Shownotes
The salient point of this podcast episode revolves around the recent Masters tournament and its implications for notable players, particularly focusing on the performances of Justin Rose and Rory McIlroy. I engage in a dialogue with Gary Van Sickle, renowned for his exceptional writing in the realm of golf, to dissect the events and outcomes of the Masters. We contemplate the hypothetical scenarios that could have significantly altered the narrative, especially regarding Rose's near victories. Additionally, we explore the evolving dynamics within the PGA Tour, including the return of players from the LIV Golf circuit and the challenges posed by the changing landscape of professional golf. The episode encapsulates a comprehensive examination of the interplay between skill, luck, and the pressures faced by golfers in today’s competitive environment.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Weston Kia
- Birdie Ball
- Snell Golf
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
It's time for Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:Join Jeff Tracy as he explores the.
Speaker A:Golfing lifestyle and tries to keep it.
Speaker B:In the short grass for the hackers, new sweepers and turf spankers.
Speaker B:Here's Jeff, Everybody.
Speaker B:Welcome to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:I'm JT fan favorite, coming back with us today, gonna give us his master's report, and we've got some other topics to talk about.
Speaker B:Gary Van Sickle, who is synonymous with the most excellent writing in golf, as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker B:So there you go, Gary.
Speaker B:Welcome back, buddy.
Speaker A:That's a pretty good intro.
Speaker A:If only it was true.
Speaker B:I think it's true.
Speaker B:I love the stuff you write.
Speaker B:First off, what was your general overview of the Masters?
Speaker A:You know, I've been thinking about it a little bit recently, and do you realize, you know, I like to do the what could have happened, coulda, shoulda would have happened.
Speaker A:If you think about it, there's a pretty good chance that Justin Rose probably should have won the last two Masters.
Speaker A:He certainly could have.
Speaker A:And, you know, go back here and imagine if he.
Speaker A:Imagine if Rory loses the Masters in a playoff after missing the green at 18 with a sand wedge.
Speaker A:Imagine what we'd be talking about Rory right now for the last year.
Speaker A:And then he.
Speaker A:If you, you know, I mean, he didn't play tremendous on the last night.
Speaker A:He played okay.
Speaker A:The other guys just played worse, which is kind of a.
Speaker A:A normal way to win a Masters, but.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Justin Rose was so close to winning two in a row.
Speaker A:I think that's what stands out.
Speaker A:Even though we're all going to be reveling in Rory's two wins in a row.
Speaker A:They were almost two Justin Rose wins in a row, but they aren't.
Speaker A:So, you know, Rory is cemented his legacy, as far as I'm concerned, as the greatest European player ever.
Speaker A:Sorry, Sir Nick.
Speaker A:But he never won the Grand Slam and Rory did, and he's halfway to another one.
Speaker A:So I, I think the fun part for everybody watching was when a guy like Rory wins, you feel like you watched history versus when you see some.
Speaker A:When you see Trevor Immelman, when you go, well, that was nice for him.
Speaker A:But if it felt like we saw history again, so that, that was a plus.
Speaker B:You know, Gary, speaking of Immelman, I don't know, I've never met him.
Speaker B:Seems like a nice guy, at least the way he comes across on the television.
Speaker B:I had two different club pros over the years.
Speaker B:When you know, you're there, you're talking, you know, I mean, what do you think about the Masters?
Speaker B:And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:And both of them said these exact words.
Speaker B:I don't know, maybe you wrote these words years ago, but they said, who do you think most represents catching lightning in a bottle as far as their win at the ma?
Speaker B:And both of them said Immelman.
Speaker B:So that's a footnote.
Speaker B:Doesn't really mean anything.
Speaker B:Just the fact that it's a thought out there.
Speaker B:Put it that way.
Speaker A:So look, anyone can win the Masters, sort of with the right weather.
Speaker A:We always talk about it's a long hitters course and this and that, and it's a second shot course if you have conditions.
Speaker A:As I recall, the year Immelman1, I think it was kind of cold.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the ball wasn't rolling out a long way.
Speaker A:So it's kind of, I don't want to say everybody laid up, but the length advantage was gone.
Speaker A:Now it's kind of a short iron contest or the years old one.
Speaker A:You get the green so firm that nobody can hit him, nobody can hold them.
Speaker A:It becomes a chipping contest.
Speaker A:Well, who do you think is going to win that?
Speaker A:So we saw, we saw Sergio Garcia and Vijay Singh, two guys who struggled with a putter.
Speaker A:And Sergio had all the demons at Augusta.
Speaker A:They both got their Masters.
Speaker A:Ernie Ells didn't and Monty didn't.
Speaker A:So you've got to time it right.
Speaker A:You know, that one, that one shot you save, you know, Justin Rose, if you don't miss too short putts every day inside of five feet, you, you've won a couple Masters by now.
Speaker A:And there's so much luck into it that goes into it.
Speaker A:You got to play well.
Speaker A:But one or two shots always wind up deciding it.
Speaker B:I always like the conversations with going into the Masters.
Speaker B:Who are you going to pick?
Speaker B:You know, who's the favorite?
Speaker B:Schoffley, Scheffler, Morikawa, you know, moths, mots, any of those guys.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And then it comes up and of course they, they include Rory in that and, but most of them don't talk about Justin Rose.
Speaker B:He would be kind of their dark horse.
Speaker B:The guy's what, 45 years old and he's still playing lights out most of the time.
Speaker B:I, I don't understand that.
Speaker A:So I, I, I could be wrong, but I think on the stats, I think he may be, has led after the first round more times than anybody else.
Speaker A:He's put a lot of low rounds up there.
Speaker A:I mean low being relative.
Speaker A:67, 68.
Speaker A:Sure, he can just play that golf course, but you know, you never know what to expect.
Speaker A:Look, I think I thought John Rom was playing so great.
Speaker A:He was going to come in there, and I thought he had a chip on his shoulder, he had something to prove, and he was lucky to make the cut.
Speaker A:You can't predict the Masters, and that's, you know, it's got that modern video game feel to it.
Speaker A:To me, it's kind of.
Speaker A:It reminds me of the players Sawgrass, only in the fact where you can make birdies and eagles, but the penalty is bogeys and doubles or megas.
Speaker A:There's enough water in the back nine at Augusta.
Speaker A:You know, it's like walking a tightrope when you're under pressure.
Speaker A:Just like.
Speaker A:Just like playing the back nine at the.
Speaker A:At Sawgrass is.
Speaker A:Big numbers come into play, and that's why so many players have a chance, and that's why it's so exciting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I love it.
Speaker B:I. I think I've said this before to you, but that's one of the two tournaments I actually take time off to watch.
Speaker B:I don't take the whole day off, but I take a chunk out so I can watch three or four hours of the Masters coverage.
Speaker B:And I've got it on my phone.
Speaker B:I've got it on the.
Speaker B:And my desktop in my office, because that and the.
Speaker B:And the Open are the two that I just really like to watch.
Speaker A:I was really hoping you said the Zuri Classic.
Speaker A:What's the other one?
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:No, it was a close third.
Speaker B:It was really a close third.
Speaker B:So anyway, we got a couple of minutes before we got to go to break.
Speaker B:Gary.
Speaker B:They're always making changes at Augusta, always.
Speaker B:And now they've got the new player.
Speaker B:What do they call it?
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Not the player hospitality, but they opened that up from last year, I think, and they're just going to keep building until they have their own little town within a town.
Speaker A:I think eventually they're going to have housing for the players so they never have to leave the grounds all week if they don't want to.
Speaker A:But we're not there yet.
Speaker A:They don't want to tell us anything about that.
Speaker A:And, you know, we'll never know what they look like other than some photos.
Speaker A:Now, they.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:They're trying to provide the ultimate in comfort for the players.
Speaker A:And really the families, wives and families probably didn't have a great place to go and hang out during the tournament.
Speaker A:The clubhouse, there's members and everything in there, and maybe this is a way to separate the member, the player families From.
Speaker A:From the members and give more, you know, just the way the.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They kind of move the media out of the clubhouse dining.
Speaker A:They're trying to make it better for their members and their.
Speaker A:Whatever, priority ticket holders, whatever you want to call that.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:Give them more access.
Speaker A:And the media access keeps getting less and less, which, you know, you're going to read the same quotes from everybody and everybody's story.
Speaker A:We're all getting the same information.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's hard to really go out and get other stuff.
Speaker A:You can, but it's.
Speaker A:It's not easy.
Speaker A:And that's the way they want it.
Speaker A:They don't want you looking around the corner, looking under the carpets, looking in the closets.
Speaker A:They want you, you know, drinking the Kool Aid and writing about how great everybody is and all that.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's hard not to enjoy the Masters, but it is turning.
Speaker A:It has turned into kind of packed journalism, like a Rose bowl or a Super bowl or whatever.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:I kind of think that eventually they'll build you guys an upscale Motel 6 in Savannah and put you all there, so.
Speaker A:Well, look, they already moved the media off the grounds.
Speaker A:They built this.
Speaker A:I call it the Press palace because it's probably a 50, $60 million building.
Speaker A:They built it across where Berkman's Road was.
Speaker A:So it was built on.
Speaker A:It wasn't on the grounds of Augusta.
Speaker A:Now they moved the fences and all that, so now we're on the grounds.
Speaker A:But now we need a shuttle.
Speaker A:Shuttle ride to get down anywhere near the first tee or the clubhouse or the locker room or anybody.
Speaker A:I don't even know if we're in the Loud.
Speaker A:In the locker room.
Speaker A:I don't think we are anymore, but.
Speaker A:Well, no players are hanging out in there, so it's kind of pointless.
Speaker A:But yeah, yeah, they've shoved us out of the way because they wanted that area where the media center was so they could build their Disneyland for shoppers, you know, that golf shop.
Speaker A:I mean, how much business.
Speaker A:They must do.
Speaker A:They must do.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I can't even guess.
Speaker A:20 Million?
Speaker A:50 Million?
Speaker B:Oh, I think it's higher than that.
Speaker B:I think it's probably closer to 100 million.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:Because we'll talk about that in the next segment.
Speaker B:Gary and I are going to take a break.
Speaker B:You're going to be back grilling at the green.
Speaker B:Gary Van Sickle, who I always look forward to right after this.
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Speaker B:Hey welcome back to grilling.
Speaker B:It's green I JT we want to thank the folks at Birdie Ball, John Breaker and his family back there.
Speaker B:They've been supporting me in all my endeavors for a long time and we appreciate that.
Speaker B:Go to birdieball.com today we're talking with Gary Van Sickle.
Speaker B:Like I keep saying, one of my favorites he is.
Speaker B:We have some great conversations, not only on the air but off the air and I like it because Gary actually gets out there and plays.
Speaker B:A lot of the guys that write stories anymore don't do that.
Speaker B:But he just was playing earlier this week, got his butt kicked by the wind.
Speaker B:But he, he did play.
Speaker B:That was me yesterday.
Speaker B:How did the fans welcome?
Speaker B:I'm sure they were gracious.
Speaker B:They always are there.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That comes on the instructions on the back of the ticket.
Speaker B:But like Brooks Koepka, was he well received coming back?
Speaker B:I would think that they are so gracious down there that they didn't have a problem with it.
Speaker A:I think the Koepka thing is already over.
Speaker A:It's already gone by the boards.
Speaker A:He just seems like Brooks Koepka major winner.
Speaker A:It'd be.
Speaker A:He could really, you know, you can do a Kobe Bryant, you can fix everything by winning.
Speaker A:And he's been playing, he's been playing better, but he hasn't won yet.
Speaker A:I think the focus is way has gone past him and gone past Patrick Reed.
Speaker A:They're basically feel like PGA tour players again.
Speaker A:And now the focus is Ron Rahm and DeChambeau who are the malcontent members of live.
Speaker A:So those are the guys but I don't, I think, I think from the fan standpoint they're just happy to have these guys back.
Speaker A:I don't think the fans, they probably cared while those guys were gone at live.
Speaker A:I don't think the initial feeling of being betrayed, these guys are traitors.
Speaker A:I think that's kind of faded over the last couple of years.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:One of these Guys want to come back.
Speaker A:I mean, Koepka's doing what he's got to do, and the players are happy because anytime he gets in the field, they have to add two more spots.
Speaker A:So he's getting a couple more guys in the field.
Speaker A:He's not taking up spots from somebody else.
Speaker A:So it's been a win win with he and Reed coming back.
Speaker A:And you will see what happens with the whole live thing and In Rahman, really, DeChambeau is the only guy as good a player as Rahm is.
Speaker A:He's a nice guy, but I don't think he really moves the needle and drives TV numbers or I don't think people go buy tickets because Rom is going to play.
Speaker A:Tyson probably is.
Speaker A:If you're, if you're honest, Bryson's probably the number one guy in golf who would actually sell tickets and move the needle.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm not counting the retirees like Tiger and Phil.
Speaker B:Sure, sure.
Speaker A:But Bryson moves the needle more than anybody.
Speaker A:Rory's probably second, and Scheffler is probably third.
Speaker A:After that, I don't think anybody moves a needle.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And I kept.
Speaker A:His cap is fine.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's back in action and he's got his.
Speaker A:His most polite face he can muster on.
Speaker B:Well, and I think we're going to talk about live in the next segment, Gary, but I think if DeChambeau lives on pretty shaky ground right now as far as I'm concerned, but we'll see how that works out.
Speaker B:Things can change if you're a betting man.
Speaker B:I wouldn't bet on it, but anyway.
Speaker B:But I think if Bryson leaves live, that's kind of it for live.
Speaker B:I don't think.
Speaker B:Like you were just saying, Rom doesn't have the draw that Bryson does.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And then you lost.
Speaker B:Reed and Koepka have come back and there's some other European players there and stuff.
Speaker B:I got to quit hitting my microphone here, but to me, and not that I paid that much attention to it, but Bryson is still the, the biggest draw at live.
Speaker A:Oh, he's.
Speaker A:I, I would say if he was on this, on the PGA Tour.
Speaker A:I remember when he gained all the weight and was hitting at 390 yards.
Speaker A:Yeah, he was the show on the PGA Tour.
Speaker A:He was.
Speaker A:People went crazy about watching him.
Speaker A:Like, I remember people following him at Bay Hill.
Speaker A:They couldn't wait till they got over to number.
Speaker A:Is it number six, the big half moon around the lake, See if he can drive a green in the practice round, a par 5.
Speaker A:He was the big draw when he Was super heavy and he's still a big hitter.
Speaker A:He does all the Internet stuff.
Speaker A:He's got a whole other audience that follows him.
Speaker A:I would put him right up against Rory.
Speaker A:I said I would rank him ahead of Rory in moving the needle, but he moves the needle and yeah, without him, I mean, if you want to really be unimpressed, go read a roster of who's playing on LIV Golf.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know Charles Howell, Is he still alive?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, he's still out there.
Speaker A:Ian Poulter, Lee Westwood, I mean, Charles Schwartzel.
Speaker B:It's kind of a nice.
Speaker B:It's kind of a nice retirement program for European players.
Speaker A:Yeah, a lot.
Speaker A:They picked up a lot of guys who were past their primes who wanted a retirement plan, and it worked great.
Speaker A:Look, I, I kept my cap to every guy who took that live money because you would have been, if, if you needed the money in some way, you'd have been stupid not to take it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I think I figured out that, well, Koepka, if we, if, if Koepka's numbers are right, I think I figured out that while Scotty scheffler was winning 19 times in five seasons and making 75 million, Koepka made 120 million and won like once on live.
Speaker A:So financially, they all made the right decision.
Speaker A:But you can see the top guys, the meaninglessness of the events wore those guys down.
Speaker A:I think that's probably why kept getting play better.
Speaker A:Like, what am I doing here in a team thing?
Speaker A:And Rob, same thing.
Speaker A:You notice this year as soon as they got ranking points again and went to a four rounds instead of three rounds.
Speaker A:Well, Rahman DeChambeau have been winning left and right now that.
Speaker A:Now it matters a little bit.
Speaker A:And four rounds those.
Speaker A:The cream rises to the top.
Speaker A:It's a big difference.
Speaker A:Think how many, how many tournaments would have been different if they ended after 54 holes on the PGA Tour?
Speaker A:Different list of winners this year on the PGA Tour, a lot of those guys didn't.
Speaker A:Didn't hang on to win.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker A:Where were we, Jeff?
Speaker B:Well, I just said that it was.
Speaker B:We were talking about the draw, Bryson versus Rahm, and then I said, you know, they got a lot of European players.
Speaker B:That was a nice retirement program for them.
Speaker B:I personally think that.
Speaker B:And I had predicted this when the first came out because I, like I said I did some stuff with the Saudis a long time ago.
Speaker B:They treated me well, but I said they would get bored and if they lost money, they would do that.
Speaker B:And it's happening.
Speaker B:So I'm not Kreskin or Karnak or any of those guys, but it was just business to them.
Speaker A:There was never a business model for this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Exists because of the whim of one guy.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:One got one.
Speaker A:Saudi guy wanted to buy his seat at the table in pro golf.
Speaker A:You know, he looks at the Masters, he wants to have a Masters.
Speaker A:He didn't know any better.
Speaker A:He bought this.
Speaker A:And you can debate what they've done well, what they haven't done well, who they have, who they don't have.
Speaker A:None of that matters.
Speaker A:What matters is the guy who's whim.
Speaker A:He's like, yeah, it's over.
Speaker A:He's not interested anymore.
Speaker A:And the other thing is, no matter how rich you are, rich guys don't like losing money, even if it's in a fund, even if you're worth trillions.
Speaker A:$5 Billion is they spend 5.3 billion is that's actual money.
Speaker A:And what do they have to show for it?
Speaker A:They got Bryson Dechambeau and Cam Smith and John Rom and a bunch of.
Speaker A:So, yeah, the whim is over.
Speaker A:They're getting out of.
Speaker A:They've done the same thing in auto racing and horse racing and women's golf.
Speaker A:They come and go.
Speaker A:You know, it's kind of a constant Sports Washington thing where they.
Speaker A:They try a different sport for a while and that was it.
Speaker A:So, yeah, yeah, it's all been a nice win.
Speaker A:Those guys made a lot of money.
Speaker A:A lot of guys in a PGA Tour made a lot more money.
Speaker A:And now the PGA Tour is in a bad business situation because they have matched the live fund.
Speaker A:I mean, they're in a unsustainable business model right now.
Speaker A:That's why they'd let the foxes into the hen house, the investors, you know.
Speaker B:Yep, yep.
Speaker A:The venture guys are now own a piece of it.
Speaker A:And now the PGA Tour has to be run for profit because the investors demand it.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:You're seeing all these changes that I think are bad on the PG Tour.
Speaker A:They just asked both of the tour stops in Hawaii.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Well, I don't know.
Speaker A:They were in primetime tv, but I guess, you know, really what they want, they want every event to be a major to be like a miss.
Speaker A:They're gonna have four majors and 15 significant signature events.
Speaker A:Everything can't be a signature event.
Speaker A:Yeah, you have to work that way in golf.
Speaker B:You just have to go play a weekend sometimes without all the hoopla.
Speaker B:We're gonna take a break, have some.
Speaker A:Place for everybody else to play, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Have to create the tour with John Deere and all the tournaments that make it up every week.
Speaker A:Can't be a big deal.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Gary and I are going to take a break.
Speaker B:We're going to be back really into green.
Speaker B:We're also a big part of Golf Newsnet, so check us out on there.
Speaker B:We'll be right back.
Speaker B:Hey, everybody, it's jt.
Speaker B:You know, I talk about Painted Hills all the time and we always say beef the way nature intended.
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Speaker B:Put a big bright smile on your face and whoever's at your dinner table will have a big bright smile on their face.
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Speaker B:Welcome back to as we call it around here, gatg.
Speaker B:I'm Jeff Tracy along with Gary Van Sickle.
Speaker B:Our first, I'm going to tell you this, our first event of the North Valley Challenge, the series I helped put together.
Speaker B:Actually, I did most of it Pat on my own back there.
Speaker B:Happens this weekend in my hometown here.
Speaker B:And then we've got three more.
Speaker B:If you want to find out more information, go to northvalleychallenge.com we got some great prizes and stuff coming up over the series, which takes us clear into August.
Speaker B:So I'll be keeping you informed.
Speaker B:Informed about that.
Speaker B:We're talking with my buddy Gary Van Sickle today, formerly of Sports Illustrated, the Muck Rack.
Speaker B:God, how many things have you written for, like a ton?
Speaker A:Well, I still contribute to SI.com, the first call.
Speaker A:I'm a regular contributor.
Speaker A:Some of those appear on Substack.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:I write for sometimes for New England dot, Golf Pro Golf Weekly, the Hyphen, golf-ow.com and also have a podcast, the Golf Show 2.0 on YouTube TV.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I'm kind of, you know, and I'm writing equipment stuff every other month for the Met Golfer.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Started doing that.
Speaker B:So there you go.
Speaker B:Gary Woodland, Great story.
Speaker B:I think it's a great story.
Speaker B:It's a great comeback story.
Speaker B:It's somebody that we always like it in this country.
Speaker B:We love it and I think most people around the world like it where, you know, over overcame adversity, hung in there.
Speaker B:It's still a challenge for him.
Speaker B:He still plays well and he proved that a couple weeks ago before the Masters, you know.
Speaker B:So what's the take inside the ropes on Gary's comeback?
Speaker A:Well, his story is Incredible.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:He's in a place where nobody can really imagine or picture what's going through his head.
Speaker A:I mean, he had brain surgery.
Speaker A:Things are messed up.
Speaker A:You know, he was talking about how he felt.
Speaker A:Keep the people away from me.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:People made him.
Speaker A:Just being around made him nervous.
Speaker A:Imagine that being a golfer playing in front of people.
Speaker A:You know, it's a mental health issue and it's a weird one.
Speaker A:It's not like some kind of dependency problem.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know, It's.
Speaker A:We don't really understand.
Speaker A:But for him to overcome that and get back and you know, he said like, I think he swabbed his quote.
Speaker A:I felt like people were trying to kill me or something like that, as you know, geez, that's a tough spot to be in.
Speaker A:And he went on and won.
Speaker A:So I mean that, that really probably.
Speaker A:I don't know how anybody's going to top that as a story of the year for a winner.
Speaker A:I guess it could be top, but him winning, I think is.
Speaker A:I, I would rank that as the predict that's going to be the best tournament of the year just because of what he, what he overcame to do it.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, it's an incredible story.
Speaker B:And then we've got.
Speaker B:Go ahead.
Speaker A:Sorry, I was just going to say I just did a story in a similar vein.
Speaker A:There was a journeyman who was from Indiana, Pennsylvania, Steve Wheatcroft.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he wrote a book.
Speaker A:It's called Range Balls and Cocktails.
Speaker A:One's too many, ten's not enough.
Speaker A:He got off the tour probably at age 42 and he got a financial job.
Speaker A:And after a year or two of that, all of a sudden the deal went south and he knocked down a vodka.
Speaker A:He got a text at breakfast that his big deal was off.
Speaker A:He's going to get a commission.
Speaker A:And it just, it threw him for a loop.
Speaker A:And he knocked down of orange juice and vodka and it felt pretty good.
Speaker A:He knocked down another one and then for the next two years he just was a functioning alcoholic.
Speaker A:So he wrote about all this stuff in his book, all his mini tour adventures and then how it just went down the drain and he became alcohol dependent.
Speaker A:So he went to rehab.
Speaker A:And the big moment was he was.
Speaker A:While he was in rehab for 30 days on the weekend, he would commandeer the TV and watch golf.
Speaker A:And he's watching Colonial.
Speaker A:And that's when they put up a picture of Grayson Murray, who.
Speaker A:He committed suicide.
Speaker A:And it just made Steve feel like, wow, he had just won in Hawaii.
Speaker A:He was engaged.
Speaker A:He had mental health issues.
Speaker A:We all knew about it.
Speaker A:If he can't make it, what am I doing here after two weeks thinking I'm ready to get.
Speaker A:To get out?
Speaker A:So, anyway, Steve got out.
Speaker A:He cleaned up his act.
Speaker A:He's doing great.
Speaker A:And he started a thing called the Mulligan Foundation.
Speaker A:And the whole goal of that is to help Tour players with mental health dependency issues of any kind, you know, and Gary Woodland certainly would fall under that category.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:And Steve said, when I had this problem, the Tour had things there.
Speaker A:But he said, I didn't feel comfortable talking to some guy I don't know somewhere.
Speaker A:He wound up calling some couple former Tour players who'd had similar problems, and it said they were open to being contacted.
Speaker A:So he created this foundation for guys like Gary Woodland.
Speaker A:And, you know, and Steve actually went on about Tiger woods for a while, saying, you know, when you've been there, been dependent, you know that look.
Speaker A:And he said, you know, on our podcast, he said, you see the look.
Speaker A:Every time I've seen Tiger the last five years, he's looked like he's high.
Speaker A:And because I know the look, because I had it.
Speaker A:So that's an issue that's separate from Gary Woodland, but they both fall under mental health.
Speaker A:And I think there's probably a lot of guys on the PGA Tour, that lifestyle is not conducive to great mental health.
Speaker A:Your whole career rides on your score.
Speaker A:You're probably out at a Tour event by yourself for a week, and then you go to another Tour event.
Speaker A:Unless your wife's able to travel.
Speaker A:It's not the most glorious life you could imagine.
Speaker A:It looks great.
Speaker A:I mean, really, if somebody said, you can make $12 million a year, but you're going to have to be away from home 30 weeks, I don't know, would you do it?
Speaker A:Or maybe you're only going to make 5 million here.
Speaker A:Does that still sound like a fun job?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It's not easy, and it's not for everybody.
Speaker B:I kind of did that in my previous life, where I was on the road 30 to 35 weeks a year is very hard.
Speaker B:Very hard.
Speaker B:It's very hard to keep your thoughts straight when you.
Speaker B:You go out and you're working 12, 14, 16 hours a day, and then you come back to a hotel room all by yourself.
Speaker B:It's very difficult.
Speaker B:I. I have empathy for those guys.
Speaker A:You know, you wake up in the morning and you're like, I don't even know where I am.
Speaker A:What city am I in?
Speaker A:You have to think for a minute.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:I, I read Steve's book.
Speaker B:In fact, I'd like to get him on this show because I thought it was a good book, it was a good accounting.
Speaker B:Had some funny stuff in the, in interesting humanistic stuff in the front.
Speaker B:And then he got serious towards the end.
Speaker B:But I thought it was well written.
Speaker B:And it takes a lot, I think, for people to open up like that.
Speaker B:You know, you got to give him a lot of credit, a lot of credit for that because you're just kind of laying it all out there.
Speaker B:And as far as the look, he's talking about Tiger.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've seen that.
Speaker B:I didn't have the dependency problems, but I was around people that did, and.
Speaker B:All you got to do is look at them.
Speaker B:That's all you got to do is look at them.
Speaker B:And you know that there's too much in Tigers.
Speaker B:Trying to walk a tightrope, which I think he fell off of.
Speaker B:And I'm a Tiger fan.
Speaker B:With all the surgeries and all the.
Speaker A:Pain of that car crash, I mean, that injuries in that leg, think, look, there are how many million people every year get caught up on painkillers because they're in a lot of pain after some surgery or whatever.
Speaker A:And it's very understandable.
Speaker A:It's almost surprising it's not a bigger problem because doctors love prescribing stuff.
Speaker A:You're in pain, it's not fun.
Speaker A:And if you're in pain for 48 straight hours, you're ready to check out, and so you'll kind of do almost anything.
Speaker A:So I, I don't, I, I understand how anybody can get, can get.
Speaker A:You know, you go in for a knee replacement and it doesn't go well.
Speaker A:And you know, it's, it's a, it's a slippery slope.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is.
Speaker B:It's a very slippery slope.
Speaker B:I got lucky with my stuff because I had great doctors, the follow ups were great, and, and I did a lot of research beforehand, but that's a different story.
Speaker B:And, but you got to be careful of that stuff.
Speaker B:It's great if used as directed and for its primary intent.
Speaker B:If you decide you're going to have a party one day, that party can turn into 10 years and you don't know it well.
Speaker A:I think the difficult part is what if your physical problem never gets better and you have a pain level of one scale of 1 to 10.
Speaker A:What if your pain level is 7, 24 hours a day?
Speaker A:24, 7, 365.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:How do you deal with that?
Speaker A:That is, that's, that's a difficult situation to be in.
Speaker B:And I think that's where Tiger's at.
Speaker A:Yeah, I, I agree.
Speaker B:You know, between the back, the knees, the ankle, the foot from the car wreck and all that stuff.
Speaker B:And well, just six weeks ago he, he had another back surgery, another nerve deal back there.
Speaker B:I mean, and, and he, that's never going to get better as you age and you, your body starts to break down.
Speaker B:Even as fit as he is, that, you know, when I had my back rebuilt, I don't want to go off of the rails here because we got to take a break.
Speaker B:But I'll tell you this, they fix the affected area and that you feel fantastic about.
Speaker B:But what they don't tell you is the area above and the area below in your spine.
Speaker B:Now that you've got a really solid 4 inch, you know, repavement job back there, the stuff that's above it and below it will start to degenerate after a while and you're headed down the same road.
Speaker B:Anyway, Gary and I gotta take a break.
Speaker B:We'll be right back with more grilling at the green after this.
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Speaker C: ales of new Kias from January: Speaker B:Hey everybody, JT here.
Speaker B:If you need something to practice with in the inclement weather, try birdie ball.
Speaker B:Go to birdieball.com check out the actual birdie balls, their packages, their putting greens, which I happen to have a couple of, and they work great.
Speaker B:Birdieball.com.
Speaker B:Welcome back to grilling.
Speaker B:It's rain on a happier note.
Speaker B:I've got Gary Van Sickle with us today.
Speaker B:We'd like to thank the folks also at Snell Golf.
Speaker B:They got new the.
Speaker B:What are they?
Speaker B:The RG3s and RG4s coming out.
Speaker B:I should actually have some next week, so go to snellgolf.com and you can pre order yours today.
Speaker B:You touched on it in the first segment and I, I kind of think it's a travesty or actually the second segment, the Hawaiian Games are gone, and I'll tell you why.
Speaker B:I live in a climate kind of like you do, that when you see those Hawaiian tournaments in January, you start to think it's golf season coming up.
Speaker B:It just something about being in the islands and blue water, all that great stuff.
Speaker B:Now they're gone.
Speaker B:And I know they probably weren't profitable or anything, but to me, it was a mistake.
Speaker A:Well, if you had sponsors who wanted to sponsor them, that's all that really matters.
Speaker A:But I don't think.
Speaker A:That's not the issue.
Speaker A:The sponsors didn't go away.
Speaker A:The price keeps getting higher because they've had to ask the sponsors to put up more because the two are mandated higher purses.
Speaker A:But look, those things were in prime time.
Speaker A:What's better than prime time golf?
Speaker A:Yesterday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday nights, you have golf in the evening.
Speaker A:And I love watching that.
Speaker A:And you're right.
Speaker A:It feels like.
Speaker A:You know, I remember back in the 80s, the Bob Hope tournament, which was always early in the year, used to be one of the highest TV ratings.
Speaker A:All the golf tournaments, mangers, people in the Midwest and the frost country, wherever that is, are anxious to see something green and watch golf.
Speaker A:So from that standpoint, you know, it's a shame they got rid of them.
Speaker A:And if I'm a PGA Tour player, there, there go.
Speaker A:How many opportunities are there just going down the drain?
Speaker A:You're trying to play for your card, there's two more weeks where they don't exist.
Speaker A:Yeah, I just don't think.
Speaker A:Less is never more.
Speaker A:No matter what you say, less is never more.
Speaker A:The LPGA tried to reframe that a decade or so ago when they were losing tournaments left and right.
Speaker A:They were down to, I don't know, 24.
Speaker A:And less is more.
Speaker A:No, it wasn't more.
Speaker A:It was just less.
Speaker A:And Brian Rolapp, the CEO, it's like he doesn't want to go up against football at all.
Speaker A:Well, they've been.
Speaker A:The Tour's been doing it for years, but now you have investors and the tournaments that don't make enough money, whatever that means, are to them a waste of time.
Speaker A:So I feel like the PGA Tours got a chance to turn into the Greg Norman Super Tour that he wanted in the mid-90s.
Speaker A:You're going to have 60 guys, a half a field playing every week the same 60 guys and everybody.
Speaker A:Everything else is the Korn Ferry Tour.
Speaker A:I mean, I just don't think it's the right way to go.
Speaker A:The smart thing Dean Beeman did years ago was the blanket.
Speaker A:That schedule, the calendar with tournaments to prevent any competition from arising.
Speaker A:They had tour used to have like 45 to 47 events, counting some unofficial ones.
Speaker A:And all those communities were happy to have them.
Speaker A:And what happened to oh yeah, isn't the PGA Tour so great raising money for the communities?
Speaker A:You just told Hawaii, well, you're not worth it.
Speaker A:We don't want to raise money for you anymore.
Speaker A:I mean, to me, once you crap on a venue like that, they don't ever want, you're never going to go back.
Speaker A:They don't want you.
Speaker A:So I think it's a mistake.
Speaker A:And I don't think those aren't the only tournaments that are going to bite the dust.
Speaker A:I think there's going to be a lot, a lot more or a number more that, you know, every tournament just can't be.
Speaker A:You know, they want to have it.
Speaker A:So the players, the top players have to play every event.
Speaker A:While you're to do that, you're going to have to get down to 15 events.
Speaker A:And really, do you only want to have a 19, 20 week golf season?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:That's not how we, that's not how the PGA Tour empire was built.
Speaker A:What change that you have to throw it out the window and start over?
Speaker A:Well, you let the venture capitalists in.
Speaker A:That's what changed.
Speaker A:And yes, to me, that's going to be the ruin of the PGA Tour one way or another.
Speaker B:Well, in there, the business model, of course, you know my background, I came from horses and shows and rodeos and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:When you had, and they still do have big sponsors like Dodge and Coors and so on down the line.
Speaker B:They wanted the more frequent rodeos, the weekend rodeos, if you will.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:They didn't all have to be Cheyenne Frontier Days or, or the Pendleton Roundup and all that.
Speaker B:Those are great events.
Speaker B:And those were kind of highlighted events, right?
Speaker B:Different parts of the season.
Speaker B:But you had events starting in January all the way through the end of October.
Speaker B:Kind of like golf, right.
Speaker B:And there was a maximum amount that the cowboys could ride in to have their points count to get into the National Finals Rodeo.
Speaker B:So that being said, what the tour seems to be doing is absolute opposite of that.
Speaker B:And as you're explaining, you know, now that how many people are going to go watch a Korn Ferry event because there's no recognizable names there, There'll be some, there'll be golf diehards like me and you and everybody else, but as far as television draw and all that, that's not going to be it.
Speaker B:And, And I don't know, it just seems kind of anticlimactical, if you will.
Speaker B:Doesn't make any sense to me, but a lot of things don't these days.
Speaker A:So, Yeah, I, I don't think it's, you know, he said scarcity roll up said scarcity is something he's looking at.
Speaker A:And, and he tried to backtrack on that because everybody assumed he meant fewer tournaments.
Speaker A:And I think he did, but he realized that was not the way to sell it.
Speaker A:But I don't know why the rank and file PGA Tour players aren't up in arms and protesting and going to the meetings and having a fit.
Speaker A:I don't know why they're letting this slide.
Speaker A:Maybe because it's already a done deal.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:But you've got a number of the top players on the board and make.
Speaker A:Helping make decisions and, you know, it's human.
Speaker A:People feather their own nests.
Speaker A:It's like you're sending lettuce by rabbit.
Speaker A:How do you think that's going to end?
Speaker A:You know, they.
Speaker A:How about the.
Speaker A:You know, they had.
Speaker A:They gave themselves a piece of the profits or percentage, whatever you call it, last year.
Speaker A:They voted themselves shares.
Speaker A:And, you know, the older guys who built the tour, Lanny Watkin, you think these guys got any of that?
Speaker A:If they did, it was a, it was a breadcrumb.
Speaker A:But Tiger and all these guys not to pick on Tiger, Tiger and all the bigger names, Rory, they all got a piece of the action.
Speaker A:And it doesn't help them if, you know, they're all invested in the tour making more money.
Speaker A:Like, how much money do you need to make?
Speaker A:I say that about the NFL all the time that I'm in Pittsburgh, the NFL draft is going on.
Speaker A:How much money do you need to make?
Speaker A:And there's no end in sight for the, for the NFL.
Speaker A:And now the Tour is turning into.
Speaker A:What else can we make money on?
Speaker A:And it goes against.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker A:I mean, it's supposed to be about the golf.
Speaker A:I'm not about everybody voting themselves.
Speaker A:It's like government.
Speaker A:Government pork.
Speaker A:Congress, everybody voting.
Speaker A:Piece of the pie.
Speaker B:Congress, raising their own pay rates and then, yeah, cutting that.
Speaker B:Anyway, Gary Van Tackle.
Speaker B:Gary's gonna stick around for after hours and we are going to continue this conversation.
Speaker B:But, Gary, thank you.
Speaker B:Always love talking to you.
Speaker B:I even got.
Speaker B:I was gonna put it on, but I didn't.
Speaker B:I even got.
Speaker B:A friend of mine brought me a master's hat.
Speaker B:I don't know if you can see that.
Speaker A:Did he bring you a master's gnome.
Speaker B:No, he didn't.
Speaker B:I don't think he.
Speaker B:But we'll work on that.
Speaker A:They were pretty.
Speaker A:I'll tell you what, they were in short supply.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's like trying to get Tickle me ammo or Cabbage patch Dolls.
Speaker A:Back in the day, it was pretty hard to get one.
Speaker A:You had to know somebody.
Speaker B:Okay, I know one of the.
Speaker A:One of the media guys was able to pick one up, and he was walking around the concession area outdoors that head back, and he didn't get very far, and somebody offered him, hey, Buddy, I got $700 cash for that gnome, right?
Speaker A:I got it in my pocket and he was telling me this story.
Speaker A:This guy was staying in my house.
Speaker A:I said, well, you took the money, right?
Speaker A:He was like, no.
Speaker A:I said, what, are you crazy?
Speaker A:It's a gnome.
Speaker A:Take the 700 bucks.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He said, yeah.
Speaker A:I wanted to, but I was thinking there's probably.
Speaker A:It's a masters.
Speaker A:There's probably cameras everywhere.
Speaker A:If I went in and used my media access to get a gnome and I come out and they see me SWAT getting that, you know, I thought it would be a bad luck.
Speaker A:I said, well, you should have told the guy to meet you in the bathroom in 10 minutes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker B:Anyway, we're gonna get out of here.
Speaker B:Thank you, Gary.
Speaker B:We'll be back next week.
Speaker B:Don't forget, first north Valley challenge event this week.
Speaker B:And until then, go out, play some gol, have some fun.
Speaker B:But most of all, be kind.
Speaker B:Take care, everybody.
Speaker B:Grilling at the green is produced by JTSD Productions, llc in association with Salem Media Group.
Speaker B:All rights reserved.
