In the first episode of The Unconvential Ufologist, Steve Yarwood explores two of the most controversial figures in UFO history: Bill Moore and Luis Elizondo. From Moore’s shocking admission of working with U.S. intelligence to Elizondo’s role in exposing the Pentagon’s AATIP UFO program, we break down their stories, controversies, and legacies. Were they whistleblowers, disinformation agents, or something in between? Join us as we uncover how these men reshaped the UFO disclosure movement and left lasting marks on the debate over government secrecy and the unknown.

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UFO podcast, Luis Elizondo UFOs, Bill Moore ufology, AATIP Pentagon UFO, UFO disclosure

Part of the Pursuit of the Paranormal Podcast Network

You've tuned into the wrong frequency, or maybe the right one, depending on how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Welcome to the Unconventional ufologist, where government secrets get aired, logic takes a back seat, and your host, me, Stevie Harwood, pokes the universe with a very long stick.

Hello there and welcome to this action packed pilot episode of the Unconventional ufologist.

I'm Steve, and I'm going to bring you a double header to be all double headers.

Tonight I bring you Bill Moore versus Lou Elizondo, a mostly serious examination of why we keep falling for the same space story.

It's almost certain that things like fashion, decor and even music appear to be in some form of temporal loop.

And eventually they make a comeback.

Weirdly.

Well, in my mind anyway, I think it can be said that the same happens in ufology.

So let's set off and discover that flying saucers and governments share a common trait.

They both love paperwork.

Galaxies spin, stars explode, and somewhere out there, statistically speaking, there must be at least one alien civilization that has mastered the art of interstellar travel, but still can't figure out how to properly package a fragile parcel for shipping.

Here on Earth, however, our relationship with the cosmos is slightly more complicated.

For decades, humanity has been engaged in a peculiar dance with the idea of unidentified flying objects.

Or as they have recently been rebranded in a fit of bureaucratic inspiration, unidentified anomalous phenomena, UAPs.

This shift in terminology is important because while UFO conjures images of little green men and flying saucers, UAP sounds like something a mid level government employee would file under miscellaneous concerns.

Probably not important, but make no mistake, the fascination remains the same.

People still look to the skies and wonder, what was that?

Government still issue statements that somehow manage to say nothing at all.

And every few years, a new figure emerges.

Promising answers, delivering intrigue and leaving us with more questions than we started with.

Which brings us to the two men at the heart of our story.

Who may or may not have been a government sock puppet.

And Louis Elizondo, the modern day Pentagon alumnus who may or may not be the key to unlocking the universe's greatest secrets.

Or depending on who you asked, he might just be very good at telling stories.

Bill Moore and the Majestic 12 files are how to start a conspiracy with a typewriter and a dream.

In the grand tradition of people who stumble into history while looking for something else, Bill Moore began his career as a humble schoolteacher before discovering that writing about UFOs was significantly more lucrative.

And let's be honest, A lot more fun than marking papers.

Or was it?

And turned it into the foundation of modern UFO mythology.

But Moore wasn't content with just writing books.

No, he wanted to participate in the mystery.

The Majestic 12, or MJ12 documents.

For the uninitiated, the MJ12 papers purported to be classified government files detailing a secret committee formed by President Truman to handle extraterrestrial affairs.

They had all the hallmarks of a great conspiracy.

Cryptic memos, shadowy figures, and the kind of classified stamps that make archivists weak in the knees.

There was just one problem.

They were most certainly fake.

Moore, it turned out, had been working with the Air Force Intelligence, feeding disinformation to UFO researchers, most notably Paul Bennywitz, a physicist who became so convinced he was intercepting alien communications that he suffered a mental breakdown.

When Moore later admitted his role, the UFO community reacted with the kind of betrayal used as reserve for a cancelled TV show.

The believer's take is that Moore was a whistleblower, exposing government manipulation by any means necess.

The skeptics take was that Moore was either a pawn or a grifter, playing both sides for profit and prestige.

But the truth probably is a little from column A, a little from column B, and a whole lot of we'll never gonna know.

This brings us to Luis Elizondo and the Pentagon's greatest hits.

Or how to release a viral video without actually explaining anything.

The Internet has replaced newsletters, Twitter has replaced coffee shop debates, and UFOs have been rebranded as UAPS to make them sound more respectable.

Hasn't worked.

Enter Luis Elizondo, a former intelligence officer with a square jaw, a solemn demeanor, and a story so compelling he could make a congressional hearing feel like a blockbuster movie.

Elizondo's claim to fame.

He allegedly ran the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, as we knew, at AATIP, a secretive project investigating UAPs.

His big reveal?

Three now iconic Navy videos dubbed Tic Tac, a fast moving oblong thing, the gimbal, a spinning thing, and go fast.

A thing that was neither going fast nor slow, thus living up to its name in the most confusing way possible.

These videos were showing unidentified objects doing things that, according to physics as we understand it, they shouldn't be able to do.

At first, Elizondo was cautious.

We don't know what these things are, he said.

But soon the story grew to things like we've recovered materials not made by humans, there are biological specimens, because why stop at spaceships where it can imply alien autopsies?

And also the government is hiding the truth, which is always a classic.

The Pentagon's response was a mix of we have no idea what he's talking about and no, seriously, we checked the basement and we got no aliens down there.

To his supporters, Elizondo is a hero, a high ranking insider risking everything to expose the truth.

He has testified before Congress, claimed the US has recovered non human materials and framed the whole thing as a battle for transparency against an oppressive bureaucratic machine.

To his critics, he's something else entirely, a master of strategic ambiguity.

A man whose claims grow grander with each interview, but whose evidence remains frustratingly elusive.

Just the latest guy selling tickets to the UFO hype train.

There is a series of red flags.

The Pentagon has given conflicting accounts of the actual role in a tip.

Also, his association with to the stars Academy, a UFO research group co founded by Blink 182's Tom DeLonghi, raised his eyebrows and also questions about profitability.

Some of his evidence, like a mothership photo, which has been debunked as a mundane phenomena, mainly the reflection of a light fitting.

The believer's defence is why would he lie?

The skeptics retort is well, why wouldn't they now?

The eternal cycle.

What's fascinating about the more Elizondo parallel isn't just the similarities, it's the inevitability.

The ufo, Sorry, UAP discourse follows a script so predictable it could be franchised.

One, the insider emerges, A figure with government ties steps forward, promising revelations.

Two, the evidence drops, is compelling but inconclusive.

Just enough to tantalize, but not enough to prove.

Three, the government responds.

Its statements are so carefully worded they could be used as yoga exercises.

Four, the public devise.

Believers see a cover up, skeptics see a con.

Five, the most obvious one.

The money flows.

Books are written, documentaries are filmed and someone inevitably starts selling merch.

The only thing that changes is the technology.

More had typewritten documents.

Elizondo has HD videos.

In 20 years time it will probably be AI generated holograms narrated by a virtual David Attenborough, with the obligatory appearance of Nick Pope, virtual or otherwise.

So what's really going on?

Spoilers.

We still don't know.

Here's the uncomfortable truth.

The US Government has lied about aerial phenomena before.

Cold War spy planes were disguised as UFOs to throw off the Soviets.

Experimental aircraft have been tested in secrecy.

So when officials say nothing to see here, skepticism is warranted.

But here's the other uncomfortable truth.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and so far, the evidence for alien visitation remains firmly at the hmm, that's weird category.

The bottom line, if you want to believe Elizondo, is the latest chapter in an ongoing disclosure saga.

But if you're skeptical, this is just Moore's playbook with better special effects.

And also, if you're undecided, welcome at the club.

Meetings are Tuesdays, and we serve mediocre coffee.

One thing's for certain.

Until the government either comes clean or the aliens finally land on the White House lawn and file the proper paperwork, this cycle will continue.

The names will change, the tech will improve, but the debate remain the same.

Because in the end, it's not just about UFOs.

It's about our endless fascination with the unknown and our even more endless ability to argue about it.

So we asked at the beginning, is Elizondo the new Moor?

Yes, but with better wi fi.

Both men rode the line between whistleblower and showman, between truth and tall tales.

The only difference was Moore's ear had less Internet Today you can be wrong forever if you've got enough followers.

So if history is any guide, here's what I think is going to happen next.

One, we're going to get more claims.

Two, we're going to get more denials.

Three, more people making YouTube videos titled the Truth they don't want you to know.

And somewhere in a dimly lit office, a government employee sighs and mutters, we really need to stop losing those files.

This has been an episode of the Unconventional ufologist with me, Steve.

If you've enjoyed this episode and wish to contribute to its follow future, then please head over to ko fi.com forward/uncon UFO that's k o hyphen f I.com forward/u n C-O-N u f o see it again pretty soon.

Take care.