What’s the Story is a podcast full of stories about faith and courage from everyday people. In this episode, Brett Curry joins Matt to talk about his Christian journey, the heartbreak of his mother dying of cancer and the joy of parenting 8 kids.

If you've ever been through a tough time, this podcast is for you. It will inspire you and give you hope that no matter what life throws your way, you can come out stronger on the other side because God is good.

In this episode, Matt and Brett dig into:

• Friendship and ask if it is healthy for men to have close friendships with other men (the "bromance" trend)? And how being a good friend yourself is key to attracting the kind of friends you want.
• Brett's Christian Journey and how his parents became committed Christians after his uncle had a huge spiritual awakening and turned his life around. So Brett grew up hearing about Jesus, but it wasn't until his mother was diagnosed with cancer that he really started to explore his faith - experiencing God's grace calling to a deeper relationship with him.
• Brett meets Britney (the future Mrs Curry) and married 22 years ago whilst still at College and now has eight, that's right, 8! kids. Brett talks about how they didn't really fight about anything major until their kids became teenagers!
• Marriage Counselling was transformational for them and helped them to communicate better about difficult things, and one exercise, in particular, was super helpful for them.
• Main learnings as a parent: we have a lot of influence over our kids, but we can't control everything, the most important thing for kids is to know that their parents love and support them and that our kids belong to God, not their parents.
• The more we give ourselves over to God, the more truly ourselves we become. This is because God created us and knows us better than we know ourselves. Brett struggled with identity when he was younger but found that giving himself to God helped him find his uniqueness. The overall message is that regardless of what life throws at us, God is good.

It was pretty rough, you know, weird for a 15 year old to, to process that.

It really shaped who I was and who I am.

And, and, uh, it was, it was lung cancer.

the two big things that you do in life.

You get married and you parent and nobody teaches you anything about this.

No, exactly.

You don't, You don't have a clue like you're making it up as you go.

Literally making it up as you go.

you don't attract what you want, you attract what you are, right?

And so sometimes you gotta focus on like, I just gotta be a better friend.

Like if I want better friends, I gotta be a better friend.

Welcome to, What's the story?

My name is Matt Edmundson, and this is a podcast full of stories about

faith and courage from everyday people.

And today I'm chatting with Brett Curry about what it's like to grow

up in a Christian home, only to be faced with the passing of your mum.

When you are still a teenager.

But before we get into that with Brett, uh, one of the things I want

to do is give a shout out to past guests and episodes that we've,

and topics that we have hit on.

And I thought it would be great to mention, uh, one of our live streams,

What does the Bible say about grief?

You can check that out.

That's available on the website as well as, uh, going deeper

than coffee shop friendships.

Oh yes.

What a great talk that was.

Uh, you can find these in our entire archive of episodes and livestreams on

our website for free, www.crowd.church.

And whilst you're there, why not sign up for our newsletter and

each week we will email you all of the links along with the notes.

Uh, from today's conversation with Brett goes directly to

your inbox totally for free.

It's totally amazing.

So, uh, just sign up to that and you'll get it each and every week.

You'll never miss annother episode of What's the Story.

Amazing.

Now, this episode is brought to you by Crowd Online Church.

Brett, you know as well as I do, right, that not everybody wants to

go to church and not everybody can get to a church building, and this is

where online church works super well.

Uh, it's a safe space to explore the Christian faith.

And the thing that I love about Crowd Church is that you get

to join in the conversation.

Uh, they don't just talk at you.

So if you've never been to church before or if you're looking for a

new church, Check out Crowd Church.

The website is www.crowd.church.

Or if you've got any questions about the Christian faith or about church, you can

email me directly at matt@crowd.church w ith any of your questions.

Awesome.

Now, Brett is a seasoned entrepreneur.

We met.

Because of, uh, uh, just crossovers in the digital space, uh, he's such a legend.

You're gonna enjoy this conversation.

Brett is a husband and a father of eight.

You heard me right eight kids.

He is a basketball coach and still finds time in all of this to

host bible studies in his house.

Uh, while doing all of that, he currently lives in Springfield, Missouri, right in

the middle of the country and apparently.

Another thing we share in common is we are both fans of the Kansas City Chiefs.

So yes, go Chiefs.

What can I say?

Brett, thanks for coming on the show.

Great to have you here.

How you doing,

Matt?

Uh, just delighted to be here.

Super excited and I'm doing great.

I'm doing fantastic and I love what you do with this podcast and so

just, just happy to be a part of it.

Oh, you're a legend.

Thanks for coming on.

Now, it's fair to say this is the third podcast we have recorded , uh,

together, so we're We we're becoming quite, quite familiar with each other.

I think

we're getting very acquainted, man.

I'm, I'm really, I, I'm, And what's cool, Matt, I will say this.

I think I like you more.

With each episode, so that's good , and at least we're keeping it fresh, right?

We did like digital and eCommerce and then leadership, and now we're talking faiths.

We're keep, We're keeping it fresh.

Yeah,

we are keeping it fresh.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It's good.

No, it is good fun.

Some might say we've got a little bromance going on here.

Brett,

bromance.

I'm not opposed to the bromance.

I think there's nothing.

I think sometimes that a little bit.

It's good.

So,

Yeah, absolutely.

I totally agree.

It's interesting actually, um, totally off topic here, I didn't plan to talk

about this, but one of the things, um, that has intrigued me about men in

church, uh, Is some of the men I know have very good friendships with other men.

Right.

And that's actually quite healthy, you know, back, I mean we joke

about the Bromance thing, but the sort of friendships with other men

thing is quite a powerful thing.

Do you, is that something that you have found?

I mean, I know we have a mutual friend in, in Jared Mitchell and you know,

we both rave about him, but do you, do you have close male friendships

and do you find them helpful?

I do have a few good close.

Guy friends who are also strong in the faith so that they're believers

and they're, and they're committed, their families and they're doing good

stuff in, in business or in their, in their profession or whatever.

But I will say it's pretty hard to find.

And I, and I think one of the trends that's been happening, especially

in the, the church in the US is that there are less men kind of engaged and,

and serving and committed in church.

I don't, I don't know why there probably some theories and

some things out there, but.

But it, it is harder, it's harder to find that, that group of guys

that you, that you connect with.

And, and for me, I'm, I'm a little bit picky in who I hang out with, Right.

I, I, I, I, like talking to anybody, but in terms, and I'm a very social

person and I really like people from, you know, diverse walks of life.

Mm-hmm.

. But if I gonna be really close friends or hang out with somebody, like I'm

a little bit picky, you know, So I wanna, I wanna be around someone who's

like going in the same direction as me and, and committed to the same

things I'm committed in, and I'm not.

Sitting around and like playing video games all day long.

No judgment if you are, but like, you know, dudes that do that,

I'm like, eh, I'm probably out.

I love, I love you, but I'm probably out.

Uh, so yeah, I've got a handful of, of really good friends

and that's perfect for me.

Um, so yeah, very grateful for that.

We, I didn't have that early on in, uh, my marriage.

Like my wife, I got married pretty young and we didn't

have super close friends that.

Our age and like committed to the faith and growing, but, but

thankfully that's developed.

Um, starting about 15 years ago, we, we started an in home bible study and

it just became some of, some tremendous lifelong friends through that group.

. And was that something then you

your early twenties, newly married?

Yeah, we did.

We intentionally started a life group where we just kind of felt, I've always,

I've always enjoyed teaching and sharing.

Mm-hmm.

and I've taught a little bit in, in youth and, and preached in like

very small capacities and stuff.

But, but I've always enjoyed it.

So we decided to host an in-home group.

Uh, the first group we hosted was kind of rocky.

Like, it was, it was weird.

What?

We didn't really connect with anybody that was in the group, but we did it, you

know, And then that kind of disbanded.

And then we had a group that met in our home for 10 years, uh, before

people kind of started moving and going in their own direction.

And it, to this day, and that was 15 years ago, um, some of our closest friends and

so yeah, we just felt called to do it.

Mm-hmm.

and, and then God really blessed it and it was amazing.

No, it's fantastic.

There's something about, I think, intentionally creating friendships with,

for, I'm talking about men now, but um, there's something about men intentionally

creating friendships with other men who are able to encourage you in your faith

that is insanely life giving, right?

Yep.

And I think if you are isolated from that, that that's actually

quite a hard road to walk.

It is.

And, and I've heard people say, you know, well, I mean the Bible even says like, uh,

bad company grips, good character, right?

Like, who you're around influences you.

I've heard, I've heard other people say that you're the average of the

five people you spend the most time with, you know, which, which, uh, I

spend a lot of time with, with kids.

So I dunno what that means.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

. Yeah.

Uh, but, but it's true.

Like you need who you're around.

Impacts the way you, you think and act like if you're around people that, just

to give a non-spiritual example, like if you're around people that are active

and work out and eat healthy and stuff, you're probably gonna do that, right?

If you're around people that's true, that don't, and they're sedentary, you'll

probably gravitate towards that too.

So, so the people you're around, and I think for, for guys, it's

harder potentially to find.

Committed, faith filled, you know, good, good dads, good husbands, like just

good examples that we can hang with.

It's, it's more difficult.

So you gotta be intentional.

You gotta really try make it happen.

You have, and you've gotta put yourself out there as well, right?

You've got, I think you, you know, you've, you've gotta be

the friend that you want to be.

Uh, Yeah, and I think sometimes you have to be that first, if that makes sense.

You know, a lot of people totally are like, Well, I, you know, I

invited somebody around for dinner once, and they, they said, No.

So why?

And I've, I've not got any friends.

I'm like, Come on, you know, let's, uh, let's have a little, let's try, man.

Yeah, just gotta keep trying and, and yeah, like for us, the first

in-home group we, like, we felt called the hosting in-home group.

And the first one was like, we're not even enjoying this.

Like, this isn't even very good.

And, and, and so, but we kept doing it and, and got better at leading

and hosting and stuff like that.

And then that group kind.

Naturally dissolved.

And then we started another group later and it was, it was beautiful.

It was amazing, you know.

Um, and so actually what's really interesting, we, uh, this, this past

Sunday at church, our pastor was talking about, uh, this principle

that you don't attract what you want, you attract what you are, right?

And so sometimes you gotta focus on like, I just gotta be a better friend.

Like if I want better friends, I gotta be a better friend.

Right.

If I wanna be around people that are going places, like I need to work on myself too.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, put yourself out there.

Totally agree.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

So there you go.

Freebie for any listener.

Uh, develop your friendships.

Uh, same sex friendships that are life giving is just a brilliant thing to do.

Yes.

So you mentioned that you got married quite young.

Um, And just rewind a a little bit before that.

Uh, how did, let's, let's start at the beginning.

How did you sort of wind up as a Christian?

Was it sort of pre-marriage or

post-marriage?

Yeah, it was pre-marriage for sure.

So my, uh, my parents really, uh, Started following Christ, like became committed

to the faith when I was about three.

So Oh wow.

Nobody on either side of the family was really committed to anything,

just kind of doing whatever.

And, uh, my dad's younger brother, like, got radically transformed, Right.

Spiritual awakening got saved, um, from a life of crime and craziness.

Right.

Oh wow.

And, uh, he became a preacher, right?

So like, Drug addict to, to preacher, like really radical transformation.

This was your uncle?

This was my uncle, yeah.

Uh, so then over time he was like, you know, sharing the faith with other people.

And eventually my dad was like, Okay, this, this is real.

Like I want this.

And so, so I was about three when that happened when my dad, you

know, became a man of faith and.

So I grew up hearing about Jesus, right?

And so, at a young age, I was like, I was into it.

I was like, This is cool.

This makes sense.

You know?

Yeah.

I'm, I'm, I'm committing to this.

Uh, I think like most people then, then, uh, started exploring and

wondering, and doubting, you know, as I got into my young teenage

years and like, what am I thinking?

What, you know, what do I believe about all this?

And then, uh, it was really through a, a process, uh, of my

mom getting sick, uh, with cancer.

And then passing away when I was 15 that, that like, God, really,

I feel like God spoke to me.

Not, not audibly, but just like in my, in my heart, like, and, and drew me to him.

And then, and then oddly enough, the same uncle that I referenced

before, I went to stay with them for a while after my mom passed.

And just a, just a quality example man.

And I saw something in him.

I saw this confidence and this purpose and this peace.

And I was like, I know why he's got that.

That's Jesus.

Right?

Like I know, I know.

That's why he is.

Got it.

That's when it got real for me, when I was like, All right,

I'm, I'm, I'm in on this, right?

I'm gonna start like reading scripture and seeing what God has to say about life.

Like what does God have to say about me?

What does God have to say about life?

I'm gonna pray.

And, and so God really did a, did a work there.

So it was kind of my younger teenage years, like, uh, junior,

senior year of high school is when things got real for me.

I, I grew up knowing the faith, you know, for sure.

But that's when things got very real for.

So I, I've just pulling back on some of the things you talked about there, if I

can, You talked about your mom passing away from cancer when you were a teenager.

Yeah, it was lung cancer.

Yeah.

Wow.

So she, um, never a smoker, but people in her family were, you know, um, and,

and so don't know, but this was the, this was the, the early to mid nineties.

So she, she passed away in 95 and, uh, so a little less advanced

when they, when they found it.

It was pretty, it was pretty advanced.

It was like stage four.

Pretty, pretty gnarly at that time.

So, so when they discovered it, she battled it for 16 months.

Um, but it was, it was a pretty rough 16 months.

She, she showed tremendous strength, just like, kept, kept.

The faith was just encouraging to people, like encouraging

people that came and visited her.

It was, it was truly, amazing to, to watch, um, the, the grace

that she had through that process.

It was pretty rough, you know, weird for a 15 year old to, to process that.

Yeah.

And, um, yeah, so it really shaped, shaped who I was and who I am.

And, and, uh, it was, it was lung cancer.

So in the UK around that sort of age, the sort of 15, 16 year old, you're

taking high school exams, right?

Um, it's quite a, it's quite a, a key time.

Uh, I mean I suppose every year is quite a key time in your development,

but that is particularly key way your education's concerned.

I dunno if it's the same in the States, but did that, did that derail you?

in any way.

It didn't derail me as far as school goes.

That was something that, that I always did pretty well at.

Um, it, it kinda, I found out, or, or, or she was diagnosed as I was leaving

what we would call junior high or middle school or whatever, and going into high

school, that's where I found out she was, she had cancer and then it was,

you know, about, about 16 months later.

So actually it was the, It, it was the summer before my sophomore year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and so sort of before my second year of, of high school.

And so no, it didn't really derail school that just, I don't know, this was

always kinda, I just did it, you know?

Um, but it shifted my thinking for sure.

You know, I was still like this awkward kid that, that hoped to

impress girls and, and make people laugh and, and be popular and stuff.

But I also.

Stopped caring about some things, right?

Where just everything in perspective when you're dealing with life and death

and you're not as worried about people don't like my shoes or something.

I don't know.

Yeah, I really, I matured very quickly in some areas.

In some ways I was still a goofball, but, but, uh, yeah,

it shifted things, um, big time.

It didn't impact school.

I think I actually probably just did more stuff, you know?

Yeah.

Cause of, like, my dad was busy and, and my sisters had moved out on the youngest

of three, which was just me and my dad.

And so I was like, Well, I'll just be busy, you know?

So played sports, you know, stayed after school, stuff like that.

So, So no, education was fine, but it, but it definitely, I

mean, You know, completely upends, uh, life and what's normal, you

know?

Yeah, no, I imagine it does.

Geez.

So the, it's interesting to hear you talk about how when this happened,

it kind of cemented your faith because you, I don't, I hear a lot

of stories of people going, Well, you know, why did God let this happen?

And, and because something bad happened, it, it derails their faith slightly.

Yeah.

But it seems to have had the opposite effect on, on you.

How, how, how am I reading that right?

You're totally reading that.

Right.

And I, I'm super grateful for it and, I don't know that I can fully explain why,

you know, there's even some people in my family that I think kind of ran from

the faith or ran other things because of the, the tragedy and the trauma there.

But yeah, all I can say, and I've got another really close friend of mine,

um, Who's actually a lot like Jared Mitchell, oddly enough, but he is

not, his name is, his name's David.

Uh, but he, uh, he lost his mom when he was 16, So like similar stories.

But, um, but we, we met later in life.

Uh, but he said the same thing where after my mom passed, I just, I felt God's grace.

I, I don't know like how to really describe it other than.

I sensed his presence.

Like he was just saying it's gonna be okay.

Right?

Like I just, um, in my spirit felt him speaking and felt that he was real.

And so I was like, Okay, this is gonna be, this is gonna be okay.

Right?

Yeah.

And so, I don't know.

I just, I sensed, I sensed that he was doing something and then kind of

the influence of, of my uncle and a few other key people kind of drove me.

All right, I'm, I'm gonna get serious about this, right?

I'm gonna, yeah.

I'm gonna actually dig in and look and see what does God say about life

and what does God say about, about, you know, being right with him.

And, and then as I started reading, as I started reading scripture and praying, I

was like, this is actually pretty cool.

There's a lot of power here.

There's a lot of power here.

There's a lot of encouragement, a lot of life giving here.

And so, so yeah, it, it, that tragedy, that trauma caused me to go deeper in

my faith rather than to, to run from it.

And I don't fully know why other than I sensed God's grace and, and

there was great influences around me that thankfully I, I paid attention.

Wow.

And how was your dad throughout this whole process?

Dad, dad's good.

So my dad's always been like, Mr.

Consistent, right?

So just like hard work, you know?

Never takes a sick day in 20 some years, you know, of, of work.

He, he's always been more in like the, uh, the trades or manual

labor, and I've always been like terrible working with my hands.

I'm, I'm a digital marketer.

My dad's a, was a mechanic and, and now kinda does maintenance stuff.

Mostly retired now, but, um, he, uh, he was strong in the faith as well.

You know, I don't, I don't know how I would've dealt with

it, like the, the, mm-hmm.

losing your, losing, losing your parents.

It's really tough losing a spouse, man, I don't even know.

I don't know what to do there.

Like, my mom, my dad were really close and so that was traumatic.

And so watching him, um, was, was difficult.

I didn't really know how to process things.

As a 15 year old, he got, he got remarried relatively quickly afterwards.

Which was kind of tough, that had some complexity to what was going on.

That actually was really rough for a while.

That got got way better.

God again, showed up and did great things kind of in this

new family unit that formed.

But um, but yes, definitely stayed committed to the faith, no doubt.

But I know he struggled.

Right?

I know, I know.

He struggled.

Which, who wouldn't?

Like you lose a spouse of 20 years, what was it at the time?

25 years or something?

Uh, I don't know.

It was a long time.

And so, so yeah.

So he struggled, but, but remains strong and steady for the most part.

So was grateful for that influence for sure.

Oh wow.

Wow.

So then your dad goes on and re remarries, uh, which introduces another level of

complexity, I assume, to the whole family.

Dude.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was weird actually.

It was really cuz um, who he remarried was nothing like my mom.

Like, totally different.

And so she's awesome.

Ladyship we're actually really close to this day.

They're not, they're not together still.

But, um, so he remarried a lady who's like the polar opposite of my mom,

which was super difficult for me.

We really butted heads like hardcore for a while.

Mm-hmm.

. But again, I had like, some people encourage me, like, Hey, just, you gotta.

He had to show kindness and show grace.

And so like I started praying for this new, as a, as a 16 year old or whatever.

I started praying for this new family unit.

Right.

And I think probably God changed me more than he, He changed like the family unit.

But things

. It's funny how that works,

right?

Yeah.

I'm praying for fix this, you know, And like, I think it was God changing

means, uh, but, but it was good.

And so like now my, he's my ex stepbrother and my ex stepmom cuz

they're no longer together, but they're like still super, super close.

Like we, we, my kids still call her grandma and they still hang out.

So it was like God did a beautiful thing there too, but it was, it

was, it was rough for a while.

Rough on My sisters were outta the house was rough on them.

Mm-hmm.

, um, created some tension in, in relationships and stuff, so, yeah.

So yeah, it was, uh, it was a little messy for a while, but, but, but again,

thankful that God can be that, uh, he works in messy situations, you know?

So, So almost like his specialism.

Uh, it feels like it is.

Yeah.

Like taking brokenness, taking.

Messiness, you know, taking what's dead and making it alive again.

Mm-hmm.

That's, that's what God does and so's what he did there, and

I'm, I'm super grateful that it,

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, uh, this is when you are sort of 16, 17.

So at what point do you meet the future, Mrs.

Curry?

Yeah.

So that, uh, it is interesting.

We, I actually, so we're in the same youth group, right?

Um, and I saw her, I thought, Man, that Britney Chambers is pretty cute.

Um, But I was, I was at like, like I said, I was at a different stage, right?

I like, I'd gone through this trauma.

I feel I just, I became, in some ways I became an adult, even though

I totally wasn't in a lot of ways.

But I wasn't really into the youth group.

I was like, some youth stuff is silly, so I just wanted to like go learn and I

was like going deep on studying stuff.

So I went to like adult classes, which seems a little pretentious

now, but I dunno, I just didn't wanna go to youth group.

So we didn't, uh, we didn't really connect, but I saw.

She was way cute.

Um, but then I actually met her dad, so I started volunteering and I

started serving in this, this ministry that kind of served underprivileged

kids and underprivileged families.

And so this, this is kind of an odd thing now, looking at 2022 versus, this

was in the late nineties, but I would go as a teenager with some other people.

We would go to like parks and play basketball and football and meet kids

like in, in rougher parts of our city.

And then say, Hey kids, would you like to go to a one day camp and you know, hear

the gospel and there's all this fun stuff.

And then I would go to, and if they said yes, then I would, you

know, walk with them to their house and talk to their parents.

And it was the weirdest thing that like we would, we would talk to

parents and I'd be like, Hey, we'll, you know, we'll come pick your kids

up and they'll be gone for a Saturday.

People would just be like signing the forms and be like, Yeah, just

get, get the kids outta here, . It's a different time now, isn't it?

Different time.

It's a different time now where I'm like, this is creepy.

Like I'm going to just meeting kids at the park.

Anyway, it worked.

I'm like, a lot of kids had great time.

It was all free for them.

They get to, you know, pet petting zoo and they got to hear encouragement.

It was awesome.

But anyway, so through.

I met Britney's dad, so we were like working together, serving

together, and just an awesome guy, like awesome leader, connected.

He really liked me like, so he was like, This is a pretty cool guy.

So, um, then once, so then Brit volunteers to be on the team.

So I, I was like 18, 19, I'm leading a team.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, and she volunteers to be on my team.

So I'm like, Okay, cool.

But she has a boyfriend, so I'm like, Dang it.

Dang . I remember my dad being like, my dad being like, Hey,

what do you think about that?

Britney Chambers?

Like, I can't talk to Brit.

She's on my team and she's got a boyfriend.

Anyway, , but thankfully Matt, that didn't last.

That boy, that boyfriend went away and, uh, So we, we started hanging

out and I think, I think her parents were encouraging it, which, you

know, that worked in my favor.

But, uh, yeah, we started, so we started serving together, started hanging out.

Um, when, when, when she was basically 17, I was almost 19.

And then, Got married like a year and a half later, So, so she turned 19 on

our honeymoon, which is just crazy.

Wow.

I, I was young.

Yeah.

And so young, like, I've got two kids now that age.

I'm like, I can't picture.

But I think, I mean, and they're awesome.

Like they're gonna be fantastic.

You know, young adults already.

Already young adults.

But again, I think it was like she was more mature.

I, again, I feel like, because, My life.

I was just like, I don't know.

I was like, I'm ready to be an adult.

Let's, let's do this thing.

Let's go.

You know?

Yeah.

And, uh, and so we got to grow up together and make all kinds of financial mistakes,

and other things together, which, which looking back was very valuable.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, but yeah, got married super young and then just decided, hey, let's have

like, you know, almost a dozen kids and

So anyway, but yeah, we did, we did ministry together for a long

time in the early days and yeah.

So that helped kind of solidify that relationship.

I remember when I was at uni, um, you know, some friends of

mine got married at university.

Uh, wonderful people, you know, wonderful people.

And, um, I remember at the time thinking, this is so cool that they

found, you know, their life partner.

I didn't get married until I was in my mid twenties, but they were like,

they were in their early twenties.

They were getting married and it was, they were like, I was just

like, I was pleased for them.

And then I was talking to someone about this other day, my son is

currently that, that age that people were getting married and you're

like, Oh, I don't quite know that.

This is quite a wise thing anymore.

. Exactly.

Yeah.

So we got married, um, Before my junior year of, of university, and then we

actually had, our first kid, we had Nate, who, who's our oldest, or Nathan.

So they're, they're like my graduation pictures, I'm holding Nathan.

Right.

Like we, uh, Wow.

So I was working full time, supporting the family, doing, you know, doing

the college thing or university thing.

And so, yeah, it was a unique road.

Like I wouldn't recommend it for most people.

I think it's probably not a good idea for most people, but for

us, like we were, we were ready.

It was right.

Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't change anything.

Mm.

Yeah, dude, we were, we were babies ourselves.

No doubt.

. That's crazy.

So, um, so you like this is what, 22 years ago, isn't it?

Somewhere around there.

I think you're two years behind me and marriages.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, . And so you guys, you and Britney have been married

22 years, Brett and Britney?

Uh, I Bri, yeah.

Yeah.

And, um, how's that been?

How's, how's, has it been 22 years of Unmitigated Bliss or have

you, have you had the odd hiccup?

I mean, you've got eight kids, so you know, somethings

obviously happen in the middle.

Yeah.

You know what's really interesting?

Um, you know, Brit and I, we've always had a really close relationship.

You know, I've always told her, and, and, and this is true, like I'd rather hang

out with her than almost anybody else.

Like there's a, there's this friendship component and

there's like strong attraction.

Like, I'm so crazy about her.

I think she's beautiful and, and, and she feels the, the same about me.

And, and so like that, that, that core has always been there.

Interestingly enough, like through the early days when like the first business

that we started, Was up and down good years, some traumatic years that

never really caused strain between us.

It was, it was odd actually.

Like we didn't, we didn't really fight about money.

Um, we talked about it and we worked through it and we were

discouraged by a lot of things, but didn't really fight about money.

We started having kids.

We actually agreed on a lot of things related to little kids, like through

the younger age and toddler and stuff.

We'd have little spats.

We'd fight about little things, but it was actually.

not anything very major.

Interestingly enough, we um, didn't really have like any major fights

until we started having teenagers . So then teenage teenagers are weird, man.

If anybody, Well, a lot of people know, I know, you know, uh, uh, and you know,

but if you got younger kids, just hang on.

Like, I remember you don't wanna borrow trouble.

Don't borrow trouble from your future self.

But I remember people saying, you know, we have little kids.

Don't just enjoy this time cuz you have big kids, you have big problems,

you know, And, uh, okay, whatever.

I'm changing like 15 diapers a day here.

I don't, I don't, I don't think, uh, I don't think you can get any more

challenging, but, uh, actually my wife is probably changing more diapers than me.

But, but, um, started having teenagers and we just, we found we weren't agreeing.

We just weren't agreeing on, on like, when, when I was a teenager and again, you

know, different, different life scenario.

My mom passed, just me and my dad.

My dad was just like, You're kind of in charge of yourself.

Right?

And, and still great influence.

Like he was not an absentee father at all, but he is like,

just do your thing, you know?

And, um, Britney Sim was really structured and so I kind, I lean more towards a.

Just do your thing.

And she's very structured.

So we, we fought a decent amount actually about, about teenagers and um, had never

to the point like we're, we've always been super committed to each other.

So there's never a question about, well, this just isn't gonna work.

Um, but we were fighting a lot and so we actually, this is something I

recommend for everybody now, even if you're not in a stage of fighting,

we started seeing a counselor, so we found a Christian counselor.

A lady who's recommended to us from other people who's like really strong in the

faith and really committed to marriages.

Like I think you, I think you get into trouble by going to the wrong counselor.

You know, like, well, maybe you guys just aren't compatible.

Find someone else, you know?

So this counselor was awesome and, and, and she helped really transform the way

we communicated about difficult things.

And so that was transformational for us.

Yeah, my wife actually still sees this counselor just talking through

like personal growth and stuff.

Mm-hmm.

, which is amazing.

We didn't go all that long.

It was, um, Maybe six to eight months, or maybe it was a year.

I kinda bad with dates, but, uh, but it was fantastic.

And so now, uh, so we really worked through that period and, and now

that our two oldest are kind of, one has got a career, our oldest son

Nate's 20, he's got a career now.

And, and then our, our.

18, almost 19 year old daughters at university.

And so, uh, I'm turning British here at university.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm impressed.

I had noticed.

Yeah.

, she went, went away to college.

That's weird.

That's what, But, uh, she's doing fantastic.

And so we're working, we're kind of in this smooth space where we're

super busy, but we're aligned.

Right.

And, and, and.

Functioning pretty well, um, as, as parents.

And so now it's more just like how do we deal with the busyness?

How do we carve out time for each other?

Mm-hmm.

, how do we make sure we're giving, you know, giving it our all to both

our teenagers and our young people.

Cuz we, you know, we got from 20 to six as far as kids, so how do we.

Show up for them when they need to.

And so, but yeah.

But yeah, it's been, uh, it's been an amazing road.

I couldn't imagine doing this with anybody else.

I don't think anybody else could handle it.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, very few people could, um, other than her.

And so, so yeah.

That's kind of the, the quick ish story.

So who decided to do counseling?

Was that Brit's idea?

Was

that your idea?

It was her idea.

It was, Yeah.

I was fully supportive of it, though.

I was not like, I don't need no counseling.

You know, I was always supportive of it, but she had talked to some

friends who were seeing this counselor, like on a, on one, on one basis.

And so, so she met with, her name's Nicole, but she met with

Nicole, the counselor, and, um, just brought up a few things.

I think she just said, Hey, like, do you do couples counseling?

And she did.

And so, but as she mentioned, I was like, Hey, all for it.

Like if this is gonna help us, gonna make it better, let's do it.

And, uh, So, yeah, so it was very valuable.

And now I, I, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, I

like, I like sports where we're all in favor of having a coach, right?

Or even seeing a specialist, like mm-hmm , help me with my golf swing, or help me get

my basketball shot better, or, or, help me with, help me with my workout technique.

But we're not very willing to do that on the, the mental or emotional side

really help me, help me relate better to my spouse, help me communicate

about difficult things better.

Like I don't need that.

Right.

Got got the Bible, I'll just read that.

Which, which is an amazing tool.

Like it is an amazing tool, but.

Lot of times we need some guidance.

Yeah.

We help.

Yeah.

So

no, I'd agree.

It's interesting isn't it, the two big things that you do in life.

You get married and you parent and nobody teaches you anything about this.

No, exactly.

You don't, You don't have a clue like you're making it up as you go.

Literally making it up as you go.

Mm-hmm.

and uh, and I think there's always gonna be an element of that, right?

Cuz you can't fully be prepared to you get out there to start doing it.

But we, I think, yeah, we need more good mentors and examples.

I think that's what like the church is about, right?

When the church is healthy, that's what it's about.

But then I think also if you can like, see, see, you know,

getting even professional help at times can be really valuable

too.

Yeah, it's interesting actually, um, Dave Connolley, who has been on the podcast.

He's, he was also the founding pastor of the church that I go to, and Dave and

I have been close friends for 30 years.

I mean, the man is an absolute legend.

Um, but he is further on in the faith of me.

So he is, he is kind of a, sort of a dad figure, slow stroke,

sort of best mate stroke, Do.

You know what I mean?

He's just a, he's just a bloke who's just really cool to hang out with.

Yeah, and I was, I was talking to him about this whole marriage

counseling thing because obvious.

As he is pastor the church.

And as I pastor a church, you do get asked a lot of questions by

married couples as the pastor.

Yeah.

And he made this really interesting comment, he said, Um, what's interesting

is when you do counseling with couples who are in crisis, um, If they're in

the church, what can happen is they can drift away after the counseling

because as the pastor you learn so much about them as a couple.

There's something about them feeling a little bit insecure

that actually you know quite a lot of intimate details about them.

And so they sort of slowly drift out of the church.

And he said, It's really interesting how many couples come you for counseling,

but end up leaving the church.

So there is this sort of argument for saying, Go see an independent

marriage counselor, right.

Rather than your church pastor.

Yeah.

I think there's, there's a lot of merit there.

I think, you know, we, something that's pretty common in the United States, I'm

not sure if it's popular elsewhere, but like pre-marriage counseling, so, you

know, you're, You're about to get married and you meet with a pastor for a while.

Mm-hmm.

I think that's like totally cool.

Do that with your, your pastor.

Yeah.

Cause that, that's, that's pretty safe stuff.

But I could totally see that.

I think some pastors are really equipped for the heavy stuff mm-hmm.

To, to get into some of the more, uh, sticky details.

But I think there's some value in, in.

Keeping some things private and, and going to see that professional again, I

think you've gotta choose wisely, right?

It's gotta be someone that you, you agree with their stance on the faith.

Like if you're gonna really get into deep stuff, and obviously I think there's

wisdom to be had outside of the faith too.

I, I, I read, I read non-Christian books.

I talk to non-Christian people all the time.

That's really valuable.

But I think when you're looking at something like marriage, you just wanna

make sure you're getting counseling from someone that's got the right,

the view of marriage that you have.

Yeah.

Or they're not gonna tell you just to hit the, hit the eject button, you know?

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I, I, I think that has a, that makes a lot of sense.

Go see a professional at times.

Maybe not just your pastor.

Yeah.

No, very, very f So what was, uh, I, I mean, it was obviously a while ago, but

I'm, I'm, and you, you went to see them to help sort of learn how to communicate

with your wife under difficulty.

What were some of the takeaways for you?

. Yeah.

So, you know, one of the things that, one of the things that, that she had us

both do that, that was very personal, but then that translated into the way we

communicate and relate to each other is, um, there was a name for this process.

I'm drawing a blank now, but basically, uh, process.

You take 21 days to work on this.

Take a blank sheet of paper.

Cause it's good to just like write things on paper.

We talked about this in one of the other podcasts, right?

We're so digital.

Yeah.

It's kinda nice to write on paper, on occasion.

Take piece of paper.

On, on the left hand side, you write, Hey, these are the things

I struggle with about myself.

Like, I'm not, I'm not enough, right?

I'm not smart enough.

I'm not smart enough to run a business and parent eight kids, and I don't

have enough energy to coach basketball, and I'm, I'm not, you know, whatever.

And, you know, I'm fearful about this.

You write those things down and then on the right side, you write

what is, what is the truth, right?

What is the truth in scripture that God gives us?

That, that, that helps with that, right?

And one of the scriptures that I, that I've always loved is second Peter,

that we, we've been given everything we need for life and godliness, right?

Yeah.

So, yeah, so no, sure, maybe not enough on my own, but like

God's given me everything I need.

So God, God has called me to do these things, called me to be a dad of eight

kids and called me to be in this business and all these things like, God's gonna

equip me, God's gonna gimme what I need.

And, and then like fearful about certain things and good to talk about him.

I'm actually fearful about this guys, like even us, a spirit of fear, but

a power loving a sound mind, right?

Mm-hmm.

and, and so, Beginning to work through those things and

kind of renewing your mind.

So then when those negative thoughts pop up, or thoughts that are not true

pop up, you can balance it with truth.

So that was one of the most powerful things we did.

It was individual, but we both did it because we both found that, hey,

these negative things we're wrestling with, they, they clash with each other.

And so we start getting healthy mentally on our own and we, we,

we relate and communicate better.

Um, I, I think it was also important.

Uh, do you, have you ever taken the Engram test mat?

Do you know Engram?

I know what it is.

I've never actually done it

. Yeah.

So I, I am a big fan.

I, I don't think you can, you know, put all your trust in a personality test

or it's not, it's not everything, you know, but it's like, it's a data point

and it's, it's, it's informative and it can help, you know, help you better

relate, help you better understand yourself, how you better relate.

Anyway, I'm a three on the engram, which means I'm an achiever, right?

So I'm a, I'm an achiever and a performer, so I gotta be achieving things.

Uh, my wife is a, is a one.

And, um, she is like rule-oriented and process-oriented.

And, uh, so there are times when we really clash.

Mm-hmm.

, I'm like, not a rule keeper.

So I, uh, I can feel like she's judging me.

Mm-hmm.

, um, she can get the sense that I don't care, right?

Mm-hmm.

, so like we, we, as we start having these conversations, like, okay,

when you say these things, I get triggered and I feel judged.

When I do these things, you get triggered and you feel like, I don't care.

Um, so, you know, we're able like to, to walk through some of those things

and really just kinda get tools on, on how we, how we communicate better

about, about those tricky things.

Like, hey, you know, as we had this experience, you know, as we were

talking through this, I really felt.

Upset.

You know, I really felt a little bit angry or sad.

I was sad because I felt like we weren't connected, you know?

So like having tools to talk through without like judging, you know, without

saying like, yeah, hey, remember when you totally screwed up the other day?

Like, none of that.

Just like, Hey, when we did this, like it was, it hurt and here's why.

You know?

And, and so, um, so that, that was really valuable as well.

Yeah.

No, fantastic.

Fantastic.

And what's been your big, I mean, you've, you've got eight kids, right?

So you, you, you know, a thing or two about parenting.

If you could go back and have a conversation with your 20 year old self,

you know, your wife's pregnant with Nate, um, what would be the one piece of advice

you'd give yourself about parenting?

Yeah, I think the, the, the thing that I've shared with a few other

parents and that I would wanna keep in mind is, uh, as parents we

have immense influence, incredible influence, maybe the most influence

out of anybody else, right on the.

planet We have a ton of influence.

We don't have a lot of control at the end of the day.

Right?

We, you can't really control things.

Kids will be their own person.

Mm-hmm.

. Whether they just kind of fake it around you and then they're their

real self later, or they're one way at home, their way at school, like they

are going to be who they are, right?

Mm-hmm.

. But you can influence them greatly.

You can give them confidence and strength, and you can lead them to the faith, right?

That like, Hey, this, this is like, God is good, God is good, God is faithful.

God is awesome.

Like we have this, we have all this influence, but we start

trying to control too much.

Um, and often bad things happen, right?

Mm-hmm.

, so, so, um, limited control.

I think I would've, um, panicked a little less with, with our first right?

We're, and, and we've actually had to apologize to Nate, who's our oldest.

Fantastic kid.

He's got a sales job.

He's crushing, he's just doing so good.

But a few times we've had to apologize.

Like it's up being the oldest man.

It's up being the first cuz parents are figuring it out.

We're just, we're making up as we go.

Yeah.

We're making a lot of mistakes with you.

Uh, so, so forgive us for that.

Um.

But I, but I really, I like that, like we have a lot of

influence, not as much control.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, every kid is gonna be different, right?

Every kid is gonna be radically different, even in the same house.

They're going to be different.

And that's a good thing.

Um, and then I think really if kids know you love them and you support them and

you're for them, um, that's what they need more than anything else, right?

So obviously we, we still, we are parents, right?

We're not, Just friends.

Although I think that does develop, uh, we're parents, so like we gotta

help make decisions and when they're little, we're making decisions

for them and things like that.

We gotta say no to things and you know, be the bad guy on occasion.

We have to parent.

Um, but they need to know that, that like we're, we're for

them and we're in their corner.

And, uh, I also think we need to know that they really belong to God, right?

Ultimately.

Our kids are Gods not ours.

So we're, we've been given this responsibility to train

them and to, to raise them, but they don't really belong to us.

Right.

Yeah.

And so, so that, that should shift the picture just a little bit too.

Fantastic.

Fantastic.

Uh, Brett, as we sort of draw near to an end, um, cuz I'm aware of time, uh,

one of the questions I'd like to ask people is, what's your one message?

What's the one thing that you are really passionate about?

What would your answer be?

Yeah, I, This is a tough question cuz there's, uh, I found like when I'm

leading bible studies, I'll be like, Oh, this is one of my favorite scriptures.

. I say it like every week, like, Okay, well you say that every time

you open your mouth about scripture.

So.

So that's tough.

But, uh, one of my favorite messages, and I've used this with youth groups

and with my kids and with adults, and, um, and again, this, this is,

this is a Brit, right, which is kinda cool for this podcast, but I, I say

this in, it's all Americans as well.

But, uh, CS Lewis said, the more we give ourselves over to God.

The more truly ourselves we become because he made us, right?

Yeah.

He invented us.

He created us.

And I think there's this, there's this sense that I don't

wanna surrender to God, right?

I wanna be my own person.

I wanna be me.

And I definitely felt this in my own life, uh, when I was a teenager and I started

just committing my ways to God, right?

And, and then giving more of my life to him.

Yeah.

I had the freedom to be, I feel like my uniqueness came out a

little bit, like God kind of stoking that and banning that flame.

Where before I didn't really know who I should be.

And part of that was cuz I was like, like junior high kids, what do we know anyway?

Right.

So that part of that was the age, but I really struggled with identity

and who am I, I started giving myself over to the Lord though.

Like he just, he started to bring out this uniqueness and I could, I could be

me and, and so I think that's, That's one of those things, and that ties back to

the, the message that God is good, right?

In the midst of trauma, in the midst of success, in the midst of marital bliss

or marital trauma, like God is good.

And I think that, um, that, that ties into that as well.

So, so that, that would kind of be the, the message that

I would lean into the most.

I think

Wow.

So you are quoting CS Lewis, who is British.

You, you've changed your vernacular.

You're gonna call your daughter later and say, How's university going?

She's gonna go, Dad, What are you talking about

? Exactly, Exactly.

Oh man.

I, I, uh, we actually, we actually do British, We talk British accents.

The daughter who is at, at university.

Uh, we talk in British accents on occasion.

Um,

I would like to hear the British.

accent

Well, it's pretty good.

You know, we like to, we like to talk British every now and

then and just draw the faith or encouragement . That's probably horrible.

You're, you're, you're, you're British.

People are like this guy.

No,

that was, uh, that was pretty good actually.

You don't hear many Americans doing British.

You hear a lot of British people doing American accents in, I've

got a little bit of skill and we, we can unpack that anyway, so Yeah.

Yeah, we have.

We feel, I feel so much smarter when I talk in a British accent,

so yeah, exactly how it works.

Unpack it.

Yeah.

. It's funny, you know, Brett,

Carolina, uh, when I was 18.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's actually where I became a Christian, but that's a

story for another podcast.

But I used to live in North Carolina when I was 18, and this was pre internet.

Uh, so I just want, you know, the, this was, we just about had a phone

and a fax machine back then, right?

And, um, and because, uh, I talked with a British accent, you

almost became like a little micro celebrity in that sort of community.

Do, you know what I mean?

Because you're in gonna hear you talk.

Could you just read something for, read the paper or something so we can hear you?

Yeah, I

got, I honestly, the amount of times people would say, Can you just say.dot

dots how Do, you know what I mean.

Can you just say this phrase or this word and you'd like Okay.

Sayin Yeah.

Yeah.

Vase and vitamin.

And so we would send, and you know what, it was a beautiful thing.

Whenever I'd go into a shop.

Uh, in North Carolina, I would overemphasize the Britishness.

Yeah.

Of

my accent my

Oh, you gotta dial it up.

You gotta dial it up.

You people, people ate it up.

They loved it.

I'm sure.

Oh mate, the amount of free stuff I got was unbelievable.

give that British guy some free stuff.

He's gotta be smart.

He's gotta be smarter than all of us.

Oh, mate, it

was, it was a great time.

And let me tell you, I got, I, I remember getting pulled over by the

police for driving slightly too fast, cuz we had slightly faster speed limits.

Uh, and, um, given the, I shouldn't say this on a Christian podcast, but

I gave the, the police officer my driver's license when he asked for it.

Um, and in England that was, that wasn't a little photo ID.

It is now, but at the time it wasn't.

It was a big old piece of.

Uh, and I remember giving him my driver's license and he is like,

What, what do I do with the Yes.

And I'm like, I officer, I wish I could help you ask, what do you want to know?

Maybe I could help.

And he was like, And, and it was just brilliant.

And he was, Oh, you're from England?

I'm like, Yeah, yes.

I just don't drive as fast.

I said, Okay, I'll try it.

We're on the wrong side of the road.

Opposite . Get it.

It's great.

Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

Uh, Brett, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Listen, if people wanna connect with you, if they wanna reach out,

what's the best way to do that?

Yeah, absolutely.

So, uh, I'm on Facebook, um, so, uh, Brett Curry on Facebook.

I don't remember what the handle is.

I'm on LinkedIn, so if you're professional, wanna I'm

easy to find on LinkedIn.

And then also, We've talked about this now a few times and I've even

talked to my assistant about this.

We're planning it.

We're already, we got plans in motion.

Gonna be on Twitter.

You find me on Twitter also.

Happy if you got like a faith-based question or whatever.

Email me brett@omgcommerce.com and uh, yeah, love to connect.

Yeah, fantastic.

I have been watching Twitter to see you're back on.

Haven't done anything yet.

No, no.

I'm just, I'm planning, I'm just planning, I'm just getting, getting my

ducks in a row, getting, getting ready,

getting my ducks in a row.

I've, I've done like two or three tweets.

I tweeted Michael Hyatt the other day, um, asked him a question.

He got in touch.

Um, and I, I tweeted an article from the Times about Formula One.

So, uh, I'm two tweets in front, so

I.

You're, you are, you have taken, you've jumped out into the league

here, so I've got some catch up to do.

Yeah.

I realize my, my Twitter picture is like eight years old and my

background's like a picture I took of New York City from 15 years ago.

Like I got, I got a little bit of work to do, but I'm, I'm gonna get there.

Yeah, catch, uh, uh, just whenever you're back on, make me your first tweet.

That's all I ask.

Okay.

Okay.

. Okay.

Awesome.

Fantastic.

Thanks Matt.

It's been awesome.

Ah, it's been brilliant.

Thanks, Brett.

Listen, we will link obviously to Brent's info, uh, Brent's Brett's info in the show

notes, uh, which you can get along for free, along with the transcript and notes.

At Crowd Church, if there are any topics that we've talked about today

from parenting to the passing of a parent, uh, to cancer, um, and you

would like to talk to somebody, you can get in touch with us at Crowd Church.

We would love to hear from you.

Uh, all the contact information is at www.crowd.church.

There are actually live streams, which we have done on grief.

We have done.

What does the Bible say about cancer?

with Annie Uddin, and in fact, we've done a what the Story podcast where we

deep dive into that in the livestream.

We talked with cancer surgeons and specialists and all kinds of stuff.

So if you are struggling with some of those stuff, we've got some

great resources on the website, which you can, uh, get ahold of.

We've got talks about parenting, uh, granted not from anyone with as much

experiences as Brett or Brittany, but, uh, maybe next time, uh, . All, like I say,

all of that information's at Crowd Church.

So, uh, there you go.

Remember to check out the website.

Remember, uh, listen, where's the digital church?

Uh, we're on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life.

We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith.

And a place where you can contribute and grow.

And you are welcome at Crowd Church.

And if you are in, uh, Springfield, Missouri, uh, what church do you go to?

Brett?

So we attend Life Church, which, uh uh, so you can go to Life Church.

It's a multi-location church pastor by Craig Groeschel, who's an amazing leader.

Yeah, great Going.

We're one of like 42, 42 campuses, 43, something like that.

Oh, wow.

But, uh, some great free resources too, like free resources if you, if you're

leading a small group or a church mm-hmm.

, like, you basically get all of life church resources for free.

They just give 'em away.

And, um, yeah.

So Life Church, it's, it's amazing.

Yeah, no, the most, well, one of the most generous churches that I know.

Uh, all the stuff that gets unreal, what the guys are doing.

It's brilliant.

Really, really good.

Actually.

The, uh, the you version, the you version Bible app, that's, Half a half a billion

downloads, like church created that like, so they've got, there's a hundred people

on staff just working on the Bible app.

Of course it's all free.

Uh, which is pretty amazing.

Yeah.

Wow, that's fantastic.

Uh, so if you're in that area, you do check out Life Church and in fact

they do online church service as well.

So they do check those out.

Uh, be sure to subscribe to what's the story wherever you get your

podcast from, cuz we've got some great conversations lined up.

And I don't want you to miss any of them, obviously.

And in case no one has told you yet, Uh, let me press this button here.

Uh, no wrong button.

Let me press that button there.

Go, uh, in case no one's told you today, you are awesome.

Yes you are.

It's just a burden we all have to bear.

You know, God creators, uh, he fearfully and wonderfully made.

The Bible says so.

Uh, translate that in the message.

I guess it would say.

You're awesome.

It's just a burden we have to bear.

So there you go.

What's the story is produced by Crowd Online Church.

You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.

The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon on George McCague.

Josh Catchpole,Estella Robin and Tim Johnson.

Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and if you would like to

read the transcript or show notes, as I mentioned, head over to our website.

You should know by now www dot Crowd Church, where you can also sign up for the

weekly newsletter and get all of this good stuff directly to your inbox totally free.

Totally amazing.

So that's it for me.

That's it for Brett.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Have a fantastic week.

I'll see you next time.