Join Betsy, Emily, Jen, and Steph as they discuss how a correct perspective of sin lays the foundation for Christian parenting and the need for salvation. Do children need to be directed, distracted, or disciplined? These important distinctions are incredibly countercultural, so mothers need to be discerning. Listen to make sure Scripture is the foundation, rather than the world. This episode corresponds with Lesson 7 (The Inherent Nature of a Child) of Entrusted with a Child's Heart, a biblical study in family life written by Betsy Corning of Entrusted Ministries.

Scripture Mentioned:

Romans 5:12

They're the joyful agains our children

shout on the swings, the exhausting

2

agains of cooking and laundry, and

the difficult agains of discipline.

3

So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

4

So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called

5

to, and went to bed believing we

are faithful in what matters most?

6

We believe God's Word is

the key to untangle from the

7

confusion and overwhelm we feel.

8

Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

9

Thanks for joining us

for the again, podcast.

10

This is brought to you by

entrusted ministries and I'm your

11

host, Stephanie Hickox today.

12

I am joined by the wonderful Jen

Frackman Emily deal and Betsy Courtney.

13

This episode will connect with lesson

seven of entrusted with the child's

14

heart and the inherent nature of a child.

15

We have all three of these amazing

women, because we are delving

16

into a theologically deep topic.

17

Does it really matter if we believe our

children are born with a sin nature, or if

18

we believe that they're born innocent and

being affected by the world around them.

19

We truly need to understand this

as mothers and we need to know

20

what the Bible says about it.

21

So that's our topic of this

untangled episode today.

22

This is the second half of our

conversation on lesson seven.

23

We chose to break it up

into two parts because this

24

episode is rich with theology.

25

We think it's important to meditate upon

what it means for our lives and not just

26

rush through, to consume more information.

27

I can humbly admit to you.

28

That I needed.

29

A reminder.

30

Of part one and the Lord.

31

Truly made the evident to

me that in this past week.

32

If you didn't get a chance to listen to

it, I would recommend you start there

33

and then continue with this episode.

34

Before we continue with a

second half of our conversation.

35

I wanted to tell you a little

bit more about what's headed

36

your way in the months to come.

37

Pretty soon.

38

We're going to take a break

from the entangled series that

39

corresponds with the interest with

a child's heart lesson series.

40

We're going to have several episodes

that share our Thanksgiving,

41

Christmas and new year's traditions.

42

Or evening going to talk about the talk.

43

We'll also be sharing natural solutions.

44

And answering questions, like what

do you do if it's a Friday night?

45

All the stores are closed and

your child has an ear infection.

46

Is there anything in your house

that you can do to ease their pain?

47

And even promote healing.

48

What natural beauty solutions are there

49

And What can we use to clean our homes?

50

That is safe and effective.

51

Jen Frackman is a wealth of

information on these solutions.

52

And she'll guide us and the

process of caring for our children

53

and ourselves in practical ways.

54

And perhaps she'll even be willing

to admit to you that she wants,

55

recommended that I take my mouth shut.

56

And you can find out.

57

If that was a natural remedy and

what it would be beneficial for.

58

So now we're going to start that

second half of our conversation

59

on the inherent nature of a child.

60

The first half regarding.

61

Our partnership with God.

62

Showed that God saves and sanctifies

and we Edify and evangelize.

63

And i'm just going to include the very end

of that conversation because i think it

64

was such an important word for all of us

65

Stephanie: Aunt Betsy, could you offer

some encouragement to the moms who might

66

be listening and thinking, I didn't

know about this when they were babies.

67

I didn't know about it

when they were toddlers.

68

I came to faith later, or maybe

I just didn't understand my role.

69

Is it too late for me train them?

70

Jen: Hmm.

71

Betsy: It is never, ever too late.

72

God is the God of hope.

73

And even if you raised a child who

is 25 and absolutely not walking

74

with the Lord, there's still hope.

75

I have a chapter, chapter 13.

76

A mother never gives up, never

gives up on her children.

77

Always prays, always loves,

but we also don't condone.

78

We don't encourage.

79

We are always there with open

arms and should they, like

80

the prodigal son, return.

81

But you know, I've had a lot of

moms say, Oh my, I've got a 15

82

year old I just took entrusted.

83

And, you know, I feel like we

never, set this foundation.

84

Well, sometimes you just need to sit

down with the family and say, we're

85

going to have a family meeting because

things are going to change a little bit

86

in our, in our home, and we're going to

start living by biblical convictions.

87

And then we go way back and we talk

about what those are and particular

88

family standards for their protection.

89

And it can be, harder on a child that's

older and used to having a lot of freedom.

90

But that's not necessarily the

case, it might be that they just

91

came to faith and they just are

learning how to do things biblically.

92

But I would say that for myself when I

had my first child, I was pretty green

93

and I give entrusted to mothers as a gift.

94

So they are way ahead of

where I was in my life.

95

And I would say that even with our oldest,

we went through a lot of challenges and

96

struggles, but those are the things that

helped me be able to encourage women in.

97

In big struggles, in

big struggles in life.

98

that's why I say, I wrote

Entrusted to encourage moms.

99

And I was so privileged to be around such

godly women in my early years of marriage.

100

And they helped me immensely.

101

And I feel like it's a luxury

for women to have that.

102

So if Entrusted can be that for

somebody, if it can be that community

103

of encouragement, and I tell you

that if you're struggling and

104

you're thinking that certain thing,

so are many, many other women.

105

And so when we get together as

a group, we can encourage each

106

other and we can, you know, make

some mid course corrections too.

107

And one of the biggest things

that I say is tenderness and

108

connection with your kids.

109

We're not going to suddenly be a

controlling parent because it's

110

really not about controlling behavior.

111

It's really about getting a hold of

their heart where they surrender their

112

heart and they want to obey the Lord.

113

And that's the process that we go through,

through several of these chapters.

114

I would certainly want moms to be hopeful.

115

Stephanie: we also want to talk

about the inherent nature of a child,

116

and this is incredibly counter

cultural, we want to make sure

117

that we have a biblical perspective

of our children's fallen nature.

118

Betsy: You're saying it's

countercultural, and it is, because

119

most of culture believes that children

are innocent and they're born innocent.

120

And if we, as biblical Christians,

believe, no, they are born with a

121

sin nature inherited through Adam.

122

That is right there,

just a complete opposite

123

presupposition about a person.

124

So if you have a child, and you believe

they're born innocent, and they do

125

something that's Disobedient, maybe

you wouldn't even use that word.

126

See, that's the word that a mother

who sees a Christian mother who

127

believes they have inherited sin

nature, they would say that is a a

128

demonstration, an act of their will.

129

In disobedience and that would require

some sort of discipline, whereas the

130

person that doesn't believe that they

have a sin nature believes that they're

131

innocent, then what are they correcting?

132

So they won't correct with

discipline, instead they will use

133

instruction, most likely instruction.

134

Let's just talk about this

and how do you feel about it?

135

So there might be some emotional thing and

then there's no redirecting of the will.

136

And the other main thing that

causes a big rift is if we as

137

Christians believe in creation.

138

And if a person doesn't believe in

creation, they don't believe in the

139

Genesis story of creation and that

Adam was created and Eve was created.

140

And I was just thinking about this.

141

The Lord had to only make two people

because if he made four people

142

or six people, then some of them

wouldn't have had an inherited sin

143

nature, but God designed it that way.

144

So none of us escapes that.

145

And because of that, if we don't believe

that, then we cannot even believe in

146

salvation because Romans tells us that

just as sin entered through one man.

147

The gift of salvation, the

rescue of mankind comes through

148

one man, one sinless man.

149

And it could only come through

one sinless man, Jesus.

150

I could read this verse right here

151

and this would be Romans 5, 12.

152

Therefore, just as through

one man, sin entered into the

153

world and death through sin.

154

And so death spread to all

men because all sinned.

155

And then Romans 3.

156

10 says there is none

righteous, not even one.

157

So that tells us that it actually

has spread to all people.

158

And then the next one is Romans 5.

159

for if by the transgression of one.

160

Death reigned through the one, that

being Adam, much more those who

161

receive the abundance of grace and

the gift of righteousness will reign

162

in life through the one Jesus Christ.

163

So then, as through one transgression

there resulted condemnation to

164

all men, Even through one act

of righteousness, there resulted

165

justification of life to all men.

166

And this is really important for us

to understand because we can't really

167

understand the gospel if we don't

understand that first part of Genesis.

168

In which Adam and Eve disobeyed and they

fell and we all inherited that sin nature.

169

Emily: That's so good.

170

I was reading.

171

Actually, I was reading through Genesis

172

today.

173

Stephanie: All of it.

174

Emily: again.

175

The whole thing was no big

deal just this afternoon.

176

Stephanie: Yeah.

177

Emily.

178

Just in her chair.

179

Sorry.

180

Emily: It's all in a day's work.

181

No, I was just reading

the first few chapters.

182

I wanted to just recount how I was.

183

Thinking on this, and I wanted to hear the

tone in which God spoke to them, to Adam

184

and Eve, when they had sinned, because

I thought, we parent little sinners

185

every day, and I just wanted to hear, to

read the tone in And his communication

186

with Adam and Eve when they had sinned.

187

And you read and it's, there's this

great intentionality and creation.

188

And just so much purpose in

everything the Lord does.

189

And then you read where they're eating,

they eat of the fruit and they hide.

190

And it's like a parent to a child.

191

Come out.

192

And you have sinned and you have done

wrong and it's not comical in any way,

193

but it is because you see how the Lord is

communicating with them and they're acting

194

so childlike and you see yourself in, in

that communication with your own children.

195

When you had talked about Genesis and

beginning, I just was reminded that God.

196

God communicates with us in a way.

197

And we communicate with our children

when they sin, because inherent nature.

198

And so along those lines, as we're

talking about sin and just, what all

199

that entails as we've talked with our

children, older, we, as we're going over

200

just, we want to make sure they first

know what the definition of sin is what

201

is sin and where does it come from?

202

Going back to Genesis we talked

to them as they get older and of

203

course in doses, it's increased as

they've gotten older, but the reality

204

of sin and where that can lead.

205

and then and then we talk to them about

what is the big problem with what specific

206

sin and what does that mean to you and

what could that consequence be to you?

207

And there's so much opportunity for,

I say all of that to say, there's

208

so much opportunity to talk with our

children about sin and where it leads,

209

no matter the age or stage they're in.

210

Jen: I find it hard to understand

how anyone would think that we

211

aren't born with a sinful nature.

212

I just think I did not need to

teach them to throw a tantrum

213

or to, whine or complain.

214

As the adult in.

215

the home, I do not whine when

I don't get my way or I don't.

216

Kick my legs on the ground

in the grocery store.

217

I've not taught them that.

218

And so I just, I struggle sometimes

with really how, I don't understand how

219

sometimes that can become a cross as

we're not born with a sinful nature.

220

Betsy: Mhm.

221

Jen: I, even as my own self waking up

every single day, I have a sinful nature.

222

I know my I, apart from.

223

me with his Holy Spirit, like

I'm going to sin against them

224

every day, it's an interesting

225

perspective

226

to

227

understand.

228

Stephanie: Right.

229

Why are self help books

always, bestsellers?

230

Because people are fallen and

we haven't figured it out yet.

231

We're still trying to search for

these answers, and if we believe we

232

are, then Jesus gets all the glory.

233

And also there is a solution, but

if we believe we weren't born with

234

a fallen nature, well all you have

to do is, turn on the news as you

235

were saying, Jen, I can invite them

over to my house, you'll see it.

236

It just feels so evident and there's

no hope if we don't believe that

237

Christ has redeemed our sinful

nature, that there is a solution

238

Betsy: no hope of salvation if

you don't believe you've sinned

239

and you need to be rescued.

240

So it's really important if, you're doing

children a travesty if you help them think

241

they're innocent, they're born innocent.

242

something in God's mercy

that he if a child dies.

243

They're not held as culpable or he

will receive them into heaven up to a

244

particular age and we can look at a lot

of examples in the Bible of that, but

245

I guess the biggest one that I think

of is, Of course, King David, when he

246

sinned with Bathsheba, they had a son

and the son was not doing well, lived

247

for about a week and David was beside

himself, on his face, on the floor,

248

praying that God would save the child.

249

And the child died and the servants

just were beside themselves

250

thinking now he will do himself

harm because the child has died.

251

He was so upset and distraught

while he still was living.

252

What's going to happen?

253

And, but David got up, got dressed and

ate and they were shocked and said, how is

254

this possible that while he was alive, you

were distraught, but now that he's Died.

255

You seem to be okay.

256

And he said because I will

see him again in heaven.

257

He didn't say it exactly like that,

but that is what the meaning is.

258

But then later in his life,

he has a son, one of his sons.

259

He had several absalon who decided to

try when David was near the end of his

260

tried to take over the kingdom tried to.

261

the throne from his father, he rebelled

and he was killed in the battle.

262

In fact, it was so much of the battle

was in a force that more people died

263

in the forest because of the conditions

than they did in actual battle.

264

And his son was caught in a tree

by his hair in the crook of a tree.

265

And the.

266

Commander of the Army who

was told not to harm him.

267

David told him, do not harm my son.

268

Bring him back alive.

269

But Joab killed him and had other men

also strike him with a sword and pierce

270

him through so that he was definitely

gone and, David was inconsolable over

271

his son, so how can this be that he

would arise and eat and be okay knowing

272

that his child would be in heaven with

him, but when his older son was killed?

273

That he was inconsolable and

he continually was saying, Oh

274

Absalom, Oh, would it, or that

it were me instead of you?

275

And why was he so inconsolable?

276

Because he knew that Absalom had a

rebellious heart and that he was not

277

assured that he would see him in eternity.

278

didn't have that confidence.

279

Of course, we never know, But it

tells us in the Bible that he was

280

definitely rebellious against the Lord.

281

So

282

That was the, that was why

David had that response.

283

I comforting to know that if we have young

children, that the Lord, in his mercy,

284

receives them into heaven.

285

Jen: Very.

286

Emily: Yes.

287

Stephanie: hmm.

288

Emily: That's such a good word.

289

Jen: Yeah.

290

I had never really thought of

291

Stephanie: hmm.

292

Jen: I've heard both of those

stories many times, read many of

293

that, and hearing you say it like

that is like, Oh, that's so true.

294

The weight of him knowing

that he had a rebellious heart

295

because there's no joy and no peace

296

in knowing you will one day

297

See them

298

again.

299

Yeah.

300

Emily: And it was total loss of hope.

301

As long as he was alive,

there was still hope

302

Of coming to the Lord,

303

Jen: There's there's two stories from

the book by Devoted by Tim Chelley's,

304

and One is about a mom who prayed

unceasingly for her son and it's

305

actually A fabulous book, but the son

is Christopher Yann, is that how you

306

U A N.

307

Okay.

308

And his mother.

309

I'm just going to read a portion.

310

It says little did he know that

Angela had been praying for years.

311

She had been earnestly pleading

with God to save her son.

312

She had converted an unused

shower into the home.

313

in the home to a prayer room and

spent so many hours praying and

314

studying her Bible each morning that

her knees became hard and calloused.

315

She committed every Monday to

prayer and fasting and once even

316

fasted for 38, nine days straight.

317

She enlisted hundreds of her friends

to join her in interceding for her

318

while Christopher was partying.

319

She was praying in particular,

Angela prayed that in some way,

320

and for some reason, Christopher's

friends would desert him.

321

And she goes, it just goes on

to say how they did desert him.

322

And when they did desert him, that

he called his mom and she came

323

and talked to him about the Lord.

324

But the part that gets me is

325

her earnest, her earnestness in

praying, but also that she enlisted

326

hundreds of her friends to join

her in interceding for her son.

327

Oh, I pray that if ever I'm in that

situation, that I would humble myself and

328

care more about my child's salvation and

heart than I would about the reputation

329

or That I wouldn't want to keep that

close and just be ashamed, but that

330

I would say, Oh, Lord, don't care.

331

Who knows?

332

This child needs you.

333

And I think the heart of a mother

who cares more about the spiritual

334

wellbeing of the child, caring what other

335

people think is so strong

336

and so powerful.

337

Stephanie: it's evidence of what we were

talking about at the beginning, that she

338

understands it's God's role, because if

she believed it was so much on her, she

339

would hide in shame, perhaps, over it.

340

But because she understands God's

drawing him, this is God's role

341

to save him, let's go before him.

342

I think that book is so encouraging

because it shows so many examples.

343

Of faithful mothers, but in

radically different situations.

344

And you can see how God

345

uses each of

346

them.

347

Whether their children are grown or

young, their husbands are pastors

348

or husbands weren't believers I

349

was so encouraging

350

Jen: Yeah.

351

And it just goes to show that

there is no perfect formula.

352

There is no cookie cutter, that

God gives us truths and and ways.

353

And I'm so thankful for Entrusted,

the ways that, Betsy, that you've

354

given us practical tools that are

very biblically sound to be able

355

to use and to train up our child.

356

Because sometimes we, as moms,

we just lost, like we don't,

357

I don't know what to do.

358

And so, yes, we pray.

359

Fast for them.

360

We plead for the Lord, but you've

also given us tools, which is

361

so life giving and helpful.

362

There's one other mom in

here, Charles Spurgeon's mom.

363

And at one point she pleaded with God to

extend his saving mercy to her children.

364

Charles remembered that on one

occasion she prayed in this way.

365

Now, Lord, if my children go on in their

sins, it from ignorance that they perish.

366

And my soul must bear a swift witness

against them at the day of judgment,

367

if they lay not hold of Christ.

368

The thought of his own mother

bearing witness against him pierced

369

his soul and stirred his heart.

370

And I found that so interesting that,

oh, that our children would know.

371

we would bear witness against them,

that we did, we did everything we

372

could to tell you about the Lord.

373

And it's in the end, it's ultimately.

374

Your decision and the Lord working

in your heart to change you, to

375

be able to unscale your eyes,

to see and to soften your heart,

376

to be able to accept

377

him.

378

Betsy: Jen, could you mention the title of

379

that book again and the

author so people who might be

380

interested could check into it?

381

Jen: Yes.

382

It's

383

Devoted, Great Men and Their

Godly Moms by Tim Chalice.

384

Betsy: you.

385

Emily: I think that's a sign because you.

386

mentioned it last week stuff,

and you're mentioning today, Jen.

387

I'm ordering this book,

388

Jen: Oh, it's good.

389

Betsy: always

390

on the hunt for a really good one, right?

391

Even though

392

I have a stack to read.

393

Jen: Yeah.

394

The verse for this lesson

The Hebrews 12, 11.

395

All discipline for the moment seems

not to be joyful, but sorrowful,

396

yet to those who have been trained

by it afterwards, it yields the

397

peaceful fruit of righteousness.

398

And I think

399

There are all of the scriptures

that Betsy picked out for us to

400

memorize as moms in this study.

401

All of them are so pertinent and

so helpful and they come to my mind

402

very odd times right when I need

them, and I'm so thankful for them.

403

But this one is There is something special

about this verse, and I, I feel like it

404

ties in so much with some of the other

things when you're training that child.

405

There's just, this verse is so powerful.

406

All discipline for the moment

seems not to be joyful.

407

That is the worst part of parenting.

408

Disciplining your child is

the worst part of parenting.

409

I don't enjoy that.

410

I don't like seeing their hearts

not being submitted to the Lord,

411

and I don't like Having to follow

through and the consistency of it.

412

It's the hardest, worst part.

413

It's sorrowful.

414

Yes.

415

That's what It says.

416

Yet to those who have been

trained by it afterwards.

417

It yields the peaceful fruit of

righteousness, but we don't get that

418

peaceful fruit of righteousness until

after they have been trained by it until

419

their heart has given over and said

you're right and I want to change and and

420

I need to change and the Lord works in

their heart it's been so helpful There's

421

a verse in Romans Romans 12 18 says so

far as it depends on you live peaceably

422

with all and then James 3 13 18 says,

Who is wise and understanding among you?

423

By his good conduct let him show

his works in the meekness of wisdom.

424

If you have bitter jealousy and

selfish ambition in your hearts, do

425

not boast and be false to the truth.

426

This is not the wisdom that

comes from above, but is

427

earthly, unspiritual, demonic.

428

For where jealousy and selfish

ambition exist, there will be disorder.

429

And every vile practice, but the wisdom

from a goddess first from above is

430

first pure, then peaceable, gentle,

open to reason, full of mercy and

431

good fruits, impartial and sincere.

432

And a harvest of righteousness.

433

There's that same word, and a

harvest of righteousness is sown

434

in peace by those who make peace.

435

And I just think as a mom, that is so

powerful because as I'm disciplining

436

this child and Pleading with the Lord

to change their hearts and I'm turning

437

their affections and their hearts

towards the Lord once again and being

438

consistent and I'm hoping and praying

for that peaceful fruit of righteousness.

439

When I know what righteousness is, that

a harvest of righteousness is sown and

440

pieced by those who make peace and I

looked up the definition of righteousness

441

and it's a devotion to a sinless

life, conformity and purity of heart.

442

Amen.

443

I just thought, Oh, I want that

for them more than I do the peace.

444

Like I want peace in our home and I

do want the peace of not having to

445

constantly discipline them because

they actually have been trained by it.

446

But I want most of all for

them to live a righteous life.

447

I want their hearts to be filled

with that righteousness, that

448

their devotion to a sinless life.

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That's what we're looking for.

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And I find that, just that.

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The inherent nature of a child is so bent

on sinning and yet all discipline working

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through in that sinful nature is how

the Lord works our hearts relationship

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with him and how he We are, if we are

trained by it, we get the righteousness

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any day.

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Betsy: Yes, would you

repeat the definition

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that you came up

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with for

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righteousness?

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Jen: Yeah.

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It says on one of the things that I had

looked it up, it said, righteousness

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is a devotion to a sinless life

and conformity and purity of heart.

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Stephanie: One line that I really love

from this lesson is that all disciplined

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lives are the product of training.

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Jen: Hmm.

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Stephanie: And we can see that

in every other arena of life,

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Jen: yeah.

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Stephanie: the athletes,

they have trained.

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The musicians, they have trained.

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the academics, they've all trained.

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we should expect that this is going

to take training and training our

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children's character and training

them to see their own sin and

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training them to see their need for

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Christ.

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and it is exhausting, it is wearying, it

is sorrowful sometimes, but when we trust

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in the Lord's partnership with us, when

we trust in the peace that we are sowing

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for their future, then I think we can find

the strength in Him to persevere in it.

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We have been so encouraged by

your faithful listening and we

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have a couple favors to ask of

you to help spread the word.

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Our desire is that this podcast

would encourage mothers who desire to

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parent biblically and you can help us

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the first way is you can write a review.

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Podcast platforms are more likely to

recommend this podcast to mothers if

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we have a greater number of reviews.

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So we would really appreciate that.

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You can also like us on social media.

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Our Facebook page is Entrusted

Ministries and our Instagram is

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Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

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We would still love it if you sent us

a question to answer on the podcast.

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And lastly, did you know that we would be

more than happy to speak at your church

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and encourage moms in your community?

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So reach out to us.

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You can fill out a contact form on the

Entrusted Ministries website and we'll

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try to get something on the calendar.

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We know you're busy, Mama, so

we are truly grateful you joined

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us for this episode of Again.

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If you're looking for more information

about building your home on the

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foundation of Jesus Christ, head to www.

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EntrustedMinistries.

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com to learn more about our study for

moms, Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

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This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

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world, and we want it for you, too.

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Before you go, I want to pray

this benediction over you

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from 2 Thessalonians 1, 11 12.

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We're rooting for you.

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To this end, we always pray for you,

that our God may make you worthy of His

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calling, and may fulfill every resolve

for good, and every work of faith by

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His power, so that the name of our Lord

Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in

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Him, according to the grace of our God.

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And the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Amen.

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Until we meet again.