Shownotes
StockX is facing significant challenges as it grapples with its ability to authenticate sneakers, raising serious concerns about the integrity of the resale market. Matt gets into the implications of StockX's admission that it cannot guarantee the authenticity of the shoes it sells, especially in light of the lawsuit from Nike.
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Transcripts
Stockx is in trouble because they don't know what authentic shoes actually are.
Matt Fraits:We're going to talk about it this time on Fire Footwear.
Matt Fraits:Welcome back to Fire Footwear, everybody.
Matt Fraits:As always, this is your host, Matt Fraits.
Matt Fraits:I hope that this finds you well.
Matt Fraits:And I want to thank everybody who has stuck with this podcast from beginning to now to the middle.
Matt Fraits:It doesn't really matter.
Matt Fraits:Y'all are really great.
Matt Fraits:And I just want to say thank you as I'm continuing to go through some hard times.
Matt Fraits:But I will tell you that I'm going to be headed home, back to the studio pretty soon.
Matt Fraits:So this is all going to change, and we're going to get back to our regular cadence.
Matt Fraits:But I did want to put out an episode this week because I wanted to talk about this whole thing with Stockx and really as it relates to the idea of authenticity.
Matt Fraits:Now, last week, I talked about DJ Clark Kent.
Matt Fraits:I talked about his passing, and I talked about what that meant to the culture.
Matt Fraits:And I think it's very important to acknowledge the fact that I think the idea of authenticity in the way that I think that it's very important, kind of originated from DJ Clark Kent.
Matt Fraits:And over the years and decades that he's been involved and over the decades that sneaker culture has evolved, I think the idea of authenticity has changed.
Matt Fraits:And where does StockX fit into that?
Matt Fraits:Well, it's a little complicated, but I think on the surface, or at least overtly in the news, Stockx was sued by Nike.
Matt Fraits:I think it was a handful of years back, and I'm pretty sure I did an episode on that at some point.
Matt Fraits:And I'm sure Sock Jake has talked about that in detail.
Matt Fraits:I know he has talked about it on Twitter.
Matt Fraits:So if you're looking for the real nitty gritty details definitely go to him because as I always say, he's doing some of the best work in sneaker content out there.
Matt Fraits:But the idea was that Nike tried to put fakes through StockX authentication process, and they failed.
Matt Fraits:And that's where we are today.
Matt Fraits:I believe in court, Stockx copped to the fact that they don't know really how to authenticate shoes or they don't know with 100% certainty whether the shoes that they pass on are 100% authentic.
Matt Fraits:And that is really a problem.
Matt Fraits:So this all kind of goes back to the idea of authenticity, but it also goes back to the idea and the presence of fake sneakers in the culture.
Matt Fraits:Fake sneakers have always been around.
Matt Fraits:They have been around for decades, and they have changed over those decades, I think the perception was that fakes were bad because of the fact that they just were bad.
Matt Fraits:They were quality bad.
Matt Fraits:And I think nowadays that has changed a lot.
Matt Fraits:I talk a lot about the rep market, fake market, whatever you want to call it, because I do think that it holds a very specific place within this culture because I think that it represents kind of sort of what makes sneaker culture.
Matt Fraits:I don't want to say bad, but I think what makes it a little bit toxic these days, because I think what it represents is the ability to have availability of all of the shoes that you want.
Matt Fraits:And the idea that you can get anything that you want at a super high level of quality for the most part, makes it so that you don't have to worry about anything that happens in sneaker culture.
Matt Fraits:You don't have to worry about whether shoes are going to sell out.
Matt Fraits:You don't really have to worry about anything.
Matt Fraits:And I think on the surface, I used to believe that that was okay because that we should all have access to shoes.
Matt Fraits:But as I've been doing content more, and I've talked about this before, I think that my views have changed on it.
Matt Fraits:I certainly am not going to stop wearing the ones that I own, but I have definitely stopped engaging in that space the way that I used to.
Matt Fraits:I still think that it's very important to have my fingers in on that particular space because I think it's important to see what is happening there.
Matt Fraits:Because I do believe that fake shoes, I do believe that the fake market does tell us a lot about what is happening in sneaker culture.
Matt Fraits:And I think when you look today, you see that many people are still buying the same things from five, six, seven years ago.
Matt Fraits:You don't see as many fakes of things that are coming out now.
Matt Fraits:And that is indicative of the fact that the culture has changed.
Matt Fraits:It is indicative of the fact that the economics of sneakers has changed to the point that we are so oversaturated with shoes that we don't see them the way that we used to.
Matt Fraits:Maybe that will change with the new CEO.
Matt Fraits:I know that they're going to go for more exclusivity, which is going to drive up hype.
Matt Fraits:But resell has been around in the way that we know it today for a little over a decade.
Matt Fraits:I would say resell always did exist.
Matt Fraits:It just existed in a much different way.
Matt Fraits:People did that on the side.
Matt Fraits:At the advent of Craigslist, you were seeing a lot of people trying to sell shoes on Craigslist, and that turned into Facebook marketplace.
Matt Fraits:Prior to that, you'd had message boards, you had ebay, the early days of ebay.
Matt Fraits:And that's how people would swap shoes.
Matt Fraits:Nowadays, if you want to pay resell, it is as easy as picking up your phone, clicking a couple of times, and paying what the going rate is of a shoe.
Matt Fraits:And the going rate in a lot of cases is way higher than the actual retail price of the shoe.
Matt Fraits:Not to sound like Bob Barker here, but that's where resell has kind of become another part and embedded into this culture.
Matt Fraits:And it's a very polarizing aspect, Much the same as fake sneakers are in the culture.
Matt Fraits:People see resell basically black and white.
Matt Fraits:You either love it or you hate it.
Matt Fraits:I think there is a lot of gray area, There's a lot of in between as to what resale means.
Matt Fraits:But resell has changed a lot in the way that we know sneakers today, and that is because I talked about last week when it came to authenticity, about the idea of authenticity, of wearing what you like and staying authentic to who you are as an individual, especially within this culture, to not just to conform to hype and trends and wear what you like.
Matt Fraits:I think that the market has evolved in a way that we are allowed to do that a little bit more, because it's not just jordans, it's not just dunks, it's asics, it's new balances, it's crocs, even.
Matt Fraits:There's a lot of options.
Matt Fraits:But still, resell exists because within this culture, hype and celebrities, within this culture, they drive a lot of what people want.
Matt Fraits:Travis Scott, even though he's come out with so many silhouettes, his shoes still sell.
Matt Fraits:They probably always will sell.
Matt Fraits:Ama maniere has been seeing a downturn in their sales, and there have been a lot of ama manieres.
Matt Fraits:They don't seem to hold the same gravitas as Travis Scott.
Matt Fraits:There are just people within the culture that are going to sell shoes, period.
Matt Fraits:There are just shoes that are going to be hyped, and they're going to cost more on the resale market than anything else.
Matt Fraits:And when you really think about it, it's capitalism, and it's really what the market drives.
Matt Fraits:Things are what people say, that they are worth what they're willing to pay for them.
Matt Fraits:And so while at the beginning I saw resale as this evil, I think it's a necessary evil within this culture.
Matt Fraits:But it's twofold.
Matt Fraits:Because when you go to the resale market, no matter what your income situation is, no matter what shoe, it is that you are looking for.
Matt Fraits:Your hard earned money is going into buying this shoe.
Matt Fraits:And it's no different than if you buy it from Nike or New Balance or Adidas.
Matt Fraits:You want to make sure that your money, however it is earned, goes towards something and you know that that product is coming back and everything is on the up and up.
Matt Fraits:And so When Goat and StockX get involved, there is a middle person or a middle section of this transaction that now is involved in a way that you really don't have transparency with.
Matt Fraits:Goat, StockX, even eBay, they send these shoes whenever they are sold to a third party who authenticates them.
Matt Fraits:They have given us very little insight into what that authentication process looks like.
Matt Fraits:There are other sites, I think it's Check Check, it's called that you can actually put pictures of a shoe and that you can get it checked, basically.
Matt Fraits:And I know that a ton of people in the fake market like to put their reps up there to see if they will pass.
Matt Fraits:I don't like that because to me it seems like, well, what is your next step?
Matt Fraits:What are you going to do with that?
Matt Fraits:Because when you start messing with people's money, when you start telling them that something is what it is, not when their money is involved, then I think that that is nefarious.
Matt Fraits:I know when I've purchased fake sneakers that they are fake sneakers.
Matt Fraits:I know that my money is going toward that.
Matt Fraits:But now when I look on ebay or when I look at StockX and goat, I'm a little hesitant because I don't know.
Matt Fraits:And so now fast forward to this lawsuit and StockX essentially telling the world we don't know whether things are 100% authentic.
Matt Fraits:And my man Devontae, the Mac ISM effect is his podcast.
Matt Fraits:You should listen to it.
Matt Fraits:Listen to what I said about Walmart and StockX partnering up.
Matt Fraits:And I said that the idea that I was really concerned about was whether people were going to be able to go and buy these shoes through Walmart's marketplace and that they were going to know that they were 100% authentic.
Matt Fraits:And I think even Sockjig talked about the fact that it was going to be a lot of people who maybe wouldn't have access to StockX or maybe were intimidated by StockX or goat going to Walmart and having Walmart be another intermediary in that transaction.
Matt Fraits:But those people, because they're not knowledgeable about the culture, they're not knowledgeable about fakes, they should be even more taken care of.
Matt Fraits:And that's what worries me so StockX is one of, or was one of the biggest players in resale.
Matt Fraits:The millions and millions of dollars that has been traded around because of shoes going on the secondary market and these people getting a huge profit off of what is sold, that to me should come with the idea that, you know, 100% that you're getting what you pay for.
Matt Fraits:And as time has gone on, you've heard more and more stories about people getting shoes that seem to be fake.
Matt Fraits:Not every shoe has a super, super easy tell, but if you are comparing to a retail pair many, many times, it is very obvious.
Matt Fraits:The differences are subtle on feet, but they should be very overt in hand.
Matt Fraits:And for StockX to have been around this long, for StockX to have so many shoes passing through their authentication process and to now tell the world via Nike and this lawsuit that they don't know what authentic really is, that's a huge problem.
Matt Fraits:Now what does it mean?
Matt Fraits:Does now the microscope get put on Goat in this way?
Matt Fraits:Does it get put on ebay in this way?
Matt Fraits:Your microscope as a buyer should always be on other marketplaces that don't even have this third party authentication, because you just have no idea.
Matt Fraits:It's the wild west.
Matt Fraits:But is Goat now under scrutiny?
Matt Fraits:Is ebay now fair game for scrutiny?
Matt Fraits:I think that they are because I believe that resale is still something that needs to happen so that people can feel hyped about shoes in a certain way.
Matt Fraits:And maybe it needs to be regulated.
Matt Fraits:Now how do they regulate it though?
Matt Fraits:And that's what I was saying about my man Davante is it's like what is authentic?
Matt Fraits:What does that actually mean?
Matt Fraits:Objectively?
Matt Fraits:It means that this shoe was produced by Nike, all the trademarks, everything that goes along with that and has gone directly to you.
Matt Fraits:You should know that.
Matt Fraits:But how do you tell that if you're stock X, how do you guarantee to your customers that that is the case?
Matt Fraits:And I think this is the linchpin now where we're going to be severely looking at resale culture and looking at how we 100% regulated.
Matt Fraits:And it almost feels like the only way to regulate this is that Nike, Adidas, Puma, whatever the brands are, that they have their own secondary marketplace that drives these prices.
Matt Fraits:I think we need to start thinking about getting rid of StockX, getting rid of Goat, getting rid of these third party individuals and platforms that aren't 100% sure that what you're getting is worth the money that you're paying.
Matt Fraits:And think about it.
Matt Fraits:Think about all the people that have bought from StockX over the decades.
Matt Fraits:How many of those people got fakes?
Matt Fraits:How much money was spent collectively on those shoes?
Matt Fraits:That means something to me because in order to keep the integrity of this entire culture, everything has to be on the up and up.
Matt Fraits:I, as a podcaster, have told you and been very transparent about the fact that I am mostly a fraud.
Matt Fraits:I'm not an OG, because I have dabbled in fakes, and I do have some.
Matt Fraits:But I think by being transparent about that, it's letting you know that I'm not somebody who's trying to be something that I'm not.
Matt Fraits:And stock X, by not knowing this is inadvertently making it so that they are something that they're not.
Matt Fraits:They're not a trusted platform anymore.
Matt Fraits:We're seeing the stock go down.
Matt Fraits:I wish that this would trigger something drastic.
Matt Fraits:I hope that we as a culture and the businesses behind this are going to take a really hard look at how we regulate this.
Matt Fraits:I don't think that these companies should stop people from spending the kind of money that they spend, because I think that is their choice.
Matt Fraits:But what I do think is that if they're going to spend that money, they should be 100% sure that what they're getting is authentic.
Matt Fraits:And I think that that now comes down to Nike and all these other brands to take care of us in a way that they really haven't over the years.
Matt Fraits:Before we get to the end, let's get to release of the release of the week, where I like to highlight a shoe that catches my eye.
Matt Fraits:It's not always hype.
Matt Fraits:As a matter of fact, this week, it's kind of silly.
Matt Fraits:It's just something that I want you to know about.
Matt Fraits:One of the reasons that I do release of the week every week is because people like to know what's happening.
Matt Fraits:And I also like to highlight something that I feel like is kind of off the wall.
Matt Fraits:And a lot of times it is off the wall.
Matt Fraits:So this week it is definitely off the wall.
Matt Fraits:And it is just crazy.
Matt Fraits:But if you are of a certain age, you remember how big Scooby doo was on November 27th.
Matt Fraits:Going along with the MB04 colorway of Scooby Doo.
Matt Fraits:We have the Scooby Doo Puma Suede xl.
Matt Fraits:And it basically looks like the Mystery Machine, which was the van that the whole Mystery crew drove when trying to solve all of these mysteries.
Matt Fraits:And why do I point it out?
Matt Fraits:Well, first of all, I think if you take off this particular colorway, take off this aesthetic, it actually looks really, really cool.
Matt Fraits:I love this silhouette.
Matt Fraits:I love the old chunky skater vibe and that definitely has it.
Matt Fraits:But the other thing that I love about it is it's kind of nostalgic and I think it looks really neat.
Matt Fraits:Is it something that a lot of guys are probably going to go after?
Matt Fraits:Absolutely not.
Matt Fraits:It definitely has a more feminine look to it, but I think that it speaks to a specific part of the culture and that's again, speaking to what I always talk about.
Matt Fraits:There is something for everybody and I absolutely love that.
Matt Fraits:What are your thoughts about Stockx and the idea that they don't know how to authenticate sneakers?
Matt Fraits:Let me know.
Matt Fraits:Call the Fire Footwear Hotline.
Matt Fraits:Give me your opinion.
Matt Fraits: -: Matt Fraits:I would love to hear from you and play it on this podcast.
Matt Fraits:If you want to be a part of the listener group chat that I have on Instagram at Fire Footwear Pod is the handle to find me on Instagram.
Matt Fraits:You can also Find us on YouTube.
Matt Fraits:Fire Footwear Sneakers Talk with Matt Frates.
Matt Fraits:Like subscribe.
Matt Fraits:All that good stuff.
Matt Fraits:It means a lot.
Matt Fraits:I just want to keep coming out with content and I'm so glad that I'm able to do that on a weekly basis.
Matt Fraits:Glad to be back on our regular Friday.
Matt Fraits:I hope this finds everybody well and safe and fam.
Matt Fraits:I'll see you next time.
Matt Fraits:This is Fire Footwear.
Matt Fraits:The opinions and viewpoints expressed on Fire Footwear are those of Matt Frates and his guest and not necessarily those of the Maddie Ice Media Network.
Matt Fraits:Fire Footwear is exclusively owned by Matt Fraits and is brought to you by the Maddie Network.
