Leadership isn’t about titles—it’s about showing up with empathy, kindness, and genuine care for people.

In this episode, I sit down with Traycee Mayer, author of The Leadership Contradiction, to discuss her refreshing take on modern leadership. Traycee shares how her experience in the hospitality industry shaped her belief that caring for employees directly translates to better business outcomes. She emphasizes the importance of self-care for leaders, the power of connection, and how true leadership begins with being present and intentional.

Traycee also dives into the challenges of post-pandemic leadership, the value of in-person interactions, and how leaders can bridge the gap between professional results and emotional intelligence. Her message is clear: when leaders lead with love, trust, and compassion, everyone wins.

Highlights:

• Discover how empathy and kindness aren’t just “soft skills”—they’re essential tools for strong leadership.
• Learn why taking care of yourself is one of the most important steps to becoming an effective leader.
• Explore the value of creating genuine connections with your team to build trust and long-term loyalty.
• Understand how in-person interactions can strengthen team dynamics in ways virtual meetings can’t.
• Gain insights into how intentional leadership practices create sustainable success for both teams and businesses.

Connect with Traycee:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trayceemayer/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theleaderpaths/

Book: The Leadership Contradiction - https://a.co/d/8OoM07a

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A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile:

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by taking the

3 Card Sampler – you won’t regret it.

AND … Don’t forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and be eligible for my

complimentary LinkedIn profile audit – I do one each month for a lucky

listener!

Connect with me:

http://JanicePorter.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/

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Music. Hello everyone, and welcome to this

latest episode of relationships rule. This as we record is our

first episode of 2025 I'm excited to have my guest with me

today, Tracy Meyer, welcome Tracy. First of

all, Oh, thank you, Janice. And I'm so excited.

Yes, it is the seventh of January, and we're getting used

to 2025 already. I know happy me. I'm so excited.

My pleasure. Tracy and I just met recently in

in the fall, and have had some great conversations about what

she does and what I do in our kids and our grandkids. And so

it's kind of, it's, it's kind of fun to have her on my podcast

and be able to share with you her expertise and her passion. I

think, for for what she does shows through. And I know that

Tracy wrote a book, had a book published last year called the

leadership contradiction, choosing a path of love and

kindness, and it kind of challenges, I think she

challenges the traditional leadership paradigms by

advocating for empathy, love and kindness as core leadership

principles. And I wanted to start there, because that's

actually in a way, yeah, against the grain, right? And so can you

talk to our audience about that and and what you think is it

like a path that you're leading to change people that way, or is

it something that you've noticed over the years, because I know

you've been in this industry of coaching for a long time. What

was it? How did that come to be? Oh

my goodness. So thank you for asking Janice. And

yes, I've enjoyed getting to know you, by the way, and it's

when we talk about our grand, grand babies. But so yeah, I

wrote the book that leadership contradiction was, which was

something I coined, kind of post COVID. I had been on a hike

during that time and doing a lot of reflecting, and at one point,

and I talk about this at the beginning of the book, I kind of

felt this, this something kind of caused me to pause and to

look kind of back where I had come from, on on the hike. And

then it was a canyon I had hiked for many years, and then look

forward and, and at that moment in time, you know, I was 55

years old, and, you know, I kind of felt like everything in my

life had, kind of like the decisions had been made and, you

know, my path was set, and there was this really incredible

moment where I thought, wow, the biggest decisions are still

ahead of me. And you know, it prompted me to start talking

about this thing that happened, and I had taken some notes for

myself. And you know, before I know it, you know, people were

saying, oh my gosh, you need to write a book about this, because

you do think differently about about the way leadership should

be. So I reflected back on on my many years, 40 years of

leadership, and I always have felt like it is important to

love and care for your employees. It's important to be

kind. It's important, you know, all of that is, is the driver

for success in business. Now, I know that there are other great

leaders out there, like, like Mary, Mary Barra, with, with,

with jams. You know, she's a huge advocate of kindness at

work and such. And there's some great success stories, and one

of them as well. You know, when I reflect back, my success was

because my employees felt cared for. They felt that, that I was

a leader and that they would follow me, you know, I didn't

have to look back and see if they were there. I cared about

them, and they knew I they, you know, I knew they cared about

me. And so, so that, that to me, is leadership. The leadership

contradiction, on the other hand, is, is a topic, or, I

guess, a title I coined, and I because I believe that leaders

disqualify themselves from being leaders. They can be called

managers or bosses, but when they don't really care about

their employees, and I mean, really take the time to know who

they are, you know what's important to them. You know how

they can help them succeed, you know, then, you know, don't call

yourself a leader, because they're probably not really

following you. They're probably just getting through their days.

You know, I know I've had a few jobs of that myself, even as a

leader, I've always had, you know, reported to the president

of the company, or whomever it might be. So yeah, it's all

based upon a path that I feel like I've been traveling, and I

have something new that I'm getting ready to release

probably next month, that I've been working on for a dozen

years, that exactly is tied into the pathways and how we how we

lead, whether that's a family or business. Business, a community

nonprofit, your neighborhood group, whatever it is. And so

yeah, that's a long answer to how passionate and excited I get

about leadership and and you know how we really can impact

other people's lives?

Well, I wonder. I'm curious about the fact I

know I think you were in the hospitality industry for many

years, and that's where your leadership skills were honed,

right in your path for doing that. And that, to me, seems

like that should be a place that that industry should be a place

where people care about people, because it's a whole thing about

looking after your guests, right? And is that true, or is

there a lot of the opposite that goes on, and so you had to fight

to make that change?

So I would say that that there's not a lot of

that like I wouldn't say that that is the overwhelming drive.

Yes, hospitality should be and mostly is focused in that way.

It could always be more, just like any kind, yeah, so in

hospitality, oh, I'm sorry. So it's okay. It's not only our

guests that are important, but I think that's, that's the part

that I want to talk about, that I think sometimes we are so

focused on the guests that we forget. It's about the employees

that make the success. So you So, as a general manager, for a

number of years in full service hotels, I said to my employees,

you know what? I will take great care of you. You take great care

of the guests. Because my job was really wasn't about walking

around, you know, with a big title and making, you know, X

amount of dollars or what have you, but, but at the end of the

day, I felt my my responsibility during that part of my career,

which is about 25 years of my career, that that it was to help

those people grow and help them feel appreciated and loved in

their workplace. So that is not always present, and I've heard

that today, as I as I continue to coach folks in that industry,

as well as others

well. You know, my daughter has, in the past

year, has taken on a role that's bigger than she's ever done

before, and she now has a team of about 10 people and that she

looks after. And so she's learning the next level of

leadership. And this was her first holiday season coming, you

know, with this group of people and everything, and she reverted

right back to what is her core, which is so lovely, which was

she had to make hand created cards for each of her people on

her team, as well, as, you know, and got them very thoughtful

gifts. And that is her to the core. And I thought, wow, Sarah,

you're going to put, you know, that's going to be something

that's going to stand out for each of them. I don't think I

said this to her, actually, because it was so thoughtful,

and it did mean, you know, something special. And so I was

that's what I think of. When you talk about what you're talking

you know, what you talk about. I think she's got that gene, and I

love that because, yeah, it's important to make people feel

special and important, because you give, they will give Right,

absolutely and, and I love that, and I'd love to

meet your daughter, because it is so true. You know, there,

there are so many schools of thought out there that that that

contradict what we believe is true, or what we see is true, is

because they say, Well, how can you, you know, spend your time,

you know, being so nice to people. You know, what about the

line? And it's like, you know what, we can't meet the bottom

line on our own, because that's not, you know that that is, yes,

important. That's why we're general managers, or we're

senior directors or leaders. But at the end of the day, it's the

employees who help drive that success of the company as a

whole, and and it does matter, and we can bring love and

kindness back to work. You know, for a while it had a bad name,

you know, I write about that in my book too. Love is not a four

letter word, you know, because, because some people did the

wrong things at work. And, and, you know, it became, you can't,

you know, you can't even shake people's hands. You can't pat

them on the back, but I'm here to say that we need to bring

that back, because you spend 40 hours a week plus with people at

work, whether or not you're, you know, virtual or, you know, on a

zoom all day, you're still spending time with those people.

And it does matter that you care for them and that you connect

with them.

You know, that's that's actually brings up a

thought for me, because since COVID, of course, there's still

a lot of people who are working in isolation at home, possibly

by choice, because it's just and maybe not on some regard. But. I

see in in some people that I know that that's hurting them,

because there's no social connection real people

connection with their organization and it I don't know

there's no love. There is what it looks like to me. Do you find

yourself talking to those kinds of companies and encouraging

ways to make that happen. Or, you know what?

I don't know? Yeah, absolutely. So you know, I

still do, because I moved across the country this this year, I

still do some virtual coaching, but I also I'll travel anywhere

in the world, and I like to do hybrid coaching, where, you

know, I can do a couple of sessions with someone online and

do some virtual coaching. And I think you can get, you know, you

can, you can, if you're, if everybody's open to being very

transparent honest, you can definitely make some headway.

But I like to also, when I'm working with teams, is after

I've done some private coaching online. Is, is go into the

office or, you know, meets, Meet the Team somewhere where we

could all meet in person. Because as great as we've been

able to get through virtual meetings, it is, it is true,

still, that that in person, contact is so crucial to us as a

human and, you know, there you can make even better headway. So

for everybody out there who is still stuck in the virtual

world, and there's, there's so many excuses, right? I know when

I was in California, it was traffic, you know, here I could

say because it's was six degrees this morning when I went to meet

for breakfast. But guess what? I got in my car and it was six

degrees and I went and met a client at a coffee shop about 10

minutes to my office, absolutely and I'm so excited and thrilled

that here in the Midwest, where there's snow, is crazy people,

even more than I've ever seen, love to meet in person. So snow,

rain, yeah, ice, we still meet. So I'm kind of joyful about

that. So yeah, it's time for us to continue, whether we're

networking or we're talking with a client, there is something

really special about looking at someone eye to eye. Yeah, that's

true. There is Yeah. It's been a while for me.

I tend to have become a bit more of a recluse since all of that

happened, but I'm getting better at getting back out there and

changes. It's changes things for sure. So there are a lot of

leadership coaches out there, and I know for me, I teach, I do

LinkedIn training. There's a lot of LinkedIn trainers out there

as well. So when somebody is looking at hiring you as a

coach, I pretty much think I know what you're going to say.

But what do you say is the thing that makes you stand out from

the crowd? What's your USP? What's your unique selling

proposition? Absolutely, so

I am trained by UC Berkeley, in addition to my

40 years of leadership, just to solidify the idea that I help

find heart and meaning and hold space for people to kind of get

unstuck and figure out where they're they're headed. I hear a

lot about that nowadays that you know, people aren't quite sure.

They don't have clarity. They don't know where they're going.

And I am a coach that you know has a lot of talent, like other

coaches out there, but with 4040, years of leadership and

this huge compassionate heart, I help leaders soften up a little

and find their inner kindness and focus on their employees,

because it really is about the employees. It's not about us.

We're lucky as a leader we get to, you know, make, make X,

amount of dollars, and, you know, be in a bigger office,

what have you. But it's really about the employees. So I help

leaders level up so that they can develop the people that work

for them.

So I think more about the business owner, the

entrepreneur, because that's more my audience than the big

corporations. However, it's leading. It's leading self,

first, right, and then being able to lead others. But when I

lost my training, thought I. Uh, something you said about the can

you teach compassion in people, or is that something you're born

with?

I believe that you can teach it. And I actually

spoke to a group of women entrepreneurs last Friday. And

first of all, what you said about, you know, being an

entrepreneur, you know, it's, it is Elite is a leadership

position. You're leading your business, or you're leading

yourself. And the topic of my talk was permission to love

yourself first. And that's directly out of my book. So I, I

had some things that I had developed over the years, that I

didn't even realize that I was doing, you know, or that other

people would care about it, I guess is what I'm saying. I did

this thing called, PS, I love you, where I would take a day

off in the middle of the week and just drive to Palm Springs

and stay in a really nice hotel, buy myself a really nice dinner,

go shopping, lay out by the pool, you know, that kind of

stuff. So this talk that I, that I'm giving to a lot of women's

groups right now is, you know, love yourself first. You know,

you may be a senior vice president at a large

corporation, you may be an entrepreneur and the only person

that you're working for. You may have a small staff, but you

gotta love yourself first. And so, you know, we come up with

with little exercise on ways that they can take care of

themselves. Maybe it's just going out and buying a bouquet

of flowers and a nice candle or a bottle of wine and taking care

of, you know yourself at night. Because I believe that if you

don't love yourself first, you can't love anybody else. You

just can't you get stressed. You get you get anxious, you know.

And a lot of times we get, we get hung up in that as leaders,

we feel like, you know, we got to just give, give, give to

everybody else, whether it's our family at home or it's our, it's

our, it's our neighbors or our community or or it's the

employees that work that's great. But I'm saying, you know,

take care of yourself first. And so, yeah, a lot, a lot of the

coaching I'm doing is directly out of my book. There's, there's

things that you can just, you know, tab the pages, which I've

heard people do a lot, and they, they just do something that I

talk about doing. And that's nice of them. Yeah,

that's really nice. So do you have an Do you

have an example of where applying those love and kindness

examples in a difficult workplace led to a positive

outcome, yeah,

absolutely, one of the things that that happened

recently, the client that I just finished up with the last year,

they they had five different locations in in a particular

county And and so different managers managing different

locations, and many of them had never met, and a couple of them,

and one in particular was, was the low, low person on the totem

pole, so to speak, right? They they weren't doing their job

very well. I actually often do test calls first, if it has to

do with sales or operations, which which, likely it is,

regardless, regardless of what business I will do a mystery

call first and talk to the person as though I'm a customer.

Oh, fun, yeah. And, and then I'll give a report back to the

client as part of the beginning of the coaching, so we kind of,

I can give them an idea of where I'm headed. Well, this one

employee, I called to book a nice piece of business with them

at their hotel, and I never got a call back. And so, so that was

on the report, and and then I, you know, I got to call the

person and say, you know, and make sure they took my call and

said, you know, this is not a, you know, gotcha. This is not

you're going to lose your job, but this is, we got to change.

You know what's going on with you, and find out what's going

on. Why didn't you return my call, etc. So I worked with them

and had a couple of individual coaching sessions, and then we

brought everybody together from all five locations. They were

all within driving distance. One was a couple hours away, but we

got everybody together, and we started talking about different

tools and skills to help them get better at what they do,

because they could all learn from it. And I didn't have to

point out nobody else knew that that one person had had that,

that really bad call. But I think, actually, I think they

ended up bringing it up to the group because they realized that

they were being treated with compassion, with kindness, their

boss cared about their success, and even though the boss

couldn't figure out what was going on, because they got boss

stuff, leadership stuff, to do, right? Yeah, that's my job as a

coach, is to go in and find out what's wrong and fix it. So.

Yeah. So, you know, several weeks later, I went and met with

the regional vice president, and the first thing out of his mouth

was, Tracy, everybody's talking about the success of this

person, that they were going to fire them, and now they're one

of the top performing persons in the company. So they invested in

me as a coach to invest in their employees. And I was, I had the

time because that's what I was there for, to find out what the

problem was, to inspire that person to fix it, and to inspire

them as a group and build connections with them. And yeah,

that was that was pretty awesome to hear that. And I had heard,

well, yeah, the owner of the company has been talking about

it too, so haven't had a chance to meet, meet that person yet.

But of course, I'm looking forward to it because, yeah,

people are talking about it. And I have, I have lots of examples

like that, thank goodness. But it's, it's fun for me. You know,

that's more rewarding than than what I get paid. Just to know

that people are succeeding, yeah,

for sure. And the fact that just the mere fact

that as an employee, one would feel that they're being cared

about, cared for by their their management team, is a lot. I

mean, there's a lot of people like me, though, that don't ever

want to work for somebody else. They want to be their own boss

and so, but they have to do all those same things. You have to

show people that you care. If you don't show them that you

care, there's no incentive, you know, right? Yeah, and you said

something else so earlier about and I think it was more in a

career perspective, but you said there's people who don't know

where they're going or what's next, or they don't have right

and is that really important in today's world? Because I also

thought when you said that, that we don't know what our next

thing's going to be, because we change our jobs, and we change

our careers, and we change our our businesses more often now

than we ever have. So,

right? So yes, and that's so profound in

itself, right? So what it was, yeah, absolutely true Janice and

that, and that's, that's really to my point of, yes, there's a

lot of coaches out there and of all different qualifications and

so on and so forth. But I really, I fully, believe that

people do need guidance today, and both the leaders and the Oh,

please.

I wasn't suggesting that they didn't

know. I mean, that we don't have to change

jobs. We don't have to change employees as much as we seem to

think that we do that with with a good reset of the leader as

well as the employees. You know, we can salvage these, these

people where they're not horrible, they're just having

had the right training, they have the right guidance. You

know, we do impact people's trajectory, you know, their path

and so, yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that up, because I'm

concerned about the rapid overturn of talent of people in

jobs. You know, my last example was, was that point exactly. It

cost them more money to replace that employee than to to buy, to

pay for a coach to go fix the situation and actually bring the

whole team up to a better notch. So it's a good it's a good

business decision. Your coaches and and I'm finding that more

and more, you know, I coach leaders, and they're having such

success, instead of them now taking the time to coach their

employees. I just got a call last week from another client

who said, Can you coach my senior team? You know, because I

got to do my job, and I thank you who you've helped love, you

know, bring, you know, bring me to a new level. But I can do the

same with their team, and it's going to be where, you know,

she'll come back and she knows what to expect, you know, of her

team being trained. So, yeah, I'm super excited about that,

because that hopefully I'm only one, one coach. I do work with a

lot of other coaches, though, you know. So you know, one, one

person at a time will, try to change, you know, the way that

things are going, but yeah, hopefully the message gets out

there. Yeah, investing in a good coach who knows what they're

doing. Yeah, yeah. That's

definitely, definitely more more out there

now than ever before. I know. Okay, so let's dive. Let's just

take a left turn for a second. And I know that you have a very

full life on your own. You're scoot your license, or whatever

they call it, certified scuba diver, right big time. And have

been many places in the world doing that. That's amazing. It's

not my thing. Amazing, but amazing nevertheless, yeah, and,

and you like to travel, right? A lot, yes. So what's the most

exciting place you've been scuba diving? Oh, gosh,

that's a hard one, because I think there's a

toss up between Fiji and the Philippines and the Maldives.

You know, they're all amazing in their own way, and yet, Hawaii,

on the island of Oahu, is still my very favorite place to dive.

The clarity of the water is better than anywhere in the

world that I've traveled. So

why scuba diving? What brought when did you start

that?

I started it. Let's see it's getting it's hard

to believe it's been almost 15 years ago now, I was managing a

hotel in Waikiki Beach, and it had been a long process of

buying the hotel, interviewing 180 employees, hiring them all,

training them, doing some renovation. The hotel is a

stunning hotel. It's they've done so much more since, even

since I left 15 years ago, but so Queen Kapiolani is the one of

the most beautiful hotels in Waikiki Beach. And at one point,

you know, I didn't want to stay there because I had other, you

know, still family, and I had rather responsibilities to other

hotels in California, so I didn't stay and then when I went

back to to help support the team, I had a lot of free times

on my hands because they were doing such a phenomenal job. So

I started scuba diving, and that's kind of it's really

simple, but today I do work my scuba diving into my experiences

as a leadership coach. And there's a lot of you know,

spiritual experiences, both with scuba diving and I do a lot of

hiking. I just came back from Spain recently, and, yeah, all

of those trips the last dozen years or so are actually going

to be part of my new Oracle deck, which will be yes next

month. Yes, finished.

Okay, yes, that. That sounds exciting. I want to

know about that. Yeah. So it's, is it? So it's a card deck that

you just will pick one as or is it's not like tarot cards. It's

like, yes, pick a card a day kind of thing and see what it

has to say exactly.

And so an Oracle deck is, is just gives you, it

gives you, like, a suggestion on the direction that you're going

in. And so the my, my deck is called the leader paths Oracle

deck. I'm working on getting it to the printer this week,

actually, and it's 7075, photographs of places I've

traveled in the world and through, like I said, hiking,

scoop. There's some underwater pictures. There are, you know,

just a lot of different, different things that are have a

lot of really strong meaning to me. So I'll be producing some of

the the photographs in artwork that people can hang on their

walls as well. So yeah, you know, but at the end of the day,

it's so each one has a message for your path. So as your path

as a leader in your workplace, your path is leader in your

family. You know, your local church. You know, whatever it

might be, we all need guidance on where our path is going. So I

hope it will be very inspirational to,

Oh, sounds like it? Yes, definitely. So just a

couple of random questions I like to ask. My favorite word is

curiosity, and so I like to ask my guests whether you think

curiosity is innate or learned, and what you are most curious

about today. So two parts to the question. Well, the

first part, I think that part of it is innate,

but but it you can be trained to go, to be more curious. I think

it's a good habit to get in for us to be more curious. And

again, that that comes back to leadership, that comes back to

coaching. I think I've always been a curious person, but I

think my time spent at Berkeley, the Coaching Institute, they

actually teach you about framing questions with curiosity to the

clients that we coach Yes, so that allows me to answer that as

an affirmative on both, both cases. Okay, and then, what am I

curious about today? I'm curious about how I can, how I will

continue to be creative and artistic in this way that I had

never imagined, writing a book, doing this oracle deck, doing

custom workshops for leadership, and especially with right now,

talking to women about self, love, all of those things.

Because I'm curious about where my path is going, right, right?

Because, because it's exciting and it's fun, and I feel like

I'm combining this, the Spirit and of creativity and my heart

of kindness with what I do for a living. So how lucky am I?

Yeah, that's really special. I feel the same

way, in the sense that I'm always talking about gratitude

in terms of the clients that I work with, and how are they

showing gratitude to the people that they work with? Because so

often we just go next and we keep moving, and we don't really

show that appreciation that people need to hear and see

definitely, do Are you a reader or listen like do you like to

read real books still? Or do you read on an on a digital path? Do

you listen to auditory books? What do you do? Do you do

anything? Yeah, I

do a little bit of everything. I kind of mix it

up. I'm not I'm not stuck on one or the other. I think from one

to the next, I still have hard copies. There's, there's a

bookshelf behind me, so yeah, and I haven't done an audible on

my book yet. It's available on Kindle, and it's also on Amazon,

and a soft copy and Barnes and Noble. So I'm, I'm debating

whether I should, should do an audible version of my book,

because I know people have different ways of experiencing.

I know I'm drowning in books. And, yeah, I

don't read them all, you know, yeah, and I haven't decided on

using Audible yet, because that's just one more thing to

have a subscription to and that, you know, anyway. But, and are

you a movie person?

You know what? I don't watch a lot of movies, but

I actually did Sunday, I told myself I had the day off, even

though I was working on my finishing my card deck. I

watched that new wicked movie and at home, and I thought that

was fabulous. I've seen it. I read the book. I read that book

in Okay, oh my gosh. 20 years ago, I saw the performance at

the Pantages in Los Angeles, yeah, and so watching that movie

come to life was was pretty cool. And I wanted to see a

great

message, yeah, okay, I need to see it, but I

don't know if I'm going to get to the theater to see it, but

did it still work on the the big screen at home?

Absolutely. So, so you know, it's I shouldn't

say this. I don't want to give this away, but this is my

perception. So nobody's confirmed this, but this is my

perception that green witch, Elphaba, yeah, she never really

was wicked. She was misunderstood. Okay, yeah, okay.

She has a huge heart of kindness. It doesn't matter that

she's green,

well, and yeah, okay, I must watch it. Actually,

I might go see it this weekend. Thank you. Well, thank you. This

has been delightful. I always like to ask my guests if they

have one piece of wisdom they want to leave with my audience

around business, and then we'll call it a wrap.

Okay, so what comes to mind, first of all, is

your next the next client, or or employee, or might it be

yourself that you look at. So maybe you'll look at yourself in

the mirror, if it's you, or if it's an employee or a client, or

maybe it's a family member, ask them how they're doing today,

and we'll stop and wait for the answer. Yeah, we're all we're

all in too big of a rush, and we need to stop and realize that

the person in front of us, and that might be us, is really

important, and we need to take a moment to listen. That's

great advice. Thank you so much, Tracy. And

where can my audience find you? And I will put it in the show

notes as well,

yeah, absolutely, well, and certainly on LinkedIn.

But the best way to get in touch with me also is just go to my

website, b, u leadership.com and it's B, E, y, o, u

leadership.com there's a place on there where you can book 30

minutes to talk to me. My phone number is on there, email and

all of my other links, like Instagram and YouTube and and

LinkedIn. So okay,

thank you. Thank you so much. Appreciate you a

lot, and appreciate your wisdom. So thanks again, and to my

audience, thank you for being here and remember to stay

connected and be remembered.

Yay.