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Building Mindful Leaders Today With Barry Moulsdale
Episode 8 • 30th May 2023 • Mindful You • Alan Carroll
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Alan interviews Barry Moulsdale on this week’s episode of Mindful You. Barry Mousdale is the Founder and Managing Partner of Anfield Business Consultants. Barry talks about the importance of self-awareness as a leader and how many leaders across the globe lack this important skill. In order to be a great leader you need to be vulnerable and honest. Barry believes vulnerability is one of the greatest traits a leader can possess. As a leader you need to be in the present moment and truly able to listen. Barry is of the opinion that with emotional intelligence you can lead your team to their highest potential.

About the Guest:

Barry Moulsdale is the Founder and Managing Partner of Anfield Business Consultants, one of the most professional organizations in the leadership development, career coaching and strategic business consulting fields.

Barry has 25+ years of leadership experience heading many divisions of multi-national consumer goods and manufacturing companies in North America. Having undergone his own successful leadership journey, Barry formed Anfield 16 years ago to bring joy to people’s work lives and guide them on their journey to reach the pinnacle of leadership.

When he is not coaching, Barry is a happily married, father of three, living in Oakville, Ontario Canada. He spends his free time coaching his youngest son and teammates in Little League Baseball, attempting to lower his golf handicap, enjoying the peace and tranquility of nature and walking and playing with his 2-year old Mini Aussie Labradoodle, named Scout.

About Alan:

Alan Carroll is an Educational Psychologist who specializes in Transpersonal Psychology. He founded Alan Carroll & Associates 30 years ago and before that, he was a Senior Sales Training Consultant for 10 years at Digital Equipment Corporation. He has dedicated his life in search of mindfulness tools that can be used by everyone (young and old) to transform their ability to speak at a professional level, as well as, to reduce the psychological suffering caused by the misidentification with our ego and reconnect to the vast transcendent dimension of consciousness that lies just on the other side of the thoughts we think and in between the words we speak.

Personal: https://www.facebook.com/alan.carroll.7359

Business: https://www.facebook.com/AlanCarrolltrains

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aca-mindful-you/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindfulnesseminar/

Web Site: https://acamindfulyou.com/

Transcripts

Alan Carroll:

Welcome to the mindful U podcast. Today's

Alan Carroll:

guest, Barry Mozelle, who has spent over 25 years focusing in

Alan Carroll:

on the conversation of developing leaders, developing

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executives, how can you build successful teams? How can you

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navigate through the churning things and issues and ups and

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downs of the situations that we're facing in our societies

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and our businesses worldwide. And I'm happy to have him today

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sharing about how mindfulness being present, communication is

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all a part of developing leaders. So I'd like to welcome

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Barry to the mindful you podcast, I bury the listener

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with a question about leadership. Let's start with a

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question about mindfulness. And how do you see, first of all,

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how do you see mindfulness and the ability to be present and

Alan Carroll:

mindful in the moment? And how is that connected to being a

Alan Carroll:

leader and being present in the moment?

Barry Moulsdale:

Great question. I would say that the number one

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flaw that we observe in leaders, is a lack of self awareness. And

Barry Moulsdale:

what I mean by that is, it usually takes leadership 360

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reviews, or takes personality assessments for them to better

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understand their own motivators or behaviors, or blind spots, to

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have a better sense of self. And then we go through an exercise

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or practice that really shifts them from being a reflexive

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leader, to being a more reflective leader. And the irony

Barry Moulsdale:

of this journey, Alan is, if I were to ask 100, leaders, how

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would they naturally solve this simple problem, over 80% of them

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would admit or say that they would do it the right or the

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reflective way. But the irony is when you then put them to task

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and you role play, and video, record them, solving a very

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simple everyday problem 99.5% of those people recorded, and we've

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recorded in this journey, not me, but the people who utilize

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this intellectual property have recorded over half a million

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people doing this, and 99.5% of them no matter how friendly they

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are, naturally, act like they're in the Savannah versus the

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business world, and instinctively solve the problem.

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So the reason I say that is, it's two things. One is being

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mindful of self, and being able to understand and go through

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assessment and discovery and feedback, to get a better real

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perspective, not how you see yourself, which matters, but

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more importantly, how others see and interact with you. That will

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be number one. And then number two, and I can relate to this,

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because this is exactly the journey I went on, that drove me

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into wanting to do this for so many others. Number two is, even

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when you've learned those tools, you're shifting from what I call

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Allan, an unconscious incompetence, meaning you just

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saw the only one know why you instinctively do it, through a

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mindfulness journey, all the way through to what we call

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unconscious competence, to then know and have the natural skills

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to actually be reflective in any interaction with your people,

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your clients, your customers, and anybody else. And the

Barry Moulsdale:

difference is actually being able to effectively listen. And

Barry Moulsdale:

being mindful of the situation. And being mindful that the

Barry Moulsdale:

person you're in front of has a story to tell. They have

Barry Moulsdale:

challenges that they're facing. And instead of solving them for

Barry Moulsdale:

them, when you think you're doing a great service. They

Barry Moulsdale:

think like they ultimately walk away being told and feel

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dismissed and feel sometimes even to the point of stupid,

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right? You thought you were in there great. They didn't see it

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the other way around. So it's being able to be mindful of

Barry Moulsdale:

putting yourself in the other person's shoes and asking the

Barry Moulsdale:

right questions and structuring the conversation. Giving your

Barry Moulsdale:

data to make sure you're aligned. And then collectively

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working together and empowering that person who has the problem

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to go off and then try to solve the problem. So it's it's

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certainly a strong sense of awareness, maybe not exactly the

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scientific term of mindfulness that you're offering. But

Barry Moulsdale:

ultimately, what it boils down to, is being mindful in the

Barry Moulsdale:

moment. And one of the things that we teach people is how to

Barry Moulsdale:

observe when they're really good at it. And then observe when

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they're still challenged with as they're moving from conscious

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competence and awareness of the skill to then making it

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subconscious or unconscious. And to having that happening

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naturally. You know, things like leaving your phone on the other

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side of the room, closing your laptop and moving to another

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part of the room. So you're having a one on one discussion

Barry Moulsdale:

intently, without distraction, as a leader, not worrying about

Barry Moulsdale:

being efficient, to keeping the trains running on time in your

Barry Moulsdale:

schedule, but being effective and present in the moment with

Barry Moulsdale:

that person, and then utilizing all these tools.

Alan Carroll:

Wow, so many, so many sweet words, you said there

Alan Carroll:

that are just gold minds to be able to uncover self awareness,

Alan Carroll:

observation being in the present moment. All those are terms that

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I mindfulness person would say, Yep, the idea is to be present

Alan Carroll:

in the present moment. But then then the question is, well, if

Alan Carroll:

they're not present in the present moment, if they're not

Alan Carroll:

self aware, then where are they? Where are they in their head?

Alan Carroll:

Where they're not? If they're not here in this meeting? Where

Alan Carroll:

the heck are they?

Unknown:

They're, they're thinking about the problem that

Unknown:

came up themselves they have to solve. They're thinking about

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their calendar, and what's next? And how do I get this person out

Unknown:

of my office, so I can get my five minute break in. So I can

Unknown:

answer those three, pending urgent emails, and so on, and so

Unknown:

on and so forth. Right? It's the natural inclination that leaders

Unknown:

feel that others observe them to have to be efficient. And look

Unknown:

like they've got it all together. But in reality, none

Unknown:

of us have it all together. Right? So it's the ability to be

Unknown:

vulnerable, and admit that and be humble, and show weakness,

Unknown:

and show that you don't have the answers. Like, you know,

Unknown:

everyone's given the great interview advice. If you get

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asked the question, and you don't know the answer, or via

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customer and sales, you'll make way more of a positive

Unknown:

impression on that person. They say, You know what? I don't know

Unknown:

the answer. I'm sorry. But you know, what I'm gonna do, I'm

Unknown:

gonna get you that answer. I'm going to commit to finding that

Unknown:

answer. And through hell or high water, and I know it's dependent

Unknown:

on the people getting me that answer, I want to get back to

Unknown:

you in this amount of time. Right. So it's that mindfulness

Unknown:

and that commitments to being humble and vulnerable. That

Unknown:

impacts our interaction with other people, whether it's in

Unknown:

life, or whether it's in work, or whether it's, you know, in a

Unknown:

pyramid organization, where you have the authority of being a

Unknown:

boss, but an authoritative boss, who has the title. And I'll

Unknown:

refer to John Maxwell, a very good leader who writes on

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leadership, good level one is you have a title because you're

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the boss. Yep. There's five levels to evolve to. Right, and

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we help people on that journey to understand them, and how to

Unknown:

apply different tools in becoming that fifth level

Unknown:

generation. Fifth Level category, if you will, a leader.

Alan Carroll:

Let's take a look at that word. vulnerability.

Alan Carroll:

Sure. And we'll look at the word of characteristics of a

Alan Carroll:

professional leader. I'll use the word professional leader,

Alan Carroll:

someone who, who has been in the been in the driver's seat has

Alan Carroll:

driven the vehicle has experienced, and on the journey

Alan Carroll:

they have learned how to be more reflexive, be more aware of what

Alan Carroll:

is going on in the reality in which they live, and some of the

Alan Carroll:

characteristics of a person who is good at the game that good at

Alan Carroll:

the leadership game. And one of the ones he pointed out was the

Alan Carroll:

area of vulnerability and being able to not have it all

Alan Carroll:

together, to be able to realize that most of the knowledge in

Alan Carroll:

the world you don't know. And so often, you're going to be asked

Alan Carroll:

what are what are the answers and vulnerability means exactly

Alan Carroll:

what But you said is that, I don't know, however, I work for

Alan Carroll:

the largest organization in the United States, and we have

Alan Carroll:

resources. And that's why you want to do business with me,

Alan Carroll:

I'll go contact my resources. And I'll get back to you. And

Alan Carroll:

one of the characters

Unknown:

go on, for sure. And to take that further, you know, all

Unknown:

the great leaders, I've had the fortune to either work with

Unknown:

train interview on my YouTube Leadership Series will however I

Unknown:

find them and interact with them. The vulnerability comes

Unknown:

from just a more human to human mentality and approach. They

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don't wake up thinking that these are my employees, they

Unknown:

wake up thinking about, these are people on my team. These are

Unknown:

people whose lives they have a responsibility for, and not just

Unknown:

themselves, but also their families. And the best quote,

Unknown:

ever heard of a leaders was, hey, if I'm never the smartest

Unknown:

person in the room, as a leader, it's time for me to leave. I

Unknown:

need to be the most mindful person in the room to your point

Unknown:

earlier. But I have absolutely should not ever be the smart and

Unknown:

just admitting that is the first step in vulnerability to

Unknown:

surround yourself with subject matter experts who know a heck

Unknown:

of a lot more than you do. Regardless of whether the topic

Unknown:

is HR, finance, sales, marketing, operations, logistics

Unknown:

supply chain, I can go on and on. But that's what makes a

Unknown:

great leader is understanding that of self.

Alan Carroll:

I love it. I love it, I think of a Tony Robbins

Alan Carroll:

quote. And Tony Robbins said you want to operate with people who

Alan Carroll:

are league above you. And it's like, oh, no, they're much

Alan Carroll:

smarter than me. Well, you know, the, the tide rises all the

Alan Carroll:

ships. So by hanging out with people who have a greater

Alan Carroll:

understanding of the subject matter, allows you to be in that

Alan Carroll:

vibration, you know, and begins to elevate yourself.

Unknown:

And if you're comfortable in your own skin,

Unknown:

and humble enough to admit you don't know, and that's why you

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surround yourself with subject matter experts. In essence, by

Unknown:

choosing to do that, you're actually showing the first stage

Unknown:

of vulnerability, because you don't fear replacement. You

Unknown:

don't fear not being the smartest, you don't fear not

Unknown:

being seen as the highest IQ. What great leaders all have in

Unknown:

common Allah is they have enough practical experience and acumen,

Unknown:

to have acquired enough level of IQ, to understand concepts to be

Unknown:

in the present to digest information. Yep, and offer a

Unknown:

perspective or an opinion that has business IQ sense related to

Unknown:

it. But that's just the only have to have enough of that.

Unknown:

What truly great leaders have is the highest level of EQ. And if

Unknown:

there's one common trait amongst all the different personality

Unknown:

types, regardless, people used to think in the 60s, oh, the

Unknown:

aggressive dominant drivers are are the only ones that make the

Unknown:

best leaders, not the case. So it's having that EQ and self

Unknown:

awareness and understanding the personality traits of others,

Unknown:

and chameleon yourself to how to relate to this person, because

Unknown:

there are this personality style. And these are their

Unknown:

specific intrinsic motivators. And vice versa, depending on the

Unknown:

situation, and who you're in front of just that conscious

Unknown:

awareness of adapting itself to the individual nature of that

Unknown:

one other person at a time. And that's only level two or three.

Unknown:

That makes a huge compelling impact on the receiver of that

Unknown:

interaction on that exchange.

Alan Carroll:

Wow. So let's go back and get the definition of

Alan Carroll:

EQ so my audience will know what that means. Yeah, basically,

Alan Carroll:

it's

Unknown:

emotional intelligence. It's the other type of

Unknown:

intelligence where there's lots of batteries of tests out there

Unknown:

that measure your IQ, you know, how, how intellectually smart

Unknown:

are you? Emotional Intelligence is how aware of environments are

Unknown:

you? Do you have the ability to understand someone else's

Unknown:

motivations? Do you have the ability to observe and

Unknown:

understand why people behave the way in which they behave? Do you

Unknown:

have a comprehensive understanding of your own blind

Unknown:

spots, to know that in moments of pressure and stress, this is

Unknown:

a natural tendencies that in which you naturally revert to

Unknown:

under pressure and higher though Have behaviors impact others.

Unknown:

That's really emotional intelligence. And being aware in

Unknown:

the moment.

Alan Carroll:

That's very much tied in with mindfulness.

Alan Carroll:

Mindfulness has a lot to do with being able to have. One of the

Alan Carroll:

sayings is, you're welcome to have strong positions. But hold

Alan Carroll:

them lightly. And when you have a strong position, you can hold

Alan Carroll:

it lightly. It allows for flexibility. And flexibility

Alan Carroll:

allows for listening. So how, how does listening affect? Being

Alan Carroll:

a being a great leader to me is connected with listening?

Unknown:

No, that's a fantastic question. And, you know, I'm I'm

Unknown:

a naturally analytical thinker. So every time I'm making a

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point, I will probably reference a statistic because it kind of

Unknown:

drives the point home in my personality. But, you know, 90%

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of people listen, to wait our turn to talk. 10% of people

Unknown:

actually listen effectively. And obviously, I've met you for the

Unknown:

first time I'm doing my second podcast interview ever. Right? I

Unknown:

have to listen intently to know and hear and understand the most

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part, I heard your question. Did I understand your question?

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Right? Do I then create the time regardless of what amount of

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silence gap there is, it shouldn't matter, that

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uncomfortableness of silence is actually a good thing. Because

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if your brain doesn't work to the answer as necessarily fast

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as someone else in the room who may or may not, again, back to

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mindfulness and self awareness, that's not a flaw. That's not a

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crush. That's not a weakness. I'm going to take the time to

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reflect on your question. If I don't understand your question,

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I'm then going to ask you to clarify it. Number one, right.

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If I do understand it before he answer, I'm still gonna get in

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the step with you. Right, and give you a listening statement

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to confirm. Before I answer, I heard you properly.

Alan Carroll:

That's excellent. Excellent. That's, that's shows

Unknown:

that I'm actually effectively listening and not

Unknown:

just waiting for the pause, to jump in in that state.

Alan Carroll:

Wow, that's great. The I find that the listening is

Alan Carroll:

a challenge for many people.

Unknown:

And often when you say that, right? As an example, I

Unknown:

always say to people, think about how intensely you listen

Unknown:

to your children, when they come to you in tears or having meat.

Unknown:

It's your natural instinct to watch, you may have still want

Unknown:

to solve, which is wrong. But you still want to understand

Unknown:

because you have an emotional connection to helping that

Unknown:

child. Conversely, how many times do we all have the skill,

Unknown:

right? That we're doing something important, whether

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it's reading, watching a football game, we're in our own

Unknown:

zone, and your wife comes downstairs and starting to talk

Unknown:

to you? Right? And you're like, yeah, oh, yeah, I heard. You're

Unknown:

not You're not You're not paying attention. You don't pause the

Unknown:

game. And now we have the power on PVR. To pause it. That's

Unknown:

right. Yep. And be intentional. And give them your presence.

Unknown:

Right. But because we have such a comfort level, in that

Unknown:

relationship, there's almost an anticipated behavior that your

Unknown:

wife expects, they're going to be like, Yay, I heard. That's

Unknown:

great. All she's looking for is the wave of acknowledgment. But

Unknown:

imagine the impact if you actually pause the game, got up,

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turn towards them, made eye contact and said, Sorry, honey,

Unknown:

I missed that. The game was still on. I wanted to give you

Unknown:

my undivided attention. What is it you want to talk to you about

Unknown:

for five? Right? The impact? So if you naturally know for your

Unknown:

kids, and you naturally don't do it for your wives,

Unknown:

theoretically, right? And you can sure don't get me wrong,

Unknown:

right? But you think about those two extremes. And how you can

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bring presents, which again, relates the mindfulness to the

Unknown:

conversation or one of the things that we teach is how to

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make sure you are acting, mindful and acting reflectively

Unknown:

but also, when you put it into practice, that sounds great in

Unknown:

theory, but that's why you have to continue to use the muscle

Unknown:

and we make our people follow up with us. and give us every

Unknown:

single week we talked to them. Give me the best two examples of

Unknown:

you applying this last week. Fantastic. Now let's talk about

Unknown:

the two times where you didn't think you were as effective. And

Unknown:

you didn't feel like this was unconsciously competent, and you

Unknown:

kind of revert. And what we study is, was it the person you

Unknown:

were dealing with their harder style to understand, was it the

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environment where their external pressures were on the other

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environmental factors, because we've seen and heard every

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single scenario where people still struggled to do it. So

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it's not like an online course you can learn and then go apply

Unknown:

and hope you succeed. The benefit for us is, the more

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sticky it gets for you. The more potential it is they you see

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this awakening or this magic, as we like to call it. And the more

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people you're going to tell about as a positive awakening, I

Unknown:

like to call it crossing the leadership bridge, because

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you're always on a movement journey, and you come to that

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bridge, where you're either going to stand there for the

Unknown:

rest of your career, you're going to dip a toe the wrong way

Unknown:

and drown. Or you're going to take the time and invest in

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yourself to move across that bridge. And sometimes the bridge

Unknown:

can be smooth and slow. Sometimes the bridge can be old

Unknown:

fashioned and rickety. It really you really defined by your

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application and commitment to it, what type of actual bridge

Unknown:

your journey is. And then the beauty of getting out on the

Unknown:

other side of it.

Alan Carroll:

And crossing a bridge that tricky day requires

Alan Carroll:

courage sometimes. So I would imagine courage is part of

Alan Carroll:

leadership. Also.

Unknown:

I was saying that. The number one thing that I look for

Unknown:

in prospective clients, when I'm having a conversation with them,

Unknown:

is not what they can afford. It's not how much time are they

Unknown:

willing or not willing to commit his life is busy. It's really

Unknown:

about courage. I asked, I literally asked them to rate

Unknown:

their courage on a scale of one to 10. And then give me two or

Unknown:

three examples of why they gave me that number, whether that's a

Unknown:

pro or con. Sure. Because I think people have to reflect

Unknown:

inside themselves to say, Do I know I have a need, that's

Unknown:

probably the hardest part of leadership. To be honest, Allen

Unknown:

is people having the self awareness and mindfulness to

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your point to to see all the challenges going on their

Unknown:

workforce, and their workplace results. People, clients,

Unknown:

vendors, union, all the everyday challenges we go through to have

Unknown:

the mindfulness, the self awareness to say, maybe I'm the

Unknown:

problem, maybe I need to go and do better. Versus that person

Unknown:

has got to go on a performance plan that person we need to get

Unknown:

rid of that person we need for probably moved from that seat on

Unknown:

the bus, to that seat on the bus, the last thing people ever

Unknown:

look at is themselves. So to do that, takes courage. And then to

Unknown:

reach out and inquire and find assistance to recognize you can

Unknown:

be better. It's something takes courage. But all the great

Unknown:

leaders I talked to, and all the great leaders I interview

Unknown:

because they're really good case studies, the number one

Unknown:

commonality other than vulnerability. And humbleness is

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they've all had formal leadership training at some

Unknown:

point throughout their careers. And they've all got that thing,

Unknown:

whatever it is to go back and refer to as a refresher, or to

Unknown:

replenish that muscle, if you will, as their as a reminder

Unknown:

when they face more challenging times.

Alan Carroll:

Wow, that is great. What a rich, rich

Alan Carroll:

conversation Barry, we have a couple of more minutes and I

Alan Carroll:

really would like my audience to have an opportunity. If they

Alan Carroll:

wanted to connect with you want to find out more about your

Alan Carroll:

organization, how they how they can do with that. Also, all your

Alan Carroll:

links will be included in the show notes, turn it goes out to

Alan Carroll:

the distributed to the world. They'll be able to see all the

Alan Carroll:

details, but go I'm

Unknown:

sure at the end of the day. We have created and I'm the

Unknown:

founder of a leadership program called the boost Leadership

Unknown:

Program. And unlike fancy acronyms like smart goals, boost

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is exactly what it says it is for boosting leadership

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performance. Whether that's amongst a leadership team, or

Unknown:

whether that's individually one on one. It's a 90 day program

Unknown:

designed to move you to becoming that truly reflective leader

Unknown:

away from a natural instinct of being a reflexive leader to move

Unknown:

you from either level one, two or three If you think about John

Unknown:

Maxwell's five levels of leadership, we take leaders on

Unknown:

that are level one, level two or level three, and we migrate them

Unknown:

within 90 days to level four and level five.

Alan Carroll:

And what would be the website that we could

Alan Carroll:

contact you on?

Unknown:

We are at www Enfield business consultants.com. I'm

Unknown:

originally from Liverpool, England, and I'm a huge global

Unknown:

football supporter, not American football, even though I follow

Unknown:

the NFL. So for lots of you, that would be considered soccer.

Unknown:

And Liverpool is one of the most famous clubs in the world. The

Unknown:

stadium that they play at is called Anfield. And the theory

Unknown:

or the tagline around the Liverpool Football Club is

Unknown:

you'll never walk alone. Our company tagline is you'll never

Unknown:

work alone. We're here to be your partner. We're here to help

Unknown:

you on your journey. And we're here to help you succeed.

Alan Carroll:

Wonderful. Well, Barry, I thoroughly enjoyed the

Alan Carroll:

just a little touch of a deep conversation. And I appreciate

Alan Carroll:

you sharing your wisdom and knowledge on your journey. And

Alan Carroll:

thank you very much and I would like to continue. Can't do it

Alan Carroll:

today. But I'd like to continue our conversation on leadership

Alan Carroll:

because you're a rich resource for our audience.

Unknown:

Anytime. I'd love to join, it's a topic that I have a

Unknown:

great passion for I never get tired of talking about.

Alan Carroll:

Well thank you very much for your time.

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