Artwork for podcast Artist Soapbox * Audio fiction + Creative Process
157: Creating New and Accessible Theatre with Teal Lepley, performer and playwright
Episode 15730th May 2022 • Artist Soapbox * Audio fiction + Creative Process • Tamara Kissane
00:00:00 00:48:33

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A thoughtful and fun conversation between Griffin James and Teal Lepley about writing and performing new works, and accessibility practices for theatre-makers and audience members.

Teal Lepley is a writer, playwright, and performer based in Raleigh, NC. An alumna of NC State University, she won the Creative Artist Award in 2016 as a student for her original full length play Of Ghosts and Strangers. In addition to plays, she writes long and short form fiction, as well as articles about local theatre productions and accessibility topics. As a performer, she will next appear in NC State TheatreFEST's production of Assassins in June. 

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Transcripts

Tamara Kissane:

This is Artist Soapbox through interviews and

Tamara Kissane:

original scripted audio fiction.

Tamara Kissane:

We deliver stories that speak to your hearts and your minds.

Griffin James:

Hello, Artist Soapbox.

Griffin James:

My name is Griffin James and I am delighted to share my

Griffin James:

conversation with Teal Lepley.

Griffin James:

Teal is a writer, playwright and performer based in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Griffin James:

An alumni of NC state university.

Griffin James:

She won the creative artist award in 2016 as a student for her original full

Griffin James:

length play of ghosts and strangers.

Griffin James:

In addition to plays, she writes long and short form fiction, as

Griffin James:

well as articles about local theater productions and accessibility topics

Griffin James:

as a performer, she will next appear in NC state theater Fest production.

Griffin James:

Assassins running from June 2nd through June 19th, 2022 tickets on sale.

Griffin James:

Now in our episode, we talked about writing new plays, performance

Griffin James:

and accessibility in theater.

Griffin James:

I hope you find this conversation to be as enlightening as I did.

Griffin James:

And if you are interested in learning more about how to make theater more accessible,

Griffin James:

you can read Teal's article on virtual.

Griffin James:

As well as the book, disability and theater, a practical handbook for

Griffin James:

inclusion in the arts, both of which are discussed in today's episode and both

Griffin James:

of which are linked in the description.

Griffin James:

And thank you all for your time, whether you are making dinner

Griffin James:

at home on your morning commute, or listening for the first time.

Griffin James:

Welcome and thank you.

Griffin James:

Hello, Teal.

Griffin James:

Thank you so much for joining me on Artist Soapbox.

Griffin James:

It is an absolute pleasure to have you here.

Teal Lepley:

Thanks.

Teal Lepley:

Happy to

Teal Lepley:

be

Griffin James:

here.

Griffin James:

So to catch everyone up to speed in case they have not listened to

Griffin James:

my previous episode with Lormarev Jones, I am not Tamara KIssane.

Griffin James:

I am a guest host and I will be specifically discussing.

Griffin James:

People who create original work within theater.

Griffin James:

And today I'm joined by Teal Lepley, who is a writer,

Griffin James:

performer, and overall bad-ass.

Teal Lepley:

Thank you for that.

Teal Lepley:

I guess

Griffin James:

I'll accept it.

Griffin James:

Teal.

Griffin James:

Just tell me a little bit about your process.

Griffin James:

What is your writing process like when you first get an idea

Griffin James:

and how you see it through?

Teal Lepley:

So I write in a variety of different formats, everything

Teal Lepley:

from short stories to longer fiction to plays of various lengths.

Teal Lepley:

So I guess the first thing.

Teal Lepley:

After I get an idea.

Teal Lepley:

Sometimes it's very specific and I know right away, this is an idea that I

Teal Lepley:

want to make a play a lot of the time.

Teal Lepley:

It's not so clear.

Teal Lepley:

I think one of the best pieces of advice, or I guess the best

Teal Lepley:

explanation of that thought process, there goes to playwright and Finley,

Teal Lepley:

who I recently took a class from.

Teal Lepley:

And as he explained it, when you have an idea, you need to think about the

Teal Lepley:

canvas that you're working on artists.

Teal Lepley:

When they have a different canvas, he requires different mediums.

Teal Lepley:

It's different sizes.

Teal Lepley:

So sometimes if you're specifically working on a 10 minute play,

Teal Lepley:

for example, you have to think about what fits on that canvas.

Teal Lepley:

Versus when you start off with an idea, a specific story idea, it

Teal Lepley:

then becomes a matter of what size canvas and what medium does he want.

Teal Lepley:

Sometimes thinking about it becomes very clear.

Teal Lepley:

I really enjoy writing science fiction and fantasy.

Teal Lepley:

Which unfortunately don't often lend themselves well to the stage.

Teal Lepley:

So that often gets relegated to my fiction writing.

Teal Lepley:

However, sometimes it does require more thought.

Teal Lepley:

And so I guess it just depends on the idea and what it wants to be as well as.

Teal Lepley:

As a script.

Griffin James:

Thank you.

Griffin James:

That was a very beautiful answer.

Griffin James:

I, I like the idea of a canvas.

Griffin James:

Um, I was also in a class with Ian once upon a time.

Griffin James:

Maybe where there too?

Griffin James:

I don't know.

Griffin James:

So long ago last month.

Griffin James:

Yeah.

Griffin James:

Spoiler alert to our viewers, we took the class together, but no,

Griffin James:

I think that's definitely a very.

Griffin James:

Very good idea to start with.

Griffin James:

And once you choose your media and then you have this story, how

Griffin James:

do you typically get it written?

Griffin James:

Do you self-imposed deadlines as you're writing or do you

Griffin James:

prefer a more organic approach?

Griffin James:

It

Teal Lepley:

kind of depends.

Teal Lepley:

Self-imposed deadlines don't really work well for me, because I could tell

Teal Lepley:

myself, okay, this needs to be done, or I need to have this much written by

Teal Lepley:

Friday, but there's always a little voice in the back of my head, like, oh yeah.

Teal Lepley:

Or what?

Teal Lepley:

So even if I tell myself, well, then you'll get a reward of a cookie.

Teal Lepley:

My brain just says, well, why can't I just have the cookie nap?

Teal Lepley:

So self-imposed deadlines don't really work well, a lot of the time

Teal Lepley:

it just becomes an organic process.

Teal Lepley:

Letting myself write at my own pace when I have the energy for it, but

Teal Lepley:

I find actual hard deadlines are the best way to make me write and stop

Teal Lepley:

dithering and overthinking things.

Teal Lepley:

Backstory for our listeners.

Teal Lepley:

I'm an alum of NC state and it's university theater.

Teal Lepley:

So NC state through their department of arts, NC state has an award

Teal Lepley:

called the creative artist award in three different areas.

Teal Lepley:

Theater dance and music students submit their own original work for

Teal Lepley:

consideration for this work for theater.

Teal Lepley:

That means an original script when I was a junior.

Teal Lepley:

Oh goodness.

Teal Lepley:

Back in 20 15, 20 16, I think.

Teal Lepley:

Yeah.

Teal Lepley:

I was an English major at NC state, but I was involved in theater all four years

Teal Lepley:

and I had several friends in theater.

Teal Lepley:

As people were advertising the creative artist award had several friends were

Teal Lepley:

like, you are the fiction writer.

Teal Lepley:

Why don't you write a play?

Teal Lepley:

I said, I've never written a play before.

Teal Lepley:

I wouldn't know how to do.

Teal Lepley:

And as time went on more and more people ganged up on me and tried to bully me

Teal Lepley:

into doing it eventually I agreed.

Teal Lepley:

This took me a little while, but eventually I took one of the short

Teal Lepley:

stories that I'd written for a fiction writing class and use that as think

Teal Lepley:

the second scene for the play that I ended up writing and submitting,

Teal Lepley:

which was called ghosts and strangers, probably talk about that more later

Teal Lepley:

on, but, um, so Of Ghosts and Strangers

Teal Lepley:

was submitted and actually ended up, ended up winning much to my surprise.

Teal Lepley:

I had forgotten about it and the fact that I'd submitted it.

Teal Lepley:

So I was very confused when it was announced that it had won, but

Teal Lepley:

after the award, the winning play is given a stage reading in the

Teal Lepley:

fall and then a full, I guess, not so much full production anymore.

Teal Lepley:

More of a workshop production in the spring, I suppose.

Teal Lepley:

Um, so for me, I ended up going through a lot of revisions

Teal Lepley:

during that one school year.

Teal Lepley:

I think I ended up rewriting it once before the stage reading once during

Teal Lepley:

that week long rehearsal process.

Teal Lepley:

And I guess it was before the staged reading.

Teal Lepley:

And then I think I must have rewritten it two or three times before

Teal Lepley:

the full production in the fall.

Teal Lepley:

And for me what got me going and kept me going with that process was the simple

Teal Lepley:

fact of those were hard deadlines.

Teal Lepley:

I needed to have it revised before I handed it over to students to read, I

Teal Lepley:

needed to have certain obvious problems fixed before they read it before.

Teal Lepley:

And then for the spring production director, Mia self was an absolute

Teal Lepley:

blessing for that entire process.

Teal Lepley:

She was just delightful the entire time and really helped me develop the

Teal Lepley:

play and the story and the characters.

Teal Lepley:

She directed the production.

Teal Lepley:

It was just so wonderful about making sure that it was true to my own vision, which

Teal Lepley:

was for me as a, playwright's such a gift.

Teal Lepley:

I know there's a lot of playwrights out there who aren't as lucky.

Teal Lepley:

So for me, because I had that support, I would have so many conversations with Mia.

Teal Lepley:

Oh, wouldn't it be interesting of this?

Teal Lepley:

Oh, we could try this and this.

Teal Lepley:

Oh, what if this character ended up doing this?

Teal Lepley:

And so I just ended up constantly having new ideas.

Teal Lepley:

When you've scenes and new characters and revisions, I went through so many

Teal Lepley:

different script versions before we finally got to the production, but

Teal Lepley:

what pushed me to get through some different versions was simple fact.

Teal Lepley:

I needed to have it.

Teal Lepley:

I needed to turn this in.

Teal Lepley:

Mia needs it by Friday.

Teal Lepley:

That's that I think was the time in my life that I wrote the most.

Teal Lepley:

It was absolutely wonderful.

Teal Lepley:

And afterwards, after the production for awhile, I didn't quite,

Teal Lepley:

I couldn't let the script go.

Teal Lepley:

And so I would have friends over for an informal reading

Teal Lepley:

just to hear their opinions.

Teal Lepley:

And again, that knowledge of, well, they're going to be here at my house.

Teal Lepley:

You know, on Friday.

Teal Lepley:

So I guess it needs to be done by them.

Teal Lepley:

Huh?

Teal Lepley:

Deadlines are magical for productivity.

Griffin James:

They truly are.

Griffin James:

It was Mike Wiley who once said to me, the quickest way

Griffin James:

to get work done is to book it.

Griffin James:

It's so true though, because the moment it's going to be available for public

Griffin James:

consumption, there is a new motivation.

Griffin James:

There is this fire under your ass.

Griffin James:

What I was hearing, as you were speaking was just this idea of

Griffin James:

external support guiding you through the writing in the revision process.

Griffin James:

And I, I definitely agree with that and feel like that is something

Griffin James:

practical writers can take away is just having external support

Griffin James:

to help streamline that process.

Griffin James:

Because I, I work in a similar fashion.

Griffin James:

I cannot work on self-imposed deadlines.

Griffin James:

I can set them.

Griffin James:

I will look at them and I will think, well, who the heck is

Griffin James:

he to set this deadline for me?

Griffin James:

I

Teal Lepley:

think in the playwriting class we took with Ian Finley.

Teal Lepley:

He said that.

Teal Lepley:

One of the motivations he used to get scripts done was he told his

Teal Lepley:

brother, if I don't have the script done by this and this day, I'm

Teal Lepley:

going to pay you a hundred dollars.

Teal Lepley:

And so his brother had never tried so hard to distract them and get them to hang out.

Teal Lepley:

But he was also really great motivation.

Teal Lepley:

Understandably, you don't want to pay his brother a hundred bucks

Griffin James:

works.

Griffin James:

I'm going to have to steal that idea.

Griffin James:

I definitely agree with the idea that it's easier to abide by a deadline when

Griffin James:

it feels like it was never your idea.

Griffin James:

But as you had mentioned, you you've worked on an

Griffin James:

original show as a playwright.

Griffin James:

But in addition, you are a performer and you were recently involved in Gavin.

Griffin James:

Bell's original play, a case of salt performed at NC state university theater.

Griffin James:

So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about your experiences

Griffin James:

working on original theater as both the person who writes the words and the

Griffin James:

vessel that speaks them into existence, what was it like being on both ends of.

Teal Lepley:

I have to say it was really delightful to be asked to

Teal Lepley:

come back as a guest artist for that recent production of a case of salt.

Teal Lepley:

It felt like coming full circle because I had gotten to go through

Teal Lepley:

that process as the playwright.

Teal Lepley:

And now I got to be there as an actor supporting another playwright.

Teal Lepley:

So it was just such, such an amazing experience on both ends

Teal Lepley:

my experience as the playwright.

Teal Lepley:

I think for me that, because that was the first play I'd ever written much less had

Teal Lepley:

performed in front of other human beings.

Teal Lepley:

I was really afraid to let it go.

Teal Lepley:

And so I was there probably unwisely for just about every

Teal Lepley:

single rehearsal for my show.

Teal Lepley:

I didn't always speak a lot, but I was there and listening and on one hand,

Teal Lepley:

hearing it over and over was very helpful.

Teal Lepley:

Yeah.

Teal Lepley:

Even as the actors improved and found a better rhythm, I could

Teal Lepley:

better pick out the little hiccup.

Teal Lepley:

Or where the rhythm can be better or where a scene could be clearer.

Teal Lepley:

However, that kind of focus wasn't necessarily the best approach.

Teal Lepley:

In some ways.

Teal Lepley:

I think I focused so long on the play that I got a little caught up in it.

Teal Lepley:

I couldn't, I couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Teal Lepley:

And so taking some time away from it afterwards.

Teal Lepley:

Definitely the right choice.

Teal Lepley:

However, I got to give it up for Gavin bell because she was there for, I think

Teal Lepley:

two, maybe three rehearsals in the three weeks of rehearsals that we had.

Teal Lepley:

I had a lot of respect for her restraint there.

Teal Lepley:

I wish I'd had a little more of it myself, but it was so strange

Teal Lepley:

and wonderful to be able to.

Teal Lepley:

Act in a piece and have the playwright right there.

Teal Lepley:

It was very interesting too, because I mean, having the playwright

Teal Lepley:

right there at the impulses to ask questions and on one respect, that's

Teal Lepley:

very helpful to the playwright.

Teal Lepley:

I know for me, I had people ask, well, Hey, what's this character's

Teal Lepley:

background or, oh, they mentioned this.

Teal Lepley:

And it made me think about things that I had never considered before.

Teal Lepley:

I'm like, oh, that's right.

Teal Lepley:

I do need to give this character more of a backstory.

Teal Lepley:

Or why is this character even in this scene, why did they show up?

Teal Lepley:

And so having them ask those questions.

Teal Lepley:

Was incredibly helpful.

Teal Lepley:

On the other hand, as an actor, you know, you ask somebody these questions and

Teal Lepley:

Gavin, in some cases, it's kind of funny.

Teal Lepley:

She was like, that's a good question.

Teal Lepley:

What's your answer?

Teal Lepley:

I'll tell you mine.

Teal Lepley:

After the production, I want you to come up with your own.

Teal Lepley:

I'm like, oh gosh.

Teal Lepley:

Interesting.

Teal Lepley:

Gavin Bell's A Case of Salt was in some ways a murder mystery.

Teal Lepley:

It was about a group of theater students putting on a murder, mystery play.

Teal Lepley:

And so the structure was it alternating between scenes of the students in

Teal Lepley:

rehearsals, hanging out that sort of thing, and then jumping back and forth

Teal Lepley:

between the scenes from their play either in rehearsals or in production.

Teal Lepley:

And so it was a very interesting balance that she.

Teal Lepley:

Within the world of the play, the show that the students were

Teal Lepley:

performing was student written.

Teal Lepley:

They had written it in themselves.

Teal Lepley:

And so in some ways it was allowed to be strange and sometimes trophy.

Teal Lepley:

And I remember we had so many questions about some of the vague

Teal Lepley:

references because we, as the audience never get to see their entire.

Teal Lepley:

And so some of the questions we were left with were so funny, how on earth could

Teal Lepley:

stealing a garden gnome lead to a murder?

Teal Lepley:

We don't know, but it was fun to ask Gavin and Gavin never

Teal Lepley:

quite gave us an entire answer.

Teal Lepley:

So we had so much fun trying to figure it out first.

Teal Lepley:

So.

Teal Lepley:

So in some ways, having Gavin there to answer questions was very helpful

Teal Lepley:

because we could also ask, Hey, the wording here is a little funny.

Teal Lepley:

It makes me think this, but I'm not sure if that was your intention.

Teal Lepley:

And so in some ways the questions that we asked could be very helpful for her.

Teal Lepley:

I know she took notes for later revisions.

Teal Lepley:

I remember having one particular conversation.

Teal Lepley:

So in case of salt is.

Teal Lepley:

Thematically, very focused on disabilities, specifically

Teal Lepley:

disability in theater, two of the characters in the show are disabled.

Teal Lepley:

One of them is hard of hearing and the other uses a cane.

Teal Lepley:

I played the character with a cane because.

Teal Lepley:

I myself am a disabled actor who sometimes uses a cane.

Teal Lepley:

And I know Gavin is very adamant about having actors

Teal Lepley:

who were disabled themselves.

Teal Lepley:

I thought was absolutely fantastic effort.

Teal Lepley:

I have never gotten to play a character who was written to be disabled before.

Teal Lepley:

So that was just a fantastic experience.

Teal Lepley:

But within the show, they do discuss disability quite a bit.

Teal Lepley:

And I remember.

Teal Lepley:

Before I was even cast in the show, actually, a friend who might be

Teal Lepley:

the guest host in this episode.

Teal Lepley:

Griffin connected me with Gavin because she had already, already

Teal Lepley:

written a character who uses a cane into her show, but Griffin thought,

Teal Lepley:

Hey, maybe you would want to talk to someone who does use a cane.

Teal Lepley:

And so we had a lovely zoom call.

Teal Lepley:

Talking about our different perspectives on having a disability because Gavin,

Teal Lepley:

herself is hard of hearing as well.

Teal Lepley:

So she could base the character of Joey.

Teal Lepley:

Who's hard of hearing on a lot of her experiences, but she didn't have

Teal Lepley:

that perspective of someone who uses a cane who has a visible disability.

Teal Lepley:

And so we had a lot of really lovely conversations about that.

Teal Lepley:

And some of those continued, even after I was cast, I remember she

Teal Lepley:

sent in some revisions shortly into the rehearsal process.

Teal Lepley:

There were very big, but there were a couple of little line edits.

Teal Lepley:

And I remember talking to her about one.

Teal Lepley:

It was in a conversation about casting disabled actors in disabled roles and

Teal Lepley:

I remember discussing the wording of it and some of the implications, and

Teal Lepley:

it was so fantastic to be able to have that discussion with the playwright

Teal Lepley:

and getting some input on it versus

Teal Lepley:

accepting the lines as they are with no flexibility.

Griffin James:

I really love that.

Griffin James:

And I I'm so glad that you and Gavin were able to be connected.

Griffin James:

Patrick Torres of Raleigh little theater had said something very, very beautiful.

Griffin James:

I felt in regards to being in communication with the communities,

Griffin James:

when you are making art, that involves them, it was specifically

Griffin James:

phrased with us, not about us.

Teal Lepley:

That is absolutely

Griffin James:

perfect.

Griffin James:

And I really love the idea of incorporating the people involved

Griffin James:

into the conversation rather than just letting it be about them.

Griffin James:

And I'm really glad that Gavin was able to incorporate that into her process.

Teal Lepley:

Yeah, that was something I really loved about case of salt,

Teal Lepley:

because not only did you have disabled characters and disabled actors,

Teal Lepley:

you had a disabled playwright.

Teal Lepley:

And so I thought it made for just some very lovely, genuine conversations.

Teal Lepley:

Most people would never have thought about.

Griffin James:

So in addition to starring and Gavin bells play as a

Griffin James:

cane user, you have also written an article on virtual theater and its

Griffin James:

relationship with the industry itself, how it helps the, how it helps theater

Griffin James:

become more accessible and creates new opportunities for the disabled community.

Griffin James:

I'm wondering if you could briefly talk about your experiences as a disabled

Teal Lepley:

performer.

Teal Lepley:

So I, in addition to.

Teal Lepley:

Being an actor and playwright.

Teal Lepley:

I'm also a writer for a website called accessibility.com, which

Teal Lepley:

is meant to be a resource about accessibility and disability topics,

Teal Lepley:

everything from technological best practices to human issues.

Teal Lepley:

And at one point I asked if I could write an article specifically about

Teal Lepley:

virtual theater, because during the pandemic, I was involved in a

Teal Lepley:

lot of virtual theater productions.

Teal Lepley:

I mean, those were the only ones that were happening at the time.

Teal Lepley:

But for me as a disabled actor, it was, it was such a gift.

Teal Lepley:

I mean, I missed having a live audience and being on stage, but

Teal Lepley:

the experience was just fantastic.

Teal Lepley:

Made me think about myself as a disabled after very differently because with

Teal Lepley:

zoom productions and zoom rehearsals, it was everything just became easier.

Teal Lepley:

I didn't have to worry about transportation, getting

Teal Lepley:

ready, packing my bags.

Teal Lepley:

I didn't have to worry about, are my joints going to start hurting?

Teal Lepley:

Am I going to need to sit down more for rehearsals?

Teal Lepley:

Am I going to have more problems getting around?

Teal Lepley:

Is it going to affect my focus?

Teal Lepley:

I could just sit at home in one spot, not really moving much.

Teal Lepley:

And it was such a relief physically that I'd never considered it before.

Teal Lepley:

But then in addition to doing virtual theater, being an audience.

Teal Lepley:

To virtual theater was just as fantastic for me as a disabled audience member.

Teal Lepley:

There were so many more accommodations that are available to virtual theater that

Teal Lepley:

I'd never considered for live theater, or perhaps had even seen very often

Teal Lepley:

when you're doing a virtual production.

Teal Lepley:

It's so much easier to add open captioning to add audio description.

Teal Lepley:

So so much easier for people with visual impairments or those were deaf or hard

Teal Lepley:

of hearing to access and enjoy shows.

Teal Lepley:

Not only that, but for me, I didn't have to worry if, if I was feeling

Teal Lepley:

up for leaving the house, you know, how many of us have made plans to go

Teal Lepley:

see a show or a movie or see friends.

Teal Lepley:

And then at the end of the day, I don't want to leave the house.

Teal Lepley:

I don't want to put on real clothes.

Teal Lepley:

And so to be able to enjoy life theater, just from the comfort

Teal Lepley:

of your living room couch.

Teal Lepley:

It was just fantastic.

Teal Lepley:

And I don't think that's exclusive to those disabled community obviously,

Teal Lepley:

but I think moving forward, there's a lot to learn from the adaptations we

Teal Lepley:

had to make while doing virtual theater and as live theater comes back, there's

Teal Lepley:

already changes that I've noticed that I'm really hoping are expanded

Teal Lepley:

upon and become more common moving.

Teal Lepley:

One thing that I've noticed with NC state's productions recently.

Teal Lepley:

And they're just on my mind because I just saw one recently SpongeBob the musical.

Teal Lepley:

But this year as they start having life productions, again,

Teal Lepley:

they have had live captions.

Teal Lepley:

Built into the production via projections.

Teal Lepley:

And it was just not questioned.

Teal Lepley:

It was always there, which is, I think initially developed because

Teal Lepley:

their first couple productions, the performers were in masks.

Teal Lepley:

And so are their concerns.

Teal Lepley:

Like you can't see as much of their face.

Teal Lepley:

You can't read their lips.

Teal Lepley:

They might not be able to project.

Teal Lepley:

So the captions made sense, but now as they move forward with

Teal Lepley:

productions, with actors who are not masked, they've retained it.

Teal Lepley:

And it's just so lovely to see because with the right design,

Teal Lepley:

they don't have to be distracting, but they can be there if you need.

Teal Lepley:

Another thing that I've seen is virtual playbills, which I don't remember

Teal Lepley:

seeing too often beforehand, but I mean, on one hand, you, you get less

Teal Lepley:

risk of passing on COVID-19 of course.

Teal Lepley:

And you've also got less waste.

Teal Lepley:

You don't have as much paper products just sitting around, but you also

Teal Lepley:

have a lot more accessibility options.

Teal Lepley:

People who are visually impaired.

Teal Lepley:

It's so much easier to get larger text if they need it.

Teal Lepley:

Do you screen readers if they need it?

Teal Lepley:

It's also easier to alt text descriptions for photos and images,

Teal Lepley:

and then you can also add other great accessibility options, such as plot

Teal Lepley:

descriptions and content warnings.

Teal Lepley:

So many more options, and it becomes so much easier to, and I think more

Teal Lepley:

convenient when you don't have to worry about getting them printed and making sure

Teal Lepley:

they're passed out around the theater.

Teal Lepley:

So I really hope we see more virtual playbills moving forward.

Griffin James:

I'm really glad you brought that up.

Griffin James:

The plot description is something I had not even thought about

Griffin James:

before you brought it up.

Griffin James:

Just now

Teal Lepley:

it was something I hadn't considered, but doing my own personal

Teal Lepley:

research is this has become a new passion of mine and I'm still learning

Teal Lepley:

more myself, but for people with perhaps autism or other neurological.

Teal Lepley:

Intellectual disabilities or even just anxiety, sometimes just going

Teal Lepley:

in knowing exactly what you're going to see, makes it a little

Teal Lepley:

less stressful or a little easier.

Teal Lepley:

You don't have to worry.

Teal Lepley:

Am I missing something what's coming next?

Teal Lepley:

Do you get to just sit and enjoy the performance?

Teal Lepley:

So it's a little less

Griffin James:

stress.

Griffin James:

One

Teal Lepley:

thing that also happened as live theater returned, some theaters

Teal Lepley:

would allow you to stream on demand the recording of their performances,

Teal Lepley:

which was really delightful to me.

Teal Lepley:

You still had actors on a stage, but you didn't have to be there in person.

Teal Lepley:

And again, with the virtual performances, it's a lot of the same advantages

Teal Lepley:

you can add open captioning, audio description, ASL interpretation.

Teal Lepley:

So many of these things become a lot easier to add to a recording,

Teal Lepley:

but aside from accessibility, It's also just a great idea.

Teal Lepley:

Like I said, how many of us make plans to go out and then you get home and

Teal Lepley:

you're like, I don't want to leave.

Teal Lepley:

Or maybe it's raining, pouring outside and you don't want to drive,

Teal Lepley:

or maybe you're not feeling well.

Teal Lepley:

Just want to stay home.

Teal Lepley:

It's so fantastic to have the option, just pay about the ticket price and

Teal Lepley:

just be able to watch it on demand from home for a 24 hour window.

Teal Lepley:

Maybe I think it's a great option for a theater to increase their revenue as well.

Teal Lepley:

I'd really like to see more of that moving

Griffin James:

forward.

Griffin James:

I also think about how that could be a really great opportunity for.

Griffin James:

Maybe family who live out of state to support the work of family or friends

Griffin James:

who live long distances, and they're unable to make it that distance.

Teal Lepley:

That's a great point.

Teal Lepley:

I hadn't considered

Griffin James:

that.

Griffin James:

Or even, or even if you have a family member who might be bedridden or cannot

Griffin James:

leave the house due to medical conditions, or even, if they just don't feel like.

Griffin James:

But even if they are confined to their house, for any reason, it, it

Griffin James:

creates this opportunity for them to connect with someone they know, and to

Griffin James:

support the work of someone they love.

Teal Lepley:

And you make a great point for folks with

Teal Lepley:

mobility based disabilities.

Teal Lepley:

It removes so many barriers because let me tell you as someone with a physical

Teal Lepley:

illness, Going out, it can be such a pain, especially to a new place.

Teal Lepley:

You have to think more carefully about transportation.

Teal Lepley:

Where are they accessible?

Teal Lepley:

Parking spots.

Teal Lepley:

Are there stairs?

Teal Lepley:

Where's the ramp?

Teal Lepley:

Is it going to be all the way around on the backside of the building?

Teal Lepley:

Spoiler alert too often, they are, but then there's the

Teal Lepley:

inside of the theater as well.

Teal Lepley:

Are you going to be able to maneuver easily to your seat?

Teal Lepley:

Are you going to have to navigate crowds?

Teal Lepley:

What about the bathrooms?

Teal Lepley:

Are they a mile away going out could be such a hassle, but if you're just

Teal Lepley:

allowed to stream it at home, so many of those barriers and problems just

Teal Lepley:

go away or for those with sensory disabilities or sensory sensitivities,

Teal Lepley:

Ooh, that's a tongue twister.

Teal Lepley:

Being able to watch a performance in a controlled environment

Teal Lepley:

can be absolutely fantastic.

Teal Lepley:

You don't have to worry about noises in the audience.

Teal Lepley:

Or even if you're more sensitive to things like the sound of gunshots or

Teal Lepley:

perhaps fog machines being used, it's a great way to remove those concerns

Griffin James:

along those lines.

Griffin James:

I don't know about you, but in the summer of 2020, and

Griffin James:

during like the height of the black lives matter movement, I don't know

Griffin James:

about you, but I remember seeing a lot of theater post diversity statements

Griffin James:

and accessibility statements.

Griffin James:

And I just, I remember seeing a lot of theaters post these statements

Griffin James:

saying, yes, we aim to be diverse and we want to be more accessible.

Griffin James:

So my question for you is, is there anything that you've not talked about

Griffin James:

already that you wish theaters would know, or just a practical things that

Griffin James:

they can incorporate into their work now, that way they can follow through on.

Griffin James:

According

Teal Lepley:

to the CDC.

Teal Lepley:

One in four, us adults live with a disability that makes it the

Teal Lepley:

largest minority group in America.

Teal Lepley:

That has a huge portion of the population and the most common disability type, which

Teal Lepley:

is mobility affects one in seven adults.

Teal Lepley:

Now, as someone who is included in that statistic, having a mobility

Teal Lepley:

disability causes me so much anxiety.

Teal Lepley:

When it comes to performing, especially when it comes to auditions.

Teal Lepley:

As I mentioned, I don't use a cane all the time.

Teal Lepley:

I have what's called a dynamic disability.

Teal Lepley:

So the severity and its effects are different every day.

Teal Lepley:

Sometimes my.

Teal Lepley:

Are more cooperative than others.

Teal Lepley:

However, that can also make performing very difficult to plan ahead for

Teal Lepley:

maybe I'm, I've been feeling good lately when I go in for an audition,

Teal Lepley:

but there's always going to be that anxiety in the back of my head.

Teal Lepley:

Wondering.

Teal Lepley:

What if that changes mid rehearsal, what if I suddenly do need to use my cane?

Teal Lepley:

How is that going to affect my ability to do the blocking?

Teal Lepley:

What if I was supposed to do fight choreography that could change so

Teal Lepley:

much of the blocking could change, but also there's always that fear.

Teal Lepley:

Would the director be okay with it?

Teal Lepley:

Would they ask me to step aside?

Teal Lepley:

It's a huge source of anxiety.

Teal Lepley:

For me.

Teal Lepley:

And I can't imagine how many performers there are out there who

Teal Lepley:

maybe their health has gotten worse.

Teal Lepley:

Maybe they're not as mobile as they've used to be.

Teal Lepley:

And they've stepped aside and they've stepped away from performing.

Teal Lepley:

I can't imagine doing that, but I'm always afraid what if that does happen?

Teal Lepley:

And I always feel.

Teal Lepley:

What if I do audition with a cane, no one would say that's the reason I didn't

Teal Lepley:

get cast, but I imagine there's plenty of directors who would wonder about the

Teal Lepley:

practicality of casting, a disabled actor.

Teal Lepley:

And I think it's not as much of a risk as a lot of people might assume

Teal Lepley:

casting disabled actors doesn't have to be a challenge as long as you're

Teal Lepley:

willing to be a creative problem solver.

Teal Lepley:

One great resource that I would highly recommend is this

Teal Lepley:

fantastic book called disability.

Teal Lepley:

And.

Teal Lepley:

At practical manual for inclusion in the arts, by Stephanie Barton Farkas.

Teal Lepley:

If I could, I would mail a copy of this book to every director

Teal Lepley:

that I could, because as it said, it's a practical manual.

Teal Lepley:

It goes through auditions, rehearsals, blocking performances.

Teal Lepley:

Publicity.

Teal Lepley:

It goes through everything, talking about different disabilities and

Teal Lepley:

different ways to adapt and accommodate.

Teal Lepley:

And sometimes the accommodations that you make can be so interesting

Teal Lepley:

and add new layers and add new nuance to shows and character.

Teal Lepley:

They can add for folks with mobility aids, that can be such a fun

Teal Lepley:

challenge for a costume designer.

Teal Lepley:

There's so many different ways to incorporate these disabilities

Teal Lepley:

and these actors into a show.

Teal Lepley:

You don't just have to cast them when you have a disabled character.

Teal Lepley:

Although when you do have a disabled character, I do believe

Teal Lepley:

you should at least seek out disabled actors for those roles.

Teal Lepley:

Let's be honest.

Teal Lepley:

Griffin, can you think of how many characters with disabilities

Teal Lepley:

can you think of in theater,

Griffin James:

Julia from Fefu and her Friends, I'm going to feel very bad

Griffin James:

if I misremembered the character name.

Griffin James:

Cause I was in the show, but if I remember correctly, Julia,

Griffin James:

from Fefu and her Friends.

Griffin James:

Is wheelchair bound,

Teal Lepley:

actually, that's one thing.

Teal Lepley:

And you can cut this out if you want, but wheelchair bound.

Teal Lepley:

Isn't a great way to phrase it.

Teal Lepley:

Wheelchair user.

Griffin James:

Okay.

Griffin James:

Thank you.

Griffin James:

I did not know that.

Griffin James:

Yeah, no worries.

Griffin James:

And honestly, I kind of don't want to cut that out because I

Griffin James:

think more people should know.

Griffin James:

I definitely did not.

Teal Lepley:

There's a lot of language that people don't think

Teal Lepley:

about that they use every day.

Teal Lepley:

One thing I learned recently was the word handicapped.

Teal Lepley:

It goes back to a phrase cap in hand, meaning people who have disabilities,

Teal Lepley:

who are standing out on the street corner, begging, which has such

Teal Lepley:

a terrible connotation, but we say it all the time talking about

Teal Lepley:

handicap spots and all, someone who uses an accessible parking spot.

Teal Lepley:

It's something.

Teal Lepley:

I still find myself having to stop and correct myself about there's so many

Teal Lepley:

phrases that we just don't think about.

Teal Lepley:

Can you think of any other characters with disabilities and

Griffin James:

theater?

Griffin James:

Ooh, I don't remember his name, but the main character.

Griffin James:

The curious incident of the dog in the nighttime, I'm

Teal Lepley:

blanking on his name as well.

Teal Lepley:

That is a very popular one.

Teal Lepley:

Another common one.

Teal Lepley:

When it comes to physical disability is the glass menagerie.

Teal Lepley:

Laura,

Griffin James:

who has to be honest.

Griffin James:

I don't know.

Griffin James:

I don't know that play I'm ignorant.

Teal Lepley:

That's fair.

Teal Lepley:

It's considered a classic.

Teal Lepley:

And from what I remember, Laura has one.

Teal Lepley:

And is like, quote unquote, emotionally fragile, I think is the phrasing they

Teal Lepley:

use, which isn't really a great phrase or definition, but that is when it

Teal Lepley:

comes to disability representation.

Teal Lepley:

I do take a lot of issues with the way the character is written.

Teal Lepley:

However, I have never once seen a production or heard of a production

Teal Lepley:

in in the area and I might be wrong.

Teal Lepley:

I might be wrong, but as far as I know, I haven't heard of any

Teal Lepley:

productions in the area where Laura is played by a disabled actor for one

Teal Lepley:

who uses a mobility aid daily life, which I think is a huge opportunity.

Teal Lepley:

There's not.

Teal Lepley:

Characters with disabilities, I guess, in terms of Shakespeare, there's Richard,

Teal Lepley:

the third, who, I don't think it's very specific about his disability.

Teal Lepley:

From what I remember, it's things like the phrase deformed

Teal Lepley:

or some comparison to a spider.

Teal Lepley:

There's not great descriptions of him, but that is a character with disability.

Teal Lepley:

However, these are just a few examples, but there's not a whole lot.

Teal Lepley:

And if you go in.

Teal Lepley:

With a mentality of, I need a disabled character in order

Teal Lepley:

to cast a disabled actor.

Teal Lepley:

You're really missing out on a lot of fantastic actors out there.

Griffin James:

And you know, something else I thought of, as you were talking

Griffin James:

about, that is the idea of none of us are free until all of us are.

Griffin James:

And I think about how, how a lot of the practices that would be

Griffin James:

beneficial for the disabled community in theater, what benefits them

Griffin James:

will benefit everyone at large.

Griffin James:

And I, and I think that's something I wish more theaters would know and would

Griffin James:

acknowledge, for example, like having a break system put in place, I'm personally

Griffin James:

fond of the equity break system.

Griffin James:

But I mean, I know, I know some directors who love to power through.

Griffin James:

And forget that people get tired and need breaks.

Griffin James:

Oh yeah.

Griffin James:

Specifically me.

Griffin James:

I want to break,

Griffin James:

but allowing, but allowing breaks, and this is just a small example, but allowing

Griffin James:

breaks for people to just take a moment of rest before jumping back into the work

Griffin James:

will not only be beneficial for disabled actors who might just need that moment,

Griffin James:

but it will be beneficial for everyone to just take that moment of pause.

Teal Lepley:

But one other thing that I've seen recently is some productions have

Teal Lepley:

been having zoom rehearsals early on in the rehearsal process, especially for like

Teal Lepley:

table work or just line throughs, which are great for the disabled community.

Teal Lepley:

You know, it's less physically taxing.

Teal Lepley:

You don't have to worry about transportation, but also it's a lot

Teal Lepley:

more convenient just for everybody, you know, for one, you get to save

Teal Lepley:

on gas, which is kind of important, but it's also convenient for.

Teal Lepley:

What if your car breaks down, what if, what if you're a parent with a

Teal Lepley:

child there's so many great convenient options there too, but when it comes

Teal Lepley:

to accommodations and these adjustments that you could make specifically for

Teal Lepley:

people with disabilities, another thing to keep in mind, like I said,

Teal Lepley:

the disabled community is the largest minority group in America, and it

Teal Lepley:

is the only one that any person.

Teal Lepley:

Could join at any time, you may not be born with a disability, but anyone could

Teal Lepley:

gain one in any time in their life.

Teal Lepley:

And eventually if you live long enough, you will.

Teal Lepley:

And so by going ahead and helping disabled community, you might be

Teal Lepley:

benefiting yourself in the future, which I don't think is something

Teal Lepley:

most people consider for myself.

Teal Lepley:

My health problems didn't crop up.

Teal Lepley:

Well, they didn't crop up severely until I was about 23.

Teal Lepley:

And I've never considered before that, that I would be disabled, you

Teal Lepley:

know, not until I was in my sixties, seventies, something like that.

Teal Lepley:

And yet, here I am.

Teal Lepley:

Now, how old am I?

Teal Lepley:

27.

Teal Lepley:

I think that's just an interesting perspective that not a lot of people have.

Teal Lepley:

But it's something to keep in mind, especially when you mentioned,

Teal Lepley:

oh, what was that phrase you just

Griffin James:

used?

Griffin James:

None of us are free until all of us are free.

Teal Lepley:

Exactly.

Teal Lepley:

Wow.

Teal Lepley:

I've been on my soapbox,

Griffin James:

huh?

Griffin James:

Soapbox.

Griffin James:

Hence the name Artist Soapbox welcome to the pod.

Teal Lepley:

Well, I guess it's appropriate

Griffin James:

then to go back to a case of salt, where there any

Griffin James:

specific practices set up in place?

Griffin James:

Rehearsals that made it more accessible, friendly that you would like to point

Griffin James:

out for others to possibly learn from.

Teal Lepley:

So a case of salt was directed by Danica Janell Jackson,

Teal Lepley:

and I cannot praise this woman enough.

Teal Lepley:

I was, I'm not going to lie very anxious going into rehearsals, even though I

Teal Lepley:

was playing a character with a cane.

Teal Lepley:

And so obviously I'd be able to use my cane, the entire rehearsal process.

Teal Lepley:

I was very anxious and I went in the first rehearsal, like having prepared

Teal Lepley:

a little speech about here is what you need to know about my health.

Teal Lepley:

Here are the certain accommodations I'll need.

Teal Lepley:

Here are things you need to know.

Teal Lepley:

I was ready to give a CliffsNotes version, but I went in and I don't

Teal Lepley:

think I said any of it because Danica was already so prepared.

Teal Lepley:

And so seamlessly accounted for everything.

Teal Lepley:

I think we were halfway through the blocking process when she

Teal Lepley:

and I were talking about, wait, are you sitting in the scene?

Teal Lepley:

Am I standing?

Teal Lepley:

And she said, oh no, you were sitting in the, no, you're

Teal Lepley:

standing in the last scene.

Teal Lepley:

So you're sitting in this one.

Teal Lepley:

I tried to scatter it.

Teal Lepley:

So every time you're in the scene standing up for most of it, you're

Teal Lepley:

sitting down in the next one so it's not too hard on your joints.

Teal Lepley:

And I was flabbergasted because I'd never mentioned that, but

Teal Lepley:

she went ahead and thought of it and incorporated it so smoothly.

Teal Lepley:

Hadn't even consciously registered.

Teal Lepley:

She made it so simple and so easy.

Teal Lepley:

It was fantastic.

Teal Lepley:

And I know we made a lot of scene transitions, moving furniture, and

Teal Lepley:

a couple of times I offered to help.

Teal Lepley:

Oh, I can move this chair.

Teal Lepley:

And every time she would always ask, are you sure?

Teal Lepley:

Or are you just trying to be helpful?

Teal Lepley:

What's going to be easiest for you.

Teal Lepley:

And she just made it.

Teal Lepley:

She just made me so comfortable enough.

Teal Lepley:

It wasn't, there was no judgment, but there was always just the concern

Teal Lepley:

for me and my health and safety.

Teal Lepley:

And so I think it makes everyone else, a little more comfortable speaking up about

Teal Lepley:

their own limitations or comfort levels.

Teal Lepley:

You know, someone saying like, Hey, I'm having trouble moving these two chairs.

Teal Lepley:

They're a little heavy.

Teal Lepley:

And so maybe being able to make adjustments there.

Teal Lepley:

And part of it, I think is becoming.

Teal Lepley:

You were still coming out of the pandemic, but I remember everyone

Teal Lepley:

was so focused on their health.

Teal Lepley:

No one was afraid to speak up.

Teal Lepley:

Like an email is like, Hey, I'm not feeling well.

Teal Lepley:

I'm going to sit out of this rehearsal or, Hey, I'm exhausted.

Teal Lepley:

I need a little break.

Teal Lepley:

Yeah, of course.

Teal Lepley:

Take a break.

Teal Lepley:

You have to take care of yourself, which is such a great mindset

Teal Lepley:

because I think pre pandemic.

Teal Lepley:

Most people always have that perspective of, no, I need to keep going.

Teal Lepley:

I just need to push through.

Teal Lepley:

And even in theater, you know, it was easy to think.

Teal Lepley:

We don't have a lot of rehearsals.

Teal Lepley:

I don't want to miss my blocking, but the pandemic really forced a lot

Teal Lepley:

of us to step back and reevaluate the importance of our health.

Teal Lepley:

And so that followed through during rehearsals for a case of salt

Teal Lepley:

and it made for some really great accommodations being incorporated in it.

Teal Lepley:

Case of Salt was performed in Thompson hall, in the studio theater, which is

Teal Lepley:

definitely the smaller theater in the building and the wings in the theater.

Teal Lepley:

Very shallow.

Teal Lepley:

There's not a whole lot of space to move around in there, especially

Teal Lepley:

when you have a cast of, oh, I think it was eight people.

Teal Lepley:

And especially on the occasions where most of them ended up

Teal Lepley:

on the same side of the stage.

Teal Lepley:

And you had different set pieces in furniture pieces in the wings as well.

Teal Lepley:

At one point in rehearsals there was one day where the wings were so

Teal Lepley:

cramped that I had issues getting through beyond stage on my queue.

Teal Lepley:

And I remember stopping and asking Danica and ours at our stage manager.

Teal Lepley:

Hey, can we take a moment

Teal Lepley:

to figure out what to do with the wings, because everything gets just

Teal Lepley:

thrown in there wherever it'll fit, but it makes it very difficult to

Teal Lepley:

maneuver, especially when you need a little extra space for a cane.

Teal Lepley:

And so I remember we paused the rehearsal.

Teal Lepley:

We figured out where to put all of the desks, all the chairs, the table, all

Teal Lepley:

of that, where it would fit comfortably.

Teal Lepley:

So we still had plenty of space to maneuver.

Teal Lepley:

I know it made it very.

Teal Lepley:

Much easier for me, but it made it in the long run, much easier for everybody else

Teal Lepley:

to get around backstage, without bumping into things or knocking something over it.

Teal Lepley:

It was just a really great moment to be able to speak up and have my voice.

Griffin James:

I, I really love that.

Griffin James:

And I love that they, they were in communication with you throughout

Griffin James:

the process to really ensure that it was working for everyone.

Griffin James:

Um,

Teal Lepley:

I know for me personally, there's a phrase I've come across

Teal Lepley:

called the intimacy of disability is when you have a disability, you can

Teal Lepley:

often feel the pressure of everybody kind of wants to know your business.

Teal Lepley:

I know I've had countless strangers ask me what's with the cane.

Teal Lepley:

Would you do, why are you using that?

Teal Lepley:

Even mind you even just strangers walking around target would ask

Teal Lepley:

me, it drove me nuts that everybody felt entitled to my medical

Teal Lepley:

history as if it was public domain.

Teal Lepley:

When you have a disability, especially one that affects you

Teal Lepley:

physically, it can be difficult because of that pressure to disclose.

Teal Lepley:

Information, even when it is needed.

Teal Lepley:

And so it can be hard to accept new people into that circle of people that

Teal Lepley:

you can just speak about it freely with.

Teal Lepley:

I know I'm very hesitant to give details about my disability to

Teal Lepley:

strangers and even acquaintance.

Teal Lepley:

But Danica and the crew and the cast made it so comfortable.

Teal Lepley:

We could have conversations so easily and it was so simple to speak up and

Teal Lepley:

explain, oh, well, I can't really do this, or I'm having issues here, or it might

Teal Lepley:

be easier if we tried something else.

Teal Lepley:

And so just to have that freedom and trust there, Absolutely fantastic.

Griffin James:

I'm sure we could talk about this endlessly and I hope that

Griffin James:

more people continue to have these conversations within the industry

Griffin James:

so that we can really hold ourselves accountable to everything that we,

Griffin James:

we say when we say that we want to be more accessible and more diverse.

Griffin James:

And I want to thank you for speaking and for sharing.

Griffin James:

So honestly, No,

Teal Lepley:

thank you for the opportunity.

Teal Lepley:

It, like I said, it's not something that a lot of people think about.

Teal Lepley:

And while theater is very often a very progressive community, I do

Teal Lepley:

think disability is one area that it very often falls behind on.

Teal Lepley:

I do think that the pandemic with its focus on public health, I do think we have

Teal Lepley:

made good progress here because of it.

Teal Lepley:

And now I think it's a matter of remembering the discoveries and.

Teal Lepley:

Adaptations that we made and bringing them forward and building upon them.

Teal Lepley:

So I really look forward to seeing how theater, how live

Teal Lepley:

theater adapts as we move forward.

Griffin James:

I could not agree more and I cannot think of a

Griffin James:

better place to end than on that.

Griffin James:

So, thank you again to you all for taking the time to do this.

Griffin James:

I appreciate you so much.

Griffin James:

And is there anything you want to plug?

Teal Lepley:

Yeah, so because NC state just can't get rid of me despite

Teal Lepley:

having graduated about five years ago.

Teal Lepley:

I think my next project that I'll be working on is NC state's theater

Teal Lepley:

fest production of Assassins.

Teal Lepley:

So definitely looking forward to working on that.

Teal Lepley:

And I definitely

Teal Lepley:

look forward to all of you and lovely people, hopefully coming to see it to,

Griffin James:

yeah.

Griffin James:

Thank you so much.

Griffin James:

And the assassins will run from June 2nd to June 19th.

Teal Lepley:

Oh, that's important

Griffin James:

information.

Griffin James:

Yes.

Griffin James:

I, I not surprised, but I might be stage managing it.

Griffin James:

So, um, do your patrons come see us?

Griffin James:

Come and support us.

Griffin James:

If you don't you're homophobic abelist.

Griffin James:

I don't make the rules.

Griffin James:

I just follow them.

Griffin James:

This is

Griffin James:

how we get canceled.

Griffin James:

Jesus.

Tamara Kissane:

Established in 2017 Artist Soapbox is a podcast production

Tamara Kissane:

studio based in North Carolina artists, soapbox produces original scripted

Tamara Kissane:

audio fiction and an ongoing interview podcast about the creative process.

Tamara Kissane:

We cultivate aspiring audio dramatists and producers, and we partner with

Tamara Kissane:

organizations and individuals to create new audio content for more

Tamara Kissane:

information and ways to support our work.

Tamara Kissane:

Check out.

Tamara Kissane:

artistsoapbox.org or find us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter.

Tamara Kissane:

The Artist Soapbox theme song is ashes by Juliana

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