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Conversation with Martin Mouritzen of Podfriend
Episode 11 • 5th June 2023 • Tea Party Media • Martin Lindeskog
00:00:00 01:29:04

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Conversation with Martin Mouritzen of Podfriend. We talk about app development, the Podcasting 2.0 initiative, value for value, Live Item Tag, etc.

Call-to-Action: After you have listened to this episode, add your $0.02 (two cents) to the conversation, by joining (for free) Tea Party Media Town Hall. Feel free to introduce yourself to the other members, discuss the different episodes, give me constructive feedback, or check out the virtual room, Speakers' Corner, and step up on the digital soapbox. Welcome to our new place in cyberspace!

Show notes with links to articles, blog posts, products and services:

Episode 11 (89 minutes) was live recorded at 7 PM Central European Time, on May 22, 2023, by podcaster, Martin Lindeskog, with Boomcaster. Martin did the editing, post-production, and transcript with the podcast maker, Alitu. Notes to self written on Mod 1927 notecards. Bumper and jingle by Jim Jonsson, JTunes Productions. 

Easy listen to Tea Party Media podcast in your podcast (podcatcher) app of choice, e.g., Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Stitcher, or one of the new podcast apps, on Podcast Index, supporting the Podcasting 2.0 initiative, and Value for Value by streaming Satoshis (Bitcoin payments). 

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This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

Transcripts

Martin Lindeskog:

Welcome to Tea Party media episode Eleven My name is Martin Lindeskoge.

Martin Lindeskog:

Hi Martin.

Martin Lindeskog:

Or numbness you say in Swedish.

Martin Mouritzen:

Hi Martin.

Martin Lindeskog:

Nice to be same name.

Martin Lindeskog:

The the warrior as you say.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's the original name of Martin nice.

Martin Mouritzen:

I didn't know that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it's how do you pronounce your last name?

Martin Lindeskog:

Morrison.

Martin Mouritzen:

In Danish I would say Mowitzen.

Martin Mouritzen:

And in English I'd say Morrison.

Martin Lindeskog:

Morrison.

Martin Lindeskog:

I had a friend in New York called Maurice

Martin Lindeskog:

Markowitz and that's similar name.

Martin Lindeskog:

So we are here today talking about your new

Martin Lindeskog:

version.

Martin Lindeskog:

We could say pod friend.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I also often start out with some in a way to icebreak but also to get the party going.

Martin Lindeskog:

I have my tea here from China, like black tea that have aroma with mineral tones and a bit

Martin Lindeskog:

not smokiness but it's a character.

Martin Lindeskog:

But still it's very good daily tea that you

Martin Lindeskog:

could use but I bought at a tea shop in Gottenburg.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I will ask you about what's your favorite beverage.

Martin Lindeskog:

Is it tea or is it some other beverage?

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's not tea.

Martin Mouritzen:

I don't really like tea.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, unfortunately not yet.

Martin Mouritzen:

Not yet.

Martin Mouritzen:

My wife drinks a lot of tea sometimes.

Martin Mouritzen:

Good period.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, it comes in periods I actually drink.

Martin Mouritzen:

In Danish it's called soft event.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's like where you mix like.

Martin Lindeskog:

One part juice and then concentrated juice or soft.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then you add water like five times water

Martin Mouritzen:

or something and then I drink that a lot.

Martin Mouritzen:

I have filled up my water bottle for this

Martin Mouritzen:

session and then I also always drink coffee so that's like you.

Martin Lindeskog:

Could have like lingon berry or tran berries or whatever and then fill it

Martin Lindeskog:

up so that's good and coffee.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I would say that directly if you want to

Martin Lindeskog:

say your location.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I been to a very nice tea place in

Martin Lindeskog:

Copenhagen now, I don't remember the name but it was an old style tea shop but also a

Martin Lindeskog:

lounge, a tea lounge and it was central in Copenhagen and I really enjoyed that.

Martin Lindeskog:

It made my day when I was sitting there and I got a teapot and good quality I think I had

Martin Lindeskog:

from India Tea and enjoyed it tremendously.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's a nice that you have and you have

Martin Lindeskog:

talking about drinks.

Martin Lindeskog:

We will talk about that also party 1 bar

Martin Lindeskog:

called Hotel Central Bar or Hotel Central or something like that in Copenhagen that I got

Martin Lindeskog:

the tip from because they had a corporation in Gottenburg, they had this called in Latin the

Martin Lindeskog:

name is like spoon not coffee, but it's like a hotel boutique chain.

Martin Lindeskog:

And they had one connection there in Copenhagen and very close there.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I went through the bus, this flex box bus and very central, so I knew how to find my

Martin Lindeskog:

way.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I have seen a list there and they were one

Martin Lindeskog:

of the top list in the world, I think even the best bar.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it was like designed and interior like British style, English style with mahogany

Martin Lindeskog:

this furniture, the leather furniture and this bar that looked very cozy and nice and classy

Martin Lindeskog:

and there I had a very nice drink.

Martin Lindeskog:

Today is like I was talking about this because

Martin Lindeskog:

soon I will launch my so called lost site called Tea Party media and Tea is my favorite

Martin Lindeskog:

beverage.

Martin Lindeskog:

And Party is to having fun.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it could also be the historical thing what's happening Boston Tea Party in 73 and on

Martin Lindeskog:

December 16.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then also media is the domain where

Martin Lindeskog:

talking about new media.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's why I want to have this repetit and

Martin Lindeskog:

having repetition so you will remember it and it's also to think, focus what you are doing

Martin Lindeskog:

good life with tea, for example and to have fun, have party and also drink tea.

Martin Lindeskog:

And today it's what to say.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's the song that I will include in the show

Martin Lindeskog:

notes called Bitcoin Pizza Day because it's May 22 and on that day around ten years ago,

Martin Lindeskog:

right? Yeah, it was a guy who wanted to buy some

Martin Lindeskog:

pizza slices or big pizzas, a couple of them I think for was it 10,000 Satosh bitcoins?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, 10,000 bitcoins worth I think $41 or something.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, but nowadays it will be a.

Martin Mouritzen:

Bit more, a little bit more.

Martin Lindeskog:

So they celebrate that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And an artist called Sean Smith Solo, I have

Martin Lindeskog:

interviewed him and he created this song called this Bitcoin Pizza Day.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I will include that in show notes.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's very upbeat song and we talk about

Martin Lindeskog:

blockchain and bitcoin and how we should in a light way and I really like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's nice to celebrate that a few days before my birthday on May 25.

Martin Lindeskog:

So what's your party drink then, if you have a party?

Martin Mouritzen:

My party drink? Well, it used to be Mojito, but I think these

Martin Mouritzen:

days it's just a nice good beer, like a lager or something.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I enjoy craft beers.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, me too.

Martin Lindeskog:

When when you come to Gottenburg, I will tell

Martin Lindeskog:

you about a place called Free.

Martin Lindeskog:

Small rooms that have very good microbros and

Martin Lindeskog:

you are not allowed to we have that expression in Swedish, I don't know how you say it in

Martin Lindeskog:

English but you're not allowed to buy a so called big strong beer.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's an expression for the general beer.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's a strong alcohol halt often it's back

Martin Lindeskog:

in the day it was Prips and Prips is now belonging to Vidani.

Martin Lindeskog:

Isn't that Danish colespario I think they own.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, that sounds true.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you have this other Big heineken probably the best beer in the

Martin Lindeskog:

world is Vermonto and I'm all for it, but it's like 90% of all beers out there is this

Martin Lindeskog:

regular beer and all kind of other microbrewers with some special taste are very

Martin Lindeskog:

small, but it's increasing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's good to hear that you like that kind

Martin Lindeskog:

of thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

I like my favorite is Margherita.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's a bit sour and sweet it's like tequila and then quantro with liqueur, citrus liquor

Martin Lindeskog:

and then lime juice.

Martin Mouritzen:

So you need Tequila media as well.

Martin Lindeskog:

What is it?

Martin Mouritzen:

You need? Tequila Party media as well.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, that too.

Martin Lindeskog:

That could be harsh.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then the third thing in this domain name, tea Party media.

Martin Lindeskog:

What's your favorite social media? Or where do you hang out?

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh, that's a great question.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's actually mastodon.

Martin Mouritzen:

I hang out on podcast, index, social.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, I also have a Twitter account, but

Martin Mouritzen:

sometimes I forget to check it.

Martin Mouritzen:

I also have Facebook that I use just for

Martin Mouritzen:

private stuff, but I can just see like ten years ago I would check Facebook every hour.

Martin Mouritzen:

Now I will check Facebook.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like if I get a notification that my wife

Martin Mouritzen:

wrote me, I hardly check it anymore.

Martin Mouritzen:

Continue.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I use instagram for reels.

Martin Mouritzen:

I have a coworker and my wife, we send reels

Martin Mouritzen:

to each other and yeah, I think that's it.

Martin Mouritzen:

But where I get most of my daily entertainment

Martin Mouritzen:

is actually podcast index or social.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then actually I also use Reddit, but

Martin Mouritzen:

that's more for like if I need something specific, like some information, then I'll go

Martin Mouritzen:

into a subreddit on that topic and then that was good that.

Martin Lindeskog:

You mentioned Facebook because now I will try to change the settings.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's in private, but where's the meter? So I will see if I could manage to do that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Otherwise it has to be where do I do that then?

Martin Lindeskog:

I don't know why it's doing?

Martin Mouritzen:

Good question.

Martin Mouritzen:

I'm not sure I can help you.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think this is my first live show ever.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, actually I was once on the Podcasting 2.0

Martin Mouritzen:

show, but that was when it was not live.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that was an hour or so delayed.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it should be somewhere that you could put the settings.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's typical now when you try to do multitasking at the same time, thera where is

Martin Lindeskog:

it? Are the ceilings?

Martin Lindeskog:

This is very good.

Martin Lindeskog:

Podcasting.

Martin Mouritzen:

Running very much with scissors.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yes. So private sets, secretes private.

Martin Lindeskog:

How do I change that? I can't change it.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's fun.

Martin Lindeskog:

Okay, you're missing out in Facebook.

Martin Lindeskog:

I managed to do it last time, but this is funny.

Martin Lindeskog:

So we are running live on Facebook, but nobody else by myself will see it but on YouTube and

Martin Lindeskog:

on what more YouTube and LinkedIn.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it's more like a test and we'll come more

Martin Lindeskog:

about live also in the near future.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's interesting that you said mastodon

Martin Lindeskog:

because I'm now getting it, but I must say, at the first time I saw it, I was thinking and

Martin Lindeskog:

that's leading into how you create an app.

Martin Lindeskog:

For example, for me it was like Master on.

Martin Lindeskog:

It looks very 1990s or something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

I didn't get it.

Martin Lindeskog:

It was this dark background.

Martin Lindeskog:

The good thing is it's no algorithm, it's no

Martin Lindeskog:

stressing things.

Martin Lindeskog:

But on the other hand, it was like, what's

Martin Lindeskog:

this? I don't get it.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it took me a long time, but it was good that I did it because I didn't rush into it.

Martin Mouritzen:

But did you know that you can download?

Martin Mouritzen:

There's a lot of different clients from Amazon, some good, some not so good.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's why I'm waiting for the good reviews and so on, because I

Martin Lindeskog:

don't want to rush into it.

Martin Lindeskog:

I have so many apps otherwise, especially

Martin Lindeskog:

Podcasting 2.0 apps that I want to test, but I hear that it will come.

Martin Lindeskog:

Apps that are more similar to my Twitter or whatever that you're used to.

Martin Lindeskog:

But in a way I like to log in.

Martin Lindeskog:

And at one time I had to log in almost every

Martin Lindeskog:

day.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then if you have like hundred or whatnot,

Martin Lindeskog:

it could be a bit to scroll, right? Yeah, but if it's really so called, not

Martin Lindeskog:

important, but if somebody tagging you whatever, you will see it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, you don't have to be stressed, but it will take some time to search for things and

Martin Lindeskog:

so on, but it will come to you.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I have a very, in a way, interesting mix

Martin Lindeskog:

of uses that I'm following.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's all over the place and all the spectra,

Martin Lindeskog:

political wise and whatnot sometimes I'm always like, okay, I don't like this.

Martin Lindeskog:

Should I block it or should I remove it or should unfollow or should I let it be?

Martin Lindeskog:

I had somebody that comment on me that I was sharing something and then were coming on this

Martin Lindeskog:

Tea Party media and thought it was with modern Tea Party movement, like the political.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I didn't respond because it was so out of blue.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I said, okay, you could have that opinion, but if you don't really care to investigate a

Martin Lindeskog:

bit more, I don't have to respond to it either.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's a good thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

And you can't do even if I like it.

Martin Lindeskog:

But you can't retweet so called you can't repost quotation, like out of context thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

You can't do that.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, I mean, you can boost things and covers the favorite.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I think Mastermind will also continue to evolve now that we also see Nostar, they're

Martin Mouritzen:

probably going to steal a few ideas from each other.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I don't get noster.

Martin Lindeskog:

So do you want to say something.

Martin Mouritzen:

About no, so I don't use Nostar.

Martin Mouritzen:

I've tried and I think I get how it works on a shallow level.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I did find like Adam Curry and stuff, and I tried to follow, but it didn't really work

Martin Mouritzen:

for me.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, I can't say much about Nostar.

Martin Mouritzen:

I saw some of the work that Dave from Podcasting 2.0 have been doing with the chat

Martin Mouritzen:

where he's using and I like that.

Martin Mouritzen:

I like that and I like the concept.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think as soon as we get for us developers, like some sort of class that we

Martin Mouritzen:

can just use like a framework so that we can implement it without knowing much about the

Martin Mouritzen:

technology, then I think maybe we can actually use it for live chats and things like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, and that's a good thing that you mention that because maybe that

Martin Lindeskog:

will come in.

Martin Lindeskog:

We jump into that directly because you were

Martin Lindeskog:

one of the early I've written that as a note here.

Martin Lindeskog:

Early adopter nowadays is it about 70 different application and services and not web

Martin Lindeskog:

hosts, but podcast hosts.

Martin Lindeskog:

And whatnot on these new podcast apps or new

Martin Lindeskog:

podcastapps.com also that directs to podcast index and the tab on apps or applications.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then if you then click, for example, if your operating system or whatnot, you could

Martin Lindeskog:

also click on apps or applications, then it may be plus 30 or something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

But you were one with Pod Friend, you were one of the first, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I don't know if it was their first, but it was definitely one of the

Martin Mouritzen:

very first.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, I remember writing to Adam even before

Martin Mouritzen:

the Podcasting 2.0 podcast was live, because at that point I was creating Pod Friend and I

Martin Mouritzen:

was scraping the itunes API, which is very gray zone, legal or not legal.

Martin Mouritzen:

And certainly they had the option of turning that off anytime they wanted.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I can't remember if I found it through like a search or someone told me, but

Martin Mouritzen:

someone basically said, reach out to Adam Curry, he's building something you'll find

Martin Mouritzen:

interesting.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I wrote him an email and he then CC Dave

Martin Mouritzen:

and say, hey, can we give this guy access? And I was like, yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I got access to the API pretty fast.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I think after the first episode,

Martin Mouritzen:

between the first and the second episode, I made an open source implementation that I put

Martin Mouritzen:

on GitHub that used the Podcast Index API that people could take and learn from and build

Martin Mouritzen:

their own applications.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so I made that and I think that it was a

Martin Mouritzen:

really good thing because it meant that other people could see, like, oh, this is how we

Martin Mouritzen:

used API, and you can actually build something real on top of the index.

Martin Mouritzen:

And that was even before any new tax or the value for value and streaming bitcoins.

Martin Mouritzen:

The way I learned about it was basically through the index.

Martin Mouritzen:

And for me, it was a game changer because I could get much more reliable podcast

Martin Mouritzen:

information for the podcast app.

Martin Lindeskog:

Is it like when I talked to Mitch of podverse, he said that he started

Martin Lindeskog:

creating his app because he wanted to do clips.

Martin Lindeskog:

Then it evolved.

Martin Lindeskog:

Why did you start programming this app?

Martin Lindeskog:

Was it for your own sake or was it that you saw that with all apps out there?

Martin Lindeskog:

I see that, especially like web browser, web browsed, but I see an opportunity here or why

Martin Lindeskog:

did you do it?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, historically my background is in programming and in my day to

Martin Mouritzen:

day work, I work as a product manager where I spend a lot of my time looking at product

Martin Mouritzen:

opportunities and stuff like that.

Martin Mouritzen:

And this time I would say I didn't really look

Martin Mouritzen:

at the product opportunity that much except just knowing that it was there.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it was for my own sake.

Martin Mouritzen:

It was actually because I listened to a lot of

Martin Mouritzen:

true crime podcasts and I had this idea.

Martin Mouritzen:

First of all, hey, whenever they mention a

Martin Mouritzen:

photo or something and then they say you can go to our website and you can see the photo, I

Martin Mouritzen:

was thinking, why doesn't it pop up in my podcast player?

Martin Mouritzen:

That was even before the name chapter space.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

Back then I just thought, oh, the only option to do it is proprietary, like doing it in my

Martin Mouritzen:

own app.

Martin Mouritzen:

But now the option of Chapters is there.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then it was also because I used Spotify for podcasting mostly, and I also use Spotify

Martin Mouritzen:

for music.

Martin Mouritzen:

And for me it's two very different things.

Martin Mouritzen:

I use music, for example, while coding and I listen to podcasts while walking the dog or

Martin Mouritzen:

sitting in a bus, or even also sometimes at the computer, but not when coding because I

Martin Mouritzen:

can't listen to someone talk and code at the same time.

Martin Mouritzen:

But Spotify, I treated this as like one thing.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I kept being annoyed that I'm sitting

Martin Mouritzen:

coding and I press the play button and a podcast comes like, oh, now I have to find my

Martin Mouritzen:

music again.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I thought, let me make something that

Martin Mouritzen:

works better.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, and there you have this elephant in the room.

Martin Lindeskog:

So Spotify, I am a so called Apple fanboy, but I'm very critical to Apple in a way, in a

Martin Lindeskog:

constructive way.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as Adam said, itunes, that is now Podcast

Martin Lindeskog:

Index or Podcaster app, that's standard app on your iPhone, have been treating it in a pretty

Martin Lindeskog:

good way, but they haven't developed it at all.

Martin Lindeskog:

But Apple podcast or Apple Music, I know at least that the art is getting more paid than

Martin Lindeskog:

other places.

Martin Lindeskog:

But when it comes to podcast, when Spotify was

Martin Lindeskog:

doing that one thing and this now have become a debate, how should you listen to a podcast?

Martin Lindeskog:

But I'm talking pretty slow.

Martin Lindeskog:

I think I could be exciting and talk quicker.

Martin Lindeskog:

And if people want to speed up and if it's a long interview, I think it's totally okay to

Martin Lindeskog:

have a different speed.

Martin Lindeskog:

If it doesn't sound strange and like Uber cost

Martin Lindeskog:

you could do that with and other applications.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then now on mustard on that been a

Martin Lindeskog:

discussion about that.

Martin Lindeskog:

If you speed up too much, you get stressed.

Martin Lindeskog:

And they have a point there also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But on Spotify, because music, you should only

Martin Lindeskog:

play it in one way, right? If it was not vinyl, then you could play it

Martin Lindeskog:

around and have secret messages or whatever with the Beatles or whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

They were saying that they're doing special things anyway, so they didn't have that

Martin Lindeskog:

feature to play on another speed because it was based on a music application, not a

Martin Lindeskog:

podcast application.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now we're trying to even have in the

Martin Lindeskog:

future maybe like audiobooks or ebooks and whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

And they really try as I have this expression and I'm for the free market, but they really

Martin Lindeskog:

try to corner the market to get everything.

Martin Lindeskog:

And the listener, as Todd Cochrane of

Martin Lindeskog:

Blueberry saying, the listener doesn't really care and especially the younger generation.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right.

Martin Lindeskog:

So here's a challenge.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's what I like now and I've seen lots of new podcast apps, but you could pick and

Martin Lindeskog:

choose and then of course, you could go back to if you favor some of the old ones.

Martin Lindeskog:

I mean, Apple podcaster app at the beginning that was not the best app, but they have

Martin Lindeskog:

improved, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

But now I want really to focus on the new podcast app.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's again interesting how you come up with this idea.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I could say that to maybe find my niche because as a new media advisor, I have to

Martin Lindeskog:

learn with different categories.

Martin Lindeskog:

And one of my things saying it's so called 4

Martin Lindeskog:

million podcasts out there, maybe 500,000 are active.

Martin Lindeskog:

Is it 30 different categories? You have categories on your site?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, there's a lot of categories.

Martin Mouritzen:

I'm only showing a few of them.

Martin Lindeskog:

So if you start dividing, it's not so much to compete with even if it's

Martin Lindeskog:

thousands of them compared to YouTube, whatever.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's interesting.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's still open and still maybe in Denmark and

Martin Lindeskog:

Sweden often it's on the top list of consumption for one reason is like the

Martin Lindeskog:

Internet and the speed of phones and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And also that this streaming thing that you

Martin Lindeskog:

could do, it pretty cheaply compared to others when they have their seller plans and so on

Martin Lindeskog:

and it could really be expensive and we don't really think about that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then of course, maybe Spotify and others have been because it's one of the most used.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that could be one reason also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I know, for example, that True Crimes and

Martin Lindeskog:

this kind of category is very big and one of one is it Podme.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think you're thinking about a company yeah, in Sweden.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's now owned by Boniers with big Publication, but they started with

Martin Lindeskog:

True Crimes and also that you pay for it like almost like an audiobook service, like

Martin Lindeskog:

Audible.

Martin Lindeskog:

Podimo you're talking yeah, that's another

Martin Lindeskog:

one, but that's one in Denmark.

Martin Lindeskog:

But Podme is in Swedish one.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I often have it as a case that you could really do this profitable and also charge

Martin Lindeskog:

money for it.

Martin Lindeskog:

If you find your niche of listeners and they

Martin Lindeskog:

think like a podcast and it is a value, but they think it's almost like an audiobook and

Martin Lindeskog:

say, oh, maybe it's 100 Swedish crowns or 100 Danish crowns per month, it's okay if I like

Martin Lindeskog:

all this true crown.

Martin Lindeskog:

And when they got popular, they have lots of

Martin Lindeskog:

of course they have investors and so on also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But lots of paying members and then they could

Martin Lindeskog:

buy new shows and hire in order to have this content creation, like really slick production

Martin Lindeskog:

and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I see that market.

Martin Lindeskog:

But for me, as a so called sensitive soft guy, I don't like to listen to murder and things

Martin Lindeskog:

and all these terrible things.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course I like Sherlock Holmes, I like

Martin Lindeskog:

Hitchcock, he was a master.

Martin Lindeskog:

But personally but I have to learn about it

Martin Lindeskog:

because it's a really big category.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I would say maybe when I say I like True crime, maybe what I really

Martin Mouritzen:

like is actually investigative podcast, like documentaries.

Martin Lindeskog:

So they want to solve a problem.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think a lot of the.

Martin Lindeskog:

Like this that I thought was so called, we call it Cornflex or Fling or in

Martin Lindeskog:

Swedish cereal.

Martin Lindeskog:

First I thought it was cereal, but not

Martin Lindeskog:

serious.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that was we could joke about that now

Martin Lindeskog:

again.

Martin Lindeskog:

Then it was when podcasting was booming

Martin Lindeskog:

because the mainstream media was writing about this successful podcast series that was very

Martin Lindeskog:

well produced and lots of new listeners because still maybe 50% don't know about

Martin Lindeskog:

podcasting yet.

Martin Lindeskog:

Even if it's hard to think about, it's still a

Martin Lindeskog:

market out there.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, definitely.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, sometimes we know about it and we are

Martin Mouritzen:

a bit in a bubble, right? Yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's interesting when I talk to my mom and her husband, they really love audio dramas and

Martin Mouritzen:

audio books, but they don't know podcasting.

Martin Mouritzen:

They've never tried it.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I keep telling them, just listen to this one thing and then they're like, maybe, and

Martin Mouritzen:

then they never there.

Martin Lindeskog:

You have one that I want to interview on our podcast, probably the secular

Martin Lindeskog:

Foxhole, because I know he's outspoken about faith and that he's an atheist.

Martin Lindeskog:

Evotera, that is one of an old time podcasters.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now he's very focused into the audio drama and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

So he created his own website, is now focused on that segment.

Martin Lindeskog:

But he has been very prolific talking about Podcasting 2.0 and other things.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's fascinating.

Martin Mouritzen:

Speaking of Master, actually, I followed that guy.

Martin Mouritzen:

I don't really know who he is, but he kept sharing like irrelevant things and then it's

Martin Mouritzen:

just unfollow because it pollutes the timeline.

Martin Lindeskog:

We will wave to Everterra.

Martin Lindeskog:

We could have a debate about that.

Martin Mouritzen:

Maybe I'll follow him again at some point.

Martin Lindeskog:

I think you should.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's what I said, that I have this broad

Martin Lindeskog:

spectrum.

Martin Lindeskog:

I have people who thinks that I'm not

Martin Lindeskog:

interested in a way, but it moves on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then he could write about like

Martin Lindeskog:

microbrewery and I like it.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as a fun thing, he said something about

Martin Lindeskog:

beef jerky and I liked that and said, have you tested this?

Martin Lindeskog:

And he said, could you send it to me? So I did it and then he posted it and it was

Martin Lindeskog:

very happy.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I liked that.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I understand what you're saying.

Martin Lindeskog:

I have some that are as I call it on the edge

Martin Lindeskog:

because sometimes I'm almost there clicking because now it's getting out of hand, but then

Martin Lindeskog:

I take a breather and then it's gone.

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, I certainly accept that people share whatever irrelevant things.

Martin Mouritzen:

When I say irrelevant, it's because I mostly use mastodon for podcasting subjects.

Martin Mouritzen:

But then when I follow someone that they may have posted something interesting about

Martin Mouritzen:

podcasting, but then when they ten days in a row post something about cooking recipes or

Martin Mouritzen:

something, then I'm like, okay, unfollow.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then later they will get another chance if

Martin Mouritzen:

they share something interesting and someone else in my timeline likes it or something.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I think that's a good thing that you could do it like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I joined his podcast index social because I wanted to focus on the podcasting thing and

Martin Lindeskog:

for me it was which should I pick and how could you join?

Martin Lindeskog:

I mean, still, it's it's an in a way challenge, but it's still early.

Martin Mouritzen:

Days in the user experience that's yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it will, it will come around and talking about that then the podcast

Martin Lindeskog:

more your podcast app.

Martin Lindeskog:

So pod friend, how friendly is your podcast

Martin Lindeskog:

app? I see it's a funny logo type and a bit quirky

Martin Lindeskog:

with the tongue and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

Could you tell a little bit about that mascot

Martin Lindeskog:

or what you call it?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I mean, the mascot was actually a friend of mine and she made it for

Martin Mouritzen:

me because I asked her, could you try creating something fun and quirky?

Martin Mouritzen:

And then she made that and we're like, okay, that's now pot friend.

Martin Mouritzen:

So yeah, that's how that came about.

Martin Mouritzen:

And yeah, how friendly is it?

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, right now I would say there's definitely work to do and it's an ongoing project.

Martin Mouritzen:

Right now I wanted the version two out there, but I definitely want to revisit every single

Martin Mouritzen:

page in the app and think about, okay, how could this be more user friendly?

Martin Mouritzen:

Of course, I have the challenge that I'm both on the web and on the desktop and on the

Martin Mouritzen:

mobile.

Martin Mouritzen:

So every time I make something, it has to work

Martin Mouritzen:

on all platforms.

Martin Mouritzen:

And it's both fun.

Martin Mouritzen:

But sometimes it's also a challenge because I will have this idea.

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh, you know what? While the episode is live, I can just show the

Martin Mouritzen:

chat over here on the side on the desktop, and it's like, oh, but how would that work on

Martin Mouritzen:

mobile? Then we need an icon you can press or

Martin Mouritzen:

something.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I was comment on that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Now we're going back and forth.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I was thinking about the interrelate chat thing that you could use and then I clicked

Martin Lindeskog:

and I asked about you on the mastodon there and the chat, if you could move that chat

Martin Lindeskog:

because it's popping up and I could listen.

Martin Lindeskog:

But if I move around or something like that,

Martin Lindeskog:

maybe I would close it down by mistake.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I've used this other that Dave had done for

Martin Lindeskog:

fun because it was very old school.

Martin Lindeskog:

But what I'm clicking on here and they said

Martin Lindeskog:

something long, string and are you really sure that you want will you publish this on

Martin Lindeskog:

Nostril? I don't know, something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I was what I'm doing here, I'm doing it right or not.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I like because interrelate chat I know from back in the day.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so that's one area where there's definitely a lot of work to do,

Martin Mouritzen:

both in the concept that Davis made, I think I was to implement it in Podfriend, I would hide

Martin Mouritzen:

all of those advanced settings from you.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like maybe you would have an advanced tab

Martin Mouritzen:

somewhere where you could do some of those things so you could take your identity from

Martin Mouritzen:

somewhere else and move in.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if you don't know about it, it would just

Martin Mouritzen:

be a normal chat where you don't have to think about that.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then with the IRC Internet Relay Chat you're talking about where right now I pop it

Martin Mouritzen:

up in a window as you said.

Martin Mouritzen:

If you're on desktop, for example, it makes

Martin Mouritzen:

perfect sense if it opened up in like an external window so you could move it around.

Martin Mouritzen:

That's definitely one idea that I will steal from you now.

Martin Mouritzen:

You're welcome.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I must say that because I'm not a programmer.

Martin Lindeskog:

Back in the day I could so called program HTML, very basic websites back when you had to

Martin Lindeskog:

do it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Now I don't have to, so I have forgotten about

Martin Lindeskog:

that.

Martin Lindeskog:

But as Adam is saying, give the developers

Martin Lindeskog:

time and of course you could push them in a friendly way and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now I'm joke that's why I wanted to have you on the show because you were one of our

Martin Lindeskog:

adopters and then others have coming around and it's really a friendly competition.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, it's easy, actually, because the new podcasting apps like podverse

Martin Mouritzen:

Pod Friend Curiocast or Pot Station, Fountain, all those apps, we are what, 0.1% of the

Martin Mouritzen:

market? And then you have the big players like Apple,

Martin Mouritzen:

Podcasts and Spotify that are, I don't know, 90% of the market.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then there are a few indie apps that do have some percentages, but it's like we're not

Martin Mouritzen:

competing with each other down here.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like the indie apps.

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, maybe like in in the podcast in 2.0 space but that's that's friendly competition.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if we want to make it big at one one day, then it's really the Apple Podcast and Spotify

Martin Mouritzen:

users that we are after.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think some people are happy being a very

Martin Mouritzen:

niche podcast like for Podfriend.

Martin Mouritzen:

I do work on the 2.0 abilities even though I

Martin Mouritzen:

know oh my God, only ten people will actually benefit from this or in the start.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then as it grows it'll be more and more and then I try to balance it with more user

Martin Mouritzen:

friendly things like I have a long list of features that I want to implement and.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then I hope to one day make it more user friendly than Apple podcast and then still

Martin Mouritzen:

have all those features in.

Martin Mouritzen:

But there's a long way to go and I have a day

Martin Mouritzen:

job so I work on it like evenings and in the weekend.

Martin Mouritzen:

And yeah, I think I have the advantage of just being one person with both product and

Martin Mouritzen:

developer and designer experience so I can move very fast.

Martin Mouritzen:

And yeah, I hope to keep that advantage and then I look very much forward to see where

Martin Mouritzen:

things will be one year or two years from now.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I will now show for live T shirt here and

Martin Lindeskog:

it's saying Pod Runner.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it's not in a way it is a podcast.

Martin Lindeskog:

He is listed on a podcast I think he is hosting on Libson and that's Pod Runner and

Martin Lindeskog:

Groove Electric and he's doing DDA and he's also an author writing science fiction novels.

Martin Lindeskog:

And he has this that you could support him on a monthly basis like Patreon and PayPal and

Martin Lindeskog:

others I think maybe not patron, I don't know, but PayPal and then also you could buy

Martin Lindeskog:

merchandise.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I want to introduce him to this value for

Martin Lindeskog:

value and what will happen in the future because he has to buy the rights for different

Martin Lindeskog:

songs or tunes in order to mix them right and doing different beats per minute and put it

Martin Lindeskog:

together.

Martin Lindeskog:

He has to have the rights in order to put this

Martin Lindeskog:

finished song or how do you call it, like a mix album on digital.

Martin Lindeskog:

So if he, for example, has one.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I know that when I asked Robin Greenley

Martin Lindeskog:

when he was on Libs and if he had been talking to this guy pod runner now, I forgot his name,

Martin Lindeskog:

but he has.

Martin Lindeskog:

His newsletters I really recommend to check it

Martin Lindeskog:

out Pod Runner because there's lots of work to do that mix and buy the rights and putting it

Martin Lindeskog:

together with the beats per minute and the style.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then you also have this exercise or like mixes on different beats per minute if you're

Martin Lindeskog:

running or if you're walking or whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

But if you could do like what Adam Now have

Martin Lindeskog:

done with this wavelake and also what is called now beats.

Martin Lindeskog:

Beats, yeah, now running up on the charge and so on because they are boosting it.

Martin Lindeskog:

This could be very interesting and what could come out of it.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I actually spent some of the time today before meeting refining.

Martin Mouritzen:

So the new technology behind it is the value split tag where you define like, hey, this

Martin Mouritzen:

part of my show, the value is streamed to this other podcast and then they have their own

Martin Mouritzen:

value block.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I made it work in Podfriend right now, I

Martin Mouritzen:

think with like gaffer tape and a bit of glue.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I hope to release that before the Friday

Martin Mouritzen:

show so that you can also use Podfriend to do that because I think Steven from Curacast.

Martin Mouritzen:

He's definitely been running with scissors there and I think having one more

Martin Mouritzen:

implementation will just lend more credibility to the sack.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, that's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

I'm very happy now I interrupt you, but I'm

Martin Lindeskog:

very happy to have used Curacaster also like a web.

Martin Lindeskog:

And he was so nice with Secular.

Martin Lindeskog:

Foxholes sent a small boostogram to him and

Martin Lindeskog:

then he put our show on the features or highlights.

Martin Lindeskog:

But again, with the design, I could say it's like black background and white text and I

Martin Lindeskog:

haven't got into it so much, but I like it, so I want to test different ones and then you

Martin Lindeskog:

could of course give positive feedback but also be patient.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now he's working on this music thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's very interesting how this plays

Martin Lindeskog:

around.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now on one of my screen, on my smartphone,

Martin Lindeskog:

I have I don't know how many of his new podcast apps there are and I test for

Martin Lindeskog:

different wings.

Martin Lindeskog:

Like for example, one I like very much when I

Martin Lindeskog:

wanted to have a clean interface and loading it because I have an old phone, I have an

Martin Lindeskog:

iPhone six S Plus because still you have a micro you could put the microphone in but not

Martin Lindeskog:

convert.

Martin Lindeskog:

The battery is getting there, but that run

Martin Lindeskog:

very smoothly with podcast Guru.

Martin Lindeskog:

But now he is also starting with Value for

Martin Lindeskog:

Value.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's interesting.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then of course, you could support different with do you have a premium feature

Martin Lindeskog:

also?

Martin Mouritzen:

I do, not right now, but as soon as my app gets approved to like Apple

Martin Mouritzen:

podcasts.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, because that's a challenge to yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I found out with the version one of Podfriend that it was really

Martin Mouritzen:

hard to get it on the App Store because and they gave the reason oh, this could have been

Martin Mouritzen:

a website.

Martin Mouritzen:

I'm like well, today anything could be a

Martin Mouritzen:

website.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like I can recreate any app on.

Martin Lindeskog:

A website and that's how iPhone and Apple have done it themselves.

Martin Lindeskog:

They have open it up to that.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's a crazy reason, but I'm guessing that they are just it's almost like

Martin Mouritzen:

per default that they're denying new apps.

Martin Mouritzen:

Let them try a few times just to see if they

Martin Mouritzen:

really mean it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Okay, yeah, it's interesting.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I will then try to get you to the split on this show also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But that also had been a challenge that I first did this Satushi stream and had done

Martin Lindeskog:

this checkmark and then I think it was James and then it was Dave and some others that

Martin Lindeskog:

helped me in order to get it.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then I saw Fountain coming along and I

Martin Lindeskog:

really could see, wow, this is so then I moved.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now I like Fountain.

Martin Lindeskog:

But also I've seen how they have had some, you

Martin Lindeskog:

could say growing pain, especially on my old phone.

Martin Lindeskog:

I could see how it was very but I had lots of podcasts on it and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's interesting again how it plays around and they have picked their way this friendly

Martin Lindeskog:

competition again.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you have others that adding this LB

Martin Lindeskog:

and wallet.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I think everyone will be able to compete in

Martin Lindeskog:

a friend with each other.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then like this gamification the lists.

Martin Lindeskog:

Now you could continue because I interrupt you, but with Pod friend being as earlier

Martin Lindeskog:

adopter.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then now you do this new big version.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as you said, it is web based, but it should be synchronized so you could use it

Martin Lindeskog:

also on a smartphone or others.

Martin Lindeskog:

But are you planning to have a dedicated

Martin Lindeskog:

application also that you will download or what's your thinking.

Martin Mouritzen:

With the version one, I already had iOS and Android app.

Martin Mouritzen:

The iOS app was on test flight because they kept not approving it.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I also had a desktop native application both for Mac and Windows.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I'm definitely going to do the very same thing.

Martin Mouritzen:

I already have the desktop app working and I think it will be one week, maybe two weeks

Martin Mouritzen:

until I have the iOS test flight apps out.

Martin Mouritzen:

For now, it's just making sure that everything

Martin Mouritzen:

works on Web because then I only have one platform to think of right now.

Martin Mouritzen:

Because for example, one of the new things is that you can connect with Albie and for most

Martin Mouritzen:

people it seems to work and then there's a few that says like, oh, I couldn't get it to

Martin Mouritzen:

connect.

Martin Mouritzen:

And even the guys from Albie said like, I

Martin Mouritzen:

tried three accounts and one it worked and two, it didn't.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as I said, again, it's these technical things.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I could say that I have been there also and I have to remember the password or forget

Martin Lindeskog:

the password.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now I try to get it into because I've had

Martin Lindeskog:

that also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But that's probably settings that I could

Martin Lindeskog:

change on podverse when I send a boostogram.

Martin Lindeskog:

Albie is asking me like ten times for the

Martin Lindeskog:

different splits.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

Do you agree? Do you agree, do you agree?

Martin Lindeskog:

Do you agree? And A bling bling Bling, it's a safety thing

Martin Lindeskog:

and I could probably check mark something, but also to log in.

Martin Lindeskog:

Sometimes it's getting in this strange loop and you're out and in.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I agree because in a way it's a safety thing because an LB wallet is real money.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course I don't have on it, but it's very lots of security things and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it should work.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right when I was topping up with fiat

Martin Lindeskog:

currency, the first time I used Blue wallet and the second time I tried to do it, it

Martin Lindeskog:

didn't work.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I sent an email, I sent a Twitter, no

Martin Lindeskog:

response.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then it was something about how to say

Martin Lindeskog:

sundown or they were closing down something, but I don't know exactly.

Martin Lindeskog:

Okay, so now with Moon, pay is working.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, it's lots of things in place in order to

Martin Lindeskog:

get it.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as Adam is saying, the regular person or

Martin Lindeskog:

Average Joe or Mr. Smith or whatever don't know how to do this, but they want to feel

Martin Lindeskog:

secure and safe and no strange.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah. And it's interesting.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like the first version of Pod Friend, I used

Martin Mouritzen:

something called lnpay for the streaming.

Martin Mouritzen:

And what was really good about that was that I

Martin Mouritzen:

could abstract the whole idea of wallets and stuff away.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like you just had a Pot Friend wallet, a bit like Fountain, you have your own wallet there,

Martin Mouritzen:

so you didn't need to connect anything.

Martin Mouritzen:

And with LB, then you have to go off into this

Martin Mouritzen:

third party space and create a wallet and fill it up and then you come back and connect it.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think I'm going to explore going back to the roots where newbies they just have a

Martin Mouritzen:

wallet.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then if you're a power user, well, then

Martin Mouritzen:

you can connect your LB wallet.

Martin Mouritzen:

Okay, let's do that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because again, you shouldn't put everything eggs in the basket and whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

And if it's really a big amount, you probably should have it on your secure keys or cold

Martin Lindeskog:

keys or whatever they call it.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I'm not there yet.

Martin Lindeskog:

But with ALB it's nice that you could use several apps and it's connected to the same

Martin Lindeskog:

because that's the thing, if you have one wallet here and one there and another, it's

Martin Lindeskog:

starting adding up also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it's interesting how this should

Martin Lindeskog:

synchronize and play around.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's nice to see what you're working at

Martin Lindeskog:

that and especially the synchronization.

Martin Lindeskog:

So could I then put you on the spot a little

Martin Lindeskog:

bit then? When I did a search on Pod News Weekly review.

Martin Lindeskog:

I search on the podcast.

Martin Lindeskog:

I want to be open to get the guest and don't

Martin Lindeskog:

do in a way I doing research and so on and we have each other a little bit, but I wanted to

Martin Lindeskog:

listen because you have been on Pod News, right?

Martin Lindeskog:

With long episode it was Mark esquitz and it was somebody else and you right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, it was SAS Camaria from Fountain.

Martin Mouritzen:

Exactly.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that was one of the latest episodes and I tried to find it on Pod

Martin Lindeskog:

Friend.

Martin Lindeskog:

I didn't find May 12.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so, interestingly enough, it was actually because Sam Sethi I

Martin Mouritzen:

think made an error because he added it to the season one instead of season two.

Martin Lindeskog:

Okay, that explains that's easy to do.

Martin Mouritzen:

I have done, yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's not a fault of Pot Friend at the

Martin Mouritzen:

moment here you out.

Martin Lindeskog:

There, Sam SETI and yeah, it's funny.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think he did fix it now, actually, I don't know if maybe I'm cashing a

Martin Mouritzen:

little bit too hard there.

Martin Mouritzen:

So for you it still shows up on season one.

Martin Mouritzen:

I'll take a look at least.

Martin Mouritzen:

Of course.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that was rearranged in a way it's good because then you could start as

Martin Lindeskog:

my co host of our podcast on Tea.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's a playwood word, so I say it in Swedish

Martin Lindeskog:

productivity, how to be productive and drink tea.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's a made up word in Swedish.

Martin Lindeskog:

But Michael is that you should start from the

Martin Lindeskog:

beginning and then you learn the development of the podcast and the discussion and how you

Martin Lindeskog:

develop the podcast.

Martin Lindeskog:

And you could also because when you start

Martin Lindeskog:

podcasting, when you look back, you always say oh, the sound or how did I talk, whatnot?

Martin Lindeskog:

But you have to start somewhere, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

At your default is the oldest first.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right.

Martin Mouritzen:

That actually changes.

Martin Mouritzen:

Okay, so if the podcast has several seasons,

Martin Mouritzen:

then it will start with the oldest first.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if it's a podcast that has no seasons but

Martin Mouritzen:

just a long list of episodes, it will show newest first.

Martin Mouritzen:

Because I'm making the assumption that if there's seasons, you want to start with the

Martin Mouritzen:

oldest first.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, and if there's no seasons, then it's

Martin Mouritzen:

probably like a news style, like pot news or something and then you want to probably listen

Martin Mouritzen:

to the newest first.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's the logic I have built in.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if you change it once, then it will remember forever.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's a good thing because again, I don't listen to so many even if I

Martin Lindeskog:

have codes.

Martin Lindeskog:

But we have season but that have been seasoned

Martin Lindeskog:

for different ways.

Martin Lindeskog:

Maybe you have a theme.

Martin Lindeskog:

So one called Victor in Swedish, important for real with current coach, that's a master

Martin Lindeskog:

certified coach ICF.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now we are season seven.

Martin Lindeskog:

So every season has a theme beginning, it was the senses, it was the elements and now it's

Martin Lindeskog:

about very much about her coaching and also podcasting and how it's interwean and how it

Martin Lindeskog:

could work together and the networking.

Martin Lindeskog:

So the guests have been often in different

Martin Lindeskog:

business networks and how they have meet each other and how you could for example, use

Martin Lindeskog:

LinkedIn or whatnot, but also how podcasting could help you in different ways.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's very interesting way and that have developed over time.

Martin Lindeskog:

So after every season you could take a little break and a breeder and plan ahead.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because again, and I have challenged that also myself having a podcast and not.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, but it's like you mentioned that there are 4 million podcasts

Martin Mouritzen:

out there and some of them are active.

Martin Mouritzen:

But as I said, I listen to a lot of true

Martin Mouritzen:

crime, I listen to a lot of investigative yeah, investigative podcasts and stuff and and

Martin Mouritzen:

also, you know, some podcasts that are about, you know, as you say, coaching or something.

Martin Mouritzen:

So they are evergreen like, like, you know, it doesn't matter if they're active, you know, if

Martin Mouritzen:

I find them and I start them, you know, from the first episode it still gives me value and

Martin Mouritzen:

as we talked about the value for value, why shouldn't I stream value to them?

Martin Lindeskog:

That's good, I see the opportunity there.

Martin Lindeskog:

So do you want to talk about because in a way there is no such problem as this discovered

Martin Lindeskog:

problem.

Martin Lindeskog:

I know Rob Walsh at Libson saying that it's

Martin Lindeskog:

word of mouth but for small players it's hard to reach out.

Martin Lindeskog:

Often in mainstream media we only talk about, I don't know how it is in Denmark but in

Martin Lindeskog:

Sweden it's often these celebrities they are talking about or the big names.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's hard with the independent podcasters but you could do it in guerrilla marketing in

Martin Lindeskog:

different ways you could reach out but you have one that recent plays and also popular or

Martin Lindeskog:

something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Could you explain is it so called an algorithm

Martin Lindeskog:

or what's playing there when you log in?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I mean the trending I actually get from the podcast index it's

Martin Mouritzen:

basically based on how many people downloaded across the new podcasting 2.0 apps that's some

Martin Mouritzen:

generic popularity and then I have the latest listened in Pod Friend and that's only from

Martin Mouritzen:

people that are logged in.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then you can kind of see it's.

Martin Mouritzen:

Because the next step for me is to create lists and friends a bit like Facebook, so I

Martin Mouritzen:

can follow you and then I can have like let's say I make a list that's called True Crime or

Martin Mouritzen:

something.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then I can have latest listens by your friends

Martin Mouritzen:

in True Crime.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it becomes much more social, I think, in

Martin Mouritzen:

some areas.

Martin Mouritzen:

Fountain also does it really well.

Martin Mouritzen:

You can see who boosts what.

Martin Mouritzen:

I definitely want to introduce some of the

Martin Mouritzen:

same things in Pot friend yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

Because I really believe there is the power in

Martin Mouritzen:

community but I do also believe sometimes it makes sense narrowing down like, hey, I want

Martin Mouritzen:

to see what my friends like but within this category.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I'm definitely going to be doing a lot more work around how to discover podcasts and using

Martin Mouritzen:

the other people listening on Podfriend to create smarter things.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I'm never going to make algorithms.

Martin Lindeskog:

That will keep privacy thing.

Martin Mouritzen:

No. So I will definitely make either opt in or opt out.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that if you don't want people to know what you listen to you shouldn't be forced to

Martin Mouritzen:

contribute to that.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if you're like hey, I don't care if people

Martin Mouritzen:

know because then it also becomes one of those things where I can see that you listen to

Martin Mouritzen:

Podcasting 2.0 and if I don't know the show then I'll be like let.

Martin Lindeskog:

Me see, that's a good thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

Will you get like similar to the Fountain and

Martin Lindeskog:

also podverse you get like a profile, a public profile also Fountain is even with the clips

Martin Lindeskog:

and things like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

podverse is more also the clips and what you

Martin Lindeskog:

are subscribing to.

Martin Lindeskog:

I'm not sure about that but will that be also

Martin Lindeskog:

that I will have Podfriend.com username or profile name or something like that or an ID

Martin Lindeskog:

number or something like that?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, 100% so I actually already coded that well some of it like an

Martin Mouritzen:

early version so it will come like I have a lot of things that are like 50% done and it

Martin Mouritzen:

just needs the last bit.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's one of those things.

Martin Mouritzen:

That because it is a hobby project I can work on.

Martin Mouritzen:

If I just get an idea, I can be like, hey, what would this look like?

Martin Mouritzen:

Of course, to actually release it, it would need more time, like more polish.

Martin Lindeskog:

And there we have something that I interviewed on my first podcast or

Martin Lindeskog:

Egonet Cost that I started in 2006.

Martin Lindeskog:

I interviewed a guy where he was one of the

Martin Lindeskog:

first employees at Libson and he has created an app for iOS and that is called Backpack

Martin Lindeskog:

Studio.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now the name again, but Philovat is his

Martin Lindeskog:

name.

Martin Lindeskog:

Then he had this live thing, but it's more

Martin Lindeskog:

like a radio thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

What was it?

Martin Lindeskog:

White? I don't remember.

Martin Lindeskog:

But you had to hook up something.

Martin Lindeskog:

It was a bit technical for me, but you could

Martin Lindeskog:

do that.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's interesting to see where we come

Martin Lindeskog:

into this.

Martin Lindeskog:

And he had this roadmap, he had some ideas and

Martin Lindeskog:

thoughts, what people wanted to have, but then he asked of course it could be that people who

Martin Lindeskog:

are eager, they could push their own agenda, what they want, and then you have to decide

Martin Lindeskog:

yourself also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But how did you come up with this live item

Martin Lindeskog:

tag then? Lit?

Martin Mouritzen:

So the lit, it's actually very straightforward.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's because every time I listen to Podcasting 2.0 Live, I had to use a different podcasting

Martin Mouritzen:

app than my own and that just felt like it hurt my professional pride.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's like I have to implement this.

Martin Mouritzen:

So yeah, I did.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then for a while I could just listen on the Podfront beta, which was I was the only

Martin Mouritzen:

user and then now it's released and everyone can.

Martin Lindeskog:

Use and you did a good guerrilla market there.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also, you boost.

Martin Lindeskog:

You did a huge boost there a boostogram when

Martin Lindeskog:

you went live.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so I actually felt like I took like a year break.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I was extremely active in the first part of Podcasting 2.0 to the point where I probably

Martin Mouritzen:

burned out a little bit.

Martin Mouritzen:

My wife and I, we bought a house.

Martin Mouritzen:

There was a lot of work to do there and I got a promotion at my job, which seems like a good

Martin Mouritzen:

thing, but it eats a lot of your free time in the start and I just had to prioritize.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it wasn't even like conscious, it was just I didn't have the time.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then coming back every week I still listen to the Podcasting 2.0 shows, but then when I

Martin Mouritzen:

came back I was like, hey, I got a lot of value for those shows and I didn't actually

Martin Mouritzen:

boost very much.

Martin Mouritzen:

I did boost a little bit.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I felt like, hey, now let me make a few big boosts to make up for it.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I did that also in order to get really to

Martin Lindeskog:

show support, but also to get this Vatam new so called to joke but serious at the same

Martin Lindeskog:

time.

Martin Lindeskog:

Podcasting 2.0 certified because I have a t

Martin Lindeskog:

shirt now.

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh, I actually have that as well.

Martin Mouritzen:

I should have worn that for this interview.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I love it.

Martin Lindeskog:

I like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now I put that as the tagline on LinkedIn

Martin Lindeskog:

that I'm in support of a podcast in 2.0 initiative because I'm an international

Martin Lindeskog:

project coordinator.

Martin Lindeskog:

I had that as an education.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also, in a way, a project is something that you start and then you finish and then you

Martin Lindeskog:

have a goals and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

But initiative is that it's never in a way

Martin Lindeskog:

ending and it's already in the beginning, but it has a great history and tradition or

Martin Lindeskog:

whatever experience to build on.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now it's interesting to see is it open, is

Martin Lindeskog:

it closed? What's RSS and whatnot?

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, the listeners don't really care.

Martin Lindeskog:

But if we explain how important it is for the

Martin Lindeskog:

future and the opportunity so that's why I want to listen now, when I know where it is on

Martin Lindeskog:

season one or two.

Martin Lindeskog:

On. Sam said when you talked because I had a

Martin Lindeskog:

short introduction, a solar show about Pod fans.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I also had a demonstration with Sam, and he was very nice and going through the whole

Martin Lindeskog:

thing, and I was asking all my dumb questions.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, sam is great.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now I updated it.

Martin Lindeskog:

So there I really when I saw that, I thought,

Martin Lindeskog:

wow, this onboarding, both regular listeners could earn satoshis, then could so called cash

Martin Lindeskog:

out whatnot but especially if they could support and get into it and you could then

Martin Lindeskog:

discover new podcast and is this gamification in a positive way?

Martin Lindeskog:

So you have really fought about that.

Martin Lindeskog:

But of course, again, I said that another

Martin Lindeskog:

place I fought that about Pod Chaser.

Martin Lindeskog:

I really liked that idea and I interviewed one

Martin Lindeskog:

of the co founders there.

Martin Lindeskog:

But now when I think about myself, how often

Martin Lindeskog:

do I log in on Pod Chaser? But I still like it very much because

Martin Lindeskog:

everything that I have listed as a co host or producer or whatever I'm listed.

Martin Lindeskog:

So then I could show I have a profile here, I have both a content creator profile and I have

Martin Lindeskog:

a user profile.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now they are bought by this big Swedish

Martin Lindeskog:

ACOs that have a player back in the day.

Martin Lindeskog:

Now they don't have it anymore.

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh, they don't?

Martin Lindeskog:

No, I haven't that's a story for itself.

Martin Lindeskog:

But we could talk about that, maybe offline my ideas about why they did that because it's

Martin Lindeskog:

again more power to you, Martin, because it's not easy to do an app.

Martin Mouritzen:

That is certainly true, but we will.

Martin Lindeskog:

See how it will turn out with podcast because I think it's a really

Martin Lindeskog:

neat idea, but again, it is will you do it on a daily basis and what could you use it for?

Martin Lindeskog:

And with Pod fans that you could earn something from it by being active.

Martin Lindeskog:

I really see that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, friendly competition.

Martin Lindeskog:

I mean, Pod Chasers say now owned by ACOs that they are for so called this open thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now we'll see and they are even I think in this standard podcast project, whatever it's

Martin Lindeskog:

called.

Martin Lindeskog:

So we'll see.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I like again what outspoken Adam and Dave, they say what they think.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I love that.

Martin Mouritzen:

A lot of the bigger hosting companies, they're

Martin Mouritzen:

great.

Martin Mouritzen:

But it's the same with Apple podcast and

Martin Mouritzen:

Spotify.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think there are probably engineers there or

Martin Mouritzen:

product managers or designers that would like to make some of these things that we are

Martin Mouritzen:

doing.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I know that as soon as a company reaches a

Martin Mouritzen:

certain size, it becomes almost impossible to make something new and fun quickly.

Martin Mouritzen:

It becomes almost like designed by a committee in a way.

Martin Lindeskog:

I wonder why Google Podcast didn't do anything more.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because they have that philosophy so called like Gmail was come up with an employee that

Martin Lindeskog:

worked on his own project and why shouldn't they?

Martin Lindeskog:

But it's something that is I don't know, they have some issues there, but potentially they

Martin Lindeskog:

should have been able to do it.

Martin Lindeskog:

But what I like is lately this wordpress.org

Martin Lindeskog:

and this Matt Woolenweg, this foundation has bought Pocketcast, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

I didn't know that actually.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, and this is pretty popular app both by Apple users but also

Martin Lindeskog:

Android users.

Martin Lindeskog:

And they had their premium feature and they

Martin Lindeskog:

say that they are into this and want to go there.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that could be really because they have maybe a few percentage.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, as I said, one of our podcasts, the secular Foxhole, this Op free thing that we

Martin Lindeskog:

added, John spurl thing at the recent period fountain was on the top list together with

Martin Lindeskog:

podverse.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I want to see Pod friend value too, and

Martin Lindeskog:

everyone I do too.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it doesn't have to take much.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you decide yourself and you could see that the different podcast apps could be used

Martin Lindeskog:

for different things.

Martin Lindeskog:

So, if you have time, we will do some quick

Martin Lindeskog:

and hard questions here about the journalistic thing, the w's, who, what, when, where and

Martin Lindeskog:

why.

Martin Lindeskog:

And we have talked about you as a person, but

Martin Lindeskog:

who are you as a developer? Would you say what kind of type or again, why

Martin Lindeskog:

do you do this kind of thing?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so I started programming when I was like, what?

Martin Mouritzen:

Twelve or something on my dad's computer and started early making like I think my first

Martin Mouritzen:

project was a web chat, actually with a frame that refreshed every now and again.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I honestly did use Commodore and Amiga.

Martin Mouritzen:

No. So that was actually when the internet

Martin Mouritzen:

launched.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think my first programming was on Dos.

Martin Mouritzen:

It was like bad files in Basic.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then as soon as the internet came, I

Martin Mouritzen:

started to learn a bit of Pearl and that's what I made the first web chat in.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I think I probably made one of Denmark's first social media platforms.

Martin Mouritzen:

It was called Trendy DK and it was even like, promoted in the TV.

Martin Lindeskog:

Did you do a good exit? And laughed all the way to the bank.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I wish I made the worst kind of exit possible.

Martin Mouritzen:

And that was I had a really popular website and I was, what, 15 years old or something,

Martin Mouritzen:

and I had this idea for an amazing version 2.0.

Martin Mouritzen:

And what I did was that I made a new front page on Trend DK that said, stay tuned,

Martin Mouritzen:

version two is coming soon.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I actually turned off the old website

Martin Mouritzen:

because I wanted it to make like, okay, a really big splash.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then version two took forever to build.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then once I was ready, of course, the

Martin Mouritzen:

users had forgotten all about it.

Martin Mouritzen:

There were quite a few loyal people and some

Martin Mouritzen:

that even said, like, hey, we found each other and started dating because of you.

Martin Mouritzen:

That was cool.

Martin Mouritzen:

But it never gotten around to be as popular in

Martin Mouritzen:

the start.

Martin Mouritzen:

No. Then I transitioned into building some

Martin Mouritzen:

software for actual businesses and enterprise, and I was lucky to get some of the biggest

Martin Mouritzen:

companies in Denmark as a client.

Martin Mouritzen:

It was mostly for businesses.

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, exclusively.

Martin Mouritzen:

But it was a content management system, so it

Martin Mouritzen:

also had a lot of consumer facing parts to it.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I learned a lot about usability and design

Martin Mouritzen:

and stuff.

Martin Mouritzen:

It went from just me until I think we were

Martin Mouritzen:

1415 people.

Martin Mouritzen:

I like to say it went really well until it

Martin Mouritzen:

didn't because the market just got absolutely saturated.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I would say during those years, it was over 15 years, I learned a lot about how you

Martin Mouritzen:

can spend a lot of time developing something that then no one ends up using, or how some

Martin Mouritzen:

things you develop that might only take a few hours, everyone uses.

Martin Mouritzen:

And that's what I use now in my career as a product manager.

Martin Mouritzen:

So in my day to day work, I don't program anymore, but then I program every single

Martin Mouritzen:

evening at home with Pot Friend.

Martin Mouritzen:

So what kind of developer am I?

Martin Mouritzen:

I'm the running fast with scissors, but still wanting to make something really solid and

Martin Mouritzen:

user friendly.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's actually a little bit against how I

Martin Mouritzen:

normally do it to release something that I feel is unfinished, which I did here with the

Martin Mouritzen:

Podfin 2.0.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I just felt like I need something out

Martin Mouritzen:

there instead of saying next.

Martin Lindeskog:

Week, next week, in a way, whatever we think about, like Facebook

Martin Lindeskog:

nowadays, that's how they do it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also, this spaghetti method, they throw it on

Martin Lindeskog:

the wall and see if it still this poke thing is there, but.

Martin Mouritzen:

Who, it's just hidden.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's great.

Martin Lindeskog:

So what you're doing, we have talked about

Martin Lindeskog:

that programming and what Pod Friend is, if you would tell a new podcast listener, what is

Martin Lindeskog:

Pod Friend?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I mean, Pod Friend is a podcasting app where you can go in and you

Martin Mouritzen:

can start listening to audio dramas and documentaries and.

Martin Mouritzen:

Coaching podcasts you can find everything audio related there just with a quick search

Martin Mouritzen:

and then you can start listening and then what I usually say is great about Podfriend, or

Martin Mouritzen:

will be now once I have the desktop and the mobile app is exactly that.

Martin Mouritzen:

If you want to listen on a mobile phone like while you commute or walk the dog or mowing

Martin Mouritzen:

the lawn, then you use the mobile app and then if you want to listen to podcasts while at

Martin Mouritzen:

work, then you can download the desktop app and then you can continue exactly where you

Martin Mouritzen:

left off.

Martin Mouritzen:

And that's also the version one had some of it

Martin Mouritzen:

but not great synchronization and I could just see that I found like a niche there.

Martin Mouritzen:

The most users of Podfriend were actually using the desktop version which was quite

Martin Mouritzen:

surprising because almost none of the popular apps have well, okay, I say that but of course

Martin Mouritzen:

Apple Podcast have it and Spotify, but a lot of the indie apps, they don't have a desktop

Martin Mouritzen:

version.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I felt like I hit some kind of niche there

Martin Mouritzen:

and I hope to use that a bit more.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I like the app also, but I also like to listen and log in on a web

Martin Lindeskog:

browser in order to do other things at the same time.

Martin Lindeskog:

And also that have been pretty popular because some of the apps, like Apple Podcast, they

Martin Lindeskog:

take some time to start and also Spotify, even if you have a new computer, it's like starting

Martin Lindeskog:

to scrolling in the background.

Martin Lindeskog:

It takes so long time and it's very clean and

Martin Lindeskog:

neat.

Martin Lindeskog:

But where you also have this do you want to

Martin Lindeskog:

say and we probably do a follow up with that, this chat thing but also how we could you said

Martin Lindeskog:

about mastodon in the long run to continue a Fred with a chat that you could be searched

Martin Lindeskog:

and you could be found.

Martin Lindeskog:

For me, it's a bit mind blowing.

Martin Lindeskog:

If it will work.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's the old good old days about blog comments

Martin Lindeskog:

in a positive way and if that will work and I know it's lots of technical thing but not if

Martin Lindeskog:

but when it works it will be amazing.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because then what?

Martin Lindeskog:

You are putting in like a curator or like a lurker or a commenter.

Martin Lindeskog:

That could be something worth also for the conversation, as I like the expression adding

Martin Lindeskog:

your two cent to the conversation.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I think it's just another way.

Martin Lindeskog:

You have done a neat way with the bubbles and so it almost like it

Martin Lindeskog:

looks like this, right? iPhone chat with the bubbles.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

And of course that's on purpose that I want it

Martin Mouritzen:

to look like a chat.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's the transcript you're talking about.

Martin Lindeskog:

There once we yeah, that's even better in a way.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

So how do you set that up, the transcript?

Martin Lindeskog:

Is it when you log in on the web also or is it that you have to download the app.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, you can actually use the web but right now we're reading it from the

Martin Mouritzen:

RSS feed.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's only from the podcast that has the

Martin Mouritzen:

transcript.

Martin Mouritzen:

And in the future I actually talked to Sam

Martin Mouritzen:

about this in the Pod News Weekly that I would love the idea of people being able to, let's

Martin Mouritzen:

say, boost Pod friend and then we would automatically generate the transcript.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I heard the next day that Fountain already did that or in the new version.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's really interesting and I didn't know that Fountain had that planned.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I think we're getting a lot of the same ideas and it also just shows that it's such a

Martin Mouritzen:

field where innovation is just happening so fast.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because I see the transcript even if it's not 100% right and it could have

Martin Lindeskog:

a hard time to if I say Linda Scoogum your name, last name, for example.

Martin Mouritzen:

Exactly.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then of course, is it worth to go in and change this if you can?

Martin Lindeskog:

Or as I'm using all the two when I'm doing editing and post production, they have a

Martin Lindeskog:

really neat transcript service but you can't do so much you upload these what is calling

Martin Lindeskog:

SRT file because that's what I think it's working.

Martin Lindeskog:

But you could have text also, and others but it is lots of work into this and it will

Martin Lindeskog:

evolve over time and then you will see if the market will in one way or another pay for it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because it could be accessibility, you could be searchable, but also you have to do it like

Martin Lindeskog:

similar with this chapter thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

We do it for one podcast called Presentation

Martin Lindeskog:

Skills Q and A because we have a short podcast format where like five to maximum ten minutes

Martin Lindeskog:

and choose maybe four, five, six images and that's doable.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I am so impressed.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course they have help with no agenda and

Martin Lindeskog:

others but to do all these transcript and chapters but lots of work to do.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, and you can see that's really the power of building a community

Martin Mouritzen:

around your podcast.

Martin Mouritzen:

I know that it's DREB.

Martin Mouritzen:

Scott that typically does it for both.

Martin Lindeskog:

Noah and Jen and he gets a bit of a splitters but he's very good at

Martin Lindeskog:

sending Boostograms also and competing.

Martin Lindeskog:

He put me off on this big top list on

Martin Lindeskog:

Fountain.

Martin Lindeskog:

I think one time I was almost winning

Martin Lindeskog:

something.

Martin Lindeskog:

They had these giveaways.

Martin Mouritzen:

That'S funny.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I have a theory that he's sending more

Martin Mouritzen:

than he's receiving.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, I'm here too, but it's all good because it will come back to you and

Martin Lindeskog:

it's very nice in a friendly way, marketing that you do it and you get the connection.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I really like that you have done that.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I definitely have to check out the

Martin Lindeskog:

transcript because if it's in a neat way both accessibility, but also in a neat way, if you

Martin Lindeskog:

want to search for something like when I'm now doing clips, because that's what I like with

Martin Lindeskog:

podverse and a fountain, then you could search for the transcript.

Martin Lindeskog:

When did I say when did I send this boost Togram?

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you could do this ego boosting by yourself but also you're adding something to

Martin Lindeskog:

the conversation.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you could turn out on Twitter.

Martin Lindeskog:

Whatnot? And I think that's pretty so I did that

Martin Lindeskog:

recently on the latest episode of this victim important for real.

Martin Lindeskog:

Then my cos corin she said this should be a clip of it because it's like a teaser or

Martin Lindeskog:

trailer of episode.

Martin Lindeskog:

I think you should listen to the whole thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course.

Martin Lindeskog:

But if you do it in a nice way it could be

Martin Lindeskog:

like I think of you maybe you should listen to this episode.

Martin Lindeskog:

Here is a short 1 minute clip, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

And this technology to do that again, somebody has to do it, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I definitely also want to add for example

Martin Mouritzen:

clips to Podfriend.

Martin Mouritzen:

We also have in the podcasting 2.0 there is a

Martin Mouritzen:

tag for like a clip that's a trailer or something.

Martin Mouritzen:

That's definitely also something.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's like there are so many ideas and stuff.

Martin Mouritzen:

You're talking about a roadmap earlier.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like I have a thing called a trello board

Martin Mouritzen:

where you have a little almost virtual cart for each task and I think there is over 1000

Martin Mouritzen:

items on that board with just ideas.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I definitely will not run out anytime soon.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, that's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

So when we come to the when also, I mean when you are doing this and you

Martin Lindeskog:

had said that it's like a side thing and then you hustle but also a passion project and you

Martin Lindeskog:

get like a kick off it.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's great.

Martin Lindeskog:

And where we know it's like in Denmark and Copenhagen, do you get lots of feedback around

Martin Lindeskog:

the world? Like input and you got context and connections

Martin Lindeskog:

by doing this?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I do.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, I typically get a lot of feedback when

Martin Mouritzen:

I do a new release and people try it out and then like day to day I will get a lot well,

Martin Mouritzen:

no, actually that's wrong.

Martin Mouritzen:

When I do a new release I'll get a lot of

Martin Mouritzen:

feedback from people that just try it and then it balances out.

Martin Mouritzen:

So in the normal time then I'll get a lot more feedback about the everyday experience from

Martin Mouritzen:

those people that use it more as like an everyday thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because I'm doing it for my own reasons also because I seen it.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then I understood your situation in a way and then I heard the good news and we will end

Martin Lindeskog:

on that note.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also how we got to know each other a bit more

Martin Lindeskog:

so that I thought was neat that you oh, now I want to test again when you are doing this new

Martin Lindeskog:

version.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then you could work not in the disguise or

Martin Lindeskog:

hide, but you could work behind the scenes.

Martin Lindeskog:

I know like a ringer.

Martin Lindeskog:

That was one of the first apps that you could have several guests on a podcast, on audio,

Martin Lindeskog:

and that's lots of technology in order to work, right?

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, but on their app they haven't updated for a long time, but they do with small things

Martin Lindeskog:

in order to make it more stable the whole time.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, it could be enough to have like one bad review and then others are coming,

Martin Lindeskog:

catching up, so to speak.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then you could also be happy with we have

Martin Lindeskog:

found our market, now we have found our audience and our client base.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's good also because it's yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

What I could see was that before I took the break from podcasting, I

Martin Mouritzen:

could listen to a lot of podcasts and then they would say like, oh, this boost is from

Martin Mouritzen:

this person through pot friend.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then when I hold that year break during

Martin Mouritzen:

that year it would still come and then at the end of the year it would start to drop off

Martin Mouritzen:

like then it was all potverse and fountain.

Martin Mouritzen:

I was like, if I had just been able to develop

Martin Mouritzen:

that whole year, it would have been such an amazing app.

Martin Mouritzen:

But sometimes you don't have that luxury.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I definitely hope to it's what you said,

Martin Mouritzen:

like the friendly competition.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think all the smaller apps, we steal ideas

Martin Mouritzen:

from each other.

Martin Mouritzen:

We see what's working or borrow ideas or

Martin Mouritzen:

getting.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

What is the quote that great artists copy, no good artists copy but amazing artists steal or

Martin Mouritzen:

something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, as long as you give credit, that credit is due.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I think that's important.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's the why thing here also when you

Martin Lindeskog:

have this journalistic thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So again, I think probably guess the answer,

Martin Lindeskog:

but why are you doing this?

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, so first of all, there's the American Express and dog fooding.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like using your own product.

Martin Lindeskog:

I say that also eating your own dog food.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, and I definitely to do that.

Martin Mouritzen:

I use podfriend myself.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then when I'm suddenly like, oh, I wish it

Martin Mouritzen:

could do that, it's like, well I can make it do that because I'm the developer and that's

Martin Mouritzen:

awesome to have that freedom.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I guess there is still this small pipe

Martin Mouritzen:

dream that at some point it could make it big, at some point I could make it good enough that

Martin Mouritzen:

I could get that one percentage of listeners or something.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's good that you are now saying it on these small podcasts.

Martin Lindeskog:

You never know, you could exactly come back five years later and say that because it's not

Martin Lindeskog:

an impossible thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

It is point, whatever.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then it's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

As I said.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, we can see that.

Martin Mouritzen:

Of course Apple podcasts have a big.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it's like a default on default because it's already on your phone.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

But you can't for example, say that about

Martin Mouritzen:

Spotify.

Martin Mouritzen:

They started from nothing, but they had.

Martin Lindeskog:

A huge advantage with the music app.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, but I mean back in the days with music they started from nothing,

Martin Mouritzen:

right? True, of course, yes.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then transition into podcasting and they had that step but.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also they got support from the record industry.

Martin Lindeskog:

I mean they saved the record industry from a pirate base and others.

Martin Mouritzen:

That is true.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, that's the backstory and it's fascinating.

Martin Mouritzen:

Story but there were probably ten other companies that were trying

Martin Mouritzen:

to do something like it and someone has to win.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think with the podcasting apps there's so much potential but you also have to be

Martin Mouritzen:

really good if you want users that just listen to some audio drama to actually change from

Martin Mouritzen:

let's say Apple podcast to something else.

Martin Mouritzen:

You have to provide something unique.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think right now we do have the 2.0 features and that's enough for some like that

Martin Mouritzen:

they can support users, that they can read chapters and transcripts but I think for the

Martin Mouritzen:

majority of users then we have to do something really unique and probably in the discovery

Martin Mouritzen:

realm like how people find podcasts.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's at least my gut feeling and that's

Martin Mouritzen:

why I'm moving Pod friend a bit.

Martin Mouritzen:

And also I think Fountain actually has it

Martin Mouritzen:

right about also going the social route.

Martin Mouritzen:

That's definitely also something that I'll be

Martin Mouritzen:

looking into because I think discoverability and social.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then your friends will say hey, have you tried this podcasting app?

Martin Mouritzen:

Then you can see what I listen to and stuff.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, because that's actually one thing that I

Martin Mouritzen:

do get a lot of questions from my friends like oh, I want to listen to a new podcast, can't

Martin Mouritzen:

you recommend something good? It's like it would be great if I just through

Martin Mouritzen:

Podfriend just could say and send it to them as recommendations.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's definitely something that I want in a way.

Martin Lindeskog:

And in a way they maybe don't need it because that's not their business.

Martin Lindeskog:

But they tried a social called Pling or Plig or whatever and that didn't turn.

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh yeah, I remember that.

Martin Mouritzen:

That was mostly for music, right?

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, but still if you use the app you could see your friends what they

Martin Lindeskog:

are listening to but it's not before you could follow artists directly and so on but they

Martin Lindeskog:

have thought that also but with Spotify it is about the whole thing about creating list and

Martin Lindeskog:

sharing list and party, whatever.

Martin Lindeskog:

So they have been good at that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Again is this battle of ideas you could say do they have an agenda, what do they really do?

Martin Lindeskog:

Let's talk about that and let's have conversation, even debate discourse and also

Martin Lindeskog:

get out there talking about that because I think that's interesting what's playing out

Martin Lindeskog:

here.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's interesting and talking about that

Martin Lindeskog:

why also but also where you are, do you know podcastconsult?

Martin Lindeskog:

DK Corinhurg, an old one of earliest podcasters out there.

Martin Lindeskog:

I don't know her actually or she still probably have a studio in Copenhagen and I met

Martin Lindeskog:

her when I visited there and she's very nice person and great podcaster and she has like a

Martin Lindeskog:

podcast shop selling equipment and so on.

Martin Mouritzen:

I did go and meet the people.

Martin Lindeskog:

Behind the Hindenburg and it's fascinating the name Hindenburg crashed,

Martin Lindeskog:

but that's a very good program.

Martin Lindeskog:

But for me it was in a way overkill.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I had this $1 version.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then of course you have to upgrade if you

Martin Lindeskog:

do all the bells and whistles.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then I was so happy about when Ollie Two

Martin Lindeskog:

was coming around with Colin Gray, that is a professional podcaster and have podcast

Martin Lindeskog:

service and all this around and also content creator for a long time.

Martin Lindeskog:

He written long blog post and article and guides and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And when he saw this that not everyone is studio technician or sound engineer or know

Martin Lindeskog:

how to use GarageBand or Audacity.

Martin Lindeskog:

That is not so called in my view.

Martin Lindeskog:

Use a friend.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course he's only learning how to learn

Martin Lindeskog:

about it, but hinburg.

Martin Mouritzen:

It actually reminds me but before this show, this is the first time I

Martin Mouritzen:

used this microphone for a podcast.

Martin Mouritzen:

And before the show, to set some of the

Martin Mouritzen:

settings, I called up one of my coworkers and I was like okay, how does it sound now?

Martin Mouritzen:

Okay, let me just like and what about now? And then we found a good setting, knock on

Martin Mouritzen:

wood.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I have this roder that I like and like the style.

Martin Lindeskog:

But again, I don't know if it's exactly the right settings and so on, but you have to test

Martin Lindeskog:

and you have and of course we shiny gadgets.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's probably one microphone out there.

Martin Lindeskog:

Martin, that's your name on it but you haven't found it yet.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then again it's just do it also, as Nike is saying, to start and that's what I like

Martin Lindeskog:

also.

Martin Mouritzen:

Exactly.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's great too.

Martin Lindeskog:

And we have this with Copenhagen is CPH the

Martin Lindeskog:

airport but in Gotenberg it's got so got milk.

Martin Lindeskog:

Have you heard about that expression?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's something to think about.

Martin Lindeskog:

And talking about that.

Martin Lindeskog:

We have talked about drinks and beverages and

Martin Lindeskog:

whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

It was a funny and that of course was this

Martin Lindeskog:

really live thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I think that was kosher to do.

Martin Lindeskog:

But we were playing lots of music at one episode with Adam the DJ.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

And we were trying to get into the boosting and this too unlimited no

Martin Lindeskog:

Limit song.

Martin Lindeskog:

That was fun.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I have had several.

Martin Lindeskog:

Again what I want to tell artists that I have

Martin Lindeskog:

had as guests, like Rosala, for example, and others, I have had, like ten different artists

Martin Lindeskog:

now on my ego net cost.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it's interesting to hear about their story

Martin Lindeskog:

and career, but also how to make a living, the concert merchandise, and also how to get paid

Martin Lindeskog:

by when they are streaming and the challenges there.

Martin Lindeskog:

Probably it has to be, as Adam is saying, its own app, in a way.

Martin Lindeskog:

Again, as you say, it's hard to mix and match, but it could be built with the same

Martin Lindeskog:

technology.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I do plan to make have music in Podfriend as well, but I plan to have

Martin Mouritzen:

it where you switch it.

Martin Mouritzen:

Now I go into music mode or now I go into

Martin Mouritzen:

podcast mode.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I do believe you're right, if I wanted to

Martin Mouritzen:

make sure it was the most successful thing possible, I would make it its own app.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's definitely the right way to go.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think Steven is going the right way with

Martin Mouritzen:

making the Ellen Beats.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think he just needs a little bit of help

Martin Mouritzen:

from a designer that could really put a nice skin on it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah. And you said it because I'm not the designer, but I could see

Martin Lindeskog:

what I see.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, it's what you have in your mind.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that could be good, like a focus group and

Martin Lindeskog:

bounce things back and forth and get this positive constructive feedback.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I think that's interesting with the split what you could do.

Martin Lindeskog:

So again, it's to reach out and I like what Adam is often saying that and also Dave, also

Martin Lindeskog:

how could you help? So that could be now we have been chatting for

Martin Lindeskog:

a long time and I've been babbling.

Martin Lindeskog:

So is it how could I help you and how could

Martin Lindeskog:

listener help you with Pod Friend and others and anything else that you want to end on as

Martin Lindeskog:

an end note?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I mean anyone can definitely help just by using it and giving

Martin Mouritzen:

feedback.

Martin Mouritzen:

I have people that ask me, hey, is it okay if

Martin Mouritzen:

I send you an email with an idea I have? And I'm like, yes, I love ideas because that

Martin Mouritzen:

also shows what people are thinking about, how they're using the app, what they're thinking

Martin Mouritzen:

it should be able to do.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, I can't promise that I will implement

Martin Mouritzen:

each and every idea, but I will definitely take it into account.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then how else can you help? You can help spread the word, like let other

Martin Mouritzen:

people know that something like podcasting 2.0 apps actually exist.

Martin Mouritzen:

And it's not just Pod Friend, it's also all the other apps out there.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, that's great.

Martin Lindeskog:

Thanks again Martin, to coming on the show and

Martin Lindeskog:

nice talking to you.

Martin Lindeskog:

And we'll see how the live was going.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, it's with editing and post production and show notes and transcripts.

Martin Lindeskog:

So we'll see when we will be up on the air.

Martin Lindeskog:

But yeah, so if you have any input later on or

Martin Lindeskog:

something how we could work together here, you're more than welcome to also send me an

Martin Lindeskog:

email and we will continue our conversation.

Martin Lindeskog:

Thanks again for your time.

Martin Lindeskog:

It was great.

Martin Mouritzen:

Thanks a lot for having me.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, it was great.

Martin Mouritzen:

I had a lot of fun.

Martin Lindeskog:

And to talk to your partner about Tea also as an end note there.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yes.

Martin Lindeskog:

So thanks again, Martin.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now you have to wait for a second and I

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