The inaugural session of the series on 'Allan Kardec and Joanna de Angelis: Spiritism Viewed through the Lens of Transpersonal Psychology' explores the profound concept of the image of God as the organizing center of the psyche.

The speakers, Gelson Roberto and Alexandre Fontura dos Santos, delve into the intricate relationship between spirituality and psychological well-being, utilizing the foundational texts of Allan Kardec's 'The Spirits' Book' as a reference point. The discussion is framed within the context of transpersonal psychology, which seeks to integrate spiritual experiences into the understanding of human psychology. They posit that the question posed by Kardec, 'What is God?' rather than 'Who is God?' invites a deeper philosophical inquiry into the nature of divinity that transcends mere personification, urging individuals to reflect on their own psychological experiences of the divine. This nuanced dialogue emphasizes that while the universal nature of God exists as an absolute reality, our individual interpretations and relationships with the divine are profoundly shaped by our levels of spiritual consciousness. By examining these concepts, the speakers illuminate the intrinsic connection between the psychological constructs within us and the overarching spiritual truths that govern our existence, ultimately guiding individuals toward a harmonious integration of both realms.

Takeaways:

• The podcast starts a profound exploration of Allan Kardec and Joanna de Angelis, integrating Spiritism with transpersonal psychology to illuminate the psychological dimensions of spirituality.
• A significant discourse emerges on the concept of God as the organizing center of the human psyche, reflecting the intricate relationship between divine perception and psychological experience.
• The speakers elucidate how individual consciousness shapes the subjective image of God, highlighting the psychological intricacies involved in understanding the divine within Spiritism's framework.
• Through the lens of Jungian psychology, the discussion emphasizes the innate drive towards spiritual evolution embedded in all individuals, illustrating the universal quest for meaning and connection to the divine.
• The interplay between the ego and the self is critically examined, drawing attention to the necessity of integrating these aspects to achieve psychological balance and spiritual growth.
• A compelling narrative unfolds regarding the transformative power of suffering, as articulated by Joanna de Angelis and Jung, suggesting that personal trials serve as catalysts for deeper spiritual understanding.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Spiritist Society of Bournemouth
• Brazilian Spiritist Medical Association
• AME Brazil
• The Spiritist Institute
• Mansão do Caminho

Welcome to Spirit, Mind and Meaning, a podcast that explores the intersection of psychology and spirituality through a spiritist lens. Today we start the series Allan Kardec and Joanna de Angelis: Spiritism Viewed through the Lens of Transpersonal Psychology.

This is Episode one, the Image of God as the Organizing center of the Psyche hello everyone. It's a great pleasure to welcome you to the first meeting of our study group.

Alan Kardec and Joanna DeAngelis Spiritism viewed through the Lens of Transpersonal Psychology this series is the result of a collaboration between the Spiritist Society of Bournemouth in the United Kingdom, the Brazilian Spiritist Medical association, often referred to as AME Brazil, and the Spiritist Institute in the United States.

Our hope is that tonight's study will deepen your understanding of the spiritist writings of Alan Kardec and Joanna DeAngelis and offer you a more integrative view that brings together spirituality and transpersonal psychology.

Before we begin, a quick note about this series these talks were originally conducted in Portuguese with simultaneous interpretation into English for a live virtual audience.

What you're about to hear, and what you'll hear in future episodes of the Alan Kardec and Joanna DeAngelis series is a reenacted English translation of those talks created for your convenience. While the delivery may not always sound as natural or spontaneous as a live recording, please note that the content has not been altered in any way.

We hope that having these ideas accessible in English offers more value than the occasional limitations in tone or flow. Thank you for your understanding. And now let's begin.

We're honored to welcome two distinguished guests this evening, Gelson Roberto and Alexandre Fontura dos Santos, both representing AME Brazil. The theme of tonight's talk is the image of God as the Organizing center of the psyche.

Our discussion will be rooted in part one of the Spirit's book, specifically the chapter on God, as well as part three, Chapter one, which explores divine or natural law. Let me begin by introducing our speakers.

Gelson Roberto holds a master's degree in clinical psychology and is a specialist in Jungian theory and psychoanalysis.

He is a former president of the Jungian association of Brazil and the author of several books on psychology and spirituality, including works centered on the teachings of the spirit.

Joanna de Angelis Gelson currently coordinates the center for Spiritism and Psychology at the Brazilian Spiritist Medical association and leads courses on the psychological series by Joanna de Angelis, which serves as the foundation for for this study series. Alexandre Fontura dos Santos is a psychologist, historian, and educator.

He teaches courses on the Spiritus psychology of Joanna De Angelis and is a member of the Spiritus Medical association of Rio Grande do Sul, a state in southern Brazil. Internationally, he also teaches through the Spiritus Medical association of Brazil.

And now it is my pleasure to turn it over to Gelson and Alexandra for tonight's study, the Image of God as the organizing center of the Psyche.

Good evening everyone. It is a joy to be here together with Alexandra and the other colleagues who will be part of this discussion.

We are from the nucleus of psychology and spiritism of AME Brazil.

As Fabricio mentioned at the beginning, it is a great joy to be engaged in this project with him and Dan working to explore the ideas of Kardec and Joanna DeAngelis. Alexandre will say hello to everyone and then we will begin by bringing forward some important reflections on today's topic.

Hello, dear friends from many lands across our beloved planet. It is a great joy to begin this fascinating study of Kartec's work through the lens of Joanna DeAngelis spiritual psychology. So let's begin.

Let's get started.

One of the fundamental questions that Kardec presents in the Spirit's book, one of the core works he left us, transmitting guidance from the spiritual world, is his very first question, what is God? He does not ask who is God? But rather what is God? This question by Kardec in a way offers a more profound and philosophical approach to the divine.

However, as individuals with a psychological perspective, we each experience different levels of consciousness and this often leads us to personify the divine. The question what is God? Reflects a more universal dimension of the divine reality.

But the psychological experience of the divine from an individual perspective reflects one's level of spiritual consciousness and ability to cultivate a personal image of God within.

What Gelson is bringing to our attention is that as spiritual beings, we also experience a psychological relationship with the divine, with God within us.

The psychological experience of the divine is one of the core experiences of the human soul, which is why it has been studied across all civilizations and throughout all historical periods. Joanna does not introduce a new school of psychology, but instead offers a spiritist interpretation of the psychological aspects of the human soul.

Everything that Kardec reveals about the nature of the spirit is also a psychological reality because we are transcendental spiritual beings. This is what I want to introduce here. One thing is God is reality and another is our image of God, the psychological experience of God.

These are two different realities. One is universal and absolute and the other is subjective and experiential, formed within each individual psyche.

The Swiss psychologist Carl Gustav Jung, a Name you will hear frequently in our study is referenced extensively by Joanna de Angelis because his psychological framework aligns well with the perspective she presents. Jung stated that belief in God, the immortality of the soul, and communication with spirits forms the foundation of all civilizations and cultures.

The evolution of human consciousness has always stemmed from the belief in a transcendent order. And this is such an important point, friends, that Gelson is bringing up.

Because the goal of our study is precisely to take a psychological approach to Kardec's work, I often refer to this as the psychological aspects of Kardec, which is essentially what Joanna DeAngelis does. She provides a psychological perspective within spiritism. This belief is present in all spiritual traditions.

At the very least, we can say that it represents an innate psychological manifestation of the human experience. The belief in God, in a higher power, and even in communication with ancestors has existed across all human societies.

And it is precisely here that we find the intersection of spirituality and mediumship. This shows us how central this psychological experience is to our nature.

Exactly, Alexandra. This is why Jung firmly asserted that no one can live without God.

We may choose the concept of God that we wish to revere consciously or unconsciously, but the idea of divinity is intrinsic to human psychology. This brings us to a deeper reflection on how our existential experiences shape our relationship with the divine.

The images we hold of God, how we interpret and relate to divinity, are reflections of our internal psychological processes.

From a spiritist perspective, we can consider that God is within us and that we participate in his divine presence through the breath of life that permeates us and the entire universe. There is no real separation between us and the divine.

However, there is a tendency among many people to place God at a great distance, as if he exists in some far off reality, requiring us to engage in special rituals, intercessions, or emotional states in order to reach Him. We know that prayer is a sacred way to commune with the divine. But in truth, prayer only intensifies a connection that already exists.

This means that there is no real separation between us and God. Our world and our reality are not disconnected from his presence.

In her book Children of God, Joanna DeAngelis affirms that we cannot live without God. Jung also expresses this idea when he says that humans need God to exist, just as God needs humanity in order to be recognized and expressed.

Joanna expands on this in her chapter God in you, stating that God needs you and that he resides within your inner world, within our innermost being, even if we do not consciously recognize Him. In many ways, the divine presence manifests itself in our lives in countless ways, both internally and externally.

Even if due to our ignorance, arrogance, or selfishness, we often fail to recognize his closeness.

Joanna then calls on us to open our hearts and truly feel the love of his presence which sustains the universe, the air we breathe, the sunlight that nourishes life. Everything is a reflection of the divine presence within and around us.

She explains in God in you that God needs humanity in order to be reflected in us. Through acts of love, we can experience God in our lives and in our relationships with one another.

The invitation is not just to perceive God within ourselves, but to recognize his presence in all things and in all beings, allowing us to fully embrace the reality of our immortal nature.

Up to this point Gelson in what you're bringing up for those who have already read the Spirits Book, I know we have a broad audience and perhaps not everyone has read it yet. There is a question Kardec poses. How do we perceive God?

The spirits respond that at our current level of spiritual evolution here on earth, our consciousness is still not capable of perceiving God directly. That would be an attribute of spirits in more advanced stages of evolution, such as Christ, who had the ability to perceive God directly.

But we feel and intuit God. When do we feel and intuit God? In two ways.

First, as Gelson mentioned, by analyzing nature, marveling at the beauty of creation, and recognizing God in others, which serves as a call to awareness, this in turn generates an internal feeling within us. We have an innate sense of God that accompanies us, which provides us with a kind of intuition, an instinct.

And this is where the connection between Joanna DeAngelis deep psychology and Kartec comes in. This instinct guides our development toward the highest potential that lies within us.

It's interesting that in question 621 of the spirits Book, Kardec asks how we can observe and follow Divine law, how evolution and goodness unfold through it.

Continuing from what Alexandra is saying, the spirits answer Kardec by explaining that divine law is inscribed in human consciousness. And this, from a psychological perspective, is incredibly significant.

As Alexandra was reflecting on, we see that the more evolved the Spirit, the greater its clarity in perceiving God in his fullness, to the point that Jesus could say I and the Father are one, but as I mentioned earlier, we are always in the presence of God. Contact with the divine is unceasing. Kardec also expands on this idea in Genesis, another one of his works.

In Chapter two, which discusses God, his nature, providence, and vision. He clarifies that our entire Existence is permeated by the divine.

And what's truly remarkable is that God's love is not hindered by the blurred perception of the Spirit that is still unaware of its own divine reality. We can understand that God's presence manifests in two ways. First, through his love in a direct and constant relationship with us.

And second, through the divine logic of natural laws that govern the universe, which also exists within us, referred to as consciousness.

By consciousness, I don't mean the egoic limited awareness of our temporary identity in this incarnation, but rather the deep ethical consciousness, what we might call the higher Self, the divine Self within each of us. This inner divine force is the self regulating mechanism of our lives.

In Jungian psychology, this is often referred to as the Self with a capital S, a concept that represents both our spiritual essence and the regulating force of life that drives our creative potential as spirits. We propose that all beings, from the moment they develop self awareness, begin a journey of searching for themselves and and ultimately for God.

From the moment the Spirit first manifests as an intelligent being, it exercises free will and starts to experience the law of cause and effect. This journey, from our first stirrings of awareness to our deepening understanding of divine law, is the spiritual path of every incarnate soul.

In essence, we emerge from God unconsciously and return to him consciously. And just.

As a plant instinctively turns toward the sun, knowing deep within that it needs light to thrive, we too, even unconsciously, are always seeking God, even if we do so in limited, mistaken or distorted ways. From a psychological standpoint, every human being will in some way have an experience of the divine.

What Gelson is describing, this natural pull toward God, is something Joanna DeAngelis refers to as Theotropism. This attraction to God guides the entire development of the psyche, shaping our psychological structure.

If divine law is inscribed within us, then we are all in a way pre programmed with an innate awareness of this law, a kind of inner compass guiding us toward alignment with it. This is incredibly significant.

If what the spirits revealed to Kardec in the mid 19th century is true, then sooner or later philosophy and science would inevitably reach the same conclusion. And in fact we find this exact idea in Jungian psychology.

Gelson mentioned the Self, which in Jung's psychology means the deepest essence of our being. But this self is not just the I that we identify with, our age, our personal identity, the responsibilities we carry in life.

The self is something greater, something beyond our personal identity. It often manifests as an inner voice, a force that propels us toward greater psychological and spiritual Balance.

This force doesn't just maintain order, it is also dynamic and creative. It organizes and reorganizes our psychic experience, guiding us toward greater wholeness.

Jung's ideas align in striking ways with what the spirits communicated to Kardec. This is why Joanna de Angelis incorporates Jung's terminology in her teachings, because it mirrors key spiritist concepts.

For Jung, the unconscious is not purely chaotic as Freud proposed. Freud saw the unconscious primarily as a reservoir of repressed instincts and primitive drives.

Jung, however, acknowledged that while destructive impulses and repressed material do exist, there is also, at the very core of our being, a self organizing creative force that propels us toward growth and balance.

We find similar, though less detailed ideas in the work of Viktor Frankl, who speaks about the search for meaning, and in Carl Rogers humanistic psychology, which emphasizes the actualizing tendency, our inherent drive toward personal growth. But the concept that most closely aligns with the spiritist view of divine law within us is Jung's notion of the self.

This means that even in the most hardened, destructive and hate filled individuals, there is still a force within them that draws them toward goodness. They may be out of sync with it. True, not everyone manages to harmonize with their inner divine nature.

When we talk about the image of God within us, we are referring to a spiritual imprint, a deep seated awareness of the divine within our being. Whenever we mention image in this study, we are using it in the way poets use the word.

Not necessarily as a literal visual figure, but as a spiritual imprint, a deep recognition of God within us.

What you're bringing up, Alexandra, is important because we can think about the psyche as having two centers. The psyche is the totality of the self. There is the ego, which is the center of the field of consciousness.

It is not consciousness itself, but it resides at its center. Then there is a center of the entire personality, the regulating force of the psyche, which is the self.

The ego often believes itself to be the center of everything. And in doing so, it loses its connection with the axis that links the ego to the self.

The entire psychological and spiritual journey is about re establishing this axis, allowing the ego to become a true conduit for something greater. Jung explains that the ego is a poor commander, but an excellent servant.

The great personality of the self wishes to express itself through the small personality of the ego. Our task is to allow the smaller self to serve the greater. Our way of reaching what is great is by serving it.

Since all of us carry the living image of God within, this image guides us as a creative and regulatory force. As Alexandre Described.

Jung says that the role of consciousness is precisely this Human consciousness was created to recognize that its existence comes from a higher unity, to dedicate itself to that source, to carry out its guidance in an intelligent and responsible way, and thus bring about an optimal level of life and psychological development. This also extends to our co creative role in the unfolding of universal creation. This is what an expanding consciousness looks like over time.

The ego is not destroyed by the self, it is not annihilated. Instead, it gradually integrates into the self until at some point we can truly say, like Christ, I and the Father are one.

This also brings to mind the idea that in our earliest incarnations, when we were still primitive beings, our decisions were largely dominated by material and carnal instincts and our consciousness was very limited. Over the course of many incarnations, we refine ourselves. Eventually we reach a point where instincts no longer rule over us.

Instead, we develop a more evolved consciousness that can orchestrate instincts rather than be controlled by them.

As this process unfolds, we gradually become more attuned to our inner intuition, to the self, to our connection with God, to that divine law written within us. A time will come in our spiritual evolution when this inner voice becomes undeniable, much clearer than it is now.

Perhaps we can recognize this in the personalities of saints, in elevated souls who have transcended their egoistic limitations. They are no longer, or at least far less self centered than the rest of us.

They may already be living in harmony with this inner voice, guided by their connection to the divine.

Conversely, when we act selfishly, impose our will on others, or disregard their well being, we violate divine law because we ignore the inner guidance that leads us towards harmony and balance. When we do this, we cause suffering in others and experience suffering ourselves. I noticed that Bob raised an interesting question via the chat.

Does this mean that Adolf Hitler and other mass murderers also had the self? That they too carried the image of God within them? It may seem impossible to accept, but we are all children of God, including Adolf Hitler.

From a psychological and spiritist perspective, how can we understand this? Psychologically, we can say that he indeed had the self within him, but his relationship with it was deeply diseased.

There are many ways that one's relationship with the self can become distorted. One of the most dangerous ways is when the ego believes itself to be the self. When someone mistakes themselves for the center of everything.

In other words, I am the sun. We saw this for example, with Louis XIV of France, the Sun King, who saw himself as the center of everything.

And today, how many self Proclaimed Sun Kings. Do we see how many individuals believe that what they think and feel must be the law that governs the world?

So what we're looking at here, Alexandra, is ego inflation. Right?

Exactly. Exactly. What Gelson is saying refers to what psychology calls inflation, a pathological condition.

In Hitler's case, for example, we see clear signs of extreme mental illness, which stemmed from his mistaken belief that he was the self itself, that he was this divine figure to be revered. But this confusion leads to dehumanization, and that is extremely dangerous. From a spiritual perspective, it's not much different.

Hitler, like all of us, has had and will have many incarnations. All the harm he inflicted did not just wound millions of souls on earth. It also wounded the divine spark within him.

I believe there is a being of light inside him, greatly suffocated, of course, and deeply damaged by what he did, even if he wasn't aware of it at the time. Over many incarnations, he. He will reconcile with this. Because, as Joanna de Angelis teaches, our destiny is spiritual perfection.

Some of us will reach it quickly, while others will take much longer. If someone chooses chaos, as was the case with this historical figure, then their progress will be exceedingly slow.

At some point, however, the hunger for love and forgiveness will become stronger and stronger. Often this awakening requires facing the pain we've caused. Only then can we begin to transform.

We don't know how many lifetimes this historical figure will need before he reconnects with his inner divinity. But according to spiritism, this is the ultimate destiny of all souls. That is why we have eternity before us.

This is where it's interesting to explore the psychological process behind it. When a spirit reincarnates, it revisits, in a condensed way, its entire evolutionary journey.

During gestation, from a biological perspective, the fetus goes through developmental stages that mirror its evolutionary past. From an amphibian like stage, through a reptilian phase, to a mammalian stage, before reaching the complexity of its current human form.

From a psychological and spiritual perspective, a similar process takes place. The spirit revisits its past evolution before reaching the level of consciousness it has achieved in this incarnation.

When a child reincarnates, it is constructing a new self image, a new identity. However, we must remember that this body, this identity, is a temporary construct.

Being black or white, rich or poor, beautiful or unattractive, Brazilian, European or American, these are merely roles we assume. These are the costumes we wear in this lifetime, allowing us to experience life and engage in our spiritual learning process.

This costume is not the self.

Rather, it is the necessary framework that enables us to engage with the fundamental lessons and challenges we need for our spiritual progress in the formation of personality and ego identity. The child's self, its true spiritual essence, is initially fused with the ego.

Over time, as the ego emerges from the self, an axis begins to form between the two. For the first six months of life, the child experiences a state of oneness with the self. Everything is part of them.

There is no distinction between I and you, and even the relationship with the mother is experienced as an extension of themselves. As the child matures neurologically and emotionally, it starts to develop consciousness, a process known as the disintegration of the self.

The self begins to experience itself through physiological sensations, sleep cycles, emotional responses, and interactions with the external world. Through this mirroring process, the self gradually reintegrates these experiences, forming nuclei of consciousness which eventually shape the ego.

Over time, the ego and the self separate, creating an ego self axis. Initially, the projection of the self falls onto the parents. They serve as the child's first experience of the divine.

Parents set boundaries and introduce frustrations, showing the child that they are not omnipotent, that they are not the self.

Through these interactions, children learn to integrate their experiences, whether positive or negative, and combined with character traits from past lives, they form their ego self axis.

Now, as Alexandra mentioned, if this separation between ego and self is not properly developed, the individual may continue to believe they are the self.

For example, narcissistically nurtured children who are raised to believe they are the center of the world may grow up without developing a healthy distinction between the ego and the self. If they also have a primitive, egocentric, spiritual nature, they are likely to hold on to the illusion that the world revolves around them.

This can lead to an inflated ego self dynamic, resulting in pathological personalities, including psychopathic and antisocial traits. On the other end of the spectrum, some individuals lose their connection with the self entirely.

They may feel detached from life, rejected by the world, as if their early experiences of trust and love were never reciprocated. Due to spiritual tendencies or unresolved traumas, they may struggle to comprehend this divine connection.

This creates a deep sense of separation, leading them to feel unworthy of life, forming a negative relationship with their inner self, as if this divine source could never accept or or love them. These various ego self imbalances shape the way we relate to the Divine and to life itself.

When individuals lose this connection, they unconsciously seek external substitutes for what they are missing. They project this fundamental need for divine connection onto external objects or ideas, which they cling to as essential to their existence.

This could be money, power, sex, ideology, or even religion itself. From a psychological perspective, the self is the most essential aspect of life. It represents the foundation that sustains our existence.

And because this internal image of the divine must be anchored somewhere, it can become projected onto anything. A belief system, a nation, a leader, or an ideology.

That is why Jung says that it is impossible to live without God, but we can choose which God we devote ourselves to.

Another point that helps us better understand this once again, comparing deep psychology with Joanna DeAngelis Spiritist interpretation is that for Jung, the self is a golden concept. It is central to his theory. He tells us that the self is both the totality of the psyche, meaning both the conscious and the unconscious mind.

And at the same time, it is the center of the psyche. But why is it the center? Because everything within us organizes itself around it.

It is the guiding force that directs us toward greater integration and our highest potential. It acts as our inner compass, steering us toward wholeness.

This is why we have an innate drive toward growth, despite all the chaos and difficulties we may experience. So what is Joanna DeAngelis view on this?

Joanna not only agrees that Jung's concept is correct, that both incarnate and discarnate spirits retain this structural center within their psyche, but she expands on it. She tells us that in the final analysis, the self is the spirit itself. She equates the two concepts.

This explanation can be found in several of her works, including Life Challenges and Solutions. But what does it mean to say that the self is the spirit? It refers to the spirit in its highest potential.

And I emphasize potential because we should not assume that simply by disincarnating we will suddenly gain access to all the wisdom, balance and enlightenment of the self. That's not how it works. If it were, the character Andre Luis from the book Noso Lar would not have suffered so much after his death.

Andre Luis found himself in a lower vibrational state, experiencing the so called umbral, or lower spiritual zones, a spiritual dimension of suffering. Had he been spiritually balanced and enlightened, he would not have undergone such painful experiences after death.

This is why Joanna refers to the self as the spirit in its highest potential, the sum total of all its incarnations. The self is not just the individual's experience in one lifetime. It is the accumulated wisdom, growth and evolution across multiple existences.

Let's take a moment to explain, Alexandre, what the umbral is and who Andre Luis was. Because some people may not be familiar with these concepts.

Andre Luis is a character in a series of spiritist novels which describe his spiritual journey after death. He was a doctor during his life on earth, and after disincarnating, he was confronted with the full weight of his past actions and moral state.

This moment of transition into the spiritual world is a profound encounter with oneself. He found himself in a challenging spiritual condition, forced to face his unresolved issues, past mistakes, and emotional baggage.

Spiritism teaches us that in the spiritual realm, we experience the reality of our own inner state. We vibrate at the level of our own moral and spiritual consciousness.

The umbral where Andre Luis initially found himself is a spiritual region of low vibrational frequency. It is not a punishment, but rather a reflective state where the soul is confronted with itself and with other spirits at a similar vibrational level.

This means that our spiritual environment is shaped by the consciousness we carry within, by the commitments we have made, the virtues we have cultivated, and the mistakes we have yet to reconcile.

So we can say that Andre Luis arrived in the spiritual world burdened by his unresolved psychological complexes and inner conflicts. Throughout our course, we will explore the concept of psychological complexes, but.

But for now, we can understand them as emotional entanglements and distorted perceptions that cause spiritual suffering.

He entered the spirit world as an unilluminated soul without inner peace, without light, simply immersed in the vibrational experience of his own egoism and spiritual unrest. When we talk about vibrational experience, we mean a spiritual sensation that manifests almost as a form of suffering.

In reality, it is a moral pain, a discomfort that arises when we are out of harmony with divine law and our inner truth. This helps Clarify why Joanna DeAngelis expands upon Jung's theory.

She tells us that the self is the spirit, but it is the spirit in its wholeness, across all its lifetimes, all its experiences, and all its learning.

One important aspect of what you're saying, Alexandra, is that as we construct our notion of the self throughout our spiritual evolution, we must understand that we have a mental body, a subtle body. In spiritism, we refer to these various bodies collectively as the perispirit, also known as the psychosomatic body or spiritual body.

This body serves as a subtle covering that the spirit uses to express itself.

This idea has a parallel in philosophy, particularly among French philosophers of the imagination, who discuss the concept of image not simply as a visual representation, but as a fundamental mode of expression that regulates the manifestation of the soul. Jung himself states that psyche is image and image is psyche. Our first experience of psychological reality is through image.

Everything we perceive Sound, color, scent is an image. Everything is a metaphor for spiritual realities. Matter itself is a symbol, a physical representation of the spirit's mind.

This means that every psychological experience passes through an image.

Likewise, in our relationship with God, we carry an internal image of the divine, a representation that reflects our own psychological and spiritual understanding of God. Shaped by our evolutionary level, this image of God can manifest in multiple ways.

When we conceive of an idea or a logical structure, that too is an image. When we connect God to nature, that is an image.

When we project our longing for power onto God, believing power to be the most fundamental force in life, that too is an image. In essence, we are constantly shaped by images which serve as symbols of the divine. This symbolic experience of God takes on countless forms.

It appears in dreams, in recurring themes in our lives, and even in emotional symptoms. Our internal image of God evolves through different stages and levels, following humanity's collective evolution.

For example, in Moses time, we see a God of strict justice, one who follows the law of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. When Jesus arrives, he brings forth a new collective image of God, the God of love.

From a spiritual perspective, each era reflects a particular image of the divine, an image that aligns with humanity's evolutionary capacity. This evolution happens on both a collective and personal level.

Each of us carries our own experience of the divine, shaped by the images we form both internally and externally. Thus, our internal image of God influences not only our personal spiritual growth, but also our relationships with the world and others.

And as Gelson pointed out, this image of God evolves over time, reflecting the spiritual progress of the human soul and the advancement of civilization through different epochs. I'd like to refer here to question 626 of the spirits Book, where Kardec asks, were divine and natural laws only revealed to Jesus before his time?

Did humans only perceive these laws through intuition and the spirits respond, have we not already said that these laws are written everywhere, since they are within man himself? All those who have contemplated wisdom throughout history have been able to understand and teach them through their teachings.

Imperfect as they may have been, they prepared the way for future understanding. Divine laws are inscribed in the book of Nature. Therefore, they have always been accessible to humanity as long as humans have sought them.

This is why moral teachings, though incomplete or distorted, have been present in every civilization that emerged from barbarism. This means that all civilizations that have moved beyond barbarism have shared a fundamental awareness of divinity, of a cosmic, universal order.

Of course, each culture expresses this understanding through its own Myths, traditions and symbols. At the same time, we see that every culture also possesses a sense of goodness, beauty and moral discernment.

Jesus himself introduced a more advanced image of God, refining earlier conceptions. His vision of God as love was a spiritual update, much like how we update our technology today.

Even when someone claims to be atheist, we often find that they carry within them a vision of a just, harmonious society, a belief in something greater, more balanced, more ideal. Could this not also be an unconscious expression of the divine order? Kardec did not come to deny or contradict Christ.

Rather, he provided a new scientific framework to help us better comprehend spiritual truths in light of contemporary knowledge. That is why the spirits tell us that truth exists everywhere. However, it often reaches us, fragmented, incomplete or distorted.

Because our human consciousness is still developing its ability to express this truth clearly. This brings us to a crucial point. The divine image serves as an inner guide for each individual.

We can observe this innate drive toward goodness, beauty and order across all human societies. This is a foundational idea for our entire course. That within us we have an internal compass, an intrinsic directive towards spiritual evolution.

Later in our course, we will explore the process of individuation. Not to be confused with individualism, individuation is the process by which a person integrates their personality in alignment with the self.

This is essentially the action of the self upon our consciousness. It is the inner force that continually pushes us toward reorganization and growth.

As this reorganization unfolds in our lives, we call this process individuation. For example, imagine a young person preparing to face the world. They feel the need to socialize, overcome fears, develop a sense of self.

Society may not impose an explicit rule telling them they must do this, but they feel a natural impulse to grow, to connect, to explore. This is an inner drive, an instinctive force pushing them forward.

Even when a young person challenges their parents, it may not be because the parents are inadequate, but rather because they feel an inner need to differentiate themselves, to develop their unique identity. This, too, is the self guiding the personality toward greater wholeness.

It is an innate impulse to evolve, to refine, to reach a better state of balance and completeness. If this process happens on an individual level, it also happens on a collective level, shaping entire civilizations.

This internal image of God, this guiding force, is essentially a representation of our highest potential, a vision of what we are capable of becoming. Thus, we return to our key concept. The self is both the totality of who we are and the divine image within us. Imago dei.

I think we can open it up for questions Now. Right, Fabricio. If anyone has a question they'd like to bring forward, or if there are any in the chat, we can address them now.

If not, we can continue discussing the topic a bit further.

Gelson and Alexandri, we have a question. In the Spirits Book, Kardec asks whether we can fully comprehend the nature of God.

The spirits respond that we cannot because we do not yet possess the capacity to grasp the full complexity of God. That made me think.

Since we are making this connection between spiritism and Joanna DeAngelis psychology, what does Joanna's psychological framework offer to help us understand this limitation? The spirits say we lack the necessary faculties to fully comprehend God's complexity.

If we bring this idea into psychology, what does psychology tell us about about our personality and our ability to comprehend something so vast as God? Does that question make sense to you?

That's an important question, Fabricio, and we can connect it with what Kardec explains in Genesis. He states that the spirit feels While God knows, each being, depending on its level of evolution, experiences reality differently.

Some simply feel, some think, and others act in diverse ways. But God is aware of everything that happens within his creation.

This means that there is always a connection between us and God, but our relationship with him is different at each stage of our development. This is what we call a luminous experience.

Jung adopts a term from Rudolf Otto, a scholar of religion who defines every emotional experience of the divine as numinous or or luminous. The numinous experience carries two essential elements.

It is awe inspiring, almost terrifying in its vastness, and it is fascinating, drawing us towards something far greater than ourselves. Every psychological experience of God carries both fear and fascination because it involves an immense force beyond our comprehension.

Our consciousness is like a small vessel trying to contain an infinite ocean. And of course, it cannot fully hold or grasp that immensity. So attempting to understand God solely through rational thought is incredibly difficult.

However, there are other paths that allow us to transcend our limitations, namely, the path of faith and the path of love. God's love is not hindered by our distorted perceptions or by our sense of smallness. Nor is it blocked by any mistakes we may make.

Of course, we cannot yet comprehend God in his entirety because doing so would require a much higher evolutionary stage. This is why the psychological experience of God varies according to our spiritual level. But we can transcend these limitations.

We can experience God in a higher dimension through faith, love, and transpersonal experiences, which are luminous experiences. These experiences occur in moments of meditation, prayer, and loving relationships.

They elevate us even if Just for a moment, allowing us to perceive life and divinity from a higher perspective. As we evolve, our ability to relate to and comprehend God deepens. This understanding is not only external.

We do not need to seek God outside ourselves. Above all, it is a connection we cultivate within, in our own hearts, in our relationship with ourselves, and in our inner alignment with the divine.

Thank you, Gelson. Here's another question from the audience. Severina's question is, why did Jesus say on the cross, father, why have you forsaken me?

If Jesus was in complete harmony with God, why would he express such a feeling of abandonment?

This connects with another moment in Jesus journey, the agony in the Garden of Gethsemane, when he already knew what was going to happen and said, father, take this cup from me. There are many interpretations, both in psychology and spiritism to understand why Christ would have said these things.

I believe it was important for him to demonstrate his submission to God's will in even though his personal self, his human aspect, did not welcome that experience, it was important for him not to want that suffering so that we could understand that to forgive, to endure trials, and to carry our own cross does not mean embracing suffering as a path to spiritual evolution. This may sound redundant, but consider how deeply ingrained the idea of suffering as a path to divinity is within our collective psyche.

Many people still romanticize suffering, believing that they must actively seek pain to become spiritually enlightened. But this is not true. We already experience enough suffering in our lives, enough to allow for growth.

What we need to learn is how to deal with suffering, not how to seek more of it. Actively seeking suffering or inflicting it upon ourselves adds nothing to our spiritual progress.

What Christ demonstrates in this moment is that although he questions and expresses anguish, he he ultimately accepts what must happen. His cry, why have you forsaken me? Is not a revolt against God or a lack of understanding of divine law.

Rather, it is a way of showing that he was fully present in the human experience, living through the pain and intensity of the moment while accepting his path with awareness and surrender.

Adding to what Alexandra said, everything Jesus experienced and exemplified for us represents essential aspects of our own spiritual journey. His life symbolizes the process of individuation, the search for wholeness and spiritual fulfillment.

Jesus is the archetype of the fully realized human being. As he himself says, I am the way, the truth, and the life. Jung tells us that the Christian myth is deeply embedded in the human psyche.

Our personal journey inevitably intersects with the story of Christ because his trials reflect universal, existential struggles. At some point in our lives, we all experience a kind of crucifixion, not in a literal sense, but symbolically.

The cross itself represents a moment of suspension, crisis and transformation. The vertical axis of the cross symbolizes our spiritual aspirations, our connection to higher values and moral principles.

The horizontal axis represents our daily experiences, our earthly struggles. As human beings, we exist at the intersection of these two dimensions, caught between our material and spiritual realities.

This tension is inevitable.

There are moments in life when we feel stuck, when the ego resists the self, when we stubbornly pursue paths that are not aligned with our highest truth. The self as a regulating force creates tension when the ego refuses to listen.

The greater the ego's resistance, the stronger the inner conflict becomes, leading to what Jung calls a neurotic crisis.

Jung explains that at some point we will all face moments of deep crisis, impasse or existential paralysis, our own version of being crucified by unresolved issues or conflicting forces within us. This kind of inner conflict cannot be resolved by the ego alone, nor can it be entirely dictated by the unconscious.

Instead, the constant tension between the two creates the conditions for the emergence of the self. When Jesus cries out, father, why have you forsaken me? He is not expressing actual abandonment by God.

He is demonstrating the human experience of feeling empty, lost and disconnected moments before his ultimate transformation.

It is the final moment of surrender, the dissolving of personal identity in preparation for the resurrection, the emergence of the self in its full glory. This is a deeply psychological and symbolic image.

It mirrors our own moments of uncertainty, when we feel like we don't know what to do, when we feel abandoned, when life seems void of meaning. The dark night of the soul, a concept explored in the poetry of Saint John of the Cross, speaks to this spiritual emptiness, this existential void.

In those moments, it feels as if God has abandoned us, when in reality, we are standing on the threshold of a profound transformation. Jesus Cry on the Cross is not just a historical or religious statement.

It is a universal human experience, one that each of us will face at some point. And just like Jesus, our darkest moments often lead to our greatest transformations.

I am in God's hands.

How many times in life do we lose power, lose status, exhaust all our efforts to secure health, well being and stability, only to feel as if we have been utterly defeated? In those moments, we are truly in God's hands. As Joanna de Angelis teaches, life consists of both trials and triumphs.

To be persecuted and to be chosen, to gain and to lose, to experience pain and joy, abundance and scarcity. These are all part of the set of experiences necessary for the Spirit to evolve over the course of an incarnation.

Everything we go through has value and purpose. This emptying of oneself is not accidental.

Jung, whose insights often align with spiritist principles, saw Christ as the greatest embodiment of the self and individuation in human history, particularly from a Western perspective. What's fascinating is that before Jung was even born, Kartech had already posed this question to the spirits.

He asked, who is the greatest model of an evolved being that has ever been sent to earth? And the spirits answered, jesus is the highest example of a pure spirit to have ever lived among us.

Throughout human evolution, Jesus serves as our guide and model. Learning does not come only from teachings and words. It comes especially from example. Everything that is in Christ exists within us.

All human characteristics can be found in him, but expressed in their most refined, elevated and enlightened form. At this point, someone might ask, but how can we say that Christ possessed all human characteristics when we clearly do not act like Him?

How can we compare ourselves to such perfection? The answer is that he experienced all aspects of human existence, but at the level of a fully developed spirit.

He understood family, but in a purified and transcendent way. He confronted others, but with wisdom and love in perfect balance.

He experienced death, nourishment, labor, rest, solidarity and hope, all the themes of human existence, but in their highest, most conscious expression. Spiritism presents Jesus as a living testament to what we will one day become.

Kardec explains that pure spirits, whom many religious traditions call angels, are simply beings who have completed their evolutionary journey. They no longer need to reincarnate for growth, but continue their development in spiritual realms.

Because of this, they are capable of perceiving God directly. So what does it mean psychologically to be purified?

It means that we have already lived through the storms of our emotional conflicts, faced our past mistakes, and corrected ourselves over many lifetimes. Only then do we reach the clarity and peace necessary to see God without distortion.

Thank you, Alexandra. Here's another question we received. What can we do to become more aware of our own ego inflation, and how should we handle it in others?

Pain itself is often our greatest teacher in this regard. Recurring struggles and emotional conflicts show us where to start paying attention in our lives.

If I am arrogant or inflated with self importance, I will inevitably make mistakes, hurt those around me, and create suffering for myself. Life then begins to send signals through conflict and hardship. Of course, not everyone chooses to acknowledge these signs.

Some ignore them entirely and continue making the same mistakes but for those who grow tired of self inflicted suffering, a shift begins when we start to care not only about ourselves, but about how we impact others. We are already hearing the self calling from within.

This self awareness can reveal ego inflation, which in truth is something we all experience at times expanding and contracting, inflating and humbling oneself. These are natural movements of the human psyche.

However, when inflation becomes pathological, it dominates personality, sometimes even leading to psychopathy or severe narcissism.

A key step in managing this ego inflation is to release the illusion that we must have all the answers, that we must always be the best, or that our worth is dependent on being above others. Accepting our flaws, our struggles and our vulnerabilities with compassion allows us to gradually heal ourselves with love.

As we do this, we cultivate humility, which paradoxically provides a deeper sense of security than arrogance ever could. The vain and inflated individual is deeply insecure, constantly seeking external validation.

True humility, on the other hand, comes from an inner sense of stability, where we are no longer trying to place ourselves at the center of the universe. Strangely enough, when we step out of the need to be the center, we experience a surprising sense of well being and freedom. Go ahead, Gelson.

An important aspect of this discussion is that as I mentioned earlier, God is always in relationship with us. This connection never ceases.

The self, as an inner voice of the divine within us, maintains a constant dialogue with us, even when we shut the doors, even when we lose our egoic connection with divinity. The self does not lose its connection with us.

At all times, messages from God are present, inviting us, whether through the path of love or the path of pain. Life itself as a self regulating system, creates tension that seeks to awaken human consciousness even when it remains closed off.

This tension pushes the ego toward a rediscovery of the self, a reunion with the part of itself that it has lost. This process manifests in various ways. One of these, as I mentioned, occurs through dreams and through life's significant events.

Another powerful mechanism we observe is the phenomenon of synchronicity. Coincidental events that carry symbolic meaning and reflect fundamental aspects of our lives, serving as triggers for our psychological awakening.

Sometimes the divine presence reveals itself in a loving way, while at other times, as in Buddhism, it may appear in its wrathful form.

When an individual remains inflated with egoic identification and disconnected from the self, this opposition generates intense psychological tension. The energy of this conflict inevitably needs to manifest in the material world.

And this external manifestation creates a concrete reflection of the individual's inner struggle, offering an opportunity for Awakening, for example.

It could be a life changing event, perhaps a near fatal car accident that forces the person to reevaluate their entire life and reconsider the things they once held to be true. In this way, these experiences unfold constantly, regardless of how closed off we may be.

The further we are disconnected from ourselves, the greater the pressure life exerts upon us. A compensatory force designed to provoke self awareness and renewal of consciousness.

Thank you, Gelson and Alexandre. I'm mindful of the time we're reaching the end of our session. Do you have any final thoughts? To conclude our discussion, I would like.

To share a poem that was psychographed by the medium Chico Shavia.

Attributed to a spirit who chose to be identified simply as Spirit, this poem beautifully captures our journey and relationship with divinity as well as how God manifests in life and the universe. I will read it slowly so that we can fully absorb its meaning. Difficulties are my motivation. Obstacles are my lessons. Experience is my school.

Peace is my refuge. Consciousness is my guide. Form itself is my manifestation. Love is my law. God is my father. Joy is my song. Pain is my warning. Nature is my mother.

Light is my fulfillment. The universe is my path. Eternity is my kingdom. Work is my blessing. A friend is my companion. Immortality is my life. The mind is my home.

An adversary is my teacher. The heart is my temple. My neighbor is my brother. Struggle is my opportunity. Truth is my worship. The past is my warning.

The present is my reality, the future is my promise. Balance is my approach. Order is my key. Beauty is my ideal, and perfection is my destiny.

Thank you, Gelson. What a beautiful way to end our study session tonight. Thank you, Alexandre, Gelson and Dan.

We are truly grateful to have had you here and we look forward to our next study session. In that session, we will explore the influence of spirits on our thoughts based on the records of our own spirit.

We are also excited to welcome Alexandra and Tiago as our speakers. Thank you all for joining us tonight and for your contributions to our study group.

I wish everyone a wonderful evening from England and I hope to see you all soon. Goodbye for now.

The Spirit, Mind and Meaning podcast is an effort by the Spiritist Institute to help improve people's lives through greater spiritual awareness.

This episode was produced by the Spiritist Institute and the Spiritist Society of Bournemouth in collaboration with the Brazilian Spiritist Medical association and Manson do Camino.

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