It's not working.

It's not sinking in.

Nothing I do matters.

If you can relate to the lack of hope in these statements, this episode is for you. We're rewriting the script on ADHD and offering hope to parents that feel their biblical training isn't producing fruit. Emily and Jacob Deyo are masters of encouragement, intentionality, and wisdom--but they are truly relatable and honest!

Have you listened to our new Dwelling Place podcast yet? Let us help you make the Lord a priority on even the busiest of days! Find the free printable resources at www.entrustedministries.com/podcast.

Scripture Referenced: Psalm 139, Colossians 1:28-29

They're the joyful agains our children.

2

Shout on the swings, the exhausting

agains of cooking and laundry and

3

the difficult agains of discipline.

4

So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

5

So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called to.

6

And went to bed believing we are

faithful in what matters most.

7

We believe God's word is

the key to untangle from the

8

confusion and overwhelm we feel.

9

Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

10

welcome to the Again podcast.

11

I'm Stephanie Hickox, and this is

brought to you by Entrusted Ministries.

12

Today I am joined by Emily and Jake Dio.

13

This conversation has long been in the

works and I'm so thankful they were able

14

to carve out the time to talk about a

confusing and kind of complicated topic.

15

What do we do when we have these kiddos

that don't seem to fit into the box?

16

You're following all of the biblical

guidelines and it just seems like

17

it's not working as effectively as

it does with many other children.

18

Today we're talking about A DHD.

19

Of course, we're not claiming to be

doctors or experts, but we have the

20

blessing of a testimony from parents

who now have a 19-year-old who's

21

thriving in his walk with the Lord and

has found great places for his gifts.

22

We're thrilled with the faithfulness

of the Lord in his life, and Emily

23

and Jake have a little bit more

freedom to speak into this than

24

someone who's still in the trenches.

25

Jake, I've not had the honor of meeting

you before this in person, but I

26

truly feel like I know you already,

because Emily speaks so highly and so

27

frequently about the guidance and the

strength that you provide for her.

28

I see such a rootedness in her

because of your leadership.

29

And I just wanna thank you for

being one of the good guys.

30

And thank you for sitting down with us

and providing hope for families that are

31

going through this struggle right now.

32

Emily/Jake: Thank you Stephanie.

33

It's incredibly kind of you to say

and I'm grateful for an opportunity

34

to share what I can on the topic

and hope, hope to be a blessing to

35

other parents who might be dealing

with this for the first time as well.

36

Stephanie: Can we start a little bit

with your story, Jake, a DHD wasn't

37

diagnosed as much when we were kids.

38

What did you feel like as a child?

39

What were some struggles that you had?

40

Emily/Jake: Sure.

41

You are correct.

42

This was not something that

was diagnosed formally for me

43

actually until I was an adult.

44

And it came as a byproduct of seeking

a diagnosis for our son who was having

45

some challenges at school himself.

46

And of course, one of the things

that the doctor had us do was

47

to complete an evaluation.

48

And I just saw for the first

time as I was answering these

49

questions on behalf of my son.

50

Wow.

51

There's a lot of parallels

here that apply to me.

52

I should probably talk to somebody about

this which was illuminating for sure.

53

But because it wasn't something that was

diagnosed until I was an adult I largely

54

existed then in the world of the unknown.

55

So I didn't really know

what all it meant or how it.

56

Manifested itself.

57

There were definitely some struggles

and some frustrations that, that

58

I had individually growing up.

59

But the Lord was good and, allowed me

to overcome that and work through that.

60

But it certainly as now as an adult

and understanding what A DHD is it has

61

helped me reflect backwards on on my

life and to see some of those things.

62

And that was actually one of the

things that helped when it came

63

to parenting a child with A DHD

is understanding through that lens

64

how the actions are tied into it.

65

What's intentional versus

unintentional, things of that nature.

66

Stephanie: That's such a key thing

I think it's difficult even battling

67

shame because so many symptoms

of A DHD seem like sin choices.

68

When you love someone so deeply

and you know your child's heart you

69

see it through a different filter

and I can understand why that seems

70

like a really sinful choice, but

actually that was rooted in impulse.

71

And I know that if you give him one

minute, he's gonna repent and he is

72

gonna tell you that's actually not

what he thinks or what he means.

73

It's a tricky thing to want your

children to experience consequences for

74

their actions and consistency there.

75

And to be obedient and respectful,

but then also to give grace

76

because it's such a struggle.

77

Jake, how does your A DHD

manifest and what are some things

78

that you've had to overcome?

79

Emily/Jake: So a few things

definitely stand out.

80

I would say there's four.

81

For me personally, there were

four key areas that manifest.

82

For my A DHD.

83

First would be hyper focus.

84

If something captures my attention.

85

If it's in inherently interesting

for me I can sit down and work

86

at a level of intensity that

can be a huge benefit at times.

87

Each of these though could

also be a negative, right?

88

If it's not interesting, it's very

difficult sometimes to get started doing

89

a task, even though it's important to do.

90

If it's not an interesting task or one

that excites me, I can't sit down and

91

just, power all the way through it.

92

The second way would be in

creativity and pattern recognition.

93

My brain naturally connects dots and

sees relationships between ideas that

94

don't look connected at first, and

it moves through it very quickly.

95

And that's become a huge benefit

especially as I've gotten

96

older and into adulthood.

97

And that leads into the third one,

problem solving and adaptability.

98

Being able to see solutions to problems

it very quickly is a huge benefit.

99

And then the fourth one would

be the emotional side of it.

100

The emotional intuition.

101

There's a, an emotional.

102

Intensity that can be challenging

as a kid but it can also

103

become empathy as an adult.

104

Yeah.

105

So it's one of those things that with the

right help, with the right focus, with

106

the right intentionality the things that

are seen largely in childhood as problems

107

can actually be something redemptive.

108

Because, what I want more than

anything is for parents to

109

understand that God wastes nothing.

110

So even the wiring of an A DHD mind

can be part of how he is protecting,

111

shaping and redeeming that child.

112

Psalms 1 39 reminds us that we are

fearfully and wonderfully made.

113

So A DHD isn't an accident, it's part

of who God designed us to be, and

114

he wants to use it for his glory.

115

In ways that we can never expect

116

Stephanie: All right.

117

You already made me tear up a little bit.

118

you.

119

Emily/Jake: me.

120

Stephanie: Thank you for that.

121

And thank you for speaking

of it in such a hopeful way.

122

I read something the other day that

said, in a hunter Gather society,

123

this would be a problem at all.

124

This would be elevated.

125

And as you were speaking, I was

thinking about these are why you're

126

able to lead your family so well.

127

A, a lot of what you shared, it makes

sense of the patterns that you see

128

and the way that you solve problems.

129

And I think we need to keep

that hope in mind, don't we?

130

And how have you sought to have victory

over the potential pitfalls of A DHD?

131

How, what has that looked like in

marriage, in work now in family?

132

Emily/Jake: sure.

133

So the main challenges that, that I

had if you wanna call it or define

134

it more as like symptoms, right?

135

Being distracted.

136

Being impulsive, that emotional intensity.

137

I mentioned about earlier forgetfulness

that by itself was definitely frustrating

138

at many different intervals of my life.

139

And to this day, it can still be,

especially when there's something

140

I want to do or need to do.

141

I need to clean the garage.

142

It's not interesting and I can't

make myself do it because I

143

can't overcome that component.

144

So there are still some things I have

to deal with, but having the awareness,

145

having the understanding of where

I'm at bringing it out into the open

146

has afforded me the opportunity to

shore up the gaps that I know I have.

147

And I can shore that up in

a number of different ways.

148

But it just bringing it

to an awareness standpoint

149

Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

150

Emily/Jake: A great first step

and a very important first step.

151

Stephanie: And then Emily, what has that

looked like for you to be aware, to be

152

gracious in those things, but also to

be a strong helper for your husband.

153

Mm-hmm.

154

Mm-hmm.

155

Emily/Jake: Can lean on one another's

strengths where he is so good.

156

I am not.

157

And so I've learned that a lot of

that is strength that I can lean into.

158

And just studying one another and

learning the strengths of the other and

159

giving them space to work that through.

160

Although I don't have A-D-H-D-I know

that I certainly have my faults.

161

And so understanding that

though, that may bring some.

162

Obstacles to work through.

163

That all I have my own that

I'm also working through, and

164

that I ask for patience as the

Lord, works that out in my life.

165

So I feel like it's no different

, you just keep extending patience

166

and love to one another.

167

And you would do that anyway in

a marriage regardless of that.

168

A DHD.

169

Stephanie: Sure.

170

That's a new way to compliment

each other Jake, did you see

171

any benefit to this as a child?

172

Did this help you in any way growing up?

173

Emily/Jake: Yes, in, in two very

different and very distinct ways.

174

The first would be.

175

Through the typical routine the

consequence would be I would often

176

forget about assignments being

due, homework tests, et cetera.

177

But the ability to now feel the pressure

of the timeline allowed me to hyper focus

178

and knock the assignment out real quick.

179

From a testing standpoint, the

challenges for me were that I

180

couldn't always get myself to sit

down and just memorize rote material.

181

Tough to do, but I did learn a lot

from the lectures in the classroom the

182

slides, taking notes, things like that.

183

And I was a decent student.

184

I was an AB student all throughout

school and I really didn't have to.

185

Study at all that hard because

I would often remember things

186

just from the classroom situation

or the teacher presenting the

187

material to us the first time.

188

So that was helpful.

189

The second way and very different

way that I would say it helped me

190

was if there were traumatic things

that I experienced as a child.

191

The distractibility became an asset in

that the more that time elapsed from the

192

event that occurred, the less it affected

me and the less connected to what I felt.

193

Now as an adult, I understand

that's known as object permanence.

194

If something is right here in front of

you something that you're dealing with or

195

around a lot, you can easily remember it.

196

But if you don't.

197

Interact with a person, a friend, an

acquaintance, very frequently that

198

distance will create a fading in the

relationship, so likewise as a kid,

199

the distance from the event would cause

it to fade in my memory, and so would

200

the, emotional effects and things.

201

So I gained an ability to be really

resilient because of the fact that I

202

could forget and move on from things.

203

Now that did create a problem and this

is where parents can help shepherd their

204

children a little bit because I wouldn't

always connect certain events together

205

if they didn't happen close enough.

206

I'll give you an example.

207

My dad was a school teacher, a

Christian school teacher, and.

208

There was a young man who was upset at

something that happened in, in school.

209

He was several years older than me and I

was in elementary school, and I remember

210

he sought me out after school one day

and made some comment about I bet you

211

haven't even memorized your address yet.

212

And so to prove him wrong, right?

213

I just recited my address out to him

and never thinking like, why would this,

214

this boy who is four or five years older

than me even want this information.

215

You don't stop and

consider or think, right?

216

The reality was he wanted to come

egg our house over the weekend and,

217

that's why he wanted our address.

218

He wanted to know where we lived, right?

219

I had no idea.

220

Stephanie: wow.

221

Emily/Jake: So not connecting always when

people want to use information negatively

222

or things of that nature, you just don't

connect all those dots together as much.

223

And that's where wisdom as parents.

224

In helping their children like,

understand that not everyone has your

225

best interest in mind is a really

important conversation to have and

226

to reiterate on a regular basis.

227

Stephanie: That's a really

fascinating reflection that

228

you've had and understanding.

229

that has protected you from trauma in

some ways or just from difficult memories.

230

That's a very new insight that

I think is really neat that the

231

Lord would use it to protect you.

232

You mentioned that all of these

experiences that you've had and

233

just understanding yourself have

really helped you to parent Ben.

234

And we know that you were in the

process of seeking a diagnosis, but,

235

let's rewind a little bit to, what

were the early years like with Ben?

236

Emily/Jake: Exhausting.

237

They were completely and utterly

exhausting and he was our first.

238

So with as with your first, you have

nothing to compare it to or gauge it

239

by, and that is your only experience.

240

So we were parenting the best we

could having no understanding of that.

241

This was working in the background.

242

And so in those early years

it was very exhausting.

243

And this is where the gift

of having just a multitude of

244

counselors in your life comes in.

245

You just see God's work at hand.

246

Ben was young and if I'm recalling

correctly, he was probably two or three.

247

And my mom, who just adores our

kids, she had said to me and he was

248

a first grandchild also, but she had

been around children her whole life.

249

She was a nanny and she nannied

for this very sweet and dear lady

250

who was a who was a psychiatrist.

251

And she said.

252

Emily, I think maybe you should consider

that Ben might have a D, HD and I.

253

I, that was never even

a thought in my mind.

254

And so that seed was planted probably,

I'm going to say around three.

255

Would you say?

256

That sounds right?

257

Yeah, I don't think so.

258

Yeah.

259

Around three years old.

260

And so we really started

to to dig into it.

261

But it was exhausting.

262

It was it was a lot of repeating

ourselves, and our world with Ben

263

was 100% driven by impulsivity.

264

In those early years, you're just doing

a lot of, disciplining and structuring

265

your home . Discipline structure.

266

And I think during, before we

understood what was going on, we just

267

kept thinking like, we need to do

this more and we need to try harder.

268

Not realizing that this was at play,

so impulsivity rained and we felt, I

269

don't know if Jake felt this way because

he was working so hard at his job.

270

And I was at home with Ben.

271

And I honestly, I felt like

failure because I thought,

272

I'm not connecting with him.

273

Whatever I'm doing to

discipline isn't working.

274

And when I say this, people

laugh now because if Ben this

275

is just not him, but it's true.

276

I went to sleep many nights thinking.

277

He's going to be a juvenile delinquent.

278

We'll have to visit him and in

somewhere that we don't wanna be.

279

But God redeems so many things.

280

And so that was the early years.

281

To put it in context, a great

example would be, do you remember

282

one of the first times we took

him to Cantini Park in the museum?

283

Yes.

284

Like walking through the museum?

285

Yes.

286

If you been to the Cantini Museum

and the any museum that any listener

287

has been to can understand that, as

you're going through, there's always

288

something interesting and then it's

like there, maybe you turn a corner

289

and there could be something else.

290

We spent zero time enjoying

anything that was around us.

291

It was constantly wondering

what was around the next corner.

292

And I spent, I think I probably made

it through the entire museum in.

293

Like sub five minutes because I

was just chasing him through the

294

museum as he constantly wondered

what's around the next corner.

295

And so that, that was a great

example of what dealing with the

296

impulsivity of a young child with

a DHD kind of looked like for us.

297

Yes.

298

I feel like hand hands led the way.

299

And so we often told Ben, oh, when we went

into stores, which I'm sure I've said on

300

this podcast before, but we would always

say, look with your eyes, not with your

301

hands, and put your hands in your pocket.

302

Little did we know it.

303

I don't wanna get ahead of ourselves,

but God used that and his hands are his

304

greatest asset, which I'm going to cry,

but something that was so hard for us

305

back then becomes his greatest strength.

306

Yeah.

307

Yeah.

308

He, separating out the willingness and

ability from the wrongdoing was the

309

really important distinction that we had

to that we had to come to as parents.

310

We could punish and discipline for

something where there was an ability

311

to make a choice, and the choice

was made incorrectly or in violation

312

of a clear request or command of

scripture or something of that nature.

313

If the willingness was there, but

there wasn't an ability because

314

of distractibility or something,

that was definitely something

315

that we couldn't discipline for.

316

Another great example of that

would've been one instance.

317

We took Ben to, we were, went out to

dinner as a family and of course he

318

had matchbox cars that traveled with

him everywhere and probably still.

319

Three, maybe four years old at most.

320

And usually the command from dad before we

got to the restaurant or as we're getting

321

sat down or whatever, is play quietly with

your cars, keep them, in front of you.

322

And I had forgotten to tell him that

reminder at that particular restaurant.

323

And so as we're sitting there looking over

the menu, one of the cars went flying off

324

the table and landed on an adjacent table

where another couple was having dinner.

325

Stephanie: Oh boy.

326

Emily/Jake: of course we had to be a

very apologetic about it, but that wasn't

327

something that I could discipline him for

in that moment because it had probably

328

been a couple of months since we'd been

at a restaurant and he had forgotten.

329

And so that is, that was not an ability

for him to recall that information.

330

I had told him two months ago,

331

uh.

332

Yes, that's an excellent point.

333

Just because you implement something

in the past, then we fast forward a

334

couple months down the road does not

mean that they're going to remember

335

what the consequences for that action.

336

And so because of that, you find

yourself constantly going over

337

the same thing and you think like,

why is this not landing with them?

338

And that's where we just

realized consistency is king.

339

Yep.

340

And it's not, and this is where

we have to separate ourselves

341

our parenting from who they are.

342

It's not our lack of

parenting be consistent.

343

But if you're remaining consistent,

it's not your lack of parenting.

344

You're parenting through something

in their processing center that isn't

345

allowing them to quickly connect

the action with the consequence.

346

So you have to remain consistent.

347

And don't be discouraged because it's not

landing the first, second, third, fourth,

348

sometimes fifth bed than six times.

349

Just remain consistent.

350

Stephanie: Yes.

351

There was recently an example.

352

My kids went to Trader Joe's and got the

long strand of stickers they came home

353

with, and I found that one of them had

put a couple stickers on the table , and

354

I'm like, everybody say it with me.

355

Stickers go on.

356

Three of my kids said paper

and the other kids said, I've

357

never heard you say that before.

358

And I just was speechless because

you think that's only something

359

you have to teach a couple times.

360

It's a pretty basic thing.

361

And often a DHD goes along

with auditory processing issues

362

that it just doesn't land.

363

And sometimes I think I, I didn't

know I had to teach to not put the

364

glass bowl on your head in home

goods, but okay, that's a lesson.

365

And so how many times do I have to

say that before before that lands?

366

And it can be hard to keep up with

what would be a temptation to them.

367

And it can be hard to be faithful

in repeating everything so much.

368

What were the hardest years

with Ben as you look back?

369

Emily/Jake: I feel like each season

has come with its challenges.

370

I think I see it in two chunks and I'm

anxious to hear what you have to say also.

371

But I would say the younger years

when we were trying to figure it out

372

and discipline just wasn't working

for Ben, like it was every other kid.

373

And so that was a very difficult

season because we were trying to

374

figure out what the disconnect was.

375

By the time he had gotten to kindergarten,

we knew that there would be struggles

376

in school but we didn't know what those

would be or what that would look like,

377

and I would say his first, second, and

third grade years were difficult because

378

we were understanding the cadence of now

we're not just at home like learning,

379

don't touch that, how to behave.

380

We're not just going over that.

381

Now we're in school and

we're adding testing and and

382

academics and extracurriculars.

383

So we're adding all of that to the scene.

384

And so that became a different

kind of hard because now we're

385

injecting other people into his life

also in authority and instruction.

386

And so now we're bringing them

along for the ride, so to speak,

387

and trying to loop them in.

388

So I, that came with a different

hard because you're being super extra

389

communicative with teachers and so that

came with its own set of challenges.

390

If I'm being very honest, I feel like

, when he was young, every year was hard.

391

And then we moved into middle school

years and you began to see it clicking.

392

It was like, oh good, I see it clicking.

393

And then it would be like two

steps forward, five steps back.

394

But we saw progress.

395

And probably middle school would

you say was the first time I feel

396

like I started to see , connecting.

397

Yeah.

398

And then moved to high school and

I feel like that was just a game

399

changer for Ben because he was really

like growing in leaps and bounds.

400

All the little years were hard.

401

Yeah.

402

Because you're exhausted, you're

sleep deprived, you're trying

403

to do all the right things.

404

I was grateful times 1000 that we had

taken and trusted I'd taken and trusted

405

and learned some biblical principle.

406

And so I knew this biblical

principle would not fail us.

407

And we felt strongly about that together.

408

Yeah.

409

That we had to just really

stay strong on that.

410

but those years were hard and

structure also became key.

411

And you were so great at that.

412

Jake was great at making sure everything

was structured probably because you

413

would thrive in that area too, but he

became good at implementing structure.

414

Yeah, structure and routine were

absolutely essential for sure.

415

I would also say that the hardest

years I would agree were probably

416

the pre-diagnosis because there

was a lot of, defeated moments

417

for us, and we didn't know why.

418

After the diagnosis, it was like

we at least had something to

419

connect it to and understood Yeah.

420

Where it was coming from.

421

And that allowed us to at least

figure out how to connect and resonate

422

better or differently with him.

423

'cause apparent, obviously what

we had been doing wasn't always

424

effective, so what could we do?

425

And that allowed us to approach

it a little differently.

426

And then, yeah, to your point the middle

school years some of it started to take

427

effect and so we had a little bit of hope.

428

And then as the high school years

progressed it moved from parented

429

assisted to individual ownership

by the time, graduation was there.

430

Yeah.

431

Which was such an incredible thing to see.

432

It was I absolutely a work of the Lord.

433

But I do wanna speak to also, when we

got that diagnosis, when you were talking

434

about that when we talk about this, I

often refer to receiving that as receiving

435

a roadmap to how Ben's brain worked.

436

Because along with the A DHD as often

happens there are accompanying things that

437

can be, and for him it was also dyslexia.

438

Yeah.

439

And so many things made sense.

440

The nights at the homework table

where Jake was just working with

441

him and there were tears and

Ben just couldn't connect it.

442

And so all of that really

made sense and it became a

443

roadmap to how his brain works.

444

And and so I would encourage.

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Parents whatever route you go to

get the diagnosis, because there

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are different routes that if you are

able to do it, you absolutely should.

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Because it will give you like I

said, a roadmap and a paper trail.

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And that paper trail becomes

really valuable as they move on

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throughout their school years.

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And if they choose to move on to

college or whatever the case is, that

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paper trail becomes very valuable.

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Stephanie: Was there any fear

in the diagnostic process?

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you have any hesitancy or even shame

that this feels like it's my fault,

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do you remember any of those thoughts?

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Emily/Jake: Oh sure.

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There's definitely guilt as a parent.

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Anytime your kid struggles with anything.

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There's guilt associated and you see

it as I, Ben struggled in kindergarten,

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so you know that, oh, it was our fault.

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We weren't prepping him.

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We didn't get him enough like

educational toys for Christmas.

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We, like you assign all of these blames

to yourself for your children's struggles.

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But you don't see it initially in

the redemptive way that I look at

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it now as God redeeming and using

these yes, these for his glory.

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You don't see that until you're looking

at it through the lens of hindsight.

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.

Stephanie: And then receiving the diagnosis, it just felt freeing for you,

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this wasn't something that we did this

is just how his brain works, and now

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we know how to set him up for success.

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Emily/Jake: Yes.

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And I for me personally, I feel like I

love advocating for the people I care for.

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And so for me, I didn't feel shame

by the time we got to diagnosis.

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I felt like this will give me the

ability to advocate well, because

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I had worked through all of that.

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Did I feel shame when he was little?

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Yes.

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When?

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When we were chasing him around

the church and he wasn't listening.

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Yes.

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I felt a lot of shame.

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But by the time we had got to the

point of diagnosis I didn't feel shame.

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I felt excited and like , this will

give us the ability to advocate for

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what he needs for his next steps.

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Make sure you come back next

week for part two of this

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conversation with Emily and Jake.

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They're gonna get a little bit

more practical and talk more about

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the structure that they mentioned

several times in this episode, both

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in what it looked in the younger

years, and as Ben got older.

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I'd like to share a verse that I've been

praying particularly for my son that

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has a little bit more gusto for life.

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Colossians 1 28 29 says him, we

proclaim, warning everyone and teaching

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everyone with all wisdom that we may

present, everyone mature in Christ.

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For this, I toil struggling with all this

energy that he powerfully works within me.

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I think about all that the Apostle

Paul accomplished for the Lord's glory.

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A lot of these kids that have

intensity certainly have potential

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to serve the Lord in a mighty way.

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And I know I usually end each episode

praying over you, but have you heard

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of our new daily podcast, the Dwelling

Place Bible Plan for Busy Moms?

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Each weekday episode is under 10 minutes.

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In it, I read the word over, you help

you apply it to parenting, and then I

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close in a different prayer every day.

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I'm gonna link that in the show notes.

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And I hope you can make that

part of your daily routine.