I state that converting a backyard into a tiny home or ADU can provide extra living space, rental income, and a prudent investment. I speak with Brad Jones of Tiny Homes of Tucson about how to navigate design, permits, utilities, and construction. We outline typical timelines, finishes, and quality standards, and we stress a turnkey approach that delivers a move‑in ready dwelling. I counsel homeowners to verify site constraints, utility capacity, septic or sewer needs, and to evaluate financing options such as HELOCs or post‑construction loans. We examine policy and market shifts that favor multigenerational living, infill development, and expanded housing supply. I invite listeners to contact Tiny Homes of Tucson for a consultation to determine feasibility and next steps. I host Boxcar Universe and I speak with Brad Jones of Tiny Homes of Tucson about practical steps for adding an ADU. I describe how we assess site conditions, elevation, and existing utilities before any price or plan is delivered. We explain common surprises such as septic capacity, hidden gas lines, and the need to upgrade electrical service, and we advise clients to anticipate those items in their planning. I outline the turnkey process that Brad provides. We review permits, design choices, and a transparent timeline. We state that our contract prices hold unless a client requests a change. We stress the value of clear communication and a customer portal that reveals schedules and milestones. The summary serves as a guide for homeowners who wish to understand what will happen from first consult to move-in.

Takeaways:

• We explained that ADUs and tiny homes allow families to care for elderly relatives with privacy and dignity.
• I described the full design and build process, including permits, site evaluation, utilities, and turnkey delivery.
• We advised financing commonly via HELOCs or post construction loans, which reduce upfront interest and manage cash flow.
• I emphasized that proper due diligence for septic, electric capacity, and site constraints prevents costly surprises during construction.
• We highlighted market trends and policy changes enabling infill and middle housing, offering significant opportunities for developers and homeowners.
• I noted typical build features: wood frame with stucco, open cell spray foam, mini splits, quartz countertops, and luxury vinyl plank.
• We argued that quality control, clear communication, and customer portals like JobTread ensure predictable timelines and client trust.

Links Mentioned:

https://www.tinyhomesoftucson.com/

www.idealhomeimprovementaz.com

https://mrelectric.com/phoenix-metro

Hey, have you ever looked out at your backyard and thought, there's got to be something better I could do with all that space?

Well, today on Boxcar Universe, I've got Brad Jones from Tiny Homes of Tucson joining me.

And we're going to talk about how you can turn that backyard into extra living space, rental income, or even a pretty smart investment.

And here's the big question.

Does going tiny really make dollars and cents?

We're going to find out.

You hang tight.

Since the dawn of time, mankind has searched for ways to shelter themselves from the elements.

Over the centuries, these shelters have evolved from bamboo huts to concrete towers.

The last few years, there's been a push to save the planet.

Are you ready to embark on a more sustainable lifestyle?

Look no further.

You're about to enter the adventures of container home living.

And now, contractor, radio and TV personality and your host for Boxcar Universe, Steve Dubel.

Hi, I'm Steve Dubell, host of Boxcar Universe.

And here's what's coming up this week on Boxcar Universe.

You know, as we've been talking over the last several weeks, we're talking about tiny homes.

And tiny homes are all a rage, as you could tell.

They have you talk to a lot of people, they want to put one on their property.

And it's all, it's just, you know, catching like wildfire, especially here in the valley in Arizona, and as luck would have it, Tucson as well.

And today we're going to be talking with Tiny homes of Tucson.

My friend Brad is going to be talking about his company and the things that he's doing and making a difference in the tiny home industry.

So I want everybody to hang tight.

Remember, Boxcar Universe.

We are your source for tiny homes, container homes, and all things sustainable lifestyle.

And we'd like to welcome all of you to the show today.

I know there have been a lot of people.

There's been a lot of things going on.

We had to take a little break in between some of the other stuff that's going on.

So I want to get back into the swing of things here and talk a little bit about tiny homes.

You know, we've got, you know, ever since Arizona changed their laws about having a secondary dwelling on their property, a lot of people have been sourcing out companies to be able to go and build, you know, tiny homes.

Adus and I have to tell you, there are, as you know, any business at all.

There are people out there who are, you know, just having a business name and they want to take your money because there are A lot of people out there, as we, as we've talked about for many years about conventional construction, there are people out there, as my good friend Monty Stoler used to say, rest his soul from Kaiko Roofing, you know, people doing shabby work and people out there really doing shabby work on some of these homes, you know, and, you know, I always take on the philosophy of building something for a home is a privilege and you want to be able to go and do your best at it because if you make the customer happy, you know, happy customers bring happy referrals.

So that's one thing that we always try and do.

But we want to give you a little insight for all our friends down in Tucson about the source for, you know, for tiny homes.

Brad, welcome to Boxcar Universe.

Thanks for being on our show today.

My pleasure.

Honored to be here.

Thank you, sir.

Yeah, it's great, great to have you here.

And you, you know, as we were just talking off air before the show, you know, a lot of us, especially out here in the Southwest, experiencing monsoon storms.

In fact, you know, I think last week, Brad, it's probably one of the worst we've had the whole season, all summer.

Yeah.

But, you know, I guess it, I guess Monsien and the haboobs had to go out with a bang.

Indeed.

Absolutely.

Yes.

So.

Yeah, absolutely.

But tell our listeners a little bit about your business and some of your history and how you got started in building tiny homes.

Yeah, I started about two and a half years ago.

I actually bought into a franchise, the first and only in the country to build ADUs.

It was a company out of Northern California.

They, they had been, they built over 400 of them over a course of several years, seemed to have cracked the code on how to do it and decided to franchise.

I was one of those 72.

We launched and opened our doors here in Tucson on June 28, and the company folded five weeks later and ended up filing bankruptcy.

So that was obviously a very scary spot to be in.

But what I had, what had happened in those first five weeks is I had already closed three projects and as far as my background, none in construction.

I had spent the last three decades in sales leadership and executive management in the tech space.

I wasn't I wasn't jumping up and down about it, but I looked into it.

They had me take this test to determine what my interests would be in terms of a franchise to buy.

And I came up with senior living and home services or the 2:2 areas.

So I started looking at businesses in that space and came across this company that builds Adus.

I was completely blown away.

I had never even really heard about this as being a phenomenon.

I was living in Houston at the time and eventually Fast forward probably 30 days and I was all in and going to start the business here in Tucson.

We've had an unprecedented amount of success.

I think we've.

I just.

The timing of this, this show is.

Is impressive because I. I closed four projects in the last 48 hours and we did six in the month of.

Of September.

So overall and really the you know, two years we.

So we rebranded and opened up again as Tiny Homes of Tucson in, in basically 24 months ago.

And in that period of time we have closed 75 projects.

We have.

We got our first commercial project which is building 25 casitas for a.

A wellness resort that's going in in Tubac Omato area in Southern Arizona.

But have just.

We've tapped into a market that is very hot for these products right now.

I mean I think there's a.

Several reasons for that.

One of them being how the country is embracing multi generational living.

One of them being the cost of housing in general and then the other being as you mentioned, the changes that they've made at a.

For municipalities, states and counties to allow people to build these on their properties.

Yeah, I mean it's funny you had mentioned Amato.

I'm familiar.

I know some people down that live in Amato and if I remember right, I mean it is a rural area but you know there's plenty of, plenty of space down there to, to build a lot of communities if the population is warranted.

Sure.

Is it, is it growing down in that area?

So there is an old ranch there.

It's been there for like 100 plus years called Rex Ranch and it's been owned by a bunch of different people.

It was purchased by this Resort company maybe 10 years ago and they were going to get it ready to do something there and Covid hit and so they kind of put the project on hold but they ramped up again and, and they just ended up buying literally a couple of months ago a even bigger ranch right next to it.

So there's going to be a lot of expansion in that area including you know, single Family, residents and housing and, and hopefully those people will want to have a guest house or a casita on their property.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I don't see, I don't see why not.

I mean, if it is what like we say, we are seeing people all over Arizona and all over the country that are looking to either, you know, whether it's a family member, maybe grandma, Grandma and grandpa are going to come live with you, and yet they're, you're able to take care of them or help them.

And yet they, they're not too far away.

They're just several steps away if they're in your backyard.

So it's a great way to be able to keep the family together.

And also, you know, I think it opens up another, another avenue for people to decide on what happens, you know, when you want to help your, your elderly parents, you know, and it gives you another option because a lot of people, you know, and you know, you don't, you don't want to put them in assisted living if you could help it, but sometimes they're too much of a burden if, you know, if they're living with you in the home.

But if they have that separate dwelling outside, they're actually, I personally feel that, you know, it gives them some sense still of individuality and that they're not totally dependent on, you know, the other family members.

So I think in all, in all it's a good thing and it's, it's a good selling feature, it's a good alternative.

The, the, the four that we just closed, all four of those were for a mother in law.

A mother in law mother are moving into each one of those.

So it is, and I would say 75 to 80% of the ones we've, we've contracted thus far are for an aging parent.

And then the remaining 25 is a probably a 50, 50 mix of rental properties versus an adult child.

But these, the cost of living just makes it very, very challenging, as you say, you know, even if you could do assisted living, I mean, I think the least expensive one, which means it's not a great one, and Tucson is still $4,000 a month.

I mean, that's just an incredible, incredibly high amount of money to be paying.

I can tell you.

Social Security is not covering that.

So having this as another option I think is just, it's just more and more people are beginning to recognize and realize that they can do it and it certainly takes care of a significant need.

And you know, we, we pride ourselves, as you said, to start the show off.

We pride ourselves on having a very, very strong quality build and process, start to finish.

We're six months, 90 days to get a permit, 90 days to build the house.

It doesn't matter if it's 400 square feet or a thousand square feet.

That's been our, that's kind of, that's our timeline.

Okay.

Yeah, well, I mean, that's, that.

I mean, that timeline's really good.

I know we're doing a, you know, from our construction side, we're actually building a custom home.

It's about 3,300 square feet.

And once you get past, you know, you know, the plans and the reviews and the permits and all of that, once you get started, I mean, we were able to start in.

We actually had to scrape the found, scrape it down to the foundation that was there.

They took their home down.

They did not want to move from the neighborhood because they loved the neighborhood.

And then we expanded the house, made it 3,300 square feet and it's should be finished.

We're trying to get them in by Thanksgiving.

So it's a good, a good 10 and a half months, maybe 11 months to be able to do all that.

But there is a lot in there.

But you know, to do a tiny home in, you know, 90 day build is good.

I remember, I remember when I first moved here, Brad, back in 89, you know, and we bought a house when I was married and they said, yeah, we'll have your house up in 45 days.

And I'm like, what?

It's like, how are you going to do a whole house in 45 days?

But they did it, they did it.

Well, it was a track home.

So, you know, it's pretty simple.

And when I got started with my business, you know, you learn, you learn the trades and you learn, you can understand, have a better understanding why it only took 45 days.

Because they're not just building your house, you know, and I'm sure when you're doing yours, you try and coordinate as many of the same, like, you know, trade segments that need to be done at one time.

So it'll, it'll save time in the long run.

No doubt.

Especially if you're doing that project like you said down in Southern Arizona, if you're doing several of them all at one time, it's a community.

So you can, you can get some.

And plus you get some better pricing.

100, Definitely.

It's a, it's amazing what you can save just on, on the concrete.

I was just thinking about that.

Yeah, yeah, concrete.

Concrete.

You know, the.

The more you buy, the less it costs.

With some people, they don't understand when they want to do some of these smaller projects at their home, and they don't understand why it's, you know, eight, ten dollars a square foot, you know, why it costs that much is.

Well, you know, it's the smaller job that you do, they still have to come out.

They still have to put, you know, do their job and give you that quantity.

But the more you have to.

To do.

That's why I always tell people, if you do one area, is there anything else that you need to do?

Let's plan on doing it now because I'm going to save you money in the long run.

So.

Yeah, 100.

Yeah.

You know, because you're building a lot of these, mostly in backyards, there's not significant access.

So most of the time they're going to have to have a pump to get the concrete to the back of the house.

And if you've got to add that to a trip charge and you're going to, you know, every single time, you could knock all of that out in one shot.

There's a significant cost savings.

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely, Absolutely.

But, Brad, we're going to take a short break.

When we come back, we want to get into talking a little more about, you know, the build, the design and some of the construction of what goes into the ADUs you build.

And I know a lot of people have a lot of questions.

And, you know, a lot of the people out there who are DIY people are very interested in how you build.

And even some of the people, as I like to say, homeowners who are dangerous with tools and would like to try and build an adu.

It's not something that you want to do over a weekend, so I want everybody to hang tight.

Remember, this is where you learn how to do it right, not some of those bogus YouTube videos I talk about all the time.

Where you can't trust the source.

Boxcar Universe is the source that you could always trust.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

This is Steve Dubell from Boxcar Universe.

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All right, and we are back and you're listening to Boxcar Universe.

And we are here today with Brad Jones from Tiny Homes of Tucson.

And we want to get into some of the construction aspects of a tiny home build and some of the things that you as a consumer need to know if you're interested in getting a, you know, tiny home.

Brad, tell us a little bit about, you know, when you the consultation.

When people come to you, I'm sure they have different reasons that they wanted, but give them a little idea.

Do most of them really understand the process of what needs to be done with permits and land evaluation and utilities and all of that?

Do they really understand that or is that part of your presentation?

Yeah, I would say they don't.

And maybe one of the reasons that we got the opportunity to sit down with them is because they heard from somebody else or they saw something on a marketing piece that kind of speaks to the fact that we are a design and build company.

So we take care of the entire process from the plans to the permits to the utility connections and ultimately to a full complete build all the way through appliances.

So when we're done, it is turnkey moving ready, bring in your food and your furniture.

The and so when you sit down with them, the first thing I do is I say what we, what we want to try to establish are a couple of things.

What does the landscape look like?

What is the elevation changes?

Is there going to be do I need to bring dirt in?

Do I need to take dirt out?

Is there a lot of excavation of, you know, trees or buildings that need to be removed, sheds, that type of thing?

So we want to investigate that.

And then the other is to check out those utilities.

So where is sewer or a septic tank coming into the house if you're not in Tucson proper, which probably more of our projects have been in unincorporated Pima county around the city, A lot of those are on septic tanks and they probably don't know going in that septic tank was built for your house and your house only.

So you're Going to need a septic tank for the guest house.

The other thing we're going to check out is the electric panel.

Most electric panels, you know, somewhere between the older houses you might see some that are 125amp, but most of them are 200amp.

But again, since that house was built, maybe they added a pool.

They've got a couple of EV chargers.

That 200amp is tapped.

And so you'll need to upgrade to a 400amp panel.

And then obviously just accessing, accessing the water from the, from the source today is, is the other one.

Most people are on, you know, town or city water.

Some do have wells as you get kind of farther out from, from the city.

But those are the first things we talk about.

And then, you know, basically identify what appear to be the appropriate building envelopes on the space.

We, before we get there, we've already done our due diligence to determine, you know, are there washes on the property or is there a riparian habitat that we need to stay out of.

Is it considered floodplain or hillside development, you know, how much of the property can actually be excavated and you know, allowing us to get a permit.

So we try to have all of that prepared before we sit down with them.

And then, you know, we're kind of walking through what this process is going to be like.

But we make it as, we truly try to make it as simple as possible.

We have, we're a full custom builder.

I got a bunch of floor plans, but I just have floor plans so that, so most people don't know exactly where to start with the floor plan.

So they give me some basics.

I shove them a couple of plans around that space and say make whatever changes you want.

These are, this is a piece of clay.

Mold it however you need.

And there's a lot of, hey, if you're going to spend 150, $175,200,000 on something, you should be able to decide what kind of size window you want and where it goes on the house, right?

So absolutely.

You know, city of Tucson, they may even have them.

In Phoenix, they have pre approved plans which are great because you can, you know, you probably can cut two to six weeks out of the process if the plan's pre approved.

But what it also means is you can't make any change to the plan.

So if I decided instead of wanting, you know, a single door, I wanted to have double French doors coming into the house.

That's a structural change.

It's not that plan anymore.

And So I think to be, to truly provide a solid offering at this level, you need to, you need to be a, a true custom builder and not try to fit people into, you know, certain molds.

Yeah, no, absolutely, that's right.

And you think about, you know, and people run into that all time.

Even if they're doing, you know, you can talking about, you know, doing double set of French doors, you can't make a, you can't make a field change in the middle of it after it's been approved for a single, single swing door.

Right.

Structural change is different.

So I think like, if you could set the expectations like you, you, like you say people will understand what is needed and how long it's actually going to take.

Because I think a lot of times people they, when they see some of these programs that are on TV and what they, how fast they're built, you know, a lot of the stuff is left, a lot of these details and stuff that you don't see that go on behind the scenes are left on the cutting room floor because, you know, they're trying to get the show from start to finish and show you how well it progresses.

But sometimes they don't show you all the speed bumps along the way that you have to deal with these problems as they arise.

And I think they think that TV has made it look too easy than what it really is.

Absolutely.

And I mean, you know, when you're, we've, you're going to come across issues.

You know, the very first house we built, you could already see the whiskers in the ground of where the gasoline was.

And so we had everything ready to go and finally got the permit, started to get ready to dig.

First thing we had to do is have Blue State come out to actually say where it was.

It was eight feet to the right of where that line said it was, which was right down the middle of the living room.

So.

Oh my God.

We had to start, we had to, we had to move the gas line.

You know, that was an additional three or four day delay and twenty five hundred dollars to the project.

But there's some things you're just not going to know until you, until you put the shovel in the ground, right?

Yeah.

Especially when it comes to things like septic tanks.

You know, how deep can I go?

That's why you got to get perk tests and things like that done before you, you actually install them.

So I try to make the client aware of every possible scenario that we want to cover and before I give them an estimate.

But I will say when a customer signs a contract with us, whatever the price is on that contract, that's the price.

Nothing will change unless they want to make a change.

And I tell them if, if I make a mistake, you'll never know it.

Okay, we'll make sure that the price is what you said you were going to.

And those are the types of things that establish credibility in, in the industry and with your clients.

Because I can tell you that there is definitely fear, uncertainty and doubt when it comes to making an investment like this.

And they want to know that, you know, you're going to be able to take care of them and there aren't going to be any surprises.

And as I've done more and more of these Stephen, there are less and less surprises.

But out of the gate I certainly had a few.

Well, you know, I think we all, we all have had a few along the way when it, you know, as, as we find, like you said, different situations, different land issues.

I remember when you talk about a lot of people turn around and when you were talking about septic tanks and even, even if, you know, people have come around and say, well why do we need that?

Like we're going to use it for a vrbo, you know, and rent it out and there's not going to be that many people in there, you know, all the time.

Possibly doesn't make a difference.

The city doesn't know what you're going to do with it if it's going to be unoccupied for maybe half the month.

You know, they're just looking at how many people, how big it is and what the actually how big your septic tank is.

And like you say what it was built for originally for the house and you just have to put another one in.

I mean there's no way around it.

Someone, you may sell that house at some point and someone else is going to buy it and they're bringing in, you know, their mother in law and three grandchildren and whatever else.

And so that that house has to be able to maintain whatever the number of bedrooms are it regardless if they're all being used 24 hours a day.

You got to make the assumption that they are going to be used and, and, and that that oftentimes is a shocker for people.

Well, you know, we don't even use these other two bedrooms.

I said this is a three bedroom, two bath house.

Like I can't even, there's nothing I can do.

You got a thousand, you have a thousand gallon tank.

It's maxed.

We need to put another one in.

Yeah, no, I, I remember exactly.

And fortunately enough then we, we did the septic tank.

It had to be big enough to accommodate that added building.

Right.

So.

Right.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's very important to be able to do that and design it.

Now the other thing too is what do you find on a lot of the homes that you're building?

What are you using in, are they, are they all stuccoed or using siding or what?

All the ones we've done so far, only one has been siding.

The, probably the, the other 95% are stucco.

I think there was one we did that had some masonry to it, but for the most part, yeah, it's, it's wood framed stucco.

We use open cell spray foam insulation, no fiberglass bats.

That allows you to have a smaller amount of depth requirement.

So we can do two by four, four framing versus two by six and still hit all, you know, above our values in terms of the insulation requirements.

The most, most of the houses have been flat roofs.

We do a lot of covered patios, which will then happen.

We'll do the tile, the concrete tile over the patio piece.

Sure.

We use traditionally mini splits for H Vac and if once you get to two bedrooms, you know, in, in our builds, each bedroom and the main living area have a, have a unit.

Right.

So once you get up to three mini splits, you could sometimes make the case for just doing a straight H vac air conditioning unit.

I, if it's going to be something that's on the roof, I think a big hba, a big AEC unit on top of a tiny house kind of looks funny, but it starts to kind of, you can kind of start to pencil it.

I, we did one guest house which was literally three bedroom, two bath for a daughter and her two kids.

And the primary residence was the grandmother's house.

And that one we did do H Vac because actually we had to do four mini splits.

It was more expensive to do the mini splits than it was to do a traditional ducted system.

But you start looking at studios and one bedrooms.

The mini splits make a lot of sense.

We do, you know, our standards, our standard finishes are going to be quartz countertops, stainless steel appliances, luxury Vinyl plank flooring, like I said, concrete tile, you know, roof or, or covered patio.

It's a nice build.

I mean it's.

I don't want to say this to people, something that.

But the house is nicer than the main house.

When we're done.

It's of course, right.

It's new.

We got some higher end finishes.

You know, the, the homeowner's like, I think I need to move in there and I'm going to have whoever I was going to have to move in there take my spot over here.

But then there are opportunities for people to upgrade, you know, whether it's, you know, cabinetry or flooring or what have you.

I'll tell you one thing that's making it starting to move is stained concrete flooring versus the, the traditional LVP or lvt.

Yeah, no, I mean, I'm a big believer and I like stained concrete flooring.

One of the things that I did when I built that custom home, we wanted to actually do stained concrete flooring.

So what we did was we spent the extra money and did a post tension slab and try to minimize any cracking down the way down the road.

And we did the stained concrete flooring.

I had a guy up here in Phoenix who was a superb artist with doing that type of work and he did a beautiful job.

And we had stained concrete flooring throughout the whole house.

And then obviously we had to put in area rugs in different areas because the echo, because we had these big high vaulted ceilings and the echo was kind of hard to handle.

But with those area rugs it made, it was just fine.

But it gives the house that custom look definitely, you definitely want.

And it's not for everybody, you know, it's not for everybody.

But you know, if they sell a house, then if somebody doesn't like it there, if they can, they can put LVP down.

It could be a floating floor.

Yeah.

So they're not going to, they're not going to ruin what's underneath.

Correct.

The, you know, we traditionally try to mimic the, the architectural design of the primary residence.

If we're in hoas, it's more times than not it's required.

But most people would like, they like that concept.

They'd like to like, people look at it and think that was built the same time we built the other house.

Right.

They just.

The counter meld together.

Right.

So, you know, from that perspective, there will be some changes in, in the elevations from one house to another.

But, but for the most part, picture just your standard southwestern Kind of San sand, finished stucco, you know, kind of look.

Yeah.

Do you, do you find a lot of people are requesting solar?

I have a lot of people that ask the question about solar and the guidance I give them.

Typically if they, if they're asking about it's because they already have it on the primary residence.

Typically.

Okay.

And it is.

And I tell them it will be much less expensive for you just to add panels to your, your existing solar setup on your primary residence than to put another standalone system in this, on this property.

But I can tell you, not one of those people have moved forward with solar yet.

We have not.

Not one.

Yeah, well, you know, it's like, well, like a lot of things, you know, like we were talking about earlier, you know, there's a lot of companies out there that are, you know, all they want is your money and it created solar has a bad connotation to it, depending on who bought, especially way back in the day when they were selling them for astronomical amounts of money, then they went into leasing and then the leases went bad.

It's almost like it falls into that category of timeshares.

It looked great at the beginning, but.

Oh, my God, can I please get out of it now?

Yeah, it's a good point.

I actually, I'm in the process right now.

We bought a house last fall and we're renovating it now.

And I was looking at doing, I was thinking about, man, you know, while I'm doing this, maybe I should take a look at having the solar put on there.

But it's still going to take 20 years to, to pay for itself.

That just seems like a long time to wait on an investment like that.

So I, I feel like it should, it should be a lot, a lot less expensive than it is, but.

Yeah, well, I mean, you don't know if you're going to be there for 20 years.

Right.

So why would I?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, so you might be paying your, your payment could be different if you were only going to be there 10 years versus 20, you know, and I, and you know, like we, we never know what's going to happen tomorrow.

So you can do your best to plan.

But.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying.

People, you know, they're being very cost conscious, which is really good, I think.

You know, when they're looking at spending, like you say, 125, $170,000 for a tiny home, adding it on.

And I think it's a very good point you brought up about the solar adding it on to their existing House.

Because a lot of times people turn around and they're, they're impulse buying, they'll turn around, they'll see something on TV and they're like, oh yeah, I need to get that, we need to do that.

But yet it might be part of a, part of a plan.

Like when we talk about, you know, doing an end, being energy efficient to turn around and saying, well, yeah, I may need new windows, but, or I need to get more insulation, but you know, if you have a budget, you may need to do those things.

But which one should I do first?

And it may not only be one item.

So I always encourage everybody to get an energy evaluation first to be able to make that, you know, that leap to go and say, okay, well I need to do this, do that.

And then, you know, having a reliable source, like I mentioned at the beginning of the shows, to be able to go and touch base with in, you know, bounce off ideas and questions, to be able to guide people along the way that may have no clue.

They, they know what they want, but they don't know how to get there.

Right?

Yep.

So, but yeah, so anyway, all those different things, you know, you, you got to get the same great quality of items that you get.

You could put into a real house, you know, and we, like we said, you know, 600 square foot house doesn't sound like a lot, but when you're in feels completely different.

And it doesn't feel like 600ft is square feet.

It actually feels bigger.

When I was a young man, but whether it was in college or, or slightly after, I'd lived in apartments, dorms and then apartments.

And when you're that age, you don't think about what's the square footage.

That's just, that just isn't something that even, you know, gets into your head.

And so I walk into a.

When I hear someone talk about before I got into this, I'm talking about living in 500 to 600 square feet.

I'm like, that is incredibly small.

But when I get into a 600 square foot place, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is bigger than the apartment I lived in when I was, you know, 26 years old.

What am I writing about?

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

Until you experience it, you just don't know.

You just don't know what it feels like.

But yeah, it's an experience.

I mean, it's a journey.

Like if you even people like you say it's the major.

When you buy your own home, it's probably the most major investment that most average Americans will have in their lifetime.

And if you have the good fortune of being able to put, you know, an ADU on your property and it's something else, and maybe you've got expendable, you know, expendable money that you want to put in and invest in something, why not do it?

You know, a tiny home if you're going to rent it or if you're going to rent it out or I mean that at least that way you'd be able to make some revenue back on it.

It'll offset your cost and in the long run it'll give you, you know, additional money every month so that this way you, you'll be your, you'll be your own landlord, but it'll be at least you have, I think you have more control over who's coming in and staying in your, in your property.

Even, even though some of these companies that actually go out and then they market your rental property for you are usually pretty good on vetting the guests that come in.

Some, I know from experience are not that good on vetting the homeowners who are listing the property.

So again, as an individual, you have to do your own due diligence.

But we're going to take a short break.

When we come back, we're going to have more talk with Brad.

We want to get into a little bit of financing and stuff and we want to talk about the future of housing and how tiny homes can fit into that plan.

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All right, we are back and you are listening to Boxcar Universe and we are here with Brad Jones.

We're talking about tiny homes today and all the different things that you need to know and how best you can approach.

And if you are thinking of doing a tiny home, you need, you need guidance and you need someone who knows how it's built, all the different loopholes that are in there because there are a lot of different things you have to be concerned about and, and made aware of.

So that this way I, and I firmly believe Brad and I know you, you, you feel the same way that an informed homeowner, homeowner is going to be a better customer because they're going to understand what you're doing.

100, You know.

Yes.

And that's so very, that's so very important.

Like in communication is a top priority.

I know I always make sure I let the homeowner know exactly what's going on and the phases that we're at, what, what milestones we're going to hit so that they understand that you know what's coming like each week in the progress of your build because you know, you Hear those stories of people.

Contractor came in and he said, yeah, we're going to get started.

And he gets started and then all of a sudden he disappears for like two weeks.

And you don't, they don't tell you unless like, and they go off on some other project that they got more money on and leave the other person high and dry wondering, okay, well, what's going on?

You know, they got to be really careful about that because you know, a lot of contractors, and I'm sure you've heard horror stories where homeowners, the contractors just leave the project and they abandon the project.

And there's serious consequences for that if you get caught by Arizona registered contractors.

Plus me, I've seen it happen.

So again, as a homeowner, you should do the proper vetting to make sure that the contractor that you are using is always licensed, bonded and insured.

It makes sure you get references from previous clients to make sure that, to give you that level of comfortability when you're ready to say, okay, Brad, let's get started.

You know, your confidence is there that Tiny Homes of Tucson is going to do the best job that they could possibly can for you and you're going to be proud of your home.

And that's so important, to be able to be proud of your home and to share it with neighbors and family and friends.

Hey, look what, look what I had done here.

And that's so important.

I agreed.

And I will tell you, I'll plug this vendor that we use, which is Jobtread.

It's a software that basically runs the entire project management aspect of our business.

But one of the cool things about it is we are able to set up a, a customer or a client portal.

So as soon as they approve a custom construction agreement, they get an invite to create their username and password.

That software is the tool that we use to communicate.

That's where they can, they can access their plans, they can access their construction agreement.

They can, they can see all the design selections they made.

But the other piece is, it has a, it has a built in live calendar with the delivery schedule or the build schedule on it.

So they can look at any morning, they could get up in the morning and they see a truck pull up, they can pull up online and say, who is that?

Oh, that's the plumber.

He's here today.

They're going to do the underground, you know, they're doing the underground plumbing.

Or I can see next week we're going to have flooring put in.

Or this is going to be delivered.

And that when we start that schedule, I think it's 81 days.

So we say 90 days because, you know, there are going to be some, some delays here and there, but we want to shoot for it.

But I mean, you're showing the customer this is exactly what's going to happen every single day.

And then they feel comfortable that they can hold you to that.

Right.

And it is, it is an excellent communication tool and definitely something that we talk about when we're, when we're talking to a client about, you know, potentially working with us is this is what you're going to get.

This is what the user experience, the client experience is going to be.

And I'm fairly confident that nobody else in Tucson at least is utilizing something like that.

But it's a, I mean, I didn't create it.

Okay.

I just using a company that did.

Anybody could use it and, and, and should if they're doing ADU builds.

You're right.

And for our lists, what was the name of that website or that it's called Job Tread.

T R E A D. Oh, Job Tread.

Okay, great.

I'll have to check that out.

Yeah, Very, very cool.

Very powerful.

And they could charge a lot more.

Happy they don't.

Well, you know, don't spread the word too much.

They really raise the rate.

But Brad, tell us a little bit about financing.

Okay.

People that are interested in doing that because I know there is, there's a lot of different, you know, different companies that use verbiage that like for instance, if you got, if you're going in for a permit for a container home, okay, people used to, you know, when I say people, I'm talking about the city now turn around in there like, well, you know, container homes.

Then when, years ago when, when that started to really take root that they, the cities had no clue what was going on.

And you as everything else, you need to learn to work with the system.

And then before you know it, you know, you'd have to go back and use different terminology that they were more familiar with with, you could say a manufactured home and that covered, you know, your traditional manufactured home that you know, like you're always have seen in the past.

But container homes kind of slid into that, into that.

So that when they looked at, oh yeah, manufactured home and it allowed things to move through the system a lot easier so that this way plans go through easier and, and they have a, they have references to manufactured homes.

A lot of times when they did container homes years ago, they had nothing to reference Them to.

So the first, first thing they did was rejected.

You know, that's it.

I mean, you're like understanding.

I know I did.

I was working with an interior designer years ago and, and the builder, God, we went through all kinds of problems with the city of Scottsdale because they had no clue what to reference it against.

And in the area, there was no other container homes that they can use comps for.

Right.

So, yeah.

So it's, it's really important to be able to, you know, to be, for the city to understand what's going on.

But what other ways can people finance a tiny home?

Yeah, well, I would say, you know, probably three plus years ago, it was very, very challenging to finance a tiny home for that very reason.

There were no comps established.

Today, at a bare minimum, I know at least two different programs that are post construction loans.

So they, and they base that on 90% of the value of the actual build or 125% of the price of the primary residence, whichever is less.

So if you have a house that's $400,000, 125% of that is 5, they're going to say post construction, this property is going to be worth 500,000.

Well, if you have, you know, $300,000 of a mortgage and you got a hundred thousand dollars in equity, you now have $200,000 worth of equity on a construction loan.

And you can probably afford to borrow and build one of these.

But the most popular way that people are doing them right now is, is definitely the heloc.

Right.

And, and it, the HELOC is the least expensive way to finance it during the course of the build because you're only taking out pieces as you need it.

Not all of the, getting it funded up upfront at once.

I get something funded up front at once and I'm making the mortgage payment on that 200 grand.

Let's just say sure, for three months.

There's nothing happening at all.

You're trying to get, I'm trying to get plans made and permits created and all that kind of stuff.

So you're in a traditional heloc.

You're not having to front all that money out of the gate.

And then what?

And then a lot of people who are somehow going to be compensated.

Someone maybe is paying rent or assisting with the person that's going to be living there during that course of the bill where you're getting no collective money, you want that number to be as low as possible.

So those are the two that we traditionally see.

It's either a post construction type of loan or a heloc.

Yeah.

So I think a lot of people, I know a lot of people that are looking for HELOCs in building room additions on their home.

It is very popular.

And it's like you say, you don't have to pay interest on that lump sum when things aren't moving as quickly as you want.

So you pay only on what you use.

And I think, I think that's so very important.

Brad, what do you think is the future going forward with tiny homes?

Where do you think we're going to be here, like in the next five or ten years?

Yeah, the analysts say that it's going to be, it's going to go from an 8.6 to a $14 billion industry.

So that's significant, significant growth.

I think the, if you just look across the board of what's happened over the last say 10, 15, 20 years, the cost of housing has gone up, the cost of gas has gone up, the cost of everything has gone up.

The one thing that hasn't gone up at the same rate is income.

And so one of the reasons that we've got this kind of wacky situation where so many people can't afford to buy a house, the average, sorry, the median age of an American buying a house for the first time is 41.

That's the median.

Wow, that seems a little later than it used to be.

Yeah, I mean 10 years ago it was in the 20s, right now it's 41.

So with that kind of, with that in play and this concept of multi generational living becoming more acceptable, I think people are going to start to migrate more and more to guest, guest houses.

The, the skit.

I, I almost think this is the scarier number.

But when you look at the percent of males that are living at home under the age of 30, it's like 62% or something crazy like that.

Right.

Wow.

And so the, you start looking at some of those statistics and just the, the overall concept of people are more comfortable staying near, close to their parents.

I mean, I got out when I was 18 and I never went back, but.

And they're good people and they were good people.

That was all on me.

But I think between those two things, it's going to become more common to be able to build a guest house.

You know, one of my, one of the biggest sources of leads and opportunities I get is from realtors who are, they've got a client and that client is saying, I need a house with a separate guest house.

That's what I want.

They already have the need for it.

And so of course there's not enough of those established.

If they were to buy one of those, it's probably, it was the best of the seven that they didn't like, right?

Where I say tell that client to go buy the house they want.

We'll build the guest house in the back.

You don't need to, you don't need to just settle for the ones that are out there.

So I think that the opportunity is huge.

Yeah, I think, I think you're right.

It's gonna be a great need for it and not just for the people like for instance, that are living in, see down in, you know, in Arizona, Tucson, Phoenix area and everywhere else.

You know, with a lot of the migration that's happening across the country where, like when, let's use California, for instance, you know, people are just waiting to can, can we get out of here now?

Because gas is 2 bucks higher than you know, it is everywhere else, you know, and taxes are too high.

They're going to places where, you know, it's, it's, it's more comfortable and economic to live in in these other places.

And if it is a whole family or something like that, then yeah, I mean, you see license plates and stickers all over the place.

Don't California rise, Arizona, please.

Right.

Yeah, but you know, the other, I mean, I know we've been talking a lot about the concept of tiny homes ready to use as guest houses, but the other big opportunity is in middle housing and infill projects.

So they just passed January 1st, the middle housing initiative in Tucson.

I think it's also in Phoenix and anything over like 70,000 population, they've.

In the city of Tucson right now, virtually the entire city, any single family residents can have four property, four residences on that property as long as they stay inside the lot.

Coverage requirements and the setbacks.

Right.

When they did that, they also reduced the minimum square footage required for a property to be a property so to be zoned that way.

So in our two zoned property, which is between 8 and 2, 10,000 square feet, and there's a ton of them, right.

That used to have a 5,000 square foot minimum requirement.

So if it was between 8 and 10,000ft, you couldn't do anything with it.

It's, it is what it is today, they reduce it to 4,000.

January 1st.

You can tear that down for about $30,000 and get rid of it.

Split that lot and build four residences, four small homes on each of those properties.

And you can even go two stories.

So they could be 800 square foot, two bedroom, two bath, four of them on each of those split properties.

That one property, you now have eight houses where you had one.

And investors, people who have these rental properties all over Tucson, we need to educate them that this is an option.

I mean you can take without buying any more land.

You can go from having one rental unit to eight.

Right.

And.

And right now Tucson has a shortage of 35, 000 houses.

Tucson.

Wow.

So.

And that.

Which is why you see them putting in programs like this.

We got to figure out a way to kind of cut into this in Tucson.

It's not even gonna much farther out.

There's no water.

There's.

There's.

There's no, you know, horizontal setup there.

We don't have sewers.

We don't have any of that.

So you can't just go out there.

We've got to figure out how to take advantage more of what is available within the city limits themselves.

Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a great way to look, to be able to look at it.

And with a need like that, yeah, it's something that you could definitely fill.

And in it'd be a great business, business plan to be able to go and say, hey, you know, we could fill this need.

Let's go after it.

And I could see that being a great growth factor in long run.

Especially like you said, Tucson.

I had no idea that they were short that much housing.

Yeah, it's.

It's incredible.

So I mean, as soon as I finish this personal project of getting our house done next year, we will start.

And I've already looked at a, you know, spotted a couple of properties.

I'm like, man, I hope those are still there three months from now.

Probably won't be, but there will be something out there.

And you can, you know, we could, we could build 24 houses on three lots next year.

And I also started Last year a 501c3 nonprofit version of our company called Tiny villages of Tucson, where I would be looking to utilize a community land trust program so that I could provide affordable housing.

You would have to qualify by not making more than 80% of average median income, whatever, and go through some of those processes.

But you could sell people the house, they lease the land for a hundred bucks a month or something like that.

But then they can buy that house, they own it, they can resell it.

There are limitations on how much money you can make on it because we want to try to keep affordable housing affordable.

But someone could buy a house, you know, a two bedroom, two bath house for $165,000.

You can't do that anywhere in Tucson.

And it's brand new.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a, I mean it's a great price.

It's unbelievable.

But Brad, tell our listeners a little bit how they can contact you.

Sure.

So website is tiny homesoftwiscon.com that's pretty simple.

But my email is even simpler.

It's just braducson.com and my phone number.

That's great, Brad.

And if you have any questions at all, I encourage all of you to contact Brad and schedule a consultation with him.

Talk to him about what you'd like to do.

And oh, one more thing before, before we wrap up the show, I wanted to touch base and ask you.

Okay, so we talked a lot about tiny homes in that you're building here in Arizona.

Have you done any work outside the state at all?

I have not.

But hot off the press here we have.

We are getting ready to launch a company called Adu Build Print.

And it is basically without having to buy into a franchise, it's your own company.

We basically take exactly what we've done here to establish, you know, We've sold over $17 million in two years of projects.

And I haven't mentioned this until now, but I will, I only have one employee.

We do all of this through software operationalizing, outsourcing and we've got a, I mean we close 44, four projects in the last 48 hours.

So we have a process that works.

And so I'm going, I'm kind of packaging that.

And it will be a software as a service kind of program.

But all the different platforms I use are going to be pulled into one.

And people who want to do this, tradespeople who are thinking, gosh, I wish I could get into that business.

I just wouldn't even know where to start and how would I get the marketing and all that.

We take care of the whole thing, soup to nuts.

And so although I physically won't be in other states, the program and our process will be.

Oh, that's great, great.

Good luck with that.

That's going to be pretty awesome.

Thank you.

To get that word out and get, get people interested in other, other parts of the country.

It's all about, you know, ran, it's all about innovation.

I mean, and it's not just all in construction.

It's the thought process on how you're able to help other people and put systems together to, to bring people's dreams come true.

So that's just really, it's really good.

Good luck with that.

Thank you, sir.

And I want to thank all our listeners too to listening to Boxcar Universe.

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