In this weeks episode, Dr Renee White is joined by Melissa Hays, a seasoned IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant) and Holistic Sleep Coach, to tackle some of the most common and frustrating breastfeeding myths. Together, they dive into the misconceptions and misinformation that often overwhelm mums, offering clarity and confidence to navigate your feeding journey.

Navigating the sea of advice, unsolicited opinions, and outdated beliefs can be overwhelming as a mum. Melissa is here to set the record straight, offering practical, evidence-based guidance and plenty of reassurance. You’ll walk away from this episode feeling informed, supported, and ready to embrace your unique feeding journey.

You’ll Hear About:

• Is Breastfeeding Supposed to Hurt? When discomfort is normal and when it’s time to get help.
• Milk Supply Myths: Why soft breasts or small size don’t mean you’re not making enough milk.
• Breastfeeding While Sick: How your breast milk can actually help your baby when you’re unwell.
• Beyond Nutrition: Why breastfeeding is about so much more than food—it’s about connection and comfort.
• Drowsy But Awake: Why this popular sleep advice often doesn’t work and better alternatives to try.

Breastfeeding can be one of the most rewarding yet challenging parts of early motherhood. With the sheer amount of conflicting advice available, it’s easy to feel unsure, overwhelmed, or even defeated. From social media to well-meaning friends and family, the noise can drown out your instincts and make it hard to know what’s truly best for you and your baby.

Whether you’re dealing with discomfort, concerns about your milk supply, or the pressure of external opinions, you’ll find actionable tips and comforting validation here. Let this episode be your reminder that you’re not alone in this journey, and with the right guidance, you can navigate the challenges of breastfeeding with confidence and ease.

Resources and Links:

Shop Dr. Renee’s Birthday Special: Use code LOVEFYC for 20% off lactation cookie mixes, Creamy Coconut Dahl, and Postpartum Recovery Sitz Bath Kits at ifillyourcup.com.

Learn more about Dr Renee White and Explore Fill Your Cup Doula Services

Want to be nurtured and nourished after the birth of your baby, have a peek at our doula offerings.

If you want to gobble up our famous Chocolate + Goji lactation cookies, look no further!

Follow Us on Instagram: @fillyourcup_

Follow Melissa Hays on Instagram: @cocoonandcradle

Learn more about Melissa’s breastfeeding & sleep support services

Join the conversation:

Have a breastfeeding myth or question? Send us a DM or message, we’d love to hear from you and might even cover it in a future episode!

Disclaimer: The information on this podcast presented by the Fill Your Cup is not a substitute for independent professional advice.

Nothing contained in this podcast is intended to be used as medical advice and it is not intended to be used to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, nor should it be used for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for your own health professional's advice.

[00:00:27] I'm Dr. Renee White and this is The Science of Motherhood. Hello and welcome to episode 158 of the Science of Motherhood. I am your host, Dr. Renee White. Thank you so much for joining me today. It is a special week this week, it is birthday week, not birthday of FYC. It is my birthday and in order to celebrate, we are giving all of our beautiful listeners a little, a little present, a little gift.

[00:01:31] Get over to ifillyourcup.com and then head to our shop and you can get all the cookies, all the dahl, all the sitz that you need. Just so you know, those cookie mixes and dahl mixes are dry mixes, so you can pop them in the pantry, they've got a shelf life of about eight months. So perfect gift for yourself. Perfect gift for a new mama, a busy mama and you can also whip those up straight away and pop them in the freezer. They keep for like two to three months. So easy peasy. Again, loveFYC is the code L O V E FYC for 20 percent off all of our products. All right, let's jump into today's episode is a guest episode.

[00:02:57] However, an IBCLC, an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant is regulated and they have to do hundreds of hours of in person consults and they need to do like, I think it's like seven subjects, a four hour exam. They need to be re accredited like every four or five years, it is real deal people. So if there is one thing that you need to get out of this episode, it is, please only engage with an IBCLC if you are requiring, um, support with your feeding journey, whether that be breastfeeding, bottle feeding, pumping, whatever it is, IBCLCs. If you don't know where you can find an IBCLC, please contact me I will find you one. We're well connected with all of them because I'm so fussy. Jump onto our website, ifillyourcup.com, there'll be a link in the show notes in this podcast and go on the homepage, scroll down and you will see a little question kind of contact us box for name, phone number, email message. Just pop the details in there and say, please, Renee, I need your help. I need a lactation consultant. Find me one and I will find you one. Okey doke.

[00:04:47] It was, we were kind of, um, jumping around going, what are we going to talk about? Like, what do we think the most valuable thing is? And what we ended up landing on is almost like a rapid fire of like, let's just start busting myths because there's so many of them out there. So much misinformation and so today in our episode we have got Mel and me just in the hot seat and we are churning out and debunking all these myths that we hear about everywhere.

[00:05:48] Send this to a friend, a family member, if they are struggling with feeding or they have heard some crazy, crazy myth. Actually, that's one thing, if you have heard a crazy myth and we don't cover it in this podcast, send me a DM, jump onto our Instagram at fill your cup, underscore send me a DM with your craziest advice you've ever received about feeding your baby. I would be, I would be so interested to hear this and maybe we might cover off how and where that actual thing came from. All right, then here is Mel Hays.

[00:06:33] Melissa Hays: Hello, Good, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and to chat to you today.

[00:06:56] Today we are going to be talking about, and we were joking offline about this, but this, this is how this podcast happens, right? We just evolve and we just move as, as we talk, we're going to be talking about really hard and fast questions. And these are things that we see pop up on Facebook mum groups all the time.

[00:07:35] Melissa Hays: Yeah, that sounds perfect.

[00:07:47] Melissa Hays: Yes, yeah, sure. Well, I, um, basically live on the Gold Coast in lovely Australia. So, as you've already introduced me, my name is Melissa. I am an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant and Holistic Sleep Coach, but my background was actually in pediatric nursing and midwifery. Um, I basically have worked with kids my whole life.

[00:08:26] And then had a baby and got a very rude shock and basically it was just like, probably most mums, like really confused, really overwhelmed, particularly around some of the advice we get around feeding and sleep, which you'll probably chat about a few of those myths today. Um, and that's what kind of spurred me on because as we were talking about before, like you see this information in mother's groups and it's like, you know, some of it is honestly dreadful.

[00:09:06] Dr Renee White: Oh my God. I love that so much. And isn't it the classic case. And I find this so often because I talked to, you know, my doula clients about this. I was like, I was in science I knew how to critically analyse, I got a PhD in biochemistry. I was an attorney, like a top of my game. I knew how to research, research, research, and then you get to motherhood and your brain just, whoosh, like it lets everything in and you lose, I think the ability to critically analyse and, um, I was talking to someone the other day, it's almost like we've got this fine filter, you know, before motherhood of like the information and we've got really good BS radars.

[00:10:29] Melissa Hays: It is a hundred percent. Definitely agree with you there.

[00:10:48] Melissa Hays: So I would say that is definitely a fiction. So this is something that we hear all the time where mums get told it's normal for it to be painful. It's normal for it to be painful. And what I would say is that it can definitely be uncomfortable in those first two weeks because you're not used to somebody sucking on your nipple and your breast 24 seven. I mean, maybe you are and that's okay. No judgment, but most people aren't. And so, you know, it is this change where like your boobs are like, what is happening? Cause suddenly you have this baby attached to you 24 seven. So I generally say it takes like two weeks. I have found personally for myself as well from having three kids.

[00:11:38] Like it should be something where it's a little bit uncomfortable sometimes in the beginning, but then by the time you get to two weeks, really. There shouldn't be any pain and it shouldn't be pain anyway that's lasting throughout a feed and find a lot of mums kind of do this thing where they're like, okay, well it's going to be painful.

[00:12:07] And it's much harder to then get back to the point of them, you know, looking really healthy and not being painful. So I find if you do have painful feeds, that's one of the things that I would say, definitely reach out to an IBCLC early on to try to get on top of it. So you're not going to be down the track where, you know, you are suffering with every feed because, uh like bleeding painful nipples. It's just no fun for anyone.

[00:13:08] Melissa Hays: Yeah, exactly. I think they actually can be a great tool, but they kind of, I wouldn't use it as like a fix. Like if you're having, you know, for example, like we're talking about with painful feeds, I wouldn't use that as a fix. I think they can definitely help with healing. Cause we know that silver has antimicrobial, antibacterial, like all of these wonderful qualities with it. But I would say like the best thing is going to be getting some support. Whether it's like your attachment or positioning that needs changing or whether there's anything else going on with that baby or with yourself, I think you need to get to the root cause of why there's that pain to begin with or damage to begin with.

[00:13:51] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:14:02] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Great advice. Fact or fiction it's not, it's normal not to produce enough milk. It's normal not to produce enough milk.

[00:14:41] Dr Renee White: And you wake up in the morning and you're like, holy moly when did that happen? And they feel like, I don't know about you, but like, I've only had one child, so I've only had one journey of breastfeeding, but I remember waking up and just this tightness and you're like, Oh my God, how am I going to relieve this?

[00:15:32] And that's when a lot of mums think that they have lost a bit of their milk, but really it's a really normal process and you've just got to that point of equilibrium um, and so when we think about the concept of not producing enough milk, it's definitely in the minority, not the majority. Um, we know that this is the case for some mums, but it's such a small percentage. And a lot of the time I find that even this comes from family where like, you know, I see mums when they're like, oh, my sister couldn't produce enough milk. My mum couldn't produce enough milk. And they've got that kind of fear in their mind already, even before they start feeding baby too. Yeah. So that's what I think.

[00:16:25] Melissa Hays: Yeah, that is also a great one. Um, again, that is 100 percent fiction. So I have always been like an A to a B cup and then I've always had an oversupply with every single one of my kids that actually got worse with the more kids that I've had.

[00:16:40] Melissa Hays: What you have, like your breast size definitely does not indicate your, you know, breast milk making capacity by any way, shape or form. So, um, you don't have to stress, like if you're an A cup that you're not going to produce enough milk for your baby, definitely not. Or, you know, you might be really confident if you've got larger breasts that you'll be fine producing milk and then some of those mums have difficulties as well. So, definitely isn't the case. There's no correlation between breast size and the amount of produce, the amount of milk you can produce. Um, interestingly, what we do know actually, is that breast hold different storage capacities. So you might have one breast that holds a lot more milk than the other breast, which is interesting. I don't know if you find the, could you have, you had like a super boob and a slacker boob or one breast, like a bit of a higher achiever.

[00:17:53] Melissa Hays: They do, don't they? They do. Um, and it's so funny because that boob is often different for different mums. Like my right is the big, it's like the one that reduces more. And if I'm the one that's like, no, a hundred percent, it's my left.

[00:18:20] But if your breasts have a larger storage capacity, you might not have to feed your baby as frequently for them to get that same amount of milk in that 24 hour period. So try not to compare yourself to your friends. Like if your baby is feeding every one and a half hours, but their baby's feeding every three hours, try not to compare because it might just be down to the fact that you both just have different storage capacities.

[00:19:14] And I was like, Oh my God, I must be underfeeding my child because she was on and off the boob in like 10 or 15 minutes and I was like, I didn't know anything about lows and milk pastity or anything like that. But I was just kind of like, Oh my God, I'm not keeping to a time schedule, this three hour, four hour concept. And then why, why am I feeds like so short? So I started to panic. So it's so good to hear that. Everyone is different, you know what? And also one child can take 10 minutes. One child can take 45 minutes, right?

[00:20:19] There's absolutely nothing wrong with that um, I would definitely say like, if you are concerned about your baby's feeding, the easiest way is just to think like what goes in is coming out the other end. So what's going in their mouth is coming out the other end. So if they're showing you, they're doing plenty of wees, plenty of poo, they're gaining weight, like they're all such reassuring signs that they're getting enough.

[00:20:52] Melissa Hays: Yeah. Yeah that's right,

[00:21:26] Melissa Hays: Yeah.

[00:21:46] Can we, like, just put a big fat like BABOW on this concept of feed, play, sleep, because it was something that I just, it didn't compute to me, but I kept trying to like, I think force it and I was like,

[00:22:02] Dr Renee White: This doesn't make sense. Right.

[00:22:34] They're drinking that milk that's making them go to sleep. And then you're kind of like, okay, hold on like we need to have play time before we fall asleep. And it's breaking up that connection. And we know that feeding to sleep is so, so normal. Like it's the biological norm. And so I really don't like that they're like you have to kind of break that up and put play in between because for most babies feeding to sleep is going to be the quickest and easiest and most relaxing way to go to sleep.

[00:23:21] Dr Renee White: Yep. Exactly. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. Cause I was just like, I had that recollection of like just the spiraling and it was not,

[00:23:31] Dr Renee White: I thought someone was gonna, you know, that classic thing where you're like, Oh my God, I'm because I'm not following like all this crap that they've taught me. But anyways, okay. That is a big fact fiction. Okay, fact or fiction. You shouldn't breastfeed if you're sick.

[00:24:23] And I don't know if you've found that yourself where like you've had gastro and you've been feeding your baby, but your baby has been caught gastro. It's like, how does that work? Yep. Um, and so there's absolutely no reason I would actually say keep feeding if you're sick because there's antibodies going to be really beneficial to your baby to help protect them from whatever bug you have.

[00:25:10] So I would say keep feeding as much as you can. If you need your partner to help you, if you have a partner to like bring baby to you, I would say feed in bed. I'm absolutely a fan of side lying breastfeeding and reclined breastfeeding from the get go, like from birth. I think they're amazing. And so do whatever you can to make feeding as easy as possible.

[00:25:40] Dr Renee White: That was, yeah, that was definitely the one thing that I was panicked about. I, I had gastro once while I was, yeah, on my breastfeeding journey. And it was, it was that classic case of like, why does gastro always eventuate? At night time I need to investigate this. It does. I need to find out what the go is.

[00:26:51] And I was like, it's okay. Okay. And then I was like, I am not okay. Yeah. Um, quick text to the husband. You better get home pretty quickly. Um, but yes, it is one of those things where it's like, Oh, it's not pleasant, but yeah, just keep feeding. Cause we're like a pharmacy for our kids. Right.

[00:27:25] Like, it's just, it's crazy. It is really crazy how, how amazing breast milk is. And there's still so much that we don't understand about it, but I'm really interested to see like what I find out in like, you know, even 10 years time from now, how much we know.

[00:27:50] Melissa Hays: Oh, yeah. Have you heard this one before?

[00:28:28] Melissa Hays: Yeah and that's usually where I hear it from as well, from that kind of older generation. Um, and it is something that still comes up so much that it's like, you know, I get so many messages from people who are like, it's my, you know, my mother in law is just told me all day today about how like I'm creating and watch my own back, how my baby's going to be so clingy, like all of these things that she's like, I can't handle it.

[00:29:07] And even the mother in law herself, like I heard a story about how she was upset because she can't bond with the baby because they won't let her give the baby a bottle. So, and it's like, Yeah, so no but in general no, 100 percent no that breastfeeding does not make your baby extra clingy, that's 100 percent fiction there's just this massive idea from the older generation that if we co-sleep or if we hold them too much or if we breastfeed that we're going to make them clingy and just none of it is true. We know that. Actually, the closer we are with our little ones gives them that real secure attachment. And we know that it's years of deep dependency that eventually leads to independence.

[00:30:51] Like it's there for that bonding as well. Right. Do you see that in your practice?

[00:31:14] And that breastfeeding provides that comfort and connection as well. And, you know, I was just seeing a mum the other day who, couldn't work out why she couldn't put her newborn baby down in the bassinet and he would sleep for two hours. And it's like, okay, well, let's go back to like back in the caveman days.

[00:31:50] Dr Renee White: Absolutely and I was talking to a client the other day and we were talking about, um, like pre empting, you know, real fresh newborn babies, uh, like super chilled and like sleeping all the time. And it's this false sense of security right. Because it happened to me as well. You're like, Oh my God, I totally got this. This is so cool. And like, my baby will just sleep through the day and then comes to that four, five, six week mark. And they realise that they're out of the womb and they're like, what the actual F is this? And like, they're just like, they're unsettled. And what I see. And I was preempting this with one of my mamas and I was like, just so you know, you haven't done anything wrong. Cause I see this all the time, mums are like, my God, what have I done? What have like, something's changed? What's going on? Oh my God, I've done something wrong.

[00:33:15] Melissa Hays: Yeah, all the time. And I think even like what you were saying, it's just giving them that reassurance that this is okay. This is normal. And then that kind of, if you think about yourself as a new mum, it kind of just like lets you breathe a sigh of relief and you're like, okay, like I can turn off the sensors in my brain. Like you know, this is okay. I don't need to stress about this and it gives you that permission then to kind of lean into that season a bit more rather than fighting against it because so many mums are like what you were saying. They're like, you know, they feel like they're doing something wrong because their baby's not sleeping by themselves or they're, you know, they're not doing X, Y, and Z, but when you have that permission and you understand that that's actually really normal and that's what, you know, what the majority of newborns are going to do, it's like, Oh, okay, I can accept that and I can, you know, maybe start to enjoy this period that I'm in a bit more.

[00:34:03] Melissa Hays: Yeah. It's that relief, isn't it?

[00:34:21] Melissa Hays: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

[00:34:28] Melissa Hays: This is definitely. What do you think?

[00:34:38] Melissa Hays: Oh, yeah, it's definitely fiction. You don't have to wait to return to work. So I've had three kids and I have always returned to work while I've still been breastfeeding. But again, I don't know where this information comes from. I'm not sure like where, you know, is it, I'm not sure where they kind of get the information that it's assumed that they have to wean. I see so many mums. They're like, okay, so I'm going back to work. So I have to stop breastfeeding now, but actually you can still breastfeed whenever you're at home with your baby that you can still breastfeed as per usual.

[00:35:33] So that's still sending messages to your body. You still need to create that amount of milk, but yeah, you a hundred percent can keep breastfeeding and also return to work. Um, but it's something that I think you probably need a little bit of preparation time, you know, with yourself learning, learning about a pump. If you haven't used a pump before, if you're taking some time to practice that at home first, speaking to like your manager at work, you've got a mentor at work, but how that's going to look when you return to work, even learning about, you know, things like what can help you let down when you're at work. Cause we know that if we're really stressed, that's going to stop our let down.

[00:36:18] Dr Renee White: You're like, come on body and then it's like, no, you're not chilled out and relaxed. I have no oxytocin. I've got nothing for you. And you're like,

[00:36:41] Because then you've got that time to prepare, prepare yourself, talk to your work, you know, prepare your baby. And then even talking about like, you know, paced bottle feeding, like depending on who's looking after your baby, if that's like a grandparent or a daycare, like how they can work with you as well to kind of support your breastfeeding journey, depending on what your breastfeeding goals are.

[00:37:47] And I got, mastitis for the first time in my whole breastfeeding journey when I returned back to work because it was the stress it to me was like having to wear really supportive bras the whole time I like I was working corporate and so you know I wasn't able to wear my oversized t shirts and um tights I just wasn't like the uniform was not my mum uniform and yeah, the mastitis was terrifying for me because I didn't know what was going on.

[00:38:41] Like, cause it happens so quickly, you know, like within 30 minutes. And my husband like had to, pick me up and carry me to the car to get me to my GP. Oh. And was calling them going, there's something wrong with my wife. And I'm going like, you know, you know how you get that like real hotness, like that inflammation in your breast?

[00:39:09] Melissa Hays: Oh gosh. And  mastitis, it's horrible. Like I've had mums who've had  mastitis who reckon it's worse than labor. Who they're like, I would rather go through labor again because that was horrible. And then other mums who haven't had it or caught it super early and maybe haven't had it as bad. There's such a spectrum with mastitis.

[00:39:22] Melissa Hays: But um, gosh, yeah, that would have been so scary.

[00:39:39] Melissa Hays: Yeah. So again, this is going to be a common one in your Facebook groups, isn't it? Just give the baby a bottle, put rice cereal in their bottle, give them some formula to make them sleep longer, stop breastfeeding. That's why they're waking up. Um, definitely the research shows you that breastfeeding mums actually get slightly more sleep just by like, I think it's 20 minutes or something overnight, but not by much than formula feeding mum.

[00:40:18] So like you're not having to trench down the upstairs or the other side of a house or anywhere to go like see baby, settle baby, put them back to sleep. Like I'm a big fan of keeping them close to you. I co-slept with Amelia, my third baby from day dot, and I reckon it got me the most sleep out of all three kids, but obviously that's not for everyone.

[00:40:52] Dr Renee White: I agree completely. I, so we shared a room for the first six months, I think it was and then we, you know, had Eva in another room and just that trudging down the hallway, like it was like, you know, geographically, it wasn't that long, but it's that concept of like getting up, putting my dressing gown on, going down the hallway, going to her room, blah, blah, blah, like all of this stuff.

[00:41:47] And I was like, there is no chance she is sleeping by herself and so we set up co-sleeping arrangements and you can only imagine like, so exhausted when you have a sick child. Yeah, but I swear. And I remember saying this to my husband, I feel so well rested. with co-sleeping. This is, it doesn't make sense.

[00:42:55] Melissa Hays: Yeah. Yeah. And it does work well with so many families. Like, it was really interesting. Actually, I think I really liked having the three kids and then being able to do like slightly different things with each one. Because I was similar to you with my first. You know, this is almost seven years ago. Again, had the fear of God by co-sleeping. Hadn't done, you know, didn't, hadn't read any of the things that I've read now or done any of the research that I've done now.

[00:43:31] Dr Renee White: It's right behind me. Uh, which yeah. Yeah,

[00:43:38] Dr Renee White: Hold on, where am I? I'm trying to point with the camera.

[00:43:41] Dr Renee White: There, it's there, that one there.

[00:44:06] If that's not right for you, what are other ways you can keep your baby close overnight as well? But I found that book was honestly a game changer out of everything I've kind of read and learned about co-sleeping.

[00:44:44] Melissa Hays: Yeah, definitely fiction. So you have those special hormones that we chatted about earlier. They are going to be designed to make your baby sleepy, make you feel super relaxed as well, which is why, like when you were saying as well with co-sleeping, like often you feed them really quickly, they stir, you feed them, everybody just goes back to sleep super quickly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding to sleep.

[00:45:17] And so, yeah, this is something that does come up all the time for me though. I see so many mums that like, there's so much guilt around this, but it's so normal. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. And it really is often the quickest and easiest way to get everybody off to sleep.

[00:46:02] How do you do drowsy but awake? And like, I think I tried it a couple of times with my daughter and I was like, so what you're telling me is I have to almost extract her off my boob, which you try and take a boob off a kid and it's not gonna end well, right? No. I was just like, how do It's like a dog with a bone.

[00:46:39] Melissa Hays: I was just falling asleep and then you just taken it off me.

[00:46:46] Melissa Hays: Yeah. Yeah. And honestly, unless you have those unicorn, really super easygoing babies? Like some babies have that super easygoing temperament. You know, the ones that are just like, so cruisy. Yeah. That is not the majority of babies.

[00:47:14] There's no way they're going to fall asleep. None of my kids would have done drowsy, but awake. And like the second or third time I didn't even bother trying. So I was like, what is the point? Like, that's just not them. That's not their unique temperament. They're not, they're not a super chill easygoing baby that just does whatever.

[00:47:36] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Unless you've got like that unicorn baby in that 2 percent of the population. Yes. Like all power to you. Great. Um, but for the other 98 percent of us, we'll be over here just feeding our babies to sleep. All right. This is what we're gonna have to do. Yeah. Okay. Fact or fiction. Once your baby is one years old, Then breastfeeding is just for comfort.

[00:48:31] And that's without any of the other immunological and amazing benefits of breastfeeding. Breast milk has, um, so it's definitely not just for comfort. I think we're talking a bit earlier about how it's live and how it changes. Like it changes to meet your toddler's needs. And so it's not like it gets to a point where it's one and it just shuts off its nutritional value. Like it's always, it's always nutritional. It's always good for them. And it's just going to change to meet them where they're at.

[00:49:43] Like it doesn't make sense, right?

[00:49:48] Dr Renee White: Okay. I love this. We're totally squashing everything.

[00:49:59] Dr Renee White: And also the caveat is look, we're not trying to poo poo Facebook groups at all. There are huge benefits for like, you know, making friends and all the rest. But honestly, try not to get like, your education from a Facebook group and like fact check it, you know, like try and find an expert. Um, yeah. Okay, cool. Fact or fiction. Pumping is a good way to tell how much milk you have. Oh my god, I'm so glad we are covering this. Please, Mel, tell the listeners, please.

[00:51:09] And what we know is that babies are always going to be the experts in getting milk out of your boobs. They are the ones that are going to be able to get that milk out a lot easier than any man made machine is going to be able to um, and there's just no link. There's no link between pumping and your breast milk supply.

[00:51:49] And it kind of feeds into this loop of like, there goes your oxytocin, which is what we need for the letdown and everything. Um, so please, mamas, if anyone tells you that just politely say, that's not accurate it's not true.

[00:52:14] So there's a lower overall volume, but that milk is higher in fat. And so they go through the day and if you see their pump bottles, they're like massive, smaller, smaller, smaller, smaller. And then they're like, what is wrong in that? It's like I'm pumping in the evening. I'm getting not that much compared to the morning, but it's just that that's what happens. Our volume decreases, but the fat content increases. So you're going to get a lower volume when you pump at the end of the day compared to when you do at the beginning of the day. So just knowing that there's nothing wrong with your body. This is what. This is what ever happens to everybody.

[00:52:58] Melissa Hays: This is definitely probably the theme of the conversation fiction. So there is no truth that you have to pump and dump. So what happens is. I do see mums as well where they're like, okay, I'll have a drink and then I'll pump, I'll get rid of that breast milk and then I'm all good. It's just time. Time is the only thing that is going to allow that alcohol to get out of your breast milk. And we know that it's the same as your blood. So if we think about like your blood alcohol concentration, your blood kind of filters in and out. And that's going to be the same as the concentration of alcohol in your breast milk.

[00:53:45] And I know that ABA does have an app, I think called It's safe, which you can use if you're wanting a bit more guidance around that as well. And the only time I would say you would pump is if you're going to be away from your baby during the time that you would usually be feeding. Like for example, if you're going to a wedding, you know, you're going to be away from them for like six hours.

[00:54:26] Dr Renee White: I love that, like, uh, just rechanneling that resource, a little breast milk bath instead of feeding. That's a good idea. Thank you, Mel. Thank you. Not that I have another baby, but that is something, that is a little tidbit to pass on to, um, families.

[00:55:09] Melissa Hays: Yeah. And they send us into like, they send us into stress, unnecessarily stressed spirals, like where everybody's running around like headless chickens, worried about all of these things that aren't even true, which is, you know, motherhood is stressful enough already we don't need all of those, all of those mantras on top of it.

[00:55:28] Melissa Hays: Yeah.

[00:55:34] Melissa Hays: Ah, top tip.

[00:55:41] Melissa Hays: I think like from having three kids, my top tip, especially thinking about breastfeeding related would be learn how to side lie breastfeed from like day one. And if you don't know how to do that, see an IBCLC to help show you how to do that. Because that has honestly been the biggest lifesaver, um, with all of my three kids and the way that I've got the most rest. It's just learning how to do that really early on because you're lying there. It's more relaxing.

[00:56:25] It's more uncomfortable. Like who wants to sit up all day, especially if you had a tear or whatever's happened during birth, um, Um, yeah, that would be my best tip. I think if you're a breastfeeding mum or you're pregnant listening to this, if you haven't tried side lying breastfeeding, your baby's already here try it today. Um, I do have a reel on my Instagram page around it. Otherwise, you know, if you're pregnant, even learn some of the tips now. So after you have baby, you can kind of work it out together and often practicing during the daytime versus easier. Cause then you can see what you're doing. So then you'll find doing it at nighttime.

[00:57:17] And so many people say to me, Oh, But I'm not actually lactating. Like, how can I possibly get organised and prepared? And I'm like, OMG, so many things that you can do. So yes, please contact an IBCLC. If this is something that you want to do, because it's hard work. Like you're doing it 10, 12 times a day. Like you probably want to be prepared for that. Right.

[00:57:58] So then you're like, you've got the basics, you understand a little bit of what's going on and then you can kind of go from there after you have a baby.

[00:58:34] Melissa Hays: Um, I think. Outside of what I'm offering, I reckon that book we talked about earlier is a must read for all parents. I think that even if you never plan on co-sleeping or if you're somebody who always plans on co-sleeping, no matter where you sit in that spectrum, I think every family should read that book from James McKenna, Safe Infant Sleep, because it's just a goldmine of information and resources. Um, otherwise I think find somebody who find that community who support you and have like minded values.

[00:59:38] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think there's a paper that I commonly cite and they talk about the four pillars that mums need to thrive. Particularly in the first six months. And one of those pillars was of sharing experiences with other mums. And as you say, it kind of comes back to that normalising what you're going through, because we do, we feel so lonely in these moments, you know, particularly 3am at night and you think, Oh my God, there's no one else in the world who is doing this right now. But it's that eerie thing where I guarantee you look out that window and there's probably, you know, 10, 15 other mums in your neighborhood doing the exact same thing, far out. This is like, you know, wake up number four.

[01:00:47] Dr Renee White: Exactly. It doesn't matter whether you've got a newborn or you've got a seven year old like me who crawls into bed at 2.30 in the morning. Yeah. Actually, she's, she's got this new saying, um, where I'm like, is everything okay?

[01:01:26] We borrowed this one from Renee Brown. What do you keep on your bedside table?

[01:01:45] So just that thing that like, I'm really. I'm pretty bad at self care, even though I talk so much about the importance of self care to my mums.

[01:02:02] Melissa Hays: So true. So I'm just trying to get back into reading. So I've got a book called Daisy Jones and the six on my bed, which I actually, I'm like three quarters of the way through. So I'm really proud of that. And then I've got another book called Rest, Play, Grow by Dr. Deborah McNamara, which is really good. If you've got toddlers, preschoolers, yeah, but there are also really good ones, people to read.

[01:02:27] Melissa Hays: it's just like a fiction one, but it was, it's really good.

[01:02:55] We were away for 12. No, 14 days. We were away for two weeks. I read 10 books in 14 days.

[01:03:08] Dr Renee White: I did not mother at all. Yeah, it was just like one of those things where like my husband at the time and I had I'd I'd been a reader, but like, you know, you drop off reading when you become a mum. Yeah, I certainly did because I was like, yeah, too tired.

[01:03:51] You slip into this other like realm and reality and it's just, oh man, I absolutely love it. I'm, I click to Kindle now because I can read it in the dark. So when

[01:04:07] Dr Renee White: Oh, do it. I was, I was really against it in the beginning because I was like, no, I like to touch and feel the book and smell it and all the rest of it.

[01:04:33] Melissa Hays: I love it. And Yeah, I think any other mums, if you've got, if you're at the point where you're like, you're mentally able to get into reading again, it's such a nice thing to do at night time before bed.

[01:05:17] Also, you won't get random orders on your doorstep of things that you're not sure about how you and when you bought those things.

[01:05:28] Dr Renee White: But yeah, I found Kindle is a really good substitute to doom scrolling in the middle of the night.

[01:05:40] Yes. So this started with me the other night and I was like, I'm just going to lie down with Amelia on the floor in the lounge room, like just slide my feet and just get my book. And I just read and she ended up just feeding and then ended up drifting off. And then I just moved to the bedroom and put it, put her down in the cot, which is where she is now.

[01:06:09] Dr Renee White: Exactly. A hundred percent. Absolutely. Love it. Uh, readings for the win everyone. Yeah. Mel, where do we find you? You've mentioned a couple of different resources. Let us know your website, Instagram, tell us all the things.

[01:06:33] com um, and you can get all my details there basically. Um, Is there anything else you need to know? I don't think so.

[01:06:45] Melissa Hays: That's okay.

[01:07:01] But yes. All right, everyone. Until next week, I will see you.

[01:07:07] Dr Renee White: If you loved this episode, please hit the subscribe button and leave a review. If you know someone out there who would also love to listen to this episode, please hit the share button so they can benefit from it as well.

[01:07:52] Until next time, bye.