Dive into the heart of sustainability with Andrea Zick, a trailblazer in the hospitality industry, as she unveils the intricate dance of creating a sustainable future without sacrificing the essence of luxury dining. This episode is a journey through the lens of a former chef turned sustainability champion, offering a fresh perspective on the challenges and triumphs of embedding sustainability into the fabric of the hospitality industry.
Why Listen:
If you're passionate about the future of hospitality and the planet, this episode is a must-listen. Andrea Zick, with her rich background in nutrition, health, and a deep-rooted connection to the environment, shares invaluable insights into transforming the hospitality industry into a beacon of sustainability. From the importance of empathy and communication in driving change to practical steps for reducing food waste and embracing regenerative practices, this episode is packed with inspiration, practical advice, and a vision for a more sustainable and inclusive industry. Whether you're a seasoned hospitality professional or just starting your sustainability journey, Andrea's story and insights will empower you to make a positive impact.
Key Points of Interest:
Conclusion:
This episode of Talking Hospitality not only sheds light on the critical role of sustainability in the hospitality industry but also serves as a beacon of hope and inspiration for professionals and enthusiasts alike. Andrea Zick's insights remind us that sustainability is not just a trend but a necessary evolution of the industry, driven by empathy, innovation, and a deep commitment to the planet and future generations. Join us in exploring these transformative ideas and take a step towards making a lasting impact in the world of hospitality.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Sustainability
01:12 Guest Introduction
02:10 Defining Sustainability in a Business Context
03:08 Importance of Communication and Empathy in Sustainability
04:29 Personal Inspiration for Sustainability
06:41 Developing Sustainable Menus
07:36 Food Waste Reduction
10:47 Challenges with Traditional Chefs and Sustainability
12:37 Hospitality Industry's Voice in Food Systems
14:04 UK Food Systems Centre for Doctoral Training
19:47 Disparity in Sustainability Goals
21:21 Advice for Personal Sustainability Journey
23:17 Quick Fire Round
26:24 Conclusion
Welcome to Talking Hospitality.
2
:I'm Tracy Rashid.
3
:And I'm Sarah Kettel Today's episode is a
hot topic, sustainability.
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:Sustainability is a critical concept that
focuses on meeting the needs of the
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:present without compromising the ability
of the future generations to meet their
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:own needs.
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:It encompasses environmental, social and
economic dimensions, aiming to create a
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:balanced and harmonious relationship
between society, the environment and the
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:economy.
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:And our guest today is right in the thick
of it.
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:Thanks for watching!
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:Since 2015, our guest Andrea Zick has been
working as a PA to the GM at the Oxo Tower
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:Restaurant Bar and Brasserie.
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:In this role, she's led the business to
win the accolade of Food Made Good
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:Community Champion from the Sustainable
Restaurant Association in:
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:She then went on to lead the Oxo Tower
Restaurant Bar and Brasserie to win the
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:Most Sustainable Restaurant at the
National Restaurants Awards:
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:Green Michelin Star in 2021.
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:Welcome, Andrea.
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:We are so pleased to have you here as our
guest today.
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:How are you?
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:I'm very well and it's wonderful to meet
you in person, I'd like to say, even
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:though it's virtual.
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:So we can hear there's a lot of background
noise.
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:Where are you at the moment?
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:I'm actually at the restaurant.
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:I've taken basically an hour out of work
to meet you and to talk a little bit about
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:very much my personal views on
sustainability.
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:So not really representing the business
here in the conversation, but sharing
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:hopefully some insights of.
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:my journey in sustainability with others.
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:So now some of you might be thinking we've
all heard about sustainability, we know
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:what it is, we know it's a good thing, but
what does sustainability actually mean?
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:You obviously did a very good job in
explaining it, at least defining it in the
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:intro, which would have probably been how
I would have started.
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:And maybe I go one step further and say
what sustainability means for me in a
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:business context.
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:I would say what it really means is to
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:go into dialogue with every person in the
business about if you like the practices
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:they are currently applying and
understanding how these practices may
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:influence these three dimensions you
mentioned.
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:The environment, social and governance, or
the people, the planet and the profit of
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:the business.
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:And then literally exploring how their
practices, if they're influencing these
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:things, could be improved, changed.
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:and transitioned to something different.
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:Yeah, that's definitely a bit more
elaborated than what we said as a
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:definition of sustainability without a
doubt.
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:I think communication is a core
ingredient.
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:So as a previous chef, I always think of
things and recipes.
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:Communication is one of the important
ingredients.
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:I think it's also trying to be empathetic
for the needs of everyone who's actually
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:creating the change processes, because
sustainability ultimately is a
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:journey within that journey you are often
asking people to change the way they are
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:currently working or to apply change to
the business they are in, the system they
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:are in.
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:And that often requires, and that's really
another key ingredient, empathy and
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:compassion for when things aren't that
straightforward.
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:And going back to the communication, it
isn't telling, it's literally a dialogue
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:which is very different to you need to do
this.
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:And I would say sustainability projects
become more successful if consensus and
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:dialogue is the kind of starting point.
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:And then people are also going into a
place where they are willing to
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:experiment.
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:And I always think I'm so lucky as a chef
back in my previous life.
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:I always loved experimenting and being
creative.
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:So sustainability probably uses some of
that.
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:love for creation and being a little bit
of a maverick and trying things out.
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:Andrea, I love the fact that you're saying
that, you know, it's not just about what
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:you're doing wrong, but it's that journey,
it's understanding it's changed.
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:When there's people involved, that's never
the easiest thing to do.
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:It's so clear that you're passionate about
sustainability and what you do.
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:But what inspired you?
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:to get into that field, was it like a big
bang or was it like a slow process?
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:How did you get into it?
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:I wouldn't say it was a big bang.
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:There's something I learned yesterday
called ancestral knowing.
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:And ancestral knowing is kind of almost
the inherited knowledge we carry through
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:our lives.
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:So as a child in my family, I was lucky
enough to be exposed to a garden and the
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:opportunity to grow things and to see how
things grow.
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:And that...
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:kind of almost planted the seed of
understanding the connection of how we
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:influence the planet, it influences us
back.
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:So that's something which happened a long,
long time ago.
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:And then I studied nutrition and health.
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:At that point, I got really interested in
the question of world hunger, food
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:insecurity.
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:Then I got increasingly more conscious of,
feel like the limitations, the
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:environmental limitations of our planet.
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:When you then go down that rabbit hole and
you realize all there is environmental
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:limitations, you then also have to start
asking yourself what are the economic
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:limitations for a business if there's only
so much the planet can give.
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:And then there's maybe one other dimension
which got me there.
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:I'm a yogi and...
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:When you do yoga, you often connect
through the world in a lens where you fear
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:that everything is connected.
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:And I think that feeds into this idea of
sustainability as well.
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:Andrea, I know you just mentioned about
being fortunate enough to grow up with,
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:you know, seeing food grown in a garden.
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:And I was very much like that as well.
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:It's always been important to me to pass
it on to my children and understand about.
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:food wastage and the process and all those
kind of things that we should be very,
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:very conscious of.
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:And we've heard very much about these
strategies such as farm to fork.
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:So how do you work with Oxo to develop
menus that really emphasize
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:sustainability?
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:Whatever sustainability practices and
projects you want to implant, it's always
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:important to almost assess the present
first.
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:So talking to the team you are working in.
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:assessing what are we doing currently,
then ask yourself what's the future vision
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:and even with that future vision you want
to bring in the people who are working
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:with you because my vision might be very
different to your vision, right?
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:And unless we are kind of trying to create
a joint vision it will be really hard to
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:actually transition from A to B.
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:And when you've created...
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:basically the present and the future, you
can then think about what transition plans
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:you can take.
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:And these transition plans will be very
different for different businesses.
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:So within the business we are working in,
it kind of feels like a dance.
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:We introduce something, we test it, we use
what feels right for our business, and
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:then remove the things which don't quite
feel right.
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:As an example, we've worked on food waste
reduction for quite a while.
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:We started this when the Sustainable
Restaurant Association launched something
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:called Food Waste Bad Pest and that was
linked to the organization called Rapids,
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:an NGO, and they tackle waste on a broader
scale, but food waste is one of the
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:things.
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:Really it started simple with us saying,
okay, we want to get an understanding of
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:how much food waste we are creating.
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:And then we started measuring and while we
started measuring, we learned about how
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:are we actually creating waste, in what
areas are we creating waste, who might be
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:the best person to tell us what waste is
created, then who are the people who might
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:have the biggest influence in reducing
this waste.
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:We started it this way and then...
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:we went on to a journey of learning that
was supported by then eventually signing
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:up to the Guardians of Grubb training.
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:A whole bunch of people in the business
trained on the Guardians of Grubb training
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:that allowed us then to kind of connect
front of house and back of house on this
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:kind of mission to produce food based.
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:I've done the the wrap Guardians of the
Grubb training as well and it's really
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:inspirational and as a chef in the kitchen
you don't really think about what are the
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:what are the front of house doing and how
how do they.
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:Like you fill in a questionnaire at the
beginning and one of the first questions
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:is, who are the people in your restaurant?
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:Who are your key stakeholders?
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:And it does actually go through front of
house.
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:And that's sort of made me go, oh, oh
yeah, okay, it does have an impact.
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:And I really hadn't thought about it
before.
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:So for anyone who's not done Guardians of
the Grub training, I would suggest doing
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:it for all your staff.
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:It's really good, really insightful.
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:I'm very pleased to say that our ambition
to reduce food waste by half since we
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:started the measuring is on track.
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:We still kind of see spikes and troughs,
so it's something we certainly want to
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:continue looking at.
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:But we are certainly on track achieving
that, and that's just such an amazing
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:achievement.
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:And this wouldn't be possible if we
wouldn't have brought in different team
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:members, even if you think there's
sometimes invisible places.
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:So...
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:our sales team and our reservations teams
are just as important in this process
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:because if for whatever reason they are
missing to update the bookings, then we
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:potentially overproduce.
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:If they are not putting in the information
of someone being an allergen in events,
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:again, we probably produce food, but it's
not edible by these guests.
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:So it becomes like a network operation and
you really want to bring in.
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:as many people as possible, but equally
you need to streamline it so you can
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:actually start progressing.
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:I have a question for you both actually
being chefs.
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:There's a very much like background of,
you know, making sure that something is as
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:square as possible, even if it was
originally round.
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:So there's wastage and things that, you
presentation is obviously very important,
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:especially the more high end you go with,
with the cuisine.
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:So is it more difficult to bring those
types of chefs, especially maybe the old
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:school, along the sustainability journey?
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:In weird ways, that's maybe something I'm
exploring in my PhD research to a level.
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:It's not the main focus, but it's somewhat
generational difference between how we see
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:good food to sum it up.
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:So I think if you speak to someone who's
going to culinary schools now with the
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:vice and sustainability conversation and
messaging, I think there's probably more
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:of an awareness that good food.
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:has to be linked to that as well.
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:Whereas traditionally, I would say, chefs
probably associated good food with taste
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:and indulgence and hedonism.
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:And I'm not saying that this isn't true
still.
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:I think we are almost adding another
dimension now into how we want to create
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:food and kind of taking that on board.
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:What do you think, Sarah?
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:I think previously where you'd have seen
perhaps, you know, the good example is the
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:case of fish, right, where
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:previously, you might have seen a piece
cut off the side or a piece cut off the
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:end to square the shape.
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:And that would have been considered waste.
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:But you really wouldn't see that now.
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:And you know, even things like fish skin,
it's, it's become cool to eat fish skin
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:crackling.
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:Yeah, like skin would have been discarded
before.
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:Can you still make beautiful food, which
is a direct to your eyes, not over
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:trimming?
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:Yeah, of course you can.
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:And I think people have moved towards
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:So, Andrea, how can the hospitality
industry have a bigger voice in food
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:systems for sustainable eating?
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:It's a big question.
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:And the reason why it's a big question is
that it's because hospitality is so
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:varied.
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:So I give you an example.
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:If you're a hotel or an events company,
the impact of your...
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:business will sit in a different area than
a restaurant.
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:If we are just looking at greenhouse gas
emissions and that of course isn't the
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:only dimensions we might be considering
within sustainability, a hotel's
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:greenhouse gas emissions are likely to be
much higher in the transport of their
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:guests coming to the hotel proportionately
than maybe the food specifically.
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:Let's say if you're a hotel which just
does bed and breakfast, right?
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:You're already just by buying produce,
you're
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:costs are already lower on the food side.
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:So how a hotel will influence the
conversation around environmental
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:conversations will be slightly different
to maybe a restaurant.
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:Then again, with events, similar thing
with events, you're probably going to have
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:guests traveling in.
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:And that might also have a much, much
higher impact on the overall footprint the
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:business is generating.
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:For me, and that's kind of where I like to
say I'm a bit more specialized maybe.
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:I look at how food in particular, food and
drink impact the planet.
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:And that's because I work in a restaurant
and a lot of the certainly greenhouse gas
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:emissions and probably a lot of the other
environmental impacts are driven by the
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:food and drink we are buying.
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:I don't want to ignore that when we are
switching on the light, when we are
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:switching on the hops, that's what you
call in sustainability language, scope one
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:and two emissions, they play a role as
well.
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:But if you start looking at...
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:where are the biggest impact of our
business?
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:They tend to sit in the things we are
buying and then selling, prospectively.
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:That means that understanding when we are
buying food, where it's coming from, how
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:it's being produced, is becoming
increasingly more important.
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:And then the next layer, and that's
certainly my view, when you're starting to
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:think about, okay, it's food and drink,
which has potentially the biggest impact
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:in the business, on the planet, then how
can we now
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:modulate the food and drink offer to
remove some of these impacts or reduce
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:some of these impacts and still deliver
the sort of experience our guests are
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:looking after.
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:They still want to eat luxuriously.
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:They still want to treat themselves coming
to the restaurant.
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:As a more practical example, if you come
to the restaurant at the moment, we sell
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:beef.
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:people love to treat themselves coming to
a restaurant and say, this is my one time
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:a year where I might actually treat
myself.
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:So they're probably going to order a beef
fillet.
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:It's one of our best sellers.
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:Now from sustainability point of view,
that's drama for me, because it's got one
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:of the highest impacts.
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:So removing it from the menu is probably
not an option at this moment in time.
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:Yeah, but what we can do is asking
ourselves, how can we actually get the
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:beef on the plate?
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:in the lowest impact version.
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:So asking ourselves, can we find a farmer
who farms the cutter in ways which are
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:more regenerative?
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:Can we consider maybe the size of the cut?
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:Is the way we are putting that leaf onto
the plate producing waste which is
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:unnecessary?
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:And can we reduce that waste around it,
for example?
262
:So it's kind of asking ourselves, what are
the things we can influence by still
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:delivering what our guests are looking
for?
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:It's so insightful.
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:There's so much going on in the background
that as a consumer, you don't really
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:realize it's just a piece of meat, you
know, but there's so much that goes on
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:behind.
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:And you saying that there's like tears of
the kind of emissions has never even
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:crossed my mind before.
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:And the fact that restaurants or hotels
take ownership of their customers journey
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:footprint as well.
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:That's definitely news to me.
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:It's quite a responsibility.
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:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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:I never.
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:To me, I wouldn't have thought that was
part of their responsibility, you know?
277
:I would say there's still a little bit of
a debate around what proportion they
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:should be taking ownership of, because
there's a difference and this is when it
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:gets very technical.
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:So when you do life cycle analysis, which
is where you're trying to assess how much
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:greenhouse gas emissions or how much
impacts are going into a product, a
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:service, you make assumptions.
283
:And is it right to assume that someone
traveling to the restaurant is only
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:coming to the restaurant for only meeting
the restaurant, only eating there, or
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:where they're on a journey already
somewhere and passing through.
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:Right?
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:So therefore, you then have to ask
yourself, do we need to challenge some of
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:these assumptions?
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:And that will vary again for each
business.
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:Yeah, that's a tough one.
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:A central London restaurant is probably
more likely in a position where someone is
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:passing through, whereas if I am a
destination restaurant in a beautiful
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:space,
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:In the countryside, it's less likely that
someone is passing through there, actually
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:making the journey specifically for that
restaurant.
296
:Yeah.
297
:Sarah asked you a question about the food
systems.
298
:So can you tell us more about the UK Food
Systems Centre for doctoral training and
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:how you think the next generation of
doctors will approach diet advice?
300
:So the UK Food Systems Centre for doctoral
training is where I'm currently doing my
301
:PhD.
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:It's based in Greenwich and it's training
60 students in the UK food system.
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:And when we talk about the UK food system,
people often don't really quite know what
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:the food system is.
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:So the food system, as I would define it
as a PhD student, is basically everything
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:which is involved in getting food to our
table.
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:So that's the growing of the food,
transporting of the food, the processing,
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:the potentially storing of the food, the
further.
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:processing in a kitchen or in a
restaurant, then the distributing it and
310
:then also the what happens after it.
311
:So if there's food waste or if there's
waste or leftovers on the plate, what
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:happens to it afterwards?
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:That's part of it as well.
314
:And the people I'm lucky enough to spend
time with, so the other doctoral students
315
:and the lecturers and their supervisors,
they are all really, really keen on
316
:understanding how can we shift this big...
317
:beast if you like, to have better outcomes
for society, for the environment.
318
:Students look at different things, so some
might be working purely on farming, some
319
:might be looking at the logistics
processes, some might be interested in
320
:things like nutritionally, what do we need
to start growing to make sure that in the
321
:next generation we actually have healthier
diets and again that's a...
322
:spongy term, what I define as healthy
might not be what other people define as
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:healthy.
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:What policies would we need to put in
place and what governance systems do we
325
:need to put in place to actually have
different outcomes than we currently have.
326
:That's really interesting that you talk a
lot about governance and having the
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:specialised area.
328
:I think for most consumers when we think
about sustainability, we might have the
329
:best intentions and we might have what I
would say are bigger aspirations for
330
:sustainability.
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:the UK than we feel that our leaders do.
332
:Do you feel there's a disparity there and
do you think that can ever be bridged?
333
:The disparity lies in part in the
different goals government sets within
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:their agenda.
335
:And that's really me kind of thinking out
loud.
336
:The government needs to deliver on
economic outcomes, it needs to deliver on
337
:public health outcomes, it needs to
deliver on environmental outcomes.
338
:And what they're trying to do is they're
trying to deliver all that often in one or
339
:two policies, which makes it really
difficult.
340
:They also need to bring together what I
would call public consensus about what do
341
:we define, what do we think is a healthy
diet, what would we say is a sustainable
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:diet.
343
:And if we would just talk about what good
food means to each one of us, we probably
344
:would have very different views of that.
345
:And that's why it's often really difficult
to bring consensus between these two
346
:things, because there's different opinions
and...
347
:different values associated to different
aspects of the food system.
348
:Yeah, that's amazing.
349
:I will fess up here.
350
:I did completely go off script there
because this is a subject that I'm very
351
:passionate about and could talk about all
day.
352
:So it's really interesting to hear your
thoughts on that.
353
:But if we have any of our listeners who
are at the start of their own personal
354
:sustainability journey, or even if they're
well into it, what's the one piece of
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:advice do you give them to stick with it
and just to keep going for the good of the
356
:planet, for society, for the economy?
357
:What can they do as an individual?
358
:I think what keeps me going personally is
using creativity and being curious while
359
:also wanting to understand someone else's
position within that.
360
:So it's kind of being empathetic to the
people around you, trying to truly listen
361
:what their needs are and then start from
where their needs sit and where they are
362
:at and start building from there.
363
:Because if you are not...
364
:bringing in the people from the place they
are currently at, it's going to be really
365
:difficult for you to get their support.
366
:And sometimes maybe it isn't about getting
their support, maybe it's about you
367
:supporting them.
368
:Yeah, that's great advice.
369
:And it definitely sounds like, you know,
it's not a one size fits all, which might
370
:be why people think going on this journey
might be difficult.
371
:But actually, when it's more personalised,
you're more connected and probably more
372
:likely to stick to it as well.
373
:As a hospitality person, it's...
374
:It's a beautiful way to connect with
people on a very authentic level.
375
:I've met some of the most interesting
people through this journey and sometimes
376
:they've challenged me, but challenge isn't
a bad thing.
377
:Challenge helps you to grow, to
transition, to change your own perceptions
378
:of what's right and wrong.
379
:Yeah, I think if you're thinking about
sustainability, it's bigger than yourself,
380
:isn't it?
381
:So it's not just about me, me, me.
382
:You are thinking of the planet really and
everyone that's on it.
383
:And it's a beautiful place to...
384
:have a reason to connect because I won't
have all the answers.
385
:Whereas if I bring other people's
knowledge and wisdom in, then I might get
386
:the right answers or might find better
solutions.
387
:Yes, it's time for Put the Copper Down,
Quick Fire Round question time.
388
:The rules of the game, Andrea, is to
answer the questions with one word
389
:answers.
390
:Now we know that one word answers may be
tricky for those in hospitality, so let's
391
:see how you get on.
392
:We'll be judging your answer by speed,
succinctness and perhaps anything
393
:arbitrary we choose to add.
394
:At the end of the season, we will tally up
the scores from each of our guests and the
395
:winner will receive.
396
:Are you ready, Andrea?
397
:Are you ready for what the prize is?
398
:It's a £10 Amazon voucher.
399
:So if you are ready, Andrea, let's begin.
400
:Oh, yes, I'm ready.
401
:So Andrea, if you were a flavour of ice
cream, what would you be?
402
:Tutti frutti.
403
:So thinking of, as an example, Christmas
and Easter, if you could create a new
404
:holiday, what would it be called?
405
:World Peace Day.
406
:What's the most unusual job you can
imagine yourself doing for a day?
407
:The first thing I was thinking of was
fire, a fire woman.
408
:What is your go -to karaoke style?
409
:I hate karaoke.
410
:Boo!
411
:Do you run hot or cold?
412
:Hot.
413
:If you could have dinner with any
fictional character, who would it be?
414
:Fuhua from...
415
:the never -ending story.
416
:Andrea, what's the weirdest talent that
you have that not many people know about?
417
:I dress my clothes from inside out.
418
:So if you could go to any place, real or
fictional, where would you go?
419
:This sounds boring but I would stay at the
Tames.
420
:So crisps, fried or baked?
421
:Baked, as a nutritionist.
422
:If you could switch lives with any
celebrity for a day, who would it be?
423
:Greta Thunberg.
424
:If you had the power to solve one global
issue, what would it be?
425
:I'd start with world peace, I think all
the others would be easier to solve
426
:afterwards.
427
:If you could collaborate with any person,
living or dead, on a project, who would it
428
:be?
429
:I would love to collaborate with George
Orwell.
430
:I like it.
431
:Fact or fiction?
432
:Fiction.
433
:We need more dreaming.
434
:Imagine you wake up one day with the
ability to speak every language fluently.
435
:How would you use this newfound skill?
436
:To bring people together to overcome
tension and problems.
437
:If your life had a theme song, Andrea,
that played every time you entered a room,
438
:what would it be?
439
:The first one coming to mind is Staying
Alive.
440
:What is your go -to dance move when no one
is watching?
441
:The shimmy?
442
:Beastenders or Coronation Street?
443
:Holly Ox?
444
:That's a bit younger, isn't it?
445
:It's more our generation, to be fair.
446
:Okay, this is a riddle.
447
:I have keys but no locks.
448
:I have space but no room.
449
:You can enter but you can't go into the...
450
:What am I?
451
:A box.
452
:What has a heart that doesn't beat?
453
:A clock.
454
:So your time is up, Andrea, and you made
it through.
455
:So the answers for the final two questions
were the first one was keyboard.
456
:I got that.
457
:And the second one was artichoke.
458
:OK, yeah, that's a good one.
459
:I didn't get that.
460
:So how do you think you scored?
461
:Really poorly.
462
:I'm not competitive like that.
463
:I'm the worst person.
464
:I always want the team to win.
465
:Oh, well, we're competitive.
466
:So, Senghor, do you want to tally up those
points?
467
:I got 16.
468
:Well, you got 16.
469
:And, Andrea, you're going to have to stay
tuned to find out at the end of the season
470
:if you've won our top of the range prize,
which I'm sure you're just dying to have.
471
:Thank you, Andrea.
472
:It's been great having you as a guest.
473
:We know that our listeners will make use
of the experience device that you've
474
:given.
475
:Thank you also to our listeners for
joining us today.
476
:Stay tuned for more insightful
conversations here on Talking Hospitality.
477
:And we'd like to thank our brand partner,
Graphic Kitchen, you our listeners, our
478
:guests and all of those who have supported
us.
479
:Please check us out at talkinghospitality
.com for the latest gossip, episodes,
480
:blogs and courses.
481
:Wishing you well.
482
:Thank you all for listening and stay
awesome.
483
:Thanks for watching!