Aaaron, Chris, and Wade sat down with Adam Solomon, currently of Ugly Duck Coffee, to hear about the breadth and depth of his experience in and understanding of serving coffee. Adam's broad-ranging experience brings out unique insights throughout the conversation, ultimately advocating for greater care for baristas and the importance of hospitality skills over coffee-making skills.

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean @joebeanroasters - Ugly Duck @uglyduckcoffee - Rococo @rococo_coffee_ - Crunchicks @crunchicksusa - Aporia @aporiacoffeeco - Eat Local New York @eatlocalnewyork

Mentioned in this episode:

Behind the Glass

Behind the Glass, hosted by Richard B Colón and Quajay Donnell, is a monthly talk with the current month’s BTG Roster. Artists are interviewed about their submissions and we dive deep into their process, inspiration and thought process centralized around their artwork in the Behind the Glass Gallery located in the heart of Downtown Rochester NY. https://behind-the-glass-gallery.captivate.fm/

Welcome to Dialed in.

I'm Wade Reed.

I'm Aaron Pascucci.

And tonight we are joined by our producer, Chris Lindstrom.

Oh, hello.

Hello.

And the one, the only barista extraordinaire, Adam Solomon.

Welcome.

Thank God there's one and only.

I don't think I could handle more than one of me.

I just made us pretty.

What percentage is this beer?

Probably like 10 or 11.

Don't worry about it.

All right.

This is us pre.

Don't worry about it.

Percent beer.

And we're already 13, and we're already there.

Really excited to have you tonight.

Excited to be here.

Yeah.

This is super cool.

And I think, you know, you are four reasons we'll get into a unique representative for the barista community in.

In Rochester.

I. I don't mean anything by that.

I wasn't scared before.

Unique is.

It's like my Greek is a word.

That you can receive, however, interesting individuals.

Yes, exactly.

Interesting individuals all around.

So I think we're all having kind of interesting weeks.

So do we just skip that part of tonight?

I. I. Yeah, I. I had a logistics snafu this morning that I've literally never had in my 15 years of coffee before.

So I'm like, I'm excited.

Really tired of it.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's pretty great.

Yeah, I mean, like, they, you know, they loaded the coffee on the truck on the trailer or.

Sorry, they load the coffee on the trailer.

That's important.

It's a great start.

The truck left without, but not the trailer.

Oh, no.

A truck got reassigned.

Took a different trailer.

So I'm just looking at this tracking info, and it's like, oh, it's just sitting there.

And, yeah, they assured me it'll be here tomorrow, which is great because all my accounts need coffee, apparently Friday.

So woof.

This week.

Really over this week.

Also point out interesting content and then immediately said, let's skip it.

Well, interesting stuff let.

We.

We should just not.

Yeah, but, yeah, do you guys want to, you know, chime in with your crappy weeks?

Aaron, how's your face?

My face sucks.

I like your face.

So.

Is this on YouTube right now?

I mean, eventually.

So Tuesday I felt really crappy.

I went into work because I had a big CSE meeting for my student, so we had to go finalize some, you know, government documents essentially, for his next school year.

Woke up Wednesday morning, felt really bad.

By the time Wednesday afternoon rolled around, Hannah was taking me to the ER And I walked in, and the intake secretary looked at me and said, oh, you have shingles like, without hesitation.

So that sucked.

First of all, here's the really crappy part is I'm legally blind in my right eye, so I have vision out of it, but it's really, really poor.

And I couldn't drive if that was my only eye.

As you guys can kind of see, it's like kind of focused around my left eye.

And so apparently one of these side effects or symptoms of shingles is retinal neurosis.

For those of you not involved, that means that the death of your rate, your retina.

Yeah.

So there was a chance for a while Wednesday night where I thought I was going to be blind for the rest of my life.

So, boy, I think by and large, you know, you and I are having a really good run right now, Aaron.

And.

And believe it or not, this is like the best I've looked in like four days.

Oh, man.

I. I mean, it was the universe saying you look too good.

You know what I mean?

Like, it was.

It's just had to humble you a little bit.

New Adam Solomon was coming on and I couldn't one up, you know, you.

Wouldn't have been able to hold a candle to that face anyway.

So we can just say Adam.

We don't need to include my last.

We're going to.

Every single time.

Yes.

Let's just say he is Adam Solomon.

Yeah.

Government names only, please.

Well then you have to include the middle initial, R. Thank you.

Adam R. Solomon.

Adam is Solomon.

Yeah.

So you know Adam R. Solomon.

Weirdly, like we have the same eye thing.

So like I only have one decent eye.

My other eyes, hot garbage.

So like I've never worn contacts because if I ever damage my other eye, it's all.

That's it.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm so.

Yeah.

Stopped doing recording practice on the weekends.

Traveling home a lot.

Yeah.

His some sick family members.

So starting to travel a bit more for that.

Busy times at work.

But you know what?

The.

I love doing this stuff.

Keeps you.

Keeps you focused on doing something positive and fun.

Started recording Food About Town more recently.

I have seen some of these.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I interviewed.

These will be coming out the next two or three weeks.

Interviewed the guy from Crunchix who's been doing TikTok videos from J Street and Child Street.

Seems very interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Interesting guy.

We did a long interview and then your friend and mine N will be coming up after that.

Yep.

I just saw him today and I mean, unsurprisingly, that was an excellent conversation.

I walked out of feeling better about everything that I did Before, So look out for that.

That's.

Those will be really fun.

So chill.

Yeah.

And apparently also was a.

Like, was a notable journalist in Darjeeling, where he's from.

Yo.

And then was just like, oh, t. Yeah.

Yes.

So that was, like, part of the start of our conversation is like, oh, you were a journalist.

Yeah.

Which also kind of makes sense now that I know it.

But, like, what a fun little thing that I learned about genuinely decent, pleasant man.

Did he jujitsu the interview a little and start interviewing you?

Like, did you.

Did he.

Did he turn it on a little?

Like, was there ever a moment where you're like, okay, hold on.

Who's interviewing whom?

He's too thoughtful for that.

He's way too respectful.

Well, I don't actually mean sometimes those instincts.

Right.

That's true.

Yeah.

No, we.

I thought we had a great conversation, and it's really looking forward for everybody to hear that.

That's fantastic.

So with the way our weeks are going at them, no pressure, but you have to be the bright ray of sunshine on this podcast tonight.

So, honestly, like, that you all think that I remember what happened yesterday?

No, the question's not for you, but we do have questions.

Yeah, we don't care how your week went.

No, like I said, you're just here to bring up our level.

So, Adam, why don't we start with you just telling us, like, who you are, your barista experience, how you got into the industry and kind of where you're at now.

Those are a lot of different questions,.

But there is a logical sequence.

I just didn't put them in said logical sequence.

So who you are, how you got into the industry, what your experience is, where you're at now, that's the more logical sequence.

Heard a dad, a barista, a food and beverage enjoyer, a Pokemon professor, and.

Yeah, that's like the.

The core.

Core.

There's other things.

Sweet.

You're gonna have to keep guiding me.

Yeah.

Again, I can't remember, how'd you get into coffee.

First?

And, like, so Starbucks double shots were my, like, entry.

Yeah.

Gateway drug.

Like, from the gas station or from, like, the Wegmans.

Like that.

Those things, the jars.

You could get them at the gas station.

I think for a while I was picking them up at Starbucks themselves.

Oh, sweet.

Caramel.

Frappuccinos.

Caramel.

Matt, these were Getting me through high school.

That's awesome.

I also was, like, drinking those in high school and staying up super late to read because I was cool like that.

Staying up super late's been a theme for me because that's the only time that nobody else in the house is awake.

Yeah, there you go.

That's the only time that my brain can just shut up, relax.

Yeah.

And that.

That's still true to this day, but late for me now is like 10, 11 o'.

Clock, three or four back then.

All right, all right.

So you start out with the Starbucks, double shots, Gateway.

Yep.

And then stayed hopelessly addicted through, like, my college attempts.

Plural.

Nice.

Yeah.

And once I consigned myself to college not working out, the first place I could get a job was a Dunkin Donuts.

Okay.

What was your attempted degree or degrees?

Let's.

The Nth degree.

Yes.

Go into the nines here.

There was never, like, a degree I had my eyes on.

There was never, like a sub career.

So it's a huge mistake for me to.

This is the millennial story.

You're supposed to go to college.

So you do.

No.

And they left out a lot of details.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The loans and all that good stuff.

Was it a liberal arts degr, if you will.

Yeah.

They would have been happy with any degree because that's.

That's the ticket.

But they left out the fact that even with the degrees, they still needed help from their parents to buy a house and all that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yep.

So Dunkin Donuts.

Dunkin Donuts, where they, like, string you along if you're any good with promotions, management, working way too many hours for more money than the other people.

All right.

And I just kind of fell into routine with that.

And that's kind of the time where I discovered Jobine.

And okay, so we're how.

Name dropping.

Eight or nine minutes in, first jobing mention.

Yeah, it's pretty good.

Not bad.

Yeah.

If you're in coffee in Rochester.

Yeah, exactly the question you post me.

Yeah, absolutely.

Also because, like, legitimately I know the three of you because I met all of you there.

Like, none of us are here.

Yeah.

So you started.

So you visited there first or you ran across them first?

Adam was one of my regulars.

Right.

But it goes a little further back.

There was a pore over experience I had somewhere in St. Louis.

Oh, cool.

That it wasn't like super dialed in or anything.

There were no scales, but they were just slinging like five or six at a time.

Cool.

I remember those days when people used to do that where they'd have like these like hacked together rigs with like dowels and they just a wooden box, put them over and just like go to town.

And it was, you know, you saw it rarely, but when you did see, you're like, oh, interesting.

Because it was.

It was really uncommon at that point.

Yeah, it felt like it was more intentional than a batch brewer.

Because a batch brewer is just machine.

It's button.

And this looks like someone's like doing a thing.

Whereas probably now we all look back at that and go, like, what.

What were we really accomplishing there besides maybe sinking people's confidence in this idea that we all really love.

Still tasted better.

Have you guys ever been to a.

Have you guys ever been to a Phil's Coffee?

Nope.

No.

Maybe one sounds familiar.

So I ran into Phil's Coffee.

I. I don't know how many of them there are, but there was one in Berkeley.

And if you can imagine a bunch of old batch brewer, like the handle things like the loaders, like strung up across the back wall, like eight, nine or ten of them, right.

And they would pour their roasted coffee into these.

And then they had some sort of.

I think they would just pour hot water into the top of them and these would go down into like some sort of a open milk container.

So, like they had poured out the heavy cream or the 2%, and it would go into these.

When it was done brewing, they would shake the whole thing.

And then that was what you got it poured it into, you know, your mug.

It was like some sort of a weird love child between Third Wave Coffee and Dunkin Donuts.

And for whatever reason, it sort of worked back then, but it was definitely not like a single origin where you're tasting your blueberries or whatever.

So this is a lot like Adam just said, like you, it was still better than anything you'd had before that, or at least on par with the best you'd had before that.

Right?

Like, even though it wasn't super intentional, like your experience in St. Louis.

Right.

Adam, like, so real quick, I got a detour here because the first time I ever met John Cannon, so there's another name drop.

He was working or had worked at a place in New Jersey called Rook.

And he was explaining to me there, pour over system and essentially putting a brew basket on a PVC pipe and pouring over that.

It sounded a lot like what you're describing, Aaron.

And I just, like, I remember thinking, like, who is this dude?

Does he know that sounds awful and janky, you know, and I was just at the time getting, like, into it, and that was kind of peak snob for me, where I was just very kind of scoffing and trying to, like, you know, fellow copy professional.

Cool.

Yeah, that sounds very innovative.

Like.

And yeah, all in my head, I'm just like, what is he talking about?

But I've since talked to him about that and he's like, yeah, Rook didn't know what they were doing at all.

You know, we all start somewhere.

So that was before you came to Jobing, you'd had that experience.

Okay.

Because I first came to Joby and like, the first year they'd opened on university, like, it was not long after they'd opened and I had no idea.

Yeah.

Like, had you told me that they'd been there for five or six years, I would have believed you.

Yeah.

But I. I came back to Rochester after that experience.

I wonder if we have anything like that here.

And I did a quick Google search and they were the one and only.

And we did.

Yes.

So I came in trying to remember who my first cup was.

I don't think it was you.

I don't think it was me either.

It may have been Brandon Rizzo.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

I want to say it was Brandon and Jared, possibly.

Oh, that's.

What.

Did they ever work?

I don't know that they.

I feel like they.

I ever knew Rizzo worked there.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

He was a part timer.

I know I worked with Brandon.

I don't remember Jared working with Brandon, but yeah.

Anyway, I could be totally wrong.

That's cool.

That's cool.

I mean, like, neither of those guys is in coffee anymore.

I think so.

Yeah.

So, like.

So like, that's kind of cool that you got to have that experience while they were doing that.

Yeah.

And it was a good experience.

You came back, right?

Like, a few times weekly.

It was my one day off from Duncan and I wanted to do the thing.

Right.

And then.

So that's like, you're just a customer.

How.

What's the transition look like into, like.

Because obviously we work together, you know, and you worked with Aaron and you met Chris.

Like a.

Right.

I feel like I pretty frequently sitting at the bar, mentioned that I was interested.

Cool.

Because pretty tired of my day to day.

Like a little over a year into it.

I mean, earlier than that.

But yeah, after a year, I was actively.

So just anytime you saw Ben on the bar, you're like, this must be such a cool place to work.

Yeah, not exactly like that, but the.

The vibe was probably the same.

Well, it was probably super chill.

And, you know, Brandon Rizzo was just kind of slinging coffee.

It's normally, you know.

And Adam's singing here, putting cold brews together like his life depends on it.

So how long did you work at Joe Bean then?

So you get.

You get started.

Oh, the story of getting hired in the first place, as I like to tell it, was Jim being behind the bar, reaching his giant mitts over the counter, palming me by the head, lifting me up and putting me back down on the other side.

Yep.

Pointing down.

You work here now?

I think that's how it happened.

Okay.

I could be wrong.

Jim would have been hired like right before you too, right.

Not.

It couldn't have been there a little before.

Okay.

Yeah.

See, at that point I only had one child.

Right.

And pretty freshly two.

He was two.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was this little guy.

Yeah.

Had to keep an eye on that one, though.

Wow.

He was active.

No, I remember early on him sitting at the bar going, oh, wow, a lot.

Yeah, that's like my earliest Xander memory.

It's not as 14 year old energy, I gotta say, but nor should it be.

Well, that would be great if it was.

Yeah.

Maybe you'll get it back a little more.

Oh, wow.

Maybe energy.

Not a lot of wow happening.

So what are you guys playing instead?

What's that?

What are you guys playing instead of World of Warcraft?

Instead of.

Wow.

I.

You know, I'm kind of out of the mmorpg.

That's fair game right now.

Although certain final fantasies I'd like to.

We just really left.

Turned on these guys.

I'm not sure.

All in the name of a good dad joke.

Like, you know, I can't resist.

Nice.

So how long did you work at jobing?

Six years.

Through a lot of changes.

Yeah.

Like.

Yeah.

Do you want to talk about any of that time?

Like, what changed and how you changed, like, because you competed and those were like, some of my best memories of were competitions.

That was quite a decision, watching you.

And like literally cheering like I was watching a baseball game.

Oh, geez.

I remember live streaming those.

I remember live streaming those from work.

Nice.

Yeah.

And watching those because, you know, for.

For me, that was like, that was my place.

I was there two or three nights.

Basically every week.

Yeah.

Like almost every Friday.

At least one or two nights during the week and like spending all that time.

But I remember that time when you were prepping for competition.

Like, it was a lot of work.

I remember like, hell, us talking about it, like, it was.

It was a lot.

The first time I did it was totally idiotic.

Okay, hold on.

You did a drink with yogurt?

I did.

I was gonna say it was based on a Lassie.

Lassie.

That's what it's called.

I thought it was brilliant.

And I still to this day, keep going back to, like, how do we integrate the ideas of, like, cuisines and things like that into.

Into, like, coffee and, like, to see more of that is an example in my head.

And, like, I just want to say I have this old recording on my phone of when we went to a competition and I actually competed and you competed, and we were in D.C. that.

Was the third time for me, I think.

Yeah, that was the most fun I had doing it, too.

And I.

On this recording, and maybe we should play it or maybe we should post it sometime.

What it was intended for was when Rory and I were doing channeling, I was going to be like, this is what it's like to compete kind of thing.

You can hear me.

I was disappointed with my own performance.

No, I remember that.

But I was way more unhappy that you didn't get through because you crushed it.

That was an incredible routine.

It seemed like everything was on point.

You said, you know, the shots came out well, and I was like, yeah, it seemed like, Adam, you know, I feel like you.

I saw you get ripped off more than I've ever seen anyone get ripped off at a competition, personally.

So just.

Just throwing that out there.

Adam is an excellent competitor, and it speaks to his skill as a barista and his dedication and.

And, you know, the fact that, like.

Fact that, like, you know, this stuff is weird, but, like, you can.

You can put together some good stuff, and.

Yeah, it's really weird.

You look back on it, you go, this is so strange that we did that.

For anyone listening, barista competition.

Like, it does have merits for honing your skills as a barista.

I'd say that's the primary merit.

Right.

Like, but.

Well, I don't know.

So little of it.

Like, the tech aspects.

Absolutely.

Translate.

Absolutely.

I still use those, but if you're.

Working bar day in, day out, most of that stuff is gonna stick naturally.

Like, it definitely can help call your attention to some things a little more.

Exactly that.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was.

Okay, do I have two specks of ground coffee still sitting in my portafilter before I go to grind?

Like, it can help you with that level of detail.

But as far as this is a perfect transition into your topic.

So thank you.

Yeah.

As far as, like, what it actually is to be a barista.

Keep going.

Little of it, actually.

Competition does not translate into what it means to actually be at all.

Yeah, we're gonna put a pin in that one.

That's.

Okay.

So Joe Bean till.

Till the pandemic.

Till.

Yeah.

So that was right at.

Right at the start of the Blossom Road location, right before lockdown.

I was with them through the entire transition in some capacity or another.

Yeah.

Right until.

Right until they didn't need us anymore.

Right.

Well.

And it was a hard time to, like, stay with a company if you wanted to be a barista that was shedding baristas because it was, like, changing its model and shedding its.

Yeah, yeah.

I, like, I just went in there the other day to buy filters, and there's not, like, a barista at the counter.

There's an espresso machine still.

Right.

Like, you can get a coffee, but it is not a cafe.

Yeah, exactly.

I think that's the best way to describe it.

You can get a coffee, but it's.

You get.

You can get batch, or you can get an espresso, and you can get a cappuccino, and that's really it.

And that's.

They will serve it to you happily, but it is not a path.

Yeah.

And it's very, very much a warehouse.

I mean, you walk in, and they've got wire racks to kind of separate some things and display their coffees, but there's no, like, mat mismatching that.

It's, you know, a production center there.

It's super clean.

You know, if, you know Ben, you know, he wouldn't have anything less.

But you.

You kind of walk around for a second, and someone pops out, and, you know, you're like, I'm gonna have this coffee.

Oh, I had the funniest experience when I went to get filters, because just like you were just saying, I was walking around, and someone popped out, and it was Dina, who, like, clearly knows me.

She says, hey, how's it going?

And I'm like, oh, how are you?

And just doing, like, a very standard, like, small talk, like, greeting any guest.

And I'm like, oh, my gosh.

She doesn't realize it's me or doesn't recognize me.

I didn't look in any way all that different.

I'm just.

We're going through the whole transaction.

It's like, after I've, like, scanned my card, she looks up, she goes, oh, my God.

Wait.

I was just like, he's like, oh, I mean, like, I don't.

I don't have to disrupt your day like that.

Like, that's fine.

But, yeah, you know, so they're.

They're very much in the zone.

It's not your typical, like, you know, they've moved into interaction when you go.

In there, for sure.

Well, they've moved into.

What would you call it, you know, wholesale.

You know, they moved away from the cafe completely.

So, yeah, they have a really cool education push going on right now, too.

Like, which I. I think everyone should check out.

That looks.

It looks super cool.

Yeah.

So we'll be doing more advertising for that all over Lunchador because Joe Bean is one of the sponsors of Lunchador.

So thanks to Kathy and the whole team over at Jobing Roasters, Jobing Roasters.com.

You can go get your subscription.

So thank you to them.

Yeah.

And that's.

That transition was.

Was weird for, I think, a lot of.

I mean, for you obviously, working there, for those of us who are regulars, there was a big transition.

And, like, that was also during, like, during all the lockdowns.

What did.

During that time?

2020, 21 Would have been like three or four, maybe even five different things.

Yeah.

Rococo, I think, was the first one, which Wade, you facilitated.

Yep.

You passed my contact to Omar, and that was the first job offer I got out of.

They built an elite crew.

And you.

You all just had the worst situation at that time.

Painfully aware, just crazy timing.

Like, in a space where people weren't downtown.

Exactly.

And we were an orphanage for.

For baristas that needed somewhere to go.

Service workers, too.

Yeah.

In general.

And I reached out to everyone I knew that was displaced, and we built.

A little team, and it was incredible.

It was.

It was an incredible, like, I think about that team and I'm like, in any other situation, you would have almost instantly become known as, like, the best crew in town.

But it was.

It was brutal.

They shouldn't have opened when they did.

Became known for so many different things.

The Cronut, that's like our thing.

Oh, I forgot about that.

Yeah.

The Cronut still exists.

You can still get them from Amazing grains.

They're still great.

Cool.

Yeah.

But I've.

I've heard and seen a lot of different shifts in the coffee program over there.

I have no idea what it is right now.

It's interesting.

I, like, shout out to Billy and Marvin.

Holding it down over there.

I over there, love them.

They're my bros. And are they still using Aporia or.

No, Joe Bean right turns.

There's a lot of plot there that we don't have together on Joe Bean now.

Yeah.

And full circle.

Yeah, they're.

I mean they.

As soon as Billy and Marvin kind of took it over, things improved pretty dramatically.

But it's, it's hard.

Like they are still pushing up against the ceiling of like there's not traffic down there.

Yeah.

And it's like we see it am, fm.

If it's a cold rainy day, you might as well close like, like it's, it's completely reliant on foot traffic that does not exist if weather does not permit.

It's.

It's really interesting down there.

Yeah.

I mean like my friend Yunzer's got a space down there.

Yes.

They love it by the way.

He's.

I mean he's just the best.

And he like that's such a huge improvement of a location from where he was.

Oh no doubt.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

But like that's the fact that that space is such a huge improvement actually.

Eat Local New York just did a quick pop for him on, on Instagram and Tick Tock.

Which that's great.

Like great for him because he's doing such amazing work.

I just, I just want more people to go visit in there because there's a lot of good stuff.

I mean you know the whole team from, you know, the extended.

The extended Aveeno world that's there doing really good work, really well.

You know Yoong are doing great work at Seasons.

You know the team over, over at Rococo.

It's.

I want more people to go and check that out and then check out the spaces out of the commissary that are, you know, doing little pop ups as well.

It's great for everybody if people go visit there.

But like now is way better than what it was.

And it was really like even though I tried to go.

It's, you know, logistically if you're not downtown, you don't want to go in there for that.

Yeah.

And especially parking situations and everything else.

And especially trying to navigate it with multiple children.

Remembering the bathroom situation being really bizarre when I was there at least.

Yes.

I don't know if anything's changed.

No, no.

You would have thought that they would have gotten like a lot of lunch business from all the businesses.

You know, you don't have to go get in your car to go anywhere else now.

You know you've got a ton of wonderful high end restaurants in there.

You've got Rocco, you Know, so you.

It's.

It's kind of interesting to me that it never took off like that.

The upper.

So I haven't been in a really long time have the upper floors filled in with the businesses that we're supposed to fill in.

Okay.

And there's still some work being done.

And in any time there's work being done that's really frustrating.

And I, I mean not like look it, this is not about Rococo.

This is about Mercantile on Main and the way they planned the project and the way they executed it and all.

The clear on that.

But no, no, I want to tell that like someone came into amf.

I happen to be covering a shift on Monday which I never do.

And this guy comes in and he's like yeah, I stopped over there.

But like I didn't want to like sit there.

It felt like way too, you know, open and there was all this noise and I'm like okay.

Like they really need to.

They really have something because it is like it's an instant draw.

He's like I was headed somewhere else.

Person I was meeting canceled.

I looked for coffee.

Rococo came up first.

They have good social media.

They have like the.

What is my favorite building downtown?

The.

The city.

I've always loved that building.

And like they have all these advantages and just the way they're doing it is.

Is really killing some of those like high potential businesses.

Ken, briefly we.

We lured in Elton Brown.

Alright.

I forgot my mind.

Like it is mind blowing.

That was while I was.

That was during like 21 I think.

Right?

That was.

Was it 20.

It was 21.

We opened in.

They opened in 21.

Yeah.

Because that was just as things were starting to crack.

Y. Wow.

Wow.

I was not expecting it at all.

That is.

So yeah.

Came in with his wife and dogs.

Super high potential and yeah, I mean I hope they find their legs.

I hope they get a handle on that.

Billy who's running Rococo, you know his.

His wife does other events and social media now for the Mercantile and we'll.

Sorry, it's just doing a great job and, and hopefully like she, she converted you know the.

What used to be the behind the Glass gallery to the Clock Tower gallery and is like you know, trying to.

Trying to make it more just a little bit livelier and yeah, there's, there's.

There's a lot of.

There's so much potential.

It's a space I've always felt had a lot of opportunity.

I remember when we were at High Tech Rochester on the second floor and Then Next core at the top floor.

For one of the startups I was part of, we always walked through the empty area there and always felt about the potential.

But in the end, it needs to be a complete thought for everybody, not just the people running each of these places with passion and all that stuff.

It needs to be a concerted effort from all around.

And I only hope the best because, like, I have plenty of friends that run places there and it is, it's important to me that they're successful and it's important for me that that building is successful.

I think it's a great thing for downtown to have a vibrant mercantile, to have a vibrant Sibley building.

Absolutely.

And that makes Parcel five more vibrant.

It makes all the businesses around there more vibrant.

It's a really good thing for everybody.

Yeah.

And that's, it's, it's, it's a tough situation for all of them.

There's no doubt.

So after Rokoko, after Rococo, but also simultaneously, I went from zero jobs and making zero money to having three in the time span of like two weeks.

Okay, what were those?

I worked at Rock Brewing for a minute while it was part of FLX hospitality.

They had brought in another high potential kind of opportunity that didn't quite work out.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, we, if, if people want to hear the whole story.

By the way, Chris Pinelli went on Polygon show about a year and a half ago.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah.

Like a really good episode.

Did like a full like hour and a half.

That is a good episode.

Talking about that.

And it was really, it was a really good episode.

Yeah.

Really.

It's worth, worth a listen if you want to go back and learn about that whole situation.

I can imagine it feels a little different from the inside than it, than it probably than the way Chris tells.

It, but it's possible.

I was only there for two and a half to three months.

Okay.

But I had a lot of fun working there.

I, I loved it while it was going on.

So what was the third job?

There was Rococo, FLX and the Sheffield, right?

Oh, yeah, that's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How did, how did that go?

I learned a lot working there.

Oh, cool.

Like, that was my first real table serving job.

Okay.

Yeah.

Which transitioned him to my first, like, higher volume bartending job.

Cool.

And learned a lot about spirits, a lot about beer, although I already had a solid base there.

Sure.

And a lot about people.

So we need to, we need to hit a break soon.

Sure.

So after the three jobs, then you End up like.

Like, because you left Rococo and you were out of coffee for a minute.

Right.

I was out of coffee for at least three, four years.

Three, four years out of coffee.

How was that?

I want to say it was about three.

Yeah.

There are a lot of different things I could talk about, like value proposition.

Yeah.

And the value I felt people placed on the different products for various reasons.

Sorry if this is getting a little too deep, but.

No, this is perfect.

It's become apparent to me that people value escape more than they value presence.

Oh, geez.

Wow.

No, no, that's a tremendous transition.

That is.

That is our.

More after we get back.

Right.

So the first reel we release that's people value escape more than they value presence.

And that's just what I see in terms of this is millennial hospitality is.

What we're doing here.

So leaving my income up to the consumer purchasing products from me.

Yeah.

It visibly appeared that alcohol is worth way more to people than coffee.

So how do you get back into coffee?

And then we're gonna hit the break.

There was one other jump I made beyond Sheffield.

I moved over to Turnidos Inside the Inn on Broadway.

Yep.

Okay.

Bartending and serving in the steakhouse and did some event bartending for weddings and stuff.

Just some of the most fun I've had bartending.

Fantastic.

Yes.

Some good experiences on that front, but also a whole different world I did not know existed and maybe didn't want to know existed.

We'll leave that at that.

Sure.

And then back to.

And then.

And then I was looking for a little more stability.

Went in to Ugly Duck on a particularly defeating day at the office over there and casually asked Mary what, like, average tip income was, and it was enough to feel like I could make the jump.

Very cool.

And you just did the same thing you did at Joe Bean.

Right.

Where you're like, this just seems like such a great place.

No, I'm kidding.

It was probably a little more formal than that.

Yeah.

I don't want to go into, like, too much detail about anything.

I don't want to go into too much negativity.

Sure.

By which I don't want to go to any.

But it.

It has been a sanctuary for me.

Fantastic.

So that's 30 minutes in.

First Ugly Duck mentioned.

That's a record for us.

That's pretty easily a record for us.

35 Minutes.

Yeah, no doubt.

So we're going to take a quick break, and we'll come back and we'll just talk more about being a barista and escape and presence.

Love it.

And we'll be right back.

All right, we're back from break and we were noodling around with the philosophical depths of Adam Solomon, making statements.

I am.

It's not that deep.

I think.

No, I think it was.

It wasn't.

Wasn't.

Right.

So it was.

I think it was.

It was an honest truth about how value is perceived in the world of hospitality.

Since you haven't been like constant barista all the time, you've had the opportunity to, you know, be serving food, serving alcohol, you know, table service, banquets, all these different things.

And what we were talking about in the break is that, you know, people value coffee to a point where.

But the frequency in which they have coffee is time dependent.

Usually it's early, it's maybe daily, but it's not 8 noon, 3, 6, and it's not 8, 8, 30, 8, 45, 9 o', clock, where they're buying multiple large beverages from the same place.

And that's.

It's one of those fundamental things that they might value coffee, but the frequency is only what it can be.

For some people.

For some people.

For the normies, that attitude.

But.

And it's.

It's not an easy situation because that's something that, you know, bars and cocktail restaurants and these kind of things depend on.

You sit down for a meal, you might have two or three and not one coffee, or if you're lucky, two.

Yeah.

And I don't mean to make these statements to be like blanket truths, but these are just larger scale trends I've seen from serving many, many, many people in many, many, many different settings.

Yeah.

Like, I've been everywhere from quick service to the most expensive fine dining in the city.

So.

And how often have you ever had to cut someone off with coffee where.

As opposed to libations?

Never.

Right.

But also, I'm under no legal obligation to do so coffee, which is another whole.

Another whole thing.

Like, I'm not saying not to value alcohol and the responsibilities that come with serving it responsibly.

Yeah, absolutely.

But.

So is it fair to say you've made a career and want to continue to make a career as a barista?

How are we defining career?

How do you.

I mean, I think that's gonna say.

I could define it.

No, that's when you go guidance counselor here.

Like, I mean, is it fair to say that I personally have.

Sure.

Like, I'm gonna say I've made a career out of hospitality.

Right.

Yeah.

It doesn't necessarily have to stay in coffee, although it's kind of where I feel like I've become most comfortable.

Right.

And you have maybe the most like industry relevant industry pertinent experience too.

Like we were talking about like with competitions and trainings you've done and things like that.

Definitely.

Although I would, I would almost argue that some of the like quick service and second wave experiences I've had have been as valuable if not more than some of the third wave training I've had.

So what, what part of reason.

Yeah, yeah, what, what part of that is it the, you know, rapidity of service is it that, you know, just the reps?

Some of it is reps and efficiency.

But the biggest part I would say is managing expectations.

Explains what that entails because that is.

We've talked a lot about things like that recently.

When it comes to what is an experience at a coffee shop, it's weird noodling around it.

And in our preview to this, you know, hopefully series of talking with different baristas is what is the experience with coffee?

What is service like?

How do you define that in that context?

I've never.

It's the facet of hospitality where I can earnestly say that the experience depends on the guest more than anything.

You can come into a cafe for such a wide variety of experiences and it is the barista's duty to within the first five to 10 seconds of a guest walking in the door, identify what the guest has come in for.

Are they there for the coffee itself?

Are they there for like a third space where they need a space to come just exist and hang out with other people?

Are they there for functionality to get work done?

There are so many different reasons people walk into a cafe.

Are they there for escape or presence?

Yep, that's exactly what it was.

Yeah.

Or both.

Like it's generally more presence for whatever they need to be present for.

And there are so many different things.

Yeah.

That's incredible.

I mean what an ask.

Like we have talked about the emotional of being.

Wait, did you.

That's such an incredible summary because I think most people do not think about reading people in general, let alone strangers within the first five to 10 seconds of an interaction.

I mean speed reading, like is speed reading a person is really intricate and it is the kind of thing that requires raps.

Right.

When you're talking about being great at it.

One requires emotional acuity, requires, you know, reading another person's body language also you get to know them because of your repetition that you see many of the people.

Yeah, definitely.

So remembering people, that's memory.

It's reading their mood at the moment.

It's knowing what you're serving.

It's all of the things all coming into within five to 10 seconds.

Changing how you're talking to a person with all of your experience and knowledge.

And that five to ten seconds is the difference between somebody feeling like this was a great experience and not sometimes.

And sometimes that's not really being present for them at all.

Because maybe they don't want to interact to the end.

Right.

Yeah.

They just want that.

They're not capable of speech yet.

They need the thing to get them there.

You provide, they walk away.

They come back the next hour.

Sometimes even, sure, yeah, re up and that's it.

Still the next day.

And sometimes keep coming back day in, day out.

So that's what they need.

And that relationship might be as simple as medium black coffee.

See you tomorrow morning.

Precisely.

Less.

Less than eight words.

Yeah.

So sometimes it's zero words.

Yeah, yeah, come in.

I know what the guy wants.

I put his coffee with exactly the right amount of room on it on the counter.

He grabs it, says thank you, and walks out.

And then you find out you were the most important relationship he had.

Right.

Unique support is needed to make being a barista a more viable career or a more viable job.

I mean, there's the obvious, which feel free to call it out.

But also like the obvious being wage.

Yeah, yeah, definitely wage.

Baseline.

Yeah.

And I feel really lucky to be at somewhere that I at least think is starting wages a little higher than most.

Being an industry that relies heavily on tips.

It's really weird because I'm in a situation where, at least within the coffee industry, I've never felt more cared for than where I'm at now.

But there's still so many, like, little pieces missing, like getting paid to not show up to work from time to time.

Like, yes, we have sick pay as a thing now.

Yeah.

As a result.

As a result of the pandemic.

And I feel like we'd probably still have it even without where we're at now.

But just having time to recover from the physical labor we do day in, day out, the emotional labor we do day in, day out, it takes recharge time.

And that's a thing that someone like me does.

Does not get.

Yeah.

What do you.

You know, we've talked about this loosely.

To escape.

Yeah.

Or I'm able to test with what you said with that it's.

Or being able to.

It's not just escape, it's batteries.

Yeah.

Batteries need to recharge.

Definitely being Able to afford time off is, you know, for somebody who works in a, you know, non industry day job, like that's part of our.

Part of the expectation is, you know, that you have some of those things, you have some of those opportunities and it's.

You take it for granted until you have some of those conversations.

Right.

Because it's not.

I don't even think it's something most people think about.

Yeah.

Oh, no.

I mean that's what burnout is like.

Most people who are doing what you're doing or most people in general.

No, absolutely not.

People doing what I'm doing or thinking about this constantly, I would expect people, people patronizing the shops on the large part still ask questions like, oh, how was your weekend?

And I'm like, I was here.

Yeah.

The busiest days of the week hold up.

The week has an end.

Yeah.

Not just an unending cycle,.

Just like little things like that where it's like a bit of blindness coming from one side.

Yeah.

Adam.

Adam.

No, that's just the kind of support that baristas need.

Like, you nailed it.

I'm really curious, like,.

How do we get the support on the other end.

Yeah.

From business.

I don't know.

I don't know where it comes from.

I think this could.

I think this is not just a problem limited to coffee by any stretch.

It's hospitality industry on a whole.

Yeah.

And it goes all the way back to like supply chain people growing the products we are serving.

It's almost like colonialism comes home in the form of what we're doing as coffee professionals.

Aaron, what were you going to say?

You know, we've heard a time and time again that, you know, second ugly duck mention or maybe 15th, who knows at this point.

I know, right?

Is it is a good place to work.

And you mentioned you've never felt more taken care of.

And I would love to know more about what that experience is like in terms of that.

And just it's things that other people aren't getting in other places.

Right.

What level of detail are we looking for here?

I mean, whatever.

Yeah.

I mean wage is a big one.

And just from both management and ownership, just a constant reiteration of like, let us know if there's anything we can do to help.

Like, no one is blind to the labor that goes into what we do.

Everyone knows what it takes.

Like everyone in management and ownership has spent time and continues to spend time on the bar.

So there's a level there that I just like haven't quite felt anywhere else.

I've worked.

You feel like they understand you and you feel like they understand you and they value what you do and know, you know, the hard things.

Right.

And so if you're struggling, it seems like you could say something and you'd have that support for whatever it is.

Precisely.

And,.

Yeah, I don't know how much more detail I can really go into, but just feels good.

Well, I can definitely say as someone who has been in the Ugly Duck orbit for as long as it has existed, I even, even as recently as.

Let's see, this conversation probably happened in February, I had a conversation with Rory.

Sit down.

Where it was.

It was all about.

And I don't work for him.

The record.

Like, I, you know, we, we were a vendor, but I felt so uniquely seen and heard and supported, you know, and it was a really emotional experience for me to be talking to him and, and have that happen in, in that context and in a context in which, like, you know, we were being dropped as a vendor.

And it was, it was.

I think it's emblematic.

It's.

It's.

It's emblematic of what he seeks to achieve as a business owner, of what he believes about coffee, hospitality, service.

All of it kind of rolled into one that, like, even in a super difficult context and conversation, I, I was very supported and just working in that environment, I think.

Yeah, it's.

It's probably truly unique among, among service jobs, among hospitality job, coffee jobs specifically.

So I can echo a lot of what you're saying just from, from my experience with that company, too.

So when you're thinking about, you know, you know, how, how old are you now, Adam?

I know, I know you're younger than.

Me, but older than I look.

I'm going to say, welcome to your 20s, Adam.

That's fortunate.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When you're thinking about.

When you're thinking about, you know, not like the, not like I'm interviewing you from, like, where do you see yourself in five years?

What's your plan?

But do you plan.

You're funny.

You see.

Do you see hospitality as hospitality and specifically coffee being something that you see likely as something you're gonna be doing for a while?

As something I would like to be doing?

Absolutely.

Will my body hold?

Probably not.

Yeah.

So I, I don't know.

Hospitality is certainly all I really know in terms of how to bring home an income, but there will absolutely come a point where, where my body won't be able to take it.

Like, just daily repetition.

I don't know what's going on in my Hand in my arm.

But I've been doing this for so long that there's some potentially serious issues building up.

Do you see yourself transitioning into the opposite side to hopefully provide that level of care for other people in hospitality, going into management side of things with your experience?

Never again.

No.

No.

What was the.

I.

Let's go way back.

I was in management at Dunkin Donuts.

I was bar manager at Jobing.

As a manager at Rococo, it's not my forte.

The way I like to put it is I can barely manage myself.

Why am I managing other people?

And even including.

I'd realized it before Rococo, and when that opportunity came up, I think Omar would be the first one to tell you that.

I told him it was that I'm not be good fit for that role.

But if he's still offering it to me despite that, that I had to take it because I had nothing.

Yeah, that's understandable.

But no, I should not be in that position again.

I am too much the peacekeeper.

I do not do well in conflict because I want to make everyone happy, which does not resolve most conflicts.

It's.

It's not my position.

Yeah.

It's important to know that.

Hard.

Agree.

I think that's the long lesson I.

Had to learn and a hard lesson to learn.

And I think, you know, knowing.

Knowing what your skill set really is.

And I don't say that like, oh, they don't have the skill set to do this.

No, it's like knowing.

Knowing where you are most valuable, but also like, this is what you're.

You're really honing in your thing by doing it and knowing yourself and knowing what you can offer and your experience, really knowing that is so valuable to having satisfaction in what you're doing.

But that's also a challenge because it is inherently has physicality to it.

In the food and drink side, there's hard.

It's hard to escape the physicality of the industry, which means on your feet doing repetitive motions, both in coffee and bartending and other things.

It's also a harsh reality of the existence of doing these jobs on a daily basis.

I. I have like four questions I want to hit, so I'm gonna hit one and see where it goes.

All right, go for it.

You're only hitting one.

We're.

Yeah.

If we.

If we're going way over on time, we'll hit our last question, which we.

We absolutely have to ask Adam, which I forgot to add document I sent you.

Is this about Pokemon?

You know what I can't believe we didn't hit that yet.

Episode about coffee and Pokemon.

Because, man.

Okay, so in your opinion, how important is the skill of making coffee for aspiring baristas?

Relax.

Moderately important.

Is it.

Is it the most important thing?

Absolutely not.

But I will contend over and over again that the managing expectation, meeting people where they're at is the most important part of what we do.

Do you still need to know how to make coffee?

Well, of course.

Because that is.

I guess it depends on where you work.

Yeah.

And what your clientele is looking for.

But if someone comes in looking for a cup of coffee.

But even that is to be able to match that.

The more important skill.

Understanding your context is the more important skill than knowing how to make a good.

Yes.

There.

There are like a lot of what we do is already done by a machine.

Like our.

Our drip coffee.

Someone else did the work to figure out the ratio of the recipe.

All of the science.

But probably Johnny Chemnitz.

Yeah.

There was someone before him that figured out the optimal ratio.

Right.

Probably was Johnny that dialed it in.

I don't know.

I. I don't know who set our ratio.

Yeah.

I really don't.

I miss Johnny.

If you're listening, I talk to Johnny.

I love you.

I miss you.

I talk to Johnny.

Everybody day.

He doesn't miss me nearly as much as I miss him.

And that's okay.

But we could have him call in.

From la, please make sure I'm here for that one.

But we've got the machines to do a lot of that for us.

Like, especially with tools like the puck press.

100% Take camping out of the equation.

Which, my God, that probably has saved me an additional five years in this industry.

Yeah.

Added life.

Thank you, Pugpress your career.

Yeah.

Thank you, Rory, for purchasing a Puck Press.

But we.

We have all of these tools for consistency.

Do you need someone to put those tools into place?

Absolutely.

But as far as a barista entering.

Get a basic understanding and you're probably good to go.

That's awesome.

What do you want to share your worst hospitality story?

Like a time when a guest just refused to be welcomed into a coffee space.

I would.

I would keep this one to coffee because I imagine at bars it's a total.

It's a degree of magnitude worse.

But.

Oh, God,.

I'm so sorry for all that I've done to you, Adam.

Chris is the idea.

It's so funny.

He knows exactly what threads to pull on.

It's perfect.

Every time.

You do it again in a heartbeat.

And you know It's, Yeah, I would, I don't know.

Or just one that stands out.

My most memorable ones weren't.

Weren't the coffee ones?

Okay.

I, I, I would imagine that's true.

I would imagine the worst ones are all alcohol related, but.

Yeah, like, or, or food related even.

But are, are there ones?

Sure.

Do I give them many moments of thought beyond.

Probably not.

Yeah.

No.

I just.

If one stood out and that's understandable.

There probably were.

No.

Working at Jobine was a whole exercise in managing expectations.

And having to approach those interactions in a certain way was probably very difficult.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And do we have people coming in?

All right.

No, no, no.

There is one that stands out.

Yes.

We found one.

Yes.

I'm so happy.

There was this guy who came in and would always very specifically touch on whether or not we could pull an odd number of shots because we had bottomless portafilters that couldn't split.

And he wanted a triple shot.

And that was a sticking point.

Like he would.

It was before that it was like the amount of foam in a dry cappuccino.

And because of, oh, the dry cappuccino,.

The way we were taught to steam milk there, the dry cappuccino didn't exist.

So I literally.

This person ordering a dry cappuccino was my first time hearing the term because it wasn't something I encountered at.

Very cool.

At Duncan because I didn't need to because our cappuccinos by nature were pretty dry.

Dry.

So I'd never heard the term.

And he got frustrated that I was asking the questions, trying to figure out what he wanted.

Like I was doing the thing that I was trained to do.

Figure out where you're coming from and trying to meet you where you're at.

But I, it was a lack of education on my part.

Wow.

I don't.

That, that was not what I expected.

But that is transition from second to third wave.

Actually trying to empathize with someone.

Like, that's apparently not what they want.

They just want, you know, a robot who they want assumes understanding they wanted.

The thing they wanted.

And I can't fault anyone for that.

Right.

But they, they didn't want you to find out what they wanted.

They wanted, assumed shared understanding.

In the dry cappuccino situation.

Yes.

In the triple shot situation, there was.

Yeah.

But like, what is that?

Why do you come back?

I, I don't know.

That's a, it's, it's fascinating to me.

That's the stuff that dumbfounds me is.

Right when you can't do it, don't come back for it.

It felt.

The second time, felt like they were in.

In the mood to be.

I was gonna say combative.

It's like a control issue.

Right.

They feel powerful in that space, and that's where they can wield that power.

Hey, timber.

Entirely.

See it that way.

And I mean, a lot of.

Well, you're very understanding.

Is.