Black music has always had a spiritual center — and DJ Sir Daniel and Jay Ray dig into why that's not an accident. This episode traces the sacred roots of soul, R&B, hip-hop, and gospel through the lives of artists who grew up in the church, left it, returned to it, or never fully separated from it. From Aretha Franklin's Amazing Grace sessions to Vanity's conversion, from the prosperity gospel's influence on hip-hop to the question of whether gospel rap has ever truly landed, the conversation covers how faith has shaped Black music across generations — and how to tell the difference between genuine transformation and a hustle dressed up in scripture.

Topics Covered

• Why the church is the foundation of Black music's greatest voices — How the Jim Crow-era Black church produced Aretha Franklin and a generation of artists whose sound carries a spiritual authority that can't be manufactured
• Gospel crossover, secular pull, and the cost of leaving the church — From Archbishop Carl Bean's deliberate move out of the gospel box to Bunker Hill hiding his identity to protect his gospel career, the historical tension between sacred and secular identity in Black music
• The prosperity gospel's long shadow over hip-hop — How Reverend Ike's era laid the groundwork for rappers-turned-ministers like Mase, and why Sir Daniel and Jay Ray draw a line between artists who found faith through genuine crisis — Vanity, Kurtis Blow, Sparky D — and those whose conversions feel more performative
• Kirk Franklin, Salt, Chance the Rapper, and the gospel rap debate — Whether gospel rap has ever truly worked, what Kirk Franklin got right that others missed, and how "Stomp" featuring Salt changed the trajectory of contemporary gospel

Chapter Markers

00:00 Intro Theme

00:16 Intro & Episode Setup

00:51 Do Musicians Who Find God Make You Roll Your Eyes?

01:58 The Church Roots of Black Music Icons

03:40 "Got That Oil" Spiritual Anointing in Music

03:58 Why Do Gospel Artists Cross Over to the Secular World?

08:46 Transition

08:58 Faith Beyond Christianity ... Islam, Hebrew Israelites & More

10:18 Artists Who Found God Through Crisis

12:41 Sir Daniel's Story Growing Up Seventh Day Adventist

17:02 Transition

17:11 Jay Ray's Story A Catholic Kid's Spiritual Awakening

19:37 The Prosperity Gospel & Hip Hop From Reverend Ike to Mase

22:30 Old School Rappers Turned Ministers From Kurtis Blow & Beyond

28:27 Is Gospel Rap Any Good?

31:47 Transition

31:47 Whitney, Fantasia & Avery Sunshine ... Artists With That Oil

32:46 Closing Thoughts

33:54 Outro Theme

Black Music Month 2026

Queue Points is part of Donwill's Black Music Month Podcast Mixtape. Donwill is the host of, the Okayplayer-produced, The Almanac of Rap podcast.

Listen to the playlist: https://qpnt.net/dwmixtape

Subscribe to The Almanac of Rap: https://qpnt.net/aorshowpodlink

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#BlackMusicHistory #GospelMusic #BlackChurch #SoulMusic #HipHopAndFaith

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Queue Points podcast.

I'm DJ Sir.

Daniel

And my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

as Johnnie Ray, Kornegay III.

what's happening, folks?

Queue Points podcast is the podcast dropping the

needle on black music history.

But, and, um, you know, with everything that's, that's been going

on recently, Jay Ray, I can imagine,

We gotta get closer to the Lord or whoever it is

that you do your thing to.

Exactly.

But Jay Ray, okay, this is just between me and you.

Don't, you kinda roll your eyes just a little bit Every time musician, know,

switches it up and they find God and they're just like, so pious and, and, and

holy, and now all of a sudden, everything, you know, everything that they did to

get where they are is out the window.

Don't you, don't, you just kinda roll your eyes just a little bit.

And when a, when a artist finds God and they wanna switch things up.

I, I, I, d- I do.

I, I do.

And that's so sad.

It's cynical.

And the reason why I roll my eyes a little bit is because, you know, we

got a long, we a little long in the tooth, sir Daniel, we done seen things

happen and people do this, and by now we can recognize when it is real

Mm-hmm.

it is some foolishness.

Because there's some folks that I think we'll talk about tonight, where you're

like, no, that's like an honest thing.

Right.

Right,

but some of them folks, you'll be just like, for real though.

Yeah.

And y- you're absolutely right.

And you know, when I think about like our, our icons, the

people that put in the work, years and years ago, a lot of them had, you know,

had led very church-centered lives

Yes.

at that time we're talking about Jim Crow

Hmm?

a little post-Jim Crow era, being church-centered and.

Having that was probably one of the only things that black people had to cling onto

was the religion that was given to them.

Mm-hmm.

And they, and, and they had to make their lives centered around

that because that was a place of peace.

It was a place of joy.

It was a place to break out your, f- your Sunday's freshest, your Sunday best.

So I get it.

I

Queue

why a lot of our people, like, you know, Aretha Franklin,

Mm-hmm.

um, loads of people

Yeah

out and, but they were, came from a very church-centered life.

Yes.

I I mean, first of all, and we've talked about this on the show many times, right?

Mm-hmm.

that we love has some sort of spiritual center.

That's what make, that's the sauce.

You know what I mean?

So if people wanna know what the sauce is, part of the sauce is some kind of

spiritual center where you understand that gift that you've been given, right?

Mm-hmm

honed that gift probably in some sort of space that was

spiritually led, led at one point, and now you give it to the world, it

makes perfect, perfect sense, right?

The stuff that we love.

Got some of that.

Got some of that.

Good, good.

Got some good, good from God in it.

Or as I like to say, they, it got that oil on it,

It got that oil on it.

that

oil on it, And we can tell when y'all don't have that oil.

There's a lot of young people today, they ain't got no oil.

Right.

got no oil on they, the singing, their rapping.

It's just dry and as ashy as can be.

Jay Ray, what makes you think causes an artist to come from that background?

What do you think makes them dip their toe into the secular

world and wanna take that chance?

Ooh, because, ooh, because we are complicated be-

not, Let me say that differently.

We are multifaceted beings.

Right.

Right.

and because we are multifaceted be- beings and we, um.

Uh, are, are connected to the world, and we're experiencing the world, right?

There's a natural tendency to be like, okay, well, how can

I take this a step further?

When I interviewed, um, Archbishop Carl Bean,

um, and we were talking about, uh, I was born this way, but he was like,

before that, his first album, he said, no, I wanted to get out of the gospel

box because I ha- I wanted to take this message to other people, right?

And I knew that if I stayed in this gospel box, there's only so far it could go.

And I knew that the message could go further.

So I think that's the big thing.

I think, um, you know, people, folks wanna take the message out and, and

they're having experiences and da, da, da.

What about you?

I, I believe I get it too.

I get it.

Because c- again, considering you're coming, we're coming out

of, this is post Jim Crow era.

Mm-hmm.

we've got a Vietnam War

in the l- uh, in the, f- in the, uh, forecast or even after that.

There's a lot of things where, you know, black people are.

Struggling to create identity uh, and to, to, to, to stake their claim in the world.

And sometimes that takes stepping out of the box that takes leaving

the church, which is a very secure, loving and warm place.

But like you said, Carl Bean felt like he needed to go out and, um,

take the message to other people.

But I, what I will say also is, is that a lot of those people outside

of the black church, outside of the black community always found their way.

To come to the church.

I just automatically, while you were talking, I was thinking

about Aretha Franklin's, um,

"Amazing Grace

Yeah,

how Mick Jagger showed up to the recording

he was listening.

how a lot of those other rockers showed up and

they were sitting and, they were just sitting and eating it up.

Just eating the ho- the, the anointing up and just having a good old time.

And then, then when you see the live stage shows, they're doing a variation

of, you know, catching the Holy Ghost on stage and raking in millions and

garnering lots of fans through that.

So.

You know, that is so interesting that you bring that up

because I, I think there's a natural.

Symbiosis.

I, I don't even know if that's the right word, child, but there's

this natural tendency, I think, for creatives to, uh, uh, uh, pull, uh,

from inspiration from each other.

Right?

And like if you, g- if I get moved by something, I want to,

uh, uh, recreate that creatively.

And so I think it's this natural tendency for folks to just kind of latch on to,

uh, things that they see are creative.

But I wanna go a, a step deeper too, um, about this particular part of the topic.

'cause it also makes me think of like, artists, how, how, um.

How frowned upon if you were in gospel?

How frowned upon it was if you chose to dip your toe on

the secular side of things.

Um, and if we, you know, I talk about the girl can't dance a lot, so if y'all

look up black music Mixtape, you can hear about the Girl Can't Dance, which

is kinda like pre-punk, but it's Bunker Hill who was really David Walker, who

was singing in the Mighty Clouds of Joy, but he had to take on this name because

he would have been absolutely instantly.

And this man meanwhile is creating legendary music as a go, as part of

a gospel group, and also creating legendary music as a rock act where it's

like two songs exist in that moniker.

So I just think it's a natural tendency for, to, for folks to just

kind of like, okay, well soak it up, soak it up, and then put it out.

But, you know, what, Jay Ray, we've been, t- we've been

talking about, um, the church and we

know that

people automatically think Christianity.

Mm-hmm

But Christianity is, is by far not the only religion where

we see people, um, who have been in the, who are in the music industry.

Marvin grew up in a religion called the House of God?

I did not know that.

And They were very strict.

Uh, that I knew.

now, and which his father of course was a part of,

Yes.

that.

And I didn't know there might've been, he was probably also a, um,

a Hebrew Israelite Israelite also,

Which,

Wow.

Huh

that, that, that says a lot.

But, um, so yes, we got Christianity, but plenty of, you know, a lot of rappers

lean

into Islam and,

Absolutely

and, know, they make, uh, we see a lot of people,

a lot of artists, when they experience something life-changing,

So a lot of people experience, you know, really hard times.

Some of them get close to death,

um, really bad, um, drug habits.

And so that's where they, they find themselves looking for

a greater power to help them.

And we've seen plenty of examples of that.

And one that sticks out to me the most, of course, is one of my favorites.

Our favorites, of course, vanity,

yes.

known as Denise Ma, Denise Matthews.

Who Mama made a complete change from here out to he-

Yep.

TNA.

and

Mm-hmm.

then she mama went and put on that good turtleneck,

pulled that hair back and put on those, those,

um, thick framed glasses and ha- and had her word in her hand, her good

bible in her hand, and was ready to have, pr- was ready to have Bible

study with you at the drop of a dime.

absolutely.

Um, what's interesting about Denise in particular, because I,

she's one of those artists, she got that religion, honest, right?

She talked about how she, how she got to God and saw that as, you

know, her, God saving her right from the life that she was living.

And I really respect that.

You know what I'm saying?

Like there are, listen, one of the things that we know for sure, sir

Daniel, is that the music industry.

Tests a ton of people, you know what I mean?

It's difficult.

You gotta deal with all of this sheisty stuff and all of this,

this, this difficulty, and everybody needs something to hold onto.

Right.

And I think when I, when I think about Denise specifically, I think of someone

who was living, l- she was burning that candle on all the ends possible.

You know what I'm saying?

And so her finding religion was, it didn't seem, it wasn't fake, you know,

it was like, this is who I am now.

Right, because pla- you know, and when you think about it,

what anybody that turns to religion or some sort, you know, the source, what

they're looking for is a grounding.

they're looking for is some place to get themselves centered.

Mm-hmm.

a lot of people feel like that is found in organized religion.

And I'm not knocking it.

Sometimes it, like you said, in her case it was needed I

grew up Seventh-day Adventist,

Aha

so I know that sometimes the stricter.

The, um,

The

more you break out

the more you break out just a little bit, like, baby,

you could, I could not wait get home to watch video Music Box.

I remember, you know, as a Seventh-day Adventist, when the

sun goes down on Friday, goes off.

No

right?

no nothing.

And of course, in New York in the '80s on Friday night, we didn't

have MTV, but what did we have?

We had hot tracks with Ricky Velez and the rest of the crew, you know, and,

and I wanted to watch that so bad so I could see what the latest videos were and

watch the, the people popping, popping and locking and doing the latest dances.

And, you know, I think that's a through line.

It's like whatever.

When you try to keep people away from things or keep them back from stuff,

they tend to gravitate and want it even more when they can't have it.

Yeah.

Now this brings up a question, sir Daniel, 'cause Yes, that is very true.

And I'm actually curious, I've never asked you this before.

Yes.

when you reflect now, 'cause I'm sure when you were a kid

Mm-hmm.

you have feelings about the experience that you're having, right?

Mm-hmm.

So I'm curious to know, what do you remember feeling as a kid when

you like, this is what I gotta do, and now when you reflect, what is

it like now when you think about it?

When, when I was a kid, I felt, oh my God, this is so oppressive.

is so boring.

Every, all, everybody else is having a good time.

And, you know, I just c- did not understand what is the, what is

the big deal about, you know, wanting to hear a little rap music.

Jay Ray, I will never forget, one day at school we had an assembly

and it was I guess it was a week of prayer, I think they were calling it.

And they had this youth pastor come by to the school and I

didn't know what was going on.

I think I was in the eighth grade.

Mm-hmm.

I didn't know what was going on at first, but he had asked people

to bring in their music, rap music,

hip, um, R&B, whatever, and they were going to do a music burning.

No, not a burning.

you.

A- And there was like people were bringing out, like somebody walked up there with

a copy of audio two's top billing and it took everything from me not to rescue

No.

that vinyl copy of top billing.

I was like, no.

I was like

I don't know.

and I grew up in the era of the, do you remember the era of backwards masking?

You know that term Jay Ray?

Oh, you mean the playing it backwards?

when you play, it bask- backwards.

Yeah.

of people, you know, messages from the devil and

all

this other stuff.

Now granted there are some, uh, um, instances on that particular record

where things are said in reverse

I mean,

and it's.

it's language.

It happens

but

it's not,

right?

but it's not, but it's not straight from, you know, it's not a

memo from Lucifer or nothing like that.

But, um, I, you know, that's, that was the kind of thing I grew up around.

And I just remember I just remember a moment, like when I was 13, where I just

was like, broke away from all of that

and just was like, music, this th- there just can't be

something bad about this music.

It just makes me feel too so good.

I don't wanna do bad things,

but I

do wanna have, I want to have a good time.

I like to, I like dancing.

I like

all of

these things are good.

These, you know, these people are good.

What could, what possibly could come bad could come out of this?

So that was my experience, And but then, and now as an adult,

so almost 50.

um, what I, what I appreciate was the structure.

Mm-hmm.

the structure of, you know, being a church kid, going, being

Seventh-Day Adventist and being able to just, you know, just be a good person

and have some structure to my life.

Be respectful of

Yes.

good stuff that carries you, you know, can

carry you throughout your life.

But yeah, that was my experience.

You may know this story, but my getting closer to God, um, actually

took me out of the specifics of the book.

'cause I was reading the book for folks that don't know, I, when I

was in middle school, I was kind of on a, uh, priest trajectory.

I was ba-baptized Catholic, the only one in my immediate family.

'cause I chose to do it because, you know, I be doing my own thing

and my parents said, sure, this is a thing that we will allow.

Right.

So anyway, I remember very specifically having this very difficult spiritual

experience involving, 'cause there was a party, we graduated from eighth grade,

it was a whole thing and there was gonna be a party and blah, blah, blah.

And I didn't know if I could go.

I was like, oh my God, no.

there's gonna be like sinning at the party.

Mm-hmm.

I, s- I promise you God was like, "Mm-mm, Go.

Literally was like,

believe it

go.

I had the best time.

And it literally changed my relationship to source.

Hmm

I really understood, um, the power and I, dan-

and my connection to dancing.

My connection to all of that was really pivotal.

And so music, uh, uh, really was kinda my gateway to like

really true spiritual grounding.

Um, and so that's why, that's why I relate.

Like I said, I get when there are artists that kinda go in that direction.

But I think the other side of it though, sir Daniel, right,

Talk

is,

it

you can tell when the folks are doing it for the check,

and there are people in our lives that do it for the check too.

Like there are people that I've seen that you're just like, now I know you.

It ain't, I know you,

Uh.

this ain't what that is.

a- First of all, I'm, I'm still getting over the fact

that in another life we could've been calling you Father Kornegay.

could, you could absolutely have

could've been calling you Father Kornegay.

but Yes, you're absolutely right.

When I think of, that era that we were growing up, especially in like

the, the sev- late '70s, early '80s,

we grew up in the Reverend Ike era

Yeah.

there, w- and we saw, we saw the beginnings of

the, um, do they call them?

The, the, um, that type of religion, The prosperity,

the prosperity movement, right?

Where they were preaching, everything was about prosperity.

And you know, y- you need to attract, God wants you to be rich, blah, blah, blah.

And so I think whenever we see rappers, R&B artists gravitate to that,

it makes sense because I think it's a continuum Of Of the

lives that we've led, we've

Yeah,

rap artists.

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Prosperity is, prosperity is the message in a lot of early hip hop.

and getting rich, get money.

You know, a lot of our favorite anthems are about prosperity and

getting rich.

And so when you have, you know, church leaders, I'm not gonna

name names, we know who they are.

Start hanging out with your favorite rappers and, and your favorite rapper,

starts hanging out with them and, you know, flying in their private,

uh, helicopters and all of that.

I have questions.

surprised in the least when all of a sudden one of your favorite

rappers, Mase, opens up a church d- down the road, down to the Cheshire Bridge

Road and has a congregation of young people following him because he's Mase

I I can't, I was, I was about to defend it and I can't even defend it.

Um, I will say this, you know, in all fairness, I, I side,

I definitely side-eye, uh, pastor Mason or Reverend Mason.

I don't know what moniker he used, but I side-eyed it.

I'm also really sympathetic to the fact that folks.

Do wanna get, uh, close to something spir- something, uh,

uh,

Higher?

than themselves.

Something higher, something bigger than themselves.

And if this rapper is going to be kind of your gateway to, to, to that

exploration, I'm sympathetic to that.

But I do think that same thing is w- what leads people, I think it,

I think they be playing with the, I think they be playing y'all.

I like, I,

I'm not gonna act like I didn't side-eye Reverend Run when he was

running around in, in fedoras and capes

Right.

With the collar on and I'm like,

"Ah, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

know, it, it seems just a, just a little performative, but there are,

there are lots of, um, there are quite a few really old, really, um, older pioneers

that are, um, that are, uh, ordained ministers now.

Like Kurtis Blow is an ordained minister, Um, Sparky d

who we've recently seen, and I'm so

Yeah.

story got told.

Mm-hmm.

Um, is an ordained minister You also, I believe Debbie d There's a

lot of people from that era specifically, but then, but also they came up in a

specific era, Reaganomics, the crack era.

They lived through that.

They didn't necessarily get the, the, riches from hip-hop,

which they helped create.

Mm-hmm.

so.

Moving on.

I, it kinda, it makes sense that they would kind of grasp onto that.

Not saying that what they're doing is a money grab, but a lot of them

really pulled themselves out of like, all, tho- a lot of those people

pulled themselves out, specifically out of a lot of addiction as well.

And so again, needing that higher power to, to help ground them and to pull

them out of that and thinking, you know, a lot of people still believe

that there is something that you have to, there's something on the other side

Hmm.

that you have to be prepared for.

and that there's a place where it's supposed to be is, is hot and there's

another place where there's pearly, you know, pearly gates and streets of gold.

And you know, a lot of people wanna prepare themselves and

like Mary Mary said, I wanna go.

To heaven.

You know, the So I, I get it.

I

get

it

Yeah.

if you come from the, there's an era of people, there's an era where

people grew up and that was really preached and driven into our psyches.

And if you survived Reaganomics, if you survived the

'80s, you had a crack addiction or whatever, and you came out of that,

I kinda see why you're like, Ooh, you

Mm-hmm

the Lord pulled me out of that.

So I'm turn, I'm giving my life over to him and living on the,

on the righteous path because I was saved from certain death.

You know, and I think, I think there is, um,

there's value in that, right?

There's value in this experience.

And I think this actually leads to right what Jeremy Avalon is saying in the chat.

So Jeremy Avalon lifted up the name of Project Pat.

I didn't know Project Pat had had this experience, but Jeremy Yeah, so

Jeremy is, uh, saying when they were on the road for art beats and lyrics,

project, pat would let the crowd rap, rap all of his dirty lyrics.

So Project Pat wasn't doing it.

He let the crowd do it and then he would pass out Christian books after the show.

That is a very like, creative way to handle this situation

and it's able to hold.

Both things.

Jeremy, I don't know if, uh, he, he, he spoke about or if you had a chance to

talk to him about this, but I actually respect that approach to doing it.

It's not saying he's not dissing his, his it, what got him to that stage.

You know what I mean?

'Cause we do experience that.

Where we saw this in the little Richard documentary, I Am Everything where it

was like when Little Richard was on his, his like religion side of things.

It was like all things in that former world or that other world

he could not be part of at all.

He had to make a clean break

Clean break.

Yeah,

the tutti and the fruity.

He had to make a clean break from it all.

That reminds me also, I think of salt from Salt-N-Pepa.

absolutely.

know, when she, I will say this now, there was a, she was working

on a, a, an album, a solo album that I believe was heavily influenced by gospel.

And I

Was salt of the, was it salt of the earth or something?

to that effect,

Yeah

think she might've, I think that might've snapped

because is a very capable rapper.

She's a

very capable rapper, dope producer, all of that good stuff.

So I think that might've snapped and we got to see what she could

do on Kirk Franklin's stomp, which is to this day is still, uh uh,

Changed everything.

Z loves that 30 year that 30-plus-year-old record.

They love it.

It changed the trajectory of Kirk Franklin's career, like that

song, and so many, and he's of course talked about this now, about how.

Like once again that, that, that gospel world was like, what in the world?

No, but let me tell you, it's now opened up a world where we

get all of these other, you know, artists that have come out of it.

so I, What I love about this conversation, sir Daniel, is um,

it's so easy in our current moment to be cynical about everything.

And I think what we're asking people to be is, um, it's not

every, everything is not the same.

You know what I mean?

And it's up to us to be able to discern.

I've, I think I've mentioned, um, uh, oh, and my brother just went to see her, uh,

uh, Cleo from the uk, her name is Escap.

The last name is escaping me, but somebody's gonna do it in the chat.

Cleo Sol.

M-

Mm-hmm

Cleo Sol's, the, her approach to this music and infusing

it with this spirituality is, is so

uplifting.

You know what I mean?

And.

other people say the same thing.

yeah, so I think more, I think more artists need to, whatever

that oil is, you need to go get that oil so you can put it in your music.

Speaking of which I have, I know I mentioned Salt probably

would've had a dope album, but I'ma be honest, I have never heard a

gospel rap or rapper that I liked.

just something about, it's just never stu- Remember DC talk

I do remember DC talk.

I

do.

stuff, I, uh, I would listen and I'm just like, it's not grabbing me.

I don't know what it was about gospel rappers that just never did it for me.

It just never, never grabbed me.

But it's funny that we mention Kirk Franklin

who is

as controversially conver- controversial as he is.

In the eyes of the church.

I think he is the most capable and the best example of how you can

operate in your gift and minister to people and still entertain and

still have a good time.

And I, when r- really when he's being criticized, I'm

like, I really don't get it.

I don't get So what he got on tight pants.

I mean, it got y'all to the, it got y'all there to, um, to salvation.

If it took him in some

if it took them tight pants to get you to South

Come on now.

you

better preach.

Here's the moment.

I, I will say, um, one, I had to think about it, but one gospel

rapper that I, I think was really dope chance the rapper always landed for me.

So, so he's, con- he

I could, I put,

rapper.

I mean, I put him in the gospel rap.

Category because I

mean, he, he, was very spiritually centered and he was not afraid

to talk about God in his music.

And he was very open about, you know, his, his, his religion.

So I, I think I would've put chance kinda in there.

And probably the only one like

that I would really say is like dope.

If there are some, if there are some gospel rappers out there, y'all in

the chat that are dope, let us know.

Queue Point, We will listen.

We will even invite you into the room and we'll listen together.

Change our minds

Cha-

our mind.

our minds.

If there, there's a, and I know people are gonna say, I know the

name Lecrae is gonna come up.

oh yeah.

that's a

I forgot about that

that I've heard quite a bit of.

Still never, still haven't really experienced his music.

But, um, yeah, like Jay Ray said, change our minds, you know, us to it.

Yes, 'We all have a path to go down and I think it's really, it's all about

being genuine and I think that's the difference between everybody that we've

spoken about in this episode is that.

You can clearly tell what they were going through or what they were

experiencing was either real for them and was a real thing, or was

just another, um, another money grab

another w- another hustle and look.

So there were some people that we just never got a full,

we never got like an album.

but I think we can't, can't wrap up this discussion without

bringing Whitney into this.

Ooh, that girl.

Ooh.

You wanna talk about an anointing?

We can't,

Hmm.

We cannot have this discussion without mentioning Whitney

Elizabeth Houston because there is, W- when you talk about oil, that's

people, that's who we talking about.

I get that same feeling when I hear Fantasia.

Mm. Oh my God.

Yes.

and most recently, Avery Sunshine.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

So there

I--

fun.

Fun.

Av-

from Avery, from your

Ye-

from Chester.

from Chester.

Mm-hmm.

So there are people in those instances, I realize,

I respect, I respect that oil

when I hear those people sing and open up their mouths.

Yes.

Who y'all got?

Let us know in the chat who are some folks, especially some

contemporary artists that you like.

Mm, yes.

They got that, that that's exactly what you need.

It's flowing through them.

Let definitely let us know.

Um, but of course we have more thank y'all for tuning in for this, uh, part

of the conversation, um, where we talk about just kinda the pivot to the pulpit.

thank you.

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We appreciate y'all.

We love y'all.

Like I always say in this life, you have a choice.

You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

I'm DJ Sir Daniel,

And my name is Jay Ray.

y'all

and this is Queue Points podcast, dropping the

needle on black music history.

We will see you on the next go-round.

Peace.

Peace y'all.