In this episode, Marylayo is with guest, Richard (Junior) Asomaning, who shares his experience of having a brother diagnosed with autism.  

Discussion points include:

• What are some of the signs/traits of Autism?
• How did your brother come to be diagnosed with autism?
• Did you ever feel overlooked in your family due to the focus on your brother’s needs?
• Were there specific challenges you faced growing up that you attribute to having a sibling with autism? How did you deal with them?
• As you’ve both grown older, in what ways has your relationship with your brother evolved over the years?
• What are the misconceptions or stereotypes about autism that you’ve encountered?
• Are there any specific strengths or unique qualities that you admire or appreciate in your brother? 
• Are there any general concerns that you have related to your brother having autism
• How do you deal with those concerns?
• How has this experience shaped you as a person?
• Has there been anything along your journey that you found really helpful?
• Bible verse to support spiritual wellbeing.

Take a moment to delve into what may be 'beyond the smile' - listen in to the conversation.

Marylayo's spiritual wellbeing tip: Meditate on the bible scripture Deuteronomy 31:8.

Connect with MaryLayo:

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For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.

1

Marylayo: Welcome to Marylayo Talks, a podcast

that discusses mental health and spiritual

2

well being.

3

Before we jump in, there may be episodes that

4

are particularly sensitive for some listeners.

5

And if that applies, then I hope you'll be

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able to join me whenever you feel ready and

able.

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In today's episode, I'm with guest Richard

asomaning and we're talking about autism.

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Richard shares with me his experience of

having his brother Daniel diagnosed with

9

autism and how he grew to accept the

challenges as well as the joys that comes with

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it.

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Let's listen in.

12

Okay, Junior.

13

So I know that a lot of people would have

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heard of autism.

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They've got a general understanding in terms

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of what autism is, but I know it's a spectrum.

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So can you tell me what are some of the signs,

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the traits when it comes to autism?

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Richard: I think it will vary from each

person's experience because what I've learned

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with autism is you've got the really mild form

and you've got the severe.

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From my experience, especially with Daniel,

signs and traits that we kind of picked up

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quite early on was a delay in milestones as an

infant, e. G. Him taking his time to stand up,

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to crawl, to walk, to speak and so forth.

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But also, even as he got a bit older, just in

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terms of how he would engage with his eye

contact and just a lack of focus or a lack of

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concentration when doing something.

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So given that Daniel's one was quite mild, it

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was still, if I could say, foreign to us as a

family because he was the first among myself

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and my siblings to be diagnosed with it.

30

Marylayo: And so how then did the diagnosis

come?

31

Because you mentioned about how you started

noticing that delay with certain things that

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you would expect during his development.

33

How did that lead then for something to

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actually happen?

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Richard: The older he got, the more worried we

became with his development.

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So, for instance, I think with Daniel, he only

started to walk, probably at free.

37

And even his speech, we was quite concerned at

the delay.

38

We thought, okay, he's not even saying the

quote unquote basics.

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And it was through.

40

There's this place in Kennington, I believe

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it's called Mary Sheridan, where there's

occupational therapists and so forth.

42

And it was through that appointment where he

was diagnosed.

43

But in the lead up to that, we'd gone to

various appointments.

44

We would hear the usual, oh, some people, some

kids take longer than others and so forth.

45

But again, I think signs began to rear its

head when he started nursery, because even

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when he started nursery, he still wasn't

making the progress that we'd hoped so.

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Even when it came to his interaction with

other kids, we found that to be.

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It wasn't bad or anything.

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We just found him to.

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He was very isolated.

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It's like he didn't want to engage with the

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other kids at all.

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And it was something that the nursery staff

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picked up quite early on, to be fair to them.

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And naturally, we're still hoping, no, he'll

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come round, he'll get better and better.

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But the older he got, literally as he was

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about to turn four, was when I believe the

diagnosis came about roughly.

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Marylayo: And would you say that was more of a

relief or not?

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Was it like a double edged sword?

In one sense, it's like, okay, you now know

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there's that confirmation rather than

wondering at the back of your mind and hoping

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for something else and therefore you can move

on.

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Richard: Exactly.

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But it's also that refusal to accept that he's

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got it, because, again, he was the first.

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And it was like how.

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And at that time, we didn't know much about

autism, myself included.

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We were all fairly ignorant of it.

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And when he was diagnosed, we then immediately

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had fears of, how's he going to grow up?

Is he ever going to speak?

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What about schooling?

All these questions began to rear its head.

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So it was a relief to know, okay, that there's

an underlying reason why things have been this

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way.

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But it was more like, yeah, it wasn't what we

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wanted to hear.

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Basically.

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Marylayo: Of course, I'm going to turn it a

little bit more about then you as in terms of

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as a family, you got that news, and you're

already talking about being ignorant when it

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came to autism.

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So how then did you feel as an individual, as

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I guess, a young teenager?

How did you grow in terms of that acceptance,

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if you have accepted it?

And how was the family dynamics as a whole

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when it came to that transition?

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Richard: So for me, I must have been probably

15 or maybe 15, going 16 at the time.

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And it was heartbreaking, I'll be very honest.

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At the time, for me personally, it was like,

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wow, it was heartbreaking for me.

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But I also felt heartbreak for my mom.

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In a weird way.

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I also felt heartbreak or sympathy for Daniel

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as well, because it's like he's the last born

and this has happened.

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So I'll be very honest.

93

At the initial stage, there was this hope that

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we hope it's not going to be really severe, we

hope he's going to be able to speak and so

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forth.

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So I suppose with Daniel, the older he got,

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the more we realized how mild his autism was.

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And that was, we found that to be comfort.

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And that was a form of comfort for us because

again, in my ignorance, whenever I thought of

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autism at the time, it was always the severe,

always making noise, et cetera, et cetera.

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And initially, I thought, wow, this is new for

us.

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But to our relief, as he gotten older and as

he began to speak, as he began to engage, as

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delayed as it was, it did fill us with hope

that, you know what?

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He is going to speak.

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He is going to end up speaking.

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He is going to be able to engage, interact,

learn, and so forth.

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And with Daniel, he's just gone from strength

to strength, because if you speak to him now,

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although you can pick it up as you're speaking

to him generally, he's a very sociable person.

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He's easy to understand.

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He's got great energy.

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He's very enthusiastic, and he himself has

embraced it as well as part of who he is.

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But he doesn't let it faze him or he doesn't

look at it in distaste, or he's never anxious

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or anything about it.

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Marylayo: That's good to hear.

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So were there any specific challenges that you

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faced growing up that you can attribute to

having, like, a sibling with autism?

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It could be linked to the misconceptions that

people have, the stereotypes.

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What are the typical kind of things that

you've encountered that, you know is down to

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your brother with autism?

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Richard: One of the early things was telling

my friends, but also introducing Daniel to my

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friends.

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So, for example, maybe if I'm picking him up

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from nursery or me and him are walking to

McDonald's or something, and I see my friend

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or my friends or whatever, at the time, at the

early phase, it was, how are they going to

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react to him?

How are they going to take to him?

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How are people in public going to take to him?

Are they going to look at him funny?

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I had all these feelings and all these fears

and concerns, but thankfully, it was the

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complete opposite.

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And my friends were very understanding.

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They acknowledged him.

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They embraced him for who he is.

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So that was a big relief.

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But I would say generally when I'm walking

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with Daniel or when I was walking with him,

maybe to school or from nursery or whatever,

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it was just things like, okay, this is just

normal to me.

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I'm walking, but how are people going to

interact?

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Are people going to stare at him?

Are people going to.

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I just felt very uneasy being with him in

public.

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And even, I'll tell you what, even bringing

him to church as well, how people will engage

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with him how people will see him no matter

where we went, whatever public setting it was.

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I've always had that underlying concern or

worry that I hope people don't treat him

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different or treat him in a weird way and so

forth.

143

Marylayo: Would you say, like you mentioned

about when you would meet your friends, let's

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just say walking down the street, did they

know that Daniel had autism beforehand?

145

Okay.

146

And so I guess how they reacted, given that

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they knew, was a pleasant surprise for.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Richard: Because more importantly, they didn't

treat him different.

151

Marylayo: Right. Okay. And then over time, I'm

hearing from you that it changed in terms of

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you being concerned about what others were

thinking.

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Is it just because I don't know what changed

for you?

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Richard: I think at the back of all the root

of my initial concerns, it all honestly stems

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back to my ignorance growing up when it came

to attitudes towards autism.

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Because I can recall in my ignorance, when I

was in primary school and we had a section for

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children with autism, and even as a child I

thought, okay, this is a bit weird, this is

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strange.

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They need help, all these ignorant claims.

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So to have experienced it myself was

definitely humbling, for one.

161

But in terms of overcoming it through time, it

was Daniel's strength of character to be

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himself and to freely be himself.

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But for me, also gradually allowing him to be

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himself.

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Because in the early phase, if he's doing

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something which someone might consider

abnormal, I would be like, daniel, stop doing

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that.

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Do you know what I mean?

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And I had to sort of overcome that and allow

him to be himself, allow him to be free.

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And that helped.

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Marylayo: I mean, that makes sense because I

can imagine in the earlier phases or time it

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was you probably trying to restrain him.

173

And then after a while you realize that, you

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know, what?

Let him be.

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And is that you giving yourself a self talk at

a certain point in time?

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Richard: Definitely.

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But it wasn't even just know.

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For instance, I wasn't the only one who would

tell him, Daniel, stop doing know.

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My mum would do the same.

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I would say, looking back, it was probably.

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It could have been my sister Frida who was,

you know, just let him do what he's doing.

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It's fine, it's fine.

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You don't need to try to police him or

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anything like, you know, the more she'd done

that, the more I began to understand and also

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adopt the same approach.

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Marylayo: And I would imagine that would have

been liberating for both you and Daniel.

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Richard: Yeah, definitely.

188

Marylayo: So I'm just wondering about how

there might be scenarios or situations where

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people have got children.

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One of which has autism and the other child

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doesn't.

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And then because the parent's focus is on the

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child with autism, because of their needs, the

other child may feel perhaps overlooked or be

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trying to seek attention.

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And I'm just wondering if that's something

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that resonates with you at the time.

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Richard: No, I think for me, I might have felt

that way if I was younger, if he'd been born a

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couple of years before.

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I think when Daniel was born, I was 13.

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I, at that point was like, I'm no longer going

to be a mommy's boy.

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I'm a teenager now.

202

I'm going to try and do my thing.

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So when Daniel came for me, I adopted the

mindset of, okay, how can I help my mum?

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How can I be more hands on and supporting her

to look after him?

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So my mom was saying I was quite good in that

regard, to be fair, I wasn't necessarily in

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need of.

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I didn't feel jealous or like my space had

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been taken.

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No, sure.

210

Marylayo: So how old is Daniel now, if I can

ask?

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Richard: Daniel's 18. He just turned 18.

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Marylayo: So he's an older teenager?

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Richard: Yeah. He's a big man.

214

Marylayo: So how would you say that your

relationship with him has evolved over the

215

years?

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Richard: Do you know what?

I don't know if it's just that little brother

217

thing or that big brother thing where you're

always protective, but I think with Daniel, I

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am always going to be overprotective around

him.

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It's just in my nature because of how much I

love him and because I know of his autism,

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there's that sense of trying to ensure that

nobody harms him or no one takes advantage of

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him.

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And I would say as a child, when he was a

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child, at times I would honestly cry.

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I would honestly cry because he was a sweet

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child.

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And honestly, I just wrestled with God, like,

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why?

He's such a sweet boy.

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The rest of us didn't get autism.

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Why him?

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So there was a lot of.

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It doesn't feel fair.

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This isn't right.

233

He doesn't deserve this.

234

And as a result, I grew in compassion towards

him more and more.

235

And in turn, I became more protective over him

when he was younger, to be very honest.

236

But as he's gotten older, he's entered that

teenage stage.

237

He's been in this teenage stage for a while

now where gladly, he doesn't really want me

238

interfering with what he's doing and so forth,

which is fine, I think, where we're at right

239

now or how our relationship has evolved is

he's come to respect me more.

240

But that hasn't been easy either, because

we've still clashed.

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We've still clashed as brothers.

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I'll tell him to do things.

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He doesn't want to do it.

244

We go back and forth.

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The usual sibling.

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Marylayo: Sibling kind of dynamics.

247

Richard: Exactly. And I've been deliberate in

that because inasmuch as he has autism, I no

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longer interact with him as though he has it

for me.

249

I just see him as my brother.

250

I'm aware of it, but I don't let it get in the

251

way of how I interact with him or how I treat

him.

252

Marylayo: It's a learning for me.

253

It's interesting.

254

And would you say, though, would you say that

that's because he has mild autism?

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Richard: Yeah, I would say so, absolutely.

256

I think if his was more severe.

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If his was severe.

258

Yeah.

259

Then things probably would have naturally been

different, I reckon.

260

Yeah.

261

Marylayo: Like earlier, you mentioned about

Daniel's personality.

262

You kind of highlighted it a little bit.

263

So what would you say are the specific

264

strengths or unique qualities in Daniel that

you admire or really appreciate how.

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Richard: Bold and expressive that he is?

He's very bold, he's very bubbly, very

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outgoing.

267

He's the opposite to me in that it's not that

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I'm withdrawn, I'm just very mellow.

269

But he's just full of life.

270

Very charismatic, an entertainer, essentially,

very sociable, likes to interact with people.

271

That's something that I personally admire in

him, that there's times I'm thinking, this guy

272

seems a bit more popular than me and it's all

good.

273

I love him the same way.

274

Marylayo: You know what?

But that's even a contrast to how you

275

described him when he was a child.

276

You said when he was in nursery, he wasn't

277

very sociable with the other children.

278

So I guess as he grew older, his personality

279

and his ways changed.

280

Yeah, right.

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Richard: Great deal.

282

Marylayo: Before, you mentioned about how you

even cry at times and you'd be like, why,

283

lord?

Because he's such a sweet boy.

284

Was that in the early days or was that for a

long while?

285

When did that stop and how did you come to

that place of stopping and questioning the

286

why?

287

Richard: Yeah, it's lasted most of his life.

288

I would say it probably stopped probably when

289

he got to secondary school because.

290

Marylayo: 1112.

291

Richard: Yeah. So I would say when he

officially started secondary school.

292

And the reason for that was because I found it

a relief.

293

And I was pleased to know that there were

schools or secondary schools which catered

294

specifically to children with autism, because,

again, in my ignorance, I didn't know, I just

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thought all schools just had a section.

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I never knew at the time that they were

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designated schools for children with autism.

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So to see him start, to see him learn, to see

299

him enjoy himself at the school was a big

weight off my shoulders because it was like,

300

okay, this was something that I was quite

fearful about because having been in secondary

301

school, you know, the jokes, you know what's

said, you know what goes on.

302

And I was very worried about him potentially

going into that.

303

So once I saw that he'd settled into secondary

school, it was like, okay, this is what it is.

304

How can we support him?

How can we help him make the most of his

305

education?

306

Marylayo: And you've mentioned how he's now

18.

307

I don't know if he's still in the education

system.

308

So then what are your fears as big brother in

terms of that next phase into adulthood?

309

And then how are you dealing with it?

Or how have you dealt with it?

310

Richard: Do you know what, as of recent, he

has begun going to school by himself only just

311

as he's turned 18.

312

And prior to that, that was a major fear for

313

me because I thought what could happen to him?

Are people going to look at him?

314

Is anybody going to try and approach him and

harm him?

315

All these natural concerns and all these fears

I had.

316

So it's been a relief to see how he's

seamlessly taking it on and he's going to

317

school by himself.

318

That's going well.

319

He now needs to come home by himself.

320

That's the next thing.

321

And to be fair, I'm not as worried as I was

prior to him going to school by himself.

322

But going forward, he's going to be starting

college and the college that we're hoping he

323

goes to, there is a section for students with

autism.

324

Again, I think on this occasion, I'm not as

fearful as I was prior to him walking to

325

school, but there is that sense of, okay, he's

going to be among more students who don't have

326

autism.

327

How are they going to react to him?

328

How is he going to react to them?

Because Daniel's a gentle giant and he's not

329

street smart either.

330

So where he isn't as street smart like myself

331

or my siblings, there is low key, that fear of

what's he going to do if someone actually

332

tries it with him.

333

I hope not.

334

But naturally, these are the things which go

through my mind going forward.

335

Marylayo: So how do you tend to or how have

you up to now prepared?

336

Daniel, when it comes to those key milestones,

those key phases like you talked about going

337

to school by himself leading up to it.

338

How did you prepare him for this kind of time?

339

Richard: You know what?

Credit to my mom.

340

My mom is actually, she's been remarkable in

how she has because she's done the most

341

preparation with him, I would say, because

she's always taken him to school.

342

So the way she done it was she did it

gradually, I should say, whereby they'd go to

343

the bus up together, but then she'd allow him

to get on the bus and then he'd go and then

344

he'd call to say, he's arrived.

345

So I think we're probably going to take a

346

similar approach of him coming back.

347

Now, do you know what his school had been

348

second to none in that regard, because

inasmuch as we would speak to him and give him

349

insight on things to expect, school already do

that every day with him.

350

So whenever we are talking about a milestone

that's coming up, he would shed light and say,

351

yeah, him and school have already been working

on it, so he's already aware he's ready, he's

352

getting ready.

353

So we wouldn't have been able to do so without

354

the help of school because school have also

given us tips on how we prepare him as well.

355

Marylayo: With you, quite well, then.

356

Richard: Very much.

357

Very much.

358

Particularly over his educational health care

plan that's very thorough, very comprehensive,

359

that looks at milestones in detail.

360

I'll give you an example.

361

Even things like promoting independence for

him as well, school have had a hand in that,

362

but we've also been very proactive in making

and ensuring that he is to become independent.

363

Because Daniel is a bit of a mummy's boy, he's

still a bit of a mommy's boy.

364

And even me and my mom have had to wrestle

with each other to.

365

I'm like, mom, you got to let him be a young

man.

366

And for her, that's still her baby.

367

And inasmuch as she wants to let him be a

368

young man, she still sees him as her little

baby who was diagnosed with autism, even till

369

today.

370

She's coming around slowly, but it's ongoing

371

and I think it always will be.

372

Marylayo: Definitely.

373

Especially as a mother, I would imagine.

374

I don't know if there's anything that you

could add or share in terms of being able to

375

kind of let go, not let go of responsibility

towards your brother, but let go of those

376

fears, those maybe concerns, especially that

you had before.

377

I think maybe it was a bit more evident and

felt by you, but there would still be

378

concerns, I guess, in various ways, because

you're his big brother.

379

What has helped you and what has supported

you, what's been of help to you, whatever it

380

may look like over.

381

Richard: The years, I think what's probably

helped me that I maybe haven't given as much

382

credit or focus on is how faithful God has

been.

383

Concerning Daniel.

384

I say that because going back to the

385

beginning, we genuinely thought the worst.

386

But at the same time, particularly from my

387

mum, there was this sense of, he's going to

talk, he's going to be all right, it's not

388

going to be as bad, it's not going to be as

burdensome.

389

So being able to see that year on year, seeing

him evolve into a man, seeing him wanting to

390

take ownership over certain things, he's still

getting there.

391

But things like that fill me with hope going

forward.

392

Whereas naturally, when he's a baby, you don't

know what he's going to turn out to be, you

393

don't know how he's going to grow.

394

So naturally you have these concerns.

395

But when you see him grow, when you've seen

him grow up and become the person that he is,

396

it does fill me with hope to an extent.

397

But more importantly, whilst he's growing,

398

simultaneously, he has myself and my siblings

who are as hands on to support him and to try

399

and steer him in that right direction.

400

Marylayo: You have touched on this earlier,

but how would you say that you have been

401

shaped as a person by having Daniel is your

brother, but Daniel who has autism, how has

402

that shaped you?

And what have you noticed about yourself over

403

the years?

404

Richard: It's humbled me.

405

It's definitely made me more humble, it's made

406

me more compassionate, particularly towards

mothers, single mothers, especially whether

407

their kids have autism or not.

408

I'm not a parent, but seeing what my mom does,

409

it's a lot, but yet there are still mothers

who have children that don't have autism and

410

it's still a lot.

411

So it's definitely made me more understanding.

412

And mind you, this is coming from someone who,

in my ignorance, I had some really unhelpful

413

views and attitudes or outlook towards people

with autism.

414

So it's mellowed me.

415

But I will say it's also made me grateful and

416

appreciative of my journey in that naturally,

there's definitely been occasions where I've

417

been like, wow, lord, I'm grateful for Daniel,

but I'm also grateful that I haven't

418

experienced what he has.

419

Not to talk down on what he's gone through,

420

and I embrace and love him nonetheless, but

it's just made me grateful for the

421

developments and milestones that I've made.

422

Yeah, I hope that came out as nice as.

423

Marylayo: I hope I get it.

424

One of the things I wanted to ask is there are

425

people who.

426

They have good intentions, but they just don't

427

know how to act on them.

428

For example, there's a lot of political

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correctness that goes on, that's around, and

some people won't know, okay, what do I do?

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What do I say?

How do I approach?

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I don't know of someone close to me with

autism, so they might stay away from that

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person just because they don't know how to be

around them.

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So what have you found that could help, or

what would you say to someone like that in

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terms of how they could be with someone with

autism?

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Richard: I would tell them, be the same with

someone with autism as you would with someone

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who doesn't have autism.

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Because I was, once upon a time that same

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person where I'm questioning, how do I speak

to them?

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Will they understand?

Will they engage?

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But you have to make them feel like a human

being.

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You don't need to make them a special case.

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You don't need to make them feel like a

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special case, because, believe you me, some of

them will spot it.

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They'll clock on, and it's not helpful.

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And I suppose you have to ask yourself, how

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would you feel if someone came at you in that

light?

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Do you get what thinking about?

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Marylayo: I mean, and that makes sense.

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And it kind of, like, chimes with what you

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said about how your friends, when you saw them

and you were with Daniel and how, because they

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didn't treat him differently, that was a

relief to you, and it was a pleasant surprise,

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and that was helpful.

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So, yeah, that does make sense, actually.

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Okay, so if there is someone who's listening

and they're struggling because they've got a

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member in their family with autism, what would

you say to them?

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And there's probably a whole load of things

you could say, but based on some of the

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concerns that you had that you no longer have,

perhaps, what would you say to them that may

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help?

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Richard: I would encourage them to engage with

the support available.

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So whether that's through school, social

workers, whoever, whatever professionals are

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involved to aid your child's development, I

would encourage all parents to engage, because

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from experience, my mom and we naturally also

had the apprehension of all a social worker is

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involved.

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Are they coming to take him away?

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Are they coming to.

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You've got that feeling of fear because you

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don't know what's going to happen.

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But we found them and professionals involved

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to be invaluable, as in without them.

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Honestly, we would not have made it this far

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with Daniel and his development.

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So I'd say to everyone listening, engage.

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They don't mean any harm at all.

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Engage in the support, learn about it and

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through time.

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What we found is the support helped us over

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time to navigate and make the most of our

predicament.

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But more importantly, the support helped us to

make things better for Daniel and easier for

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Daniel, which in turn has aided his

development so far.

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Marylayo: And I guess that applies even if

that person has severe autism.

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It's about engaging the support that's

available that's around here.

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Junior with that, I just have to thank you for

sharing and just talking about your

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experience, and I'm sure it's going to help

someone out there.

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Thank you so much.

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Here's a spiritual wellness tip for you.

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It's deuteronomy, chapter 31, verse eight, and

it reads, and the Lord, he is the one who goes

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before you.

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He will be with you.

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He will not leave you, nor forsake you.

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Do not fear or be dismayed.

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Thank you for listening.

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Do follow and join me again next time on Mary

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Layo talks beyond the smile.