Dive into the heart of sustainability with Andrea Zick, a trailblazer in the hospitality industry, as she unveils the intricate dance of creating a sustainable future without sacrificing the essence of luxury dining. This episode is a journey through the lens of a former chef turned sustainability champion, offering a fresh perspective on the challenges and triumphs of embedding sustainability into the fabric of the hospitality industry.

Why Listen:

If you're passionate about the future of hospitality and the planet, this episode is a must-listen. Andrea Zick, with her rich background in nutrition, health, and a deep-rooted connection to the environment, shares invaluable insights into transforming the hospitality industry into a beacon of sustainability. From the importance of empathy and communication in driving change to practical steps for reducing food waste and embracing regenerative practices, this episode is packed with inspiration, practical advice, and a vision for a more sustainable and inclusive industry. Whether you're a seasoned hospitality professional or just starting your sustainability journey, Andrea's story and insights will empower you to make a positive impact.

Key Points of Interest:

1. Andrea Zick's Journey: From her early exposure to gardening and understanding the planet's influence on us, to leading the Oxo Tower Restaurant to win prestigious sustainability awards, Andrea's journey is a testament to the power of ancestral knowledge and a passion for sustainability.
2. Defining Sustainability: Andrea offers a deeper understanding of sustainability, emphasizing the importance of dialogue, empathy, and experimentation within the business to improve practices affecting the environment, social governance, and profitability.
3. Empathy and Communication: Highlighting empathy and communication as crucial ingredients for successful sustainability projects, Andrea shares how these elements foster a culture of change and innovation.
4. Food Waste Reduction: Andrea discusses the practical steps taken by the Oxo Tower Restaurant to significantly reduce food waste, showcasing the importance of measuring waste, training staff, and involving all team members in sustainability efforts.
5. Sustainable Menu Development: The episode delves into the challenges and strategies of developing sustainable menus, including assessing current practices, envisioning a sustainable future, and creating transition plans tailored to each business.
6. Hospitality's Role in Sustainable Eating: Andrea explores how the hospitality industry can influence food systems and promote sustainable eating, emphasizing the need for understanding the source and production methods of food and drink.
7. Advice for Personal Sustainability Journeys: Andrea encourages listeners to stay curious, creative, and empathetic towards others' positions on sustainability, highlighting the importance of starting from where people are and building from there.

Conclusion:

This episode of Talking Hospitality not only sheds light on the critical role of sustainability in the hospitality industry but also serves as a beacon of hope and inspiration for professionals and enthusiasts alike. Andrea Zick's insights remind us that sustainability is not just a trend but a necessary evolution of the industry, driven by empathy, innovation, and a deep commitment to the planet and future generations. Join us in exploring these transformative ideas and take a step towards making a lasting impact in the world of hospitality.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Sustainability

01:12 Guest Introduction

02:10 Defining Sustainability in a Business Context

03:08 Importance of Communication and Empathy in Sustainability

04:29 Personal Inspiration for Sustainability

06:41 Developing Sustainable Menus

07:36 Food Waste Reduction

10:47 Challenges with Traditional Chefs and Sustainability

12:37 Hospitality Industry's Voice in Food Systems

14:04 UK Food Systems Centre for Doctoral Training

19:47 Disparity in Sustainability Goals

21:21 Advice for Personal Sustainability Journey

23:17 Quick Fire Round

26:24 Conclusion

Welcome to Talking Hospitality.

2

I'm Tracy Rashid.

3

And I'm Sarah Kettel Today's episode is a

hot topic, sustainability.

4

Sustainability is a critical concept that

focuses on meeting the needs of the

5

present without compromising the ability

of the future generations to meet their

6

own needs.

7

It encompasses environmental, social and

economic dimensions, aiming to create a

8

balanced and harmonious relationship

between society, the environment and the

9

economy.

10

And our guest today is right in the thick

of it.

11

Thanks for watching!

12

Since 2015, our guest Andrea Zick has been

working as a PA to the GM at the Oxo Tower

13

Restaurant Bar and Brasserie.

14

In this role, she's led the business to

win the accolade of Food Made Good

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Community Champion from the Sustainable

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She then went on to lead the Oxo Tower

Restaurant Bar and Brasserie to win the

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Most Sustainable Restaurant at the

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Green Michelin Star in 2021.

19

Welcome, Andrea.

20

We are so pleased to have you here as our

guest today.

21

How are you?

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I'm very well and it's wonderful to meet

you in person, I'd like to say, even

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though it's virtual.

24

So we can hear there's a lot of background

noise.

25

Where are you at the moment?

26

I'm actually at the restaurant.

27

I've taken basically an hour out of work

to meet you and to talk a little bit about

28

very much my personal views on

sustainability.

29

So not really representing the business

here in the conversation, but sharing

30

hopefully some insights of.

31

my journey in sustainability with others.

32

So now some of you might be thinking we've

all heard about sustainability, we know

33

what it is, we know it's a good thing, but

what does sustainability actually mean?

34

You obviously did a very good job in

explaining it, at least defining it in the

35

intro, which would have probably been how

I would have started.

36

And maybe I go one step further and say

what sustainability means for me in a

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business context.

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I would say what it really means is to

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go into dialogue with every person in the

business about if you like the practices

40

they are currently applying and

understanding how these practices may

41

influence these three dimensions you

mentioned.

42

The environment, social and governance, or

the people, the planet and the profit of

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the business.

44

And then literally exploring how their

practices, if they're influencing these

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things, could be improved, changed.

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and transitioned to something different.

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Yeah, that's definitely a bit more

elaborated than what we said as a

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definition of sustainability without a

doubt.

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I think communication is a core

ingredient.

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So as a previous chef, I always think of

things and recipes.

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Communication is one of the important

ingredients.

52

I think it's also trying to be empathetic

for the needs of everyone who's actually

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creating the change processes, because

sustainability ultimately is a

54

journey within that journey you are often

asking people to change the way they are

55

currently working or to apply change to

the business they are in, the system they

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are in.

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And that often requires, and that's really

another key ingredient, empathy and

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compassion for when things aren't that

straightforward.

59

And going back to the communication, it

isn't telling, it's literally a dialogue

60

which is very different to you need to do

this.

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And I would say sustainability projects

become more successful if consensus and

62

dialogue is the kind of starting point.

63

And then people are also going into a

place where they are willing to

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experiment.

65

And I always think I'm so lucky as a chef

back in my previous life.

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I always loved experimenting and being

creative.

67

So sustainability probably uses some of

that.

68

love for creation and being a little bit

of a maverick and trying things out.

69

Andrea, I love the fact that you're saying

that, you know, it's not just about what

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you're doing wrong, but it's that journey,

it's understanding it's changed.

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When there's people involved, that's never

the easiest thing to do.

72

It's so clear that you're passionate about

sustainability and what you do.

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But what inspired you?

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to get into that field, was it like a big

bang or was it like a slow process?

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How did you get into it?

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I wouldn't say it was a big bang.

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There's something I learned yesterday

called ancestral knowing.

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And ancestral knowing is kind of almost

the inherited knowledge we carry through

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our lives.

80

So as a child in my family, I was lucky

enough to be exposed to a garden and the

81

opportunity to grow things and to see how

things grow.

82

And that...

83

kind of almost planted the seed of

understanding the connection of how we

84

influence the planet, it influences us

back.

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So that's something which happened a long,

long time ago.

86

And then I studied nutrition and health.

87

At that point, I got really interested in

the question of world hunger, food

88

insecurity.

89

Then I got increasingly more conscious of,

feel like the limitations, the

90

environmental limitations of our planet.

91

When you then go down that rabbit hole and

you realize all there is environmental

92

limitations, you then also have to start

asking yourself what are the economic

93

limitations for a business if there's only

so much the planet can give.

94

And then there's maybe one other dimension

which got me there.

95

I'm a yogi and...

96

When you do yoga, you often connect

through the world in a lens where you fear

97

that everything is connected.

98

And I think that feeds into this idea of

sustainability as well.

99

Andrea, I know you just mentioned about

being fortunate enough to grow up with,

100

you know, seeing food grown in a garden.

101

And I was very much like that as well.

102

It's always been important to me to pass

it on to my children and understand about.

103

food wastage and the process and all those

kind of things that we should be very,

104

very conscious of.

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And we've heard very much about these

strategies such as farm to fork.

106

So how do you work with Oxo to develop

menus that really emphasize

107

sustainability?

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Whatever sustainability practices and

projects you want to implant, it's always

109

important to almost assess the present

first.

110

So talking to the team you are working in.

111

assessing what are we doing currently,

then ask yourself what's the future vision

112

and even with that future vision you want

to bring in the people who are working

113

with you because my vision might be very

different to your vision, right?

114

And unless we are kind of trying to create

a joint vision it will be really hard to

115

actually transition from A to B.

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And when you've created...

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basically the present and the future, you

can then think about what transition plans

118

you can take.

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And these transition plans will be very

different for different businesses.

120

So within the business we are working in,

it kind of feels like a dance.

121

We introduce something, we test it, we use

what feels right for our business, and

122

then remove the things which don't quite

feel right.

123

As an example, we've worked on food waste

reduction for quite a while.

124

We started this when the Sustainable

Restaurant Association launched something

125

called Food Waste Bad Pest and that was

linked to the organization called Rapids,

126

an NGO, and they tackle waste on a broader

scale, but food waste is one of the

127

things.

128

Really it started simple with us saying,

okay, we want to get an understanding of

129

how much food waste we are creating.

130

And then we started measuring and while we

started measuring, we learned about how

131

are we actually creating waste, in what

areas are we creating waste, who might be

132

the best person to tell us what waste is

created, then who are the people who might

133

have the biggest influence in reducing

this waste.

134

We started it this way and then...

135

we went on to a journey of learning that

was supported by then eventually signing

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up to the Guardians of Grubb training.

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A whole bunch of people in the business

trained on the Guardians of Grubb training

138

that allowed us then to kind of connect

front of house and back of house on this

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kind of mission to produce food based.

140

I've done the the wrap Guardians of the

Grubb training as well and it's really

141

inspirational and as a chef in the kitchen

you don't really think about what are the

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what are the front of house doing and how

how do they.

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Like you fill in a questionnaire at the

beginning and one of the first questions

144

is, who are the people in your restaurant?

145

Who are your key stakeholders?

146

And it does actually go through front of

house.

147

And that's sort of made me go, oh, oh

yeah, okay, it does have an impact.

148

And I really hadn't thought about it

before.

149

So for anyone who's not done Guardians of

the Grub training, I would suggest doing

150

it for all your staff.

151

It's really good, really insightful.

152

I'm very pleased to say that our ambition

to reduce food waste by half since we

153

started the measuring is on track.

154

We still kind of see spikes and troughs,

so it's something we certainly want to

155

continue looking at.

156

But we are certainly on track achieving

that, and that's just such an amazing

157

achievement.

158

And this wouldn't be possible if we

wouldn't have brought in different team

159

members, even if you think there's

sometimes invisible places.

160

So...

161

our sales team and our reservations teams

are just as important in this process

162

because if for whatever reason they are

missing to update the bookings, then we

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potentially overproduce.

164

If they are not putting in the information

of someone being an allergen in events,

165

again, we probably produce food, but it's

not edible by these guests.

166

So it becomes like a network operation and

you really want to bring in.

167

as many people as possible, but equally

you need to streamline it so you can

168

actually start progressing.

169

I have a question for you both actually

being chefs.

170

There's a very much like background of,

you know, making sure that something is as

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square as possible, even if it was

originally round.

172

So there's wastage and things that, you

presentation is obviously very important,

173

especially the more high end you go with,

with the cuisine.

174

So is it more difficult to bring those

types of chefs, especially maybe the old

175

school, along the sustainability journey?

176

In weird ways, that's maybe something I'm

exploring in my PhD research to a level.

177

It's not the main focus, but it's somewhat

generational difference between how we see

178

good food to sum it up.

179

So I think if you speak to someone who's

going to culinary schools now with the

180

vice and sustainability conversation and

messaging, I think there's probably more

181

of an awareness that good food.

182

has to be linked to that as well.

183

Whereas traditionally, I would say, chefs

probably associated good food with taste

184

and indulgence and hedonism.

185

And I'm not saying that this isn't true

still.

186

I think we are almost adding another

dimension now into how we want to create

187

food and kind of taking that on board.

188

What do you think, Sarah?

189

I think previously where you'd have seen

perhaps, you know, the good example is the

190

case of fish, right, where

191

previously, you might have seen a piece

cut off the side or a piece cut off the

192

end to square the shape.

193

And that would have been considered waste.

194

But you really wouldn't see that now.

195

And you know, even things like fish skin,

it's, it's become cool to eat fish skin

196

crackling.

197

Yeah, like skin would have been discarded

before.

198

Can you still make beautiful food, which

is a direct to your eyes, not over

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trimming?

200

Yeah, of course you can.

201

And I think people have moved towards

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So, Andrea, how can the hospitality

industry have a bigger voice in food

203

systems for sustainable eating?

204

It's a big question.

205

And the reason why it's a big question is

that it's because hospitality is so

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varied.

207

So I give you an example.

208

If you're a hotel or an events company,

the impact of your...

209

business will sit in a different area than

a restaurant.

210

If we are just looking at greenhouse gas

emissions and that of course isn't the

211

only dimensions we might be considering

within sustainability, a hotel's

212

greenhouse gas emissions are likely to be

much higher in the transport of their

213

guests coming to the hotel proportionately

than maybe the food specifically.

214

Let's say if you're a hotel which just

does bed and breakfast, right?

215

You're already just by buying produce,

you're

216

costs are already lower on the food side.

217

So how a hotel will influence the

conversation around environmental

218

conversations will be slightly different

to maybe a restaurant.

219

Then again, with events, similar thing

with events, you're probably going to have

220

guests traveling in.

221

And that might also have a much, much

higher impact on the overall footprint the

222

business is generating.

223

For me, and that's kind of where I like to

say I'm a bit more specialized maybe.

224

I look at how food in particular, food and

drink impact the planet.

225

And that's because I work in a restaurant

and a lot of the certainly greenhouse gas

226

emissions and probably a lot of the other

environmental impacts are driven by the

227

food and drink we are buying.

228

I don't want to ignore that when we are

switching on the light, when we are

229

switching on the hops, that's what you

call in sustainability language, scope one

230

and two emissions, they play a role as

well.

231

But if you start looking at...

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where are the biggest impact of our

business?

233

They tend to sit in the things we are

buying and then selling, prospectively.

234

That means that understanding when we are

buying food, where it's coming from, how

235

it's being produced, is becoming

increasingly more important.

236

And then the next layer, and that's

certainly my view, when you're starting to

237

think about, okay, it's food and drink,

which has potentially the biggest impact

238

in the business, on the planet, then how

can we now

239

modulate the food and drink offer to

remove some of these impacts or reduce

240

some of these impacts and still deliver

the sort of experience our guests are

241

looking after.

242

They still want to eat luxuriously.

243

They still want to treat themselves coming

to the restaurant.

244

As a more practical example, if you come

to the restaurant at the moment, we sell

245

beef.

246

people love to treat themselves coming to

a restaurant and say, this is my one time

247

a year where I might actually treat

myself.

248

So they're probably going to order a beef

fillet.

249

It's one of our best sellers.

250

Now from sustainability point of view,

that's drama for me, because it's got one

251

of the highest impacts.

252

So removing it from the menu is probably

not an option at this moment in time.

253

Yeah, but what we can do is asking

ourselves, how can we actually get the

254

beef on the plate?

255

in the lowest impact version.

256

So asking ourselves, can we find a farmer

who farms the cutter in ways which are

257

more regenerative?

258

Can we consider maybe the size of the cut?

259

Is the way we are putting that leaf onto

the plate producing waste which is

260

unnecessary?

261

And can we reduce that waste around it,

for example?

262

So it's kind of asking ourselves, what are

the things we can influence by still

263

delivering what our guests are looking

for?

264

It's so insightful.

265

There's so much going on in the background

that as a consumer, you don't really

266

realize it's just a piece of meat, you

know, but there's so much that goes on

267

behind.

268

And you saying that there's like tears of

the kind of emissions has never even

269

crossed my mind before.

270

And the fact that restaurants or hotels

take ownership of their customers journey

271

footprint as well.

272

That's definitely news to me.

273

It's quite a responsibility.

274

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

275

I never.

276

To me, I wouldn't have thought that was

part of their responsibility, you know?

277

I would say there's still a little bit of

a debate around what proportion they

278

should be taking ownership of, because

there's a difference and this is when it

279

gets very technical.

280

So when you do life cycle analysis, which

is where you're trying to assess how much

281

greenhouse gas emissions or how much

impacts are going into a product, a

282

service, you make assumptions.

283

And is it right to assume that someone

traveling to the restaurant is only

284

coming to the restaurant for only meeting

the restaurant, only eating there, or

285

where they're on a journey already

somewhere and passing through.

286

Right?

287

So therefore, you then have to ask

yourself, do we need to challenge some of

288

these assumptions?

289

And that will vary again for each

business.

290

Yeah, that's a tough one.

291

A central London restaurant is probably

more likely in a position where someone is

292

passing through, whereas if I am a

destination restaurant in a beautiful

293

space,

294

In the countryside, it's less likely that

someone is passing through there, actually

295

making the journey specifically for that

restaurant.

296

Yeah.

297

Sarah asked you a question about the food

systems.

298

So can you tell us more about the UK Food

Systems Centre for doctoral training and

299

how you think the next generation of

doctors will approach diet advice?

300

So the UK Food Systems Centre for doctoral

training is where I'm currently doing my

301

PhD.

302

It's based in Greenwich and it's training

60 students in the UK food system.

303

And when we talk about the UK food system,

people often don't really quite know what

304

the food system is.

305

So the food system, as I would define it

as a PhD student, is basically everything

306

which is involved in getting food to our

table.

307

So that's the growing of the food,

transporting of the food, the processing,

308

the potentially storing of the food, the

further.

309

processing in a kitchen or in a

restaurant, then the distributing it and

310

then also the what happens after it.

311

So if there's food waste or if there's

waste or leftovers on the plate, what

312

happens to it afterwards?

313

That's part of it as well.

314

And the people I'm lucky enough to spend

time with, so the other doctoral students

315

and the lecturers and their supervisors,

they are all really, really keen on

316

understanding how can we shift this big...

317

beast if you like, to have better outcomes

for society, for the environment.

318

Students look at different things, so some

might be working purely on farming, some

319

might be looking at the logistics

processes, some might be interested in

320

things like nutritionally, what do we need

to start growing to make sure that in the

321

next generation we actually have healthier

diets and again that's a...

322

spongy term, what I define as healthy

might not be what other people define as

323

healthy.

324

What policies would we need to put in

place and what governance systems do we

325

need to put in place to actually have

different outcomes than we currently have.

326

That's really interesting that you talk a

lot about governance and having the

327

specialised area.

328

I think for most consumers when we think

about sustainability, we might have the

329

best intentions and we might have what I

would say are bigger aspirations for

330

sustainability.

331

the UK than we feel that our leaders do.

332

Do you feel there's a disparity there and

do you think that can ever be bridged?

333

The disparity lies in part in the

different goals government sets within

334

their agenda.

335

And that's really me kind of thinking out

loud.

336

The government needs to deliver on

economic outcomes, it needs to deliver on

337

public health outcomes, it needs to

deliver on environmental outcomes.

338

And what they're trying to do is they're

trying to deliver all that often in one or

339

two policies, which makes it really

difficult.

340

They also need to bring together what I

would call public consensus about what do

341

we define, what do we think is a healthy

diet, what would we say is a sustainable

342

diet.

343

And if we would just talk about what good

food means to each one of us, we probably

344

would have very different views of that.

345

And that's why it's often really difficult

to bring consensus between these two

346

things, because there's different opinions

and...

347

different values associated to different

aspects of the food system.

348

Yeah, that's amazing.

349

I will fess up here.

350

I did completely go off script there

because this is a subject that I'm very

351

passionate about and could talk about all

day.

352

So it's really interesting to hear your

thoughts on that.

353

But if we have any of our listeners who

are at the start of their own personal

354

sustainability journey, or even if they're

well into it, what's the one piece of

355

advice do you give them to stick with it

and just to keep going for the good of the

356

planet, for society, for the economy?

357

What can they do as an individual?

358

I think what keeps me going personally is

using creativity and being curious while

359

also wanting to understand someone else's

position within that.

360

So it's kind of being empathetic to the

people around you, trying to truly listen

361

what their needs are and then start from

where their needs sit and where they are

362

at and start building from there.

363

Because if you are not...

364

bringing in the people from the place they

are currently at, it's going to be really

365

difficult for you to get their support.

366

And sometimes maybe it isn't about getting

their support, maybe it's about you

367

supporting them.

368

Yeah, that's great advice.

369

And it definitely sounds like, you know,

it's not a one size fits all, which might

370

be why people think going on this journey

might be difficult.

371

But actually, when it's more personalised,

you're more connected and probably more

372

likely to stick to it as well.

373

As a hospitality person, it's...

374

It's a beautiful way to connect with

people on a very authentic level.

375

I've met some of the most interesting

people through this journey and sometimes

376

they've challenged me, but challenge isn't

a bad thing.

377

Challenge helps you to grow, to

transition, to change your own perceptions

378

of what's right and wrong.

379

Yeah, I think if you're thinking about

sustainability, it's bigger than yourself,

380

isn't it?

381

So it's not just about me, me, me.

382

You are thinking of the planet really and

everyone that's on it.

383

And it's a beautiful place to...

384

have a reason to connect because I won't

have all the answers.

385

Whereas if I bring other people's

knowledge and wisdom in, then I might get

386

the right answers or might find better

solutions.

387

Yes, it's time for Put the Copper Down,

Quick Fire Round question time.

388

The rules of the game, Andrea, is to

answer the questions with one word

389

answers.

390

Now we know that one word answers may be

tricky for those in hospitality, so let's

391

see how you get on.

392

We'll be judging your answer by speed,

succinctness and perhaps anything

393

arbitrary we choose to add.

394

At the end of the season, we will tally up

the scores from each of our guests and the

395

winner will receive.

396

Are you ready, Andrea?

397

Are you ready for what the prize is?

398

It's a £10 Amazon voucher.

399

So if you are ready, Andrea, let's begin.

400

Oh, yes, I'm ready.

401

So Andrea, if you were a flavour of ice

cream, what would you be?

402

Tutti frutti.

403

So thinking of, as an example, Christmas

and Easter, if you could create a new

404

holiday, what would it be called?

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World Peace Day.

406

What's the most unusual job you can

imagine yourself doing for a day?

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The first thing I was thinking of was

fire, a fire woman.

408

What is your go -to karaoke style?

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I hate karaoke.

410

Boo!

411

Do you run hot or cold?

412

Hot.

413

If you could have dinner with any

fictional character, who would it be?

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Fuhua from...

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the never -ending story.

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Andrea, what's the weirdest talent that

you have that not many people know about?

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I dress my clothes from inside out.

418

So if you could go to any place, real or

fictional, where would you go?

419

This sounds boring but I would stay at the

Tames.

420

So crisps, fried or baked?

421

Baked, as a nutritionist.

422

If you could switch lives with any

celebrity for a day, who would it be?

423

Greta Thunberg.

424

If you had the power to solve one global

issue, what would it be?

425

I'd start with world peace, I think all

the others would be easier to solve

426

afterwards.

427

If you could collaborate with any person,

living or dead, on a project, who would it

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be?

429

I would love to collaborate with George

Orwell.

430

I like it.

431

Fact or fiction?

432

Fiction.

433

We need more dreaming.

434

Imagine you wake up one day with the

ability to speak every language fluently.

435

How would you use this newfound skill?

436

To bring people together to overcome

tension and problems.

437

If your life had a theme song, Andrea,

that played every time you entered a room,

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what would it be?

439

The first one coming to mind is Staying

Alive.

440

What is your go -to dance move when no one

is watching?

441

The shimmy?

442

Beastenders or Coronation Street?

443

Holly Ox?

444

That's a bit younger, isn't it?

445

It's more our generation, to be fair.

446

Okay, this is a riddle.

447

I have keys but no locks.

448

I have space but no room.

449

You can enter but you can't go into the...

450

What am I?

451

A box.

452

What has a heart that doesn't beat?

453

A clock.

454

So your time is up, Andrea, and you made

it through.

455

So the answers for the final two questions

were the first one was keyboard.

456

I got that.

457

And the second one was artichoke.

458

OK, yeah, that's a good one.

459

I didn't get that.

460

So how do you think you scored?

461

Really poorly.

462

I'm not competitive like that.

463

I'm the worst person.

464

I always want the team to win.

465

Oh, well, we're competitive.

466

So, Senghor, do you want to tally up those

points?

467

I got 16.

468

Well, you got 16.

469

And, Andrea, you're going to have to stay

tuned to find out at the end of the season

470

if you've won our top of the range prize,

which I'm sure you're just dying to have.

471

Thank you, Andrea.

472

It's been great having you as a guest.

473

We know that our listeners will make use

of the experience device that you've

474

given.

475

Thank you also to our listeners for

joining us today.

476

Stay tuned for more insightful

conversations here on Talking Hospitality.

477

And we'd like to thank our brand partner,

Graphic Kitchen, you our listeners, our

478

guests and all of those who have supported

us.

479

Please check us out at talkinghospitality

.com for the latest gossip, episodes,

480

blogs and courses.

481

Wishing you well.

482

Thank you all for listening and stay

awesome.

483

Thanks for watching!