What if the thing you’ve been trying hide is actually the reason people remember you?

Rachel Lee is a brand stylist and designer who built her business by doing the opposite of what she thought “serious” creatives were supposed to do. From growing up as an imaginative art kid to hiding parts of herself in traditional design roles, Rachel spent years trying to fit in before realizing that belonging to herself mattered more.

In this conversation, she shares what happened when she quit a stable job, stopped performing professionalism, and let her real personality lead, cat ears and all.

From Art Kid to Self-Trust

Rachel’s story starts the way many creative stories do: curiosity, imagination, and a slow drift away from those instincts in order to be accepted. The farther she moved from herself, the harder it became to feel fulfilled.

“I spent so long thinking that fitting in was the safer option, but over time I realized it was costing me way more than it was giving me.”

That realization didn’t arrive all at once. It came through frustration, burnout, and the quiet feeling that something was off.

Actionable Insight: Pay attention to where your work feels heavier than it should.

Bonus: Name one part of yourself you’ve been muting to feel more legitimate.

Choosing Alignment Over Safety

Rachel left a steady job because she refused to keep living out of alignment. She talks openly about fear, family expectations, and learning business without a roadmap.

“Walking away from something stable was terrifying, but staying would’ve meant ignoring the part of me that knew this wasn’t it.”

Actionable Insight: You don’t need certainty to move forward, just clarity on what you’re done carrying.

Bonus: Identify one small step toward work that feels more like you.

Personal Branding That Feels Human

For Rachel, personal branding stopped being about aesthetics the moment she stopped pretending. Her brand worked when she did.

“Personal branding isn’t about looking polished or put together. It’s about letting people see who you actually are when you’re not performing.”

The cat ears weren’t a tactic. They were a signal. And people remembered her because she felt real.

Actionable Insight: Make your brand feel like you.

Bonus: Ask yourself where you’re trying to sound like someone else.

Attracting the Right People by Being Clear

When Rachel showed up as herself, the right clients leaned in and the wrong ones drifted away.

“The moment I stopped trying to appeal to everyone was the moment the right people started finding me.”

That clarity made everything simpler.

Actionable Insight: You’re allowed to be specific, even if it means being less universal.

Bonus: Remove one message from your site or bio that feels watered down.

Staying Human in a Noisy World

As Rachel moves into content creation, her focus stays the same. Connection over polish. Practice over perfection.

“With everything becoming faster and more automated, the thing people are craving most is something that feels human.”

Let yourself evolve without abandoning who you are.

Actionable Insight: Growth comes from repetition, not reinvention.

Bonus: Show up once this week without overthinking the outcome.

Key Takeaways

1. Fitting in costs more than it gives.
2. Your quirks are signals.
3. Personal branding starts with self-trust.
4. Art and business don’t have to compete.
5. Standing out begins with letting yourself be seen.

Closing Reflection

Rachel didn't want to fit in. She wanted to be memorable by telling the truth.

Remember, the people you’re meant to reach are looking for you, not a generic version of you.

If you want support marketing your book or creative business that showcases the real you, I’m here to help. Sign up for a free consultation at TheStandoutCreatives.com.

Let’s amplify your work in a way that is fun for you.

And I find that the more upfront you are just about what you're about in general, naturally, it's gonna attract some people, and naturally, it's gonna repel some people.

Like, some people don't understand why I've got a Pikachu in the backdrop of my zoom.

And some people, the moment they see it, they scream and they're like, can I be your best friend?

Right.

Like, naturally, there are some ways that we show up that we will attract the right people and will scare away the wrong people.

And there's all sorts of people that I find, and it's just a matter of finding the ones that you enjoy hanging out the most with.

Otherwise, like, what are we even doing here?

Welcome to the Standout Creatives, where making money and creating meaningful work go hand in hand.

You're already passionate about what you create.

Now let's turn that passion into a standout business.

Marketing.

Your work doesn't have to be overwhelming.

It can actually amplify your creativity.

I'm your guide, Kevin Chung, and this podcast is your roadmap to creative business success.

I'll show you how to turn your unique talents into a business that truly represents who you are.

Let's get started.

Welcome to another episode of the Standout Creatives.

Today I have on Rachel Lee.

Rachel is a designer, brand stylist, and proud Photoshop queen who helps creative misfits ditch the boring show boring and show up loud, weird, and 100% themselves.

From high school rebel to founder of Neogenesis, she's here to remind you that fitting in is overrated and your brand should feel like you.

Rachel, that's awesome.

I did read your founding story a little bit, and it's kind of interesting.

So let's just start there and tell us how you got to where you are now.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for having me on your show.

I feel like the journey in my head should have been very linear, but we know that's not how it works out.

Like, as.

As a kid, I. I was the kid who was into art.

I love doodling on my exam papers.

And growing up, I always knew that I wanted to make things for a living.

So naturally, as a good Asian kid, I followed the route of like, I'm gonna get.

Get good grades.

I'm gonna study design in art school.

And as my parents told me, I'm gonna find a nice, stable, well paying job, work there for 40 years, and then retire happy.

That was the Kool Aid that I drank growing up, and I tried following exactly those steps, and I got to the last one where like I, I studied design in art school and then I landed myself what was supposed to be my dream job and then realized that I hated was like the worst, the wor, you know, like 24 year old me, the little that 24 year olds know about what they want in life.

I was like, I'm going to like be happy here and that's it.

And I had only planned my life until that point and it was the worst experience ever where a few weeks into my supposedly dream job I realized that I wasn't happy.

But I didn't know where else I should go from there because I had only planned my life up until that point.

So I found myself in this unfortunate situation where I didn't understand that I could do my own thing outside of traditional employment.

It wasn't like even in my realm of possibility.

It wasn't until one of my friends who turns out to be now my business partner, who was the only self employed friend that I knew at that time.

I was stuck in this position.

I didn't know where to go and I happened to have the right conversation with the right person who just asked me a very simple question.

I was sharing about how I was feeling stuck and that I just didn't know where to go.

And my friend just asked me, well, if you're not happy where you're at right now, why don't you just do your own thing.

And I remember my brain short circuited.

I was like what?

Like, what do you mean?

Like that's even a thing.

Because I, I don't have any business owners or entrepreneurs in my family.

Everyone has followed the very traditional route of working at a stable job.

So it wasn't in my realm of possibility that I could even do something outside side of the traditional employment route.

So I remember that opened up this whole can of worms for me where I realized like, so there's this whole other world that has existed called business ownership or self employment that I have never known about until now.

So I, I went down the rabbit hole.

Like I started networking, started trying to like take on projects just on the side of my full time job.

It was literally like the sample platter of I want to try all of the things to get a feel for what and how this works before I decide if I want to commit to it.

So I had this period that was honestly very stressful.

I had my full time job that I was still working 9 to 5, Monday to Friday and then outside of work hours like after I get off my job at 5, I would sky train downtown, skip dinner, go to as many networking things as possible, and then sky transit back, shower, sleep, and then wake up at six to go to my full time job after.

And then on my transit rides I'd be madly working on my freelance projects because I had no other time of day to work on my stuff.

So it was a very stressful period of like me straddling a bunch of things.

But very quickly I realized that I liked my side stuff a lot more than my full time job.

In hindsight, I wish that I did it a different way where, you know, sometimes when you start a new year, you have this thing in your brain that's like, I need to make a change in my life.

And then like, like I need to get fit or whatever it is.

I had this switch that flipped in my head.

In hindsight, I should have prepared more because I had only freelance for a few months on the side of my full time job.

I had zero foundation laid.

I just knew what direct I wanted to go in.

So it was very, very rash where I quit my job cold turkey and I just jumped head deep into the world of business.

And then it wasn't until after I jumped in that I realized I didn't know how this game actually works.

It's like you jump in and then you're like, oh shit, like what have I done?

Like I'm in the water, I don't know how to swim and there is no life jacket.

So you're like floundering every day just trying to figure out, figure out how do you keep your head above water, figure out where shore is and then try to swim to it.

So that was the start of my business journey.

Like I was just some art kid that didn't know what they were doing, wanted to try something new, and then made a very rash decision.

So that was my entry point into the world of business.

I don't know if we want to stop there or do you want me to continue?

But yeah, that was my starting point.

Yeah, that's, that's kind of crazy if you think back at it.

But sometimes all it takes is that, you know Leap of faith.

And you just figure it out from there.

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

But the only way to know is to do it.

And I think you.

You just decided, this is not for me.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna try it and see where it takes me.

Right?

Yeah, exactly.

And I think it's.

It's weird because very typically, I'm the type of person who likes to research everything and get all of the info that I need before making a decision.

Like, from a Harry Potter house standpoint, I identify as a Ravenclaw.

Like, I am not the Gryffindor who's just going to charge madly into battle and figure it out as they go.

I'm like, I need to do my research.

I need to know my specs.

I need to plan out this battle before I step foot into the battlefield.

Like, I'm that type of person.

So it was, like, very uncharacteristic of me to just pull the trigger and very rashly jump in.

But in hindsight, if I actually knew how challenging the journey would be, I honestly probably would not have done it.

I would have chickened out.

Because the subsequent few years, probably just because I was, like, really, really stubborn, I decided to stick with it.

I was like, I did not commit career suicide for nothing.

I'm just gonna have to make this work.

And I was very, very stubborn about even when things weren't working.

I was just like, I will die on this hill.

Like, I had that sort of attitude.

So the first few years were very, very challenging.

Like, I spent a lot of time trying to, like, look at the people around me and watch what they were doing, and then basically try to model my business off of that.

Because I didn't have a business coach.

It was literally see what other people are doing, guess what is or isn't working for them, and then adopt those things into my own business.

So it was very much this mishmash of monkey see, monkey do.

And some things worked and some things didn't.

But what was interesting is I eventually constructed kind of like this vehicle that sort of works.

It wasn't very reliable, but it's like those like, putt putt cars.

Like, you turn the key in the ignition and sometimes it turns on, sometimes it doesn't, and it just stalls.

It was like my business was kind of like that.

And I, when I constructed it, I constructed it in a way that kind of works based on what other people were doing, but it actually didn't feel like me.

So I found myself in this position where I had packaged and presented my brand in a very serious way.

Because I looked around and everyone was like kind of like semi formal, kind of vanilla.

Look at me, I'm so professional, like that kind of vibe.

So I thought that's the only way that people are making money.

So I'm just going to have to copy that.

And I did.

And it's not that it didn't work, but it felt really uncomfortable.

It's kind of like wearing someone else's shoes.

It's not like your feet are not protected, but it's hella uncomfortable.

You're going to get blisters after a while walking in them.

And in the long run it's just not sustainable.

So I ended up in that position a few years in and I was like, I'm doing the business thing, but this experience, experience really sucks.

I'm not having fun and I. I don't know if there's a better way to be doing things.

So it was interesting.

I had like this moment in my journey where I.

Everything kind of came to a screeching halt.

That feeling of discomfort inside, it got so bad.

Like I felt like I was lying to people.

When I was going to networking events.

I would like suit up and put on all my makeup and like dress up super professional.

And I'd be like, hi, I'm this agency owner.

Like behind the scenes I just, I felt like a liar.

Like it was so bad that I eventually stopped showing up.

Like it just got to that point where I knew that in order for me to continue doing what I was doing, I really needed to revisit the way that I was showing up and revamp that in a way that was sustainable in order for me to continue.

So I had like this month where I didn't do anything but like just like basically brain dump into a journal.

I think I just brain dumped into Google Docs.

I had like this big question at the very top that was like, who am I and how do I want the world to see me?

These are very big existential questions.

But I was going through that about like a few years into my business because I knew that something needed, something needed to change.

And so I needed to really dig deep to figure out what those answers were.

And in the process of me answering those questions and trying to find a solution for myself, I unintentionally created what is my personal brand, the thing that you see today.

It was very unintentional, but it was more of a personal decision than it was a business one.

It was More of like, I'm not happy with the way that I'm showing up.

I'm not happy with the way that I'm being seen.

Something needs to change.

What is that change going to be?

So it was more of like a personal decision that ended up becoming the direction that I would take with my business with, like, now, it turns out, oh, cool.

There's this thing called personal branding that I didn't know that I did for myself.

Turns out this is something that might be helpful for other people.

So that kind of resulted in the rabbit hole that is where I now have my business.

So it's weird, but now I get to say I love helping people who are in that place of stuckness where they're like, I know what I want to be putting out into the world.

And maybe they're even trying.

They're like, I'm trying to put it out, but people just don't get it.

Or they're like, I'm just really bad at communicating it.

I like to help those people with working through that.

So then you could just show up as your best self and not get hung up over these tiny little things, such as that one font on your website that you're insecure about or this color that you're like, I don't know if it's the right thing for me, but yeah, it's.

It's been a journey.

It's crazy to me that I get to say I've been doing this for six years somehow still standing, still doing the thing.

But, yeah, it's not.

It has not been a linear ride at all.

Yeah, I think the.

The hardest thing about being a solopreneur or a business type owner with your own business is that that you want to fit in like you did.

Right.

And the hardest thing to do is to be someone else.

And that's.

I think the reason why a lot of people struggle is they're trying to be everyone else.

And when you're trying to be everyone else, obviously you just kind of like, blend in.

And that's kind of the opposite of what you need to do in order to build a successful.

At least when you're starting out like a solopreneur business is you need to be yourself and have something that makes you relatable to people.

Exactly.

I feel like there's this weird thing that we have where we're afraid to stand out because when you're different, people mentally associate different with being a bad thing because they're like, oh, if I don't look the Same way as the.

The way other professionals are doing it, then that makes me not professional, because that's not what they're doing.

But I'm trying to find a way to help people refrain that, reframe that in their minds, and understand different is a good thing.

Because if we were all the same, how the hell are people going to tell if you are or are not the right fit for them?

If we all did the same damn thing, how are people going to make up their minds?

It's actually good and important that you're upfront about, here's who I am, here's what I'm like, here's my sense of humor, and it offends you.

Sorry.

Not sorry.

Please get out of my circle.

We're not going to get along anyway, right?

Like, it's better to be upfront about these things because you don't want to work with clients that you're not going to get along with anyway, right?

Yeah.

So it's all about finding the fit.

And when you're yourself, you draw the people who are automatically attracted to that.

And it makes it a lot easier, especially in communication, like agreement and, you know, working together.

You need to have all those things in cohesion in order for this to actually work.

And when you're, like, aligned in many ways, it makes it a lot easier.

Even if you have, like, differences of opinion or something, it makes it easier to, you know, find the middle ground when you're trying to work together.

Yeah, exactly.

And I find that the more up, upfront, you are just about what you're about in general.

Naturally it's gonna attract some people, and naturally, it's gonna repel some people.

Like, some people don't understand why I've got a Pikachu in the backdrop of my zoom.

And some people, the moment they see it, they scream and they're like, can I be your best friend?

Right.

Like, naturally, there are some ways that we show up that will attract the right people and will scare away the wrong people.

And there's all sorts of people that I Is just a matter of finding the ones that you enjoy hanging out the most with.

Otherwise, like, what are we even doing here?

Yeah.

Especially since you're working for yourself, you want to have at least the best relationships that you possibly can.

You know, you.

The.

The people that you like to work with, you know, the relationships that you're trying to build.

It's not all about making money.

It's about, you know, how do I live the best life while living in this system that Requires us to do things in order to survive.

Right.

We're no longer like hunter gatherers or kind of needing to create wealth for ourselves.

And the only way to do that is to, you know, do something to fit into society.

I mean, it's just inevitable.

Unless you somehow find a way to escape the government and live like in the woods or something.

I mean, mad respect to the people who somehow managed to make awesome off grid living work.

Like, I, I'm sure we've all had that phase in our life, even just a split second where you're like, I'm done with all of this.

I just want to run off into the mountains and just be by myself and not have to deal with just society.

Like all of this dumb stuff that's going on in the world.

Like, let me just be and live my life.

I feel like we've all had that thought go through our head at least once.

But for the people who commit to actually making that happen like that, that's, that's hardcore, like, salute.

Mad respect on this end.

I don't know how you make that happen.

Everyone else has to figure out a way to fit within the system.

So the best thing we can do is like find our way to do it right?

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

But I mean, we live in a time where we have, we're in the age of the Internet, we're in the age of AI for crying out loud, where we have access us to so much at our fingertips.

And honestly most of it is for free too.

I think there's a lot of amazing things that we can do, but I think it takes a lot of, I think you have to have a lot of belief and trust in yourself to make the right decisions.

And you really need to know what you want to be putting out there to not be influenced by all of the things around you.

Because I don't know about you, but like I, whenever I spend a lot of time, like even on social media, like there's this weird part in your brain that starts, starts comparing.

Like, you know, you're scrubbing through your feed and then you see, you see something and then you get triggered because you're like, oh, like I wish I was like that or oh, that's so cool.

Like, and then you start doing this weird thing in your head.

It takes a lot to know how to filter that out and still understand like what you've got to put out and what's special about that and just to stand by it instead of being like, oh, I like what this person's Doing.

Let me try that instead.

Like, it's so easy if you are not strong in your identity and understanding of yourself to like, go down a lot of different rabbit holes and start copying other people or getting swayed by all of the stuff that you see on the Internet.

Yeah, I think there's multiple ways to look at it.

So you can be.

There's a very good Instagram account called.

Or just social media account called the Jealous Curator, where they find like the coolest possible things on the Internet and they're just like sharing them with other people.

And by doing that, you gain a lot of inspiration on what you can do.

So.

And there's also something that Austin Kleon promotes is like just getting as many inputs as possible and using them as your influence.

So you can.

You're not directly stealing from people, but you're like building your style based on what you're seeing and liking and trying to do it for yourself.

And ultimately, even if you try to copy someone, it's not going to be the same.

It's going to be whatever influence that you bring into it is also going to come into it, even if you try to do it exactly as they did it.

Exactly.

I often like.

I like having this conversation with people where oftentimes people ask, because I make things for a living.

And people always ask like, so what do you do when it comes to inspiration?

Like, they're like, we're sure you do some sort of research, but like, where do you draw the line?

Because sometimes when you, like, do too much research, people wonder like, does that affect the end result?

Do you end up creating something that's so similar?

And so I feel like over time my creative process has, like, I've done a lot of experimenting with it where I now understand there's this certain line I have like a boundary where I know what I'm trying to create.

And it's kind of like researching for a paper.

It's like, I know what information I need to gather to have sufficient info to execute.

But after I get enough info, I put like a hard stop and then I go into creation mode.

So it's kind of like the.

In the amount of input needs to be same as the amount of output.

Otherwise if it's disproportionate, then it affects the end result a certain way.

It's kind of like the amount that you eat is the amount that needs to come out.

Like, it sounds gross when I say it like that, but you know what I mean, right?

It's like it has to has to be even otherwise it affects the end result.

So everyone process is different at the end of the day.

But I found that that's what enables me to find that good balance of like, I, I, I have like, info, it's informed design when I create for my clients, but the output is still completely unique because I do have a hard stop where I'm like, okay, now I get to roll up my sleeves and then put my own ideas and my own spin and like, play around with it.

So there are, like, boundaries around the creative process.

Yeah, I think every creative person has their own set of rules, and it just, it probably evolves and constantly changes all the time.

So it's not necessarily your method or My method is better than any other.

It's just the way that we need to operate in order to continue to be creative and not feel like we're stepping over some boundaries.

Right?

Yeah, exactly.

Can you talk a little bit about the reaction of your parents since you're Asian, on leaving your steady, steady corporate job and jumping into your own business?

Oh, man.

They, I think to this day, they still don't fully understand what I do.

I'm thankful.

Where my parents, from day one, they've always been supportive.

I think the main thing for them is they're like, rachel, the only thing we want for you is for you to be happy, whatever that looks like.

We, we are there to support you even if we don't understand.

And I think the parts where they get concerned is obviously when I am not able to pay my bills because I'm still figuring shit out with the business that's they were like, rachel, like, do you need help?

Like, like, are you sure this was the right decision?

So I think that, like, especially in their earlier years, like, there was indeed a lot of concern because, like, this is also an area that they're totally unfamiliar with.

And so even if they wanted to, like, like, support me in some way, they're like, rachel, we don't even know what you do.

We would love to help, but we are not business owners.

We don't know how this works.

We know you are very passionate and really believe in the thing you're.

I feel like at some point they were pretty helpless, and they're like, like, we're watching our daughter suffer, and she's like, she's ready to die on this hill, and there's not really anything that we can do.

So I think I stressed my parents out a lot in the first few years because I was just very stubborn.

I was like, I'm going to make this work.

Like, I know that if I, like, just work at it hard enough, I'm going to figure it out.

But I, I feel bad for the amount of stress and probably sleepless nights I've caused them to go through.

Thankfully, like, I've gotten my business to a much place now, so my parents are probably breathing a huge sigh of relief.

But if I were to be honest, I don't think they fully understand what I do.

They're just like, Rachel does design something, and we think she makes cool logos.

Like, I think that's the extent of their understanding, but it's also because they don't, they don't spend a lot of time on social media or doing, like, the Internet stuff, so they might not fully understand the extent of the work that I do.

Like, when I say personal branding, they're like, like, was that like, like, do you do logos?

But for people, like, I, I don't think they fully understand it.

That's so funny.

It is good that you have such supportive parents, because it's not always the case.

So I think the biggest thing is, like, not that they understand what you do, but they respect and are trying to, you know, let you live your life without putting too much influence into.

Obviously, they don't know anything about business, so they can't really help you, but, like, trying to direct you toward.

Back towards something that was making you miserable.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Like, the older that I get, and it's weird because I'm like, I just turned 30 last year, so the older that I get, I put big air quotes around this, the more that I understand that everyone has their own path.

And, like, it's, it's great when people are there to offer advice and support, but at the end of the day, like, it's your, your life, and you get to decide what information you internalize and actually take action on.

And a lot of the advice that you're gonna receive, you'll probably say, thank you, I appreciate it, but that is not for me.

And your whole life is literally just a series of you making those decisions.

And those decisions end up shaping the person that you become.

So, like, I, I spend.

I'm weird where I, I, I guess I'm still young, but I think of a.

A lot about identity and the person that I want to become.

I'm trying to be intentional in the way that I shape it without making it some big, serious thing.

It's just, I want to be someone cool that I would like to hang out with.

And so every day I'm trying to figure out like, well, what does that look like?

Like, what would make today a great experience.

And I just kind of let that guide my decisions on a day to day basis rather than being like, by 75, I want to accomplish all of these things and have this empire.

Like, I don't really live my life, life like that because I've, I've, I've come to that point of understanding that's not really how life, how life works.

You can have an idea of where you want to go, but it's gonna, it's definitely gonna change and evolve as you work your way towards that goal.

One of the, the funniest things that I've learned in my life is that no one really knows what they're doing.

Right.

We're all just kind of making stuff up as we go.

And when you're a kid, you think that adults have it all figured out and you're like, oh, my parents are so smart.

They figure out how to live life.

And once you start to become older and become more of an adult, you're like, no one ever knew what they were doing.

And we're just all kind of figuring stuff out as it happens and don't necessarily need to stick with a chosen path.

Even if people say that's the right way to do things.

You can take life into your own hands.

Like you've done, like I've done recently.

So it's like, just like, how can we live the best lives for ourselves and not let people tell us what we should or shouldn't be doing?

Exactly, Exactly.

I think there's this post that I saw the other day where I guess Instagram knows how old I am.

So it's targeting me with all of these agents specific post that basically said like, I, yes, I am an adult, but there are some times where I'm looking for advice from an adultier adult because I realize I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

It's like when you're at that weird age where you're now, you're not considered young anymore.

You're old to the young people, but you're still young to the old people.

Like that's the weird sliver of age where I find myself.

But it's cool.

I feel like, I feel like, like now in my 30s.

It's interesting just turning this chapter mentally where I remember when I was 29, I was really scared of leaving my 20s.

The big 30 birthday terrified the shit out of me because I personally, I was like, there's so many things that I wanted to do and fit into this window, but I, I felt like I didn't get to do a lot of those.

But then once I crossed the threshold and now looking back in hindsight, I realized that my 20s was that stage of my life where I did a lot of testing.

I got my heart broken so many times and I learned what didn't work.

And now in my 30s, I understand how the world works now and I'm still gonna like, want to live my best kid life, but with adult money and with smarter decision making ability so I can avoid all of the stuff that didn't work in my 20s.

So I'm like reframing that in my mind.

But it's just interesting.

Like, yeah, I just recently crossed that threshold hold.

And I'm excited for what the future holds for the next decade.

We'll see what happens.

Yeah, I mean, I love the post the most where it's like this person didn't write their famous book until they were 52.

I'm like, okay, yes, I have time until I hit this age.

So we're always like, oh, I need to do it while I'm young.

But I think being young oftentimes it's just like preparing yourself or living the rest of your life.

It's not really the time to live your life because you're just still figuring things out.

And I think brains don't fully develop until you're in your 20s.

So until you reach that point, you're not really like sure how to continue to live life.

But you know, you just figured out.

As you go, we do, we do, we're just big kids trying to figure out this thing called life.

And I think Even some like 98 year olds are like, I still consider myself young.

I'm just in a 90 year old body or something.

You know, I totally believe it.

Like, like what age is like David Attenborough at, he's still running off and like in Antarctica, like running around with penguins for crying out loud at like 90 something.

So I fully believe that and I, I hope to be one of those people too.

Like, I have this joke that I have with all my closest friends and family where everyone's like guessing like, oh, what age are you gonna make it to?

I'm like, guys, I'm gonna live forever and I'm going to be young forever.

And the day that I die, like that's going to be a hell of surprise for me because I plan on being on this planet for a very, very Long time and making the most out of like every single second of it.

So whenever I go, you know what, I'm, I. I get to be happy and say that I lived the best life that I could with the time that I had.

That is the only purpose I want to die with no regrets.

Awesome.

I want to talk a little bit about.

I saw your Instagram post of this recently.

How you came up with the identity and the cat ears and your whole journey there.

I think that was a very interesting story.

Yeah, yeah.

Happy.

Happy to share it.

It's funny that sometimes when I meet people, like in person, I. I don't have my cat ears.

So it's the weirdest thing because most of the people I meet meet.

I do online networking.

It's mostly online.

And so most people meet me online first with the cat ears.

And then if we're in the same neighborhood, it's like, oh yeah, let's go grab dinner or something.

When we meet up, the first thing they always say is, what happened to your cat ears?

Like, without fail.

Like, people are always shocked when they see me without it.

And so sometimes I forget how much it's become a part of my identity.

Like, people are just like, are those attached to your head?

Like, is this just a permanent installation?

But what was funny is this.

They.

The.

The cat ears didn't become a thing intentionally.

It was totally by accident.

I feel like that's how most things in life happen.

But it was like an accident where this was like a few years ago when I had a friend who was hosting this little role playing thing for some people who are familiar with Dungeons, Dungeons and Dragons.

It's similar to that, but like a two hour version.

So super bite sized.

And it was for entrepreneurs too.

My friend would bas.

Basically get you to create this character and that character could be whatever you want it to be.

And then he would construct this two hour experience where he would guide your character on some cool adventure and the theme of the story would be run parallel with something along the message of your business.

I don't know how it worked, but it was like this really cool and creative way to facilitate storytelling in a sense.

And so.

So I clearly was the kid who had imaginary friends and liked to dress up.

So I immediately signed up because I'm like, I would love to.

This sounds like such a fun experience.

So when I got to create my character, when he gave me the blank check to say like, you, you could be anything.

You don't even have to be human, I was like, oh, actually, so in that case, I ended up creating this little cat person character.

I. I played Skyrim in the past, and so I was like, I would love to be a khajiit, which is basically like a cat person.

And the type of, like, character is like, she's this tiny little thing, but she's like an assassin.

And so, like, you don't want to mess with her because she's got poison tip knives and she can snipe you from the rooftops.

But in terms of, like, her.

Her personality and her character, I don't know if you're familiar with Dungeons and Dungeons and Dragons, but for character alignment, it.

I'm like, she's chaotic good, so she's gonna steal from the rich and give to the poor, like, that sort of character.

Even if she's breaking the rules, it's for a good cause.

So, like, I constructed my mind around this type of character.

I actually had.

I. I got to draw what this character looked like for visuals.

I can actually show you what it looks like.

It was my wallpaper for the longest time.

This was the character.

I actually, like, had this as my wallpaper for the longest time.

And this was before I had the cat ears.

This was before I had the pink hair.

This is before, like, all of this stuff.

But for the actual experience, we were encouraged to dress up and actually be that character.

So I actually bought cat headphones for it, and I had, like.

Like, face pain, and I dressed up and I did the whole thing just to honestly enjoy the experience.

And after, during the experience, I got to test run that character where my friend, as he was like.

Like, he was painting scenarios, and basically, as part of role playing, I would have to react to those scenarios within that character and what I've constructed her to be.

So it was a cool experience where I feel like I got to test run this identity that wasn't really me.

But in my mind, maybe subconsciously, when I created this character, I was like, in the perfect world, this is exactly what I would do be.

I can't actually be a cat person.

Of course, that's not how, like, reality works.

But in the perfect world, here's the character.

Here's who I would actually be.

And so it was weird where I got to test run and try the experience of being that person.

And then my friend literally did not know what he did for me.

But by the time I finished that call, I was left with this feeling of possibility of, like.

Like, actually, I like that feeling.

I tried it on, and it's actually a good fit.

What if?

And then that led me down a rabbit hole of what if I just became that person.

Like, it was like, it's like a no brainer thing, but it's like I actually want to become her.

And, and, and then so I started to bring the cat headphones into my business calls.

The first call that I wore the headphones to, I was so scared.

I was so worried that the person would go on Zoom and be like, ew, like, what's this child that I'm talking to?

Like, I was so scared.

But it turns out that people actually really liked it and it's become a part of my brand since then.

So yeah, like, it's, it wasn't by, it wasn't intentional, but I ended up choosing to adopt it, so there was still some choice voice there.

Even if this whole thing came about by accident, it was still like a conscious thing where I liked the experience.

And instead of being just a temporary role, I decided to make it a forever thing.

And so I, I unintentionally grew into that person or that character so much so where I'm probably gonna adopt the name that I created for her.

Her name is Kairi.

And I'm gonna gonna eventually like, create an actual, like, personality or character for her sometime in the future.

I, I actually just started up my own Twitch account and I'll probably start streaming sometime in the near future, but maybe to that extent.

So who knows?

It's still in development, I'm still feeling it out.

But yeah, that's the story behind the kitty ears.

They're just apparently now they're fused to my head and I can't take them off.

That's amazing because I think we oftentimes times will look at business and say like, your original point of view when you're starting out.

It's like I have to be the most professional person possible.

Right.

And when you're doing that, you're like, okay.

You're just like, whenever everybody else you.

When you meet somebody, you're like, okay, I met them, it's fine, whatever.

But if you take that character Persona and you talk to people, they're like, oh, okay, there's something interesting happening here.

And they're like more intrigued about who you are, what you do, what you can bring to the world and to them.

So it's like, even though it's can be unprofessional, it'll look unprofessional, it actually is something that helps you like, stand out.

Exactly, exactly.

And I feel like.

And that's different for every person, too.

Right.

Like, the thing that feels the most natural to me, this is me just being upfront about the fact that I'm weird and nerdy and I like cute things, but I'm also a tomboy.

Like, this is just me being upfront, upfront about who I am.

This isn't everyone's vibe for some people.

Like, they're super into gardening, and so, like, their whole space is just plants everywhere.

And, like, they're very natural and, like, just raw in the way that they present themselves.

And so every person's got a different thing.

And then.

So what I find is that there's this weird.

There's a huge difference between creating a character and, like, putting up a front that isn't who you are without any intention of becoming that person.

Like, you're just lying to people at that point.

You're like, I want you to think that I'm cool, so I'm gonna put up this polished front.

But behind the scenes, my life is in shambles.

I'm a horrible person, and, like, I have no intention to change that.

There's.

There's.

That's one way of doing it.

The other way is being like, hey, like, this is who I want to be.

Maybe I'm.

I'm not there yet, but I'm growing into this person and still putting that character out there, but using it as a way to.

To shape your growth as a human being.

Just to be like, I. I'm going to grow into these shoes.

I want to become this person, and I'm just going to start with this foot forward.

And in a sense, that container, it kind of forces you to become that person.

And so it just becomes something that guides your growth rather than just being this, like, mask on, mask off sort of thing.

I believe it's important that we live our lives holistically because of.

I've tried the mask on, mask off thing.

It's really unsustainable.

You end up hating yourself, and you end up hating everyone else, and it's just not a good way to live in general.

Yeah.

So figure out what it is that makes you, like, different.

How characteristics of the person that you want to be can help influence who you are versus I need to be this type of person.

I need to be, like, super professional, like a professor.

Whatever.

Whatever is.

You can be whatever it is.

But if you want to be a professor, that's good.

Like, right?

So whatever it is about you that resonates and makes you want to connect with people in that way, that's what you need to bring forward.

Exactly.

And I'm sure you've talked with all sorts of crazy people on your podcast, too, so I. I'd be curious about, like, the types of characters that you've met.

I'm sure that there's all sorts of different types underneath the sun.

Oh, yeah.

There's, like, everyone operates differently, and there's lots of, like, very adventurous people, and then there's lots of, like, introspective, you know, people.

So whatever it is that works for you is the way that you need to do it, not the way that you.

Rachel, you don't need to be Rachel, you don't need to be Kevin.

You can be yourself and what it is about you that makes you, you know, interesting or unique or.

Or whatever it is.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

One thing that I've been trying to do more for myself is I'm trying to be more intentional in, like, at least every six months, like, checking in and asking myself, like, am I happy with where I'm at?

Are there any adjustments that I need to be making?

So then I could just be a little bit more intentional about shaping where I want to be?

And you caught me at this interesting stage of my journey where, like, I. I feel like I've.

I've had my fill with the business thing.

Like, most people know me as, like, oh, Rachel does design, and she does branding, and that's just what people know me for.

But I find myself at this weird stage of my development where I feel like I've had my fill with the business and I'm ready to move on to the next chapter where I want to start doing more of my art.

I want people to know me for that.

I want to start.

Start going on adventures.

And, like, business ownership, I realized, was a stepping stone for me.

I think it's cool that I. I was able to prove to myself that I was able to do it.

I think there's this weird thing for a lot of creatives that, like, we feel like we need to prove to ourselves that, like, we can do it.

That, like, people see the value in our work and that they're willing to spend money on it, that you are happy with your own quality of work and you can stand behind it and be like, I am proud of what I have have created.

And so I feel like I've gotten to this weird stage in my journey where I'm happy and fulfilled with what I've accomplished in this chapter, and I'm kind of looking forward to the next thing and being like, oh, I'm, I'm flirting with the idea of like streaming and like becoming a digital nomad and, and trying all of these other things because I don't think I was born to be a business owner.

I, I don't like, like bossing people around.

I'm still trying to figure out how to organize myself on a day to day basis.

I just want to like, explore and have fun and make things that make people smile and like, try different things.

And so it's cool that like, we're having this conversation where I'm like, yes, I, I'm, I have done all of these things and I, I still do branding for people, obviously, but I'm starting to I what the next chapter might be for me, and I haven't fully discovered that yet.

So it's cool that we get to be talking about all of these things in this conversation.

Yeah, it's like everything else.

It's evolving as you live life because you could be stuck, just like you were stuck in a 9 to 5 job for however long, you could be stuck in this branding place where that's what you do for the rest of your life.

Or you could also experiment with other things.

That doesn't mean you need to stop branding or you need to, you know, do one just gold cold turkey, like, you quit your job, you can, you know, do both on the side.

See what works, see what doesn't.

Does it make sense to continue on this path of being a creator and somebody that, you know, entertains and you know, connects with a lot of people?

Because when you're doing branding, obviously you're working with a few clients, you can't work with a ton of people.

But as a creator who's sharing all your stuff, you can connect with many people.

So it's just like a different thing.

Yeah, exactly.

And so it's, it's just kind of like an itch that I want to scratch.

And it's weird.

I, I remembered, I just shared about this yesterday in my stories that for most people, the business is the end destination.

Like, and I know that because I talk to a lot of people where their dream is to set this, create this machine that's going to fund for their livelihood, take care of their family, right?

Maybe leave a legacy.

Like, the business is the end destination for some people.

And it's weird for me to get to the stage where I'm realizing that it's just a stepping stone for me.

Like, this isn't where I meant to stay long term, but I do recognize that I've learned a lot of important skills.

Like even as a creative, every creative, if you want to make a living doing your work, you have to understand how business works.

You need to understand your value, you have to understand how to charge and you need to understand when people exchange money for your work, what that even is.

And I think a lot of artists, because I studied an art school, they didn't teach business to us.

As most artists we like, we have this weird thing where our personal sense of worth is attached to our work.

And so when people don't buy our stuff, we translate that into all of these horrible thoughts that basically are something along the lines of, nobody likes me, my work is shit and I am worthless as a human being.

Like, it sounds horrible when I say that, but we internalize it in this, this horrible, horrible way.

And as a result, there's a lot of artists who are shy to put their work out there because they're afraid of rejection, who don't know how to market themselves and detach this, this self worth thing from their work and to be able to stand behind their work even when some people don't like it.

So it's, I think out of the business experience I've learned a lot from an art, from a creative standpoint of things that skills and mindsets and certain things that I'll probably take with me into the next chapter.

Because when I go into becoming a content creator, obviously I'm going to find a way to monetize what I'm doing.

So it could continue to take, I can continue to take care of myself, but it's going to look different.

But still with the business skills of understanding, oh, here's how it generally works, but this is just a different arena.

So we'll see what happens.

I have no idea what is in the, even in the next few months ahead, I have no idea.

That's so funny.

I think the idea of tying yourself to the worth of your work is definitely something I see in a lot of creative people.

And it definitely detracts people from wanting to get their work out there, there and it's.

And they sometimes make the excuse of, oh, I don't want to sell my art because, you know, I do it for the art's sake and that, that's fine.

I mean, obviously you can do that.

But a lot of people will want to be an artist as a living and say that, oh, I don't need to market my work, it should just speak for itself.

But that is not in the actuality of the world.

World.

That's not how it works for the most part, unless you're like, very lucky and someone spots you and blows it up somehow.

So you have to figure out what is the balance of, you know, the business versus the creative work and how they can coexist together.

And I think, yeah, there's a very good book called Make Art, Make Money that was about Jim Henson and how he essentially used use a lot of his creative work to feel his passion projects like the Muppets and Fraggle Rock and stuff.

It's like he did a lot of, yeah, commercial work in order to fund his, you know, passions.

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And I feel like the business for me is basically that it's kind of like the arena where I have a safe, well, safe, somewhat safe sandbox to test and hone the these skills.

So when I get to that point where I'm putting my own artwork out there, I know how this business game works.

And I understand, I understand the market, I understand what people want and I understand how to communicate about my stuff so that it connects with the right people.

And I feel like maybe at some point, maybe I don't know if it's going to happen in this lifetime, but it would be cool at some point if I could help a lot of artists and other creatives just understand how business works to support them in making a living off of their work.

Where for example, one of my best friends, we studied.

We actually went to high school together.

We ended up studying in university together and then we worked at the same two jobs after graduation.

We basically like lived our lives together for a very long time.

We're like best design buddies.

And she was actually my co worker at the last job that I left the.

That I quit cold turkey.

She was mad at me for that.

She was like, why did you ditch me?

Like, why did you ditch me here?

I thought we were gonna do this thing together.

But it's interesting because I ended up taking the business route where the work that I do, I'm.

It's technically still gun for hire.

The work that I do for creating brands for other people, it's like a commission art piece.

I'm creating something on behalf of or channeling something, something for someone else.

Even though I still add my, like have I put my skill and my creative sense to it, it's still something for someone else.

It's not art that I would create for myself when I'm just doodling in the evening.

But my friend, she still works at as a full time graphic designer at a full time job.

And then on the side, she's actually selling her art.

And so when I look at that and I'm like, I have so much respect, respect for her because it's different when you're like selling a design that's like a commission piece, like, whatever.

I don't have any personal attachment to the work that I create for my clients.

But for her, this is her personal sense of self expression and she's putting it on a table and watching people walk by and, and then seeing if they do decide or not to buy her stuff.

I look at her and I'm like, like, girl, you are so brave.

I don't know how you do that because I, I would just crumble into the ground if I put my heart out there.

And I just watched people walk past because they didn't resonate.

I'm like, that's a different level of bravery.

But of course she looks at me when I do the business and she's like, girl, I don't know how you do what you do.

It's like two totally different things.

But yeah, it's, it's interesting.

I feel like, like it's, it's hard to make a living as somebody who's creative if you just don't understand how it works.

And either way it's still challenging.

It's just a matter of figuring out which arena you prefer to hang out in.

Yeah, one thing about like art shows is not everyone there is going to be like, you're going to like your style or whatever it is.

So if you go from one place, like say you go to one city to another other, your experience can be completely different.

And like the context of where you're existing and selling is completely different than everywhere you go.

So you need to know exactly who you want to try to reach and how to do it, because that's the only way you're gonna be successful.

If you try to just go to like any art festival for like say a city or something, that's not necessarily the best avenue.

Even though that might bring the most amount of people to it.

You could have success.

Like say if you went to like an anime convention, obviously you would have more success there than you would at a general art festival at a city, right?

Absolutely.

It's about knowing where to find your people.

And I think one of the biggest things that a lot of creatives don't fully understand is that you need to understand what part of your work connects with people on a deeper level.

And when you understand what that connection is, then it's very easy to know what to sell, who to sell it to, and where to go to be able to make the most out of that opportunity.

Because you sell this beautiful thing, but sell it to the wrong crowd, you're going to walk away feeling like you have nothing of value to offer because you're not going to get any biters.

And so when you understand what about your work really connects with people, that is the single most valuable thing that any creative could ever know.

Because once you know that piece, you know where to go, you know how to market, and you know how to actually earn the money.

Yeah, I think there, there's like an example that I heard recently where if you took like a.

A famous Minor Linus and put them into, like, the streets of New York or something, they might not find that much success, but.

And they might not.

Like, if they put out a bowl for people to donate to, they might make like, I don't know, maybe, maybe a dozen or a couple hundred dollars.

Right?

You put that same person, same skills, same everything, put them into, you know, the, the New York Symphony in the hall where they're playing for, you know, rich people or whatever.

And that's like a.

The same violinist, same music, same everything.

The only difference was you change the surroundings in the context of this person.

And that just shows you that everything has its own place.

Right.

You don't necessarily need to follow everyone else.

You just need to follow whatever it is, like you were saying, that helps you connect with people.

Mm, exactly.

Exactly.

And even after, like, designing for people for many years, like, I do see trends where I notice that certain types of people prefer certain types of styles.

And like, I very loosely draw these patterns because, for example, like, like a lot of people in, like, generations that are slightly older than me, they're really into the retro vibe because that was the cool thing when they were growing up, like, retro was like the cool thing.

Like the bell bottom jeans, the retro font, like, like disco vibes, like, that is like their thing.

And so oftentimes when I create branding for people from like, a certain generation, I notice that they gravitate more towards or they feel more connected with their.

Those types of styles.

And then so during that time, like, there was like a lot of rock, a lot of rebellion.

It was like, like the street scene, like, white T shirt and baggy jeans was like the look for high school, like, long, straight hair, grungy graffiti, like street kind of stuff.

Like, that was, like, the thing that was the cool thing when I was growing up.

And so I personally find myself gravitating towards, like, street art.

I love that stuff.

I love how, like, gritty and grungy and rebellious it is because when I was in high school, like, that was my happy place.

So I find also similarly, a lot of people around my age in the millennial bracket, we have a very, like, similar taste in, like, style.

And then like, Gen Z is different and then Gen Alpha, I don't even know.

But like, like, maybe meme culture, like, it's very different.

So, yeah, it's, it's cool.

The more people you work with, the more trends you tend to see.

These are, of course, generalizations, but it's interesting, like, you learn a lot about people as well based on their style preferences.

And one interesting thing about that is when you have have those set generalizations, when you do something different from what most people would expect, that's also another way to stand out because everyone else is doing this.

It's similar to the way that you would approach networking.

If everyone's the same, you're kind of just like, blending in, but you turn it.

Say you went out to one of those networking events with your cat ears.

Like, that would be a completely different experience, right?

Exactly, exactly.

One of the secrets that I have to networking effectively is the way that I have everything set up.

Like, I would blend in in a sea of gamers or Twitch streamers.

Like, this is just what you expect to see when you talk to somebody who streams for a living.

The moment you take this setup and then you put it in a zoom room full of business owners that are trying to make money for their small business business.

Completely different experience.

And so, like, there.

There's a way that you could strategically, like, position yourself to really stand out in a room.

Of course, I always tell people, like, the big asterisk beside that is you have to make sure that whatever you're doing still feels like authentic and natural to you.

Like, if you're doing something that feels completely off and doesn't really resonate and you're like, this isn't really me, but you're just doing it for attention.

Please don't.

Because it's just not good in the long run for anybody.

But if it feels good and natural, then it actually becomes like, a wonderful way to help people remember you.

Because now that's why I usually have, like, the cat emoji beside my name.

Like people just recognize the ears and then they're like, oh yeah, like she's the girl who wears like, like pink kitty ears.

That's what people have started to call me.

And I guess that's just what people know me for now.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Can you talk a little bit about your path from being a brand person to being a content creator?

What do you see as far as your future?

How do you think you're going to develop yourself as?

I guess when you're doing this, you're probably going to start from near zero.

You might have some business people following you, but how do you go from nothing to where you want to go?

That is the big question.

And this is where it's cool because I haven't done the thing yet.

So this is all gonna be speculation.

I'm low key intimidated when I made up my mind that I wanted to start streaming.

And so for the past week this is very fresh.

I've literally just downloaded the Twitch app on my phone and in my free time I'm just scrubbing through to get familiar with the platform, just, you know, understanding the route room, understanding the culture.

How does this whole thing work?

And I'm, I'm quite intimidated.

Like I still consider myself young and it would totally.

People won't bat an eye if I put myself on a platform like that.

But I'm actually really intimidated because a lot of what I see, it feels unnatural to me.

Like I see a lot of like gamer tech bros.

I see a lot of like, like onlyfans shirtless women and I'm like, I don't do those things.

That's not me.

I'm just, I want to find a platform that allows me to be myself and to connect deeper with people and just to share the experience live without filters.

I think what's, what I'm interested in with the live experience is I come from the world of Photoshop and airbrushing people.

Everything you see online is basically fake.

But when you're live like IRL in real time with people, there is no faking it.

And I think there's something really cool and special about that that I really like and appreciate.

Like I'm over the editing and the perfect and making everything super curated.

Like I just want to share real moments with people and I think people in the age of AI are getting to that point of doneness as well.

They're like just, I just want to talk to a real human.

Like I don't want the pretty Photoshop version of you like, show me the, like, like, like show me the, the wrinkles and all of like the, the weird gross stuff.

Like, I want it real.

And so what I'm fascinated about with streaming is just the idea that you can't fake it.

Like you're just there is you and the camera and like if you randomly fart, like, okay, well guess what?

That's real.

Like it's not curated and I'm not perfect, but I want to capture that.

And so I'm in the process of figuring out because most of my audience right now, it is small business owners.

I don't think there are any small business owners that are on Twitch.

Most business owners don't even know what Twitch is.

They're just like, oh, that's the place where gamers hang out at like 3 in the morning, right?

Like, that's the impression that most people have of like this type of world or content creation.

So I'm curious to see what it would be like where probably I'm gonna start.

Start.

It feels like I'm coming out.

It's like I'm gonna start telling people just on social, like, hey guys, I'm gonna be doing this thing.

Like I still have the business, but I'm looking to share more of my art.

I'm looking to grow my brand as a content creator and as an artist and I'm gonna start doing all of these things.

And if any of you are interested in following along on the journey or just like supporting here, here's some of the other things I'm going to be trying.

Maybe start up a Twitch account and just follow me so you could like be there when I do my very first live.

Probably will cry on camera because it's like I'd just be so hella intimidated.

But at least you'll be there for that moment.

So I'm probably going to just start there and I probably, I want to start off small because it's going to give me the opportunity to practice without the stakes being so high.

I prefer it if there's like, like zero people watching for my very first live because I can just do whatever I want without the pressure and just put in the reps so that like when I do end up having more people, I just my best natural self in front of the camera so I could see it being like a slow process of I'll just tell people what I'm up to, get them to follow along if they're interested.

That will be enough to get me started just to, just to continue to do the thing.

And I'm pretty sure as I, I go on the path that more people are, I'm gonna find more people along the way, but that's as far as I planned it.

Probably later tonight, I'm gonna, like, continue setting up the rest of my Twitch profile.

I'm still researching, like, how the platform even works, but it's in progress right now, so maybe check in with me in a few months and I might have moved it along a little bit more.

I love the idea of being small and that being the best opportunity to figure things out because obviously when you have giant platforms, every eye is on you and you have no room for mistakes.

So if you already had like a built in audience and you were completely doing something completely different and everyone followed you, that could be even worse than, you know, this experimental phase where you're like, like just being comfortable with doing things in it in a new way.

Right?

Because we all need to, at some point get enough reps to be comfortable doing anything.

Like everything that you do has taken some time, Unless you happen to be somehow naturally gifted in something, which some.

People are, and you're an alien and it's really annoying.

But, you know, that's.

No, I. I know what you mean.

It's true.

Like, it's funny.

A lot of people, people get surprised when I tell them I'm an introvert.

They're like, no way.

I'm like, yes, I. I love people, but in limited quantities.

And when people ask me how I got good at talking to cameras, how I got good at doing podcast interviews, it was because I put in the reps when no one was looking.

I. I don't talk about this too often, but I actually used to have my own podcast that I started up, had my.

I first put my personal brand out there, and very quickly when I did the thing, I realized that I felt really uncomfortable on camera and I hated the sound of my own voice.

And I knew that if I was going to do the personal branding thing that I would just, I would have to figure that out and get comfortable.

So there was no better way of doing it than for me to start up my own podcast and just talk to the mic mic.

And every week I would just show up and it was kind of like an audio diary where I would just like share about what happened that week, something I learned, something cool or whatever was on my mind at that time and then just capture that and I would force myself to listen to it when I was editing it.

And that's how I kind of Developed a better relationship with talking to the mic and being okay with the sound of my own voice.

So I kind of lowered the cringe factor, and I literally expected nobody to listen to the podcast.

It was just an exercise that.

That I did for myself, and I just wanted to document it somewhere, and I didn't anticipate that a lot of people would actually, like, really enjoy and tune into that.

It only went for, like, 20 something episodes because it did take a lot of time and energy, and the business just got so busy that I couldn't sustain it.

But it's kind of like that.

Like, you have to put in the reps, especially when no one's looking.

Because.

Because when people are looking, that's when the pressure is on.

So you better be ready for that.

It's so much better to practice when it's just like, you and your cat.

Like, your cat might be judging you, but who the hell cares, right about what they're thinking?

Just do the thing.

And then that's how all of the greats got good at what they do.

It's after hours.

All of those shots that you have to take, that's how you actually end up getting good.

Awesome.

I have a couple more questions left.

Do you know anyone personally who also runs a standout creative business, and what do they do to stand out?

Ooh.

Oh, that's tough.

I know a lot of really cool people.

I know a lot of people in the world of marketing.

I guess it goes hand in hand with the nature of marketing, where you have to run your business in a way that stands out.

I have a really good handful of.

Of people who are photographers, who are copywriters, who.

I think the way that they do their work, it's not just like, oh, I'm a gun for hire, and I can just, like, I can make someone sound good.

The work that they do is on a much deeper level.

And I would love to get those people connected with you, though, because I'm sure that they could use with more exposure for their business as well.

Well, great.

What is one extraordinary book, podcast, documentary, or tool that has had the biggest impact on your journey?

Oh, okay, let me think.

There's this one book, actually.

Is it on my bookshelf?

Yes, it is.

Let me.

Let me grab it.

There's this one book that I have called Primal Branding.

Out of all of the books on branding out there, there, I. I somehow this is not a very popular book, but this has drastically shifted the way that I understood branding.

Where before I read this book, Branding for Me was just a design thing.

It was let's make things pretty so then the company can make more money.

That, that's basically what I thought branding was in the earlier years because obviously I have a background as a designer.

After I read the this book, I came to understand branding on a deeper, more human level.

I understood the psychology behind it where like a brand is basically the construction of an identity that people connect with and have a relationship with as if you were actual friends or whatever that relationship is.

And when I understood that, it completely changed the way that I understood branding.

That's probably what kind of sort of opened the gateway for, for personal branding for me, because I understood it on a deeper level.

It's yes, people see it, the shiny marketing rapper.

On the outside, there's a lot of pr.

There's probably a lot of deceptiveness in the way that certain brands do things.

But when I read this book, I came to understand that branding done right is actually very human.

It's about humanizing business and creating an experience audience that is good and supportive for the humans who interact with it.

And when I speak about branding on that level, suddenly it becomes super fascinating and super interesting because we live in a world where everything is so manufactured.

We're always trying to find ways to make things feel more human because that's just who we are, that's the way that we operate.

So, yeah, definitely recommend this book.

It's been like a hot second since I've read it, but I would read it again in a heartbeat because it's, it's just so fascinating.

And it doesn't have to be like a designer.

Like, you don't have to be a designer to appreciate it.

It literally just breaks down the psychology of a lot of big brands, what makes them tick and why they've seen the success that they have.

And it's just, it's like legit.

So fascinating.

That's so cool.

Because obviously if you're not coming from a marketing or branding background, all you know about brand is like, how they present themselves themselves.

You don't really make the connection in your mind.

I mean, maybe on a very small level, but you don't make a connection in your mind on how they're connecting to you as a human to human type of interaction.

It's more like, oh, they're, they're just throwing stuff at me.

But if you're doing it well, yeah, then you have the ability to connect with people on a deeper level.

And that's usually how you're able to, you Know, get somebody to buy or work with you or whatever, whatever.

It's when they have that, that instinct that tells them, oh, this is what I should be, who I should be working with or what I should be buying.

That obviously doesn't apply across the board.

Like, some people just buy things because they're cheap.

And that's, that's a lot of people.

But when you're going for certain, like, types of thing, products or services that you're offering, it's important to have that human element in that there.

Yeah, exactly.

Like one of the examples that were in the book, just the one off the top of my head that I can think about is they were breaking down the color psychology behind the UPS brand, which is, you know, one of the biggest delivery brands out there.

And their brand colors are brown.

And if you think about it, brown is a not, not a very nice color.

Like most companies want something flashier, more modern, more contemporary.

But in this book, it talked about the reason why, why UPS uses that color, why all of their trucks are this nasty shade of brown, why they're the, the workers, the uniforms.

Is this like khaki sort of uniform.

The reason for that is because this color, people mentally associate it with like, you know, like those plain paper packages that are like tied with string.

When people think of parcels and bundles or maybe Christmas presents, like you have this very, it's very homey, very handmade, very intimate.

Like a very intimate way of packaging and giving someone something.

And so UPS understood that feeling and they wanted to capture and have that feeling across every single touch point.

So they use the color brown very intentionally because they know that it evokes that sort of like handmade, like family to family sort of feeling with specifically the way that they just even use the color and like the way that they dress their workers.

So yeah, like just some small, tiny little things like that.

It.

You'll never look at companies the same way ever again when you like, understand this.

But yeah, that's just one of the examples that I could think of off the top of my head, like from this book.

Yeah, that makes me want to read it automatically.

It's so cool, isn't it?

It's like so fascinating.

Maybe I'll ruin the world for you, but you'll never see companies the same way ever again after you read this book.

That's so funny.

What do you think makes a creative business stand out?

And what is one piece of advice you'd give based on your experience on how they can make their stand out?

Yeah, I Think the biggest thing that you can do is to know what your vibe is and just to rock it.

I know there's a lot of businesses that chase trends.

They're like, oh, this is the thing that's cool now.

So I'm just going to do that.

But we know that trends are very fleeting, and now with the age of the Internet, like, in a day, like, it's.

People are over it.

But when you understand what your vibe is and you just stick with it and as long as it's actually, like, aligned with who you are, we're not trying to fabricate something because we want other people to like it.

This is just what feels the most true and natural to you when you stick with it and, and you're brave enough to turn up the volume on it.

Like, you're not afraid to be upfront about.

This is who I am.

This is what I'm like.

This is what my vibe is.

It's actually, that's.

That's basically it.

I feel like there's so many people who spend time, like, doing so much research, looking around at everyone else around them, and they look everywhere but inside, which is where you should be starting.

I'm like, you, you're, you're.

You are one of a kind.

We are all different people.

And what comes naturally to you is that's already.

That's.

That's your secret sauce.

That's your special thing.

And if you were just a little bit more upfront about that, you got the rest of your marketing covered.

Like, you're looking at all of the wrong places.

So I'd say, like, a lot of people look outside for a lot of the answers, but you have to start with inside.

This.

This sounds like a very existential conversation, but that is the one thing that you have that is different from everyone else, because there's a million and one brand designers out there, there's a million and one other artists, but no one has my story.

Nobody is exactly me.

And so I'm going to milk and monetize that for as much as what it's worth, because that is the only thing that I have that is original.

So, yeah, that's.

That's the main thing that I have.

Look inside, figure out who you are, what makes you special, and then just crank the volume up on that max, blow out the speakers, and I promise people will remember you.

Yeah.

Literally everything else is, like, replaceable or copyable or, you know, whatever.

Obviously, AI has showed us that everything can be copied and will be copied if there's Money to be made there.

So.

But they can't copy you because you're the only person that's living your life, has your perspectives, your input, your outputs, all this stuff, like you are you, and.

And that's the only way to stand out, right?

Exactly, exactly.

And even the way that AI works, it is amazing and incredible, but it still draws from currently existing reference points.

It can't create something from scratch by itself without those reference points.

And that's the only thing that we as humans have on top of it.

Unfortunately, we're feeding it a lot of stuff right now.

So it's getting smarter and smarter, but its ability to create something that's completely original without reference points, that's just not how it works.

So I think there are still some things about being human that is beautiful.

The fact that we are messy, like we're imperfect.

I think people are starting to seek that out more now because in the age of AI, everything is so perfect and people are starting to get tired of it.

Like, you could tell when something was written by AI, you could tell when something was generated by AI and, and it's cool and it's great, but I think people are starting to crave.

They're like, I want the real thing.

People are starting to question, like, was this made by a human or was this made by a robot?

And so I think people are starting to want the other stuff.

We've tried the AI thing.

I think it's cool, but.

But we still, like, we want the human touch.

And so it's interesting just to see how like the evolution of the human race now the AI has become a thing just to see how we organize and arrange ourselves accordingly.

Yeah, I mean, for now we'll see what happens.

For now we'll see.

They could just become, you know, self create or whatever, but we're not there yet.

While you can knock on wood, who knows?

The robots are coming for us.

I don't know.

Like those, all the sci fi movies can talk about that stuff.

And you see it start to happen in real life.

You're like, oh, okay, I know.

Scary.

It's like, like guys like the war, the writing was on the wall, like, why are we doing the thing?

It's like, you know in horror movies when like a character's going into the basement and you're like, don't go there.

Like you know what happens, but they go anyway because that's how it's written.

It's like this.

But like in real life where we, we've already predicted this all of those sci fi novels and we, and we're literally still going in that direction.

We'll see how it goes.

I, I want to say I have faith in humanity, but I think we're actually seriously messed up.

And I don't, I don't have faith that, but I hope that like the, those of us who use this beautiful technology in ways to help and improve the experience we have on this planet, I have faith in, in, in, in those people.

So we'll see, See what, we'll see what ends up happening.

Yeah, it'll be interesting for sure.

We're just starting, so we'll, we'll see.

Maybe not in our lifetimes, but in our descendants lifetimes down in the future where, where stuff could get very interesting if humans will even be here.

Who knows?

Yeah, who knows?

We'll, we'll, we'll find out.

May they find this recording and be like, oh, so this is what it used to be like like back then before these, these creatures got wiped out.

Yeah.

Like maybe the hu, the robots will one day be like, oh, so the race that inhabited the planet, this is what they were like, ew.

Like, oh God, I'm so glad they went extinct.

Like, who knows?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Can you give the listeners a challenge that they can take action on right away to start standing out?

Yes, this is going to be very similar to the advice that I gave before.

But, but ask yourself a very simple question.

Okay, maybe two simple questions.

Who are you actually?

And how do you want the world to see you?

So the first question is obviously the most important.

Like you have to really dig and get to the core of like, who are you as a person, as a human being?

Like, who are you and how do you want the world to, to see and understand you?

And that was literally.

Those are literally the two questions that I asked myself that like, set me on this journey.

This might be a lifelong conquest to find answers to those questions, but maybe even ask yourself that question once every six months and the answer will shift.

But knowing the answer for that will really help you decide where you want to be going.

So instead of just going through life and being like, I'll see where it takes me.

And living like, like being like a jellyfish, you know, just floating around and seeing what happens.

It helps you construct the experience with a little bit more intentionality.

So you could be like, oh, well, I know that I want to be this type of person, so I'm going to start taking actions that bring me closer to that goal so at least you know which direction you're swimming in.

And then maybe you could set a checkpoint for yourself every six months.

And then you could be like, am I still happy or do I want to go in a different direction?

But at least you're moving towards.

Towards something.

So, yeah, I'd say just marinate on those two questions, maybe do some journaling about it and put some serious thought into whether or not those answers that you find for yourself might determine where you want to be taking things for your life.

Not even just for business, just for you as a human being in general, if that ends up shifting or affecting the way that you want to start showing up in the world.

So I'll just leave that there with you, you awesome.

Well, Rachel, it's been a pleasure talking to you.

It's been really fun and you have a lot of great wisdom to share.

Can you let people know where to they can find you?

Absolutely.

I like to say that my home is on Instagram.

That's my happy spot to hang out.

My handle is Rachel Ty Lee.

Ty are actually the initials of my middle name.

Otherwise if I just put Rachel Lee, you will not be able to find me at all.

I'm also on LinkedIn, though I do still spend quite a bit of time on there, mostly because I have to for the business.

I prefer to be on Instagram, but feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn as well.

Probably you'll still be able to find me underneath that handle.

I'm on Facebook sometimes and of course I've got my website.

So I guess I'll make sure you've got the links to that in the case you need to share it in the description.

But I'd say Instagram is the best place to connect with me.

Cool.

And then if you have a Twitch handle, you can share that too.

Is it going to be the same?

Absolutely.

It's like a.

It's actually.

I think it'll go underneath my other.

My, my.

I'm just going to call it my artist name at this point.

It's going to go under Kyrie.

And so I'll make sure you get a link to that as well.

There are literally zero subscribers on there right now.

It's like butt ass naked profile.

But I hope to populate it with something in the near future, maybe even tonight.

I'll work on the about description description.

So we'll see.

But I'll make sure you get a link to that as well.

Yeah, by the time this releases, you should have some followers on there.

Yay.

Absolutely.

But thank you for asking about that.

It's very new, but I'm excited to be putting it out there into the world.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Well, yeah, it's been a real pleasure talking to you, Rachel.

Thanks for coming on.

Yeah, thank you for having me on your show.

This has been amazing.

Okay, bye.

Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Standout Creatives.

If you're feeling stuck, let's chat and see how we can help you start standing out instead of burning out.

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Head to standoutcreativebusiness substack and if you have any thoughts on this episode, just want to chat.

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Thanks again for tuning in and as always, lean into your creativity and curiosity.

I'll see you again on the next episode.