Across Frank Zappa’s monumental body of work, he injected rock-based music with compositional techniques straight out of the modern classical handbook, as well as groundbreaking studio trickery and a teenager’s wit. To match his untamable creativity, he famously demanded an unmatched level of musical dedication from his players, and his own guitar playing balanced that discipline with off-the-rails experimentation.

When considering Zappa’s legacy as a guitarist, we can’t separate it from his work as a composer, songwriter, producer, and all-around big personality. As a listener, you can love Zappa’s chamber music and simultaneously not be able to handle his lyrics; you can adore his guitar playing but prefer he keep his opinions to himself. Our list of favorite Zappa guitar-centric recordings covers a lot of musical ground but keeps it all about his playing.

Is Frank Zappa to blame for the sound of jam bands? When was Zappa’s best decade? And we’re looking at the connection between Zappa and Phish (who one of us calls “Zappa lite”). In a bonus segment, we’re playing “Did They Get It Right?” and examining the Grammys’ former category for Best Rock Instrumental Performance.

This episode is brought to you by the Dunlop Cry Baby Wah. Visit http://jimdunlop.com for more info.

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Foreign.

Hey, this is Nick Milavoy.

And this is Jason Shadrick.

And this is the 100 Guitarists podcast, where each week we are talking about one of the 100 guitar players that we think you should know.

This week we are here to discuss the guitar playing of Frank Zappa.

Yes, I was a late comer to the Zappa party, but in retrospect, now he is one, I think one of the bigger influences on the modern jam band scene.

Because as you know, Nick, we cannot get through an episode, not a single one, without bringing it back to the jam band scene.

Sure.

That is the cornerstone of modern music.

That's what you gotta do.

That's what you gotta do.

That said, I do actually really agree with what you said.

So, you know, it's.

I mean, as I've been listening to.

Like to agree or disagree about.

Yeah.

As I've been listening to more Zappa this last week, I'm like, wow, this could.

Yeah, you're like, wow, I could hear this.

Not even light.

Not even light.

Like people think, oh, man, Fish are the next Grateful Dead.

No, I mean, culturally.

Yes, culturally, but musically, they are far more connected to Frank Zappa than the Grateful Dead.

Yeah, they're like a version.

They're like Frank Zappa for kids with better lyrics.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, I might actually be able to agree with that, to be honest.

But, you know, this is, you know, better is.

Sure, sure, There we go.

But we want you to get at us.

You can email us 100-guitarists premier guitar.com or give us a call or text.

Send this to your.

To your Zappa obsessed friend and let them help us expand our prerogative on.

On the Zappa guitar sound.

But.

But, yeah, I think that's a great way to get in touch with us.

You leave a voicemail, maybe we'll play it on the show.

Before we talk about Frank Zappa, we want to thank none other than the Dunlop Crybaby wa for making this episode possible.

The Crybaby is a signature part of Frank Zappa's sound that he used throughout his career.

And he is one of the reasons why this pedal is one of the most iconic guitar effects in all of rock and roll.

And now there's more than just one Crybaby Wah.

They have a whole line of pedals, from the benchmark Crybaby Standard Wah.

To the highly tweakable Crybaby 535QA.

And a bunch of different signature versions from artists like Eddie Van Halen, Jerry Cantrell, Justin Chancellor and Geezer Butler.

So head on over to Dunlop, check out your crybaby.

Get it right in that little sweet spot so you can get that Frank Zappa cocktail tone.

I gotta say, I think I've owned three different types of crybabies throughout my life.

And other than broken volume pedals, which broke, broke.

And that's why I've owned multiple volume pedals.

It's the effect I've owned the most versions of.

And that's broke just because I've wanted to try different things.

Right now, I am all about.

For the past, I don't know, five, six years, I've been all about the crybaby Mini.

I love the crybaby Mini.

Yeah, yeah.

Minis.

Minis.

Cool.

Yeah.

The wall was Crybaby Wah.

I remember was like my second petal, probably.

And it's.

It's come in and out of my signal chain on and off throughout the years, but it's always there.

It's always within arm's reach.

I'm trying to think right now, what song made me buy a crybaby.

I think it was Voodoo Child.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, that was.

Do that.

That's.

It could have been Shaft went to the guitar store.

I said, need to walk into that.

Need to get a crybaby.

So I did.

All right, man.

Zappa.

Frank Zappa.

What an staggering amount of work to try and even touch on, really something.

That you and I were talking about before this is that there's so much stuff.

There's so much material I think you can be.

There are many different versions of Zappa fan that you can be.

I have at times.

You know, in some conversations, I'm like a Zappa aficionado.

And in other conversations, I describe myself as not being a huge Zappa fan, because I'm talking to people who are such.

You can be so encyclopedic and so knowledgeable.

They're like, oh, I'm not that big.

I'm not that big of a Zappa fan.

But then other times, people are like, I don't like Zappa.

I don't know anything about Zap.

And I start talking about stuff and they're like, wow, you really know a lot about Frank Zappa.

There's.

You can.

There's so many shades of Zappa fandom that it, it is a matter of like perspective, what type of fan you are.

And then there's also so much type of stuff.

You talk to people who like Zappa.

They might like a whole different set of albums.

Yeah.

And have absorbed all this.

And I'm curious.

You and I have never really talked about Frank Zappa.

So I'm curious to see how we land with each other here.

I mean, I think I'm.

I was like a part time Zappa fan.

I would, you know, read about him or Dweezel in the guitar magazines or Dweezil talking about him in guitar magazines growing up.

I would like dip in and hear Peaches or Inca Rhodes or my guitar wants to kill your mama from the live G3 record, which was the first Zappa song I ever heard, even though it wasn't performed by Zappa.

And then I kind of dip in and out.

I was never one to really like go through.

It's like, wow, okay, I'm gonna dig deep into, into Zappa.

Until I went, I don't know, 12, 13 years ago.

And we did the Dweezil Zappa rig rundown and for that particular one we shot the rig rundown and then we, we stuck around for, I don't know, five or six tunes.

And it was like in the live setting and was like, ah, okay, I get it, I get it.

And some of those tunes that the band played that night were.

Are still some of my favorites.

One of them ended up on my little list here.

We've each picked three Zappa tunes.

Let's say one of them, I knew right away was going to be on my list.

The other two, I kind of went and cherry picked some of his more well known guitar centric records and kind of look and try to jog my memory on some of the highlights.

But it took a live setting for me to understand a bit more and then inspire me to go and dig more into Zappa's catalog.

But I'm trying to think there's any artist like this, but I almost enjoy listening to all the music that was inspired by Frank Zappa more than Frank Zappa.

Oh, that's interesting.

I don't know that I feel that way.

I mean, number one on the list is Fish.

Yeah.

I think that's why I don't feel that way.

I mean, that's, you know, and I think they've played.

They played a few Zapatoons.

Yeah, of course but yeah, you can tell they were very influenced musically by Zappa.

And.

And I.

I don't hear it as much in like, Trey's guitar playing and tone, but compositionally, I feel tone's kind.

Of the opposite of Frank Zeppus.

Yeah, it's a bit smoother.

It's less warmer.

Yeah, yeah.

Controlled, less experimental.

But I.

But yeah, to me, I.

I enjoy the Zappa influenced music more than Zappa himself.

Okay.

Look at that.

Two different types of Frank Zappa fans already.

So when was your first, like, exposure to Zappa?

High school.

I remember hearing Apostrophe in high school.

Probably in Garroads.

Probably.

I don't know, a few things.

Handful of things.

In high school, I had a friend who was a Zappa fan, but he was like a Zappa fan, right?

Like, he was.

He knew all the stuff and I was not quite.

I didn't like everything that I heard, but I found, you know, I found stuff that I liked going back then.

I have somewhere I wanted to find him, do a little show and tell.

But I have the.

The apostrophe guitar tab book somewhere and learn.

Learn stuff out of there.

But yeah, I've sort of had like a come and go relationship with.

With that music.

There's stuff I really like and then I'd sort of like dig deeper and deeper and, you know, end up finding stuff I didn't like.

But that's really evolved over time.

I still have a lot of Frank Zappa music as we can get into that I don't particularly care for.

But is it, I mean, more and more of it that I.

That I really like?

It's feasible to.

It's almost impossible, I would think, to like everything he put out because it's so different.

I mean, there's fanatics of any.

There's fanatics, yeah.

But like, you know, if you're really into Apostrophe or Overnight Sensation or that era even going up to Joe's Garage, like, how often are you spinning the.

The London Symphony album, you know?

Or how often are you spinning, you know, the guitar record or jazz from hell?

Like, those are so different.

So different.

Those are very different.

Yeah.

You know, like, I get it and I'm sure like every huge fan base, there are the completists who have all the bootlegs, know all the set lists, know all, you know, all this.

But Zappa was such a mad scientist when it came to his music that he had to just get it out in any way, shape or form.

Which leads me to this question.

That I wanted to talk about you with.

Do you like Zappa better as a composer or an improviser?

Oh, man, that is such a great question.

Because I think that that has sort of shaped that tension between those things, has shaped the way I've liked Zappa.

What I've liked about Frank Zappa throughout my life.

On one hand, as a composer, I would.

I would put a third thing in there and I would.

Songwriter in there and different composer from songwriter because of the lyrical content.

Like, I mean, the lyrical content is not my favorite.

Right.

So it's like this songwriter part I'm not a big fan of.

Composer part I love.

And I've come to love it more.

I think when I was younger, it was like I would hear this thing, you know, these cut and paste interruptee kind of things and be like, okay, that's like a shtick.

And I didn't quite get it maybe.

I mean, I think I always thought it was kind of subversive and cool.

But, like, now I hear that and I'm like, man, this is a big world.

And the way he does that stuff and created his own vocabulary with the type of melodies and rhythmic stuff he does and the way he brought, like, really complicated rhythms.

Like, he did a lot for complicated rhythms in bringing it into, you know, I don't want to say the mainstream, but, you know, to.

I mean, more.

I don't think forms.

I don't think we would listen to meshuggah the same way if it wasn't for Frank Zappa.

No, exactly, exactly.

Like, do you get Steve Vai without Frank Zappa?

Do you get Ms.

Sugar without Frank Zappa?

Do you get, like, a lot of jazz stuff that uses complicated rhythms?

Like, maybe not like he.

So as a composer, I think that's where I hold him the highest.

But then I go back and forth and this is the thing.

His guitar playing, his improvising is so awesome.

And.

And another thing that I used to.

I definitely went through phases where I was like, oh, I'm less into Frank Zappa.

Where I wanted him to improvise like he wrote.

You know what I mean?

Well, here's the thing.

I wanted his improvisations to sound like his compositions, but he doesn't sound like his compositions.

He has a different.

He has this, like blues, rock inspired thing in his guitar playing.

But now I actually really, like, love that tension between that and the.

The composed stuff.

Because he's making that other stuff more palatable.

Palatable and contextualizing it with, like, rock guitar isms and it's, it's so awesome.

Like, he mostly plays pentatonic guitar.

Not pentatonic, but tonal guitar stuff.

That's not, you know, exceedingly.

You know, the harmonic content isn't, like, exceedingly difficult.

But sometimes I find when I'm listening to his music, it's hard to tell where the composition stops.

And I mean that and where the improvisation starts.

Because his comp, his composed parts are, Are, of course, they can be very melodic and, and diatonic even.

You know, all great composers kind of have that as part of their thing.

But his composition can be so frenetic and rhythmically jarring that it's like, there's no way he wrote that out.

There's no way that he's.

But then you see.

Well, I mean, on first listen, what I'm saying is that.

But then you would see things like the apostrophe guitar book or the guitar book that Steve Vai did of his transcriptions, and you're like, oh, no.

What?

Sounds like he's just going nuts.

That's, no, that's all written.

He's actually coordinating.

Right.

And vice versa.

When you hear a guitar solo, you're like, oh, is this, did he write that part out or did he.

You know what I mean?

Like, so it's funny because my three choices here kind of COVID all those bases.

And a little bit of the songwriter thing that you talked about.

Yeah, I.

Same same.

I tried to get a variety in there.

And for me, something that has made me appreciate him not more, but differently or deeper is realizing how much of that stuff, even when I thought I was a more casual Zappa fan, found its way into my own music.

Like, I've.

When I start to think about, like, I was thinking about this earlier, like, stuff about Frank Zappa that makes him so different and then that I've not emulated, but like, you know, I, I, I write and have written a lot of like, pieces for odd instrumentation with a lot of like, tuplety kind of rhythm figures.

And like, I don't know that I would have ever done that if Frank Zappa didn't exist.

And as far as, like, I really think a lot about the way to play like an avant garde guitar solo with all that stuff in there, but make it palatable, make it melodic and harmonic.

And, you know, that's like, he's the guy who did that.

It's really unbelievable how big his world and his effect on music is, even from.

You think it's like a periphery or something?

Yeah.

And I don't think he could make the music he made without owning his own studio?

No, no.

Right.

Like, it took.

I mean, so much experimentation and so much time of just like.

And just, like, doing it.

He was not even to mention the sounds of his music.

Yeah, we'll get in.

We can get into that when we talk about the tracks more, that his sounds are unbelievable and.

All right, totally unique.

Let's get to it.

We have six tracks.

Okay.

Okay, you go first.

You go.

We each picked our three tracks that are, you know, the way sort of fill out our own world views of Frank Zappa.

For me.

Yes.

The number one place I go, I'm thinking about Frank Zappa.

I'm talking to somebody about Frank Zappa.

The.

The track that most gets me excited and is most emblematic of this thing.

I don't think I'm saying anything groundbreaking here.

I think this is the crowd pleaser.

I'm going Inca roads that for me.

I remember hearing that for the first time and having my own.

My.

My mind blown.

I thought that this was like the deepest, most complex, most wild piece of music.

I still kind of do.

I listen to.

I listened to three versions of that earlier today to get ready for.

For this taping.

And that's on what record that is on.

So the.

The original version is on One Size Fits All.

Yep.

There's a live version.

Great cover.

Great cover for that record with the couch record.

Great sound.

I also.

They have very different sounds and very different types of performances on them.

And so to me, those two play against each other.

I like the ones.

I decided definitively this morning that I like the One Size Fits all version a little bit better.

It.

Or maybe a lot better.

It rocks harder.

I think that his guitar.

So the.

The piece itself, so dense.

There's so much in there.

The melodic line, like, I feel like it covers all of the stuff about Frank Zappa that I want to show to somebody that I want to, like, get out there.

Cool harmonies.

Very cool harmonies.

Cool time stuff.

The type of melodic writing is amazing.

There's all these lines that.

That are written for the marimba and, like, that is just unbelievable.

The groove is super hard.

It's so fat and.

And big and round and.

And it just rocks so hard.

And then the solo.

So it's like you have this tightly construed thing the lyrics are kind of fun.

Yeah, the lyrics are kind of fun, but they're not hokey to me.

Yeah, that solo he does, this envelope filter thing I just think is like the most beautiful Frank Zappa guitar solo.

It's really dynamic and it's really melodic.

It has this really free feeling.

And that's like, the thing about Frank's solos that gets me is how.

How he can find his space in this really dense piece to incorporate all this stuff with phrasing he, like.

He's dealing with.

It's what you were saying before as far as, like, the.

The.

The rhythmic thing between the composition and the improvisation is like.

There's this phrasing thing that just, like, relates it all together.

But he makes.

Anybody can hear that solo and not say, like, whoa, what is this, like, crazy avant garde thing?

It's like relatable rock guitar playing.

There's some cool tapping stuff near the end of that solo that's super cool.

Then you go to the best band you never heard in your life version, and he's using that, like, cleaner, more direct, kind of like confrontationally dry.

Not dry.

That's the wrong word.

Clean tone with, like, a lot of flange.

That solo, also amazing.

Such a different solo, such a different vibe for the solo.

So definitely worth going to.

Earlier, I sent you a version of Mike Keneally playing Inca Road solo acoustic.

Yeah.

I thought I was just going to tap into it for a second, be like, wow, that was cool.

I watched the whole thing.

I was transfixed.

He is an unbelievable musician.

And hearing him take that tune and break it down, like, because I was wondering, like, how is this going to break down to, like, enough raw material that you can play it on acoustic guitar?

Go.

Go find that version.

If.

If you're listening and you don't know that version, it's just, you know, Mike.

Mike Kelly solo Inca Roads.

He does it.

He does it.

I was.

I was impressed.

All right, good choice.

Solid choice.

So what I did for my three tracks, I picked one from the 60s, one from the 70s, one from the 80s.

And I'm gonna start with the 60s Hot Rats album.

And the track, which goes back to.

It's interesting because, like, he's one of the artists that when you're like, oh, Zappa has a new record, you're like, okay, is it instrumental or are there vocals on it?

Because he could.

He could do either one.

He's probably one of the few artists who.

Whose fan base won't riot if they put out one or the other.

You Know what I mean?

Like, oh, no, this one's all.

All instrumental.

Okay, cool.

Oh, no, this one's all, you know, traditional songs or whatever, lyric songs.

Okay, cool.

This one's all classical.

Okay, cool.

So the song I'm picking from Hot Rats is son of Mr.

Green Jeans.

I thought you were gonna pick peaches on Regalia.

No, I thought about that, but I was like, it's too.

It's too middle of the road.

Right.

I think this whole album is super cool.

It's a bit longer song.

You know, it's almost nine minutes.

It's obviously pretty composed instrumental.

The tones he gets on here are really, really great.

And there's a bit of that cock thing going on in the solo.

And it's.

To me, it's one of the.

One of the most approachable examples of his guitar playing during this era.

It's not super, just almost like splattershot rhythmically.

You know, you kind of hear where he's coming from, what kind of vocabulary he's using.

It's also a fun one to jam with.

You know, it's.

It's one of the few Sapa songs where I feel like I can just put it on and play along with it.

I think.

I think Willie the Pimp is another one on this record.

Heard that via Steve Ranges is in the real book.

Yeah.

So that, to me is.

Is a great example of his late 60s guitar sound.

You know, Captain Beefart's on the record.

Shuggy Otis is on the record.

Jean Luc Ponni plays on the record 15, I believe.

I think that's ridiculous.

When he was on the record, which is insane.

L.

George playing rhythm guitar, you know.

So, great album.

Hot Rats check out son of Mr.

Green Jeans.

Yeah, I love that record.

Check.

It kind of has this, like, semi 60s, easy listening record vibe to it.

And then with, like, rock and roll.

You know what?

It's not?

What?

Yacht rock.

It is not.

Not yacht rock.

I don't care what Rick Beato says or anybody else.

It's not yacht rock.

All right, so my.

I think you might think I'm cheating.

I don't think I'm cheating.

I'm gonna cheat on my third pick, but you go.

Good, good, good.

All right.

So my next favorite Zappa composition.

Is this what you talked about before?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

The first four tracks of Apostrophe.

So that's Don't Eat the Yellow Snow, Nanook Rubs It, Saint Alfonso's Pancake Breakfast, and Father Oblivion.

So there's loose narrative about Yellow Snow.

Lead Filled snowshoes, dog juice, snow cones and abusing sausage patties.

That is totally, totally silly.

Lots of goofy voices.

It is the thing when I talk about not liking Frank Zappa that I describe those things.

Like, I don't like, I don't like.

I don't think that his crass humor has like, aged well.

I don't think that, like, you know, interjections of like goofy commercials and stuff like that.

Like, I think that's silly.

It's like an absurdist cartoon landscape that he's creating that sort of like aged.

They've really like aged his music.

In this case.

I love it.

I don't.

I don't know.

Maybe this is just the best version of the form.

It's not crude.

Not that I'm against things that are crude, but it's not.

I don't know.

Okay, so he talks about Dog Deuce, Milk Owns, but it's not.

It's.

You know, there.

There are cruder songs that are sort of like.

I mean, at least he bounces the crudeness with like a thought out storyline.

There's a thought out storyline.

Yeah.

And I think that goes through those songs.

Thought out storyline.

And the absurdism of it is actually something that really inspires jam bands and to get into your.

Your Pals and Fish.

I think Gamehenge doesn't without these four songs.

I hate that I'm speaking like this.

Yes, you're so right.

You're so right.

I hate that I'm like really going into your world there.

And the rhombus and the help and friendly book.

It is a more evolved version of.

And so in the Trey episode, when I complain about that silliness.

We can remember how much I love these tracks.

But to me, there's something about this that is like so classically 70s.

Like, it's.

It's, you know, what's the.

It's Conjunction junction.

You know, it's.

It's.

It's Sesame Street.

It's, you know, it's just a version of this stuff that existed around that time that, That I do love.

And you know, in this case, the way that he writes the music is like.

I mean, it's cartoon music.

He's writing these like really big, deep grooves with cool odd meters and all these interjections and interpolations.

In the middle of Don't Eat the Yellow Snow, they play Midnight sun for a second.

The jazz tune, the writing and Saint Alfonso's is so dense and it's like it react.

It's reacting to this goofy narrative.

And what he's saying.

And it's just like constant cut and paste and jumping around.

It's sort of like pre.

Pre.

It sort of like preempts, like all this John Zorn stuff that I like that came later with like, cut and pasty kind of.

Kind of writing Father Oblivion.

That.

That opening guitar rift is really cool.

And the sound of his guitar on there, it's like I had never really thought of it before, but listening to it today, it's really upfront.

It's like this kind of dry, upfront guitar sound that like you were saying about.

He.

He had to own a studio to be able to tinker like this.

Like, I'm so fascinated with some of the tones.

He got that like, I don't even need to hear.

I don't even need to hear the.

The content of what he's playing.

Sometimes it's like the tone.

It's like only Frank Zappa could get this specific guitar sound.

And it's varied.

Like, his sound on Hot Rods is very different.

But he always.

He always has this like, percussive thing.

He likes a lot of attack that I really do.

And he likes shorter phrases.

Yes.

Yeah.

Like he.

Won't you think of maybe a bebop guitarist or somebody like Holdsworth even.

They'll have these long.

Or Satriani.

All these long phrases.

Even Vi a little bit, you know.

But Zappa was always into.

Punctuated.

Punctuated phrases all over the place.

That.

Yeah.

Kept you guessing, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Solid one.

All right.

Pre apostrophe.

We're talking the Overnight Sensation record, which was the album that the Zappa does.

Zappa band was playing on the tour.

I saw them that first tour and they played Camarillo Barillo.

Oh, no.

I was hoping you were gonna say that.

There's not like this epic guitar solo in Camarillo Brello.

And I picked it here for a couple reasons.

One, to me, it's like the poppier side of Frank Zappa, if that's really a thing, you know what I mean?

Like, it's.

It's kind of like the fish is bouncing around the room, you know, It's.

It's kind of a.

Almost a feel good song.

Has a strong chorus.

That's what I was saying.

Like the songwriting part, his songwriting prowess and song form is kind of on display here.

Yes, the goofy lyrics are there, sure.

But his fills on this.

On this track are pretty cool.

And I like kind of the song Craft he does where he kind of goes the.

The.

The song is an E, but he kind of dips into D.

Like modulates a little bit into the key of D for the course.

Great horn parts on here, nice little piano part at the end.

And there's a slower version of this that I don't think is as groovy on one of his live records.

I can't remember which one, because he has literally a million of them.

I mean, I don't.

I mean, his live stuff is.

Is.

His live catalog is crazy.

There's a lot.

Yeah, but Camarillo Barillo, that if somebody were like, hey, I'm a very arm's length Zappa fans, like, go listen to.

Just go listen to Overnight Sensation.

Check out Camarillo Brillo.

You know, you can play it for somebody and you don't have to be a full on muso to appreciate what's going on there.

Yeah, I think that.

I agree with that.

I think that that is a more like overnight sensation and apostrophe, you know, those sort of go together to me.

And I think Overnight Sensation is the more palatable of the records for sure.

It's not as silly as, you know, saying Alfonso's Pancake Breakfast or whatever, but it has all the stuff.

It has all the stuff.

Yes.

It checks all the boxes and, you.

Know, Montana is silly.

I'm the slime is silly.

But they're.

They're awesome.

For me, off that record, I think it's like Camera Lo Barillo and Zombie Wolf.

I saw.

I saw P.

Fung play Zombie Wolf once and it was.

If I remember correctly, it was as the lights went up.

It was like they played their encore and they do their thing and the lights go up and then they go.

They play Zombie Wolf.

I'm like, man, that's awesome.

You talk about another good jammable Zapatoon.

Zombie Wolf.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Good pick.

All right, your third one.

I'm two and.

Oh, here.

So I did.

I did something a little bit different with my third pick here.

If you pick the same.

If you pick the same thing I picked, but you go ahead.

I'd be amazed if we pick it.

Be kind of.

Kind of awesome.

But I wanted to pick something actually that I just heard for the first time.

I may have heard this before, but, like, it.

It just struck me for the first time.

I don't like where this is going.

Oh, no.

Well, we'll see.

There's a lot of.

There's a lot of Zappa.

Like, I was.

I was popping around and I was thinking about something off of like Grant, maybe like Grand Wazoo or something like that.

Like one of those instrumental compositiony things.

And so I wasn't sure where to go.

I.

There's.

There's a few things I really like.

And like, you know, I think there's some serious honorable mentions we can go to at the end where I was like, these are the.

Obviously we have to mention this, we have to mention this.

And then I was just jumping around to see if I missed anything and I found this and was like, no, we got to talk about this.

This is awesome.

Because this is emblematic of things I love and a little bit of what I don't love about Frank Zappa.

The track is from the album Studio Tan.

Okay.

Okay.

Up until that point I was like, dang.

The album Studio Tan.

So it's like I'm looking around, I'm like, I don't know.

That cover I've seen before.

I feel like maybe it's been like I've played it before, but not really paid.

Let me listen to Studio Tan.

Very like almost Andy Warholi.

Bright vibrant colors, allegedly.

And this is just from Wikipedia.

That is an album cover that he wasn't an approved album cover initially and is created by Gary Pantera.

It looks cool.

So that.

It looks cool, right?

And so it's like I gotta listen to some of this revised music for guitar and low budget orchestra.

He was always one to have some of the most literal album song titles.

Dude, what a great title.

What an odd.

Like I gotta listen to this.

It is a beautiful modern classical inspired piece with really great harmonies, really cool sus chord kind of, kind of harmonies, great like tuplet type rhythms.

His tone, he's using that sort of like dry direct sound that he would use in on some studio stuff.

That like really clean thing.

And there's lots of like layers of guitars.

Like sometimes it's just two playing the melody and then there's like these interjections where it's like more.

More layered, I believe guitar things about 2/3 of the way through.

There's a really cool guitar, trombone, trumpet.

There might be other stuff in there combined like solely part like this composed melody that's like really active and tuplating.

Sort of like emblematic of.

Of that kind of writing of Frank's that I.

I think is awesome.

It.

It's like a sincere sounding dab of piece.

It's like one of those, you know, like sofa number one or something.

It's like this thing where it's like, his melodicism.

And there's like a lot of heart in the piece.

I feel like there's heart in this piece, but it still has these, like, falling down the steps, like Stravinsky inspired breakdowns that are like super composed and super tight, but come out of nowhere.

Yeah, I just.

I fell in love with this track listening to it for the first time.

It ends in the worst way.

It ends in such a, like, Frank Zappa way that I'm like.

Right.

This is.

This is also what I don't like, like, the piece ends and on the album.

And I even like this idea in, like, on paper.

I like subversive musical ideas.

But he goes right into the song let me take you to the beach, which is like a disco rock song with like Frankie Valli style falsetto and silly lyrics.

It's a cool song.

I don't dislike this song.

It's fun.

It's funny.

The lyrics are.

Or funny enough like.

But I was in such a space listening to revised music for guitar and low budget orchestra that it.

It just cuts right to him singing Frankie Valli style falsetto.

And I'm like, ah.

It.

It was like, is that the wrong thing to.

To follow it with?

And.

And I know that it's like he is trying to create this subversive element to it where it's like, here's a serious thing.

Here, take this.

Now I get it.

I get it.

And in theory, I like it.

Just in this case, I just wanted to hear that one tune.

And so, you know, then I go back and I listen again.

I'm like, no, no, no.

I love everything about this.

But I just listening to that to let me take you to the beach, it made me forget what came before.

I couldn't think of how the other piece went because.

So jarring.

So it's.

The interesting thing is, on the vinyl, the order was flopped.

So Let me take you to the beach was before revised music.

Oh, okay.

So maybe it's.

I wonder if it's even his decision.

Maybe it's not.

Well, from our friends over at Wikipedia, a lot of litigation in the release of this record.

He was quoted as saying, I consider it zapposane.

I consider it a bootleg or pirate album.

And.

And I'm suing the record company in California.

Whoa.

Okay.

Yeah.

I wanted to have a piece on here that I had no context, I didn't know about.

I just experienced the music and thought of it that way.

So I didn't.

I didn't know that.

All right, well, that's not really cheating.

You picked a track.

I cheated Way better than you.

I.

My last pick.

Hold on, let me find my notes on this.

Okay.

Maybe not the most loved era of Zappa.

I think that's the one thing I want to talk about later is what was his best decade.

I want you to think about what was Zappa's best decade.

And what I am picking.

I fully cheated on this one.

Yeah.

Is I'm picking the album Guitar.

Oh, that's titled Guitar.

Yeah.

Because I'm picking the whole album now.

But there's a reason.

I'm thinking the argument.

I like this.

There's a reason that this isn't a.

I don't think.

I've never heard of anybody other than Zappa doing this.

Right.

He took all those performances of songs that he liked.

Let's say a performance from Zoot Allure.

He extracts the guitar solo out of that performance and calls it something totally different.

In that case, chalk pie, right.

1984, September.

He played Whipping Post, pulls out the guitar solo, puts it on this record, calls it.

That's not really reggae, you know, I mean, so he plays, you know, Black Page, let's Move to.

Let's Move to Cleveland is on here at least three or four times.

That excerpt of that song that's, you know, Whipping Post is on here a couple times.

Black Pages on here a couple times.

Times, yeah.

And it's like.

So it's completely instrumental, obviously, because it's just a collection of guitar solos.

And to me, considering the era that they took these performances from.

Is probably one of the best, most distilled versions of what Frank's live guitar sound was like, you know, because it's nothing but guitar solos.

I can't imagine anybody really, like, puts this record on just to vibe out to it.

Like maybe Hot Rats or Overnight Sensation or any of that stuff.

But when we're talking about Frank's guitar playing, this, to me, is the.

And the great.

You know, Steve Vai's all over this album.

Ike Willis, Ray White all over this album.

Warren Cucurulo is on this album.

Vinny Kaliuda and Chad Wackerman are the drummers on this record.

So it's like prime.

I think, one of the strongest eras as far as terms of lineup of the band in Frank's whole history.

In spirit to.

To shut up and play your guitar, which is from.

That was released in 81.

And what years does that cover?

That covers earlier, like 76.

It overlaps a bit.

Yeah, it overlaps a bit.

But I would say that the period on guitar is probably more.

Yeah, that's more my element.

But shut up and play your guitar.

Yeah, because that's also some.

That's also excerpts from tunes.

Yeah, it's the same concept, but yeah, I think I like.

I think I like the guitar period better, though.

Variations on the Carlos Santana secret chord progression is maybe one of the greatest titles.

That's right.

That's right.

And there's like three of those shut up and play your guitar albums.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

I mean, this is.

How long is.

This album is guitar.

Guitar is 131 minutes, 2 hours, 12.

Minutes for those on Delian Metric.

There's also.

One of the track titles is it ain't necessarily the St.

James Infirmary.

Right, man.

Yeah.

Great choice.

I think.

Yeah.

No, I think there's an argument that this is like.

That guitar is like an art piece.

It's like a.

You know, it's a.

It's a.

It's its own composition.

Right.

It's a sound.

Sound art.

Right.

We're getting to it.

Like I said before, what was his strongest decade?

I think it's not even close.

70S.

Yeah, has to.

I mean, 70s Zappa, I think as far as commercial success, critical success, sheer output.

Two in 71, 3 and 72.

One in 73, 3 and 72 and 74, 2 and 75, 76, 3 and 78.

And 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 79.

That's 10 years.

That's.

I don't know how.

That's a lot of records.

I don't want to count them.

That's probably 15 records he put out.

In the 70s so much.

And then adding all the live performances and stuff like that.

It's.

That was his decade for sure.

But I also feel like it's such a.

His output is such a linear thing that, like, you know, you get to the 80s and it's, you know, that needed to build upon what came before it.

And, yeah, everything was.

It was.

It was this continuous trajectory that he was on.

One last game I want to play before we wrap this up.

And the game.

Oh, we got to throw some honorable mentions in there, too.

We'll get to that in a second.

But this has to do with the guitar record.

Okay.

We're going to play Did They Get It Right?

Okay.

Do not Google this, Nick.

I'm not.

Hands up.

So I'm going to list through.

I'm going to go through the.

The nominees.

You tell me who you.

Who you would have voted for.

Okay.

Okay.

Jeff Healy, Band Hideaway.

Okay.

Jimmy Page, Rights of Winter from the Outrider record.

Okay.

Okay.

Joe Satriani, Surfing with the Alien.

Frank Zappa, guitar.

The guitar record.

And Carlos Santano's Blues for Salvador.

Oh, man.

So the artist.

If we go back, we have Jeff Healey, Jimmy Page, Satriani, Zappa, and Santana.

So not who I think won, but who I think should win.

Of those, who do you think should?

Of those, guitar might be my favorite.

Jeff Healey, Jimmy Page.

Yeah, guitar is probably my favorite of them.

But because of the way it's created, I don't.

I wouldn't want to give that the award, you know, like, because it's this.

It's an archival thing.

Was that.

From those five?

Yeah.

It's not.

That's not a contemporary thing.

So it's like.

I don't know that.

What do you mean?

These are all nominated the same year.

No, I know it came out that year, but it's an archival release.

Right.

It's like.

It's.

It's the cheating a little bit.

It's like, all right, it's a live thing.

It's not.

I don't know that Jeff Healey record very well, but I feel like that's probably what deserved it.

Yeah, that's what I'll go with.

Tell me.

I'm gonna go with Joe Satriani.

Because I think, in retrospect, I forgot this.

Sorry.

I forgot that Joe Satriani was in there.

In retrospect, you talk about those.

Surfing with the Alien, game changing rock instrumental performances.

It's Surfing with the Alien, no question.

Yeah, definitely.

Right?

Definitely.

Joe did not win that year.

Neither did Frank Zappa and neither did Jeff Healy.

It was Carlos Santana's Blues for Salvador Record that one.

I don't think they got it right.

I'm gonna say no, they didn't get it right.

No, on that one.

Now, I lost that one.

I couldn't maintain all the stuff in my head.

Yeah.

Now, the next year, the album that won was Jeff Beck's Guitar Shop.

Yes.

They got it right.

You got another one?

Can we play one more?

Yeah.

Okay.

91.

Here you go.

This is a big one.

91.

Allman Brothers Band, Eric Johnson, Avia Musicom Joe Satriani's Flying in a Blue Dream, Steve Vai's Passion in Warfare, and Jimmy Vaughn and Stevie Ray Vaughn, family style.

And what is.

What's the name of the category again?

Best Rock Instrumental Performance.

But it's weird because some of these are listed as songs and some as albums, so we'll say them in general.

I'm going with Jimmy and Stevie.

That's who I think they won.

Oh, good, good, good.

I think got it right then.

Yeah.

Also, you got to think Stevia just died.

Musically.

Thinking from a purely musical point of view, that's my opinion.

And then that only bolsters it more.

The only one I would have maybe thought about was that passionate Steve Ice Passion Warfare record.

That was a really big one for him.

The next year was Eric Johnson's Cliffs of Dover.

Wait, say this again.

What year was that?

1988.

Frank Zappa won.

Yep.

And one of the other nominees was Dweezel Zappa with Harvey Hancock and Terry Bozio.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

And I'm looking at it now.

Springsteen, your boy.

Yeah.

Paradise by the Sea, Ray Vaughan Tracks.

Classic rock instrumental artist, Bruce Springsteen and E Street Band.

Yeah.

Steve Redbomb twice.

I gotta say, Jazz from Hell.

They got it right.

I am a big Jazz from Hell fan and I was sorry that I could not bring that up somewhere else in this episode to talk about it more extensively.

But there's.

There's only guitar on one track.

Great track.

St.

Etienne.

That I'm probably saying wrong, but that record otherwise, other than that one track that has guitar on it, is.

Was all created on Sier.

I love that record.

I think it.

It might be like my favorite Frank Zapper record at this point in my life, for whatever that's worth.

This has to be one of the most small digression.

Here.

Yeah.

Steve Vai, Green Day Jeff Beck, Moby and Santana featuring Eric Clapton.

Like what?

Okay, so here's what I don't understand.

Yeah, they had a big shakeup.

This was one of my favorite records.

My favorite categories.

This is the best category.

Yeah, this is the category.

The.

And I though I will say, looking at it, I think there were probably some years that they got the nominations wrong.

Look at the context here.

Satriani and VI are on most.

One of those guys are not just about every years.

Yeah.

And like, look, this is no shade to those obviously completely amazing, phenomenal musicians who will cover in with their own space.

But I don't.

I.

Come on.

They're in.

They're in.

All of them.

Right?

I'm looking.

Okay, there's a run here.

Let's see.

Where does they.

But like, you.

2002, both of them.

2001, Satriani.

How far can we go?

Satriani?

98.

Vi and Satriani, ever clear were nominated in 99.

That's pretty fascinating.

97.

How did Edward Van Halen and Alex Van Halen's respect the win?

Not win that one, Satch.

Yeah, Satchani and VI are in the mix every year.

They're in the mix every year.

So.

And like, I'm not.

I'm not saying that they don't deserve it.

I'm just saying maybe there are other people that deserve it.

That's true.

Um, so you know that they.

That in a way sort of maybe pigeonholed this category and could.

Could have led to its demise.

I wish they brought this category back.

That was very cool, I think, too.

Oh, nine.

Zappa plays Zapper with Steve Vines for Peaches and Regalia.

I tell you what, Vine, Satriani were Grammy machines in the last 15, 20 years of this category or whatever.

Well, Grammy nomination machines.

Gamination machine.

Right, exactly.

Because VI 1 in 94.

I don't know if Satriani ever won.

And Satriani never won.

I guess that's why he kept getting nominated.

He.

That's.

That's not cool.

See, he.

Yeah, he should have won something.

Yeah.

Surfing with the alien, no doubt.

Should have.

Should have won that.

Should have won.

Well, I'm glad we fixed the Grammys.

I want to say I want to fix one thing here before anybody comments it that we didn't mention Black Napkins, one of the most iconic Frank Zappa guitar solos of all time.

To me, it seems too obvious to choose, and so I didn't.

But Black Napkins, there are excerpts Black Napkins, like all over the guitar record.

So yes.

So we did choose it.

You chose.

We did.

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100.