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DJ Sir Daniel: Greetings and welcome back to another episode

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of Queue Points podcast.

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I'm DJ Sir Daniel

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and my name is Jay Ray, sometimes known by my government

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as Johnnie Ray Kornegay III.

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And, Sir Daniel, we are about to have a spooky conversation.

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DJ Sir Daniel: That's right.

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You know, it's that time of year and the phantoms and ghouls are hiding out and

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the ghost writers are hanging out as well.

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That's right.

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Ghost writing.

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Ghost writing is a recurring topic in hip hop circles, Jay Ray.

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And I have a theory.

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As to why you want to hear it.

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yes.

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Let's hear your theory first.

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DJ Sir Daniel: All right.

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So check it.

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The early days of hip hop were not built on commercial success, right?

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In other words, album sales.

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Yes.

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DJ Sir Daniel: MCs got the notion to pick up the mic and start battling

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each other, it was about showmanship.

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It was about crowd control.

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Mm hmm.

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DJ Sir Daniel: Um, and building your reputation around the way, around the hood

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as like the best party, rocking MC ever.

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And at that time, the only way you could garner that type of respect

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was to write your own rhymes.

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And so the forefathers and foremothers were not educated on the

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ways of the business of music and that songs often have co creators

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that was not their, their goal.

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They didn't know nothing about that.

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So it was just all about who could rock the party the best and

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come up with their own rhymes.

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And that's where, that's what fuels this idea of if you're not writing

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your own rhymes, you're not a real MC.

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You know, you're absolutely right.

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Um, and for, for, for the longest time, hip hop was kind

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of considered a man's game too.

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And, you know, men, it's all about competition, right?

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of that idea of writing your own rhymes is also who's the best MC.

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It becomes like a whole thing.

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so you're absolutely correct.

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Um, but what's really interesting about.

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idea is from the inception of hip hop as a commercial entity.

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DJ Sir Daniel: Yep.

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There have always been always y'all other writers and creators on songs.

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So the most famous example, and this is at the very beginning,

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DJ Sir Daniel: Yep.

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I'm going to read the lyric quote, check it out on the and.

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The O V A and the rest is F L Y Kaz.

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it's a Grandmaster Kaz line.

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Famously, as the story goes, there's a missing notebook somewhere.

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of a sudden this Kaz line ended up in Rapper's Delight.

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This is the first official hip hop commercial hit, right?

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So at the very beginning, now Kaz was an unwilling ghost writer, right?

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DJ Sir Daniel: Right.

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Be clear.

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no check off of, off of writing this rhyme, right?

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He only knew that this happened because the song came out.

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so at the very beginning, there was always kind of this idea of.

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No, you just need to have a clever rhyme and whoever is going to make the best one

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of that, you get to have that joint on the song and somebody else can say it.

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DJ Sir Daniel: That's right.

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And you know, you made a great point.

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You brought up the idea of manhood and being able to flex your manhood,

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uh, on the mic and that, you know, creates another dichotomy within hip

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hop because of course men weren't the only ones rapping, you know, women

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came along and we're doing their thing.

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Um, a lot of times.

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A lot more vicious on the mic.

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And of course, you know, we all know the, the mythology and the folklore of Roxanne

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Shantae being this young dynamo, 12, 13 years old, taking out the neighborhood.

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Emcees one by one battling one by one, and she garnered that reputation so soon.

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She became

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Real talk before, as we get into that too, I think it's also important

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to note in what you just said, battle rapping and writing a song are different

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things and rappers talk about that.

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So Shantae is an absolute beast.

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Let's be really clear.

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DJ Sir Daniel: be clear.

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But battle rap and writing a song are two different kinds of skillsets.

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So that's when

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DJ Sir Daniel: That's correct.

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That's correct.

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And she's been, she's gone on the record as saying that being in the

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studio was not her favorite thing.

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She was dead.

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She definitely came from the era of being live on stage, being live in front

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of people and improvising on the spot.

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Her and Biz Markie, you know, that song, um, you crew was completely

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improvised, was completely improvised.

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Um, the, uh, her, a lot of her early singles were completely

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improvised, like queen of rocks.

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And even her answer to the rock to Roxanne, Roxanne was improvised.

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They, and it was later transcribed and she even had to rerecord her verses

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because they were off the top of her head.

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So with that in mind, as she's growing in this.

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Industry, the industry now of, um, music business of the recording industry.

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And she's coming upon, um, releasing her second album.

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You know, things have changed.

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The landscape has changed.

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We're in the early nineties.

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And, um, as the story goes, you know, there was a celebration

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for women in hip hop called, um, sisters in the name of rap.

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Which was the very first pay per view rap, um, it wasn't the first,

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it was Rap Mania came first and then Sisters in the Name of Rap.

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It's supposed to be all women in rap, um, pay per view event.

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I was so excited, my mother was not giving up that 9.

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99 or whatever it was to pay to see.

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for view.

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DJ Sir Daniel: Hey preview, baby.

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So she was not willing to do that.

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So I was watching it and listening to it on scrambled.

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I can, I can hear it, but I couldn't see it cause it was scrambled.

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You y'all, y'all come on.

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Y'all

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feel me.

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You know, if you old enough, you remember how that was.

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So anyway, as the, the, the legend goes, um, shiny was seeing how all of

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these women were behaving towards her.

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We're acting like they were better than, and she was like, Hmm.

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You know, I, I gave birth to all of the, these MCs, you know, I mothered these,

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these girls, you know, to, to, to, to, to coin a phrase, I mothered all of y'all.

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And so that sparked this moment between her Chante versus everybody.

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And at that time she was working.

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Directly with, uh, uh, another, um, legend by the name of granddaddy, IU,

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who was also her label mate, uh, a juice crew member, and they've gotten that

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studio and produced probably one of the most scathing disc records ever.

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And we've talked about it on this show.

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Called big mama and granddaddy.

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I, you is credited with writing this most vicious, this record.

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He wrote it like, I'm pretty certain they, they, you know, ideas were

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bouncing off the walls and, you know, he was feeding off of her energy and,

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you know, the, the, the recalling the stories being backstage, like, This

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one wants a better dressing room.

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I gave birth to all of them MCs and that becomes a line in the record.

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But granddaddy, I, you, as a man has written this verse, this,

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this record for this woman.

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Yes.

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DJ Sir Daniel: you see a lot of that happening in hip hop where men are penning

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rhymes for women, Herbie most famously has written a lot of these records for

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salt and pepper and so on and so on.

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And so it's just, I think it's just amazing that in this art called hip

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hop, uh, where, you know, male bravado is, is King and is, is put, um, center

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stage all the time that when women come on the mic, a lot of times, They're

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not, when it comes to the put presenting a record, they're not even allowed to

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put up, put on, write their own verses.

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Like there's a dude in the camp that says, you know what?

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Let me write this for you.

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This sounds better, even though I'm pretty certain they had their own

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ideas and during the session, a lot of these records got written by most

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of the dudes, probably because they.

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They Bogart their way into getting that credit and saying, nah,

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this sounds better say this way.

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Going back to that idea of, you know, the craft of a song, is different,

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but I do think some of it is, you know, that natural male desire of wanting to

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have control, especially then, saying, in hip hop, but, um, the idea of.

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The ghost writer, um, is one that I do remember Sir Daniel,

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and I know you remember this as well being like a, a, a, no, no,

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DJ Sir Daniel: A no, no.

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Wanted to be accused of somebody else writing your rhymes,

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even though in a lot of cases we could tell by certain people's flows

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that like, sounds like so and so Oh, they're in the same crew together.

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Oh, that rhyme was probably written by whoever, whoever.

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And it's funny how we've evolved.

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I think we've evolved as listeners.

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Um, but yeah, when I was young, like, it was like, no, like you, you

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have to write your own rhyme, right?

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DJ Sir Daniel: was a no, no.

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And so many people said it so often that they forgot that we could read the credits

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and even the ones that were pro professed that they wrote their own rhymes.

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A lot of other co writers would show up in the, in the line of notes for their rap.

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So it was like, Okay, sure.

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You know, you wrote a lot of your stuff, but it's okay.

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You have a collaborator.

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And you know what?

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Um, this, this topic comes up so much.

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Remy Ma addressed this topic on ghost of ghost writing on an episode of

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the math Hoffa show back in 2022.

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And, and in that moment, she kind of, she deaded it.

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Now, Remy Ma, she was, she's always been one to say, I write my own rhymes.

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Can't nobody say it for me better than me.

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And she still believes that, but she says, but she says plainly in this

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interview, that it's really not that important in the grand scheme of things.

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She said, it's not important.

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She used the, um, the example of Trina,

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Mm hmm.

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DJ Sir Daniel: she said, not Trina.

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Trina is may not be known for being lyrical, but Trina is Trina in the, in hip

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hop, Trina is Trina in the music industry.

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She's a, she's a goldmine.

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She is respected.

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She's an, she's a legend in the game because she is Trina.

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So with that being said, Trina.

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In the grand scheme of things, writing your own rhymes is not that important.

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It's not that important.

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It's, you know, we're, we're beating a dead horse here by keep, by still

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continuing to say, and to profess that, you know, I don't have ghost

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writers as is, as if it's a badge of honor in this day and age.

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Um, we wanted to take some time and talk about three, um.

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Three confirmed ghost writers, but

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that they've written are we really don't know like a lot of these a couple of them.

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I think we're like pretty sure of but we wanted to just take some time and

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talk about three folks who you may or may not know and the songs they

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may or may not have ghost written

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DJ Sir Daniel: Hmm.

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the background.

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Whoo.

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DJ Sir Daniel: They are in the background.

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Um, so if I say the name, Anthony Peaks, it probably won't ring a bell.

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Right?

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But you definitely know who Apache is.

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Oh, I need a gangster with my gear.

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DJ Sir Daniel: Uh, the, a New Jersey native Apache was one of the

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foundation members of the hip hop collective known as the flavor unit.

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Yes.

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DJ Sir Daniel: unit is best known for legends, including Mark 45 King,

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like him Shabazz naughty by nature.

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And of course the princess of the posse queen Latifah.

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So as part of the crew, Apache honed his skills as an MC and eventually landed his

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own record deal with Tommy boy records.

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And so he gifted us with.

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With his classic and controversial hit gangsta bitch,

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which, um, J Ray was singing

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hmm.

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DJ Sir Daniel: probably unaware of listener is that not only was Apache's

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queen Latifah's, um, bodyguard and roadie on a tour roadie, was

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also a writer of two, not one, but two of her most prolific songs.

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Just another day.

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And ladies first, both songs juxtaposed to his hit gangsta

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bitch are day and night.

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They Ray in tone and, uh, and subject matter.

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And it's like, it takes major talent to embody both masculine and feminine

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energy and rap lyrics, and to make people feel inspired and motivated because.

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Just Another Day is a, is a wonderful narrative about a

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day in the life in the hood.

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And, but the tone is very soft, is very melodic, and Queen Latifah brings most

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of that, most her energy into that song.

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But I would have, Never guess that, you know, Apache was the one behind that

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because the tones are so different, but that's what makes you, that's what makes

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somebody a dope writer and ladies first.

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I mean, come on, come on.

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Would you ever think in a million years that a man wrote that?

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You collaborated in the writing of that

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absolutely.

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I would not have, um, but of course, you know, of course, knowing hip

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hop, not at all surprising, but yeah.

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Um, Apache is absolutely a legend and another legend.

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Um, so the name is Donnie Shaquan Lewis.

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Shaquan,

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DJ Sir Daniel: That's

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know him as Mad Skillz, who now goes by Skillz,

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DJ Sir Daniel: right,

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primarily, but born in Detroit, um, raised in

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Fayetteville, North Carolina.

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This is important raised in Fayetteville, North Carolina, but spent his high

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school years in Richmond, Virginia.

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So Skillz this interesting mix of experiences, but was really reared by

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the school of run DMC as like a rapper.

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So interesting thing is I think Skillz might have the quintessential

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nine mid to late nineties flow.

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In hip hop.

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Like, I feel like when you go back and you listen to Skillz, you're like, Oh, this

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is the perfect version of what hip hop in the 1990s sounded like on the East coast.

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Right.

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a perfect encapsulation of cadence and flow, et cetera.

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I say that to say, because.

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It's ubiquitous.

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So when you think about the songs that Skillz is alleged to have ghost written,

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you're like, Oh, I can't hear that.

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I can't hear that.

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So Skillz, um, before we get into the two songs, um, that I want to

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mention, um, Skillz is super famous.

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Um, for a couple of things, the year in wrap up,

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was doing for like many years, but also in 2000, On raucous sidebar, we need to

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do a raucous, I think show at some point.

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DJ Sir Daniel: That was moment for sure.

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a moment in 2000 on raucous.

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He released a song called ghost writer.

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Now he doesn't name any MCs in the actual song, right?

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But there is an uncensored version where he was live does name names.

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So here's the names that Skillz mentions that he's written for.

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Diddy.

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Of course, he says Puff Daddy, then Foxy Brown, Mace, Will

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Smith, and Jermaine Dupri.

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Now, he doesn't say any of this in the song.

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You can find it in a live version where he mentions this.

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And this is all alleged.

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This is a rapper.

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It's bravado.

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We don't know if any of this is true, but there are two songs.

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There are two people in this list that folks are pretty

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sure, like, no, no, no, no.

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I definitely wrote those.

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I need a girl part one.

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Diddy from his first record and then, uh, lost and found, which was

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the title track from Will Smith's.

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I think this is like a 2005 album.

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Um, and if you listen to both of those records, you can actually

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hear Skillz as flow in them.

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What's dope about Skillz is he is highly respected.

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He's an industry veteran.

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There's a new picture of him and Q tip together at the rock and

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roll hall of fame, uh, induction ceremony for tribe called quest.

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Um, so there's tons and tons of interviews of him.

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So I suggest folks go and check it out because this is a man who has

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literally been able to have a career in hip hop being behind the scenes

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for most of it, being a ghost writer.

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Sidebar.

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He spent some time on the road with Missy Elliot and his skill with Missy was, he

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was like, yo, Missy was a studio rat.

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She didn't enjoy doing shows.

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So she would take me out there because I could remember lyrics.

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It's like, Missy couldn't remember the lyrics.

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So Missy would do part of the song and then she would cue it to Skillz to like

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finish the rap, because he was like, he was like off the top of the dome,

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he could remember stuff really easy.

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So.

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toured with Missy, um, uh, when she was out doing shows in the

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like late nineties and early two thousands for like a long time.

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So for those of you that saw Missy back then, you probably saw with her.

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Mm hmm.

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DJ Sir Daniel: doing it.

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Um, most recently I saw him with LaKali 47 a couple of years ago on

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her, um, tour and doing the same thing.

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So you're absolutely right.

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Um, there's so much overlap within the industry.

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So Skillz wrote for Diddy

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Mm

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DJ Sir Daniel: and there's another well known rapper

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who's written a lot for Diddy.

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he?

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Yes.

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DJ Sir Daniel: And this gentleman, and it's so funny, like he, I'm talking

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about Jason Terrence Phillips, but you all know him better as Jada, Jada kiss.

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You know, um, Jada kiss is like, and arguably one of the nicest.

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when you hear those arguments of top five dead or alive, Jadakiss

Jay Ray: 00:20:32

is always in that argument because, I mean, the man is dead nice.

Jay Ray: 00:20:36

Like that, that Lox versus, um, Dipset

Jay Ray: 00:20:41

Mm

Jay Ray: 00:20:42

DJ Sir Daniel: just I mean, that if that didn't solidify his place on the

Jay Ray: 00:20:48

Mount Rushmore of MCs, I don't know what else will because he completely

Jay Ray: 00:20:54

obliterated that moment with, um, cadence, with breath control, with

Jay Ray: 00:21:00

The punch lines was immaculate.

Jay Ray: 00:21:02

It's just, you know, the freestyle game is wild, but Jada

Jay Ray: 00:21:07

is not just a freestyle rapper.

Jay Ray: 00:21:08

Jadakiss is nice with that pen

Jay Ray: 00:21:12

Jay Ray, you know, a lot of the songs that we danced to in the mid nineties,

Jay Ray: 00:21:16

a lot of bad boy hits specifically were penned by your boy Jadakiss,

Jay Ray: 00:21:21

Yes.

Jay Ray: 00:21:22

DJ Sir Daniel: Senorita,

Jay Ray: 00:21:24

Yep.

Jay Ray: 00:21:25

DJ Sir Daniel: um, Diddy's verse on victory.

Jay Ray: 00:21:28

Um, He's alleged to have co written both biggie and mason's verse on more money

Jay Ray: 00:21:34

more problems Like he's done it all he's done quite a bit for that label and so

Jay Ray: 00:21:40

that makes me understand why like they were Really vehement about getting their

Jay Ray: 00:21:45

money over there because it's like I built this house on the lyrics I wrote.

Jay Ray: 00:21:51

Absolutely.

Jay Ray: 00:21:52

Um, I don't want to also underscore to that.

Jay Ray: 00:21:58

This is not the case for Jadakiss, but for some MCs, you know, the

Jay Ray: 00:22:07

industry is different, right?

Jay Ray: 00:22:08

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray: 00:22:09

And it gravitates to certain personalities in a different way.

Jay Ray: 00:22:12

And I think it's dope when you have the combination of the two where a

Jay Ray: 00:22:16

person is like, no, no, no, no, no.

Jay Ray: 00:22:17

I can also write and I can be out front.

Jay Ray: 00:22:20

And I want to be out front.

Jay Ray: 00:22:22

The thing about Skillz is he's always been really clear.

Jay Ray: 00:22:24

He's like, I'm not real.

Jay Ray: 00:22:26

He was not real dead set about being the artist at the center

Jay Ray: 00:22:30

of the stage on the mic.

Jay Ray: 00:22:31

He could do that, but that wasn't like the main thing.

Jay Ray: 00:22:35

Jadakiss on the other hand is interested in that and was good at doing it.

Jay Ray: 00:22:40

So I also understand that concept as well of, for many folks who write, this

Jay Ray: 00:22:49

is the way that they earn a living.

Jay Ray: 00:22:51

DJ Sir Daniel: Yes Right

Jay Ray: 00:22:57

be able to feel like they could sell it.

Jay Ray: 00:22:59

Right.

Jay Ray: 00:23:00

But if you're a talented MC and you can write this idea of ghost,

Jay Ray: 00:23:05

this idea of writing for other people might be a way to make money.

Jay Ray: 00:23:09

Here's the problem though.

Jay Ray: 00:23:11

The problem though, is that short term money, right?

Jay Ray: 00:23:14

Unless your name is on the record and you are actually getting

Jay Ray: 00:23:18

publishing from that song.

Jay Ray: 00:23:20

And in many cases, these ghost writers names are nowhere to be found on a record.

Jay Ray: 00:23:27

You don't know that they ghost wrote it.

Jay Ray: 00:23:29

So if that's true, You may not be getting paid on the back end, right?

Jay Ray: 00:23:35

So it's a wonderful thing to keep folks working for some folks that need to be.

Jay Ray: 00:23:41

But I also question, um, you know, folks, names not being on the record.

Jay Ray: 00:23:47

And we should also note real quick, as we, we, we wrap that this is not exclusive.

Jay Ray: 00:23:54

To hip hop that famous example we share from uh, uh, Andrea martin who

Jay Ray: 00:24:00

basically ghost wrote show me love right

Jay Ray: 00:24:03

The they was like yo We'll give you what three hundred dollars or something

Jay Ray: 00:24:06

crazy to be like yo If you could come up with a melody like she's just doing

Jay Ray: 00:24:10

the demo If you could come up with a melody and if you could come up with a

Jay Ray: 00:24:13

verse We're gonna give you some extra money right her name ain't on that song

Jay Ray: 00:24:19

But she basically ghost wrote that song

Jay Ray: 00:24:20

DJ Sir Daniel: and sang the reference track and which is,

Jay Ray: 00:24:23

and I think that's the, um, I guess the, the, the reckoning that's

Jay Ray: 00:24:29

happening now is that demo tracks and reference tracks are leaking.

Jay Ray: 00:24:33

So it's like people are hearing, oh, That's such and such.

Jay Ray: 00:24:36

Oh, so they did write that.

Jay Ray: 00:24:37

They actually sang the reference track for your favorite hit record.

Jay Ray: 00:24:41

And, um, I want people, I want folks to go back and listen to our episode with

Jay Ray: 00:24:46

Brian Patrick Davis, when he describes what it's like being in the studio

Jay Ray: 00:24:52

and how you can safeguard yourself in these instances of collaboration.

Jay Ray: 00:24:57

And making sure that you do get credit.

Jay Ray: 00:25:00

Now, some, a lot of these people didn't get credit because of the person they

Jay Ray: 00:25:03

were working with, um, just omitted their names because they could, because

Jay Ray: 00:25:08

they, they were scrupulous unscrupulous and had that kind of power, but then

Jay Ray: 00:25:13

there are these other instances where you're collaborating, there needs to

Jay Ray: 00:25:17

be split sheets created in that moment.

Jay Ray: 00:25:19

And all of that, you can find out in that episode with Brian Patrick

Jay Ray: 00:25:22

Davis on our wonderfully large.

Jay Ray: 00:25:26

Repertoire of shows here at Queue Points podcast, but real quick,

Jay Ray: 00:25:30

as we wrap up, Jay Ray, um,

Jay Ray: 00:25:34

can hip hop music release the stigma of ghostwriting and

Jay Ray: 00:25:39

fully embrace collaboration?

Jay Ray: 00:25:44

I think so.

Jay Ray: 00:25:45

I think we are in an interesting moment where, um, folks have.

Jay Ray: 00:25:51

More of an appreciation for the importance of collaboration.

Jay Ray: 00:25:57

So I do think it can, I think what it's going to come down to is can, em, MCs will

Jay Ray: 00:26:03

have to find a new, another dig right now.

Jay Ray: 00:26:06

It can still be a dig.

Jay Ray: 00:26:07

If I might run, if I write my rhymes and you don't write your

Jay Ray: 00:26:10

rhymes, that can be a dig, right?

Jay Ray: 00:26:11

You know what I'm saying?

Jay Ray: 00:26:13

But that person who doesn't write their rhymes also needs to

Jay Ray: 00:26:16

be able to, to respond to that.

Jay Ray: 00:26:17

I think at the end of the day, like Remy was talking about,

Jay Ray: 00:26:21

I don't think it matters

Jay Ray: 00:26:22

DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah,

Jay Ray: 00:26:24

it hasn't stopped making hits since the beginning.

Jay Ray: 00:26:27

DJ Sir Daniel: that's right.

Jay Ray: 00:26:28

had it.

Jay Ray: 00:26:29

I think it's actually more important that we acknowledge ghostwriters so

Jay Ray: 00:26:34

that they're not ghostwriting at all.

Jay Ray: 00:26:37

need these people's names on the credits so that they're them.

Jay Ray: 00:26:42

Today and their families are reaping the benefits of the hard work that they did.

Jay Ray: 00:26:47

And if we keep this idea of ghost writers alive, we keep this music industry, uh,

Jay Ray: 00:26:53

in the same perpetual cycle that it's in where people are dying penniless and

Jay Ray: 00:26:57

they don't need to, because guess what?

Jay Ray: 00:26:59

You wrote a hit song.

Jay Ray: 00:27:00

You need to have your name on that song.

Jay Ray: 00:27:02

So I feel like that's the fight.

Jay Ray: 00:27:04

Like the fight is no, no ghost writers.

Jay Ray: 00:27:07

Everybody gets credit.

Jay Ray: 00:27:10

DJ Sir Daniel: Come to find out.

Jay Ray: 00:27:12

Everybody ate.

Jay Ray: 00:27:14

I don't think there's anything left to be said.

Jay Ray: 00:27:16

Like Jay Ray, you, you really stuck a pin in that.

Jay Ray: 00:27:19

Um, thank you all for checking out this episode of Queue Points podcast.

Jay Ray: 00:27:23

Jay Ray, just let the folks know how these ghost writers over here

Jay Ray: 00:27:26

can, can survive and keep Putting out these, um, this wonderful

Jay Ray: 00:27:31

project called Queue Points Podcast.

Jay Ray: 00:27:33

Yo, y'all.

Jay Ray: 00:27:33

So if you can see our faces, if you can hear our voices, thank you so much.

Jay Ray: 00:27:37

We appreciate you.

Jay Ray: 00:27:38

Hit the subscribe button wherever you are.

Jay Ray: 00:27:40

Also, if there's a notification bell, hit that too so you can

Jay Ray: 00:27:43

know when Queue Points drops.

Jay Ray: 00:27:44

New stuff.

Jay Ray: 00:27:47

us.

Jay Ray: 00:27:47

We really appreciate it.

Jay Ray: 00:27:48

You can buy us a coffee.

Jay Ray: 00:27:50

We would really, really dig that.

Jay Ray: 00:27:52

You can get additional content.

Jay Ray: 00:27:54

On our Patreon.

Jay Ray: 00:27:56

Visit our website at Queue Points.

Jay Ray: 00:27:57

com where you can sign up for our newsletter and read our blog.

Jay Ray: 00:28:00

Thank you so much.

Jay Ray: 00:28:01

We really appreciate y'all.

Jay Ray: 00:28:03

DJ Sir Daniel: Oh, like I say, at the end of every show in

Jay Ray: 00:28:06

this life, you have a choice.

Jay Ray: 00:28:08

You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.

Jay Ray: 00:28:11

I'm DJ Sir Daniel,

Jay Ray: 00:28:13

My name is Jay Ray y'all.

Jay Ray: 00:28:14

DJ Sir Daniel: and this has been Queue Points Podcast, dropping

Jay Ray: 00:28:17

the needle on black music history.

Jay Ray: 00:28:20

We'll see you on the next go round.

Jay Ray: 00:28:22

Peace.

Jay Ray: 00:28:22

Peace y'all.