It’s me, Mark Stone, and in this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast, I’m joined by Simon Nutter to explore the wonderfully eccentric world of rallying in a Fiat Panda.

Simon shares his experiences taking part in a variety of unusual and often challenging rally events, where adventure, camaraderie, and problem-solving are just as important as speed. We discuss the preparation required to turn a humble Panda into a capable rally companion, along with the navigation challenges and unexpected moments that make these events so memorable.

The conversation also charts the evolution of the Fiat Panda itself, from practical town car to cult favourite among enthusiasts. Simon reflects on why the Panda has earned such affection from drivers and how its simplicity, character, and reliability have made it the perfect vehicle for offbeat motoring adventures.

This episode celebrates the spirit of grassroots rallying, where the journey matters as much as the destination and where friendships, stories, and shared experiences often outshine the results sheet.

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I'd like to introduce you the backseat driver.

A man after my own heart.

He seriously interferes pandas to a degree.

He rallies them.

He does some serious rallying with them.

So we'll find out why and we'll find out what.

So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce Simon Nutter to the backseat driver.

Simon, welcome.

Thank you very much.

How you do?

Hello, everybody.

How did all this come about?

And why pandas?

I mean, I know why I owned a Panda 4 before.

I've owned a few and I love them to bits.

Do you want another one?

Right, so basically, how do we end up with pandas?

We.

Well, we've always done sort of obscure events.

As well as the rallying, we've also done obscure things.

Yeah.

Howard Patterson, who you know is.

Who used to have rally drive, He's.

He's a bugger for inviting us over for Christmas.

We have a few drinks and then he comes out and finds some sort of obscure.

Why don't we do this?

And it started off ages ago with I found the London to Delhi rally.

So we ended up building the score of Fabius for that.

And then halfway through, they cancelled the rally because of Pakistan and India falling out.

Still going on now.

Still going on now.

Then I found.

So we found another event in Peru.

When did that?

In the scores?

Yeah.

So that, you know, we've always had a bit of a leaning to do in the obscure.

And then this last one.

Thing about the obscure is the events nobody knows about, they're probably more interesting.

Than your standard rally and you made one and to a certain extent, you made more welcome because they're not expecting you to turn up.

No.

So, I mean, three years ago, I'm not sure how we found this one.

I think it was.

I think it was Howard again, or maybe Sean Kakula.

But one of them came up with this Panda Raid thing in Morocco.

Yeah.

So.

So Howard, it must have been Howard, because he'd already got a Panda.

Then he bought another one locally that he was going to use for spares and found it was better than the original one, so he ended up building another one.

So he had two.

And a friend of ours from Dubai came out and he did that event with him.

Sean cheated.

He bought one in France and he drove down there on the trailer, car and trailer and picked it up.

Fee and I flew to Spain, bought one, then drove it home.

So it was always a bit of an adventure right from the start.

Anyway, we did it last about three years ago with our partners in the female partners, I think there wasn't a day went by where one of them wasn't in tears over something because it was quite strenuous.

And being two wheel drive our cars, we did suffer a little bit with getting through stuff and things like that.

Marcus Pomfret was saying, I mean their preparation was a set of van tires and it didn't seem to hold them back.

Well, I think that was Howard's input.

He said always van tires use Van Tuyers with a Marbella and.

Yeah, they're fine, they're fine.

You know, we, we did it the year before they came out.

So I think he got that advice from Howard originally.

So it's.

Yeah.

So we went out there and they.

It was, it was the first time English ones had turned up.

So everything was in Spanish when we got there, which was really lucky because none of us spoke Spanish.

Yeah.

Or read Spanish, understood Spanish.

So that was the first little hiccup which the organizers, to be fair, translated it overnight when we got there.

Yeah.

And they also organized an interpreter to.

Because every morning they do a little bit of a briefing as to what's going on and times and all this sort of stuff.

And we had an interpreter, unfortunately.

And we did it on this last year, this year's event, they had a translator and things to tend to get lost in translation.

Yeah.

You know, they say it only once and it's not necessarily going to be all the right correct things.

It's all the right words, not necessarily.

The right word correct.

And you know, it was, it was a little bit character building.

But at the end of the day, we're not there to win the event.

Yeah.

We're there to enjoy and experience it and to see places that you wouldn't normally see now and again we'd see tourists and things like that in some places, but it would be a rarity to see other.

A coachload of Americans.

Yeah.

Usually in a hotel we were staying in.

They were all in there going, what the hell are you all doing here?

Because, you know there's 100 pandas outside.

So it was quite, you know, we did make a presence felt bit eye catchy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And.

And the, you know, they're brilliant.

They are brilliant.

So.

Yeah, yeah, it's.

We came away that last the first time saying we'll never do this again.

And then Marcus did come and look and Marcus and Anthony did come and have a look at mine, but I was asking too much money apparently.

So they went down the vicar route and then Peter bought mine From Alston.

And he went out there and I went to a few bits.

I was a bit concerned, as you do when you sell a car to somebody, that everything goes right.

And he came back and he'd have two punches on Vantejus.

But having said that, he did say he did a rock quite hard, quite quickly, but he just said it was one of the best things he's ever done in his life.

So that was a reassurance to me that, yes, he bought it, my cow.

And he'd had a good time with it.

Yeah.

So that.

That was great.

You know, I enjoyed that.

I mean, what do you do to prepare your pandas?

Well, because I get the feeling you're not allowed to do a lot to them.

Or are they different categories?

It's more or less, yeah.

There's different categories.

Showroom and the other one's wic.

Well, yeah, they've got.

I think they've about four different categories.

And we originally went to have what the.

I can't think what they call it.

Like the tourist category.

Yeah.

Thinking that was going to be like the one that we all go to scenic spots and casually get stopped for a beer.

It turned out when we got there, when we started looking, I think we got 50.

We had the same route but 15 minutes longer to do it in.

So I didn't really make a huge.

You know, when you.

When you're out there from seven in the morning till.

Well, the guy.

The guys at the top end are finishing at four.

Yeah.

So they're at the hotel having a beer, working on the cars.

4 O' clock in the afternoon, we were turning in at 8, 9 o' clock at night.

Yeah.

We were trying to find bivouacs in the dark.

Yeah.

I've been there in the afternoon in the desert.

So that was quite interesting.

Yeah.

So it was an adventure.

An adventure.

So.

But the preparation of the cars is as far as you want to go.

I mean, the Marbella, I stripped it near enough down to a shell and rebuilt it.

Yeah.

Just very quickly.

What's.

Is there any difference between a Seat Marbella and a Fiat Panda?

No.

Right.

No.

Apart from the badge on front, it's the Spanish version of a.

Of a Panda.

Yeah.

So it's the same basically, except it's left hand drive.

Yeah.

And that was it, you know, from.

From my point of view.

Yeah.

And the one I bought had done the.

The actual Panda Raid, which is the harder one of the events, twice, and had no problems with it.

Yeah.

So they're tough little Nuts.

They're not the quickest thing in the world.

I know I noticed somebody who was using a Panda at Clacton at the rally this weekend over at the Cadwell.

Yeah, not the quickest thing in the world.

So what you were saying is something different.

So I thought, yeah, fair play.

I mean, fair enough.

Mine's a bit newer than yours.

Mine's the cross four before it's the posh one.

But even if you knock it out of economy mode, it's still only 90 hours.

But we said that 85, 90 hours out of a two cylinder engine.

In my case, it's fairly, you can fairly bob along.

You can bob along and it's all the gearing.

I mean, the actual event isn't about speed.

No.

60 Mile.

I think your actual.

I think there is a limit at 60 miles an hour when you're on the actual desert, out in the desert.

Yeah.

And if you go over that with a tracker, you get penalized.

As Anthony and Marcus realized when they kept having something binging, they wonder what it meant and they were getting penalized every time he did it, so.

And Anthony being Anthony was pressing on a bit.

You know, there are bits of it that you could go a lot faster but you're not allowed to.

Yeah, it's somebody's backyard.

At the end of the day.

Even though it looks like a desert.

I was going to say, is it pure are the tracks or is it pure sound?

I mean, does it share anything in common with the Dakar that was.

I think we're supposed to keep the tracks.

Yeah, the.

What they do, they basically.

I'm not the technical side of it.

Marcus and Anthony have a better idea on this, but basically get a load of GPS points.

Yeah.

And they have various difficulties to get to and have various points.

The harder ones get more points and the easy ones get less points.

But basically you make your own route up and you, you set up at a time and you get the time to be at the finish.

So if you do all of the, all the points and you arrive a minute late at the final checkpoint, none of it is wiped, so you've got to get to the finish.

So basically it's a bit like a road rally.

If you decide to miss out a checkpoint, it's fine.

You just.

You're only getting so many points and then you cut to the finish.

Yeah.

So it's a bit like a road rally where we used to end up, you know, getting close to otl.

You cut a couple of controls out.

Yeah.

Just the same thing.

You get penalized.

Wait, you'll get penalised on a road rally.

But on the panda thing, it's just how many points you collect that day.

Right.

And as long as you get to the finishing time.

That was one of the interpretations that we got slightly wrong in the fact that Sean and I went on a big, long excursion over sand dunes and then down a very rough road that we kept hoping would come out and come out and come out, come out, come out.

And we got an hour into it.

Yeah.

And it came to an end.

Right.

And we had to turn around and go back all the way.

Yeah.

Then we had to cut to the finish.

Got to the finish.

It had to be at 5 o'.

Clock.

Got there about 5 to 5, came slamming through it like a.

Like we were finishing a stage.

Yeah.

And then it was only when we got back to the hotel that the interpretation was we had another hour.

It was 6 o'.

Clock.

We had to be finished, not 5 o'.

Clock.

So we could have done a lot more of the controls if we'd known that.

So there's, there's bits like that, but it's not going to change our lives where we finished.

No.

You know, there's nobody ringing me up saying, oh, you know, we'd like to sponsor your panda, please, because we've noticed how rubbish you are, but you're entertaining.

So we're gonna have you come with us.

It's all done.

Your co driver does it with a.

An iPad or.

Huge, huge problems with the.

Because basically, I mean, I make a joke of, you know, I've got a map out and it's a piece of sandpaper, you know, for him.

He was saying that he had like two points.

He had.

Where he was.

Yeah.

The way he was trying to reach.

Yeah.

And they had nothing on the screen other than like little bits of lines.

Yeah.

So we, we were doing it almost like we were at sea, like plotting back.

You see, we had people pan other pandas, the locals, the Spanish guys, they were going down tracks to our right or to our left.

Yeah.

And we were just straight line into the.

Over.

Over everything.

Yeah, exactly.

It was a straight route.

I mean, there was a couple of times that we struggle and struggled and struggled over a climb down it and then you could see a couple of pandas ahead.

You think, right, it's going to go, go chase them.

We got to the end and they just stopped because there was a 100 foot ravine.

Yeah.

And they come.

So we were all turning around, you know, and it, it's A big Keystone Cop, maybe, but it's.

Yeah, I can imagine if you've done it two or three times, you get very competitive.

Yeah, I'm very serious about it.

But for us doing it every now and again, we're there to enjoy our lot, you know, it's.

Yeah, it's a good fun, you know, get as long and.

And the other thing was where on the first one we were coming in at 8, 9 o' clock at night and being over the time.

Yeah, we were turning up at 4 o' clock and having a few drinks.

Yeah.

And then there's the local garages there that they're set up with easy ups and they can fix the cars if they need them.

Yeah.

I snapped a rear shocker bolt, I did a wishbone on the front and that was about it.

Yeah.

Which to say what we were driving over was like moonscape on times.

But you're going slower, you know, you're not, you're not flying along, you know, there's bits where you can press on the bits where you have to go, whoa, hang on.

And slow right down.

Two mile an hour.

Which is quite funny when you've got three pandas all doing two mile an hour racing each other.

You're like, well, I'll go to 2.2 mile an hour and I'll get ahead of these lot.

Yeah.

And then as soon as it went smooth, you put your foot down and they can't see sodo for the dust, so they have to back off.

You know, it's all.

It's all gamership.

It's.

Yeah.

Terry Thomas.

Yeah.

It was never, ever meant for anything like this, as we all know.

The four wheel drive came into being because Mr. Agnelli used to turn up in the mountains to go skiing and shooting and his mates took the mick that he come in a Land Rover.

So he had a word with Fiat and said, he's a company, he owned, there's a chance to turn in one of these four before they did.

Yeah.

From there, I mean, they've never really stopped making them.

They've just changed the looks of them and bits and pieces.

Yeah, well, they're just brilliant.

Or they're such a brilliant little car.

Yeah.

And they're unreliable.

They're like a sewing machine engine in the.

Well, the old ones, yeah, they're all getting a bit technical now.

I mean, you'll be a force.

Are you a four cylinder?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1200.

1200.

It's.

I think mine's got 67 brake horsepower.

All right.

Not 68, not 65.

67.

I feel it when you put your foot There you go, 67.

Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, what's happened is that because the old ones are getting rare and getting crazy prices now.

Oh, yeah, this is the.

This original four before is now worth.

Somebody I know bought one and by the time he'd had it restored, he uses it around Gestat and places like that.

This thing weighs in at 19,000 quid.

Apparently, if you have a.

A Series 1 Panda, especially a 4x4, that's in good nick.

Yeah.

You like quids it and it's a serious status.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I mean that.

Because of that, this year they introduced the 169.

Yeah.

Which is like basically saying the Mark II escort, the Mark 1 and the Mark 2 Panda.

Slight issue we had that with that was that when we turned up, there was two locals, there were 319s, which are the cross.

Yeah.

Which has got the electrical diff in them and this on the other end.

Yeah.

Because the modern one doesn't use the.

The old one system.

Yeah.

It's basically a viscous coupling.

Yeah.

Which.

Which let me.

We got stuck twice and that's it.

And once one of those, we managed to drive it out.

Yeah.

Which was.

I don't think.

I'm not sure who was more amazed, me or Sean when we managed to drive the damn thing out again.

He was.

He wasn't surprised I got it stuck.

I mean, he was just surprised I managed to get it back out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, we were just.

That little bit.

That's.

That's maybe a step ahead.

But anyway, you know, again, we're there to have a good time.

Yeah.

I'm not going to start, you know, I mean, we had words with the organizer and said, well, do you want to make a protest?

And we went, no, we don't want to make a process.

They're Spanish and we're quite.

We were chilled.

So we ended up being third in our category and we could have maybe made second if we had to have had that excursion that we went out.

But if some boats were for us.

And again, whether we would won it second, third or 10th.

Yeah.

It wouldn't change my way whether I'd enjoyed it or not.

Yeah, it's, you know, I'm too long in the Tooth for that, you know, as long as.

As long as the car's in one piece, which it is.

You know, it's like when I do the navigation stuff, there's all the CO boards and I always say to the CO driver, we didn't miss all of them.

The last one we did, we missed one.

Yeah.

And you think, well, that's not bad, is it?

It's not bad going.

Isn't that.

There were like 18 or 19 of them.

We only missed one.

Yeah.

It's where it's.

If you get.

If you get none of them, you think this wasn't very successful.

Yeah.

Are we on the.

Are we on the right map?

It did start in Padium, didn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Right, okay.

Yeah.

It was coming over here.

I had.

I remembered once years and years ago when we were first, before I started rallying, I was watching rallies and we.

We were trying to find the start and we found there was an escort went past, went, oh, oh.

So we followed him all the way home.

Yeah.

And.

And when he pulled up outside his house and we pulled outside, he got jumped out, laughing and he said he thought I was going to the start, didn't you?

He said, I'm going, Marshall, I'm having an hour's kit before I go.

So he then did actually show us where he.

Tell us where the stairs are.

What's that famous, famous instruction?

Never follow the car in front.

Well, that was one of the first things ever on my first road rally ever.

And Mark Halstead and I, and we came down to a T junction and we'd caught this imp in front of us.

Yeah.

We'd had an argument at the start because they put helmets on and I had a big argument saying, are we supposed to have helmets?

And this was a road rally and we had a discussion all the way up to the start and then we set off and I caught him on a T junction.

He went right and Mark's screaming, we go left, we go left.

Go left.

Yeah.

And we went left.

And it was.

It was correct.

It wasn't right.

It was correct.

You know, I have to be careful how I say that because it would have been.

I won't say who what, but there is even on the navigation rallies, first he appears on all of them with his son.

It's a fully prepared rally car.

And after about 10 minutes, he's gently right up me backside, so I'll let him round.

And after about another 15, 20 minutes, he'll be right up my backside again.

Have you been.

And he Keeps doing it.

And the last one we did, he came screaming past me.

Turn left to turn a tea and went straight on.

And the actual route was turn left at that T and then take your first right.

Yeah.

So this guy does it all the time.

Gosh, I'm quite used to seeing this rally car in the rear view mirror and you think, well, yeah, go on, carry on pal, because I'll still finish before you.

His son's navigating, so I suppose he's not.

He's making, he's making memories.

The son is old enough to know better.

He's also been doing it long enough.

All right, but having said that, you know, they're seeing places you know you've never been to.

Yeah, yeah.

And he's still there at the finish with you.

Did you see that viaduct?

What, via duct?

Yeah.

So you were talking about the categories.

What are the different categories in rallying?

Pandas.

In the Pandas they've got the, the base.

I can't think of the terminology.

You've got the wrong person but that sort of stuff.

But basically you've got the four before.

Like to call them extreme four before.

Yeah.

So you've got the.

The four before that again, there'll be 20 grands worth of car in them.

You know, they are the.

They have the suspension list.

Suspension.

You're allowed an engine.

Fiat engine.

Yeah.

So they put Punto engines in them.

Right.

So you've got those, which is the mark, you know, the old square shaped ones.

Then you've got just outdoor.

Do they also do the seats and the roll cage.

The whole whole nine yards.

Whole nine yards.

We were looking around, admiring some in the car park of the hotel and talking to the guys.

One they'd only built.

I think they built it in four weeks or five weeks.

A copy of the original one.

Yeah.

And it's got NASCAR belts in it.

It had bucket seats or something else.

Very clever, you know, really well sorted.

They had a built in compressor there so they could.

And they could lower the tire pressures remotely and then push them back up again.

So that's.

That's Dakar technology.

But they were saying that it.

They'd made it themselves.

Yeah.

And it was a bit farmyardy type thing, but it works.

And I think they said it cost them €300.

The whole system.

Yeah.

And a bit of knowledge, you know, things like that.

They've got the, you know, they've got the suspension on them, you know.

Yeah, they're well sorted cars.

Well sorted cars.

But then they were saying that the most important.

But the most important part of the car, they had this, the biggest bloody cooler box in the back full of beer.

So, you know, even.

Even these guys doing it.

Seriously.

Yeah.

Still have got that side that I'm.

They're having good time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you've got those.

So then you've got the same thing, but in two wheel drive.

Yeah.

So you've got like proper WRC type spec, everything done.

Yeah.

Two wheel drive.

Yeah.

Then you've got the.

What do they call it?

I can't think what they call it.

But it.

It's a bit of a joke because it's like the, you know, the tourist section.

Yeah.

And basically you can do anything in that that you could have.

You could have one of those top boy cars if you've got the money.

But you're in the tourist class.

Yeah.

So there's that class as well.

And then as I say, they've added the 169 one, which is again, separate again.

Yeah.

So some of it, basically, some of the GPS points are common to everybody.

Yeah.

Some are just for the extreme four before summer Xtree.

Some are for the four B2s.

Yeah.

Well, the four before can use them as well.

Yeah.

So the four before can do any of the route.

Yeah.

The two wheel drive can do most of the route, apart from a few that they can't are allowed to go to by other than four before.

Yeah.

Then you've got the touristy bit that everybody can do as well as the tourists.

And then you've got the 169.

I'm not sure what.

We had different points again that we were going to, but it's, you know, they have one day where we have like a mad start where they have like 30 cars all right across the desert and they set them all off together.

It's like a camel.

Camel race going across.

And that's.

That's good fun.

Yeah.

You know, and it.

It is, it's fun.

It's fun.

And all the marshals, all the organizers, the hotels and everything are so enthusiastic and can't do enough for you.

They really can't do enough for you.

Yeah.

And at the end of it they're like, you know, we want you to come back next year.

Is there anything you can suggest.

Yeah.

To improve things?

You know, maybe I have.

I have sent one saying maybe a.

Like a.

A fact sheet when they're doing the briefing in the morning.

Yeah.

They could actually have just like bullet points.

Yeah.

Like what bloody time we finish.

Traveling each day roughly.

I don't really know, about 300 kilometers.

Couple of hundred mile.

Yeah.

We sound in like.

We set off at like 7 in the morning, finish at 4.

Technically, it's not a long way.

No.

But the roads aren't.

You know, the roads are extreme roads.

Yeah.

You know, you're not driving on tar Mike.

You know, you might drive across a tarmac road, but, you know, majority of it is, you know, there's some of his goat tracks.

Yeah.

I mean, there was one part that I.

And I never.

I didn't recognize it until after the event that we.

Something pointed it out.

That's the, you know, this SAS rogue heroes.

Oh, yeah.

Where they.

Where they have like their camp.

Yeah.

We went through that and up onto the top and.

Yeah, it's just brilliant.

You know, you're like, bloody hell, who needs the sas?

All the thing you need.

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's just fitting the Bren gun on the top, you know, probably.

You know, it probably just ripped the roof out if you started bolting it there.

But like, another guy that we know, Ollie, he built one from a shell, literally bought a shell that I would have found.

Yeah.

Into a fantastic car.

He's a very clever lad.

Pro speed, they do roof racks and all sorts and do stuff for the military and all this.

And he did this because he used to go on holiday with his mum and dad and he used to hire a panda and he had happy memories of pandas.

So he's just like, yep, I'm going to do it.

I think that's how a lot of other people remember pandas.

It was the car they hired abroad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It doesn't explain Pontos do it, you know, so, you know, nobody likes them, you know, so.

Yeah, so.

So I ended up with two because I bought one to use.

And again, bloody habit.

Here springs up.

Yeah.

Oh, there's a rally.

The Himalayan Rally.

Yeah.

So that was in October.

Why don't we go and do that?

So he bought an xgs.

Yeah.

As you do from officers.

Then Sean bought an SLK because he's told us it was an all tarmac event now.

Yeah.

He did the Himalayan in the 80s and it was all rough roads.

Yeah.

Oh, no, no, no.

It's all tarmac now.

Smooth.

Yeah.

Well, I had a panda for before that.

I was.

I'd gotten ready for the Moroccan event.

Yeah.

I thought, well, it can go there and come back.

Yeah.

Just the job.

So we went over there.

Well, they'd had all sorts of landslides and Stuff.

So we were driving up muddy roads and all this and everybody turned around and said, you've got the best car here.

I mean, there was me and Simon with an Impreza and, you know, between us, we were the ones that were like, having a good time.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, it took four months for the car to get back.

Yeah.

And I'm like four months to get there and I thought this could get a long time getting back here.

Yeah.

So I bought.

And ended up buying another one.

Yeah.

And prepared that for the event.

And the other one came back from India on the Monday as we flew out on Tuesday.

Right.

So it was a good job.

I bought another one.

So I've now got two in the garden.

Yeah.

In the garden?

Well, yeah, well, yeah, My garage is full of my son's stuff.

Yeah.

You know, he's just done Cadwell, some of his escorts in my garage at the moment.

So two global rally cars, Fiat Pandas.

After City Garden in the garden.

Yeah.

And the grandchildren love playing in them.

Yeah.

Love playing, you know, so one.

One sits in one and one sits in the other, pipping their horns.

Neighbors love us.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

They wave and smile.

Yeah.

When we leave.

No, it's good, it's good, you know, but like I said, I'm.

I. I'm torn really, what to do because it.

I need to sell one.

Yeah.

But whether I sell a second one and.

And go.

I was trying to explain to the Moroccan mechanic.

What, that these two cows that were next door to me, they were cheating bastards.

Yeah.

And he didn't.

I couldn't understand, so I actually looked it up.

So I then explained to him that they were infidels.

Yeah.

Which he thought was the most funniest thing in the world because, you know, I was showing them.

Yeah.

This is the.

Well, there's again, they were having problems.

Well, they sheared the shockers bolts on the back.

And it's just as simple.

Now, I know it's the simplest thing in the world.

We're just going to make an extra bracket because it's just one bolt through the shocker into the bodywork and there's no support on the outer edge of the shocker bolt mount.

So just like a bit of steel bent two ways, like a Z and welded on and that'll make.

That will be it.

That's all it needs.

So you never thought of seeing welding your pandas or anything?

Oh, God, no, they don't.

No.

Well, the only bit of welding is if it's.

If they're a bit rotten when you buy them?

Yeah, we did do a little bit.

Yeah.

Because I did, because we were going off to India and I bought the second one.

I took it for MLT and it needed the rear trailing arms changing.

Yeah.

And he said, there's a bit of rot here as well.

And the local welding guy that we use, he said, well, it's going to be like 500 quid.

Yeah.

To.

To do the welding and a couple hundred quid for the arms.

So I said, all right.

Okay then.

So anyway, I got back and I sent him a message saying, is it ready?

And he said, yes.

And I said, and I give him 500 quid deposit.

Yeah.

And he goes.

I said, so how much do I say?

About 700 quid?

Yeah, I said, I saw 200 quid.

Because I paid you five.

No, no, 700 quid on top of that.

500 Quid.

So that was a bit of a shock.

You're not getting to put his name outside of it.

Knock a bit off.

No sponsorship.

I nearly put his face down the side of it, but that was a different thing, you know.

So apparently, you know, European, Eastern Europeans, when they say it'll be a price, doesn't mean that anywhere near the price it's going to be.

That's just like a.

Something to say.

Yeah, 500 quid.

I think 500 quiz is like a.

Like a rudimentary, you know, 500 quid or a grand.

Yeah.

You know, it could be either.

Yeah.

So anyway, but, yeah, so it didn't.

It wasn't quite the cheapest panda in the end.

So.

Yeah, anyway, but everything was good on it, you know, again, no regrets.

No regrets.

It's.

And it's got two new arms on it, it's got rear suspension, got knobblies on it.

Yeah.

Everything is ready to go.

To be honest, if I.

If I put something on those shock absorbers, it's ready to go again.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's.

It's there.

Can you upgrade them to like Cornies of Bilstein's or is it on its standard shockers?

I think these are from that auto dock and these are Punto shockers.

So they're all slightly longer punter front and Punta back.

But we are talking about maybe putting Bilsteins on the back of them.

When we were talking about that at the hotel after a couple of beers.

Mind you, if you did that, you could probably double the value of it.

Well, yeah, yeah.

And we put handles on the back in case we need to push and we didn't.

We were the heroes, actually, because there was a couple of lads stuck and.

And.

And we sort of went past them, got onto the hard and I think they were there, but they had a toro up on the front of theirs waiting for me to pull it.

And I went past them and then stopped, then backed up onto the dune.

So that was at an angle.

And I jumped out with me tore up and I gave him a tore up, which he had just you.

And he was like.

In broken Spanish, well, sign language, you're saying, you know, you're not bloody close enough.

And I went, hang on a minute.

Got me other Toronto and put that one on as well.

So we were like 100 foot away from him.

Yeah, well, 60 foot away, otherwise you'd be.

You'd be.

I'd have been stuck in the same.

Yeah.

And so I gave it a tug and off he.

And he thought that was best thing ever.

You know what?

Why have one?

Why he wouldn't have.

It's like.

It's silly little things are.

Thinking ahead is having two tore ups.

Having.

I got.

I had a spade and I had four sand ladders, not two.

Yeah.

And I got a hole.

Yeah.

Oh, well, a hole.

And we got stuck the second time and we've been.

Basically.

We were beached.

Yeah.

So we got a hole, got underneath and I could pull it from.

Right.

From underneath.

Yeah.

All the way out.

With a spade, you'd be down on your hands and knees with this.

I could actually just pull it out.

Yeah.

We got going again.

10, 15 Minutes.

Yeah.

So we're both breathing heavy.

Yeah.

And there's a local guy pushing.

He was breathing heavy as well.

Yeah.

And then he tried to sell us a fossil, you know, So I think.

I'm pretty sure that Sean gave him some money for helping, you know, but.

And he was most put out that we didn't want a fossil.

But we gave him the money.

He thought we were buying it, thought we were bartering him down.

And he was thinking, oh, that's a bit cheap for me fossil.

We didn't want the fossils.

We're just giving him a drink.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Again, anybody thinking about it?

It's good fun.

Yeah.

You've got to approach it as good fun.

And you get setbacks and you get knocked and.

But every day you have tales to tell.

Yeah.

Over.

Over a drink at the portal, you.

Know, if somebody wants one.

Where's the best place to find a suitable panda?

Well, I've got two for sale just near Kendall.

Just near Kendall.

The off road guys, you know, these Ones that do the green laning.

Yeah, ideals.

But again you.

The problem you've got is you can buy.

Well, it's like anything in world.

If you buy one that's already prepared, you're going to pay for it.

Yeah.

If you want to do it yourself, I would recommend having it.

I'll go yourself.

Because at the end of the day it then gives you the knowledge to have a go at it if you need to.

On the actual car.

Yeah, learn the car.

How complicated is it?

Oh, well, you sing a sewing machine.

You've got.

You know, it's.

It's the age of the cars now that you can still work on them.

Yeah.

You know, if you.

I think if you maybe go to the.

Something like yourself, it's now getting.

It's going to edging towards being electrical.

Yeah.

I remember a good friend of mine, navigator and he was getting out mechanic and he said, I'm a fitter now.

He said the computer tells me what to put on and we replace things.

He said, you don't fix things like you used to.

I mean, if you open the bonnet on mine, there's this big plastic cover there you have to remove to then start getting it.

And mine now runs on ceramic spark plugs.

40 Quid a piece.

Oh no.

Where if you put the normal spark plugs in that believes not Fiat tell you you'll be all right for about three months and then the loyal up and it'll keep conking out so you to then go and get another set.

Of ceramic plugs and yeah, you'll learn from it.

Yeah.

Move on without bitterness.

Don't look back in anger.

Yeah.

I mean they are workable.

Yeah, workable.

And the great thing is that because these lot have been doing the panda event there for quite a few years, the local mechanics now, they know pandas and they're.

And they're very good, you know.

I mean we, we went on to steel wheels because how would.

Everybody was on alloys.

How was saying, well, if you've got some steel wheels, if you bend one, you can fix it.

You cannot bring back.

Yeah, we did.

Well, I've got photographs of a local tire shop.

Yeah.

And I went in there and said, you know, in whatever, you know, sign language, sign language was, can you fix this?

And it was like.

It was like me saying, can you.

Can you suck a humbug?

Do you think you managed to be able to do this?

Yeah, because he just, he just like looked at me and he went and got like a huge piece of steel and a lump hammer.

Put his feet around it and had it straight in about five minutes.

Yeah.

Then fixed the puncher, you know, and it was like.

And I think it was like eight quid.

Yeah.

You know, and you think, bloody hell, if I've been in England doing that.

Oh, they just said, oh, let's scrap that.

Yeah.

And, you know, and I did it twice.

Two different steel wheels, so.

But that was because we dropped the pressures down.

Yeah.

And that was the thing.

And again, another life lesson.

We dropped the pressures down.

We should have just said, right, we're going back onto the fast stuff.

Stop.

Pump them back up.

Yeah.

And we didn't.

We just thought, oh, be all right, be all right, be all right.

Next thing, we have a puncture and lose 10 minutes instead of pumping them up, taking two minutes.

So.

Or we should have had a farmer's thing where we press a button and it pumps them all up.

Yeah.

Or a big oil cooler.

A big cooler full of beers.

Yeah.

I mean, when you started rallying a multi sport, did you ever have village, you'd be flying around the desert in a Fiat Panda.

Not really.

No.

No.

It was always about motoring.

You watching motoring news, rallies and, you know, Cyril Bolton and Bernie Griffin.

Yeah.

You know, all the top boys.

We were watching them up on Tanhill and stuff like that.

Happy, happy memories.

And then I bought Clive Oelker's twin cam from him.

Originally.

I was buying my brother's BDA Sprite.

Yeah.

But he made a right mess of that on Mull.

Yeah.

Just the last rally he was going to use it for.

So I ended up buying Clives, which was.

I think it had been in the top 10 of the international Manx Rally.

Yeah.

Two months before I bought it.

You know, you just put it on its roof.

Because I went to an Auton Lee's Vauxhall thing.

They had a Vauxhall night.

Yeah.

And I just bought the car.

And they would like showing rally films.

It showed him rolling it in the Isle of Man on the hairpins there.

I'm like, that's my car I've just bought.

Or on his roof and back on his wheels.

But that was some car.

And just road rallying.

But then we've always been a bit daft, really, because Alaman and stuff.

And then we went to Belgium and then Germany, different cars, different cars.

And then went out to the Middle east and did Middle east for quite a few years.

And people come on the stone.

They were affording to go to the Middle east and it was cheaper than rallying over Here.

Yeah.

Well, not now.

But it used to be because of all the sponsorship that was involved.

Yeah.

So we ended up going over there and then, like I said, I was over there when Howard came up with let's buy scores and go to India.

So we're always open to daft ideas.

Yeah.

That we all.

Most people.

Most sensible people go, why don't we go and do a rally to India?

And you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's it.

That's as far as it goes.

You sober up the day after and go.

We all go, right, so are we doing it, then?

Yeah.

And the next thing is we've committed and we're off and.

Yeah.

So it's.

No regrets.

No regrets.

I wouldn't say I've ever done.

You know, I've had quite a lot of interesting cars.

I've always tried to have different cars along the way.

Yeah.

But, you know, I'm happy doing what I'm done.

You know, I've had odd criticisms.

Very rare, but odd criticisms.

You couldn't drive cheap, which.

Yeah.

But that's just the wife.

I mean, what can you do?

But, you know, we've enjoyed what we've done.

Yeah.

You know, so, you know, they sometimes you make these decisions as to what you buy and.

Etc and how stretched you get yourself and.

And then.

And sell on.

But I saw something the other day.

Regret the thing.

Regret the thing you've done, not the stuff you wish you'd done.

Yeah.

You know, it's that old sort of saying, but, you know, we've all got our thing in life and doing something different.

Yeah.

You know, I fly out on the 19th for the next rally in Barbados with the Beamer and then that's for sale and.

Right.

And I'm now thinking you'll be able.

To meet past guest Cheryl Spencer.

Yes.

Rallies the BMW.

She reckons.

She does.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, Cheryl.

Yeah.

You know, so it's, you know, do that and then I'm.

I'm quite.

I nearly.

When I bought the Crawler boss, I was looking for something else different and I knew I was looking for a Volvo.

Yeah.

You know, the old square thing.

Because we've all watched the videos where they go into a.

Drive into a forest at 80 mile an hour and the forest comes off worse.

Yeah.

And they then reverse and then drive on.

Yeah.

And that sort of suits me down to the ground, that I can eat the forest and come back out, you know, so, you know, so when.

When we did the Corolla and stuff, we thought Right.

And I spoke to Frank Pendle, I don't know if you remember, and I was reminiscing with somebody the other day that I spoke.

I rang him up because I was going to Ireland to look at another Corolla after I told the first one.

And I just rang him up because he'd been.

He'd had a Volvo and I'd had discussions with him and I said, I'm just over in Ireland, never met the guy, but spoke to me on the phone a lot.

And I sent him a message saying, you don't know of any Volvo for sale.

Because I'd tweet him and he'd.

He'd had one, but the guy wasn't.

Was wanted a fortune back from it.

So he then immediately rang me.

How you doing?

You know, and it was like, he's one of those guys that you like.

I hadn't spoken to him since Thursday.

Yeah.

And it's just brilliant.

And then I couldn't believe it.

Next thing I saw, like, two months later, he died.

And I'm like, I can't believe that.

And he.

You know.

So he must have been quite ill. Yeah.

And he never let on.

And you just think these.

I just.

If I'd have known, I'd have been very tempted to.

Where.

I don't even know where in Ireland he was, but I'd have driven to see the guy, meet him, because he was.

He's.

He was some special.

Yeah, again, he was one of the, you know, the.

The pioneers of rallying over there, you know, so.

Excuse me.

I mean, rallying in Ireland's a religion.

It's not.

It's not a sport.

No, no.

It's more important than religion.

Yeah.

Don't be daft.

But, you know, they are the crazy guys.

Brilliant.

So what else have you got planned with the Pandas, apart from trying to sell them?

We'll sell them, really, if.

If I don't.

If I sell them both, I'll buy probably a newer one.

Yeah.

And then I'll tweak it again, like I've just done those two.

Yeah.

Just.

It's nice to do.

I enjoy doing that.

Yeah.

If I don't sell them, I'll probably.

I'll probably.

Well, I will sell one.

Yeah.

I'll probably sell the India one and then I'll repair the Moroccan one and do it again.

It won't bother me to do that, in fact, Fiona.

Because last year, Fiona said, you can count me out, and all this sort of thing.

So Sean jumped in with me.

But this Year she's.

After I came back, I won't mind having to.

Yeah, so that'd be nice.

You know, I know Marcus Pomfret and Cole said after they'd done it the first time with a panda, we're going to come back and sell it.

No, they haven't, because they're doing it again.

No, they have sold it.

Oh, they have sold it.

He saw Anthony, sold it to his brother.

Yeah.

So I don't know what he's going to do.

I don't know whether he's going 319.

Yeah, he might be, but you never know with Matt.

You know, those two.

Yeah.

I think the thing is, though, people who buy pandas, even if they get rid of it, we'll always buy another one.

But I think once you hold them, they rather get old if you don't they.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

I mean, you know.

Yeah, I think they are.

They're a really good car.

Yeah, they're really good car.

And then when you see 100 of them, or 110, I think it was this year, all on the ferry.

Yeah.

So that's 220 people plus the organizer.

So it's 300 people who are all slightly off their heads.

You know, it's just.

And everybody that's.

It's back to the old days of rallying where everybody was out to help each other.

Yeah.

You know, none of this, and I hate to say it, but nowadays it's on.

It's.

Sadly, what happens is now people go and do a rally over here.

Yeah.

They do the rally, they do the scrutiny.

They're all in the motorhomes.

They're all doing it, which is just how it is.

Yeah.

And They've got this R5 cars and they've got a little fence round them and all this.

And then they have a presentation at the end.

I mean, I know it, I understand it.

It's just unfortunate that they're having the presentation of Cadwell.

Yeah.

For the guy who won it and the guys in third and, you know.

And they're spraying the can Champagne as car 30 still going round.

Yeah.

And by time, car 100's gone around, which had a Fiat Panda on doing it.

Yeah.

They probably already left.

Yeah.

And you just say, it's just a shame.

Yeah.

Because it.

People don't get to know each other.

No, I know.

People have said to me, you've took part in the old days of the proper days, are rallying and are involved in the modern stuff.

They've said there's no social Life.

No, that.

It.

And it is.

It's.

It's unfortunate.

Yeah.

Things change.

Every.

Everybody says things change, things move on, but I still, you know, I'm an old bugger.

I'm getting, you know, reminiscing about.

E weren't like that.

It was, but it wasn't.

No, it wasn't.

We all.

And.

And the motor clubs had 100 members, and you.

You'd have a motor club night and there'd be 60 people there.

Yeah.

And 40 of them had been doing the rally.

Yeah.

You know, so.

And.

And the other 20 were usually marshals.

Yeah.

So everybody was cohesive.

They had a, you know, everybody had a connection to each other.

And you'd.

You'd be working on your car and somebody had knock on the door and how you doing?

And, you know, all that.

And it.

It is, you know, I mean, I.

Have analogy of the Motoring News championship, and you look through it, it's not something you sit and read.

It's too damn big to sit and read.

But you flick through it and there were hundreds of little car clubs.

Yeah.

And I would say at least 65 to 70% of those little car clubs don't exist anymore.

Well, I went to.

I had a thing come through on Facebook and it was the.

They were having Bury Auto Club from Bury.

And so Bury Auto Club were having their last ever meeting at Walmsley Golf Club.

And basically what this head was, they.

They'd had a lump of money within the car club, but every year they had to pay the msa.

Yeah.

To have that car club.

So it was slowly but surely being eroded.

Eroded.

Eroded.

It got down to whatever it got down to.

To the point where we're not having any meetings.

The car club, to all intents and purposes, doesn't exist.

Yeah.

The only people there were the organizers of it.

And they said, right, we're gonna have one night and we're just going to have the last night of Bury Car Club.

You know, everybody's welcome.

And this on the other.

And.

And so, you know, a lot of people turned up, but we were all spread out.

I'm up in the ladies.

I don't come down to the car club now like I used to do, because it was around the corner.

Yeah.

You know, so.

And you just think, yeah, that's.

So.

It was.

It's just sad, you know, you think, bloody hell, that's car club gone.

And the problem is, it was these little car clubs that launched the career of some famous drivers.

Oh, God.

Regrettably, there's no, there probably will be, but there's the route into rallying as was.

The proper route doesn't really exist anymore.

It's funny one, really, because I just saw some seats, they were out of date and the guy bought them for drifting.

And through a friend of a friend that I was working with, he was taking them down to Wales for me and he was saying, hell, if I'd have known.

He said, I got you a lot more for these, for the road rally guys and down in Wales.

Yeah, it's.

I won't say it's like it used to be because I don't think that, you know, I can't imagine that would be permitted, but it's quite.

It's still up there.

Yeah.

Getting back to where it used to be, you know, so, you know, they've got unarched Mark 2 escorts that are probably quicker than ever, you know, they were back in the day, you know, but it's.

It's still there under the current, but I don't know.

I don't know where.

Even when I was road rallying, you could see the writing was on the wall.

Yeah.

You know, we were all getting a bit.

You know, I can remember doing one road rally and it was coming like, I think maybe Devil's Own or whatever.

Yeah.

And it was.

And we were still doing a selective.

And it was getting towards daylight, this sort of time of the year.

Yeah.

And we're like, it's getting a bit iffy this.

Because at least if you could see lights coming the other way.

Yeah.

You knew there was lights coming the other way, but you know, when it's daylight and you.

You're going over jumps and stuff.

Airborne on a.

On an open road rally.

Yeah.

With a single rare.

You know, it's.

It's just.

We all know it's getting a bit silly.

Yeah.

You know, I can.

I can remember Bernie Griffin in his Mini with Andy Milner and I was watching and came up to a crossroads and as he came into a crossroads, I think it might have been a late call from Andy or whatever.

Like you turning left here.

Well, he just.

He pirouetted right across the crossroads for about 20 foot and as he came to a halt, he's dropped into first and away and up the right road.

Yeah.

And you just think it was exciting and There was probably 40 people on that junction watching, so there wasn't any danger of anybody.

You know, we'd have flagged anybody down coming towards it, but you think, bloody Nora.

Yeah.

You know, I was just amazed that he.

He could do that with such skill that he didn't hit anything.

Yeah.

If I'd have tried, he had have been in the wall.

Yeah.

Simon Nutter, more strength and more power to your Fiat Panders.

I hope you keep on driving.

It's been a pleasure chatting to you, so thanks very much for joining me on the back seat.

Driver, you welcome.