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Peasant Rail Gun & Quantum Ogre
Episode 28th March 2022 • Making a Monster • Lucas Zellers
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D&D players have spent almost 50 years breaking the game, creating exploits that became monsters in their own right. This week: the peasant rail gun, an army of hirelings with a light-speed projectile; and the quantum ogre, the monster who is everywhere until it is observed.

Read the transcript and get more from the show:

https://scintilla.studio/monster-peasant-rail-gun-quantum-ogre/

Get stat blocks, bonus content, and other monstrous perks: www.patreon.com/scintillastudio

Join the conversation: www.twitter.com/SparkOtter

Meet my guests:

Jeremy Vine: www.twitter.com/talumin

Jarrod Jahoda, Mid-Level Adventurers: www.twitter.com/midlvladventure

Danilo Vujevic, Thinking Critically: https://www.thinkingcritically.co.uk/

Rebecca Gray and Steven Myers, Eberron: A Chronicle of Echoes: https://www.sivisechoerstation.com/

Music by Jason Shaw at Audionautix.com

Transcripts

Rebecca Gray:

You guys are doing

Rebecca Gray:

specific monsters from older.

Rebecca Gray:

. . Steve Myers: It's not

Rebecca Gray:

specific monsters, cheats.

Rebecca Gray:

It is different cheeses.

Rebecca Gray:

Cheeses!

Rebecca Gray:

We're cheesing things.

Rebecca Gray:

I don't know if that's what you call it.

Lucas:

uh it's going to be what I

Lucas:

call it now, because it's way better.

Lucas:

Because a lot of the ways in

Lucas:

which the game has created its own

Lucas:

lore, its own D&D cryptids started

Lucas:

back in third edition and 3.5.

Lucas:

and Fifth Edition stands at the top of

Lucas:

this teetering tower of nonsense that is

Lucas:

50 years old and has given rise to a huge

Lucas:

variety of things that are just in the

Lucas:

game now and have names and wander about

Lucas:

the world of D&D in the same way that

Lucas:

wandering monsters roam around dungeons.

Lucas:

So

Rebecca Gray:

peasant rail gun,

Danilo Vujevic:

something

Danilo Vujevic:

like the quantum ogre,

Jeremy Vine:

I loathe

Jeremy Vine:

the arrow of destruction,

Lucas:

the False Hydra,

Jarrod Jahoda:

a wireless troll,

Steve Myers:

Larry the Kung Fu Kraken.

Steve Myers:

I hate this one, so, so much.

Lucas:

Welcome to Making a Monster,

Lucas:

the bite-sized podcast where we look

Lucas:

at the monsters in Dungeons and dragons

Lucas:

and other tabletop RPGs and discover

Lucas:

how they work, why they work and

Lucas:

what they mean for these episodes.

Lucas:

I've assembled a crack team of

Lucas:

D and D podcasters from all over

Lucas:

the world to track down monsters,

Lucas:

born of the system itself.

Jeremy Vine:

I'm Jeremy vine, I'm

Jeremy Vine:

a professional dungeon master.

Jarrod Jahoda:

My name is Jarrod Jahoda,

Jarrod Jahoda:

and you can find me on any podcast

Jarrod Jahoda:

platform under Mid-level Adventurers.

Danilo Vujevic:

I'm Danilo, the

Danilo Vujevic:

host/producer/editor of Thinking

Danilo Vujevic:

Critically, a D&D discussion podcast

Danilo Vujevic:

where we take a single word or

Danilo Vujevic:

topic and discuss what it means in

Danilo Vujevic:

the D&D and wider TTRPG framework.

Rebecca Gray:

Hello, I'm Rebecca

Steve Myers:

and I'm Steven.

Rebecca Gray:

And we are from A

Rebecca Gray:

House Sivis Broadcasting Eberron

Rebecca Gray:

A Chronicle of Echoes podcast.

Lucas:

So let's talk cheese!

Lucas:

uh, One of the most persistent

Lucas:

of these named exploit monsters

Lucas:

is, the peasant rail gun.

Lucas:

Have you heard of this?

Jarrod Jahoda:

Oh, yes, I have.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So the idea being you get, you

Jarrod Jahoda:

know, a thousand peasants, pay

Jarrod Jahoda:

them, you know, coppers, get them

Jarrod Jahoda:

to line up and pass a spear along.

Rebecca Gray:

Okay.

Rebecca Gray:

I got this, Steve, I got this.

Rebecca Gray:

So, rules as written a round

Rebecca Gray:

is exactly six seconds.

Rebecca Gray:

Now a free action does not necessarily

Rebecca Gray:

last that long and everyone gets one free

Rebecca Gray:

action that they can do during round.

Rebecca Gray:

so you take a bunch of peasants

Rebecca Gray:

and you hand a bunch of

Rebecca Gray:

peasants, a log a post like that.

Jeremy Vine:

You get a line of NPCs,

Jeremy Vine:

you get your hirelings, you get the

Jeremy Vine:

local villagers, whatever it is.

Jeremy Vine:

I feel that it's usually

Jeremy Vine:

a high level characters.

Jeremy Vine:

Low level characters don't really get

Jeremy Vine:

a chance to try this, but you get them

Jeremy Vine:

all in a long line, usually about two

Jeremy Vine:

miles long, and you give the person at

Jeremy Vine:

the very far end, a 10 foot pole, you

Jeremy Vine:

give them a stick, a whatever it is.

Rebecca Gray:

then you have

Rebecca Gray:

them "free action pass" the log

Rebecca Gray:

off to the next person in line.

Rebecca Gray:

Which by the laws of physics would

Rebecca Gray:

say that by the time you get to the

Rebecca Gray:

end of the row of pretty long line

Rebecca Gray:

of peasants, that you could pay

Rebecca Gray:

off because you're an adventure.

Rebecca Gray:

Why the heck not?

Danilo Vujevic:

But all of these things

Danilo Vujevic:

happen simultaneously or immediately one

Danilo Vujevic:

after the other, but they're all still

Danilo Vujevic:

bound within that time constraints.

Jeremy Vine:

They ready their action

Jeremy Vine:

to pass the stick to the next peasant.

Jeremy Vine:

And it goes all the way along

Jeremy Vine:

these two miles, because in the

Jeremy Vine:

D&D rules, a turn last six seconds.

Jeremy Vine:

So you can do whatever you like.

Jeremy Vine:

And everybody acts at once.

Jeremy Vine:

It's just these six seconds,

Jeremy Vine:

uh, somewhat malleable.

Jeremy Vine:

But the idea is that these stick

Jeremy Vine:

eventually will reach a velocity.

Jeremy Vine:

Uh, that when the peasant at the other

Jeremy Vine:

end of the line gets it, if they throw it,

Jeremy Vine:

it will hit with the force of this train.

Jeremy Vine:

Essentially.

Jeremy Vine:

I think they say, um, something

Jeremy Vine:

like the speed of light.

Jeremy Vine:

It'll probably hit out if you've got

Jeremy Vine:

enough peasants and along enough line,

Rebecca Gray:

that log is going

Rebecca Gray:

upon of miles per hour, and can

Rebecca Gray:

feasibly kill anything in one shot.

Danilo Vujevic:

So you can accelerate

Danilo Vujevic:

something to obnoxiously fast velocities

Danilo Vujevic:

in a, this, this six second scope,

Jarrod Jahoda:

and then the one at

Jarrod Jahoda:

the end or the fighter, whoever throws

Jarrod Jahoda:

the spear, thus creating a massively

Jarrod Jahoda:

powerful, impactful weapon is the theory.

Lucas:

The corollary of course is if

Lucas:

you've lined up a bunch of horses,

Lucas:

on that same trajectory, assuming

Lucas:

that you have enough skill in horse

Lucas:

riding, you can dismount and remount

Lucas:

in six seconds and traveled down an

Lucas:

entire line of horses miles long.

Jeremy Vine:

Just kind of leapfrogging

Jeremy Vine:

over from one to the other is just scamper

Jeremy Vine:

through and, uh, reach a place before

Jeremy Vine:

technically, before you even leave it.

Jeremy Vine:

If you've got enough horses and

Jeremy Vine:

enough, I love this idea that

Jeremy Vine:

eventually people, it would be like

Jeremy Vine:

train lines that you just have a line

Jeremy Vine:

of horses across the countryside.

Jeremy Vine:

That one person just keeps hopping over.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Now, like all of these

Jarrod Jahoda:

things that we're going to talk about,

Jarrod Jahoda:

they're all kind of brain teasers.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I don't think any DM would actually

Jarrod Jahoda:

allow this to happen because

Lucas:

run a game, would you?

Jarrod Jahoda:

Yeah.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I mean, hell no.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Well, here's the deal.

Jarrod Jahoda:

We all accept the reality

Jarrod Jahoda:

disconnect that a round of combat

Jarrod Jahoda:

is the same shared six seconds.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So if a thousand people are doing

Jarrod Jahoda:

one thing and they've all held their

Jarrod Jahoda:

action to pass the spear, along in

Jarrod Jahoda:

that same six seconds, you build

Jarrod Jahoda:

up this ridiculous amount of speed

Jarrod Jahoda:

in a very small amount of time.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And that inertia just massive

Jarrod Jahoda:

damage for some reason, which, okay.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I see why people would

Jarrod Jahoda:

argue that to be the case.

Jarrod Jahoda:

But if you are going to suspend the

Jarrod Jahoda:

disbelief that everything happens

Jarrod Jahoda:

in six seconds, you kind of have to

Jarrod Jahoda:

suspend the belief in physics as well.

Jarrod Jahoda:

You know what I'm saying?

Jeremy Vine:

And I do love this idea

Jeremy Vine:

that when physicists in particular,

Jeremy Vine:

because there is this massive crossover

Jeremy Vine:

between general science nerds and

Jeremy Vine:

D&D nerds when they think, you know

Jeremy Vine:

what, I can break this, I can break

Jeremy Vine:

this game and there's nothing the

Jeremy Vine:

rules say that it can do to stop me.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Because if you, and

Jarrod Jahoda:

like, what, how do I say this?

Jarrod Jahoda:

If you are going to talk about physics

Jarrod Jahoda:

and inertia, Newton's first law of motion.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I was a physics major for a little while.

Lucas:

Oh, I'm So glad you're here.

Lucas:

I had someone explain the peasant

Lucas:

rail gun to me as what happens when

Lucas:

physics nerds try to break the game.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Yes, yes.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I started as a physics

Jarrod Jahoda:

ended up in theater.

Jarrod Jahoda:

You figure it out.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So, the first law of motion, an object

Jarrod Jahoda:

at rest stays at rest and an object in

Jarrod Jahoda:

motion stays in motion with the same

Jarrod Jahoda:

speed and the same direction, unless

Jarrod Jahoda:

acted upon by an unbalanced force.

Jarrod Jahoda:

By the very nature of people

Jarrod Jahoda:

passing a spear, they're

Jarrod Jahoda:

not maintaining any inertia.

Jarrod Jahoda:

They're constantly changing it.

Jarrod Jahoda:

By handing it off to someone who then

Jarrod Jahoda:

grabs it and they're a little bit taller

Jarrod Jahoda:

or their hand is a little bit rougher

Jarrod Jahoda:

or they're wearing gloves or whatever.

Jarrod Jahoda:

You're adding friction, you're changing

Jarrod Jahoda:

the way gravity is affecting it.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And you're changing the momentum involved.

Jarrod Jahoda:

It changes everything so much so quickly

Jarrod Jahoda:

that it might as well just be thrown by

Jarrod Jahoda:

the guy at the end of the line anyway,

Jarrod Jahoda:

cause it's all going to cancel out, right?

Jarrod Jahoda:

You know, forces don't

Jarrod Jahoda:

actually keep objects moving.

Jarrod Jahoda:

In fact, they are

Jarrod Jahoda:

diametrically opposed to that.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Like if you set a book down, it

Jarrod Jahoda:

doesn't just stay down on this table.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Gravity is still acting on it.

Jarrod Jahoda:

But the force of the structure of the

Jarrod Jahoda:

table is stronger than that of gravity.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So that's why the book doesn't

Jarrod Jahoda:

fall through the table.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I mean, there's atoms and

Jarrod Jahoda:

molecular structure and

Jarrod Jahoda:

bonds and stuff in there too.

Jarrod Jahoda:

But in terms of forces, the force

Jarrod Jahoda:

from the table is preventing it from

Jarrod Jahoda:

going to the ground because it's.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Even though gravity is still

Jarrod Jahoda:

pulling it down onto the table,

Lucas:

Yeah.

Lucas:

Yeah, yeah.

Jarrod Jahoda:

which has really nerdy,

Lucas:

I mean like we have, Yeah.

Lucas:

we have to get down to this level

Lucas:

of abstraction to discuss this

Lucas:

particular concept because D&D is

Lucas:

a game, was not built for realism.

Lucas:

It was built for balance and,

Lucas:

uh, the fringes where those two

Lucas:

things overlap is where we get

Lucas:

things like the peasant rail gun.

Lucas:

Has this shown up in a game

Lucas:

that you've played or run?

Jarrod Jahoda:

To smaller degrees.

Jarrod Jahoda:

People have been like, if I hold

Jarrod Jahoda:

my turn to throw him and he holds

Jarrod Jahoda:

his turn to throw me, if he jumps

Jarrod Jahoda:

on me and I jumped on him, can we

Jarrod Jahoda:

get high enough to reach the thing?

Jarrod Jahoda:

And I'm like, okay, sure.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Every one of you has to make a DC 18

Jarrod Jahoda:

acrobatics check to pull this off.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Every single one of you, and only

Jarrod Jahoda:

if you all succeed, does this work,

Jarrod Jahoda:

otherwise people going to get hurt.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So like, so like, no, I would not

Jarrod Jahoda:

let like a peasant rail gun happen,

Jarrod Jahoda:

but if people want to work together

Jarrod Jahoda:

to achieve something plausible.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Yeah.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Okay.

Jarrod Jahoda:

You know, we're talking about a game

Jarrod Jahoda:

that has floating eyeballs and dragons

Jarrod Jahoda:

and squid-headed terrors of the night.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Physics is relative, which actually

Jarrod Jahoda:

is true in our world as well, so

Jarrod Jahoda:

it's at least it's consistent.

Steve Myers:

One of the things that always

Steve Myers:

bothered me about that whole thing is

Steve Myers:

that people immediately assume that like,

Steve Myers:

logic and physics work out in their favor.

Steve Myers:

If I was DM-ing that, and someone was

Steve Myers:

like, "Oh, that's what we're going

Steve Myers:

to do," I'd be like, "Okay, cool.

Steve Myers:

just pass it down.

Steve Myers:

Nothing happens, guys.

Steve Myers:

I don't know what you're expecting."

Steve Myers:

She

Rebecca Gray:

technically like, at

Rebecca Gray:

least to here now, now nowadays with

Rebecca Gray:

fifth edition you could use a free

Rebecca Gray:

action to hand it and then a reaction

Rebecca Gray:

to hand it to the next person.

Rebecca Gray:

So that is, you're handing it

Rebecca Gray:

between two people over six seconds.

Lucas:

Ah.

Rebecca Gray:

fast at all.

Steve Myers:

The problem with

Steve Myers:

it is, is simple is okay.

Steve Myers:

You're assuming that that

Steve Myers:

item is moving at that speed.

Steve Myers:

I'm gonna make you roll for every one

Steve Myers:

of those peasants to grab that thing.

Steve Myers:

Now you've made my life hell.

Steve Myers:

Now I want you to roll 5,000.

Steve Myers:

enjoy.

Steve Myers:

And I'm going to tell you right now,

Steve Myers:

it's going to get faster and worse.

Steve Myers:

And eventually going to catch one of those

Steve Myers:

passes and then just decimate the entire

Steve Myers:

area because of you, because of you.

Rebecca Gray:

So I don't like

Rebecca Gray:

having to actually pay an organize

Rebecca Gray:

that peasant rail gun though.

Rebecca Gray:

mean, winding them

Steve Myers:

up like that.

Lucas:

Alright go.

Steve Myers:

points?

Steve Myers:

What is, what is the point

Steve Myers:

of that point in time?

Steve Myers:

Just to have them Fight.

Steve Myers:

So I

Rebecca Gray:

guess

Lucas:

Fight.

Steve Myers:

if you have an entire

Steve Myers:

army of people and you're like, I

Steve Myers:

need a rail gun in order to obliterate

Lucas:

Oh, I see.

Steve Myers:

fight.

Steve Myers:

I mean, come

Lucas:

of lining up 10,000 peasants

Lucas:

and having them pass the spear

Lucas:

down the line, just have just have.

Rebecca Gray:

just, just

Rebecca Gray:

give them some spheres.

Rebecca Gray:

You're going to save money.

Rebecca Gray:

Well, then you have to work out

Rebecca Gray:

like the lining of things like that

Rebecca Gray:

last guy, can't it doesn't have.

Rebecca Gray:

any time to like line up the shot before.

Steve Myers:

Not only that, but you have

Steve Myers:

to explain that entire premise to 5,000

Steve Myers:

people, I work with people and I only

Steve Myers:

work with three other people and they

Steve Myers:

can't do basic things half the time.

Steve Myers:

So which way is the spirit?

Steve Myers:

Is it going that way?

Steve Myers:

Cause I want to make sure

Steve Myers:

that I'm passing it right.

Steve Myers:

I don't want to pass it wrong.

Steve Myers:

Yeah.

Lucas:

"I turned it around, I'm sorry."

Steve Myers:

grabbed the tip too soon.

Steve Myers:

I thought it wasn't my turn.

Steve Myers:

I'm sorry.

Steve Myers:

And they have to have

Steve Myers:

all hold initiative to?

Steve Myers:

That.

Steve Myers:

That

Lucas:

Oh yeah.

Steve Myers:

very, complex.

Steve Myers:

I, in my games if you find a cheese,

Steve Myers:

you get to use the cheese once

Steve Myers:

and then you never get to use the

Lucas:

Uh, As sort of a treat for, for

Lucas:

you, for you putting in the effort to.

Rebecca Gray:

exactly.

Rebecca Gray:

It has to be a new cheese.

Rebecca Gray:

If I look up your cheese online

Rebecca Gray:

and I find your cheese, I'm sorry.

Steve Myers:

So I think that it hearkens

Steve Myers:

back to three, five in particular,

Steve Myers:

because at that time, everyone viewed

Steve Myers:

DMs as like an adversary and DM-ing

Lucas:

Um,

Steve Myers:

whereas 5E, it's

Steve Myers:

more, like in three, five, I'm

Steve Myers:

trying to stop the players.

Steve Myers:

The players are trying to stop

Steve Myers:

me the DM in five minutes.

Steve Myers:

You don't have that

Lucas:

that's fascinating.

Rebecca Gray:

that kind of DM.

Rebecca Gray:

Yeah.

Rebecca Gray:

I mean,

Steve Myers:

it took me a long time

Steve Myers:

to break myself of that habit just

Steve Myers:

because I started out playing where

Steve Myers:

I assumed the DM was the bad guy.

Steve Myers:

And so when I was the DM, I wanted

Steve Myers:

to be the bad guy and Fort my

Steve Myers:

players instead of helping them.

Steve Myers:

I'm like, what the hell is the point of.

Steve Myers:

Hm.

Steve Myers:

If your players come up with

Steve Myers:

something good, give it to them.

Steve Myers:

that's what you should do

Steve Myers:

if they outsmart your traps.

Steve Myers:

Good.

Steve Myers:

That's literally the point that

Steve Myers:

is fully you wanted for him.

Lucas:

I want to ask because you have

Lucas:

played older editions, so much of what

Lucas:

these exploits gets at is the relationship

Lucas:

between the DM and their players.

Lucas:

And I have heard that older

Lucas:

editions had a somewhat more

Lucas:

adversarial relationship as the DM.

Lucas:

Was that your experience?

Jeremy Vine:

I would say yes, but our

Jeremy Vine:

only because that would have been

Jeremy Vine:

the dynamic that a lot of the younger

Jeremy Vine:

groups have, and the older editions

Jeremy Vine:

were aimed at a lot of younger players

Jeremy Vine:

that those players are still playing.

Jeremy Vine:

Now.

Jeremy Vine:

I think a lot of those players have

Jeremy Vine:

matured and they may still have the

Jeremy Vine:

adversarial nature to it, but there was

Jeremy Vine:

a somewhat, I mean, you said adversarial,

Jeremy Vine:

that's probably the best way that the

Jeremy Vine:

DM was trying to kill the players.

Jeremy Vine:

And I think occasionally that was just

Jeremy Vine:

because the older editions will hide.

Jeremy Vine:

It wasn't that you were

Jeremy Vine:

trying to kill the players.

Jeremy Vine:

It's just, they were a lot less forgiving

Jeremy Vine:

when it came to errors and mistakes.

Jeremy Vine:

That if you fail to say, if there was

Jeremy Vine:

a chance that you would just die flat

Jeremy Vine:

out and that wasn't the DM trying to

Jeremy Vine:

kill you, it was just the situation.

Jeremy Vine:

It's like, we, they wanted you to know

Jeremy Vine:

that you're in an incredibly deadly world.

Jeremy Vine:

I'm just reading Appendix N by, um,

Jeremy Vine:

Peter Bebergal, which is a collection

Jeremy Vine:

of all the, some of the short stories

Jeremy Vine:

that inspired Gygax originally.

Jeremy Vine:

And one of them is a Robert Howard,

Jeremy Vine:

uh, The Tower of the Elephant, which

Jeremy Vine:

is very, very Dungeons & Dragons.

Jeremy Vine:

It's Conan, and I think one of the

Jeremy Vine:

first Conan the Barbarian stories of him

Jeremy Vine:

breaking into this tower, and he goes in

Jeremy Vine:

with a master thief who dies flat out,

Jeremy Vine:

like he just tripped a trap and he's dead.

Jeremy Vine:

Basically just failed a saving

Jeremy Vine:

throw and died immediately.

Jeremy Vine:

And this was someone who you

Jeremy Vine:

could theoretically say is like a

Jeremy Vine:

level 10 character, because he's

Jeremy Vine:

quite skilled up until that point.

Jeremy Vine:

But it's that idea that some things

Jeremy Vine:

that your character is fragile.

Jeremy Vine:

And I think that's what older editions

Jeremy Vine:

were trying to get the sense of, that

Jeremy Vine:

you can be very powerful, you can

Jeremy Vine:

have all the magic in the world, but

Jeremy Vine:

if you are incautious, if you don't

Jeremy Vine:

really notice everything around you,

Jeremy Vine:

if you don't think like you actually

Jeremy Vine:

would, in that situation, the world

Jeremy Vine:

can kill you with a, in a heartbeat.

Jeremy Vine:

But I do also feel that there

Jeremy Vine:

were a number of dungeon masters

Jeremy Vine:

who went, this is a great way

Jeremy Vine:

of ruining all the friends fun.

Jeremy Vine:

This is just me versus them.

Jeremy Vine:

I'm, I've got all the monsters,

Jeremy Vine:

the monsters are on my side.

Jeremy Vine:

I want to smash them, but they

Jeremy Vine:

are powerful too and they'll

Jeremy Vine:

be able to smash me back.

Jeremy Vine:

So it became more like getting the

Jeremy Vine:

action figures and smashing them

Jeremy Vine:

together, like a transformers movie.

Jeremy Vine:

And I didn't see anything

Jeremy Vine:

wrong with that style of play.

Jeremy Vine:

I think that can be really fun.

Jeremy Vine:

There are a number of times where

Jeremy Vine:

I've run games like that, where

Jeremy Vine:

I'm just like, I'm going to throw

Jeremy Vine:

a dragon at you at fifth level.

Jeremy Vine:

Let's see if he can take it.

Jeremy Vine:

Let's see what happens.

Jeremy Vine:

But yeah, I think older editions were sort

Jeremy Vine:

of much more suited to that sort of play.

Jeremy Vine:

And I think exploits certainly like

Jeremy Vine:

this one would be ones that play as in

Jeremy Vine:

those games would want to come up with.

Jeremy Vine:

It's like kind of defeating the dungeon

Jeremy Vine:

master through the rules is more of a

Jeremy Vine:

puzzle than just defeating the monsters.

Lucas:

Well, talking of DMs,

Lucas:

let's talk about the quantum ogre.

Jeremy Vine:

I encountered this idea

Jeremy Vine:

of the quantum ogre quite a long time

Jeremy Vine:

ago when I was looking at, I think

Jeremy Vine:

it was a second edition of creative

Jeremy Vine:

campaigning book where they just

Jeremy Vine:

talk about game design in general

Jeremy Vine:

and how to plan adventures and how to

Jeremy Vine:

organize your encounters essentially.

Jeremy Vine:

And the quantum ogre is the idea

Jeremy Vine:

that no matter where the party goes,

Jeremy Vine:

no matter what route they take,

Jeremy Vine:

they're always going to encounter.

Jeremy Vine:

Like, they can go by the waterfall.

Jeremy Vine:

They can go through the woods, they

Jeremy Vine:

can go, they can organize a cart

Jeremy Vine:

and to take them, to the capitol.

Jeremy Vine:

It doesn't matter where they go,

Jeremy Vine:

there's going to be an ogre on the way.

Jeremy Vine:

And sometimes that ogre might be

Jeremy Vine:

swimming in the, in the river that

Jeremy Vine:

ogre might be coming down the mountain

Jeremy Vine:

that ogre might just be lying in wait.

Jeremy Vine:

Sometimes if it's poorly planned that

Jeremy Vine:

ogre might just be standing in the

Jeremy Vine:

middle of the road waiting for them.

Jeremy Vine:

But it is something that I, uh,

Jeremy Vine:

I feel that it's probably because

Jeremy Vine:

I'm a professional dungeon master.

Jeremy Vine:

I'm having to prep a lot

Jeremy Vine:

of games a lot of the time.

Jeremy Vine:

And sometimes it's a lot easier just

Jeremy Vine:

to have an, uh, an encounter ready.

Jeremy Vine:

And it's usually when your

Jeremy Vine:

traveling from one place to

Jeremy Vine:

another, it could be anywhere.

Jeremy Vine:

It could be going through a

Jeremy Vine:

dungeon, but it's an event.

Jeremy Vine:

It's an encounter that the dungeon master

Jeremy Vine:

needs to happen for whatever reason.

Jeremy Vine:

But where it occurs is less important.

Jeremy Vine:

Uh, it just needs to be somewhere.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So the quantum ogre

Jarrod Jahoda:

to me is essentially like you have a

Jarrod Jahoda:

monster in your head that the party

Jarrod Jahoda:

needs to fight for one reason or another.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And it doesn't matter what the party

Jarrod Jahoda:

chooses to do, where they choose to go,

Jarrod Jahoda:

they're going to fight that monster.

Rebecca Gray:

From what I know of

Rebecca Gray:

quantum ogre, it is essentially

Rebecca Gray:

similar to, Schrodinger's cat.

Rebecca Gray:

This is something that

Rebecca Gray:

will happen no matter what.

Rebecca Gray:

It is "this ogre exists

Rebecca Gray:

and does not exist."

Rebecca Gray:

And as a DM, I don't care if an

Rebecca Gray:

ogre wouldn't naturally be here.

Rebecca Gray:

You're fighting an ogre now."

Jarrod Jahoda:

It is a

Jarrod Jahoda:

form of Schrodinger's cat.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Yeah.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Which if any of your listeners don't

Jarrod Jahoda:

know is the idea that if you lock a

Jarrod Jahoda:

cat in a box with a vial of poison

Jarrod Jahoda:

that is set to go off at a random

Jarrod Jahoda:

time, at any point in time the cat can

Jarrod Jahoda:

be thought of as both alive and dead.

Lucas:

I think you might be one of the

Lucas:

people who's most qualified to answer why

Lucas:

it's called the quantum ogre specifically.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Well, so in, in

Jarrod Jahoda:

physics, the idea of quantum state

Jarrod Jahoda:

or quantum flux is that something

Jarrod Jahoda:

exists everywhere in every possible

Jarrod Jahoda:

way until it's observed because

Jarrod Jahoda:

you don't know until it's observed.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And so that's the idea with this ogre.

Jarrod Jahoda:

It could be anywhere and everywhere

Jarrod Jahoda:

until it's triggered by the DM.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So that's really the idea of it.

Lucas:

Yeah, Quantum does seem to be

Lucas:

one of those words that's almost like

Lucas:

a free pass, like a get out of jail

Lucas:

free card for science fiction writers.

Lucas:

Like put quantum in front of it, that

Lucas:

makes it cool and interesting, but I

Lucas:

feel like we've, this is one of those

Lucas:

cases in which it's applied in the sense

Lucas:

in which it's understood in physics.

Lucas:

Is that right?

Jarrod Jahoda:

I believe it is.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Yeah.

Jarrod Jahoda:

There's a great line in a Futurama

Jarrod Jahoda:

episode, actually, where they're

Jarrod Jahoda:

watching like races of like quantum

Jarrod Jahoda:

sized horses or something like that.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And they announced, oh,

Jarrod Jahoda:

this guy is the winner.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And professor Farnsworth goes crazy.

Jarrod Jahoda:

He's like, ah, you change the

Jarrod Jahoda:

results by observing them.

Jarrod Jahoda:

That's not fair.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Which is exactly what

Jarrod Jahoda:

happens in quantum physics.

Lucas:

And this is part and

Lucas:

parcel with a conversation about

Lucas:

railroading as a DM, which I'm sure

Lucas:

we could do an entire podcast on.

Lucas:

Given the, uh, railroading is

Lucas:

reducing player agency, how much

Lucas:

do you rely on the quantum ogre?

Lucas:

And if you do then, then

Lucas:

what's the argument there.

Danilo Vujevic:

D&D is hard.

Danilo Vujevic:

The more I play, the more I talk about

Danilo Vujevic:

it, the more I talked to other people

Danilo Vujevic:

about it and have new perspectives on

Danilo Vujevic:

it and have discussions like this, the

Danilo Vujevic:

more I'm like man, to do it consistently.

Danilo Vujevic:

Well, however many people you

Danilo Vujevic:

have around the table is hard.

Danilo Vujevic:

And this is one of those things that

Danilo Vujevic:

makes it hard is trying to understand

Danilo Vujevic:

where you can or where you should do

Danilo Vujevic:

something like the quantum ogre as a DM.

Danilo Vujevic:

And this, it's one of these things that

Danilo Vujevic:

comes with funnily enough experience

Danilo Vujevic:

and knowing when it's okay to do

Danilo Vujevic:

it, knowing when your players might

Danilo Vujevic:

spot it, but knowing that they'll

Danilo Vujevic:

be okay, cause they trust you as

Danilo Vujevic:

the DM, that it kind of makes sense.

Danilo Vujevic:

And they're okay to go with the

Danilo Vujevic:

journey on you and don't go, oh,

Danilo Vujevic:

you, you know, kick up a fuss.

Danilo Vujevic:

When in reality you're all

Danilo Vujevic:

there for a good story.

Danilo Vujevic:

And you got to trust the DM

Danilo Vujevic:

to give you a good story.

Danilo Vujevic:

That is the nuance that is just so

Danilo Vujevic:

outside of my, you need decades and

Danilo Vujevic:

decades of actively doing these things

Danilo Vujevic:

to really be able to have a good take

Danilo Vujevic:

on any given situation when you might

Danilo Vujevic:

need to utilize the quantum ogre, um,

Danilo Vujevic:

That is my get out of jail free card,

Lucas:

No, I

Lucas:

love it.

Danilo Vujevic:

How can anybody do that

Danilo Vujevic:

consistently all the time and make these

Danilo Vujevic:

micro macro decisions that have micro

Danilo Vujevic:

macro impacts when you're trying to

Danilo Vujevic:

manage the expectations of however many

Danilo Vujevic:

people, including your own at the table?

Danilo Vujevic:

It's difficult.

Danilo Vujevic:

And it's my main defense to any player

Danilo Vujevic:

ever is like, the thing that we're doing

Danilo Vujevic:

might seem easy, but in reality is hard.

Danilo Vujevic:

So if you're having fun well done

Danilo Vujevic:

because it's hard and, and the, and the

Danilo Vujevic:

quantum ogre is a very, very, very good

Danilo Vujevic:

example of what makes it hard for us.

Jarrod Jahoda:

and people argue that,

Jarrod Jahoda:

oh, it takes away player agency and

Jarrod Jahoda:

it alters the true like idea of free

Jarrod Jahoda:

will and choice within the game.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And to a degree, I agree with that

Jarrod Jahoda:

sentiment, but also there are things

Jarrod Jahoda:

that just need to happen in the game.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Otherwise you're just going to

Jarrod Jahoda:

be narrating a bunch of NPCs at a

Jarrod Jahoda:

bar, every game session, you know?

Jarrod Jahoda:

So I do use quantum ogres for specific

Jarrod Jahoda:

plot points for like random encounters.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I don't do that kind of stuff.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Like.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Smart about how they travel through the

Jarrod Jahoda:

wilderness or through the town or the

Jarrod Jahoda:

track bad guy or whatever they're doing.

Jarrod Jahoda:

If they're smart about it and they

Jarrod Jahoda:

roll well, I'm going to reward that.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And sometimes they

Jarrod Jahoda:

don't even need to roll.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Like if they come up with a brilliant

Jarrod Jahoda:

idea, just like in their head and

Jarrod Jahoda:

they're like, oh, we want to use

Jarrod Jahoda:

this crazy thing that I know exists.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And I'm like, you know,

Jarrod Jahoda:

that's real world enough.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And you obviously know

Jarrod Jahoda:

what you're talking about.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So sure.

Jarrod Jahoda:

It works.

Jarrod Jahoda:

It just works because, you

Jarrod Jahoda:

know, I didn't think of that.

Jarrod Jahoda:

But specific plot point creatures,

Jarrod Jahoda:

monsters, and NPCs, bad guys, whatever.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I think they really need to be

Jarrod Jahoda:

fought or at least encountered,

Jarrod Jahoda:

maybe not, maybe they can talk them

Jarrod Jahoda:

down or convince them to help them

Jarrod Jahoda:

or whatever they're going to do.

Jarrod Jahoda:

So I don't use them in the, like, you

Jarrod Jahoda:

have to fight and kill this thing.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I'm like you have to encounter it,

Steve Myers:

I feel like it's just

Steve Myers:

natural because sometimes when

Steve Myers:

you're DM-ing, it is nice to prepare.

Steve Myers:

And if your players are like, well,

Steve Myers:

no, we're going to go on the fly and

Steve Myers:

do something completely different than.

Steve Myers:

what am I supposed to do?

Steve Myers:

You asked me to come in,

Steve Myers:

you've asked me to run a game.

Steve Myers:

I'm trying to play a

Steve Myers:

game that's fun for you.

Steve Myers:

I have all of the stat blocks

Steve Myers:

for this specific thing.

Steve Myers:

I had the entire fight planned out.

Steve Myers:

Guys, we're going in that direction.

Steve Myers:

Sorry, It's not meant to be mean.

Steve Myers:

It's just, I think that sometimes

Steve Myers:

you as a DM get stuck in these,

Steve Myers:

well, this is what we're going to do.

Steve Myers:

Yeah.

Steve Myers:

I I'm bad about that.

Steve Myers:

I think a lot of times where I draw, so

Steve Myers:

I I'm terrible when it comes to DMing.

Steve Myers:

Cause I plan nothing.

Steve Myers:

And then I just will randomly grab stuff.

Steve Myers:

But when I did plan things,

Steve Myers:

this is what I would do.

Steve Myers:

And then people would get mad about,

Steve Myers:

well, I don't want to have to fight

Steve Myers:

that they wouldn't be in here.

Steve Myers:

What is a sand dragon doing in the ocean?

Steve Myers:

I don't know guys, if you

Steve Myers:

tell me why it's there.

Steve Myers:

I

Lucas:

That's what I had.

Steve Myers:

yeah, that's

Steve Myers:

what I got for the high.

Steve Myers:

I told you where the

Steve Myers:

campaign was starting.

Steve Myers:

You guys decided to board a boat.

Steve Myers:

I don't, do you guys want from me?

Rebecca Gray:

Yeah.

Rebecca Gray:

I think that that quantum ogre is, is

Rebecca Gray:

something that every DM does at least

Rebecca Gray:

once, because, I've got this really cool

Rebecca Gray:

encounter and I really want to do it!"

Rebecca Gray:

But sometimes players are

Rebecca Gray:

difficult because they, they

Rebecca Gray:

decide to do what they want to.

Steve Myers:

I think it's, again, the

Steve Myers:

part of that adversarial role is that you,

Steve Myers:

as a DM have set the limits and now I'm

Steve Myers:

going to test them and I'm going to push

Steve Myers:

the boundaries on that and make it, so

Steve Myers:

that way it's fun for me because you've

Steve Myers:

said, Hey, this is where we're going.

Steve Myers:

And I'm like, ah, yeah, but I'm

Steve Myers:

going to make it more difficult for

Steve Myers:

you to do what you have planned.

Lucas:

The quantum ogre does tend to get a

Lucas:

bad rap in it for exactly the same reasons

Lucas:

that railroading or the idea of like

Lucas:

leading the players along on adventure

Lucas:

path in this supposedly open-world

Lucas:

game, that prioritizes player choice.

Lucas:

We've brought up a couple of

Lucas:

reasons why railroading might not

Lucas:

deserve the reputation that I get.

Rebecca Gray:

As a player, I

Rebecca Gray:

try to railroad other players.

Steve Myers:

I was going to say, I,

Steve Myers:

I, as a player, I try and cooperate

Steve Myers:

with the DM as much as possible.

Rebecca Gray:

Steve will um, we played

Rebecca Gray:

in a Pathfinder game where you know,

Rebecca Gray:

there's this basin of obviously cursed

Rebecca Gray:

water and look at this basin of obviously

Rebecca Gray:

cursed water and we're like, Yeah.

Rebecca Gray:

we're not going to do anything that bad.

Rebecca Gray:

Thanks.

Rebecca Gray:

Bye.

Rebecca Gray:

And Steven.

Steve Myers:

You know what, not

Steve Myers:

only am I going to drink out of it,

Steve Myers:

I'm going to bathe in it, splash

Steve Myers:

it on my face, clean myself up.

Steve Myers:

But I think that I, I tend to

Steve Myers:

be rewarded for doing that.

Steve Myers:

Like the DM is understanding and

Steve Myers:

makes my character not more of an

Steve Myers:

integral part of everything, but.

Steve Myers:

Lets me in on like details, you

Steve Myers:

know, like, I went through and I

Steve Myers:

drank that water and I learned all

Steve Myers:

of the stuff about that curse water

Steve Myers:

and the curse that was put on me.

Steve Myers:

It gave the DM the ability to use me as

Steve Myers:

a vessel to help further the plot, which

Steve Myers:

made me an integral part of the story.

Steve Myers:

Even though I didn't actually matter.

Steve Myers:

just, think that you have to do that.

Steve Myers:

Sometimes railroading is not as

Steve Myers:

bad as everyone makes it out to be.

Steve Myers:

I think it is okay to try and test the

Steve Myers:

limits of your world and see where the

Steve Myers:

egg is and find where the horizon is

Steve Myers:

and see where everything drops out.

Steve Myers:

But then also be willing to play in the

Steve Myers:

space that you're given, just because

Steve Myers:

it's a sandbox doesn't mean you need

Steve Myers:

to, you know, every corner of it you

Steve Myers:

can in the world, if you can cooperate.

Rebecca Gray:

I think railroading also

Rebecca Gray:

gets a bad rap because are people who

Rebecca Gray:

railroad wrong in, in that I can railroad.

Rebecca Gray:

Giving you the option of choice,

Rebecca Gray:

like quantum ogre you can go left.

Rebecca Gray:

Or you can go, right.

Rebecca Gray:

But either way you are

Rebecca Gray:

still going straight.

Rebecca Gray:

I have only actually prepared this one

Rebecca Gray:

path, but I'm pretending that you can

Rebecca Gray:

actually branch out and do other things.

Rebecca Gray:

There are some people who go, no,

Rebecca Gray:

it's this one thing, no matter

Rebecca Gray:

what, I'm not going to show

Rebecca Gray:

you any, any form of, choice.

Rebecca Gray:

And if your character walks

Rebecca Gray:

south, then they'll die.

Steve Myers:

because

Rebecca Gray:

your actual direction,

Rebecca Gray:

you guys need to go is north.

Rebecca Gray:

So you.

Rebecca Gray:

Physically walked south anymore.

Rebecca Gray:

Sometimes if your DM is building

Rebecca Gray:

on your backstories and creating

Rebecca Gray:

a world involving you, it doesn't

Rebecca Gray:

feel like you're being railroaded.

Rebecca Gray:

You're obviously being manipulated.

Rebecca Gray:

They're obviously using your entire

Rebecca Gray:

story to make the story about you taking

Rebecca Gray:

away some of your agency, but you don't

Rebecca Gray:

feel that way because you're invested.

Rebecca Gray:

Whereas other DMs, you know,

Rebecca Gray:

make everything about them,

Lucas:

right.

Lucas:

Yeah.

Lucas:

So, so the better version of this

Lucas:

is lead me to the plot rather than.

Lucas:

You know,

Lucas:

uh,

Rebecca Gray:

plot on me.

Lucas:

right.

Lucas:

Yeah.

Lucas:

Yeah.

Lucas:

It's a kind of, it's a kind

Lucas:

of game design jujitsu.

Steve Myers:

I think, yeah, because you

Steve Myers:

will run into players who are problematic

Steve Myers:

and don't want the plot thrust upon them

Steve Myers:

no matter what, who were like, well,

Steve Myers:

I'm a loner I'm not a part of anything.

Steve Myers:

And I don't have a reason to be

Lucas:

wrong in a game

Lucas:

about party dynamics.

Steve Myers:

Just one little thing,

Lucas:

Yeah.

Lucas:

I call it buying the ticket.

Rebecca Gray:

that's good.

Jeremy Vine:

Now I get why people say is

Jeremy Vine:

around already thing because it basically

Jeremy Vine:

it's taking away that player agency of

Jeremy Vine:

it doesn't matter which direction we go.

Jeremy Vine:

We're still going to encounter the ogre.

Jeremy Vine:

I don't always see that as

Jeremy Vine:

true, because if you it's always

Jeremy Vine:

that I leave it as the doubt.

Jeremy Vine:

It's like, if you take in the

Jeremy Vine:

road, maybe you wouldn't have

Jeremy Vine:

encountered the banners, but you did.

Jeremy Vine:

You took the ocean.

Jeremy Vine:

So you encountered the pirates instead,

Jeremy Vine:

and it's the same, same encounter,

Jeremy Vine:

but why mechanically it's the same

Jeremy Vine:

encounter, but the reasons why

Jeremy Vine:

it's happening is always different.

Jeremy Vine:

Um, and I do like to see it in

Jeremy Vine:

a little bit, like you don't

Jeremy Vine:

just have them out of nowhere.

Jeremy Vine:

If somebody says, oh yeah,

Jeremy Vine:

we need to go by boat.

Jeremy Vine:

It's like, oh, you better watch out for

Jeremy Vine:

the pirates then it's like, yeah, you

Jeremy Vine:

got to encounter the pirates because

Jeremy Vine:

that's kind of what you'd expect.

Lucas:

yeah.

Lucas:

That's Chekhov's gun.

Lucas:

Uh,

Jeremy Vine:

Well, let them know that

Jeremy Vine:

there might be pirates ahead of time and

Lucas:

is essentially the same as

Lucas:

being like, there's gotta be pirates.

Jeremy Vine:

Yeah.

Jeremy Vine:

And again, if I had to choose the road,

Jeremy Vine:

it's like, well, watch half abandons.

Jeremy Vine:

And honestly, do you probably would

Jeremy Vine:

say that no matter what, because the

Jeremy Vine:

chances are, they might be bandits.

Lucas:

Yep.

Lucas:

This is a dangerous

Lucas:

world and, uh, it will eat

Jeremy Vine:

Yeah.

Danilo Vujevic:

The example I had in

Danilo Vujevic:

this instance, it was the destination,

Danilo Vujevic:

uh, end of a waterfall, my players

Danilo Vujevic:

missing misinterpreted a map.

Danilo Vujevic:

They could have gone down path A,

Danilo Vujevic:

which is the correct air quotes path.

Danilo Vujevic:

Or they could have gone down path B,

Danilo Vujevic:

which is anywhere else in the world.

Danilo Vujevic:

they misinterpreted the admittedly

Danilo Vujevic:

poorly, uh, drawn map that I provided

Danilo Vujevic:

them and they went down path B and my

Danilo Vujevic:

quandary, then there's a DM was like,

Danilo Vujevic:

okay, Did they just want that aimlessly

Danilo Vujevic:

for the next, however many hours in

Danilo Vujevic:

game, but then that's, then the world

Danilo Vujevic:

is real and they've just been lost.

Danilo Vujevic:

And that kind of makes sense.

Danilo Vujevic:

And it's punishment for them.

Danilo Vujevic:

And it makes sense.

Danilo Vujevic:

And they use resources, which is

Danilo Vujevic:

like an account in and of itself.

Danilo Vujevic:

And all these other things are spinning

Danilo Vujevic:

around, but then on the other, uh,

Danilo Vujevic:

but then on the other hand, it's

Danilo Vujevic:

like, that's boring and that's, maybe

Danilo Vujevic:

that's not really fun then maybe they

Danilo Vujevic:

won't enjoy that kind of playstyle.

Danilo Vujevic:

Maybe it doesn't really add

Danilo Vujevic:

anything to the game that they

Danilo Vujevic:

you've got lost for four hours.

Danilo Vujevic:

And maybe I should just give them

Danilo Vujevic:

that sense of achievement that, that

Danilo Vujevic:

you've found the right way in the end.

Danilo Vujevic:

I heard on my, my first response,

Danilo Vujevic:

which was no, you just get

Danilo Vujevic:

lost in this hot sweaty jungle.

Danilo Vujevic:

That's gross and you're tired and

Danilo Vujevic:

you want to go home until you realize

Danilo Vujevic:

eventually couple of successful

Danilo Vujevic:

checks, a couple of successful hours

Danilo Vujevic:

later, you've gone the wrong way.

Danilo Vujevic:

Backtrack you go.

Danilo Vujevic:

And the players learn a

Danilo Vujevic:

lesson, I suppose, which is.

Lucas:

Thanks for listening

Lucas:

to Making a Monster.

Lucas:

If this episode has entertained

Lucas:

or enlightened you in any way,

Lucas:

please share it with the people

Lucas:

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Lucas:

Your recommendation will go a

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And it's a real gift to me

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You could also leave me a like, or a

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It's a small thing, but it really does

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If you really like what I'm doing,

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you can support me through the book of

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extinction, a project I'm creating with

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Lucas:

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Lucas:

mass extinction by telling the stories

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So set this podcast feed to newest first

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Lucas:

Thanks to my collaborators on

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these exploit monsters episodes.

Jeremy Vine:

I'm Jeremy Vine, I'm

Jeremy Vine:

a professional dungeon master.

Jeremy Vine:

You can find me on social media on

Jeremy Vine:

Twitter at Talumin, T A L U M I N,

Jeremy Vine:

or you can listen to my podcasts

Jeremy Vine:

Tell Me About Your D&D Character,

Jeremy Vine:

which is on SoundCloud or D&D and TV

Jarrod Jahoda:

My name is Jarrod Jahoda,

Jarrod Jahoda:

and you can find me on any podcast

Jarrod Jahoda:

platform under Mid-level Adventurers.

Jarrod Jahoda:

I'm one half of the creative team.

Jarrod Jahoda:

Matt is the other half, or you can

Jarrod Jahoda:

catch Matt and I on Newly Forged,

Jarrod Jahoda:

which is our Twitch stream D&D game.

Jarrod Jahoda:

It's a homebrew game set in a

Jarrod Jahoda:

post-apocalyptic magical world.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And, uh, you can follow us on

Jarrod Jahoda:

Instagram, Twitter at mid LVL

Jarrod Jahoda:

adventure to keep updated.

Jarrod Jahoda:

And we've recently started releasing

Jarrod Jahoda:

our podcast episodes on YouTube as well.

Danilo Vujevic:

I'm Danilo, the

Danilo Vujevic:

host/producer/editor of Thinking

Danilo Vujevic:

Critically, a D&D discussion podcast

Danilo Vujevic:

where we take a single word or

Danilo Vujevic:

topic and discuss what it means in

Danilo Vujevic:

the D&D and wider TTRPG framework.

Danilo Vujevic:

that has been going on now for almost 65

Danilo Vujevic:

episodes and a year and a bit weekly drops

Danilo Vujevic:

everything from your esoteric, left-field,

Danilo Vujevic:

weird things that you would never

Danilo Vujevic:

attribute to D&D all the way to encounters

Danilo Vujevic:

and experience, and much more obvious

Danilo Vujevic:

topics, including soft skills, such as

Danilo Vujevic:

friendship and social and meta things such

Danilo Vujevic:

as podcasts, which was a weird itself.

Danilo Vujevic:

Naval Naval gazing.

Danilo Vujevic:

One to record.

Rebecca Gray:

Hello, I'm Rebecca

Steve Myers:

and I'm Steven.

Rebecca Gray:

And we are from A

Rebecca Gray:

House Sivis Broadcasting Eberron

Rebecca Gray:

A Chronicle of Echoes podcast.

Rebecca Gray:

It's a very different kind of podcast.

Rebecca Gray:

We're a little bit scripted, a little

Rebecca Gray:

bit improv and a whole lot of fun.

Rebecca Gray:

So we hope that you'll stop in

Rebecca Gray:

and check us out and find out what

Rebecca Gray:

it's like when D&D meets radio.

Lucas:

We'll be back next week.