Homelessness is a serious crisis in the United States, with the most recent report by the Department of Housing and Urban Development dated December 2022 finding over 580,000 unhoused people on a single night in January of 2022 (hud.gov). It is a sad reality that pet ownership by housing-insecure individuals and families is a significant obstacle to sheltering and affordable housing. The lack of affordable co-sheltering facilities and pet-friendly affordable housing can be the factor that keeps someone at risk in the streets.

From their website: "My Dog Is My Home's mission is to increase access to shelter and housing for people experiencing homelessness with companion animals. By securing their ability to maintain their most important relationships and find adequate shelter, we ensure every family’s right to build a home."

Founder Christine Kim shares with us the story of the organization, how it helps communities with co-sheltering and affordable housing initiatives, and her advocacy work with the Providing for Unhoused People with Pets (PUPP) Act, a federal bill to provide financial assistance to homeless service programs, shelters, and housing.

If you like our content, you can help spread our message by rating and sharing. Together we can make a difference for the people and animals in our communities.

https://www.mydogismyhome.org/

https://www.hud.gov/press/press_releases_media_advisories/hud_no_22_253

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

Hi and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

2

This is your host Dr.

3

G and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

4

Today we have a great guest.

5

We have Christine Kim, the

founder of My Dog is My Home.

6

Welcome, Christine, and

welcome to the Junction.

7

Christine Kim: Thank you

so much for having me.

8

It's really nice to be here.

9

DrG: To start, can you let people know

where did your story begin and how did

10

it bring you to where you are today?

11

Christine Kim: Sure.

12

Absolutely.

13

, so let's see.

14

I guess my story begins with

my dog is my home way before my

15

dog is my home was ever formed.

16

Um, I am a social worker by training.

17

So I got my Master's in social work,

, in more of the macro side of things.

18

And so that means more of the

program development and policy end.

19

, But when I graduated from school,

like I think every good social

20

worker, , should have a little

bit of direct experience or direct

21

service experience under their belt.

22

, and I was very young and inexperienced,

to be honest, you know, fresh out of.

23

Graduate school with no real,

, professional work experience

24

minus my field education.

25

So I did spend a couple of

years, , doing case management

26

in housing and homeless services.

27

And I'm really grateful for it

because I spent some time in, , some

28

really innovative programs in

Philadelphia and in Los Angeles.

29

And in both of those places I was

working with, , the People who were

30

experiencing street homelessness

that were identified by the city

31

as the most vulnerable individuals.

32

So like they were what you would call

like, quote, treatment resistant or

33

housing resistant, and they were also

frequent users of emergency systems.

34

So you know, These were like the 50

to 100 people most likely to die out

35

on the streets if something didn't

change and they didn't receive some

36

sort of service that stuck with them.

37

Um, so they were in and out of

emergency rooms, in and out of jails,

38

in and out of emergency shelters,

and for whatever reasons, whatever

39

services they were receiving.

40

Through those traditional or

conventional homeless services

41

systems was not working for them.

42

And so they would very often

end up back out on the street

43

in very vulnerable conditions.

44

And so in Philadelphia, it was

called, I want to say it was like

45

Project 75 or something like that.

46

And then in Los Angeles, it was called

Project 50 and it was You know, relatively

47

new model at that time to just do whatever

it took to get these people off the

48

streets and into housing and they were

using the city was using what is Called

49

a housing first approach harm reduction.

50

Um, so that means that they were not

required to be sober or go through any

51

sort of transitional emergency shelter

system where they could prove after X

52

amount of time that they were housing

ready, and then they could move into

53

their own permanent housing unit.

54

Um, they didn't have

to show that they were.

55

working towards getting a full time job

or, , saving money or anything like that.

56

It was just take you as you are and put

you into permanent housing and provide

57

support to you within that housing

so that you can address other mental

58

health, substance use, or, you know,

health issues that you're experiencing

59

while you were already in your own home.

60

And it was , highly

controversial at that time.

61

It still is.

62

, but it worked.

63

It worked.

64

It really, really worked.

65

And so those 50 to 7500 people that

were identified as most vulnerable,

66

most likely to die out on the streets.

67

The vast majority of them did

stay in housing successfully.

68

, and it's from that mentality.

69

Actually, that my dog is my home grew

out of that experience as a social

70

worker in homeless services, because

while I was steeped in this practice

71

of removing barriers for people, kind

of doing whatever it took for them

72

to get into housing, there seemed

to be one rule that just did not,

73

um, that did not make it into this

housing first harm reduction mindset.

74

And that was, if you have a pet, okay.

75

We can't help you.

76

It's like, like, we'll remove

all the other barriers, right?

77

Like, you don't have to be sober.

78

You don't have to do this.

79

You don't have to do that.

80

But if you have a pet, like, sorry,

that's just something we can't manage.

81

And that's just so You know, saying

it out loud and saying it now after

82

so many years and looking back on it.

83

I'm like, that's just ridiculous.

84

Like, I can't believe that, um, that that

was the mentality back then and still

85

very pervasive to this day, like my

dog is my home has accomplished a lot.

86

And I think we've shifted the

conversation a lot and brought a lot of

87

awareness, but there's still a ton of

work to be done around removing this.

88

No pets allowed barrier.

89

Um, so anyway, re rewinding back to more

than 10 years ago, before my dog is my

90

home was started, I was in Los Angeles.

91

Young social worker, um,

working in one of these housing

92

first harm reduction programs.

93

And there was this client

that I had who, um, was.

94

Newly moved into his housing unit.

95

And in order to even qualify for

our program, you have to have been

96

homeless for more than a year.

97

You have to have, you know, you have to

be one of these highly vulnerable people.

98

So that that often means you have a lot of

other like co occurring conditions, right?

99

Um, so he had newly moved into his unit.

100

And, , I was You know, just starting

to build a relationship with him and

101

one day he, confides in me that he has

a dog, a small white miniature poodle

102

in his own apartment, by the way, you

know, it's not like a congregate shelter.

103

It's his own apartment.

104

And I'm like, Hey, I get it.

105

I'm an animal person.

106

I, you know, my, my cats and dog when

I was, , going through hard times,

107

like they're what pulled me through.

108

, we have a no pets allowed

rule, but , as far as I'm

109

concerned, I didn't see anything.

110

You know, I don't know anything.

111

And so he, he continued to live

in his unit and like sneak his

112

dog in and out of the building

to take the dog out for walks.

113

But, um, you know, in these

programs, there are often two, three,

114

Sides of, , two kinds of staff.

115

There's your social services staff, like

your social workers, case managers, , and

116

then you have your property management

staff, which are the folks who are,

117

you know, the landlords, essentially,

, The property management eventually

118

caught wind that there was a dog in

the unit, because you can't keep it a

119

secret forever, unfortunately, like,

they did catch him on camera, kind of

120

coming to and from his unit, walking

his dog, they, , heard some barking

121

one day, and when they found out, they

really, they really went in hard, like,

122

unreasonably hard, in my opinion, where

they said, , You are breaking the rules.

123

You have two options here.

124

You could either stay here

and get rid of your dog, or

125

you can get out with your dog.

126

, And that was such a hard thing for

this person to hear who had waited

127

so, you know, this person had

experienced tremendous hardship and

128

loss and trauma and had waited so

long to have a place of their own.

129

And in this system that

was created to support him.

130

In ending his homelessness and to

facilitate recovery, like here we were

131

trying to, , separate him from his

family member who had helped him cope

132

through all of all of those hardships

and me being on the social services side.

133

, I really pushed back on the

property management, like, to the

134

point where I almost lost my job.

135

Like, I was like, this isn't right.

136

You know, we can't do this and I

had to find, I was like looking for

137

solutions, you know, because the,

the, the rule in plain black and white

138

was that there were no pets allowed.

139

And so I went looking for solutions.

140

And I'm like, there's gotta be

some way to , figure this out.

141

Like they either have to bend the

rule or like we have, I don't know,

142

you know, there's gotta be something.

143

So eventually I, um, led this

client through what is known as the

144

reasonable accommodation process.

145

So, this client did have a disability

and his animal obviously, , provided

146

him with emotional support.

147

Even though the dog wasn't trained

to do anything specific, Just

148

through nature of being his companion

animal, , that dog provided with him

149

with emotional support and allowed him

to fully use and enjoy that dwelling.

150

Um, and so, , according to the Fair

Housing Act and the rules around

151

reasonable accommodation, we put in the

request and the property manager had to be

152

educated around their obligations, , under

the law to accommodate this person and

153

their animal, despite the no pets lateral.

154

And eventually we won, like this

person was able to stay with their dog.

155

And through all of that, like it

really opened my own eyes around

156

the challenges of people who are

trying to seek any type of service.

157

It doesn't have to be It

can be permanent housing.

158

It can be emergency shelter.

159

It can be access to a medical clinic

can be mental health services.

160

You know, if you are experiencing

homelessness and you have an animal

161

and you, you either have nowhere

to put that animal, or you're not

162

willing to separate from them, then

your options are just extremely

163

limited in trying to access services.

164

, so my dog is my home grew out of that

experience and, we really at first really.

165

We just wanted to tell the story, right?

166

Like what, what is happening?

167

Like, what is the gap in services?

168

And why is it there?

169

And what is the impact on people

experiencing homelessness with animals?

170

And then also we wanted to push

back on this idea that people

171

experiencing homelessness are

undeserving of animal companionship,

172

which is still very pervasive today.

173

Um, but that.

174

That initial project that we got

off the ground, , My Dog is My Home

175

Storytelling Exhibit, it really laid

the groundwork for the non profit

176

organization which exists today.

177

So 10 years ago, the My Dog is My

Home Storytelling Exhibition launched,

178

it opened in November of 2023, so

really 10 years ago, , and it opened

179

here in Hollywood, in Los Angeles.

180

, And that traveled around for a

couple of years and did really well.

181

And then at a certain point we decided

we need to take this to the next level.

182

Like the stories are fantastic

and they do a lot to educate

183

people and inspire people.

184

But there's always this lingering question

after people have been educated, like,

185

okay, now we know what the gap is.

186

What can we do about it?

187

And that's where my dog is my home.

188

The nonprofit really kicked into gear.

189

DrG: I am so glad that the story had a

happy ending because I'm listening to your

190

story and I am suffering here thinking oh

my god this guy ended up in the street or

191

he died or the dog got given away and I'm

like just waiting for you to say something

192

like that so I am so Excited that it ended

up well and that it is a good story behind

193

the inspiration behind the mission, right?

194

Like not everything has to be

this horrible thing happened.

195

So this is where we're at.

196

That is a, that is an amazing story

because yeah, I know that there are a lot

197

of people that abuse the whole emotional

support animal thing, but there are so

198

many people that do need their animals.

199

, you know, I work, I work all day, I come

home, and my cats are here to receive me,

200

right, like, judgment free, they're like,

I mean, yes, they're cats, so they're

201

like, feed me, and pet me, and, and be

my, be my person, , but, there's so much

202

to be said about the unconditional love

that the animals give you at the end of

203

the day, and you can talk to them, and

you can, even just petting them, , you

204

just feel relaxed, and feel, feel at

home, And actually, I really love the

205

name of your organization, My Dog Is

My Home, because it's kind of like the

206

heart is where the home is, and heart

is where my, or home is where the heart

207

is, home is where my dog is, right?

208

Christine Kim: Yeah, that's exactly right.

209

I mean, I'm so glad that you mentioned the

name and that you like it, because, um,

210

It's a, it's a little bit of a misnomer.

211

Like I love, I love our name too.

212

Um, but there are times when I'm like,

geez, maybe we should undergo like a

213

rebranding process or something like

that, because the, the name of it makes

214

it sound as though we're, um, like an

animal rescue organization, rescue and

215

adopt out dogs or something like that.

216

, and people don't understand right

off the bat that we are actually.

217

Almost entirely made up of people

from the human services side who like

218

really value that human animal bond.

219

Um, but thank you for saying,

for the positive feedback.

220

It really makes

221

DrG: me, yeah.

222

I loved it when, you know, I, I met you

at the, , found house, , open house.

223

With, , Garrett, who was a guest on

my podcast, , a few months ago, and I

224

really liked the name back then, because

again, it's kind of like wherever my dog

225

is, that's where home is, um, you know,

I feel about it with my cats, wherever

226

my cats are, that's where home is.

227

So I, I really love the name.

228

So my, my, my opinion,

keep it because it's gold.

229

Christine Kim: Ah, thank you.

230

DrG: Uh, but yeah, one of the, one of

the questions that people, you know, I

231

hate people that are judgmental because

nobody knows what they would do if they

232

were faced with a situation, right?

233

Like, it's really easy to say somebody

should do this or shouldn't do that.

234

When you've not been on their shoes,

but I guess the underlying question

235

is, why should a person experiencing

homelessness or poverty have a pet?

236

Christine Kim: Well, I think

the easy answer is that.

237

, The size of your paycheck, or whether

or not you have a literal home,

238

like a roof and four walls, , that

does not determine how much you love

239

your animal, or how devoted you are

to their care and their wellness.

240

, in fact, we see in studies that people

experiencing homelessness Take great

241

care of their animals and oftentimes

those animals are really well socialized

242

and there are some studies actually

that look at actual body condition

243

of the animals that end up in these

like street clinics, um, street vet

244

clinics, their body condition is great.

245

You know, um, I think people sacrifice

a great deal in order to care for their

246

animals and they often even feed their

animals before they feed themselves.

247

Um, so I think that.

248

Judging somebody immediately

based on their housing

249

situation is completely unfair.

250

, I also think that Homelessness and housing

insecurity is a lot closer to us than we

251

realize or than we are willing to admit.

252

Um, it's a very common experience across

all races and genders and age groups.

253

, even if you don't experience homelessness,

In the traditional way that people

254

think of homelessness like out in the

street or in your car, somebody, you

255

know, will experience homelessness or

some version of housing insecurity.

256

And if not somebody you directly

know, then someone who you know,

257

who they know, you know, like it's

not that far removed from you.

258

I think there were some recent

articles that had come out, trying

259

to quantify how many people are

actually like close, you know, living

260

on the edge of housing insecurity.

261

And, um, the statistic was very alarming.

262

It's like one in four Americans is just

a couple of paychecks away from, From

263

homelessness or housing and security

like one medical emergency or you know

264

some other some other disaster on that

same scale could put you out and those

265

things are really unpredictable like you

can't help it if you were hit by a car

266

one day or something to that effect um

and so the whole us and them mentality

267

I think is incorrect to begin with and

the fact of the matter is, , we are all

268

very close to homelessness and so many

of us have companion animals whom we love

269

and so putting yourself in the shoes of

somebody experiencing homelessness with

270

their companion animal like that could

very easily be you or someone you know.

271

DrG: I saw on the on your website that

about a discussion of a book called

272

My Dog Always Eats First and I think

that that's great because I have met

273

people that literally live by that.

274

, that they will feed their dogs,

feed their cats, feed their

275

animals before they eat themselves.

276

Sometimes they'll have to go to food

banks to take care of themselves,

277

sometimes they'll just have like ramen

or cereal or something just to make

278

sure that the animals are taken care of.

279

And that's something that, a lot of

people that are in better situations.

280

I don't know that they would consider

doing that, you know, like just

281

having their having their animal eat

first before before they do, but in

282

in the whole thing about judgment

is I even in what what I do, right?

283

My primary job is spaying and neutering.

284

Why?

285

Because I want to decrease the intake

of animals to shelters because I don't

286

think that the shelter overcrowding right?

287

Is the problem is the result of a problem.

288

The problem is the

increased number of animals.

289

So I think that, you know, with every

problem, there's there's always a

290

source and kind of with homelessness.

291

People are thinking of the homelessness

and the homeless person as the

292

problem, but that's not the problem.

293

That's the result of the problem,

whether it be, you know, a loss of

294

a job or, uh, you said mental health

disease or addiction, different problems.

295

That's the actual problem.

296

And then the homelessness is

the unfortunate result of it.

297

Christine Kim: Yes.

298

Um, completely.

299

I think what's also very important

for people to realize is that, um,

300

and there's a huge proportion of

people experiencing homelessness that

301

are made up of women and Children.

302

And the number one cause of

homelessness among women and

303

Children is domestic violence.

304

Um, so it's not that somebody has

some sort of moral failing and they

305

didn't manage to work hard enough

or save enough money or they were

306

irresponsible with their funds.

307

Like it's, um, it's a real social

problem that goes much that, you

308

know, where the moral failing kind

of mentality is just incorrect.

309

We also know that

housing and homelessness.

310

Like, the, the real underlying

issue is, beyond domestic violence,

311

is the lack of affordable housing.

312

There's just really not enough affordable

housing in order to curb homelessness.

313

And so we actually know

what the solution is.

314

It's affordable, supportive housing.

315

And it, it's kind of mind blowing to

say that there is such a clear solution

316

for what seems like a complex problem.

317

Um, but that is actually the case.

318

Like we, we know, you know, scholars

know and understand what the problem

319

is and that there, and there are

large scale models that show that if a

320

community invests in affordable housing

and actually housing their homeless

321

folks, like homelessness goes away.

322

DrG: Now, do you see a lot

of homeless people that resist

323

being moved into, into housing?

324

Like, are there people that just

prefer to just be in the streets?

325

Christine Kim: Um, it's a

tricky question to answer.

326

So that so yes, the answer to that is yes.

327

And that's because there are barriers to

housing and also significant trust that

328

needs to be built up in communities.

329

And, um, You know, in communities

that have suffered a lot of trauma and

330

are and people who are experiencing

homelessness because of systems that have,

331

um, that they feel have betrayed them.

332

so to address the barrier question,

you know, um, one of those barriers

333

is that no pets allowed rule.

334

And so.

335

Particularly out in California and some

of the West Coast states, you know,

336

there are 3 barriers that have been

identified, , that really stop people

337

from accessing emergency shelter or

other types of programs that would,

338

, successfully end their homelessness.

339

And those are partners,

possessions and pets.

340

So really, among the three top

barriers, pets is one of the big ones.

341

Um, so partners is, you know, that that

one sort of self explanatory, right?

342

Like, if a system is made for single

adults to serve single adults, but

343

somebody has a partner, even if they're

not married, um, they still don't

344

want to be separated from who they

perceive to be their family member.

345

It's their chosen family,

much like pets, right?

346

And so, um, the system needs to

accommodate that and figure out

347

how to serve those people together

or that family unit together.

348

The possessions issue, like, if they're

only allowed, you know, One bag of stuff.

349

, and they've been accustomed to carrying

around everything that they own, and

350

they don't want to leave their, you know,

even if the service provider perceives

351

it to be like dirty garbage, like they

don't want to leave that stuff out on

352

the streets, because that's all they own,

353

.

If that's all that is standing between a person and a safe place to sleep or

354

their own home, , take their stuff with

them, you know, like, just take their

355

stuff and learn how to deal with it.

356

And then, of course, there's the pets

issue, like, if all that's standing

357

between somebody and a place of their

own is their pet, like, Take their pet,

358

you know, like when you, when you boil

it down and you can really identify what

359

the big barriers are , it becomes much

clearer what we need to do to remove

360

those, um, those extraneous rules to

really end someone's homelessness.

361

DrG: And I, I get really annoyed

when people are like, well, I don't

362

want pets, like landlords say, I

don't want pets because they're going

363

to destroy the place or whatever.

364

And I think that children are more

destructive, even people in general, are

365

more destructive than animals even are.

366

Like, it's rare that you're going

to see animals that are just tearing

367

the place just to tear the place up.

368

So I think that there's a huge

misconception with landlords about

369

the reasons why they won't accept

pets or the ones that accept pets that

370

choose to have only certain breeds or

only small dogs and not large dogs.

371

I, I moved into an

apartment several years ago.

372

And I had this large Great

Dane, who's a couch potato.

373

And the landlord was like,

no, Great Danes are dangerous.

374

I was like, are you kidding me?

375

First, no, they're not.

376

But second, you've never met my dog.

377

My dog is not an aggressive dog.

378

My dog is a blood donor.

379

My dog loves everybody.

380

And they were like, no, it's not.

381

It's not acceptable because it's a big

dog and we perceive it as a danger.

382

So, I mean, it's very.

383

Breedist of some of these landlords,

uh, and I don't know, they're, they're

384

barriers made for no, no solid reason.

385

Christine Kim: Yeah, I agree.

386

And that's why my dog is my home really

loves to showcase examples of programs,

387

either whether they be emergency

shelters or housing, permanent housing

388

developments that , um, that exist to

serve people experiencing homelessness.

389

Like, what are the programs that

are actually inclusive of pets?

390

Like all different kinds without

the weight restriction or the breed

391

restriction and how's it going for

them and there are model programs

392

that have been doing this for a

really long time, like a decade

393

or longer, and they don't have.

394

The problems that, like, the landlords

are making up in their brains about,

395

like, every dog attacking every child

and, you know, like, their, their unit

396

being in shambles and things like that,

um, and so it's really important work

397

for us to be able to, , shine a light

on the programs that have taken the

398

risk, the step forward and the risk,

honestly, and then to show that, you

399

know, it's not going to end soon.

400

The, the world is not going to end if you

start allowing dogs into your program.

401

And in fact, it can really enrich the

services that you provide because now

402

you're providing the safe place for

a person and their animal and it is

403

trauma informed because you're taking

into account like that they need that

404

animal to cope with their trauma.

405

, But also I wanted to touch on

something that you said in that like.

406

It's breedist really for landlords and

housing developers to have rules around

407

like we will accept, you know, small

dogs under 35 pounds, but we won't accept

408

this like a gentle giant of a great Dane

that just sits on the couch all day.

409

Um, there, there is this growing

discussion in animal welfare and

410

specifically in the pet inclusive

housing movement, drawing that

411

connection between breed restrictions

and racism and, you know.

412

What what that connection is and what

it boils down to, like, when you strip

413

away all the academic language and the

jargon, um, and all the statistics and

414

numbers, which is all very important.

415

Of course, like, I value the academic

discussion, but what it really comes

416

down to is that, low income people of

color with certain types of large dogs.

417

Just cannot find places to

live, and that is racism.

418

DrG: Yeah, no, absolutely.

419

I mean, again, it's like we, we're

taking groups, whether it be groups of

420

people or groups of animals, and we're

just judging them as a group instead

421

of judging as individuals, which we

all should be judged as individuals.

422

So, , when did My Dog is My Home get

started, um, and where did you start from?

423

Christine Kim: Yeah, we just celebrated

our 10 year anniversary, or I should say

424

we We kicked off our 10 year anniversary

celebration, um, because it was at this

425

time in 2013, , that our My Dog is My Home

storytelling exhibit launched out of, , a

426

small museum in Los Angeles called the

National Museum of Animals and Society.

427

And that was the beginning of my dog is

my home really the storytelling exhibit.

428

, and then in 2016, we incorporated

as a nonprofit in New York City.

429

And so we have 2 flagship locations.

430

We started in Los Angeles with our

storytelling, and then we incorporated

431

as a nonprofit in New York City.

432

And that's.

433

Those are still the two places where

we have the most presence and, um,

434

the two places where we are digging

our heels in the hardest because

435

those are also the two places that

have the largest homeless population.

436

And so we think that if we can transform

or see progress in these two systems,

437

which we are, then these are model

places for the rest of the country.

438

DrG: California and New York.

439

Are you still only in those places or

have you spread out to other locations?

440

Christine Kim: We work

wherever we, we are invited.

441

So we're national in scope.

442

Um, we have projects in various

locations and have worked in various

443

locations across the United States.

444

, and so where we actually

met, um, we, we love Ohio.

445

Um, we recently had an open house in

Cincinnati, Ohio, and we also spent some

446

time, um, In Toledo several years ago,

working closely with Dr Janet Hoyt Gerlock

447

and the University of Toledo, . And it's

sort of by invitation, if there is a

448

community that is not Los Angeles or New

York City that shows that there's some

449

readiness to explore this issue, , and

there's somebody there who's really

450

interested in having us come and talk with

them or to work with them on a project.

451

We will go there.

452

Absolutely.

453

Like, we think it's important to

show that, pet friendly policies and

454

homeless services works in many different

communities and at many different scales

455

and it's also really, really, it can be

customized based on what that community

456

needs because no two communities are

alike and they have different needs.

457

, and so we are very adaptable and we

travel to wherever we are invited to work.

458

DrG: I love it sounds

like cultural competence.

459

I love that.

460

I love the term cultural competence I

use it whenever I can, because I think

461

that people miss on the fact that you

have to be aware of the needs of every

462

individual location and community

that you're going to so that you can

463

properly address their needs, right?

464

Not be like, I'm here and I'm going

to help you with what I think you

465

need more, you tell me what you need.

466

And then here are the resources.

467

Christine Kim: Right.

468

Yes.

469

Yeah, exactly.

470

And I think for the most part,

communities hate it when you're like,

471

well, this thing works in, you know,

over here and they're like, well,

472

that's great, but we're not over there.

473

DrG: And one of the things when you

know when we were talking with Garrett

474

about what found house does, which is

an amazing program, but they are kind

475

of like the boots on the ground, they're

actually dealing with the individuals

476

and they're providing the housing,

and then that's not what you guys do.

477

You guys do more of the support

of organizations like that.

478

So how would, how do you work

with these groups to provide them

479

the resources that they need?

480

Um, I, I believe that you call

it to build their capacity.

481

Christine Kim: Yeah, that's right.

482

I'm really glad you brought that up

because there's always some confusion

483

around, , the work of My Dog is My

Home, and even though it seems pretty

484

straightforward when we say, like, we

exist to increase access to shelter

485

and housing for people experiencing

homelessness with pets, so then we always

486

have to further, further elaborate that

we are not The direct service providers,

487

we are not directly operating the

shelter or the housing program for the

488

people, , and having it be pet friendly.

489

We are working to transform that system.

490

So we're working with the existing.

491

Providers of emergency shelter and

housing to transition them to or

492

to help them help support them in

adopting those pet friendly policies.

493

, so it's, it, it takes the shape of a lot

of different, in a lot of different ways.

494

, so one thing is just

plain and pure education.

495

, just letting them know that.

496

There are pet friendly programs that exist

already and that have been doing this

497

for a long time, goes a really long way.

498

, you'd be surprised at how many programs

just think it's absolutely impossible.

499

And then when they find out that

there are programs that have been

500

doing this, they're like, Oh, okay,

so it's not impossible, that's great.

501

Um, and then being able to

share, um, we're not at a point.

502

Right now where we can say we have

best practices in co sheltering

503

people and animals together because

there just isn't enough like program

504

evaluation and research, but there

are these like emerging and promising

505

practices and we can share with them

what those are and, um, even put

506

them in touch with the providers that

have been doing it for a long time.

507

Um, kind of.

508

Give them the national view of what

we've seen in different places or in

509

different programs so that they can

pick and choose what works for them.

510

Um, so that's on the education side.

511

There's another piece of it.

512

That is about plugging

them into the network.

513

Um, so, and of course, all of these types

of programs overlap with each other.

514

You know, they're never a clear

cleanly in their own silos.

515

But we hold these we hold these

events called open houses.

516

, and that's really about showcasing a

model and then bringing the community

517

together to learn from that host site.

518

So, for example, in Cincinnati, we

partnered with a really wonderful

519

nonprofit called found house, and

they operate a day shelter and, um,

520

a brand new permanent , supportive

housing site that houses about I'm

521

going to say about 30 families or so.

522

, and both their day shelter and

their permanent supportive housing,

523

, building is completely pet inclusive.

524

And so what we did with found house.

525

was, , we, we opened up their facility

and we invited other providers of

526

shelter and permanent housing that are

in that local area to come in and like

527

learn from their model and, and be like,

Hey, like, not only is it possible,

528

but like you can see day to day how

it operates and you can learn from the

529

people who operate it day to day, like

what it actually takes and what the

530

real challenges are versus like the.

531

The fake ones that are made up in people's

minds, you know, um, and then with that

532

network, you know, people are able to

share with each other what's going on.

533

Like, are they, are they

implementing co sheltering?

534

Are they taking the next steps?

535

What problems are they running into?

536

, Also, another nice thing about

that network is that we're bringing

537

together sort of the animal folks

and the human services folks and

538

that partnership is really necessary

for co sheltering to be successful.

539

, so that.

540

That network and those partnerships

kind of form organically when we bring

541

those those partners together or those

organizations together at our open houses.

542

So there's the network piece.

543

And then there's the more like nitty

gritty technical assistance piece.

544

And that's where we provide that.

545

That one to one support more, more

intensively to a single organization.

546

So if the education piece, if the network

piece, , if those things are not enough

547

for a program to feel like they are ready

to take the next step, my dog is my home.

548

can be there to support them

more intensively through

549

like customized training.

550

We can even weigh in on a policy

that they're trying to develop.

551

We can also try to, , help build out

their, their resource library so that

552

in the event that an animal comes in

and does need a veterinary checkup or

553

a rabies, you know, shot or something,

um, we can identify like, oh, this

554

partner would be good for that.

555

Like let's, let's build that

relationship and have you two connect.

556

Um, so those are.

557

Some of the ways in which my

dog is my home builds capacity.

558

DrG: A few weeks ago.

559

I, I spoke with Dr.

560

Michael Blackwell and we were talking

about the importance of one health

561

and we were discussing about the, the

importance of the veterinarian and being

562

part of family practice medicine, right?

563

So you have the pediatrician,

you have the, family doctor for

564

the adults, and then you have the

veterinarian for the animals because

565

everybody is part of a family.

566

And I really like that that approach.

567

And he was saying that the the problem

is that there is a need for systems

568

that we are lacking systems and

that we need to find these systems.

569

And I saw that that's part of

what you are proposing as well

570

is just developing systems.

571

So what what systems do you feel

that we are lacking and, and that

572

we are we need to be moving towards?

573

Christine Kim: Yeah, I mean much like Dr.

574

Blackwell, I think housing is

very much applicable to that One

575

Health model or like we can think

of it in the same One Health way.

576

I know for.

577

For public health folks, or maybe I'm

painting to with a too broad of a brush,

578

but like I hear people talk about one

health a lot in terms of like large

579

scale, you know, like like zoonotic

diseases and things that travel between

580

people and animals in the environment.

581

And I think if you apply it on

like a really micro scale to the

582

individual, um, this fits very much

within the One Health framework.

583

So we're talking about an individual

person and their animal and the home that

584

they live in or like the lack of a home.

585

Um, so still, it's still, you

know, Person's health, animal

586

health, environmental health,

person, animal, environment.

587

Um, and that system very

much needs to change.

588

So I'm talking about the

homeless services system.

589

And encouraging that system to understand

animals as a part of the family unit.

590

, and that people and animals

need to stay together.

591

Um, and if we're talking about person

centered, holistic services that

592

are trauma informed, like A hundred

percent, they should be thinking about

593

animals as a part of that system.

594

DrG: Yeah, he mentioned about if a

social worker is not thinking about

595

the animal part of that family,

they're not doing their job, right?

596

Like, basically, you know, you're, you're

trying to help this family with whatever

597

issues they have, but you are neglecting

the, the animal part of the family.

598

Then, you know, that perhaps there's more

education needed in the, , in the system

599

to be able to, to approach the,

the true entire health needs of

600

the, of the family as a unit.

601

Christine Kim: Yeah, I agree.

602

I think, , there's much more education

now around animals, , animals and

603

social work, broadly speaking.

604

, I think it has not been a part of

traditional social work education,

605

and now we're seeing, , Definitely a

broadening of that understanding, , but

606

still there are only a handful of

schools that really teach that or

607

even have like a couple of electives

that address animals and social work.

608

And so some of the big programs are like

the University of Tennessee, where Dr.

609

Blackwell is, of course, right?

610

So the University of Tennessee's

veterinary social work program is amazing.

611

Um, University of Denver's School of

Social Work, their, their human animal

612

interaction program is also amazing.

613

And then there are a couple of other

places that really have taken up

614

that, that mantle and run with it.

615

Um, and it's a very exciting time to

be a social worker that is interested

616

in also like seeing animals as a part

of that system, because there's more

617

education than ever before about,

you know, that human animal bond.

618

DrG: And there's so much room to grow.

619

And it like, it's almost like.

620

Sky's the limit right now because there,

there's so much, so many opportunities.

621

I work with a lot of rural communities.

622

, and I do work with some groups

that primarily help homeless

623

people or, , individuals that

are, , house insecure and it's.

624

You know, I look at them with, yes,

we're bringing you spay and neuter

625

services, or we're bringing you, you

know, a rabies vaccine or whatever,

626

but in the grand scheme of things, am

I helping you, like, yes, I'm helping

627

you not have more puppies, but you're

still going to have issues feeding your

628

pet or treating your pet for fleas,

which your pet has fleas, you have

629

fleas, you know, like that zoonotic

component and, and just the, um, Yeah.

630

The concern of people with an injured

sick animal that then that's going

631

to cause depression and anxiety.

632

And we have to start thinking even

people that don't like animals.

633

They need to understand the importance

of the animals for that person.

634

So you may not like dogs and that's fine.

635

You don't have to have a dog,

but you need to understand the

636

relationship and how that helps.

637

Physical health.

638

I know that there was research recently

about how owning an animal decreases

639

the risk of heart disease, heart

attacks, diabetes, obesity, and then

640

from a mental health perspective.

641

It's so good for people that are isolated

from society, but yet they have an animal

642

to, to give them a reason to wake up, you

know, like a reason to get something done.

643

Perhaps that reason to get a job,

that reason to try to find something

644

as opposed to just giving up

because it's just for themselves.

645

Right.

646

You also work with advocacy work.

647

And I know that you are very

involved with the PUPPs Act.

648

So can you describe what the PUPPs Act is?

649

Christine Kim: Yes, the PUP Act is,

it's an acronym, it start, it stands

650

for Providing for Unhoused People

with Pets Act, so P U P P Act, , and

651

it was introduced for the second

652

Congress, Congressman Crow, , out

of Colorado and, , three other,

653

.

, members of, , of Congress, , Adam Schiff, Nancy Mace and Brian Fitzpatrick.

654

So when it was introduced, it was, uh, and

it still is, of course, a bipartisan bill.

655

, and what it does in essence is it creates

a 5 million dollar fund per fiscal

656

year from 2024 through 2028, , to be

administered by the USDA in consultation

657

with housing and urban development.

658

So on the federal level, this pool

of money would be available to,

659

um, providers of emergency shelter

and permanent supportive housing to

660

expand their animal accommodations.

661

So it's a fund that is supporting

homeless services programs, shelters

662

and housing, , to have, you know, animal

components to their program by either,

663

, acquiring or rehabbing or retrofitting

property for animal housing, , to pay

664

for the veterinary or training , , needs

for animals, , or to pay for the

665

training of staff and volunteers, , in

order for them to run these programs

666

that co shelter or co house people

experiencing homelessness with their pets.

667

And that would be.

668

a huge, like a huge development in

this movement to co shelter and co

669

house people and animals together.

670

It's modeled off of a really

successful program and legislation

671

in the state of California.

672

, it's called the pet assistance and

support program, or that's what it

673

turned into once the law was passed.

674

, and the pet assistance and support program

was, Very similarly, a fund that was,

675

, administered by the state's department

of, , housing and community development.

676

And it did the same thing, except

it was only for emergency shelters.

677

It paid for emergency shelters to be able

to have like this animal component to

678

their, to their homelessness programs,

to their emergency shelter programs.

679

And Over two cycles of funding, they

distributed the state distributed

680

15 million worth of funds to various

emergency shelters across the state in

681

order to remove that barrier that no pets

allowed barrier because now, you know,

682

we're pulling out of the stops here.

683

We need to remove this barrier.

684

We need to get people off the street.

685

And it was hugely successful.

686

There was there were way more

applicants for that money.

687

Then there was actually

money to go around.

688

So like clearly the homeless services

programs understood the value of this and

689

like wanted that because if their goal is

to end homelessness and to remove barriers

690

so that people can access their programs,

they're like, oh yeah, we, we need that.

691

Um, so now this is on the

federal level, not just for one

692

state, but on the federal level.

693

And we're really, really hopeful, , that

it passes because our strategy is

694

to , have this be a part of the farm

bill and the farm bill only comes up

695

every so many years for renegotiation.

696

, and so we are really trying to

seize the opportunity now, , to

697

have this pass, , and to have this

be a part of the farm bill package.

698

DrG: I think it's, it's cool that it's

bipartisan, because, , this is one

699

of those things, , animal welfare,

especially companion animal welfare,

700

seems to transcend political barriers.

701

So it doesn't matter which side you're on.

702

you may agree and disagree with, with

different things as far as ownership,

703

but in the end, everybody feels that

people's animals need to be taken care of.

704

Christine Kim: Yeah, I agree.

705

I, I know, um, people have a lot of

feelings about Congress right now,

706

it seems like a hot mess, but I think

there's still some hope to be had.

707

, I agree with you that companion animal

welfare is still one of those things

708

that, , people can reach across the aisle

and, like, agree to work on something.

709

DrG: So, one of the things that also

you mentioned on the, on your site

710

is that you guys do, like, research.

711

So, what kind of research do

you, uh, do you work with?

712

Christine Kim: Yeah, um, this was

something that was really important

713

to my dog is my home when we first

launched because we were always

714

getting asked, like, how big is this

problem really, you know, like, there

715

was a scope question, , because.

716

Like, we had to do a lot of convincing of

programs that this was a legitimate issue,

717

, and we didn't have a great answer for them

at that point, like, counting the number

718

of people experiencing homelessness,

period, is like a very difficult research

719

question, , and then understanding from

that, , Who among people experiencing

720

homelessness has a companion animal

is also like, that's very difficult.

721

, but among the existing tools that

we have to measure homelessness We

722

are advocating for those research

tools or those data collection tools

723

to include questions about animal

companions , and we've been successful

724

in a couple of different places.

725

There was a study that came out

a couple of years ago in Los

726

Angeles that, , used what, what is

known as the point in time count.

727

It's an annual count of people

experiencing homelessness and

728

every community has to do it.

729

That's a, that's a federally mandated

thing that every community has to do.

730

, so in Los Angeles, , if there's this,

, and in any community, but you know,

731

the study took place in Los Angeles.

732

If there's this annual count of people

experiencing homelessness already,

733

like, why not just add a question?

734

Like, do you have a pet, you know,

to that to that existing survey?

735

And so they did.

736

And, um, the results from

that are really interesting.

737

They took an average over three

years, , of asking that question.

738

And I think the average came out to about

12 percent of people experiencing street

739

homelessness did have a pet, , and.

740

And so it's not, it's also interesting

that it's like, not the huge numbers that

741

people are thinking, you know, so I think

one fear that programs have is that if

742

they start allowing clients to bring in

their dogs and cats and other companion

743

animals, like it's just going to be an

utter zoo in their complete chaos, right?

744

And it's like, no, you know, we're talking

about like 12 percent of people here.

745

It's not going to be.

746

What you think it is.

747

, and then there are also questions around.

748

So outside of counting and like

understanding how many people experiencing

749

homelessness have companion animals.

750

, we want to really dig into research

on What programs and policies and

751

standard operating procedures exist

and what works well, and, , what

752

is the impact or outcomes of those

programs and policies and SOP's?

753

Um, so there was some research that was

done, in partnership between My Dog

754

is My Home and the Animals in Society

Institute years ago that looked at four

755

different programs that are inclusive

of people and their animals in shelter.

756

And we looked at, you know, like, what are

the practices, and just documenting them.

757

That was really the goal of the research.

758

And then After having documented some

of those, practices and procedures,

759

we hope that we can do more of that,

but we also hope to go beyond that

760

where we can start evaluating those

programs and understand like what is

761

the impact and what's working well.

762

We just really want to push the

conversation to the point where

763

we have best practices that we can

promote, which we don't have right now.

764

DrG: Yeah, I like that because I'm a,

I'm a numbers nerd, like I love research.

765

And I think that it's really

important when you're starting to

766

know what your start point is and

then be able to, to demonstrate how

767

your program is changing things.

768

So that especially if you're

going to have people that are

769

going to be investing into it.

770

And, supporting they can see, okay,

this is where, where my grants are

771

going like this is how we are changing.

772

And then that also inspires other

locations to be able to do similar

773

things or, you know, they, they may

think they may be in a rut and feel

774

like there's nothing I can do about it.

775

And then they hear or they see the

research and they're like, Hey, maybe

776

there is something that we can do.

777

Christine Kim: Yep, exactly.

778

That's that's the goal.

779

DrG: I think that your program is amazing.

780

And I really appreciate you taking the

time to be here and tell us about it.

781

The story that started it

all is super inspiring.

782

And I'm hoping that if anybody is

listening that works in the human health

783

field, and is interested in this kind of

work, that they take the plunge and do

784

it because going to that open house and

seeing the people that live there, and

785

seeing how appreciative they are, and how

something so small changes their lives.

786

I mean, that's, that's it.

787

I mean, you can't, you can't get

more job, how you say, like, loving

788

what you do better than that.

789

Is there anything, anything that we

have forgotten to let people know or

790

anything else that you want to share?

791

Christine Kim: Yes, um, so My Dog is

My Home has an annual conference and

792

our next conference is March of 2024.

793

, we just released the dates.

794

Registration is not open yet, but

we do have to save the date out.

795

So please save the date for March

796

, the early bird registration is going

to open in December, but if you're

797

interested at all in this topic

and you want to learn more, , and

798

even if you are like a complete.

799

Newcomer to the topic, like we have

tons of content that reaches people

800

across the different experience

levels and also different roles.

801

, one of the things that we really pride

ourselves in is we just bring people

802

together no matter what profession they

are, , no matter what title they hold

803

at the organizations that they work at.

804

, this is something that

we can all get behind.

805

And it's super important that like we

have multidisciplinary partnerships.

806

, And so.

807

check it out.

808

We would love to see people

join us for the conference.

809

, and then also if you're a listener

in Ohio, we are going back to Ohio.

810

Um, sometimes summer of 2024.

811

So, um, earlier, I had mentioned that

we just had our 10 year anniversary

812

celebration kickoff in New York City, and

it's a it's a full year of celebration.

813

So we kicked off in New

York City will be in L.

814

A.

815

In February, but We'll be in Cincinnati

again in the summer of 24 doing

816

another open house and then our 10 year

anniversary celebration back to back.

817

So hopefully I get to meet some cool

listeners of yours that are based in Ohio.

818

DrG: Fantastic.

819

I'm looking forward to it.

820

I'll be there.

821

And that is a conference

online or is it in person?

822

Christine Kim: Oh, it's online.

823

The conference is online

and very accessible.

824

, and there are also tons of

scholarships available in case we,

825

you know, we just accessibility.

826

That's like a key concept

for my dog is my home.

827

, and so we don't want cost to

stand in the way of anyone

828

who's interested in learning.

829

, so scholarships, it's online.

830

And then also, you know, if you have a

reasonable accommodation request, we would

831

be happy to accommodate that as well.

832

DrG: So for any anybody that's

listening that is interested in

833

getting information about your program.

834

What's your website, and what's the

best way to, to learn more about how you

835

help, , groups get these things set up?

836

Christine Kim: Yeah,

well, our website is www.

837

mydogismyhome.

838

org.

839

And if you run a program, , in homeless

services or in animal welfare, and

840

you're interested in, like, exploring

taking the next step or supporting

841

a co sheltering program or anything

like that, , you can always reach

842

me at christine@mydogismyhome.org.

843

DrG: Fantastic.

844

Well, thank you so much for sharing your

story and sharing all this information.

845

And again, for the work that

you're doing, because it is so

846

important, , to just help our

community and the dogs that live in it.

847

So, um, so keep up the great work.

848

And thank you for being here

and I will see you next year.

849

And for everybody that is

listening, thank you for listening

850

and thank you for caring.

851

Christine Kim: Well, thank

you so much for having me.