A thoughtful and fun conversation between Griffin James and Teal Lepley about writing and performing new works, and accessibility practices for theatre-makers and audience members.

Teal Lepley is a writer, playwright, and performer based in Raleigh, NC. An alumna of NC State University, she won the Creative Artist Award in 2016 as a student for her original full length play Of Ghosts and Strangers. In addition to plays, she writes long and short form fiction, as well as articles about local theatre productions and accessibility topics. As a performer, she will next appear in NC State TheatreFEST's production of Assassins in June. 

LINKS:

• Virtual Theatre and its Potential for the Disability Community
• Disability in Theatre
• Assassins Tickets

Transcript

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This is Artist Soapbox through interviews and

original scripted audio fiction.

We deliver stories that speak to your hearts and your minds.

Hello, Artist Soapbox.

My name is Griffin James and I am delighted to share my

conversation with Teal Lepley.

Teal is a writer, playwright and performer based in Raleigh, North Carolina.

An alumni of NC state university.

She won the creative artist award in 2016 as a student for her original full

length play of ghosts and strangers.

In addition to plays, she writes long and short form fiction, as

well as articles about local theater productions and accessibility topics

as a performer, she will next appear in NC state theater Fest production.

Assassins running from June 2nd through June 19th, 2022 tickets on sale.

Now in our episode, we talked about writing new plays, performance

and accessibility in theater.

I hope you find this conversation to be as enlightening as I did.

And if you are interested in learning more about how to make theater more accessible,

you can read Teal's article on virtual.

As well as the book, disability and theater, a practical handbook for

inclusion in the arts, both of which are discussed in today's episode and both

of which are linked in the description.

And thank you all for your time, whether you are making dinner

at home on your morning commute, or listening for the first time.

Welcome and thank you.

Hello, Teal.

Thank you so much for joining me on Artist Soapbox.

It is an absolute pleasure to have you here.

Thanks.

Happy to

be

here.

So to catch everyone up to speed in case they have not listened to

my previous episode with Lormarev Jones, I am not Tamara KIssane.

I am a guest host and I will be specifically discussing.

People who create original work within theater.

And today I'm joined by Teal Lepley, who is a writer,

performer, and overall bad-ass.

Thank you for that.

I guess

I'll accept it.

Teal.

Just tell me a little bit about your process.

What is your writing process like when you first get an idea

and how you see it through?

So I write in a variety of different formats, everything

from short stories to longer fiction to plays of various lengths.

So I guess the first thing.

After I get an idea.

Sometimes it's very specific and I know right away, this is an idea that I

want to make a play a lot of the time.

It's not so clear.

I think one of the best pieces of advice, or I guess the best

explanation of that thought process, there goes to playwright and Finley,

who I recently took a class from.

And as he explained it, when you have an idea, you need to think about the

canvas that you're working on artists.

When they have a different canvas, he requires different mediums.

It's different sizes.

So sometimes if you're specifically working on a 10 minute play,

for example, you have to think about what fits on that canvas.

Versus when you start off with an idea, a specific story idea, it

then becomes a matter of what size canvas and what medium does he want.

Sometimes thinking about it becomes very clear.

I really enjoy writing science fiction and fantasy.

Which unfortunately don't often lend themselves well to the stage.

So that often gets relegated to my fiction writing.

However, sometimes it does require more thought.

And so I guess it just depends on the idea and what it wants to be as well as.

As a script.

Thank you.

That was a very beautiful answer.

I, I like the idea of a canvas.

Um, I was also in a class with Ian once upon a time.

Maybe where there too?

I don't know.

So long ago last month.

Yeah.

Spoiler alert to our viewers, we took the class together, but no,

I think that's definitely a very.

Very good idea to start with.

And once you choose your media and then you have this story, how

do you typically get it written?

Do you self-imposed deadlines as you're writing or do you

prefer a more organic approach?

It

kind of depends.

Self-imposed deadlines don't really work well for me, because I could tell

myself, okay, this needs to be done, or I need to have this much written by

Friday, but there's always a little voice in the back of my head, like, oh yeah.

Or what?

So even if I tell myself, well, then you'll get a reward of a cookie.

My brain just says, well, why can't I just have the cookie nap?

So self-imposed deadlines don't really work well, a lot of the time

it just becomes an organic process.

Letting myself write at my own pace when I have the energy for it, but

I find actual hard deadlines are the best way to make me write and stop

dithering and overthinking things.

Backstory for our listeners.

I'm an alum of NC state and it's university theater.

So NC state through their department of arts, NC state has an award

called the creative artist award in three different areas.

Theater dance and music students submit their own original work for

consideration for this work for theater.

That means an original script when I was a junior.

Oh goodness.

Back in 20 15, 20 16, I think.

Yeah.

I was an English major at NC state, but I was involved in theater all four years

and I had several friends in theater.

As people were advertising the creative artist award had several friends were

like, you are the fiction writer.

Why don't you write a play?

I said, I've never written a play before.

I wouldn't know how to do.

And as time went on more and more people ganged up on me and tried to bully me

into doing it eventually I agreed.

This took me a little while, but eventually I took one of the short

stories that I'd written for a fiction writing class and use that as think

the second scene for the play that I ended up writing and submitting,

which was called ghosts and strangers, probably talk about that more later

on, but, um, so Of Ghosts and Strangers

was submitted and actually ended up, ended up winning much to my surprise.

I had forgotten about it and the fact that I'd submitted it.

So I was very confused when it was announced that it had won, but

after the award, the winning play is given a stage reading in the

fall and then a full, I guess, not so much full production anymore.

More of a workshop production in the spring, I suppose.

Um, so for me, I ended up going through a lot of revisions

during that one school year.

I think I ended up rewriting it once before the stage reading once during

that week long rehearsal process.

And I guess it was before the staged reading.

And then I think I must have rewritten it two or three times before

the full production in the fall.

And for me what got me going and kept me going with that process was the simple

fact of those were hard deadlines.

I needed to have it revised before I handed it over to students to read, I

needed to have certain obvious problems fixed before they read it before.

And then for the spring production director, Mia self was an absolute

blessing for that entire process.

She was just delightful the entire time and really helped me develop the

play and the story and the characters.

She directed the production.

It was just so wonderful about making sure that it was true to my own vision, which

was for me as a, playwright's such a gift.

I know there's a lot of playwrights out there who aren't as lucky.

So for me, because I had that support, I would have so many conversations with Mia.

Oh, wouldn't it be interesting of this?

Oh, we could try this and this.

Oh, what if this character ended up doing this?

And so I just ended up constantly having new ideas.

When you've scenes and new characters and revisions, I went through so many

different script versions before we finally got to the production, but

what pushed me to get through some different versions was simple fact.

I needed to have it.

I needed to turn this in.

Mia needs it by Friday.

That's that I think was the time in my life that I wrote the most.

It was absolutely wonderful.

And afterwards, after the production for awhile, I didn't quite,

I couldn't let the script go.

And so I would have friends over for an informal reading

just to hear their opinions.

And again, that knowledge of, well, they're going to be here at my house.

You know, on Friday.

So I guess it needs to be done by them.

Huh?

Deadlines are magical for productivity.

They truly are.

It was Mike Wiley who once said to me, the quickest way

to get work done is to book it.

It's so true though, because the moment it's going to be available for public

consumption, there is a new motivation.

There is this fire under your ass.

What I was hearing, as you were speaking was just this idea of

external support guiding you through the writing in the revision process.

And I, I definitely agree with that and feel like that is something

practical writers can take away is just having external support

to help streamline that process.

Because I, I work in a similar fashion.

I cannot work on self-imposed deadlines.

I can set them.

I will look at them and I will think, well, who the heck is

he to set this deadline for me?

I

think in the playwriting class we took with Ian Finley.

He said that.

One of the motivations he used to get scripts done was he told his

brother, if I don't have the script done by this and this day, I'm

going to pay you a hundred dollars.

And so his brother had never tried so hard to distract them and get them to hang out.

But he was also really great motivation.

Understandably, you don't want to pay his brother a hundred bucks

works.

I'm going to have to steal that idea.

I definitely agree with the idea that it's easier to abide by a deadline when

it feels like it was never your idea.

But as you had mentioned, you you've worked on an

original show as a playwright.

But in addition, you are a performer and you were recently involved in Gavin.

Bell's original play, a case of salt performed at NC state university theater.

So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about your experiences

working on original theater as both the person who writes the words and the

vessel that speaks them into existence, what was it like being on both ends of.

I have to say it was really delightful to be asked to

come back as a guest artist for that recent production of a case of salt.

It felt like coming full circle because I had gotten to go through

that process as the playwright.

And now I got to be there as an actor supporting another playwright.

So it was just such, such an amazing experience on both ends

my experience as the playwright.

I think for me that, because that was the first play I'd ever written much less had

performed in front of other human beings.

I was really afraid to let it go.

And so I was there probably unwisely for just about every

single rehearsal for my show.

I didn't always speak a lot, but I was there and listening and on one hand,

hearing it over and over was very helpful.

Yeah.

Even as the actors improved and found a better rhythm, I could

better pick out the little hiccup.

Or where the rhythm can be better or where a scene could be clearer.

However, that kind of focus wasn't necessarily the best approach.

In some ways.

I think I focused so long on the play that I got a little caught up in it.

I couldn't, I couldn't see the forest for the trees.

And so taking some time away from it afterwards.

Definitely the right choice.

However, I got to give it up for Gavin bell because she was there for, I think

two, maybe three rehearsals in the three weeks of rehearsals that we had.

I had a lot of respect for her restraint there.

I wish I'd had a little more of it myself, but it was so strange

and wonderful to be able to.

Act in a piece and have the playwright right there.

It was very interesting too, because I mean, having the playwright

right there at the impulses to ask questions and on one respect, that's

very helpful to the playwright.

I know for me, I had people ask, well, Hey, what's this character's

background or, oh, they mentioned this.

And it made me think about things that I had never considered before.

I'm like, oh, that's right.

I do need to give this character more of a backstory.

Or why is this character even in this scene, why did they show up?

And so having them ask those questions.

Was incredibly helpful.

On the other hand, as an actor, you know, you ask somebody these questions and

Gavin, in some cases, it's kind of funny.

She was like, that's a good question.

What's your answer?

I'll tell you mine.

After the production, I want you to come up with your own.

I'm like, oh gosh.

Interesting.

Gavin Bell's A Case of Salt was in some ways a murder mystery.

It was about a group of theater students putting on a murder, mystery play.

And so the structure was it alternating between scenes of the students in

rehearsals, hanging out that sort of thing, and then jumping back and forth

between the scenes from their play either in rehearsals or in production.

And so it was a very interesting balance that she.

Within the world of the play, the show that the students were

performing was student written.

They had written it in themselves.

And so in some ways it was allowed to be strange and sometimes trophy.

And I remember we had so many questions about some of the vague

references because we, as the audience never get to see their entire.

And so some of the questions we were left with were so funny, how on earth could

stealing a garden gnome lead to a murder?

We don't know, but it was fun to ask Gavin and Gavin never

quite gave us an entire answer.

So we had so much fun trying to figure it out first.

So.

So in some ways, having Gavin there to answer questions was very helpful

because we could also ask, Hey, the wording here is a little funny.

It makes me think this, but I'm not sure if that was your intention.

And so in some ways the questions that we asked could be very helpful for her.

I know she took notes for later revisions.

I remember having one particular conversation.

So in case of salt is.

Thematically, very focused on disabilities, specifically

disability in theater, two of the characters in the show are disabled.

One of them is hard of hearing and the other uses a cane.

I played the character with a cane because.

I myself am a disabled actor who sometimes uses a cane.

And I know Gavin is very adamant about having actors

who were disabled themselves.

I thought was absolutely fantastic effort.

I have never gotten to play a character who was written to be disabled before.

So that was just a fantastic experience.

But within the show, they do discuss disability quite a bit.

And I remember.

Before I was even cast in the show, actually, a friend who might be

the guest host in this episode.

Griffin connected me with Gavin because she had already, already

written a character who uses a cane into her show, but Griffin thought,

Hey, maybe you would want to talk to someone who does use a cane.

And so we had a lovely zoom call.

Talking about our different perspectives on having a disability because Gavin,

herself is hard of hearing as well.

So she could base the character of Joey.

Who's hard of hearing on a lot of her experiences, but she didn't have

that perspective of someone who uses a cane who has a visible disability.

And so we had a lot of really lovely conversations about that.

And some of those continued, even after I was cast, I remember she

sent in some revisions shortly into the rehearsal process.

There were very big, but there were a couple of little line edits.

And I remember talking to her about one.

It was in a conversation about casting disabled actors in disabled roles and

I remember discussing the wording of it and some of the implications, and

it was so fantastic to be able to have that discussion with the playwright

and getting some input on it versus

accepting the lines as they are with no flexibility.

I really love that.

And I I'm so glad that you and Gavin were able to be connected.

Patrick Torres of Raleigh little theater had said something very, very beautiful.

I felt in regards to being in communication with the communities,

when you are making art, that involves them, it was specifically

phrased with us, not about us.

That is absolutely

perfect.

And I really love the idea of incorporating the people involved

into the conversation rather than just letting it be about them.

And I'm really glad that Gavin was able to incorporate that into her process.

Yeah, that was something I really loved about case of salt,

because not only did you have disabled characters and disabled actors,

you had a disabled playwright.

And so I thought it made for just some very lovely, genuine conversations.

Most people would never have thought about.

So in addition to starring and Gavin bells play as a

cane user, you have also written an article on virtual theater and its

relationship with the industry itself, how it helps the, how it helps theater

become more accessible and creates new opportunities for the disabled community.

I'm wondering if you could briefly talk about your experiences as a disabled

performer.

So I, in addition to.

Being an actor and playwright.

I'm also a writer for a website called accessibility.com, which

is meant to be a resource about accessibility and disability topics,

everything from technological best practices to human issues.

And at one point I asked if I could write an article specifically about

virtual theater, because during the pandemic, I was involved in a

lot of virtual theater productions.

I mean, those were the only ones that were happening at the time.

But for me as a disabled actor, it was, it was such a gift.

I mean, I missed having a live audience and being on stage, but

the experience was just fantastic.

Made me think about myself as a disabled after very differently because with

zoom productions and zoom rehearsals, it was everything just became easier.

I didn't have to worry about transportation, getting

ready, packing my bags.

I didn't have to worry about, are my joints going to start hurting?

Am I going to need to sit down more for rehearsals?

Am I going to have more problems getting around?

Is it going to affect my focus?

I could just sit at home in one spot, not really moving much.

And it was such a relief physically that I'd never considered it before.

But then in addition to doing virtual theater, being an audience.

To virtual theater was just as fantastic for me as a disabled audience member.

There were so many more accommodations that are available to virtual theater that

I'd never considered for live theater, or perhaps had even seen very often

when you're doing a virtual production.

It's so much easier to add open captioning to add audio description.

So so much easier for people with visual impairments or those were deaf or hard

of hearing to access and enjoy shows.

Not only that, but for me, I didn't have to worry if, if I was feeling

up for leaving the house, you know, how many of us have made plans to go

see a show or a movie or see friends.

And then at the end of the day, I don't want to leave the house.

I don't want to put on real clothes.

And so to be able to enjoy life theater, just from the comfort

of your living room couch.

It was just fantastic.

And I don't think that's exclusive to those disabled community obviously,

but I think moving forward, there's a lot to learn from the adaptations we

had to make while doing virtual theater and as live theater comes back, there's

already changes that I've noticed that I'm really hoping are expanded

upon and become more common moving.

One thing that I've noticed with NC state's productions recently.

And they're just on my mind because I just saw one recently SpongeBob the musical.

But this year as they start having life productions, again,

they have had live captions.

Built into the production via projections.

And it was just not questioned.

It was always there, which is, I think initially developed because

their first couple productions, the performers were in masks.

And so are their concerns.

Like you can't see as much of their face.

You can't read their lips.

They might not be able to project.

So the captions made sense, but now as they move forward with

productions, with actors who are not masked, they've retained it.

And it's just so lovely to see because with the right design,

they don't have to be distracting, but they can be there if you need.

Another thing that I've seen is virtual playbills, which I don't remember

seeing too often beforehand, but I mean, on one hand, you, you get less

risk of passing on COVID-19 of course.

And you've also got less waste.

You don't have as much paper products just sitting around, but you also

have a lot more accessibility options.

People who are visually impaired.

It's so much easier to get larger text if they need it.

Do you screen readers if they need it?

It's also easier to alt text descriptions for photos and images,

and then you can also add other great accessibility options, such as plot

descriptions and content warnings.

So many more options, and it becomes so much easier to, and I think more

convenient when you don't have to worry about getting them printed and making sure

they're passed out around the theater.

So I really hope we see more virtual playbills moving forward.

I'm really glad you brought that up.

The plot description is something I had not even thought about

before you brought it up.

Just now

it was something I hadn't considered, but doing my own personal

research is this has become a new passion of mine and I'm still learning

more myself, but for people with perhaps autism or other neurological.

Intellectual disabilities or even just anxiety, sometimes just going

in knowing exactly what you're going to see, makes it a little

less stressful or a little easier.

You don't have to worry.

Am I missing something what's coming next?

Do you get to just sit and enjoy the performance?

So it's a little less

stress.

One

thing that also happened as live theater returned, some theaters

would allow you to stream on demand the recording of their performances,

which was really delightful to me.

You still had actors on a stage, but you didn't have to be there in person.

And again, with the virtual performances, it's a lot of the same advantages

you can add open captioning, audio description, ASL interpretation.

So many of these things become a lot easier to add to a recording,

but aside from accessibility, It's also just a great idea.

Like I said, how many of us make plans to go out and then you get home and

you're like, I don't want to leave.

Or maybe it's raining, pouring outside and you don't want to drive,

or maybe you're not feeling well.

Just want to stay home.

It's so fantastic to have the option, just pay about the ticket price and

just be able to watch it on demand from home for a 24 hour window.

Maybe I think it's a great option for a theater to increase their revenue as well.

I'd really like to see more of that moving

forward.

I also think about how that could be a really great opportunity for.

Maybe family who live out of state to support the work of family or friends

who live long distances, and they're unable to make it that distance.

That's a great point.

I hadn't considered

that.

Or even, or even if you have a family member who might be bedridden or cannot

leave the house due to medical conditions, or even, if they just don't feel like.

But even if they are confined to their house, for any reason, it, it

creates this opportunity for them to connect with someone they know, and to

support the work of someone they love.

And you make a great point for folks with

mobility based disabilities.

It removes so many barriers because let me tell you as someone with a physical

illness, Going out, it can be such a pain, especially to a new place.

You have to think more carefully about transportation.

Where are they accessible?

Parking spots.

Are there stairs?

Where's the ramp?

Is it going to be all the way around on the backside of the building?

Spoiler alert too often, they are, but then there's the

inside of the theater as well.

Are you going to be able to maneuver easily to your seat?

Are you going to have to navigate crowds?

What about the bathrooms?

Are they a mile away going out could be such a hassle, but if you're just

allowed to stream it at home, so many of those barriers and problems just

go away or for those with sensory disabilities or sensory sensitivities,

Ooh, that's a tongue twister.

Being able to watch a performance in a controlled environment

can be absolutely fantastic.

You don't have to worry about noises in the audience.

Or even if you're more sensitive to things like the sound of gunshots or

perhaps fog machines being used, it's a great way to remove those concerns

along those lines.

I don't know about you, but in the summer of 2020, and

during like the height of the black lives matter movement, I don't know

about you, but I remember seeing a lot of theater post diversity statements

and accessibility statements.

And I just, I remember seeing a lot of theaters post these statements

saying, yes, we aim to be diverse and we want to be more accessible.

So my question for you is, is there anything that you've not talked about

already that you wish theaters would know, or just a practical things that

they can incorporate into their work now, that way they can follow through on.

According

to the CDC.

One in four, us adults live with a disability that makes it the

largest minority group in America.

That has a huge portion of the population and the most common disability type, which

is mobility affects one in seven adults.

Now, as someone who is included in that statistic, having a mobility

disability causes me so much anxiety.

When it comes to performing, especially when it comes to auditions.

As I mentioned, I don't use a cane all the time.

I have what's called a dynamic disability.

So the severity and its effects are different every day.

Sometimes my.

Are more cooperative than others.

However, that can also make performing very difficult to plan ahead for

maybe I'm, I've been feeling good lately when I go in for an audition,

but there's always going to be that anxiety in the back of my head.

Wondering.

What if that changes mid rehearsal, what if I suddenly do need to use my cane?

How is that going to affect my ability to do the blocking?

What if I was supposed to do fight choreography that could change so

much of the blocking could change, but also there's always that fear.

Would the director be okay with it?

Would they ask me to step aside?

It's a huge source of anxiety.

For me.

And I can't imagine how many performers there are out there who

maybe their health has gotten worse.

Maybe they're not as mobile as they've used to be.

And they've stepped aside and they've stepped away from performing.

I can't imagine doing that, but I'm always afraid what if that does happen?

And I always feel.

What if I do audition with a cane, no one would say that's the reason I didn't

get cast, but I imagine there's plenty of directors who would wonder about the

practicality of casting, a disabled actor.

And I think it's not as much of a risk as a lot of people might assume

casting disabled actors doesn't have to be a challenge as long as you're

willing to be a creative problem solver.

One great resource that I would highly recommend is this

fantastic book called disability.

And.

At practical manual for inclusion in the arts, by Stephanie Barton Farkas.

If I could, I would mail a copy of this book to every director

that I could, because as it said, it's a practical manual.

It goes through auditions, rehearsals, blocking performances.

Publicity.

It goes through everything, talking about different disabilities and

different ways to adapt and accommodate.

And sometimes the accommodations that you make can be so interesting

and add new layers and add new nuance to shows and character.

They can add for folks with mobility aids, that can be such a fun

challenge for a costume designer.

There's so many different ways to incorporate these disabilities

and these actors into a show.

You don't just have to cast them when you have a disabled character.

Although when you do have a disabled character, I do believe

you should at least seek out disabled actors for those roles.

Let's be honest.

Griffin, can you think of how many characters with disabilities

can you think of in theater,

Julia from Fefu and her Friends, I'm going to feel very bad

if I misremembered the character name.

Cause I was in the show, but if I remember correctly, Julia,

from Fefu and her Friends.

Is wheelchair bound,

actually, that's one thing.

And you can cut this out if you want, but wheelchair bound.

Isn't a great way to phrase it.

Wheelchair user.

Okay.

Thank you.

I did not know that.

Yeah, no worries.

And honestly, I kind of don't want to cut that out because I

think more people should know.

I definitely did not.

There's a lot of language that people don't think

about that they use every day.

One thing I learned recently was the word handicapped.

It goes back to a phrase cap in hand, meaning people who have disabilities,

who are standing out on the street corner, begging, which has such

a terrible connotation, but we say it all the time talking about

handicap spots and all, someone who uses an accessible parking spot.

It's something.

I still find myself having to stop and correct myself about there's so many

phrases that we just don't think about.

Can you think of any other characters with disabilities and

theater?

Ooh, I don't remember his name, but the main character.

The curious incident of the dog in the nighttime, I'm

blanking on his name as well.

That is a very popular one.

Another common one.

When it comes to physical disability is the glass menagerie.

Laura,

who has to be honest.

I don't know.

I don't know that play I'm ignorant.

That's fair.

It's considered a classic.

And from what I remember, Laura has one.

And is like, quote unquote, emotionally fragile, I think is the phrasing they

use, which isn't really a great phrase or definition, but that is when it

comes to disability representation.

I do take a lot of issues with the way the character is written.

However, I have never once seen a production or heard of a production

in in the area and I might be wrong.

I might be wrong, but as far as I know, I haven't heard of any

productions in the area where Laura is played by a disabled actor for one

who uses a mobility aid daily life, which I think is a huge opportunity.

There's not.

Characters with disabilities, I guess, in terms of Shakespeare, there's Richard,

the third, who, I don't think it's very specific about his disability.

From what I remember, it's things like the phrase deformed

or some comparison to a spider.

There's not great descriptions of him, but that is a character with disability.

However, these are just a few examples, but there's not a whole lot.

And if you go in.

With a mentality of, I need a disabled character in order

to cast a disabled actor.

You're really missing out on a lot of fantastic actors out there.

And you know, something else I thought of, as you were talking

about, that is the idea of none of us are free until all of us are.

And I think about how, how a lot of the practices that would be

beneficial for the disabled community in theater, what benefits them

will benefit everyone at large.

And I, and I think that's something I wish more theaters would know and would

acknowledge, for example, like having a break system put in place, I'm personally

fond of the equity break system.

But I mean, I know, I know some directors who love to power through.

And forget that people get tired and need breaks.

Oh yeah.

Specifically me.

I want to break,

but allowing, but allowing breaks, and this is just a small example, but allowing

breaks for people to just take a moment of rest before jumping back into the work

will not only be beneficial for disabled actors who might just need that moment,

but it will be beneficial for everyone to just take that moment of pause.

But one other thing that I've seen recently is some productions have

been having zoom rehearsals early on in the rehearsal process, especially for like

table work or just line throughs, which are great for the disabled community.

You know, it's less physically taxing.

You don't have to worry about transportation, but also it's a lot

more convenient just for everybody, you know, for one, you get to save

on gas, which is kind of important, but it's also convenient for.

What if your car breaks down, what if, what if you're a parent with a

child there's so many great convenient options there too, but when it comes

to accommodations and these adjustments that you could make specifically for

people with disabilities, another thing to keep in mind, like I said,

the disabled community is the largest minority group in America, and it

is the only one that any person.

Could join at any time, you may not be born with a disability, but anyone could

gain one in any time in their life.

And eventually if you live long enough, you will.

And so by going ahead and helping disabled community, you might be

benefiting yourself in the future, which I don't think is something

most people consider for myself.

My health problems didn't crop up.

Well, they didn't crop up severely until I was about 23.

And I've never considered before that, that I would be disabled, you

know, not until I was in my sixties, seventies, something like that.

And yet, here I am.

Now, how old am I?

27.

I think that's just an interesting perspective that not a lot of people have.

But it's something to keep in mind, especially when you mentioned,

oh, what was that phrase you just

used?

None of us are free until all of us are free.

Exactly.

Wow.

I've been on my soapbox,

huh?

Soapbox.

Hence the name Artist Soapbox welcome to the pod.

Well, I guess it's appropriate

then to go back to a case of salt, where there any

specific practices set up in place?

Rehearsals that made it more accessible, friendly that you would like to point

out for others to possibly learn from.

So a case of salt was directed by Danica Janell Jackson,

and I cannot praise this woman enough.

I was, I'm not going to lie very anxious going into rehearsals, even though I

was playing a character with a cane.

And so obviously I'd be able to use my cane, the entire rehearsal process.

I was very anxious and I went in the first rehearsal, like having prepared

a little speech about here is what you need to know about my health.

Here are the certain accommodations I'll need.

Here are things you need to know.

I was ready to give a CliffsNotes version, but I went in and I don't

think I said any of it because Danica was already so prepared.

And so seamlessly accounted for everything.

I think we were halfway through the blocking process when she

and I were talking about, wait, are you sitting in the scene?

Am I standing?

And she said, oh no, you were sitting in the, no, you're

standing in the last scene.

So you're sitting in this one.

I tried to scatter it.

So every time you're in the scene standing up for most of it, you're

sitting down in the next one so it's not too hard on your joints.

And I was flabbergasted because I'd never mentioned that, but

she went ahead and thought of it and incorporated it so smoothly.

Hadn't even consciously registered.

She made it so simple and so easy.

It was fantastic.

And I know we made a lot of scene transitions, moving furniture, and

a couple of times I offered to help.

Oh, I can move this chair.

And every time she would always ask, are you sure?

Or are you just trying to be helpful?

What's going to be easiest for you.

And she just made it.

She just made me so comfortable enough.

It wasn't, there was no judgment, but there was always just the concern

for me and my health and safety.

And so I think it makes everyone else, a little more comfortable speaking up about

their own limitations or comfort levels.

You know, someone saying like, Hey, I'm having trouble moving these two chairs.

They're a little heavy.

And so maybe being able to make adjustments there.

And part of it, I think is becoming.

You were still coming out of the pandemic, but I remember everyone

was so focused on their health.

No one was afraid to speak up.

Like an email is like, Hey, I'm not feeling well.

I'm going to sit out of this rehearsal or, Hey, I'm exhausted.

I need a little break.

Yeah, of course.

Take a break.

You have to take care of yourself, which is such a great mindset

because I think pre pandemic.

Most people always have that perspective of, no, I need to keep going.

I just need to push through.

And even in theater, you know, it was easy to think.

We don't have a lot of rehearsals.

I don't want to miss my blocking, but the pandemic really forced a lot

of us to step back and reevaluate the importance of our health.

And so that followed through during rehearsals for a case of salt

and it made for some really great accommodations being incorporated in it.

Case of Salt was performed in Thompson hall, in the studio theater, which is

definitely the smaller theater in the building and the wings in the theater.

Very shallow.

There's not a whole lot of space to move around in there, especially

when you have a cast of, oh, I think it was eight people.

And especially on the occasions where most of them ended up

on the same side of the stage.

And you had different set pieces in furniture pieces in the wings as well.

At one point in rehearsals there was one day where the wings were so

cramped that I had issues getting through beyond stage on my queue.

And I remember stopping and asking Danica and ours at our stage manager.

Hey, can we take a moment

to figure out what to do with the wings, because everything gets just

thrown in there wherever it'll fit, but it makes it very difficult to

maneuver, especially when you need a little extra space for a cane.

And so I remember we paused the rehearsal.

We figured out where to put all of the desks, all the chairs, the table, all

of that, where it would fit comfortably.

So we still had plenty of space to maneuver.

I know it made it very.

Much easier for me, but it made it in the long run, much easier for everybody else

to get around backstage, without bumping into things or knocking something over it.

It was just a really great moment to be able to speak up and have my voice.

I, I really love that.

And I love that they, they were in communication with you throughout

the process to really ensure that it was working for everyone.

Um,

I know for me personally, there's a phrase I've come across

called the intimacy of disability is when you have a disability, you can

often feel the pressure of everybody kind of wants to know your business.

I know I've had countless strangers ask me what's with the cane.

Would you do, why are you using that?

Even mind you even just strangers walking around target would ask

me, it drove me nuts that everybody felt entitled to my medical

history as if it was public domain.

When you have a disability, especially one that affects you

physically, it can be difficult because of that pressure to disclose.

Information, even when it is needed.

And so it can be hard to accept new people into that circle of people that

you can just speak about it freely with.

I know I'm very hesitant to give details about my disability to

strangers and even acquaintance.

But Danica and the crew and the cast made it so comfortable.

We could have conversations so easily and it was so simple to speak up and

explain, oh, well, I can't really do this, or I'm having issues here, or it might

be easier if we tried something else.

And so just to have that freedom and trust there, Absolutely fantastic.

I'm sure we could talk about this endlessly and I hope that

more people continue to have these conversations within the industry

so that we can really hold ourselves accountable to everything that we,

we say when we say that we want to be more accessible and more diverse.

And I want to thank you for speaking and for sharing.

So honestly, No,

thank you for the opportunity.

It, like I said, it's not something that a lot of people think about.

And while theater is very often a very progressive community, I do

think disability is one area that it very often falls behind on.

I do think that the pandemic with its focus on public health, I do think we have

made good progress here because of it.

And now I think it's a matter of remembering the discoveries and.

Adaptations that we made and bringing them forward and building upon them.

So I really look forward to seeing how theater, how live

theater adapts as we move forward.

I could not agree more and I cannot think of a

better place to end than on that.

So, thank you again to you all for taking the time to do this.

I appreciate you so much.

And is there anything you want to plug?

Yeah, so because NC state just can't get rid of me despite

having graduated about five years ago.

I think my next project that I'll be working on is NC state's theater

fest production of Assassins.

So definitely looking forward to working on that.

And I definitely

look forward to all of you and lovely people, hopefully coming to see it to,

yeah.

Thank you so much.

And the assassins will run from June 2nd to June 19th.

Oh, that's important

information.

Yes.

I, I not surprised, but I might be stage managing it.

So, um, do your patrons come see us?

Come and support us.

If you don't you're homophobic abelist.

I don't make the rules.

I just follow them.

This is

how we get canceled.

Jesus.

Established in 2017 Artist Soapbox is a podcast production

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