Episode Summary

 In this episode, Ian and Carl had a fascinating conversation regarding the truth of God's presence in one's life.

• Learn that your experience as a spiritual person may be different from other Christians and you just have to be open, awake, and awakened. 
• Understand that God will always lead you to a solution that will help you better understand your current circumstances.
• Understand that God wants you to tell the truth and shake others out of their slumber so that they can create a better world.

Heal your unresolved and unknown grief: https://www.ianhawkinscoaching.com/thegriefcode

About the Guest:

Carl Pickering - Unprecedented

https://www.facebook.com/carl.pickering.75

About the Host:

Ian Hawkins is the Founder and Host of The Grief Code. Dealing with grief firsthand with the passing of his father back in 2005 planted the seed in Ian to discover what personal freedom and legacy truly are. This experience was the start of his journey to healing the unresolved and unknown grief that was negatively impacting every area of his life. Leaning into his own intuition led him to leave corporate and follow his purpose of creating connections for himself and others. 

The Grief Code is a divinely guided process that enables every living person to uncover their unresolved and unknown grief and dramatically change their lives and the lives of those they love. Thousands of people have now moved from loss to light following this exact process. 

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Ian Hawkins 0:02

Are you ready, ready to release internal pain to find confidence, clarity and direction for your future, to live a life of meaning, fulfillment and contribution to trust your intuition again, but something's been holding you back, you've come to the right place. Welcome. I'm a Ian Hawkins, the host and founder of The Grief Code podcast. Together, let's heal your unresolved or unknown grief by unlocking your grief code. As you tune into each episode, you will receive insight into your own grief, how to eliminate it, and what to do next. Before we start by one request, if any new insights or awareness land with you during this episode, please send me an email at info at the Ian Hawkins coaching.com. And let me know what you found. I know the power of this word, I love to hear the impact these conversations have. Okay, let's get into it.

How biggering started asking those questions that you may have asked yourself why? Something doesn't quite add up. But there's got to be more to my life. A lot of what I'm hearing and seeing just doesn't make sense. And that journey led him firstly to build a relationship with God later in life. And it also led him to continue to question even in that space, he realized that there are elements of the church that didn't necessarily work for him. In fact, there is an element of dependency that exists within that environment as well. So in this chat, Carl talks about that relationship with God, that relationship with that intuitive side of ourselves, and how we can actually use that, to navigate our life, to bring in more of what we want, and also build that independence within ourselves. So if you've ever experienced religion, maybe some of it hasn't added up. Maybe you're experiencing that now. And there's some disillusionment with it. You really enjoy this chat, and you'll get a heap out of it. Enjoy Carl Pickering. Hi, everyone, and welcome This week's guest, Carl Pickering. Carl, how are you?

Yeah, good. Excellent. Thanks yourself.

Go really well. Thank you. Now typically, when we do these interviews, there's a real defining moment shock to the system. The for you, that's not necessarily the case. I mean, definitely life defining but not necessarily one of those stop you in your, in your tracks sort of moments. So, so tell me, you said the sort of a long list of things going through your life that have transformed you from where you were, one of the ones was when the quote you said to me just before when you were you had been introduced to God and you said, you've made a statement to your wife about needing to go to church, can you share a bit about that part of the journey?

Look, me and my wife, both of us weren't brought up in the church. We weren't brought up around that. That kind of ideal. I had a belief there was a God, my wife was indifferent towards that, that thought process. She's the logical person in the relationship, you know, she's, you know, studies and looks, and she's looked up, you know, creation and evolution, and, and everything else. And so, she I don't think she had any sort of actual belief, but we just, there was another but to actually go to a church was so foreign to us. That was ridiculous. And to be selfish, well, really all. But like I said, I've been around a group of business leaders for a while my wife was part of that, but not fully, like I was into what they were totally at the moment I started with, let's go to Ted, I think I need to find a church. There was a mortified look on her face, like still remember this day? And she might tell the story differently if she was here to tell it differently. But there was there was a flip of this face of like, oh my first of all, you've got us into this weird business thing that you're trying to do. And then now now this and but, you know, funnily enough, we went along to you know, a, we actually didn't even know what the differences were between domination denominations or churches we didn't know that had no idea what was what. I had one thought process. I didn't want to go to a Catholic Church. Sorry if that Catholics out there, but I just didn't want to do that. That was it. You know, I didn't even know what a Bible was all about. Really. I didn't know that's how funny and we were, you know, we were we just didn't know where we're at in that. So, nother part of that story is Just quickly, sorry, like, I actually picked up a Bible and I started reading the Old Testament. And I picked that and went, Oh, wait a minute, this ain't the right Bible. This is the Jewish Bible, not realizing that it was actually the same thing. Like I just had. I just totally. So between the two of us, we were totally naive to the whole process. But you can't deny God and what He does.

Yeah, well said. You mentioned you were before we jumped on you went to a Catholic school because your mum wanted to give you a private education. How did you miss out on things like the knowing about a Bible and that sort of stuff, you you.

You're there, you know what, that's a real funny thing. Um, because what's actually really strange even as I did, I remember during reading class, like we, we had to read before, Scott, and I actually had a reading time, I remember the times, I didn't actually take a book with me. And so to make myself not getting in trouble, I'd actually pick up the Bible that was sitting there and just read it. And obviously, just didn't click with me, you know, I think this happens with a lot of people they don't, they grow up not really believing in God or not having a thought process around that. And it's not until I think it's actually a process where God gets ahold of someone and opens that's like, it's like awakening to the world. When you're not awake to what's going on in the world, you're actually closed off, you definitely don't see that. And no matter how much you try and explain to someone this ain't right, this ain't happening, this is happening, then still not gonna see it. Because they're not awakened and open to it. And some experientially inside of us happens, we were awakened to something. And all of a sudden, I realized there was one and I was just, I just saw it for what it is. And yet, I didn't realize how much I didn't know.

Yeah, no, I love that. And that would be a great way to sum up when when people go through that change, they you're only aware of what you're aware of, you only know what you know. And when something comes into your world that you're like, that you're curious about, and actually makes a bit of sense. It's suddenly like, wow, and you just want you summed up there is like, a lot of what I've seen and heard over the last few years, when people are screaming from all different angles, they're their truth and their beliefs. And it's like, you have to allow the space for people to find their own way through it, and helping them to have their needs met, so that they are in a place of being receptive to something new to an alternative. That's where To me that's where the real magic happens.

Yep, yep, certainly, certainly not totally 100% agree with that in that spot on.

So your journey into having that connection with God, you said, it really came from a time where you were joined into a network marketing business. And one of the positives of network marketing that you described was that there's yes, there's the business element but there's this personal development element was that did that that personal development part of it find you and I really opportune time where you you're hungry for more of that growth?

Yes, it's interest when the like I said before, when something hits you, you don't know you're, you don't always know you're looking for it. When it hits you smack bang in the face, you sort of go, where's this been all my life? I need this. And I think I did, I was working, I just done 12 months away in the mining industry. I was away from my family, you I will say this is a big thing. I was doing six weeks on one week off at the at the time, which is crazy, sort of length of time away from home. And then I came home. And there was some things that would sit up there like I looked at guys who were I was gonna, you know, be 20s then 27 I think the I looked at the guys around me there are a lot older Mrs. A typical story, looked at guys who are you know, in their 40s 50s 60s, even working with them. And I realized I didn't want to be where they were at. But at the same time, I also realized I wanted to be home more. And so I went into a looking zone and my just happened to be a family member was involved with network marketing. I literally just said I want to have a look. And that went from there. But the personal development area once I seen that I'd never seen anything like it before wasn't brought up around personal development. I started reading the books that I was given. I started listening to cassette tapes, believe it or not, no set tapes, the tape, we see a tape of the week, and then it went to CDs after that and I just I used to I just I did all that. I just I couldn't get enough of the information. I went to every seminar, every conference. Every Monday night I was at the meetings and I couldn't get enough of that. And so yeah, that was the start of a change in personnel in person personnel and who I was me trying to be a better person. It. Yeah, it opened me up to the world of God. But it's interesting because I kind of don't see it the same way now as what I see it now. And I just believe we've actually moved into a different, I believe we move into a different part of this era, or next year to share the truth. So it's not the subject really at the moment. But yeah,

we might, we might come back to that. I imagine many listeners will be either having or have experience that when they first discover something about personal development or personal growth, and they've never been exposed to it. And not you don't grow up with that was my experience. I'm suddenly like, learning these things from people like Jim Rohn, and Les Brown. And, and the my first mentor, like, I was listening to all his stuff on mindset. And I'm like, you just can't get enough, right? And there's something in us like, well, actually, I know what it was for me, because I was when I first signed up with my, like, a paid mentor. He was like, What do you want this? And I spat out the words before I can even think about I'm sick of being mediocre. Yeah. And I think that's what so many get inspired by that water personal development, because it's like, this is actually like, how good I can actually be better. Have I wanted for Hellfest for the longest time, how can I improve? And here it is?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, and that's exactly at like everyone's, as my mentor used to say, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And, you know, and the reality of it is the whole world out there right now. And it has been like this for a long time, everyone, and I think the world has brought us to this stage where, and I think that's the honestly, that's, that's by design, they've, they've deliberately brought everyone to their knees, you know, everyone's focused, everyone has to focus on trying to make money, there's two couples have to work. They're constantly figuring out how to juggle family life and work life and pay the bills. It's constant, constant constant, and it's, it's gonna get worse in the last 30 years or so. But it's only got 10 100 fold worse, it's continuing to get worse. And we only, there's only one way to go you humanity has to go. One way that for humanity has to work out what they were created to be and who they were meant to be on this earth. Or they're going to stick to what they're doing right now, which is where we're at sort of thing. And the world itself, the elites of the world are going to keep rolling over. And they're going to, they're going to be happy to they're going to actually with open arms happily accept socialism and communism, and it's better and all that sort of stuff. Because it's become so hard. And they're looking for a way out. And so personal development, when it hit some people in the face, it just goes bang, this is my way out of this space, sick of tired of being sick and tired of seeing a new way. And so personal development does that. There's not enough people waking up to that, unfortunately, right now, and hasn't been for a long time. But I think there's a, there's a new process coming in that. Because I think we mentioned the other day, and just you wrote a post the personal development systems that I've seen out there, not all of them, but the ones I've seen, have almost made you reliant

on them on a new system.

Yeah, so you've come out of one system, and you've got on to a new system. Yeah, and I was the business I was involved in, they were we used to get quotes all the time, but you can't succeed without the system, you can't succeed without the systems talking about the personal development system that you can't, you can't do it, you have to be at this, you'd have to do that. And that's great for someone who's brand new and all that, but the system kept you reliant on that. And then all you did was bring other people in and put them reliant on it. And you kept on turning up because I needed to see you keep turning up, do I mean the same thing, and at the end of the day, the system really should be no system. But the fact is, everyone needs something that it takes you it has to take you back to the reliance on yourself. And when you can actually be an awakened Spirit lead human being that system has done its job. And now you can actually be the person you are created to be on this earth.

Love that self reliance, that that independence and then creating your own system. And even if you don't like the word system, it's just structure. Like we thrive in structure. It's like why when you have a child you get a regular routine. Even for nighttime, they, they tend to sleep better. But if you're all over the place, you wonder why they they're not getting settled, we'll find your own structure your own system, we cheer that post on. I appreciate you bringing that up. Because I am passionate about that having gone from one system, and I'm finding myself stuck in another system of dependency on other people. And it's really to anyone's detriment to be so dependent on something else, that you can't be the person that saves yourself. It's funny. I don't know why this came into my head this morning, I was just thinking about SOS save ourselves. And it actually should be saved ourselves. Yeah, that's what it should be. Because we, if we're forever reliant on someone coming to save us, well, then we're going to sit there like you described before, seeking further and further into dependency until something breaks. I am with you that there is a change, and I believe more people. Now more than ever ready for that change. And it's why, you know, people like you people like me, we're building new options for people, and allowing them to make an adult decision. So they can empower themselves and and not just change their life, but see the true impact of the ripple effect. Right? Well, you must have some great examples of the positive impact the personal development work you did had on not just yourself, but the all the people in your life.

Yeah, look, definitely the personal development itself. You can't knock what it's done for people, as far as you'd see the changes and improvements and all that. I'll be honest, the other thing is done enough. Because at the end of the day, what you said about independence and all that, and people don't like that word independence, you know, they don't like you. Speaking, people are going to be self self aware, and they're going to be self independent, and they're going to be this and that. That's a, you know, it's a kind of a dirty word almost in some areas, because it's like, well, you know, who's going to control they need to be they need to be controlled, they can do anything? Well, this is where for me personally, I think, for me, I bring the back to, if we can never get back in touch with our Creator. We are going to be at a stage where we we can don't get me wrong, like for example, you know, Bill Gates thinks independently. Generally, he would say he thinks independently, we might, you know, I mean, there's people out there who think independently, they can go horribly wrong. And they actually, they actually tell you, they would, if you spoke to those people, they would actually almost hunt, they would probably 100% think that they are correcting their thinking. And so we can and if we and I don't, I can't do this myself, or I think any human being can do this. But if we can somehow allow people to find their connectivity back with their true source, and then allow that to start creating in them, allow them to create in this world and become the person that will created the V independently, that independence will actually strive into the right role ethical ways of actually living and of course want to help human beings at a large, more so than anything that makes you independently dependent sorry, on things that make sense.

Yeah, it does. It does. And the word that comes to mind is something I've toured for about six years ago, that is the content concept of interdependence, where it's mutually beneficial. It's not it's not one side is controlling or dictating or creating a system. But there's a within our own dependence, we also have this mutually beneficial dependency on each other for certain things. And if you think about it from a community and a connection perspective, and that's that's a far more positive model that can take us forward than then the dependency and complete independence.

Yeah, perfectly setting in and then you've put that you put what I was trying to say probably in a better context, tourists for me, that's where association of fellowship are probably the most important. Where we get to example the other night, I'll come down through it. I've had sort of a bit of a change in my approach over the last two weeks really, and it was through a situation which I'm not going to talk about search work situation circumstance, and I was like, Okay, I didn't know that blockage was there. But I started seeing and this is how I say it in my own way beliefs is God started showing me in a different way. And I was like, Okay, I hadn't really seen this before. But it kind of makes more sense to me. And it was, it was actually to get back to my true form to who I was. I really saw myself being as a person. And but it wasn't until I sat down and had a coffee with a friend, for example. And this is where interdependency works. So absolutely, amazingly. And he looked at me and said, You're not thinking big enough cup. And I'm a huge and I'm gonna, he's thinking straight away, straight out. And I was like, what? I mean, it's sort of, honestly, I was bit dumbfounded by it, because I've been huge feud, you know, may not want to change the whole world, you know, and, and so he's, he's like, I don't think I'm big enough. I'm like, What are you? And it was any, he actually just spoke to me about why I was thinking about certain stuff, instead of already thinking about where i, where i promised, I was gonna be, that makes sense. And I was like, so I was doing action steps. As a small person trying to build to this, instead of for me, personally, I was already positioning myself in this area, mentally, spiritually, and then allow on that to be given to me. Which is just so just, but that independence like I said, that interdependence Fellowship Community is upmost importance it. We've, we've, we've brought that we've made that into a club, to mate with everything we do, whether it's a church system, or it's whatever their local Freemasonry system, the local, the local business district, we've made it where we've become dependent without realizing that on that, we've tried to create interdependency, but we've actually made it dependent. And,

yeah, you mentioned another thing that many will go through on their awakening journey. When when I say awakening, whichever way you look at it, it's it's, it's an awakening to who you really are, right and your connection to the divine in whichever, whichever way you see that, whether you just think it's your own intuition, or God or universe, however you want to view it, believe it, it's, it's one of the same. And you'll continue to have those moments where you realize you're not playing big enough. Intimate, that's one of the absolute blessings of of that personal development, that personal growth journey is when you when you kind of level up, it's like gaming, right? I know, you're a bit of a you do some some gaming in another part of your world. But yeah, yeah. When you level up, and you just go, Ah, man, I'm capable of this, like, look at this thing that I thought I was gonna need, I'm gonna need, I'm gonna need a bigger boat, as the as the quote goes. So want to I want to come back to where you said, probably the biggest moment for you was an introduction to the reality of God. So if you are someone who's kind of tiptoed in, and you're now discovered in a world of business, that these groups of people that are that are going to church actually seem to be in a more positive place and what you've experienced elsewhere. How do you go from that place to then, like you said, An Introduction to a reality of God, beyond what you've known till that point.

Yeah. Okay. I guess like you said before, you said, I think earlier on that you've got to be open and awake, awakened to that and ready for that experience is such. These people are Christians, right. And we used to have summer, winter summer conferences, big weekend conferences, and on the Sunday, they used to have a fellowship prior to, it wasn't connected with the business as such. But it was invited to that. So I was I didn't do it deliberately. When I say that is, when God gets ahold of someone, he gets ahold of someone. All right. I don't know how you. It's how everyone says that. But the literally. There was a pulling there was when you call it, it's an issue of intuition. There was instinctive or a, I think in the Bible, and it says the Holy Spirit moves through the auctions. And he leads his people through auctions. And so there was this just intuitive auction. to first of all, pick up a Bible and start writing it. Secondly, I got invited to a business done God's way seminar went to that I was introduced to the spiritual realm immediately through prophetic speaking. And of course, personal prophecy, all that delivered to me. Never been around that my whole life. And so that I was really, but what happened was me I can't explain to everyone it was an I suppose it's a something I kind of a dream and hope that other people experience like I did. Because I walked into the church system, and I'll be honest with you, I was disappointed. From my experience to what I saw, I didn't understand I want to, I was so taken by God, on the internal process, that I couldn't get enough of him. And what I mean by that is, I was looking at YouTube videos trying to learn more, I was trying to read more I was trying to, you know, work. I couldn't get I went to church on Saturday, Sunday morning, Austin went back on Sunday afternoon, because I had two services. Was that? Absolutely. And that was how do you explain when you get stuck when you get a dream and a vision, and it's, it's literally embedded in you so much that you wake up in the morning, you know what you can't, you can't stop thinking about it. But you can't control that, that came from some that didn't come from an external source that came from an eternal source. So it, you know, you that those thoughts weren't something I learned to do. I didn't do all that. And so then, I quickly be honest with the church leaders quickly recognized that and grabbed ahold of me, and they wanted me to become a pastor. And they wanted, they had to be preaching within no time. Which was interesting. And, and I was let wild and free and go for it. And, and so I was preaching and but the more I got involved in a church, it was more like, the more God wanted me to. He was like, he was showing me what was wrong with everything. And and I was like, and it's the same process that took me to, to Excel for God. It was the same process. It took me away from the church as well. It's the same leading the same function, the same thought process, and I still live that life day to day like, like that. So where was this? There's no moment you can explain. Yeah, I mean, there's no moment to explain it apart from the fact that maybe I was open and ready. And I think that was God's designed that time. To me. So like, so I can be a voice right now saying work, where you are, where you are, right now. You You were brought to this stage, and who knows what the future holds. But, you know, you were brought to this stage to be a voice right now.

Yeah, and I don't know if this resonates with you, but part of me has always known that. There's, there's always been something within me, like just going well, what? Like, I'm meant for more. And again, it's hard to explain it to someone that perhaps doesn't have that feeling. But when you have those moments of like, tingles, like I'm getting through now of like, confirmation of like, you know, you're on the right path, you absolutely are. To me, I look at that now and go, Well, I probably had those callings at different time in my life. And you mentioned how God speaks to you and leads you to a certain path. But what I would say is that, when you resist the calling, when you resist what life gives you, then the messages will get stronger. It's one of the might have been Bob Proctor and excuse me if I've got the wrong person but talked about the universe will talk to you. So God, another word for God, the universe will will give you a ticket with a feather. And if you're not paying attention, you'll get the break. And if you don't listen to the break, which is usually a bit more abrupt, right? Well, then you'll get the truck. And for me, like, I've looked back in hindsight of the different feathers and the different brakes, but then I've had trucks and not taking notice. And then I've had like, big trucks, like people passing away unexpectedly other moments of loss and you're like, okay, yeah, I'm paying attention now. I've got, I'm paying attention. You've got me. So, I think probably the know again, if you come at it from a purely logical perspective, in your head, you will have a decision that life is not how you want it to be. I want life to be a different way I want it to be better and the unconscious part of your brain will start finding answers. Now unlike you I like to I like to believe that there is a higher power that there is a God that is also part of that process. For that As listening doesn't matter how you how you frame it, it's just knowing that there's something within you there's there's a thought process beyond the, the what you then do the decisions you make through thought, but those thoughts that just come randomly, like, where do they come from? But there's part of that that guiding us home to where we're meant to be. So you've had this calling and you're starting to learn more what I got when you were talking about them asking you to become a pastor and you started preaching was like a stabbing pain in my heart that I'm getting from something there from you have like, was that? Was that a real big step up for you having to go from? Okay, well, I'm interested. And now they want me to step up and preach about something that I'm only kind of new to.

Yes, and no, yes, I was. Got a look, I didn't. I was like, you actually went out when you explained it probably perfectly. There was as growing up, I saw myself, always speaking on stages of you, honestly, that's my comfortable spot. But up until that moment, I built I was building a business. But I was a nervous wreck on stage. I was nervous wreck didn't want speak. You know, go back to school, high school during school orals, you know, are all things I think the kids laughed at me once because I actually time when I was 17 seconds, it was meant to be a four minute talk. I did 17 seconds. And I was off out of the they actually time me and I remember that. And I walked back to my desk and I was finished paying I've done by done my assignment. And so that when was it when I had this wasn't just a one, one, God got ahold of me. He changed me from inside, immediately. And like I said, there's this action is a spirit that I thought, well, you know, the Holy Spirit as we describe it in, you know, in the church realm, but holy spirit pulls you in directions. And it's just right. And so when when they actually wanted me to preach, it was actually it was actually it was mutual, because I was ready. And I've only been a short time in the church. But excuse me, I was getting some prophetic words for people. And I kind of was like, and I was, so I kept on getting these visions of me speaking to these people, and their life and about things and stuff that I should know. And I actually started getting all these. And so I was like, so I went to the pastor, and we're in a Pentecostal church. So that actually no problems for them in the Pentecostal realm, they happy to allow the Spirit to flow as much as they as much as I can control it. And so so they sort of, you know, they gave you they gave me, like, they only shut me down once. That couldn't be one. So then that was it. Was just going on for too long. I think you're gonna speak about that. And you cannot even apologize to me afterwards. But the Yeah, but he basically said, Oh, that's enough. Cohen took the

microphone off, your honor. You on a rant? Yeah, I

was, you know, I was gonna remember what I was talking about. But, but yeah, it was just so that was a process that was natural. And they actually, I mean, I think I don't even know how long I think that I'd have been a part of the church for like, less than two years. I had no qualifications. They have no nothing. And they come to me and say they want to start up a new church plan. And they actually asked me if I wanted to be the face of it, and basically run it. Wow. And, and I was, you know, I'm excited. You know, God's doing this for me, you know, he's evaluating me, he's, you know, no, I haven't got any qualifications. And he's done this, but you don't I mean, I was all like that. And it got delayed that church plan for about 12 months. But in that 12 months, I sat in leadership meetings, and I saw stuff that wasn't seen. I was like, Oh, my God, I right. That's not God, that's just man trying to create a business model, basically, you know, that's what I would say, you know, I was just, you know, how to create how to create enough car parks for people and this and that, but because we're going to plan for this growth, and we're going to bring in this system now, which was actually a system from another big church that they sell a system basically off to how to run your church

are interesting. So I don't know if you've seen that before,

but there's a big church well known churches, you would have heard of them. Please this I don't know how many of them do it. But these ones actually sell systems off. Literally like how to build this church successfully. And you can actually download sermons and everything from him and all that and, and to me, that wasn't see. When you preach, it's actually the proclamation of God. So it's actually you God's but it shows you what to say. In other words, you don't want to prepare anything. God told me a long time ago said car cars trying to predetermined he said Stop prepare. You're not going to parenting I want you to, I want you to treat it like you're sitting here on a campus while sitting like this. Or I just said, I want you to treat it like you're sitting on a couch at home. And hey, can you speak to people love it. Okay. So I actually went, my one of my, eventually, after about two or three sermons, I realized there was no flow, and I like to feel the spiritual flow. When I speak. I like to feel that it's just flowing out. So I went there, and I was a bit nervous, but I got up there and, and I just spoke, and it was probably one of the best move of God's I've seen in a church. When I say move to God, you know that if you've ever been around a Pentecostal church, you understand what that means. But there was a lot of spiritual stuff going on, you know, people falling out of the aisles and the chairs and and I've been through all that I've laid people, you know, lay hands on people, and they fall over. I've done all that. And I walked away from the whole lot of cup a few years back, probably about six years back now seven years back, because it wasn't where it was that it wasn't where God was going. It's from my perspective where I was where he was taking me. I don't even know what we were talking about, then I just get stuck again. But yeah,

no, no, that was perfect. I was just asking you about you, the pastor. And, and you've touched on some really powerful things there. To me, it's like, what you described there as you you become the conduit for God's word, you become you become the vessel in which it flows. And now I tell guests before they come on, and I say the same thing to us. Like, I get some context, some structure. And then I just allow whatever comes through to come through. Yeah. And to me that, yeah, go on.

Yeah, no, and, and that doesn't have to look any certain way. Like, for example, I've got friends who operate in the same area like and that they'll write five pages down, because God just the way that God uses them as a conduit as you put it, which is perfect. is done, right, he'll just start flying, and they'll start writing, you have no no, right? Next thing, you know, they got a five, Page seven sitting there in front of them, and they'll just step up on stage and start speaking. For me, I don't have any written out, because I just, I start reading stuff, I lose all all flow, I find injustice how it's been for me,

okay, this is good. And if you just come back from a from a perspective of people's own personal growth, that our connection to God or intuition or spirit, or however you want to put it is often mirrored in our external world. So I like structure, I thrive in structure, when I've got structure, I can then just add lead. So I create the structure add lead, I will go into meditation, deep meditation and ask I need information for this, or, or provide to me what you need me to talk about today. And then I'll get the idea and live it come through and an actual visual, a thought a word will pop into my head, and I'll and I'll start writing. And then suddenly, I've written three pages, and I'm like, wow, and then I just put it out there. And people come in, you know, it's like, then you get people coming to you. And I'm sure you had this when you've taken a sermon like that. When people come to you go, it's like you were inside my head. And you were it's like you were sharing exactly what I needed to hear today. Yep, yep. Yep. And to me, that's when we know we're on the right path. Right.

Certainly, certainly. And, and once again, that's, I think, like, I did a video actually, before I come on here earlier on this morning, and because that's another area I'm going to start focusing on is live videos on my Facebook page, particularly. And

I'm glad you said that, because when when you were talking, and you were talking about being the pastor that was going to ask you that after that, you know, I feel that is the right angle for you. Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, thanks. It's actually been an angle God's been showing me for a long time. I just haven't known how to put any structure around it. And it's interesting, you talk about structure, I think I've just changed subjects. But the actual, although I'm not a structural person, really, I've tried to put structure. Every time I try to put structure around something, I find that I end up getting a brick wall. Like I'll put structure there, when I get to go to do it. The feeling the flow the need. Obviously there's like a brick wall and is like a darkness it almost comes over and I just can't step into it as much and joy.

When you're the big picture thinker. You need no boundaries you need like open space to just create. I'm down the other side of the spectrum. And the the extroverted sensory person, that structure with structure, I thrive without structure. I'm floundering so that's when I hit my dark walls, my dark spaces. So again, it said the unique part of you. Yeah, I would say for you. You will you will Only need, okay, I've just got a thought through a way you go. And that's where you're going to get your best results. So that makes sense to me.

Yeah, now you're talking. Thanks. I actually you're talking exactly to me right there. And that's exactly what I needed to hear. It's, it's where it's the conclusion that I've come to as well. Yes, again, mentioned my wife, she doesn't mind me mentioning her. But the reality of it is, it happened this morning, either. She's, she's a very structured person needs to plan this morning. And she's done this before. When I come when I preach, I do this. But even before our interview this morning, she goes, Oh, if you don't need prepared, but if not, I'll tell you, and she goes, you're gonna have some repair. And I said, No, I said, you know, me, I've never had any prepared, that's just how it goes. It's the only way to do it for me. And the listeners need to understand, that doesn't have to be

their way. Yes.

Yes, love it. 100%. So we can't mimic him.

But for me, personally, with the help of him inside of me, he can start showing me who I am. So I can become more Christ, like I can be the living expression of God in this earth, with the way always created to be. And that's the difference. And that's why the church really get lost. Because they're trying to mimic someone, instead of actually trying to let him show them who they meant to be like,

it's, it's back to what we talked about earlier. It's the control and the system, instead of the empowerment and the freedom, which, if you go back and read any of Jesus's messages, it's, you read it through the context of your own lens. And all of those words will make more sense.

Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

Just another observation, when you talk about the preaching, in the church, they call them prophecies in the in the spiritual in inverted commas, community, they call it being psychic. To me, it's, we all have these different abilities, some are going to be different from others, everyone's going to have a unique, but we have this ability to tap into something bigger than us. Yeah. And I really, like I honor you for sharing that. But also ask everyone to do something that Carl mentioned before, which is being open to those moments when you know, that's been true. When when you've thought of someone and they've called you on the phone, where you've, you've had a thought about reaching out to someone and I've gone, I'm so glad you reached out because x y Zed like this is what's possible, we're more open to whatever word you want to put it like that the ability for us to connect at a far deeper level. And that comes from that deeper connection to God to spirit.

Certainly, Look, everyone can operate. I think my previous video I did today was on energy field on energy, and how energy flows in and through him. Now, we might not know the source, a lot of people out there might not know for me, it's like, I know, the source, the way that energy flows from, but for everyone else that would have different ideas of that that's fine. But the energy that flows, we all have that same energy flow flowing. And so when it comes to, like we say, prophecies, you know, which is you know, that can look so many different in so many different ways. There's anyone in touch with that doesn't even need to be super spiritual. It's not even super spiritual, it just has to be a natural, your natural being when you're open to your natural being of what's coming into your mind. Anyone can operate in any sort of real they want to it doesn't have to come down to who they believe in. Now that's another subject to the what I believe in consequences of that or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. The fact is you can all operate in that room to help you know and if we get if people get to what you're talking about and and even myself and other people like us, but the the the idea and the process that works Talking about if people can understand where we're trying to get people and humanity to, then that intuition, the thought processes the prophetic or or, or words of knowledge. In other words, we use words of knowledge that people will flow. And it will flow for the better of humanity and better a better friendships. That's why interdependency is such a huge thing. There was no mistake, but I rocked up for a coffee the other night with a friend, that the first thing he did, he looked at me and said, You're thinking too small, you don't think big enough. And he knew, he knew straight away and he'd already and he didn't know the thoughts and the ideas that I was getting presented that day, with, and, and the ideas that I was sort of trying to rattle around and bring into context of, you know, who I was, and what and, and he just rocked up and said that, that's a word of knowledge, we would describe it as in a church in a church system. But everyone can operate in that room. Yeah, and everyone does, they just are not aware of it, not all

the time. Yeah, or they deny it. Everyone has had an experience with energy, whether it's walking into a room after something's gone down, and just feeling the icy cold reaction or being a good feeling place or meeting someone that feels like an old friend. And it's sort of they're projecting back to you a very similar energy, and it just feels safe, and it feels like home. So everyone's had an experience, but it's just how far you're prepared to take the depths of that. And to me, the further you can be open to the depths of it. That's where, like, that's how you got to DB connection, your spiritual connection in whatever way that looks, whatever realm that looks, you will deepen it by having that open way of looking at it. Now, you said, you will I know from reading a lot of your stuff now that you are preaching a lot about the disconnection from church and the system. So how do you say that see the way for you the way forward for the future? By still spreading the message of God? Without without the confines of the church?

You know what, that's a question I've been asking myself for a long time into, right? It's like, how do you want me to do this? God? You don't? How do you? That's my questions, you know, on a daily basis, how do you want me to be God? How does this work? I have a word of word that God gave me about 10 years ago. And the word is unprecedented. I started the ministry as such, which was shut down for a long time, because I didn't want to have a ministry or anything. But I had a ministry page or a church page or whatever called unprecedented, I still operate. I'm just now starting to reuse that word unprecedented. And unprecedented is not something that's really been seen or done before. As such, I think he can be he can be honest, we look around the world. And we're at a time where we haven't seen what's going on before like this. And it's probably been more highlighted, because we have social media and all that sort of thing that and that's opened up a new world to everyone. Because we are seeing events as they happen. We're now getting teachings and, and giving out different thought and conspiracy theories, whatever you want to call them. Some of them are very true. But a lot of theories coming through in our minds now. And a lot of you know, so we're getting a lot. We haven't seen, these are unprecedented times that we read anyway. And so, for me to get that message out, I've had to work out that I have to be me. Yeah, first of all, first and foremost, without any barriers, like you said, any real end. And that was why I had to come out of the come out of out of the church system. I also have to, I've just come to the realization that it's not totally up to me, in my role, and my job. And this is what I would say to everyone out there is that your role in this world is to if you can get to the stage where you completely know who you were created to be, and what you're meant to do on this earth. And that is all you have to do.

And the results

of that are irrelevant. Because if you're doing exactly what you were created to do, then the results will take care of themselves. And I'll be honest with you, I put a lot of stuff back on to God. You know, like for example, if someone gets sick, and I quickly pray for him, I just go you know, heal that person in Jesus name. My responsibility has been done. It's now God's responsibility to get healed and I'm like, God, why don't you do that? It's not my you know, I mean, what did you heal that person? Why didn't you provide for that person? Why didn't you and I put it I said, that's your issue. It's not mine. And and if don't get me wrong if I had the funds in a letter or whatever I could and that you're saying so when it comes I do. There's a scripture in the Bible actually says in the end days that I will pull my spirit out up on all flesh. And to be honest with you, and that's it doesn't say, I will pull the spirit out up on a on your flesh. It doesn't say that, you know, I mean, and and we've talked about this already the intuition and when you when you get a different spiritual feeling you can't explain how that happens. There's no process to that. There's no, because if I could if I could have what there was a process, I could just go around to the whole world down and have a program set up and everyone gets saved. Just wait and wait one. Yeah. And, and that's not a common prayer privy to God's ways and plans. You know, I'm well aware that there's a lot of hurt and stuff going on in the world. I'm not aware of all those conversations. And it's, and I'll be honest with the church itself, to me is not the answer. But what we're talking about here is the answer. And then I suppose the only difference that I have with you and maybe other listeners is I've totally come to my off currently got my foundation I'm not talking about Don't be wrong, but my foundation is as Sol is there, the you know as the depths of this earth. So my route I don't have any need to know where my root source comes from anymore. Is that is that make sense? That's where I'm at and that to me are fine with some spiritual people out there have everything so much going from the royalists. I've got some great friends on social media, who talk about you know, these energy and being light bearers and just, and also just the flow. And I'm thinking man, they just so got to think it's so amazing what they're writing. That there's one little thing for them and made this different. I've totally got my foundation in Jesus. And that's it. And I'd actually Don't look anywhere else. I don't need to look anywhere else. I just flow with whatever he gives me each day is that makes that makes sense. They're wrong. And I'm right, because they've got it down to it's just the way I see it from my perspective. And so

yeah, I guess it's, it's, again, as the as the conduit, we get spoken to a different ways. And some people are needed to reach a certain type of people, or they might not ever reach be reached by one particular way of preaching. So yeah, no, I love that and, and knowing your foundation, and being true to that, that's part of the key to doing what you said before, if everyone just plays their own part, then how much better is life gonna be? You mentioned Know thyself. That was the motto of my high school. And we used to just make jokes about what that actually meant. But, but it's like the, the more true that's been come become every single day, for me has been amazing. You what you're describing there. Self autonomy, was the phrase that came to me. It's, it's giving everyone the opportunity to create their own path. Each one coming with its consequence, but not feeling that they're responsible for anyone else, because that's part of what's creating so many of the struggles with people in, in relationships, whether that just be in their family home, or at a bigger scale, is wanting to be responsible for other people's stuff for other people's mess for other people's emotions, saving different parts of the world when they haven't got their own, as you said, foundation in order haven't got their own house in order. That that's not how we're going to, to like people talk about save the planet, we're not going to save the planet, by people focusing in that area, but instead in focusing in their own small part of their what is going on for their internal world. I wanted to bring this to your attention. You mentioned that verse from the Bible. And you talked about, on on there on people's flesh. I saw this piece probably about two years ago, and it was talking about the was Genesis, and he was talking about if you look at the difference between the original ancient Hebrew text and the modern Hebrew translation that most of us read, and he was just talking about how subtle The difference is, but how massive the differences in terms of what context and meaning would be around that new word is the word flesh. The one that stuck in my head, but he's talking about any created man, and he created any Adam skin, or apparently ancient Hebrew word, the word was actually light. He gave them light. And I really love that because it's like he gave them energy. Yeah, yeah, he gave that in tonal part of us that we that we all have, and we've been talking about for the last 45 minutes. Yeah,

So what was the light? Jesus is the Lord Jesus came along with it on the life he also said on the light.

So when God breathed into Adam, he went got broken down. He didn't break just Jesus, he brought He breathed light. He breathed His light into him. We talk about the born again, experience in the church. All right, I would love to refer that to as the awakened experience. I believe we have a dead or a dormant spirit. Because we're born into a world system that doesn't want us to learn about our spiritual selves. Yeah, the way we've been taught to learn from external processes. We read books, listen to audios, listen to men, news, TV, whatever, doesn't matter, preschool, our parents who don't know any better, and they teach us all from out here into here. The original learning of Adam was God inside light energy, bringing forth thought to do so this is where things are all backwards. And we need to get back into tune to being in alignment with our thought processes, which actually have to come from within. I don't, I don't really listen to anything these days to hear the truth. I listened to a couple of your podcasts and just for the fact that I knew you'd want to be on it. I'll do the same with other people. If I get invited somewhere I check, I have a quick listen to just make sure I'm, you know, it's, it's gonna gel. And, and so it was, but I don't do it to learn more. Yeah, because, and my learning source comes from inside. And this is where we probably need to get to at some stage. But yeah, you talk about light, and energy. And it's, it's all there in the beginning.

To me, I saw something online maybe three years ago, and it was talking about the Mayan calendar and saying, like, it actually backs up everything. Like it says that all these different theories are true. By why can't it be? Why can't it be all of them? Now, whatever you buy into that, it's like, it's a it's a different way of seeing it. I'd love to hear from you for the benefit of listeners who are here. And I thinking okay, well, you're using you're referencing the Bible as your sole source of truth. Yep. What are they to make of that if they've got doubt or skepticism of this book?

I totally agree. Yeah, apparently

No. Totally good questions and justified, totally loving the world. It's a mess. You know, what's a church done? It's still a mess. And I had this, I've had this thought process for a long time. And I've had to work out how to answer that. Because Because I actually, I actually relate to everyone who thinks, though, I actually wants to ask those questions. And I've come to the realization myself what I'm going to say I don't, I referenced the Bible now. And I do have that knowledge, and it helps me. But I don't read the Bible anymore. And people the church are going to watch and if people were to, if people are going to, they're going to absolutely just be gobsmacked at that, that actual comment right there. All right, they're gonna be like, you know, he's not a Christian, whatever, you know, and it's just, to me. My experience with God through Jesus was with Jesus did not come through reading and understanding. So if you're, which will come into my head this morning, and I was talking to people, alright, if you want to, if you're doubting if Jesus is real, all that stuff, that's great. That's perfectly fine. All right, totally get it. No problems. I'm not here to talk you into that. In fact, I don't even want to talk you into that. Yeah. All right. I think that would be a travesty to talk someone into something. Just on logic. Yep. But if there's an inkling of, alright, is this spirit man? Real? Then I would expect a realistic experience. Yeah. And so I would tell the people all right, forget the Bible for a second, alright. Y'all relate, if you come to the realization of human real, he may lead you to read the Bible and get some understanding and context around what he's trying to teach you. That's perfectly fine. You might not too, doesn't matter that I explain. This is what if someone said to me, I don't blame us, I want to believe in Jesus, but I don't. If he's real, he's real. Right? And I'd be honestly, I don't think there's any other god I could do this with. If he's real, then there is some way that you can do and it could be through intuition. It could be through feeling, it could be through just a knowledge of all of sudden, because how do I tell you I can't explain to you how I know he's real. Really, it's like, how do you tell someone? You had an intuition? Yeah, it's the exact same thing. There's actually another quote in the Bible or right to take this way. My, my people will know my return via the via instinct. It's interest in the church are always teach them that Jesus return is going to return in the flesh. I'm not saying that might happen one day. But it actually says that my people will renew my return. Through that, no, sorry, through their intuition, it actually uses the word intuition.

So So

my suggestion is if audit, I doubt the Bible, God, don't read it. But if reading it might answer some questions, fine. But ask Jesus to reveal himself or God to reveal Himself to you. And if you get nothing, keep going about doing your life as normal, please. But if you get something which may lead you to another person, it might lead you to a church, it just may lead you to falling on the floor in tears and gone. I can't help but deny what I just experienced, then totally, you cannot deny

it. Yeah. I love that. I often for the long term listeners of this show, they would know I talk about that a lot. Like I don't need you to validate my experience. I don't even need you to believe my experience. But I know, the full body experience that I had, I know the experience that I had, and it gave me everything I need to know the truth of those moments. And, again, tingles as I say the confirmation becomes just flows straight through us when we allow ourselves. And to add to what Carl said there. If you ask those questions, be open to receiving answers. Because if you just go out and get anything but you're closed off, well, then, of course, you're not going to get anything. It's you mentioned before RAM, you know that there's we're in this state at the moment, and it's been really challenging for years. To me, that's a combination of the collective saying, I don't want life to be like this anymore. Yeah, I would love to be different. Because when that happens from an internal and a personal perspective, you tend to Your life tends to shake up when you make a commitment that I'm not doing this anymore and you seek other answers then you will be given you seek other questions. You seek answers, you ask better questions and you get better answers, whether there's a rapid change and you would usually has some sort of disable upheaval in your life that unfolds, which you feel like everything's falling apart, but actually, it's just clearing the way for everything to fall into place. Well, it's my belief or knowing or knowledge as you talk about that. When When enough people have that decision that we're not going to do this anymore, well, then there's gonna be upheaval, there's gonna be a whole thing shaken up, so that we can individually and collectively land in a better place. I remember having this conversation with my mom, when, when there was, you know, people who were freaking out when Donald Trump was running for Republican candidate, and people making all these different, Waller mean, or this an artist saying my mum actually referenced it. Not so long ago. It's like, if this is what it takes for the world to change, well, then this is what it takes. Don't try and decide whether this is right or wrong, or feel you need to control the outcome or tell everyone whether he's good, bad, indifferent, whatever, just allow things to unfold. Yet to help answer the questions that you've put out there.

Well, it's interesting. You mentioned Donald Trump, I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm a I'm a big fan of the book. All right. whether, you know, that's irrelevant, but I, I thought like him, I liked his policies. I love the way he is. I love the hardest and the brashness of the man. I just, you know, the No, the no political correctness, the No, you know, BS that goes with it. I kind of like it, I always have. But once again, going back from my perspective, when you can go from a universal perspective, or a god perspective, but from a god perspective. I totally believe and I started preaching this, and I've got, I can go back to some my old Facebook post, before that God was awakening the world. And it wasn't necessarily waking the world to him as such. But there he was awakening the world to what was going on. All right. I remember, several years prior to probably quite a few years before Donald Trump actually ran. God spoke to me and I shared it in a meeting. And I said, I saw a vision. And it was like, these old buildings. And there was sand or cover, he couldn't see him and he was blowing the sand off. And he spoke to me in that moment and said, I'm sending it and I'd be honest, I still don't really know what the east winds mean, I tried to study it. And but didn't. We said, I'm flying in the east winds. And some of the listeners might actually have what it was in the east winds. The East. West. Yep, so east winds. So I'm sending in the east winds, and I'm uncovering everything. And that was prior to Donald Trump running. He comes in. And to those who a lot of people woke up in that period, a lot of this stuff, even like the awakened people we speak now they don't have to have an in spiritual context. But they they're awakened to the rights and wrongs of this world at the moment. All right, there was something when he ran, whether you like him or not, something went off in his world that caused chaos. And he started off with the media, they just went crazy. That the hatred for that for one man, whether they liked him or not, to hate someone that much and to then feed a population who was so and that awakened also not that that is waken people to the run of the political world, but awakened to the awakened a lot of people to the thought process that the media have a lot more control over people's thought processes than what they actually realize. are starting to wake up to that. So they'll get angry, and they'll work and I'm like, What are you angry for? And I like and then they definitely were the ones who stopped and thought actually couldn't figure out why they are angry. Because they're just like, oh, because a lot of them were just lawyers, you know. And so the so we see that next continued on

you yeah, I see that it's been that's been happening throughout history, when people will reach a point of disillusionment. Like there was Brexit in the UK there was you look at the debacle that's politics in this country, where they just all become the same, the same beast and, and people are going like, what are we doing? This is like, just about every person you speak to says how it's, you know that they're not doing a great job and also that you know, they're they're dodgy is anything but then on the other hand, they want to buy into the bits they want to buy into. Let everyone have their own path. But don't try and project what you think it should be, like we said, because they're having their own emotional reaction, they're being triggered by something. And then they're trying to find that often everyone comes back to what we've probably been theme of, of the talk is, if you're looking for a deeper connection, you'll find it. But ultimately, it's got to come back to your own individual experience.

Certainly, yeah. Yep, sir. Yeah.

Cow, fascinating chat. And I love going down these different paths that are unique. And that's why I love sharing people's stories, because we get a unique way of seeing in a lot of ways are similar contexts helping people to, to move through whatever it is that's keeping them stuck. I thank you so much for sharing. I know you said you're going through a bit of a you're re envisioning your your whole mission. Now, whether you call that business or you whatever you call it, but But what is it that you want to bring to the world? And where can people find out more about this unprecedented?

You're bringing now Yeah, at the moment, just my own name Cal Pickering, on Facebook, is the place to be right now. And, and I've got I've got Tik Tok and Instagram and all that, that Facebook is where I'm going to focus more paramount time and energy at the moment. And then of course, advance that out, probably to other social media, with short form videos. For what I want, I kind of actually had to ask this question myself the other day, which is a really interesting question. What am I? What am I trying to one? Personally, for me, I only want to do what God wants me to do. So that's, that's who I'm trying to please. And I'm already understand that he's already well pleased. But out of that, I want to be that person. So that's cool that what he wants from me is to speak the truth. The one word that he's always said to me, God has always spoken to me and other people said this, to me, is to be his voice. So in other words, to speak the truth that He gives me to speak. So I'm finding at the moment that truth is actually highlighting the wrongs of certain certain things. So to bring truth forth, people have to be aware of what is actually not right. Yep. And so like you said, Yeah, to awaken people, sometimes we just got to, you know, we've got to just, they've got to be open and hear the truth. But someone's got to hear it a couple of times as well. So, you know, I'll talk reference a church quite a bit, because that's probably will I get, and that's where a couple of come from my background really predominantly. And that way like all of us, we we do want to better human connectivity, we do want a better human experience. We do I want everyone to be free from the financial burdens of this world. Because once again, the root of all evil is finances. Yet finances aren't a problem in the right hands. So I'm understand I mean, I hate this decrepit world, where finances is such a controlling aspect of what we do on a daily basis. And so is there a better world that we can create out of that, that's yet to be seen? Don't get me wrong, there are things a lot of people coming up with different ideas on that. So I know this is a bit long winded but the reality of it is everything comes out of my core being of wanting to be his vessel and voice and present truth to what he wants me to how he wants me to present it to his world and that's it.

Love it. To me there's definitely a better world coming. Like why believe that? It's not like the the doomsday is and the people that say it's going to be it's going to be this and it's going to be this this like, what why? Why is that your belief to me that stuck in a fear response or a or an anger response or some other instead of actually choosing a love response, which is we'll find a way because humanity always has and because of every humans desire for what you said their connectivity. So, so color I thank you for sharing. We're going to add something else just in

not draw. I think a lot of those beliefs come from the original understanding we come from a church Christian Judeo background. And so those a lot of those beliefs and they still carry on throughout the churches today. They come from those backgrounds where they believed in an end time where everything was going to court go chaos. Everything was going to be. And it wasn't going to culminate until we saw the return of Jesus Christ. Now, that was the original, probably thought process going back to when, you know, we became nations, you know, Australia was created under a Judeo Christian sort of style enterprise, you know, whatever, same as America, same as most of Western society. And those thought processes would have continued through. I've just shut tell during the hour real revealing of Jesus Christ is actually in instinctively and Jewish. And it's actually within its within, and where the living expression, Scott and what you're saying is sorry, I'm going going on right now. But the really all it is, is this world is coming into a better place. It is coming into a better place. All right, and the take away being responsible, through belief that he's the only one who can save it is being irresponsible, really to take away any responsibility to what this world has gone through. All right. So as humans, like you said, we rise up. I'm a big believer in God rises up the right people in the right places, you know, you're in your place, I'm in my place. There's so many others who are speaking the same language right now. And together, there is a whole new world being created. And and the chaos that we're seeing right now is the good versus evil. That's all happening. And that's actually deliberate. And it's for a purpose. But on the other side of it will be an amazing world. And I, you know, that's going to be you know, I think we're going to I think we're going to be free as people. We're going to be a lot freer. the burdens of life that we have today aren't going to be the same.

I feel that that was my favorite part of the chat was bringing that back to Jesus returns through the intuition. It's like he's already here. Right?

Well, he is he's going through us everything's great to get through. And we carry that spirit. Yeah. And we are delivering expression.

Yep. Beautiful, cow, very unique perspective for this podcast. But I thank you, I think anyone has grown up in a church environment or have been in a church environment, we really value what you brought to the table. To me, you've struck something which is at the essence of of spirituality, however you want to look at, it's that deeper connection within a deeper connection to a higher power. And for those of us that believe in God, I like I like how Alan Watts put it, God in the devil, just remove, change two letters, and it's good and evil, as you pointed out before, it's like whatever word you want to put to it. It's a Yeah, it's a fantastic way of, of you describing it for for people who will, if they've been in that background, or maybe they're just curious will relate to a lot of what you said. So thank you, Carla. Appreciate it.

No problems. And thank you again for having me. It's been really good. Really good. So you're welcome. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Cheers. Thank you.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Grief Code podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Please share it with a friend or family member that you know would benefit from hearing it too. If you are truly ready to heal your unresolved or unknown grief, let's chat, email me at info at in Hawkins coaching.com. You can also stay connected with me by joining the Grief Code community at Ian Hawkins coaching.com forward slash The Grief Code and remember, so that I can help even more people to heal. Please subscribe and leave a review on your favorite podcast platform.