, my mom tried running the clothing stores to the best of her ability, but she didn't have any experience, so therefore, she was coming home at the end of the day, making it clear that we were going to be losing the store and the house to the bank, so had to kind of make our own way in life.

So I tried college for a year, flunked out of there, and then that led me into the Air Force with no other place to go because, like I said, you know, home wasn't an option anymore.

So that led me into the military life.

That was in the mid-80s when I was in.

That was under the Ronald Reagan and his wife Nancy that had their war on drugs so long.

Behold.

I wound up getting into my old routine from high school by getting in with guys that were also smoking weed like I was.

So that was going on for a couple years.

And then one guy that we were doing that with got busted for coming on base and selling a pound of marijuana to an undercover cop.

So he named names of people he knew that were also using to kind of get a lighter sentence on himself.

And of course I, I popped up being one of the names.

So they booted me out of the military after being in there about two and a half years.

So, you know, I was stationed up at Shepherd Air Force Base, Wichita Falls, Texas.

And the old saying I always tell people is when you're in the military and you first go in there, they have you fill out what's known as a dream sheet, which is, you know, to list the bases that you would like to be stationed on.

And of course, you know, being young and wanting to see the world, I filled out everything to go overseas.

But I never got out of the state of Texas.

All of my training was in San Antonio on two different bases, both for a basic and also for my school specialty over at Brooks in San Antonio as well.

So, yeah, after getting kicked out, wound up coming back to the Fargo Morehead area, rented a U haul, packed up all my stuff, and I was really tough going because it was like there was a lot of hatred by people saying, you know, well, look at how he messed up that opportunity too.

So now, you know, I had to go work construction and do all this heavy 7 day, 12 hour shifts and never resting.

You can read that on my website.

It's called Catch My Fall, you know, and talks about how I saw my dad, who had been dead for eight years, telling me to go blow my own head off with the shotgun that I got from him out of his estate.

That was the only thing I got.

And so that kind of, you know, terrified me so much.

I didn't know until years later after I had another very severe manic break that, you know, I was bipolar.

I went undiagnosed for over 11 years.

I wasn't taking any medications.

And so anyway, that kind of takes you up to, out of the military and now trying to transition back into civilian life.

So that brings us up to speed pretty quick.

So.

Yeah, I think.

And it makes sense because back then, I don't think know bipolar and some of these other.

Mood enhancing diagnosis were really popular back then.

I don't.

I think that was kind of the beginning of starting to understand what was happening.

Right.

And you know, it is, it is frustrating because, you know, bipolar runs hand in hand as far as symptom wise with so many other diagnosis.

You know, I've seen people with bipolar get diagnosed with PTSD or, or vice versa.

Yeah.

And it is, it is a tough situation because you're really at the mercy of the, the expertise of the doctor, you know.

Yeah.

I always say, Don, that the practice in medicine and their practice and on my brain, you know.

Yeah.

It's not an exact science like you just said, you know.

So I, I went through years of struggles having cycled with severe mania several times.

Wound up in the.

That second champ sample chapter I mentioned was being in a padded cell in a straight jacket for three straight days touring hell.

And I.

And that after I got out of there, I could not function in life whatsoever when it happened.

I was the transit project manager, so I had like 26 employees underneath me for the metro bus and a lot of stress.

So one night I reached out, I. I was up late night and saw this infomercial about Tony Robbins, the Personal Power series, talking about how you can change your life and stuff.

And I was looking for answers.

And long story short, I was missing out on sleep.

And people that are bipolar.

Doctors will tell you that if you're missing out on sleep, that's a very.

Bad.

Mix of when you're already mentally kind of chemically not right in your head.

So it really was so intense after listening to those tapes and winding up in that padded cell.

My.

What led up to it was not just listening to the tapes, but my after doing it.

My wife said that when I started to break down and the ambul came to our house, she could see the eyes roll back in my head and I was screaming out in torment and that's how severe it was.

So I wanted to get that out there and say that was just one of at least a handful of manic episodes that I've endured through my life.

I've been on many psych units trying to get it right, many treatment centers and as you mentioned in the intro, two homeless shelters.

I had two civil commitments placed on me both in North Dakota and Minnesota.

Then they actually in two, two different jails.

And what they would do, Don, was they would put me in shackles in.

In the back of a paddy wagon.

And then they would take me from the state hospital out in Jamestown, which, to give you a reference, is 100 miles straight west of here.

So I was out there.

And they.

Every week, they'd put me in that situation, chained and in the back of that paddy wagon, and they would bring me to stand trial in front of different judges to beg for my freedoms.

And I was denied five weeks in a row because I was that mentally ill. And now I'm kind of to the point where everybody's given up on me.

I had already been in one homeless shelter, and finally they gave me my release from the state hospital, but it wasn't released back into society.

They took me from there into my second homeless shelter.

And afterwards, what they did was put me up on the upper level, where that's where all the veterans were.

And then on the lower level were people transitioning out of.

Out of the jails in Cass county to be trying to get, you know, back into society.

So we had the.

Basically the criminals downstairs and the veterans upstairs, and we ate all of our meals together.

So I'm in my.

That situation.

And one day, this is how my life kind of came full circle years later, was that I got mail.

One day, this lady that worked at the homeless shelter came into my room and said, mike, you got some mail.

And I was thinking to myself, well, I don't know who this is from, because everybody's pretty much given up on me.

So open it up.

And there's two big service checks in there for 100 back pay from the military.

And so I took that, packed up as fast as I could, left some clothes behind, just hightailed it out of there and got my own twin home years later.

And, well, right away, new car and everything else with my back pay.

So when you fast forward through my life, I know I'm going through it kind of quickly, and we can back up and ask questions later.

But I'm.

I'm thinking to myself that these days I'm involved with the jail chaplain ministry and trying to help other Veterans get their 100%, too.

And thank God that I've.

I've been successful just recently on four different ones, and it makes all the difference in the world.

It gives.

It gives them a.

A big hand up in life.

So that's one of my missions.

As you can see on my shirts here, 22 veterans per day with crosses.

That's the amount of vests to take their own life.

So I get my custom shirts out of Custom Inc. Out in Virginia and I have brand awareness going on.

So yeah, it was a tough life, you know, that I would not wish on anybody.

And thankfully I had the journaling I was going on and I got it published this past year in January out in Brooklyn, Publishers in New York.

And after that I just started looking into podcasting.

And so I didn't start that till the 1st of the year.

And as fate would have it, I went from having nothing to now later today at 4:30 I'm getting on a show for that reaches 83 countries in five continents and has her own TV channel.

We're going to record that at 4:30 today.

So if you, if you take a look at everything I was just sharing with you and say look at how far God brought this guy.

You know, I got featured on an article that you talked about in your intro in the Fargo form.

They did a write up on my story back in late September in, in their paper and I was blessed.

After that my podcasting doubled overnight and been busy ever since.

So God's good.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, and, and you know, a lot of people don't really understand, you know, especially people that are, are dealing with mental illnesses such as, as ptsd.

It seems like one of the first pillars that we knock over and lose is faith.

And, and I think that's, you know, intentional.

I think the, the disease knows, hey, this is a serious thing that could, could end my reign here.

So let's, let's, let's get rid of his face so he has nothing to fall back on.

Right.

And, and I, I know that affects a lot of people.

You know, myself as, as well.

Yeah.

And so I wanna, I wanna unwind just a little bit.

We'll back up just a little bit and talk about how, how long, when did you start journaling and, and what was it that, that made you decide to start documenting?

Because I think that is so important that people just, they don't take advantage of that ability.

Yeah.

There was two things that led to it.

The first one was those personal power tapes that I referred to from Tony Robbins.

Because in there he put, he says something to the effect of any life worth living is one worth recording.

Okay.

So that was the one thought that had it kind of start.

And then after my padded cell incident in 99, Thanksgiving in 99, I didn't have any real outlet and I remember seeing this guy come on Oprah Winfrey's Book of the Month Club.

And it was about this guy's trying to tell his true life story, like I just did, right?

The difference between me and him is that his was all made up.

And the reason we knew it was made up at the time, Oprah didn't know it, you know, so she was very kind to him in the interview.

But then that night, people he knew were calling into the studio saying, hey, this guy's fabricating almost everything in there.

So she invited him back, like a day or two later.

And this is what was the.

The spark that really led to my journaling.

It was what Tony said and what she said to this guy when she invited him back.

She said.

You know, how.

How is it that you came on my show with all these fabrications and stuff?

So basically, she's chewing them out.

And I turned to my wife and I say, you know, with everything I've been through in my life, I bet I could write my own journal and be true.

A.

And it'd be a lot more compelling than this.

Idiots.

And how did you get national TV exposure with the false book?

So then I started journaling after that, shortly after that, and there was this one that did not make the book.

When I got kicked out of my job as the bus manager, the only job I could find to function even halfway decent at was driving the cab taxicabs around at night, hauling the drunks around town.

So they would pick on me and make fun of me and get me so discouraged.

They'd say stuff like, what's the matter, you know, loser, can't you get a real job in life?

And all this other stuff.

And that led to my second suicide attempt, because I went home that one night and took an electrical cord in the basement of our house and started to string myself up.

And I remember this little still, quiet voice saying, mike, your life still has a purpose, you know?

And that stopped me.

So those are the two suicide attempts.

And it's just been such a wild life that the journaling was my only solace.

Like you said in your intro, you know, because when people give up on you, you have to have something to hold on to.

And you mentioned your faith.

Faith is number one.

But then you also need an outlet.

You need to be starting to get into serving others, which is a big part of what I'm doing today in the community with the jail chap.

And, you know, it's.

I don't know if you had a chance to read this, but in that article that was published, I Was heading down to Orlando to see about getting my book turned into a true life movie done at the Christian Film festival this past October 1st.

So a buddy of mine, about a month before I was set to go, and I had everything paid for already, he.

He said, mike, you really need to come out to this food pantry out here in Dilworth and watch the operation.

I really want you to meet the owners of that.

So, long story short, I took him up on the offer.

I brought a veteran with me that is living on hardly anything.

He needed food.

So that was the other reason I went.

So he get.

He's in line to get his box of food, and I'm watching this operation and those people just loving on all these people from the streets, trying to get a box of food to last them for the next week.

So I go home that night, and God was just working on my heart, saying, you know, are you really going to spend all that money, Mike, to go to Orlando and probably get.

Or possibly get shot down?

Or are you instead going to be a humble servant and help the people that I'm putting in front of you in your own backyard, in your community?

So what I do now is I post my book for sale on the bottom of my website, but I tell everybody that's not really what I want is book sales.

What I really want is to drive people to my donate tab on my website because I funnel all that money to the food pantry.

It's called Seeds of Hope out in Dilworth, and Blair and Jody Hill run it in town, and they're just the salt of the earth people.

So if you, if you're hearing this, you know, send them donations.

Blair called me last night and said that they're starting to get donations in from all over the United States, that they don't know where it's coming from.

And it's because I'm on these shows always sharing that message.

So.

Amen.

It's a good thing and it's a good cause.

Yeah.

And, and you know, that's.

That's one of the, the amazing things of.

Of today is, you know, with podcasting, you can reach so many more people, whether you have your own show or you're just guests on other shows, you know, that reach compounds and, and you never know how many people's lives you touch.

Right.

You know, but the one thing that you can guarantee is, is that you are reaching people.

And, and they are there.

There are people that are wanting to hear these messages or they wouldn't have been tuning in to begin with.

Right.

And.

And it's an amazing gift that, that we were given.

Right?

Yeah.

You know, there's my favorite verse in the Bible.

Don, sorry to interrupt you.

I was just.

You're good.

I was just going to share this with you and say that we've overcome by the.

And everybody's got a story to tell.

You know, it may not be as outrageous as mine, but that doesn't mean that you still don't have a voice that's going to matter to serve the kingdom, because I tell everybody, you know, that you are given individual gifts different from everybody else on the planet, and you've been given those gifts to serve God and help carry out the great commission to love on the hurting people, like the food pantry does, you know, feed the poor and worthwhile causes like that.

I also say that if you can't find anything to do in your own community, there's a Salvation army in almost every town.

You know, go down there and serve meals for one or two days and see if that doesn't change your outlook, you know.

So what I was going to share with you a second ago was when I was driving cab, this chapter didn't make the book, but I had a friend over to my house that was also a cab driver, and I'd been journaling that whole time on a chapter, 20 pages, front and back, called Isolation island, and how alone I felt driving cab at night, you know, and that didn't make the book because it was so long.

It's a book in and of itself.

So I decided to cut the fat out and just come with the basics, you know.

But, yeah, what I'll share is, you know, you can put in the footnotes my email address, which I know you have, and say, hey, if you want a free copy of the book, donate whatever amount you want to on the donate tab and Michael, email you a free copy of the book, a free copy of my radio interview, free copy of the article, free copy of everything.

We just want it all to go to the food pantry.

So there you go.

Yeah, absolutely.

And.

And I'll make sure that we get these links and, and everything up on the.

The video as well for people to see.

You know, journaling is.

Is, you know, kind of like a real time book, right?

It's, you know, you're.

You're not writing so much about the, The Past, but the recent, you know, the.

The now.

Right.

And I know when I wrote my first book, which was, you know, my.

My story in the military.

It'S very therapeutic.

You know, it puts you on the outside looking in.

Yeah.

And.

And if you can do it with clean eyes and.

And understand the mistakes and.

And what had happened in your choices, it is.

It is an amazing way to start healing.

Very true.

Did you find that same thing with journaling?

Yeah.

You know, another thing, you know, I didn't share with you yet, that kind of fueled it, too, was I have an aunt that passed away a few years ago.

But, um, when she came up to Fargo, if she was.

Her and her husband were both in private practice.

They were both physicians and out in New York City.

But anyway, when she was visiting, I had just kind of begun the journaling process back then, so I gave her those two sample chapters that are on my website.

And so she goes, well, this is so raw and honest, you know, so she encouraged me to take a writing class, which I never did.

I just kind of felt like, you know, I'm going to keep it raw and real, and I don't really need anybody to judge it.

I think in the end, I think the public will be its own judge, and it will stand or fall on its own merit.

And so far, it's been holding up pretty good because, like I said earlier, it's.

It's just the facts, Jack.

So, you know, it's everything.

Chronicle or chronological order about how my life unfolded from being in Sock as a kid and, you know, having a great big brother, a great dad that I miss to this day.

You know, I go down and visit him and my mom in the cemetery about once a month.

Like I said, it's only a half hour from Fargo, so make it a point to drive down there and kind of clear my head.

But, yeah, my big brother was my protector growing up, and so was my dad, you know, and it was like losing.

Losing him at an early age.

I think anybody can relate to probably wanting to end it, you know, in a new town where he didn't have hardly any friends.

So.

But, yeah, it was.

I wouldn't wish my life on anybody, especially that episode in the padded cell.

I didn't share this with you yet, but coming out of that, the nurse that was on station, about two, three days later, I'm in my room, not in the padded cell anymore.

And she said, micah, I want to share something with you.

And she said that when you were in that state mental state in that cell.

And I saw you in there, she said your eyes looked as big as.

And just like, you were like a cornered animal, you know, and sometimes when I share that on these shows, I get emotional because it's like that pain is still so raw and real, you know, And I'm trying to get the message out there to say, you know, eternity's for all the marbles, guys, and if I didn't tour actual hell, I wouldn't want to be there forever if it's even worse than what I did experience.

So I'll share that with you guys and get that out there and say, you know, turn to Christ before it's too late.

You know, as believers, that's.

That's what we're here to do.

Like I shared earlier, is to carry out the Great Commission and to honor God for everything he did for us on Calvary.

So share it with the world.

Yeah, and that's, you know, that's like what we said at the beginning.

You know, faith is.

Is one of the largest pillars.

And, you know, I don't blame anybody for what they believe in, but what I ask is that you believe in something.

You know, you have to.

You have to have faith in something, whether it's energy or you call it God, or you gotta have something, because without it, you're never going to stand on your own.

You're always going to fill out a place and lack of purpose and.

And all those things tie into.

To the faith side of.

Of your.

Your pillars.

Let me ask you this.

When.

While.

While you were.

You were homeless, were they still giving you medication and everything for bipolar at that point?

They were, yeah, they were done.

But the problem was, is that it wasn't the right medication.

Yeah.

You know, and looking back on my life, that is something that really, to this day, causes me a lot of pain.

You know, it's like, why did I have to go through that?

I'll share two.

Well, three things I'd like to share about it.

The first one is I was crying out to God, having a pity party when I was in the state institution, thinking to myself, you know, how did I wind up here?

And I looked up as I'm balling my head off, and there's this plaque on the wall that says, you've been given this life because you're strong enough to live it.

Right.

So that's one.

The second one is I remember this Christian radio show that I would listen to when I had this job way back in the 90s.

I was driving a route, and I would listen to those guys every day.

And one of them said to the other guy, he goes, you know, I have seven kids at home, and they're all high achievers in their career fields, doctors, lawyers, whatever.

Right.

And he goes, but then my second youngest, which is where I fall in line, is bipolar.

And he said, I'll bet you anything, Frank, that that little guy's going to outshine the rest of them by far.

And the reason I share that with you is to say that applies to my life.

So true.

And honestly, because I've been on almost every continent now and all over the world with my message just starting in January.

So, you know, it's full steam ahead.

And I happen to have an older sister that my.

Yeah, my very old.

The oldest one is a doctor.

So it kind of ties it all together, you know, and when we were talking earlier about, you know, priorities and that kind of thing, the way I look at life, and it's in the book is the acronym called growing, which is God.

First R for recovery, O for others, then W for work.

You know, you got to get your priorities in right.

Wine.

And look at life that way, through that lens.

Yeah.

I mean, man, that is.

I've never thought of, you know, that acronym before, but.

But it's perfect.

It's.

It is.

Is right on.

And it's the keys to unlocking new doors.

Yeah.

It may not be the easiest doors, you know, because healing is.

If it was easy, then there would have no meaning.

Right.

Yeah.

But when you get to the other side, you look back at what you accomplished and.

And you see the.

The pit that you were in, standing from the top of it.

It's.

It is truly amazing, you know?

Yes.

And I'll share this with you, too, that I remember one of my favorite Bible verses.

Looking at it now, besides the one I shared with you already is right out of the beginning of Psalms chapter 40, which says.

You.

You took me out of the miry pit and put my feet on a sure foundation.

And there's a lot of truth in that.

With my own life, you know, it was like I was in the pit of all those different places.

But now I now on my feet, are on a sure foundation.

So that's the three points I wanted to make about it.

But, yeah, you know, it's.

I'm trying to try to encourage people as much as I can to say, you know, hang in there, please don't pull the trigger.

I give out my personal cell phone as well and say, hey, you know, if you feel like you don't have anybody that you can talk to call me because I've been through all the wars.

I have help links up on my website@theguttergospel.com it's called Help for Everyone.

You click on that tab, there's links in there for the suicide prevention, the prayer line, 24 hour seven.

And you know, it's, you just gotta, you know, reach out to people and that's, I think the hardest part is to break out of your shell and say, I need help.

You know, something's not right here.

And like you said, there's a lot more awareness now going on in the mental health field.

When you go online and you look at the most successful or biggest podcast, almost all of them are dealing these days with mental health and purpose for life.

And that kind of thing is what people are looking into.

And it just so happens that I have gone through my wars and it causes me to have a very empathetic heart for the hurting people.

So I think that overall, that's what God, that's why God brought me through all those trials, you know, was to say, you know, there's hope on the other side.

Yeah.

I, I can't.

You know, when, when you look at where we're at today, our youth and, and the mental health crisis that has happened in America.

Yeah.

You know, it is, it is tough to, to understand what people are going through because as a society we have lost that ability for empathy.

Yeah.

We have closed our minds to anything that doesn't fit our, our agendas.

Yeah.

And it is tough to, to reach these people because the one thing that these guys that, that are not going through, it don't understand is no matter what you say to them, whether it's the homeless guy in the corner, and yet you're yelling, go get a damn job or, or whatever, that's nothing compared to what they're saying to themselves.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'll share this with you.

I'm glad you made that point because I'll address that right now.

When my mom was alive, she had very low self esteem and mental illness as well.

Right.

And so I was talking to my brother one night about it and saying how, you know, she always kind of talks down to me and stuff.

And anyway, I shared that with him and he said exactly what you just shared.

He said, mike, you know, nobody hates mom more than mom.

So.

But you know what I did, Don?

This just happened a couple months ago and I shared this with the guys in my small men's group.

And that is When I did take that trip down to Barnesville a couple months ago, I just had to say it out loud at the cemetery to both of them and say, you know what?

I think given all the challenges that you guys had in life, raising us, I think he did a pretty good job overall.

And ever since then, you know, I carried that, that burden for years.

And I didn't share this story with you yet, but I will now, and that is that.

My dad, God bless him, man, he came home intoxicated the night before he died.

And we had a pool table in our basement.

So I'm in my bedroom right next to the pool table in the rec room, and he's in there shooting pool and keeping me up so I can't get sleep to get to school on time the next day.

And I remember crying out to God, saying, please just kill him tonight.

Right?

And it just so happened the next morning, my brother comes running down, says, dad's dead, Dad's dead.

So I carried all of that, you know, self abuse throughout my life thinking, did I cause that?

You know, and so that took all.

That's probably why I had to go through all the therapy and everything else, because everybody said, and still do, you look just like them.

The first chapter in my book is Born into Chaos.

Little Joe, because everybody call me Little Joe, and he'd take me fishing and stuff with him and my brothers.

So.

But yeah, that stuck with me for it still lingers, you know, but so I'm not perfect.

I'm just in the process, like we all are, trying to heal up and, you know, make the impact we can in society while we're all still here.

Yeah.

You know, that's, you know, what you just said is, is the key to, to beginning the healing process.

Right.

Everybody that goes through these things, you on this side of this is not the same you that you were when you were entering these, these situations.

And sometimes, you know, and you go back even a little bit further.

The you growing up was not the same you as the one that was going through these situations.

And that's where it becomes difficult because in order for you to start healing, you want to have to learn how to start loving the new you.

Right.

Except the fact that you're not the same person that you was before and, and find common ground to.

Understand that I am still me and, and I'm still worth loving.

Yeah.

And that is, that's the hardest part, man, is, is, is, is accepting that.

I struggled with that.

It was one of the reasons when I, I got out of the military.

I was planning suicide because I hated me.

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of people in that book, in that, you know, stage in life these days.

So, you know, then you factor in the fentanyl like we didn't talk about yet.

But all of that stuff is pounding everybody on both sides in all over the world.

And I think, you know, it was a little bit prophetic.

I think God gave me that title, the GutterGospel.com because it's like he shared in the intro.

Everybody's been in the gutter in life to some point or the other.

It's just a matter of extremes, you know.

So are you an alcoholic, a drug addict, a gambling addict?

I'll share this with you.

This, this is just took place about a month ago.

So this podcast is called Everybody's Addicted to Something.

And she invited me on her show.

So long story short, she messages me about two hours before the show's gonna start and says, hey, I'm sorry, but can we reschedule this for a few days later?

Right.

So I said, yeah, sure, you know, no problem.

I'm not going anywhere.

So we did it.

And so she comes on a few days later.

Dawn, here's what she said to me.

True story.

She goes, mike, I have to apologize to you for canceling the other day.

But what I didn't know was that when I got home last night, the sheriff removed us from our house because my husband has a bad gambling addiction.

He didn't tell me he hadn't been paying the mortgage for the last several months.

So now I'm living with my mom and going through a divorce.

So there you go, you know, everybody's addicted to something.

She's the host and that happened to her.

So, you know, that kind of says it all right there.

Yeah, everybody's doing something.

Yeah, I, yeah, absolutely.

You know, and, and again, I think.

That'S one of the problems that, that sends us even further down that, that hole is, is we start feeling the pain, then we start self medicating to get rid of the pain.

But then the, the side effects of the self medication, I. E. You know, gambling and, and trying to get that, that rush of success.

Yeah.

You end up getting kicked out of your house, which now adds even more pain.

And, and it's just a, it's.

It's like the devil's handball.

You know, they just.

Exactly.

He loves playing with it and it is tough to, to accept it and then go back and make amends for it and then still find time to, to celebrate you as, as a person.

And it's very tough.

I want to dig into a little bit of your book.

Right.

And.

And you're kind of a unique case because a lot of people's journals are just in their head.

They say, I'm going to write a book, but it all comes from their mind of.

You know, even for me, I didn't journal anything.

So, you know, when I started writing my book, it was more of just a document to my family to explain what had changed me and what I went through, because I never shared that with my family.

You know, growing up, you know, I spent 68 months in combat.

And to have the rationalization that I'm the same guy I was before then is, Is unrealistic.

Right?

Yeah.

So I didn't have anything to go off of.

But you had been keeping these notes for so many years.

Did you still find it hard to.

To go through and relive some of these things and, and, and write them?

Yeah, there was a lot of tears, a lot of.

Like you said, so if.

Pity, self awareness, a whole combination of emotions.

And it took not.

Well, everybody knows this now.

It took 35 years.

So it's definitely not a get rich quick scheme.

You know, I just, I was slow about it.

You know, I just, I thought to myself, well, what happened?

I'll back up one step that got it finally pushed over the edge to get it published in January was I watched my best friend die of cancer this past December 14th.

And you know, I was.

After that, I would, I would take him out to eat, I would take him to his radiation appointments.

The guy was my closest friend that I met at the jail chaplain event one time.

So now we're working with Brad and dealing with his illness and stuff.

And I'll never forget, I was sitting there with him, having supper one time with him, took him out to eat, and he asked me this poignant question.

He said, mike, do you think I'm gonna die soon?

That was his question, right?

So I said, well, you know, Brad, here's the way I would answer that.

The way I would look at that right now, I would say that even if that does happen, look at what you're leaving behind for me and everybody else to deal with in this broken, sick, disease world.

All the pain and misery, man, you're going to be up there in eternity having the time of your life, you know, and put in a good word for me because I'm not sure I'm going to make it.

So he got a good laugh out of that, but it was the truth.

It's like, you know, so he passed December 14th, and then I kind of fell into a deep hole for a couple of weeks thinking this isn't what Brad would want, you know, so the first of the year came around and I made a commitment to him.

I said, you know, I've had these notes for years, so I'm going to actually do something with them.

And so it's a lot of it's to honor Brad, but also to heal myself and help others too.

So it's kind of an all encompassing deal where it's like, you know, if it can bless somebody, then it would have been a life well lived, despite all the trials I had to go through and suffering.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And, and, and I, I agree with you as, as somebody that, you know, I haven't shared your same, your burdens.

But, you know, like you said, we all have our own.

And.

You know, it's, it's weird because now that I'm on the path that God wanted me to be on.

Yeah.

You know, I don't make any money, hardly any money at all.

I, I, you know, I don't make anything from doing the podcast.

I don't make anything from my non profit, you know, but man, I am, I am a hundredfold happier than I ever was when I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

You know, I was just miserable during those times.

Yeah.

And it's because I was on my path.

I wasn't on what God's path was.

Yeah.

Yeah, well said.

There's a lot of truth in that.

You know, I hear that same story resonate with a lot of people when I'm on these shows.

And it's like, you know, once I, I remember and I put this on my homepage, on my website, the saying by Mark Twain, I don't know if you read that, but it says the two most important days in someone's life is the day they were born and then the day they find out why, you know?

Yeah, that's true.

So.

Wow, that is good.

Yeah, there's a lot of truth in that.

Like you just shared, you know, you were miserable making all that money, but now you're on a lot clearer path in life and, you know, you're doing God's work.

And that's where I'm at with the food pantry.

I gave up that trip idea to go down to Florida and it's like, man, if that thing's going to be made into a movie someday, that'll Be icing on the cake.

But that's not where I want to be this, at this time in my life.

I was going in that direction.

You know, God lovingly reached out to me and said, I'm going to take you in 180 degree turn and take you this way so that you can be a broken servant and help those people out at the food pantry.

And that resonates with a lot of people because it's like, you know, instead of being self centered, it's like being, like I said in the acronym, grow, you know, others, you got to put that in there, you know, God, recovery, others and work.

So they all tie together.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

You know, I wanna, I wanna, I see what you're doing with the book as far as using it as a gateway to help others and gain donations for the food pantry.

But when you first started publishing it and you said, hey, let's go get this published, what was your hope to come out of it?

I think a lot of it was to discuss everything that we already covered in the last several minutes, which is I'm not doing it to get rich.

Because as I also said a few minutes ago, you know, if somebody was trying to make money off it, a, they would have put it together a heck of a lot faster, B, you know, they would have gone on a book tour or something.

But yeah, I didn't do any of that.

I just got to the point where God broke me and said, you're here to feed these guys, you know, feed the poor.

That's not, that's not going to have anything to do with you getting rich.

You know, I got my disability pay, but that does, that only covers so much because, you know, I've got my mortgage and everything else.

So I'm trying to make as much money off the donations as I can to get it over to the food pantry because they're, they're looking to expand and help out, you know, even more people in the community.

It just so happens that I called a meeting after I got my article published with organization out here called the FM Area foundation.

And what those guys do, Don, is they handle all the wealth in the, in the community that are looking to invest in worthwhile nonprofits.

So I called a meeting with the executive director named Eric Wilke and set him up with my buddy Blair that runs the food pantry.

So the three of us are going to meet out there next Tuesday and look at him trying to get donations coming in from, you know, like I said, through their organization.

They're very excited about seeing the operation stuff.

So everything I can do is kind of focused on that these days, as you can tell.

So.

And Blair's thankful because now he's starting to get donations in from different states around the planet.

And you know, it's like, Mike, is this you?

I mean, where are these coming from?

You know, like, yeah, I don't want to take credit for it, but if it's helping you, like he just got a five hundred hundred dollar donation last night, so he called me and that goes a long way with those guys, you know, so.

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's, you know, same with, with my non profit.

500 donation would, would sustain us for months, you know.

Yeah.

And it's, it is a blessing when it, when it does happen.

If I'm not mistaken, you said you also have a podcast, correct?

I know what I do is I go on something I just joined.

When did I get this done?

About two weeks ago called pod pitch.com.

so I don't have my own show.

I go as a guest on other people's shows.

And the reason for that is I'm not real tech savvy.

So I don't want to spend a lot of time, you know, editing programs and doing all the other stuff.

I'd rather go on other people's shows that are established that already have a following like that Swaggy Vets that had just over 3,000 people respond to my interview here last week.

So that's, that's what fuels me.

And it makes more sense than trying to start my own show because no one's ever heard you can google me and find, you know, just put in the Mike Smith the Gutter gospel and you'll see all the results.

But still, I mean, to start your own from scratch, as you know, it takes a lot of dedication to build up an audience and stuff and it takes a lot of time and work.

So yeah, we, we've been, I've been doing this now.

I think I'm on year four.

And yeah, you're, you are absolutely right behind the scenes.

Takes a lot more time away from you.

And, and yeah, I respect what you, what you just said because you know, when you're trying to get the word out, it's tough because to get the word out through podcasting, you first have to establish yourself and there's a lot of frustration that comes with that and it takes away the focus of your mission as well.

So let me ask this, what is it that if you could look into the future.

And with your website and Your book and your dedication to the community.

What would you like to see change or happen in the future to one show results and, and have less homeless people and, and less mental illness that, that's out there?

Well, I'm not sure that I can really answer that with, you know, as much time as you want to give me because it's so all encompassing.

You know, you got to get them into treatment center, you got to get them into those small groups that I'm involved with.

And in the church you got.

In church, you gotta love on them.

And a lot of times, you know, well, every time that's not easy to do.

Yeah.

You know, people that have had all those struggles, I'll share this with you.

I just so happens that my one good friend that's still alive from high school has a daughter that is bipolar and living with them because she's been in and out of different places as well and having a real battle with her mental illness.

She's beating on them, she's not talking, she's, you know, violent and stuff.

So, you know, how do you reach somebody like that?

So that's, that's why I say it's kind of a tough question because, you know, with all the illegal drugs and everything, these people get messed up.

So mentally it's like, you know, I don't think I have enough patience time to, to get out there.

But if, you know, if we can get some more awareness out there and just say, hey, you know, this guy's been through a lot of battles, so look him up and reach out to him and he'll point you in the right direction to at least start the process to get help.

So that's what I would say.

Go to those help tabs on my website and you have all my contact info.

So that's what I do when I start my day each day.

Done.

I read all those emails, send out my template to get them the contact stuff for the book and everything and just love on them and say, you know what if this blesses you?

Donate whatever you feel you want to on that, on that link on my website and I'll just push it forward to the, to the food pantry guys.

So that's, that's my mission and that's why I'm still alive.

I'll be 61 Sunday.

And I'm like, if somebody would have told me I would have lived to be that long in high school, I would have said, how is that possible?

Yeah, I think a lot of us can, can say that as well, you know, you, you brought up that point and, and that's really kind of what I was, was diving at was, you know, when you're dealing with the homeless especially you know, not just veterans but, but everybody.

Yeah, there's a lot more to it.

You know, it doesn't take much to, to put a roof over somebody's head.

Right.

But if you, if you don't find fix the underlying problems, then you wasted that roof and you wasted the time spent doing it because it's going to struggle.

And, and the one thing I wish our, our government would do especially for our veterans is change the way the va. Make the VA a networking organization and, and send, you know, send it people out to like a road map.

If some you, a veteran comes in and, and they're having mental, you know, send them to a department that only handles that they're not part of the va.

They're, they're either their own private practice or whatever and that allows the VA to handle a lot of those underlying things like not having any identification, not having an address to get a job, you know, and it allows the them to do what they do best and that's deal with the red tape.

Right.

Because that stuff is, is, is hard.

You know, I, I, my brother has spent most of his life homeless and I have twice had to help him get ID and everything else back.

And, and our, our government's not set up to make that easy.

It really isn't.

Yeah, that's a shame.

I just, I can't help but think about, you know, all the people I met in those different places, especially out the state institution.

When they took me out there, I was cycling so severely that they put a four point tie down on me.

Right.

And they were so one guy they were putting there I was on a slab like a mattress on a slat on a concrete slab floor.

And so they would, they were tying up my feet, my arms and everything.

And I remember looking at this guy trying to tie my left hand down.

I turned to him and I said so Satan, we finally meet face to face and I spit on him.

So then they put the spit guard on me.

So there again, you know, there's so many manic episodes I've gone through in life that it makes me unfortunately something kind of as an expert but by default, you know, I didn't want, I didn't choose this path in life.

But it's like I was sharing earlier about it.

It gives me an empathetic heart to people now that are going through that stuff because I've I understand it and that's what the website's all about and what my mission's all about these days.

So yeah, I, I think it's getting traction.

At least there's signs of that.

So I just started with the food pantry.

Let's see, it would have been, oh, the first of the month in October and we're already getting them donations and other meetings.

Awesome.

Yeah.

So you know, it, like I said, it shifted me 180 degree turn to go into the conference instead going to help those guys out.

So it's a blessing, it really is to see that operation in action and see their hearts and you know, they just love on these people that aren't all that lovable and don't always thank them and that kind of thing.

But you know, I'll share this story with you, Don, and that is that the first night I was out there watching the operation, this mom with her little boy walks in to get their boxes of food and they were carrying a little puppy.

So I said, hey, I like that little dog, man.

What's his name?

So the boy like lights up like a Christmas tree.

He starts, you know, saying, oh, he's Charlie or whatever his name was.

So I said, well, I'm a big dog lover, man.

I got three of them at home.

And he goes, three, you got to get a fourth one.

So he's telling me this, right?

And he's.

So he goes, you got pictures?

Can I come to your house and play with them and all this stuff.

And it's like, you know, man, that was such a blessing.

I wouldn't have experienced any of that at that conference.

That was God saying, you know what?

He was working on my heart saying, this is where you need to be.

Yeah.

You know, you don't need to be going to Florida for some stupid conference.

So.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And that, I'm glad you shared that with us because that, that is truly to the point and shows exactly how the smallest little thing can, can mean the world to somebody else.

Yeah.

Well, I'm gonna bring you forward and, and give you the opportunity to tell everybody where one they can donate to that food pantry and where they can follow you and, and get your books and, and keep up with everything that you're doing.

Yeah, you can go to my YouTube channel, which is just go to YouTube and type in all together the gutter gospel.

No.com or anything else.

Just go to YouTube, type in the Gutter Gospel.

Then you'll see quite a few of the shows I've been on.

You can also email me, which I know you have done, but I'll give it out.

It's Mike's M I k e s gift.

G-I f t82yahoo.com so you can do that.

You can look me up when you.

Want to get the book or donate.

The donate tab is on the guttergospel.com the farthest tab up on the right hand side of that.

So yeah, that's, that's how you can get a hold of me.

And I'd be happy to help you as much as I can because I know there's a lot of hurting people out there that really need that message.

So feel free to reach out to me.

I read those like I said, right away when I wake up and then I read out of the life Recovery Bible to start my day and that's.

Then I start doing the shows.

So that's kind of my routine in life these days.

Okay.

Yeah.

You know, I hope everybody.

You know, man, you might want to do a self check if you didn't get something out of this, this episode because there's a lot of raw pain that, that we just discussed and, and whether we're on the other side of that now doesn't matter because there's somebody else that's starting that same journey and struggling.

So if you know somebody, especially suicide wise 988, if you're a veteran, option one, you, you now have just learned another resource that you can reach out with.

The guttergospel.com you can always reach out to me as well.

I've had four years worth of guests on here and I could probably point you in the direction to a place that can help you.

So I hope all of y' all got something out of this and enjoyed the show.

I know I did.

I pray that all of you all have a great day.

And don't forget, don't let the day kick your ass.

Kick the day's ass.