The central theme of this podcast is the profound exploration of the dynamics between love and respect in marital relationships, as articulated by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs, the esteemed author of "Love and Respect" and his latest work, "Light Bulb Moments." During our enlightening discussion, we delve into the complexities of how men and women perceive love and respect differently, and how these distinctions can lead to misunderstandings and conflict within relationships. Dr. Eggerichs shares invaluable insights drawn from his extensive research and experience, emphasizing the necessity of recognizing and valuing each partner's needs in order to foster harmony and understanding. Furthermore, we examine the pivotal role that communication plays in bridging gaps and resolving conflicts, particularly for couples who may feel miles apart despite being just inches away from understanding each other. Ultimately, this conversation serves to illuminate the path towards healthier and more fulfilling relationships, encouraging listeners to engage with these foundational principles in their own lives.

Takeaways:

• The Clarity Podcast aims to provide insight and encouragement for life and mission, fostering deeper understanding.
• In discussions, we highlight the essential concepts from Dr. Emerson Eggerichs' works, particularly 'Love and Respect' and 'Light Bulb Moments'.
• A significant theme in the podcast is the unique communication needs of men and women, emphasizing that they require love and respect differently.
• Listeners are encouraged to process the podcast's insights with their teenagers, especially in the context of dating and relationships.
• Dr. Eggerichs emphasizes that often conflicts arise not from malice but from misunderstanding, highlighting the importance of giving each other the benefit of the doubt.
• The podcast illustrates that understanding the emotional needs of one's spouse can lead to improved relationships and reduced conflict.

Hey there and welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.

This podcast is all about providing clarity insight, encouragement for life and mission.

And my name is Aaron Sandemier and I get to be your host.

Today we have the phenomenal opportunity to have with us on the podcast Dr. Emerson Eggerdge.

We get to talk about his book that I've carried around with the world for me, Love and Respect.

But then we also talk about his new book, Light Bulb Moments.

And so it was a just a joy to have him on the podcast just to spend some time with him, get to learn from him.

I've listened to him on Focus on the Family and other podcast mediums.

I'm not only a podcast producer, a podcast consumer, and loved what he shares in this podcast, his basis on God's Word and the importance of just learning how God has designed the men and women and, and how we're designed differently and at the same time both equally valued and loved and important and so just really enjoyed having him on.

One of the things in the role that I serve in is recognizing that missionaries not commonly come off the field for missiological or theological reasons.

Pastors probably don't step out of the ministry necessarily for those reasons.

But I think probably what's most common is when a marriage begins to dissolve or problems within the family seem to be the more common reasons.

At least I know in missions that's one of the more common reasons for missionaries to come off the field.

And so just thought it would be great to have him on the podcast today just to learn from him and to provide some, some wisdom and insight for us as we navigate.

This is obviously not going to be a podcast that if you have young kids that you're going to want them to listen into, this would be a podcast for you as a parent to listen to first.

And once you've listened to it and decided whether you would want your kids to listen to it, not that would be your choice.

I do think it'd be an interesting podcast for you to be able to process with if you have teenagers, specifically those that are dating, just to understand the differences behind the man and the woman and the way we communicate what we value and the insights that Dr. Emerson presents.

It's.

Yeah, just.

Just a valuable, valuable conversation.

Do want to ask you to continue to send in your questions for Back channel with Foth.

That's where we sit down with Dick Foth and get to learn from him, get to learn from Dick's wisdom, insight, insight and experience.

And just been fun having back channeling with Foth on the podcast, I think it's over six years now.

He's been answering listener questions and still getting questions that nobody's asked before.

And so that's exciting.

So I should continue to send in those questions and also ask you to subscribe.

I know the podcasts I subscribe to are the ones I listen to, download them and have them in front of me throughout the week.

Really want to thank you for listening in and many of you have listened in to a lot of the episodes.

We're pushing towards past 350 now, moving towards 400 and do really appreciate you for listening in over all these years.

Well, there's no time better than now to get started.

So here we go.

Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.

So excited to be here today with a new friend of the podcast, Emerson.

Welcome to the Clarity Podcast.

Thank you Aaron.

Looking forward to this and your audience.

What a very distinguished audience you have and worldwide nonetheless.

Yes, for sure.

And what an honor to be with you today.

You know, when I was we were looking for this interview, I pulled out the book that my wife and I have taken to.

We took it to Burkina Faso, Burkina Faso, to Madagascar, Madagascar to Kenya and now it's back with U.S. united States.

Love and respect for those who have not listened to you and focus on the family and other podcasts have not read your books.

Will you share a little bit about yourself before I start asking you some questions?

Yes.

I pastored a Trinity church in East Lansing, Michigan, the college town, Michigan State University.

The Spartans are there and I was there for almost 20 years as the senior pastor and called to Study the scripture 30 hours a week as the philosophy ministry.

So I would exposit the scripture for that particular church and grateful for that opportunity during that time I saw a verse, Ephesians 5:33, which is the summary verse to what some consider the greatest treatise in the New Testament on marriage where the Apostle Paul says, husbands, love your wives, agape is the Greek word there, and wives respect your husbands.

And I knew there wasn't a whole lot of debate on the first part.

I have my PhD in Family Studies from Michigan State University.

Most of the people in that class were women feminists, great women, just, you know, good willed people.

But they didn't like the idea of respecting a man.

And women will say, you know, he hasn't earned it, he doesn't deserve it.

I'm not going to give him license to do whatever and just be a dutiful wife and respect him when he does wrongdoing.

I'm not going to, you know, be treated like a doormat.

I'm not inferior to him.

The dictionary definition of respecting someone is respecting your superiors.

He's not superior to me.

I really think you have a hidden agenda and that's return us to male patriarchy.

And I'm not going to go there.

I certainly am not going to set the feminist team back, you know, 50 years.

And I don't feel any respect for him and I'm not going to do something that causes me to feel hypocritical.

But other than these things, I'm really open to hearing what you have to say about this.

Wow.

And that was the mantra.

And I always ask our audience, you know, we've been doing the Love and respect conferences for many years.

Due to focus on the Family promoting it.

They sponsored us for many years.

And I would always go through that mantra and it'd be a huge laughter.

And then I'd say, how many of you have sons?

And they'd raised their hands and I said, that's the attitude.

Your sweet daughter in law.

And she's not mean spirited.

She's, she's fearful of being dismissed.

She's fearful, it's a fear that comes over them.

But that's what she's going to say to your precious boy.

And he's going to look like a deer in headlights.

But I knew I went to military school from 8th grade to 12th grade because of family issues.

We were not Christ followers.

So issues of honor.

I applied to go to West Point.

I'd met with my congressman.

I mean, this was huge to me.

And because I understood men respond to honor, we serve and die for honor.

Pat Riley had me come speak to the Miami Heat.

I was the first person.

He said, you're the first person I've ever asked to speak to one of my teams.

A lot of people want to.

Boy said no.

But he and I spent five hours talking about how men respond to honor and justice.

And when they're honored and justly treated, they'll serve and die for you.

But if they feel dishonored and unjustly treated, they will cause mutiny.

They'll jump ship or they'll throw you over ship.

And then I thought to myself, I said to Sarah, what happens when you feel unloved?

I'll bet this text is revealing that you react in a negative way that appears disrespectful to me, though that's not your intent.

And I'll bet when I feel disrespected, I end up reacting in a negative way to you that feels unloving to you.

And thus was born what I call the crazy cycle.

Without love, she reacts without respect.

Without respect, he reacts without love, and it spins.

And I point out that women need respt and men need L O, V E. But we've asked 7,000 people this question.

When you're in a conflict, are you more likely to feel disrespected or more likely to feel unloved?

In Aaron, 83% of the men said they feel disrespected.

72% of the women say they feel unloved.

So it's not an absolute.

But what I always say to people, if that crazy cycle makes sense to you, then the question on the table is this.

Have you ever had a conflict with your spouse when suddenly the issue didn't seem to be the issue and you saw their spirit deflate?

In all probability, you're stepping on her air host to her oxygen tank labeled love, and you're stepping on his oxygen tank labeled respect.

And so we have been campaigning for the last 25 years helping couples jump off that crazy cycle.

Does that make sense?

It's a lot, but it makes sense.

And I can say definitely it resonates with me.

And I think that's probably why your book went for my wife and I, from Burkina Faso to Madagascar, Madagascar to Kenya and Kenya, back to the U.S. one that had spoken many, many times to us.

You also have a new work that you've written, a new book.

Can you share a little bit about that before I jump into some?

I got a bunch of questions, but can you share about that light bulb moments in marriage?

Yes.

12 biblical perspectives for Successful and Satisfied Couples.

People wrote over these last 25 years.

We had a light bulb moment.

A light bulb moment.

And this is so encouraging.

I went back through all the emails and looked for those expressions.

We had a light bulb moment.

And what was it that they were referring to?

And I put 12 in the book.

They're more than that.

But, you know, these 12 are a great way to begin where people, you know, come to this point, Aaron, where they feel that they're miles apart.

Yeah.

And they get really discouraged in the relationship after a decade of marriage, 20 years of just the roommates and they love the Lord, but they're not really doing ministry together.

They're really not praying together.

They had a sense of destiny.

They had a sense that God called them.

They had a sense that he joined them together.

But they're now kind of on individual paths.

They, you know, they try to be respectful in the family, but they will have these moments of, you know, where they step on the landmine and, you know, they're not really doing the relationship as they know that the Lord intends, but they really don't know what to do.

They've really tried sincerely and their spouse has not responded what they perceive to be in a good faith response because they've appealed to them.

Hey, if you just make this little change, I'll be happy.

And it works.

Can't you just do this?

It's not that big of a deal.

But then they do it for a little while and then they stop doing it.

And then there comes this moment, where do I really matter to you?

Do you really care about me?

And so there is this moment where people really feel like we're miles apart.

But the deal is they're only inches apart.

However, they're in a dark room.

And they don't know that.

And it's not more effort.

And this book is dealing with this.

It's not more effort.

It's more light.

We don't need more effort.

At times, we need more light.

If you don't understand what's going on, then we begin to be suspicious of the other.

And one of the questions I often ask, does your spouse have basic goodwill?

Based on 1st Corinthians 7, 33 and 34, the husband is concerned about how to please his wife, and the wife is concerned about how to please her husband.

Paul penned Romans, the great treatise of total depravity, but he doesn't say to those at Corinth, you know, you're having these troubles because you're sinful and selfish.

Get over it.

Stop it.

No, you're both created in the image of God.

That residual effect remains there.

And so you have a point where now you have to make a decision, are your feelings going to be the voice of God or is Scripture going to be the voice of God?

And he is saying that your husband is concerned about how to please you.

Yes.

At the end of the day, you feel displeased, like he may not care, but Scripture is saying that he does.

Same thing.

You may think that your wife doesn't care and that she didn't want to please you, that she gets up early in the morning to storyboard ways to annoy you.

But Paul is saying that's not the case at all, that she's a virtuous, good willed woman and we have to then give them the benefit of the doubt during these conflicted moments.

And that is one of the illuminating moments where people begin to reframe things.

Wait a minute.

In my opinion, she's coming across disrespectfully, but in fact, she's crying out for my love, that she's feeling insecure and she's seeking reassurance and wants to connect.

Her whole mindset is to be reassured of love.

Her whole mindset is she is critical in complaining and confronting because she's trying to do, in her world, the caring, loving thing.

Yeah.

She's not thinking about being contemptuous.

And 85% of those who withdraw in stonewall during a conflict as the husband, because we've researched now that the heartbeats get to 99 beats per minute, he's in warrior mode.

So he has to shut down, he has to withdraw.

It's either fight or flight.

And he doesn't want to fight.

So in our world, if you and I were best buddies, we would say, drop it, forget it, let's just drop it, you know, because the relationship is more important than the stupid issue that we're arguing about.

So when a man then withdraws in stonewalls, in my interpretation, he's doing what is what I call an act of honor.

But in the research, women were asked, what do you feel when he withdraws?

It feels like an act of hostility.

And so you have this man who is seeking to be honorable but is now interpreted as hateful.

And so I always ask the audience these questions when she's critical and complaining, is it really an act of care or an act of contempt?

And when he withdraws in stonewalls is an act of hostility or is it an act of honor?

Wow.

And if people can come to a point where they give their spouse the benefit of the doubt, and it doesn't mean that her feelings of being unloved are invalid.

It just means that his motivation needs to be understood.

And it doesn't mean that his feelings are invalid when he feels disrespected, but you have to validate her motive as.

As healthy.

And so this has been a major breakthrough for thousands of couples there.

And that's one of those light bulb moments where one of the principles is not wrong, just different shades of right.

Wow.

Wow.

And so back to the earlier comment.

You said we need more Light, we don't need more effort.

And so.

And I think that goes, you know, contrary to what we would do.

Right.

We think we just need to put more effort and intention into this.

But you're talking about shining light.

Can you share another?

You just shared.

Shared one of the.

The light bulb moments, or is there another one that really jumps out to you?

Yeah, I mean.

I mean, there are 12 of them.

The.

Well, one of the things that I challenge on harmonization is one of the chapters.

Same team, same goal, different plays.

And the.

The thing that we need to remind ourselves, we all need effort.

I mean, I'm not downplaying the fact that effort is insignificant, but a lot of times we're trying really hard, but we're in the dark.

And so, you know, you keep doing the same thing over and over again.

Same ill effect, it has the same negative outcomes.

That's the crazy cycle we just keep spinning.

Because without love, defensively, she reacts offensively without respect, and without respect defensively, he reacts offensively.

Without love, One of the light bulb moments is we are insecure and defensive, but we don't understand the extent to which we are offending our spouse.

And then they're insecure and defensive, but they react in a way that offends us, and they don't see it either.

So we're taking up a fence and we're both clueless, and we keep appealing to the other person to stop it.

As we step on their air hose, they push us off of theirs and they stomp on ours.

And that's one word picture that's helped people.

But also coming back to the harmonization issue, that in these conflicted moments, one of us has to say, look, we're on the same team.

We're not opponents, we're allies, we're not enemies.

So we're not going to nuke each other here.

We are friends, we're not foes.

And I have found that that doesn't necessarily solve the different play that we differ with, you know, because we're going to have honest differences of opinion in the gray areas of life.

We're not talking about black and white moral issues.

But one of the things that really has softened people, and it doesn't take a whole lot of effort if somebody just says, okay, we don't like each other right now.

We're in heated fellowship right now.

We have a strong different difference of opinion here right now.

But we're on the same team.

We're allies, we're not enemies, we're friends, we're not foes.

We both have goodwill.

We got to give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Now, we both know I'm right, but I'm not going to go on record yet, but a little.

Put a little humor in there.

And I have just been stunned at how that restfulness comes over the couple.

And now they can begin to brainstorm because otherwise rationality at that moment goes out the window.

Particularly for the man.

If he feels flooded, it's called flooding.

He's not going to think reasonably, irrationally.

That's why he has to disengage, because he knows this isn't going to go anywhere in a healthy way.

But if one or both can say yes, we are teammates here.

It is amazing to me that it doesn't take a whole lot of effort, because God has two people who basically would die for Jesus Christ.

And I say to men, you die for this woman, but will you live with this woman?

But if two people who love the Lord can just have some kind of a little script that causes them to soften, then it's amazing to me how the Lord starts giving wisdom from above without reproach and generously.

And suddenly what they thought was a stalemate, isn't that at all.

And they're actually able to see a creative alternative or a third option that they wouldn't have seen had they just not said, hey, we're on the same team.

That doesn't take a whole lot of effort.

But that brings a light to the situation.

It brings a reminder.

And as amazing as it is, that's one of those powerful examples, Aaron.

Yeah.

Wow.

And so powerful.

And you shared about don't like them.

You know, was young and getting ready to get married.

My mom said to me, she said, you know, there are going to be days that she said, I always love your dad.

She said, but there's days that I don't like him.

And I thought, I don't like.

I don't know what that.

Like, I don't know what to do with that.

You know, I was young, getting ready married.

And she said, you know, there'll probably be days that, you know, you.

You'll always love Heather, but there might be days that you don't.

You don't like her.

And it's, it's.

And then you just highlighted there.

So maybe, maybe think of that for young couples that would be wrestling with that.

You know, they, they got married and they had this idea of love.

And there are times where they don't necessarily like the actions of their spouse.

Any other words of wisdom for them.

Well, part of the challenge for the younger generation is that because there's been such an emphasis on the fact that we're equal, the conclusion some make is that we're identical.

Wow.

And just because we're equal doesn't mean that we're the same.

So how does that play out?

Well, how it plays out is, well, in a conflict on a gray area issue of clashing and preference.

It's not a moral issue about, let's say, spending or saving.

And she says, well, I just learned that you need to kind of spend right now to invest in the young children, the family, the house, whatever.

And he comes from a saving, you know, frugal situation because he's thinking about future stability, and he's conscientious about the fact that he will be the one that dies first, she'll be the widow.

So he's already thinking, I have a responsibility to provide.

So now they're at a loggerhead.

Should they spend this money that they just got, or should they save it?

Let's say a $10,000 gift from their aunt.

She wants to take this and spend it.

He wants to save it.

Okay.

Now, in those situations, neither are wrong, just different shades of right.

But it would be easy for her to think, well, I know I'm right.

Yeah.

I don't want to be right.

I just know that I am right.

Right.

And that's where it becomes very problematic, because there's such sincerity here.

So if I know I'm right, then he's got to be.

And I always say to the audience, and everybody shouts wrong.

Right.

And because I know, as the woman, I'm the normal one, then he must be abnormal.

And so now we begin to weaponize these conflicts, and we moralize and we begin to judge with contempt, which Romans 14 is very clear that you're going to have these different convictions, different issues.

And Paul says, stop judging each other with contempt.

But we don't know how to do that.

We don't even have language that says, your position is less better than mine.

It's too clunky.

So we end up causing these quantitative comments to be made.

You're wrong.

Well, inherently, they're not wrong, but we don't know how to word ourselves in such a way that prevents the other person from being put on the defensive.

So as a younger couple, you have to begin to introduce language that does not cause your spouse to feel that you're judging them is wrong just because they have a difference of opinion.

Sure.

You're going to have to learn ways to move forward on this.

And also realize that because you are equal does not mean you're identical.

Based on Matthew 19, 4, Jesus said, have you not read he who made them from the beginning made them male and female.

And also First Peter three, seven, for instance, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way.

Since she's a woman precisely because of her femininity, we have to understand there is an XXXY chromosome.

And you have to then appreciate that because those differences are there so that you'll make better decisions together.

And as some people have said, if you're, if you're both absolutely the same, one of you is unnecessary.

And we also know that in Proverbs, iron sharpens iron, so one brother sharpens another.

And even Paul says in First Corinthians 7:28, if you marry, you've not sinned, but you will have trouble.

And part of that trouble.

Every text has its context.

In verse four he said, the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

And the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.

He's talking there about equal say, final say in the bedroom with regard to sexual and emotional intimacy.

So like on Tuesday night, does she decide they're not going to have sex and he decides they are.

Later in life, does he decide they're not going to have sex and she decides they are?

I said, lord, who decides?

And he said, yes.

And then I said, lord, have you designed trouble based on verse 28?

Yes.

See, and these special challenges are not outside the will of God.

They're at the center of God's will.

But if we have this 19 year old female mindset, if we love each other, that's all that matters and we won't have any problems.

That is naive.

And it is very important that one align with the holy word, not with Hollywood.

Wow.

Wow, wow, wow.

So continuing on that line of discussions around sex, one of the things you talk about with in the reality of love and respect, how does that inform the discussion around sex?

When the husband feels disrespected and the wife feels unloved?

So the husband's feeling disrespected, the wife's feeling unloved.

How can people begin to navigate that conversations around sex so that it doesn't discontinue to explode and further apart rather than drawing people together?

Is that a fair question?

Yeah, maybe.

To clarify the question, are you saying that when he feels, let's say, neglected sexually, he can feel dishonored and disrespected as opposed to the fact that outside the bedroom he's feeling disrespected and he doesn't have any interest in having sex?

Yes, I would say that he feels disrespected because.

And not honored because they're not having sex.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, that's the.

There's two levels of that.

Yeah.

So I wanted to clarify.

That's exactly right.

And that's an important point because it's so easy to profile our sons and ladies who have boys.

Your daughter in law is going to do this.

That he has an anatomy, has a need that only the wife can meet.

How is that sexual need to be met?

Apart from her either has to be celibate, self release or adultery.

Let's just be adults about this.

He didn't ask to be made that little boy in your womb when he came out.

He didn't ask to be a boy, he didn't ask to be that.

And that biological reality is there and he has a need.

Women tend to be a little bit different and if we haven't noticed that.

And so there is a challenge for us to come to this realization because obviously the man can be selfish, he can be lustful, he can use her.

All of that is true.

And so, but let's just step back and assume this man has good will and he wants to do God's will.

But you notice that he turns into a mood, a pout.

And so it's easy to label him as just selfish and lustful.

You're just being animalistic.

It's all about you.

That could be.

But then again, maybe you have a need to talk.

What if he said, Sarah at our conference says, what if he didn't talk to you for three days, three weeks, three months, three years?

You know, women have no problem with saying, well, I don't, I don't necessarily need sex for three days, three weeks, three months.

I mean, I can go without it.

I mean, not all women obviously, because God designed her to need that, but she could really do that if she knew that they were just being affectionate without sex and talking into the evening, a candlelight.

I mean, she could, she'd probably get turned on at that point.

But nonetheless, that could be extremely satisfying to him.

If the roles were reversed, he'd be going crazy.

Right.

And so there is this realization that hey, not wrong, just different.

And we've got to then understand each of us has different vulnerabilities.

But one of the reasons that your husband then withdraws or maybe Turns moody isn't because he's being selfish, but he's feeling dishonored and disrespected.

He doesn't want to take up offense, but he's feeling like, wow, this doesn't feel fair to me.

I feel dishonored.

And he doesn't know how to deal with those.

As I pointed out when I talked with Pat Riley, this is huge in his thing.

So a wife has to be sensitive of saying, I'm not trying to dishonor you when I say no tonight.

Let's just prepare maybe for, you know, tomorrow night.

We had that social event, but let's.

Let's get ready for Friday night or whatever.

So you are gracious to him, but if you just say no, you're being selfish.

You need to understand at a certain point, it's not about the sex.

It's about him feeling like, you don't understand my heart.

You don't understand my need.

You're dishonoring me in the same way that he says, well, all you ever want is it's just the same issues over and over again you want to talk about.

I mean, it's just the same thing over and over and over again.

I mean, it's just one more burden, one more.

I don't have a need to talk about this.

Well, wait a minute.

I mean, most of us know, because we become feminists in our orientation of intimacy, know that that's very unloving to a woman.

And so we support a woman who said, that feels very unloving to me, but technically, he doesn't need to talk about this.

I don't need this.

But it's because you need this that a man is called upon to be attentive, to be understanding, to be empathetic, to just listen without solutions.

We've been coaching men.

Why?

Because that's the key to your heart.

We haven't done a good job on the sexual front, but here's the deal.

I talk about it as a continuum, that we both need sex and emotional connection.

He needs it.

He needs emotional connection.

He wants her to be the best of friends.

That's why he married her.

She looked up to him.

He got an energy from the relationship, not just the sexual relationship, but he tends to come to the emotional through the sexual.

I've had wives who shut down on their husbands sexually, and I said, that's your call, but why don't you begin to worship Jesus Christ?

Just give that as a need to him.

One woman called me says, you can't believe we lay There in bed afterwards.

And he won't shut up talking, won't shut up, shut up.

So he's.

Because he wants that connection, the other side.

She wants sexual arousal, but she knows it comes through that emotional, unconditional, you love me for me without sexual intent.

And that's what turns her on, the irony.

And this is what a lot of men don't figure out.

And so in any event, I encourage people to figure this out, not the least of which is I gave Sarah 15 minutes every night for seven nights a week for I don't know how many years, when our kids are young, time for her just to talk because we realized we didn't have a set time.

And she was talking to me in between transitions, and I wasn't tracking, and it created heated fellowship.

So I said, you know, 15 minutes every night.

Well, this just took a weight off of her.

It was incredible.

And she responded on the other front in a.

In a way that.

And we.

Some women say, well, that's just too mechanical.

Is it too mechanical for him to talk to you seven nights a week?

Oh, no, no, no, no.

Okay.

So.

But also women said that allowed me to get into prepare.

But also on the off nights, if he touched me, I knew he didn't have sexual intent because there was no.

See, this is where people get so indirect.

They're making these hints, and then they get angry at each other.

You got to take that off the table.

There's got to be clarity.

And then it frees up the relationship.

And I say to two adults, and I'm writing a book called the Win Win marriage based on First Corinthians 7, where Paul talks about marriage.

And he's very clear here.

Stop depriving one another except by agreement, except for the purpose of prayer, and come together again.

Let Satan tempt you because of your lack of self control.

And I've taken 155 couples through the win win thing.

And I said, here's the thing that I think Paul's saying.

If you get it right in the bedroom, you'll get it right outside the bedroom.

Am I right or wrong in that?

Because I know if you don't have it well outside the bedroom, you're not going to get it right in the bedroom.

But I'm asking the question.

Paul starts with the bedroom.

And I was amazed.

Maybe 80% of those people said, no, that's where he got off.

And they said, if you get it right in the bedroom, that's the bedrock of all decision making outside the bedroom.

So this is no small issue.

This is a huge issue, which is why First Corinthians 7:4 says you both have equal say and you're both adults.

You both love the Lord, and I intend the Lord is saying for you to figure this out.

You can navigate this and you can do this.

Wow.

Wow.

Got one or two more questions for you.

One of the things you, you shared about in Love and Respect was the impact that your par conflict had on you.

If parents apply when it comes to love and respect, how can that impact future generations?

If they, they grasp the teachings that you're sharing and the realities of that, how can that help?

And they model that for their future, for their children and for the other generations.

Could you just share about that?

Because you shared in the book about how the, your, your parents conflict impacted you, and then you give us a model here that could, I would think, would impact, but in a.

In a different direction.

Is.

Is that fair?

Oh, well, absolutely.

I mean, I think you know the answer, and I think most of us know that.

I say, you know, it's important that we be the adult in the room, that we be the real deal.

And particularly the Gen Z's, they're looking for authenticity.

And if you're the real deal, they're, they're, you know, kids are going to go through teenage years where they're trying to establish their independence or all these issues, you know, in.

Howard Hendricks, the great family expert out of Dallas Seminary, used to say, you know, when kids turn 13, we should put them in a barrel and bury them then, and then take them out when they're 18, you know, so you can get through that.

I think he was the one that said, why.

Why was it a sacrifice for Abraham to, to sacrifice Isaac when he was 12?

Howard Hendrik said, because when he turned 13, it would have been no sacrifice.

You know, so, you know, particularly as we get in those 13, the kids are not going to necessarily always be responsive.

That's not an absolute, but that's the way they need to kind of become independent.

But we, we need to then say, hey, look, there's a melody coming out of your life.

And that melody needs to be authentic.

And eventually they're going to ask for the words to the lyrics.

It's just the way it is, the real deal.

Now in academia, we call it social learning theory versus compensatory theory.

Social learning theory means you're going to basically imitate your parents, good or bad.

And compensation or compensatory theory says you compensate.

That's what I did.

My dad had rage issues.

Dad committed adultery.

He attempted to strangle my mother to death when I was two and a half.

I witnessed that they were not Christ followers.

I come to Christ in military school at age 16 at Wheaton, my freshman year.

My mom receives Christ, my older sister receives Christ, my brother in law professor receives Christ, and my dad received Christ.

They all came to Christ my freshman year.

So we changed.

But I spoke at Liberty University to 12,000 students about being the wounded healer.

And.

But I made a decision to compensate.

But what we don't want to do is put our children in a position to compensate.

We want them to be under the social learning thing.

And there's no guarantee.

I mean, Solomon was the wisest of man, but his son, who he wrote to, was one of the most wicked kings that ever lived.

And so there's no guarantee of these things.

And these are principles and proverbs, not promises.

And so.

But nonetheless, I've just known through the years of pastoral ministry that the individuals whose children grew up to really love Jesus.

I had flashbacks of the Father standing in the narthex talking about the sermon, the kids, you know, junior high, standing around him with other dads there.

And this man is saying, man, did that sermon convict me today?

Man, do I have an issue with that?

I've got to really.

I got to do some business with the Lord.

I'm.

Boy, this is really.

Man.

He didn't say, hey, kids, did you get the sermon today?

What I saw is these kids were watching their dad make this kind of confession that authenticity.

And I look back on those kids today who were watching the fathers do that, and they all love the Lord.

Now, that doesn't mean you can make false confessions to somehow pretend we're authentic.

But there is this hope, then just plod, just plot.

I remember I did my PhD on effective fathers, right?

That's my dissertation, National Study.

It was a Friday night.

Our kids were all teenagers, and they all had an attitude.

And I often say, you know, I'd have been a great parent had it not been for the kids just kept interfering.

But it was a Friday night, and Sarah and I are there, and she said, what do we do?

I said, I don't know.

She said, well, you're doing your PhD dissertation on strong fathers.

I don't know.

All I know is we just need to pray.

We just need to pray, and we just spend time in prayer.

Because I went to military school for five years because of obvious reasons.

And so, you know, there's a.

So one has to then understand that there are these stages.

This is joy.

Our daughter at one point said to mom, just face it, mom, we're never going to be best of friends.

She was like, 16.

Well, they're best of friends today.

Best of friends.

So don't take these things at face value.

But I think it comes back to this issue that, hey, if we're just the real deal, if we're the adult in the room and we stay the course, the thing that doesn't really sour people is consistency.

In Romans 2, it was the hypocrisy of the Jews that resulted in the blasphemy of Yahweh of God.

You who teach another, do you not teach yourselves?

You who teach against adultery?

And because of that, God's name was blasphemed.

It's hypocrisy that is the main contribution to the rejection of the faith.

Wow.

And I loved how you said that in proverbs, they're principles, not promises.

And, you know, I think as a parent, we do want it to be a math equation.

You know, you do this, you do these, put these inputs, you get this output.

And I think any of us who are parents just know that that is not true.

But when it comes.

I remember coming across a proverb that says, answer a fool according to his folly.

And the very next verse says, do not answer a fool according to his folly.

And so that's proof that these are principles that you have to kind of look at the circumstance and situation.

It doesn't mean that they lack truth.

I mean, bring up a child in the way he should go, and he's older, not sure.

I mean, there's a principle that overall, all you know is very good.

But the righteous shall live long.

When Jesus Christ was crucified at age 33.

So, I mean, you have to understand, there's.

Every text has a larger text.

It doesn't mean that we don't find comfort in that.

But if you go through proverbs and look at the rebellion on the part of young children toward their parents, who were assumed to be basically righteous, that the son was violent, they lied.

They were.

I mean, you have to understand that.

That, hey, these are not to be verses just pulled out.

While you ignore the other verses that Solomon talked about there as well.

For sure.

For sure.

One last question for you.

When it comes to communication, maybe the spouse they're having.

They want to have a conversation with their.

They're listening to this podcast and it's resonating with them.

The other spouse has not listened to this Podcast, they want to have a conversation when it comes to love and respect or the.

The light bulb moments of your new book.

And they're just wondering, like, how do I begin this conversation?

Or maybe they said, I've tried to have this conversation before and it's turned into a fight, it's turned into an explosion.

Any words of encouragement for them on how they can begin those.

Begin a conversation one more time to help draw closer to their spouse.

Yeah, I think most women will respond to a husband said, I heard this podcast about me being more loving.

And I. I want to know if what he said about me more being more loving resonates with you.

She'll listen, period.

Now, that's.

There's no debate about that.

I mean, almost.

Unless.

Unless she's committed adultery and there's really a serious problem going on, she'll listen.

I mean, she's.

Wow.

Yeah, that's.

Wow.

Now, we haven't coached women to say this.

Said women are saying, you need to listen to this.

I mean, women are very maternalistic and they just kind of are.

And I said to Sarah, you know, I have a mother.

I don't need another mother.

I need a lover.

I don't need another mother.

I have a mother.

And so there's this sense to which you're critical in complaining you're negative, and you're sending the message that he's failing, that he's not good enough.

Instead, here's you.

If you're a missionary willing to die for Jesus Christ, then you have this strength to say this.

Jasmine, I learned something about how I think I dishonor you, and I come across in disrespectful ways.

That's never been my intent.

But you know what?

I really had an insight on how I think I dishonor you.

And that is really wrong.

But maybe I'm wrong in what I heard.

Would you be willing to listen to Aaron's podcast on what this Dr. Eggerich said about men and honor?

Yeah.

Wow.

He'll listen.

He'll listen.

See, we don't.

We.

We've removed this vocabulary from women because of the feminist movement.

It's biblical language.

Paul never commands a wife to agape, love her husband.

In the marital portions, there's no.

Only husbands are commanded agape.

But both Paul and Peter say, you win a disobedient husband, Peter, through your respectful behavior.

First Peter 3:1, 2.

Paul says, it's through respect.

Ephesians 5:33.

We have not coached women who love God, love Christ, love his word.

It's Kind of like women have said to me, why hasn't anybody told us this?

And they've said, I've read those passages a thousand times and never saw it.

Because God put within your heart and nature to nurture you, love to love.

And so it's all about love.

And there is this tendency then to judge him because he's less loving.

Because we're in a divine command, we don't have it in our nature like you do.

So wow.

It's so easy to point out to us that we're not as loving as we ought to be.

Well, Scripture itself tells us that we don't need you to pile on.

But you have a natural propensity to be disrespectful when you feel unloved.

Whereas we live more by the honor code, we don't go there with other men.

And other we just say so.

We have within our nature that honor code.

So.

So we need to give each other the grace.

But on this point, you need to trust me that the script that I gave to you, if you give voice to that, he'll listen to this podcast.

But you don't use that as manipulation to get him to now deal with him being more loving.

You've got to stay on that topic and just rest on that for a while.

Don't so many women.

One of the principles.

There's a fine line between motivation and manipulation.

And that's another one of those aha moments.

Just stay on that topic and don't be afraid of it.

Don't be afraid of it.

You're not going to be dismissed.

Fear comes over women.

I understand that.

Fear is what's behind this and you're not mean spirited, but just stay on that topic for a while and see how it plays out.

Just trust me.

Yeah, I wasn't going to ask you another question, but you keep giving me other questions.

Motivation, manipulation.

And then I'm going to ask you to pray.

What are some signs somebody could say that they're moving towards manipulation rather than just trying to motivate.

Is that fair?

Oh, no.

I mean, that's what I address in a whole chapter.

For instance, a guy says, I'm not going to love that woman until she starts respecting me.

So you use unholy means to achieve a worthy end.

That's manipulation.

Wow.

And the woman said, well, he hasn't earned respect, he doesn't deserve it.

I'm not going to respect him until he starts showing me love and affection.

Well, I'll tell you, no husband feels fond feelings of love and affection.

His heart toward a woman has contempt for who he is as a human being.

So that's manipulation.

But what we do, we do that because we're guarding our hearts.

Yeah.

We're.

We're hoping that they'll.

We're hoping that I can be very, very negative to motivate them to be very, very positive.

It never works.

And so I have to come to a point where I have a need.

I have a need for love and respect, but I can't deprive my spouse of what they need to motivate them to meet what I need.

Yeah.

And that's manipulation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I appreciate you very much and you've invested in my life and our family's life, and we're grateful.

We're thankful for it.

It's been an honor to have you on the PO Today.

We'll put in the show notes, links to the new book and, and to love and respect.

Also, would you pray for us today that God will use what you shared to encourage the missionaries that are listening in around the world?

Yes.

And they could also go to loveandrespect.com L O V E A N-R-S-P-E-C-T.com and we have some of our viral videos there that have gone just, you know, and there's entertainment, there's a lot of humor.

So I want them to have a smile on their face as well.

But let me pray.

Pray.

Father, we come to you through your son, Christ Jesus, and I thank you for this audience that Aaron has and individuals who've given themselves over to the cause of Christ.

But there is low grade warfare against them by the demonic, the enemy.

And Lord, I just know, I've been a pastor talking with missionaries over the years.

This is just a challenge.

And I just pray in the name of Jesus Christ that this message today would encourage them.

Sometimes it's just, just.

Well, we know many return from the field because of the marital tension and the very calling that they have on their lives is being undermined by this misunderstanding, which in most cases is just an honest misunderstanding between two people of goodwill.

And yet it comes to a point where they just are so frustrated and so hurt and even angry, and then the devil is given a foothold and it's all ugly.

But I pray today that there could be an illumination, an enlightenment, a real freedom that would come to them that, that they would do their part.

Their spouse may or may not reciprocate, but that there would be a new sense that they're pleasing you and that they're honoring you and that this book, light bulb moments that they would realize.

It's not necessarily more effort in some of these areas.

It's just understanding what's going on and why it's going on, and instead of griping, actually start grinning through Jesus Christ we pray.

Amen.

Amen.