Sorry this has taken me so long to post! The amazing Weed Mom, changing our world, one family at a time. Hope you enjoy everyone. To read the unedited computer generated transcript please go here.
Hey listeners I want to make a correction at 12:15 in, I say we've had recreational use in Montana since 2005 but it's medicinal we've had. Also, Heather Cabot's book is the New Chardonnay.
Follow Danielle on Instagram at @daniellesimonebrand
Find her on her website DanielleSimoneBrand.com
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by Heather Cabot.
On Marijuana under the Obama presidency.
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JackieMarie Beyer (6s):th,:
JackieMarie Beyer (51s):
She's written this book called Weed Mom: The Canna-Curious Woman's Guide to Healthier Relaxation, Happier Parenting, and Chilling TF Out. Welcome to the show Danielle Simone Brand, so nice to talk to you. This book is so awesome. Well, I mean, I just love it. You sent me this pre-ordered copy to review and it starts out with this amazing story. I mean, you really like have a wealth of research. If anybody's read Jack Here's, the Emperor's Wears No Clothes. This is like so much better, so much more in depth.
JackieMarie Beyer (1m 32s):It's, you know,:
JackieMarie Beyer (2m 16s):
And, you know, it's just been a, a pretty easy ride from there. So I'm going to be quiet. I'm gonna mute my mic literally. Tell listeners a little bit about yourself.
Danielle Simone Brand (2m 29s):
All right. All right. Well, I'm thrilled to be here with you, Jackie. My name is Danielle Simone Brand and I'm an author, a journalist. I was writing about, I found myself writing about cannabis, kind of accidentally really falling into it, just accepting assignments because it was a hot topic before I really knew much about it. And then I was also writing a lot about parenting, something that I had a lot of, you know, I had, I was in the thick of it with my little little ones at the time. They're eight and 11 so I'm still in the thick of it, but not, you know, not the same as it and those early, early years. So I think that was writing about cannabis, writing about parenting and then occasionally I would write about these two things together. You know, it'd be asked to write how to talk to kids about cannabis, or what should you consider if you're a parent who consumes.
Danielle Simone Brand (3m 15s):
Things like that. And, you know, then as I became sort of, you know, more well-versed in cannabis from an academic or, you know, just like from a journalistic perspective, I became interested in experimenting with it. And it was something that, you know, I had tried at some points in college and, you know, had some experience, but really it wasn't my thing. It wasn't my go-to, I didn't understand weed at all, you know, weed, cannabis, you know, we can call it by all sorts of names.
JackieMarie Beyer (3m 44s):
I totally get it.
Danielle Simone Brand (3m 47s):
Yeah right! So, you know, so I decided, you know, what, I'm going to experiment with legal cannabis. And what I found in the legal marketplace was so many more options that appealed to me, you know, as a mother in my late thirties at the time, you know, very busy with my professional and my personal life, you know, I didn't have time to, you know, or the inclination to, you know, take lots of bong rips and then sit on the couch forever, you know, but I needed from cannabis is something very different. I needed to sleep better, to feel better, to you know, parent at my best and perform my best in my work. And I found that cannabis actually really supported that.
Danielle Simone Brand (4m 28s):
And it was just a short jaunt from there down cannabis lane, as I like to say, and I became a full-on weed lover. So that's in a nutshell. So they're a little bit about me.
JackieMarie Beyer (4m 41s):
Well, and something I noticed when I was just visiting in New York is like how short everybody's tempers are. And like, I just like a lot of things in your book, you talked about like taking the edge off. And like, I also, like when I was there at Barnes and Noble picked up with this magazine called Women and Weed, and I feel like Kristen Bell kind of wraps it up, like says it the best, she got into it cause she was driving home from, you know, a really stressful shoot one day and instead of like, just stressing over her to do this and all this stuff, she found herself just bouncing to the music and enjoying the drive home and not like, it just like seems so much more apropos to me.
JackieMarie Beyer (5m 27s):
Like when I was in New York, like how, and I've been like super, like, I feel sorry for my husband having to put up with me home because I ended up working from home the last year. I took some podcasting jobs and virtual assistant jobs and I've been tutoring online and just doing little bits here and there. And it's just, I think him and the cats are like, when are you going back to work? And anyway, so
Danielle Simone Brand (5m 57s):
This has been a tough year for, you know, for just all that unexpected, you know, proximity and closeness with families and you're right. I think that, you know, people's tempers are fairly short. People's fuses are fairly short. I mean, studies show that, you know, surveys have shown that people's consumption of alcohol has gone way up during the pandemic, you know, as a coping mechanism, but also cannabis.
JackieMarie Beyer (6m 24s):
But when you talk about, and like, I've certainly seen in person and experiences with people, is that like, when you drink alcohol, like you're like done for the day or like, you're like, you're just like you lose. I mean, look at how many women, like, you know, either get date raped or like, you know, how many bad consequences happen in college? How many people do I know got like alcohol poisoning from partying too hard and like going to the bar and just like what it does to your body and what it does to your mind. Whereas like, you know, there's so many options with cannabis to have a much lower buzz. And just, you know, you talked about how it gave you more patience with your kids to be a better parent.
JackieMarie Beyer (7m 8s):
And I just think people don't even realize that, wow, maybe this could be a better option than, you know, the say nothing of all the points, the alcohol has at Weight Watchers.
Danielle Simone Brand (7m 22s):
Right? I mean, when you really look into it, it's pretty, it's pretty shocking how different alcohol and cannabis are physiologically and how, you know, the health consequences of drinking alcohol, even moderately for a lot of people really don't add up, you know, and for some people they can enjoy, you know, enjoy moderate alcohol use and it's great for them. And it doesn't cause them negative effects. That's fine. I have no problem with that, but I have found. And then I also, you know, for myself and with many women, I interviewed in the book that, you know, even moderate alcohol use comes along with all sorts of unwanted effects. When you mentioned the, you know, the points, the calorie piece of it and the sugar cravings, that often happened with alcohol and headaches.
Danielle Simone Brand (8m 4s):
I get headaches, I have migraines and alcohol really worsens them. You know, feeling bad the next day obviously, even again with moderate use, a lot of people just feel, you know, junk the next day after drinking and cannabis, like you were saying, it has so many more possibilities of, you know, micro-dosing or even using parts of the cannabis plant, like CBD that aren't psychoactive that aren't, you know, gonna cause you to feel altered or high in any way. You know so there's just a lot of options that we have and you're right. I mean, it helps, it helps in many ways. And I found that many women that I interviewed for the book are using it in some ways, medicinally, medically, and in some ways for recreation.
Danielle Simone Brand (8m 46s):
And then there's this like crossover between the two, this wellness. This wide space in between medical use and recreational use, which I find fascinating, you know.
JackieMarie Beyer (8m 56s):
I feel like one of the keys you said was you were experimenting in the legal marketplace and that's where a lot of these solutions are coming up. And people I feel like are really like, and a lot of these letters to the editor that I was seeing in my mom's paper was like, you know, do we want to have a shop downtown where the kids are gonna see? And it's like, hello, going to a grocery store and like, or, you know, a convenience store here, which I was so shocked that I worked in this convenience store one summer, how much cheaper it is to buy booze and alcohol in a convenience store in Montana.
JackieMarie Beyer (9m 38s):
Like usually in New York, it's the opposite. It's more high price because we're open 24/7, but in Montana it's actually the cheaper place. So tons of people were coming in on Saturday morning, Sunday morning, going to the Lake with kids, picking up all the snacks and the picnic basket treats and buying, you know, a 12 pack of beer or like I got hooked on Mike's lemonades working that summer there because I was like, what are all these Twisted Ice Teas? And like, parents are, you know, here's my kid's juice and here's the soda pop. And here's the case. Like you want to talk about a gateway drug, you know, there's like 27 signs for Budweiser between the Town Pump at the beginning of town where I live here in Montana and, you know, last bar headed out of town or the, you know, Four Corners, the last restaurant at the other end, you know, in this two mile stretch of town, how many, you know, and meanwhile, they're worried about their kids, you know, having one, maybe dispensary downtown and you know, maybe that's a better option, were learning.
JackieMarie Beyer (10m 44s):
Like we're saying like, I read this book Safer a long time ago. Why are we not? I can't remember what it's called something about like, you know, why are we, if marijuana is safer, why we driving people to drink? You know, all about like college kids losing their scholarships, losing their financial aid when it's like written by these cops in San Francisco. And like talking about the same thing you're saying that it's possibly a better alternative and on the legal market, no less that they're coming out, because I think on the non-legal market, they drove everybody into the closet. So people were coming up like the most potent possible buds they could because, you know, you wanted to grow it in the smallest space possible anyway.
JackieMarie Beyer (11m 27s):
Danielle Simone Brand (11m 27s):
That's a really interesting point about the high THC content actually. I mean, I can talk about that a bit if you're interested.
JackieMarie Beyer (11m 34s):
Yeah! Sure. And the legal market. Are you in Colorado? Is that where you're at?
Danielle Simone Brand (11m 40s):
No, I am strangely enough. So I started writing about cannabis while living in California in San Diego, and then we moved to Boise, Idaho. So I live in a non-legal state now and it's, yeah, it's kind of strange being a cannabis writer living in a non legal state, but you know, I have to say things are changing and it's, you know, an open secret that people in Idaho enjoy cannabis because we're surrounded by legal states. Oregon, Washington, Nevada, you know, now Montana, right. You're going to be legal
JackieMarie Beyer (12m 14s):had medicinal use since like:
JackieMarie Beyer (12m 57s):
So all these people that are worried, oh, people are still going to buy it from, they're not going to pay this tax. Well, it seemed like that problem, like, I don't think that's going to be a problem because I think the regulated market makes the price drop for some reason. But there wasn't a weird thing about in Idaho, like there was a big truckload full of hemp plants that got stuck.
Danielle Simone Brand (13m 25s):Yes, yes. That was in:
Danielle Simone Brand (14m 10s):
But, you know, they have a hard time differentiating that, you know, they don't necessarily know they see hemp plants that smell and look like marijuana. And so they have a hard time, you know, differentiating and knowing which shipments have been. And, but, you know, ultimately I'm pretty sure that that case got resolved, but it was, it made national news that's for sure.
JackieMarie Beyer (14m 37s):
Danielle Simone Brand (14m 38s):
One moment my dog, sorry, just one moment. My dog is being annoying, so I'll let you talk. I mute myself. Okay.
JackieMarie Beyer (14m 45s):
One thing was sinners about Danielle's book is if you have any questions about any of this stuff she goes into in depth, like this is such a encyclopedia of like, you know, what's the difference between, you know, buds and flowers and the different CBDs or the different cannabinoids and you know, just anything you could possibly want to know. Using cannabis for anxiety, using cannabis for cramps, using cannabis for stress, using cannabis for mood, using cannabis for pain, for libido, for painful sex, for wellness and fun.
JackieMarie Beyer (15m 25s):
Before you go shopping, a dispensary checklists like bedtime, the witching, like it just like, there's so much information in here. Like it is such an encyclopedia and wealth of, it's the kind of book you're going to want to own and highlight and go back to. And like, when, you know, when you have a question about this or a question about that, you know, there's somebody in your life. If it's not for you, I'll bet you, there's somebody in your life that's going to want this book. If not like every woman, you know.
Danielle Simone Brand (15m 60s):
Awww thank you. I appreciate that.
JackieMarie Beyer (16m 1s):county by county, by December:
Danielle Simone Brand (16m 44s):
Absolutely. It is a topic of national discussion, I think now. And, you know, it's only going to become more. So I think in the next few years, just today, the More Act was reintroduced in the house, which is a legalization bill. And it was passed by the House in December of last year. But, you know, it died in the Senate, but it's been reintroduced with, I think a few tweaks and, you know, it could really go a long way. But I mean, legalization is about so many things and so many, you know, writings, so many wrongs, I think, and a huge one of those, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't mention just the racism of the drug war and the fact that, you know, people of color are disproportionately affected by cannabis prohibition.
Danielle Simone Brand (17m 31s):
And, you know, it's been something that's really devastated communities of color. And, you know, the Moore Act is something that could really help. It talks about expungement for nonviolent cannabis offenses. You know, for many, many young people, especially young people of color, one cannabis offense can really change their lives and alter their ability to get a job and get a place to live. And you know, that isn't right, given that people are making money off of this, it's legal and, and, you know, so many places, I think 49%, something like that of the American population now lives in a state with recreational, not just medical, but recreational cannabis access. So anyway, things are changing quickly and they're going to keep changing, I think, you know, and, and you also mentioned Jackie a little while ago, the whole, you know, alcohol culture, that's just really normalized, right.
Danielle Simone Brand (18m 23s):
You know, parents coming to pick up their hard lemonade on the way out to the lake or whatever. And, you know, that's the thing. Alcohol is normalized in our culture as like, you know, it's a mind altering substance. We all know that, but we understand that, you know, yes, some people have a problem with it, but, you know, the majority of people can use it, you know, responsibly or somewhat responsibly, let's say, you know, but cannabis is not normalized. Absolutely. There's a stigma, there's a fear. There's just lack of education about, you know, really what it is and how to use it properly. And that is why I wrote the book because, you know, so many people don't really know, and I don't want folks trying legal cannabis and having a bad experience the first time and saying, oh, I don't like that at all.
Danielle Simone Brand (19m 7s):
Because, you know, I know it to be very complex, varied, and, you know, to really like, have so many different applications. So, you know, again, that's why I wrote this book just to be, to really introduce people like hold their hand and take them through the legal marketplace. It's so different from, you know, the quote unquote "black market" or the "legacy market" that most people, if they have any experience with cannabis, you know, previous, that was it. Yeah. So I can even go into more about THC percentages if you want, or we can move on.
JackieMarie Beyer (19m 45s):
I can talk about this, like all day long, especially like the people of color thing, you know, and the systematic racism, because we have like, you know, especially I've been listening to Hillary Clinton's podcasts and, you know, like back in the early eighties, like, you know, it was, so the drug war started out, you know, so many people arrested. You're absolutely right about the whole, you know, as a white person, and I'm right now reading Me and White supremacy. And like, you know, one thing I realized is it's huge difference between a white person's relationship with cannabis compared to a person of color's relationship with cannabis.
JackieMarie Beyer (20m 28s):
And like, you know, how many, they say way more white people smoke it or use it. But yet the majority of people in jail are people of color and like, and how it affected like their lives growing up and their school systems. And you know, how many fathers are in their homes and, you know, the prison pipeline. Like, it's just absolutely we need to correct that. I think. So I'm glad you brought that up, but do you want to talk about, like, what is it like, like if you were going to hold somebody's hand, like if their only experience has been like negative, or maybe they tried it in college really?
JackieMarie Beyer (21m 8s):
Oh my gosh, I got paranoid or I got a headache or like, how would you hold somebodies hands day? I'm walking them through the legal market.
Danielle Simone Brand (21m 18s):
Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. And I mean, they're actually people whose job it is now to do that. And I find that so fun, like, you know, their cannabis concierges and, you know, various, you know, nurses even who have gotten extra education in cannabis and help people through that. But, you know, just as a friend, what I would do, you know, and I wrote about this in the book, but I can't give individual advice because I'm not a practitioner, but, you know, generally speaking, I would ask people, well, what are you looking for? How do you want to feel? You know, because there's, like I said, a wide spectrum of experience you can have with cannabis. If someone says, I want to, you know, relax a little bit, but I don't want to feel altered or high, then I would point them towards CBD or maybe, you know, a product that has a lot of CBD and just a tiny bit of THC.
Danielle Simone Brand (22m 7s):
There's something called the entourage effect in cannabis, which means that even, you know, even something like CBD, which is not going to affect your, your perception, you know, it doesn't get you high. It it's going to be more effective if it has just a tiny bit of THC in it, not enough to get you high, but enough to sort of activate both substances. You know, so it's a plant, right and plant compounds are complex. And what we know about other plant medicines is that, you know, there can be many different compounds interacting. And so, you know, I'm definitely a believer in whole plant medicine. And do you want to, you know, not just use CBD all by itself, but anyway, so that's one direction I could point people toward.
Danielle Simone Brand (22m 49s):
Another would be, you know, to try like a, a low dose edible that has some THC in it. And I really push, you know, low and slow in my book, because like I said, I don't want people having a bad first experience with cannabis or first, you know, experience with legal cannabis. And so I talked about microdosing a lot, and that would mean, you know, for an edible, maybe even only one milligram of THC, maybe two and a half milligrams, maybe five, you know, somewhere in that range for a first time. You know, low, if you're nervous and sensitive, you know, higher like five milligrams, if you've had some previous experience and you're ready for, you know, for trying something new. But, you know, there are really incremental ways to get into cannabis now that, you know, we didn't have before.
Danielle Simone Brand (23m 35s):
Because of the legal marketplace we have, you know, not just bud or flower to smoke, but we have, you know, tinctures and pills and capsules and sprays and topicals and edibles, of course, and drinkables, and everything's precisely labeled. So we know how many milligrams of THC, if it's an edible, we know the percentage of THC, if it's, you know, an inhalable because that's not measured in milligrams, that's measured in percentage. And, you know, so we just can get so much information about what we're consuming now and just curate, I think, a better experience for ourselves. And that's something that I really appreciate about the legal marketplace is just options and, you know, information.
JackieMarie Beyer (24m 18s):
And I think that's like, that's one of the biggest keys that I love about your book. Just to me, edibles are the scariest part because, you know, that's what I've read the most. Like the things that I've read about like Colorado and Washington doing a lot of research about this is that like the biggest number of people that their emergency room visits are up because people are overdosing on these edibles. And I think that was more when they first legalized, you know, like in 10 years, a lot of things have changed, but I think when it first, like it was such a wild west when people were like eating, you know, entire cookie or something and getting like super blotto.
JackieMarie Beyer (25m 0s):when I started my podcast in:
JackieMarie Beyer (25m 44s):
Like I read this woman, Heather Cabot's book called the New Chardonnay, which is all about like, there's alcoholic drinks that like, I mean, I cannot believe what like is going on around me that I don't even, I'm not aware of. And just, yeah. The other thing I want to make sure we talk about, like, I love your Instagram feed and like how you talk about how to talk to your kids about, you know, marijuana and cannabis, because that I feel like is a big taboo. Do you want to talk about that at all?
Danielle Simone Brand (26m 19s):
Sure. Yeah. I'm happy to. Well, you know, so I included that as a chapter in the book because I felt, you know, it's really important, especially since I'm gearing the book toward moms, it's called Weed Mom. Right. You know, and so communicating, you know, responsible message about cannabis is really, really important. And the real basics of it, the broad outlines that I think are important to tell kids about cannabis and, you know, different age, appropriate ways, different levels of complexity, depending on their ages, of course, but basically it's a plant, you know, it grows in the ground. And if, you know, if someone is a cannabis enthusiast and they want to actually show their child, the plant, you know, there's nothing wrong you can't get high from touching, you know, a growing cannabis or hemp plant.
Danielle Simone Brand (27m 4s):
There's nothing dangerous about that at all. So anyway, show, show them, it's a plant. It grows in the ground and you know, some adults use it for medicine and some adults use it for recreation or, you know, to have fun, to relax, you know, whatever, or instead of drinking a beer. And, but that, it's not good for developing brains. And, you know, the science is not a hundred percent on that yet, but it is pointing toward cannabis use, especially heavy THC use before the age of 25 is just not a good idea. You know, the frontal lobe is not fully developed yet. And, you know, doing things that affect the endocannabinoid system and that's where cannabis interacts with our bodies through our endocannabinoid system.
Danielle Simone Brand (27m 46s):
It's just probably not a great idea in those times. So I definitely emphasize to my kids, this is not for you. No, it's not for you, but there are parts of the plant we could use for you. Like CBD topically is really helpful. My kids get bruises and, you know, bumps and things like that. So anyway, those are the broad strokes. And then I would say, you know, when you're old enough, or if you're, if you were friends, for instance, start talking about cannabis or start experimenting, come to me, talk to me because I will give you real information. And there's, you know, there is cannabis stuff, there are cannabis products out there that would be really harmful if you tried them early. So I want to be the, you know, I want to be there to counsel you and talk you through this process as you're coming of age and experimenting as people do.
Danielle Simone Brand (28m 34s):
So those are the broad strokes, but again, it's, you know, it does vary based on how old they are. And I have a chapter kind of detailing the message that you would, you could take a different stages.
JackieMarie Beyer (28m 46s):
And then do you want to talk about like, how you feel like, because don't, we talk a lot in the book about how you feel like a lot of ways it's made you a better parent, it's made you more patient it's made you enjoy, you know, reading the bedtime book that you've read a hundred zillion times over and over to your child and just cut healing up or enjoying bathtime more. And just like some of the more challenging parts, especially during this pandemic. And like you said, in the beginning, you know, there's a huge increase in the amount of alcohol, especially women we've consumed. Like, I've definitely one thing I found out is like, apparently I have these giant wine glasses, like I'm dying.
JackieMarie Beyer (29m 28s):
My mom shipped me back, these smaller wine glasses that I just fell in love with at her house every time we go there, she's like, what are you know, when you're going to hear it, like, she literally wanted me to go around the house and like put labels on things that, you know, she's like, I'm going to get, start getting rid of some of this stuff, you know, what do you want, what do you not want? And like, I picked up these wine glasses I really wanted, but also because they're smaller because yeah. There's a huge problem with, I think. Yeah. But yeah. Do you want to talk about like being a better parent?
Danielle Simone Brand (30m 2s):
Yeah, sure. So, you know, I mean, I tread lightly there simply because I don't want anybody, anybody thinking that, you know, I need cannabis just to handle my kids or anything like that. I don't feel that way at all. But I do feel like, you know, in the low stakes parenting moments, and I talk about that in the book, like, you know, times when our goal is just to connect, like, you know, we're reading bedtime stories or, you know, my daughter and I are gardening together cause we do that and we enjoy it. You know, in some of those moments, cannabis helps me slow down and just helps me be more present. And it's a microdose that I would use then not a heavy dose, but it's about, you know, cannabis just, it really does help me be more mindful.
Danielle Simone Brand (30m 44s):
It helps me notice my body more and be more appreciative of natural beauty. So it goes really great with gardening, really great with hiking or, you know, just walking around our neighborhood, things like that. But you know, it's about this microdose and it, you know, it shifts my perception just enough that I feel more in tune with my kids, that I feel like we have better conversations. I listen to them better because I'm not so preoccupied with my to-do list. And, you know, the stresses of being an adult, you know, and all the things that I have to think about and worry about on a daily basis, you know, and it's, but I should also say that I consciously use cannabis for that reason.
Danielle Simone Brand (31m 24s):
I tell myself I'm using cannabis right now. I'm consuming cannabis right now to shift my perception, my awareness, my mode from like work brain to family brain or work brain to, you know, cooking dinner brain or whatever it is. And so, you know, I don't think that just habitually leaning into cannabis all the time is helpful, but I do think that if we intentionally use it, it can shift our mood and help us just be more present and have more fun.
JackieMarie Beyer (31m 55s):
Yeah. I knew, I knew lots of people in college that were like way more studious than I was, that would actually get stoned when they were like writing papers. I remember being, I watched them, I'd be like, I can't believe you're doing that. And then they would like, and they got way better grades than I did on certain things. And I definitely think there's a lot to be said for like being more present, slowing down, being more focused for people. So, you know, I think as long as you're mindful of it, like you said, like consciously, intentionally, like paying attention to what you're doing, again, it could just be a better alternative for people.
JackieMarie Beyer (32m 40s):
And I'm so glad you're willing to share this with my audience. Like, I'm sure lots of them are like, wow, I had no idea. Maybe they're going to research it more and they're going to, you know, check into some other options that maybe will help them live a better life. And maybe not, I'm sure it's not for everybody. Just like, you know, my dad loved martinis. I don't want to have anything to do with a martini or some people love to, you know, take herbal tinctures and I'm, you know, well, I do, I do enjoy those ones that flower revolution woman sent me. But like, I, you know, like I just feel like different things work for different people and this should be an outlet that people should have a chance to explore.
JackieMarie Beyer (33m 26s):
And especially if the legal market is opening up all these options for people that like, again, like I said, I just can't even believe this whole world that's going on around me, that I had no idea.
Danielle Simone Brand (33m 41s):
I mean, it is evolving rapidly. Absolutely. I mean, there's a, a joke in the cannabis industry that one year equals seven years, you know, sort of like dog years in the sense that, you know, things are changing so rapidly. The, you know, regulatory environment is changing the, you know, legal environment, obviously in terms of, you know, more and more states coming on board with both medical and, you know, and recreational cannabis, you know, it's something that is evolving quite quickly. And also our understanding of cannabis, you know, from research, which was really severely restricted for so many years under prohibition, you know, now more researchers are getting access to higher quality cannabis to do their research.
Danielle Simone Brand (34m 23s):
I mean, that's a whole other story, like for a long time, anyone who wanted, any doctor or a researcher who wanted to study cannabis in the US and get FDA approval, had to source their cannabis from one farm. And I think it was a Mississippi, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's Mississippi and everyone who did that research complained that that cannabis was very poor quality. That they weren't growing, you know, quality cannabis with, you know, a good profile of cannabinoids and terpenes and, you know, phenols and all sorts of other things that cannabis has. It was just really low quality cannabis that they had to do their research on. And, you know, and the research itself was really quite limited and stunted, as I said.
Danielle Simone Brand (35m 6s):
So anyway, we're learning more now things are opening up. You know, now there's the ability to source cannabis for studies, you know, from other other places. So, you know, there's just, yeah, we're changing, we're evolving. And it's going to continue that by, I think for awhile.
JackieMarie Beyer (35m 25s):
But again, I'm going to send you guys back, cause it is such a wealth of information. I mean, you have every beyond getting, you know, things like how to deal with say, just looking I pros and cons of vapors, edibles, topicals using, what was the thing I was seeing about, like, if you over, you know, take you much like how to come down, like how things would like psychosis and different, what did you, if you get too high, I've had a woman definitely tell me about that problem.
JackieMarie Beyer (36m 8s):
Like, what do I do if I, or, or, you know, they tried it and didn't like, it, like, you've got things like take a walk or watch a comedy, go to sleep, take a shower, you know, also try aroma therapy, drink some lemon water. And then you talk about mental issues from over use, anxiety, depression, schizophrenia, bio psycho, like different things, you know, positive negatives. Like you cover everything in depth. You have really studied this plant from benefits to which, you know, considering the research and lack of research like you have.
JackieMarie Beyer (36m 49s):
And then you have like, you know, sources of places you can go to get more information, like you've great notes in your appendix. And it's just amazing how in-depth this book really is. And just what you can do to help answer the questions that like, it just feel like people have asked me, especially in the last six months in Montana, just, I don't know. I just feel like everywhere. I couldn't believe how many conversations I had in New York about it in just the last two weeks, mostly because it was, like I said, in the paper every day, crazy words like blowing up and these giant, you know, that's another thing that's always bothered me about the Washington and Colorado thing.
JackieMarie Beyer (37m 36s):
Like from an environmental perspective, I hate to see these giant grows, like from a gardener's perspective. I feel like people should be able to just grow it in their own backyard.
Danielle Simone Brand (37m 49s):
Absolutely. I mean, this is so important. So every time, you know, a new state comes on board with legalization, that is one of the first things I look at is, is home grow allowed? Because it's fundamental to me, you know, I mean, just from a purely philosophical point of view, like this is a plant that grows in the ground. Anyone should be able to grow it for their own, you know, medicinal use or, you know, a recreational use if they so choose to do so responsibly. And yes, there, it varies widely. There are states that allow homegrown, but don't allow sales yet. Vermont, for instance, it's one of those DC, you know, the District of Columbia is that way so far, but you know, retail frameworks are going to be set up there eventually.
JackieMarie Beyer (38m 31s):
And we're like that, like, you can possess an ounce, but where do you get that ounce? It's like, can you buy it? Can you sell it? You can't sell it. You know, if you can't grow your own, I think in Montana, at least we can grow own. But like I'm saying in New York, you can't even grow for medicinal use, I guess? Like, it's just seems crazy to me. And like, I'm so curious, like I was reading this one article, I was like asking my brother, I'm like, wait, they're saying that you can just buy these gummies and hop on the long island railroad and like eat a gummy or two on your way home. Like, what's that all about? And he was like, I don't know. And I was like, every, like I was just so curious about all these different things that I, again, like I said, I knew nothing about.
JackieMarie Beyer (39m 18s):
I was so surprised.
Danielle Simone Brand (39m 19s):
Yeah. And there are so many gray areas right now. You alluded to it, you know, someone could pick up a, you know, a package of gummies and take it on the way home. You know, we don't really have a total framework for what is, you know, like how we're using cannabis, how we're consuming, you know, some places are going to have some consumption lounges where it's okay to consume onsite. In some states, you know, you may only consume cannabis in places where you can smoke. And that would mean like basically your own home or your own property, you know? So it's, yeah, it depends. It varies. It's a very interesting moment in cannabis for all of those reasons.
JackieMarie Beyer (39m 58s):
Like that was another thing I read about it Maine you have to be over 21 to be around the plants. And if you, if you're growing the plants, I mean, like people can't be able to see it from the road. Like there were all these crazy rules and the permit prices for like, you know, between like five and $15,000. Like, that's the only thing that drives me crazy in Montana, like to grow hemp, it's like a $400. I was all excited, like I'm gonna grow hemp seeds last spring. And I like is after I talked to that Tara Caton. And then I was like, what, $400 for a permit plus price per plant. And just, there were so many obstacles.
JackieMarie Beyer (40m 39s):
Like I was like, I, you know, I still haven't grown a hemp plant because to say nothing of there's four Canadian companies, I think you can even buy the seeds from. Like, you can't even buy hemp seeds in Montana or from like your, you know, you can't go to Johnny's and say, I want some hemp seeds to grow for the protein oil, which is supposed to be so good for our brains or for animal feed. You know, like, what are the book of, I've been reading about the horrors of, you know, corn and soybean for animal feed, oh, I'm reading Jane Fonda's book. What can we do?
JackieMarie Beyer (41m 19s):
And how, you know, they encourage people to give up meat because you know, the feed for the consumption of meat industry, like they're cutting down the rainforest to grow the corn and the soybeans to feed the cows, to feed the humans. Like maybe I could go back to eating meat. One of the reasons I haven't eaten meat in so long is because, and I used to love it, like steak was like my favorite dinner for my birthday. London broil was, you know, how much water goes into growing the food to feed the cow to, you know, is it's just so bad for the environment. And then here hemp is supposed to be good for the animals and a good food source and in a good, a good covercrop.
JackieMarie Beyer (42m 8s):
I don't know.
Danielle Simone Brand (42m 10s):
Absolutely. I mean, so hemp is, you know, something that has the potential to really help us in an environment like on a big scale environmentally, I think, you know, it's a bio accumulator, so it can actually clean soils, you know, cleanse them.
JackieMarie Beyer (42m 24s):
Yeah take the toxins of the soil.
Danielle Simone Brand (42m 25s):
But I mean, but that is a reason that it's really important to source, If you're going to consume some you want to get it from clean sources, right. To get it from, you know, organic sources, because you don't want to consume all of those, you know, heavy metals that have been absorbed by the plant. So you want, you definitely want clean, clean cannabis, but, you know, as an industrial crop, hemp can help, you know, can help clean soils. It can help, you know, it can provide a source for, as you mentioned, for animal feed, for bio-plastics, for textiles, for, you know, all kinds of industrial uses there's a potential to use hemp for. And, you know, you mentioned the emperor wears no clothes or improve has no clothes by Jack Herrer a while ago.
Danielle Simone Brand (43m 8s):
And, you know, he was saying that way back then he was saying, you know, there's so many ways we can use this plant that would be better for the environment than using timber, or then, you know, like the monoculture of corn and soy
JackieMarie Beyer (43m 21s):
Toxic chemical our clothes are made out of.
Danielle Simone Brand (43m 24s):
JackieMarie Beyer (43m 24s):g to sell a hemp dog color in:
JackieMarie Beyer (44m 17s):
And everybody's, you know, and it's just am so frustrated sometimes.
Danielle Simone Brand (44m 21s):
JackieMarie Beyer (44m 21s):
Oh yeah. And my mom's town also, they have this huge on Long Island they have a huge water problem. And what you were saying about it absorbs all the toxins. Cause somebody was talking about wanting to grow their own in New York. And my husband was saying, well, yeah, well, remember it sucks up those toxins. So they either want to make sure the water that they're using or just be careful once they start growing on Long Island, because we've been _____ so much and researching about my mom's water, like boiling her water and filtering her water cause I guess they have a huge water problem.
Danielle Simone Brand (44m 58s):
Huh. Oh, that's too bad. Yeah. I mean, you know, the environmental, you know, discussion around cannabis is so interesting right now. And, and I think that that's another great argument for legalization is the environmental factor. So prohibition, years and years of cannabis being totally illegal, drove it, you know, underground, so to speak but that really meant, you know, indoors. Right. And so cannabis was grown indoors largely in the U S for years. And, you know, for decades, I mean, you know, it was growing outdoors in Northern California for sure. But you know, many of the really intensive and big grows where we're indoor and it's so energy intensive to grow cannabis that way.
JackieMarie Beyer (45m 41s):
YES! YES! YES!
Danielle Simone Brand (45m 42s):
And you know, all, you know, all kinds of inputs of nutrients, all kinds of inputs of, you know, water, light fans, you know, ozone various, you know, it's a really, almost industrial operation where as, you know, growing outdoors, which we call sungrown, sungrown cannabis, it's, you know, so much better for the environment. So fewer resources are involved in cultivating it and, you know, provides food for pollinators and it just, you know, can become part healthy part of an ecosystem.
JackieMarie Beyer (46m 13s):early two thousands or early:
JackieMarie Beyer (46m 57s):
I can't remember when, but I was reading in this magazine. They have like some sun-grown certification label also that they're trying to get for organic cannabis going in California because of exactly what you're saying. Sun-grown it's sun and or certification or something because yeah. I was trying to get up a Montana, organic cannabis association started in January cause I was getting so many phone calls about it. And like that's something we're really passionate about is like seeing, cause I had talked to Bob Quinn who was one of the Montana organic association.
JackieMarie Beyer (47m 38s):
And he said back in the seventies, eighties, when he's one of the big, he's a big organic farmer, he goes to this thing called Kamut wheat, which is a special type of wheat over in the east side. And they were talking about how, when they first wanted to get organic certification going, because there wasn't any, and when they didn't have an organic certification, it was kind of like the wild west of organics. And people were saying making all these claims, oh, this is organic. Oh, this isn't. And they were like, well, we want to make sure people are following a certain set of procedures. So then when this Montana legalized recreational use, I, it was like, oh, we should start on Montana organic cannabis. I reached out to Bob and he was like, oh, well you should reach out to the Montana organic association, see if there's other people interested, you know, write a letter, have them send it to their members.
JackieMarie Beyer (48m 29s):
I never got the letter written, but I saw this post on Facebook. And I was like, oh, Hey, can you put a post on Facebook seeing if anybody's interested in starting a Montana organic cannabis association with me? And the Montana organic association wrote back and they were like, well, since it's not legal for banking and it's not legal for this and our governor doesn't support it, we're staying out of it and we don't want to have anything to do with it. And no, we will not put a post up on our page asking if people want to start a Montana Organic Cannabis Association. They did give me one person's name and it can I quit, but that person has not gone back to me. So that's like, that's a lot of people's attitude too. Like we don't want to have anything to do with it.
JackieMarie Beyer (49m 12s):
There's this whole big banking thing, which just I guess. Like, and then there's always the case of the DEA. Like, wasn't that the big problem with Obama? Like he said, oh, we're going to back off and Eric Holder and they backed off. And then they did a whole role reversal. And like, no, now we are going to go back to prosecuting people. Like, it's just try. I'm just really frustrated with all the like one minute you're, legal under state law, but you're not really legal under federal law. And I don't remember, like there was a case where like a native American group that was like growing hemp and then the, I even Googled it the other day to show my mom.
JackieMarie Beyer (49m 53s):And it's like in:
Danielle Simone Brand (50m 32s):
Yeah. You know, I mean, we're, we're in a place culturally where more and more people I think are, you know, starting to speak up and starting to become advocates, but you're right. There's in the mainstream, there's still quite a reluctance, you know, to touch cannabis. And you know, some of that is, I mean, a huge part of that is obviously the stigmas of, you know, long-time prohibition and really the anti cannabis propaganda. It wasn't just, you know, casual stigma, but, you know, concerted anti-cannabis propaganda, that was just part of our culture for a long time, you know? And then of course, obviously the, the federal illegality and the DEA's role, and, you know, largely the federal government has, you know, allowed states to make up, you know, make their policy and not gotten, you know, too involved.
Danielle Simone Brand (51m 19s):tion, California legalized in:
Danielle Simone Brand (52m 1s):
So that banks would be able to do business with cannabis growers and processors and operators. And there could just be a lot more freedom in the industry. So, you know, it's going to be really interesting to see what happens first. Are we going to get the Safe act? Are we going to get the More act? Are we going to get anything? My fingers across?
JackieMarie Beyer (52m 25s):
So is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to mention today?
Danielle Simone Brand (52m 35s):
Let's see. Well, since this is a gardening part podcast, I can very briefly tell my funny, attempted homestead story if you want?
JackieMarie Beyer (52m 51s):
Oh yeah! Perfect!
Danielle Simone Brand (52m 51s):
Okay. So this was about nine years ago. Yeah. About nine years ago, my husband and I left Washington DC with our two-year-old son and I was pregnant with my daughter at the time. And along with my dad, we bought 36 acres in Northern Colorado at 7,000 feet with a little house on it. And a lot of undeveloped land
JackieMarie Beyer (53m 17s):
My husband was born in Colorado.
Danielle Simone Brand (53m 18s):
Oh, okay, cool. Yeah. So this was near Loveland, Colorado, but not really near, I wouldn't say near anything. It was, you know, at least 45 minutes to the closest gas station, you know, up this really twisty mountain road. And we had all these big dreams. We were like, we are going to, you know, grow all our own food and we're going to have all the animals and be, you know, mostly self-sufficient and just go down the mountain once a week for, you know, a few supplies and we're going to.
JackieMarie Beyer (53m 43s):
So did you buy it sight unseen.
Danielle Simone Brand (53m 44s):
We had seen it, but, you know, we had never lived in Colorado. We didn't know anything about 7,000 feet gardening. And to be honest, we didn't know anything about gardening at all. My dad grew up in Indiana, in rural Southern Indiana and he grew up, you know, with a subsistence, you know, plot behind his house that he and his siblings tended. So my dad absolutely had some experience, but that was like 50 years previous. And I had never even grown a tomato on the balcony.
JackieMarie Beyer (54m 19s):
And a different type from 7,000 feet in the Rocky Mountains.
Danielle Simone Brand (54m 24s):
In the Rocky Mountains. So, you know, bad idea, obviously it didn't work out. We, you know, we went all in, but you know, we failed pretty miserably and oh, you know, also realized that we needed a community around us if we were going to be successful at that. And there was really not a community yet where we were of anyone trying to do something similar. Plus, you know, having a two year old and being pregnant, wasn't really that convenient for, you know, getting around and getting down to the hospital. But, you know, it was born out of this truly idealistic desire to, you know, to teach my kids how to be human. You know, I mean, I really think, I truly feel connected to the earth as a human being.
Danielle Simone Brand (55m 12s):
And I feel that, you know, to learn the skills of growing and cultivating and caring for the land and growing much of your own food, I feel like that's really important to me and intrinsic in some ways, due to being human. And I wanted to teach my kids that, and I wanted them to have a non-commercial life, but I learned in that process, that baby steps are good, you know, incrementally build the skills, you know, I can still get there one day. And right now I am really loving the garden. Just the simple boxes that my daughter and I have outside and the things that we can grow in our little spot here in Boise.
Danielle Simone Brand (55m 58s):
So yeah, that's, that's my story. Big, big, try, big fail. Learned a lot.
JackieMarie Beyer (56m 2s):
I have a lot of listeners in Boise, I guess you guys are growing like crazy. You're like one of the top, like, right, like cities growing in the United States.
Danielle Simone Brand (56m 13s):
Yeah. You know, I mean, this is only our second summer here. This will be our second summer here. And last summer was unusual as everyone knows. So, you know, I'm still learning a lot and I am still absolutely a beginner, but I think that there are lots of opportunities to grow here and the things that did really well for us last year, really our peppers and herbs and raspberries, and this year so far, our kale is doing amazing. And our snap peas are growing up nice and happy. It's just a really small, you know, little project we have going, but I get a lot of enjoyment from it.
JackieMarie Beyer (56m 58s):
What was your very first gardening experience? Like, was it that homestead like, like who were you with? What what did you grow? Were you a kid or were you an adult?
Danielle Simone Brand (57m 11s):
You know, besides houseplants, it was that homesteading experience, you know, and I think that I had a real thirst for it. I had a real thirst it, but it always lived in cities where, you know, apartment living was the norm. And, you know, I just hadn't had the chance to cultivate those skills. And I just, I truly wanted it so badly that I said, I'm going to go all in all at once, instead of learn how to grow a few tomatoes on the balcony first. Right. That would have been smart.
JackieMarie Beyer (57m 42s):
Well, you are not the first person to do that for sure.
Danielle Simone Brand (57m 45s):
I know. I know. And honestly, that's what got me started on my, you know, on my writing journey is I blogged while we were up there and blogged about our daily struggles a bit, and then decided to write a memoir about that fail, that failed experience. I called it a good, good life. And it was, I wrote a full length memoir, tried to get it published, sent out tons of queries to agents and in the process of, of failing at homesteading and then failing to publish my memoir about homesteading. I learned the craft of writing, you know, as a journalist and as a narrative story-teller.
Danielle Simone Brand (58m 25s):
So that's kind of what got me started as a freelancer and led to this book. So circuitous path, but I guess that's how life is sometimes.
JackieMarie Beyer (58m 40s):
Well, as Steve Jobs said, you never can connect the dots until the end of the story. So, Yeah, I can't remember how I was thinking, but it's like, it's easier to connect the dots at the end than it is looking forward. So I don't know. I'm always saying that, cause my family is always like your all over the place and you start this project and you don't, and that to me, I can see it. And I always feel like, cause I'm like a watercolor artist and I, you know, one of the keys to watercolors is like letting a layer dry. If you could let it dry for 24 hours, you know, great. If you let it dry for a week, even better, you know, putting things down, let them marinate, let them sit and then go back to them.
JackieMarie Beyer (59m 22s):ing to be more of a finisher.:
JackieMarie Beyer (1h 0m 6s):
And you should self publish it. Well, for one thing with children's books, I don't feel like Amazon, like, I I'm good with the Amazon self publishing some stuff, but I don't think their quality of children's books they're there yet. I don't think they, and then my other problem is everything I paint seems to be horizontal and they don't have any horizontal options. I don't know. And just, I'm dreaming of getting a real publisher someday. Like I really want to win a Caldicott medal for best artist. And, and I feel like I will get there. And I just think, you know, every step like I've been taking last summer, I went to ghostwriter school and I am taking a copywriting course right now to become a better writer so I can write better blog posts.
JackieMarie Beyer (1h 0m 57s):
And so I can write better emails. And I'm working on this book called rockstar millennial about the guests that I've interviewed that are millennials, and it's just falling so flat. Like I've written, I think I have the first 31 pages of the first few sample chapters. And I just, I can't bring them we to submit them to the publisher. So you just, they just don't like when they interviewed the people, like the passion comes and when I talk about them, but then when I read it, so I want to give you a ton of kudos for writing your memoir and finishing it and submitting it. And you know, it might not have been the right time and the right place.
JackieMarie Beyer (1h 1m 37s):
And maybe now that you have Weed Mom out, like how did you end up getting an agent for? And like, how did this come about?
Danielle Simone Brand (1h 1m 47s):
Well, this came about after, you know, several years of freelance writing and writing about cannabis and about parenting. And so developing, you know, my knowledge base on these things, you know, and yeah, because I had enough publications and I had a strong book proposal, I submitted to a bunch of agents and I got, yeah, I got some offers and ended up signing with somebody. But that being said, you know, even with an agent, I was not able to get a big five publisher to publish my book. You know, the publishing industry is very consolidated in the US and you know, the big five or, you know, Penguin, Random House and Simon and Schuster, you know, the big ones like that with Mellon, I published with an indie and it's distributed by one of the major publishers.
Danielle Simone Brand (1h 2m 32s):ow, even, even today, even in:
Danielle Simone Brand (1h 3m 15s):
The publishing industry is so competitive. It is so competitive that if they accept your stuff, it's only if it's your best finished top quality stuff. And then if they want you to change it, they'll tell you to change it. So that's my advice. When I'm looking for an agent.
JackieMarie Beyer (1h 3m 32s):
I have heard that I talked to you this one woman, and she's like, had to submit it to, what'd she do? she had to like, have it edited it, like she paid to have it edited. Then she submitted the agent took it on, but then they made her do it to an editor again. And then finally they submitted it to a publishing house and got the contract. It's like a book that's coming out in two years, but like, yeah, she had to pay personally to have it edited. And like I have heard those things. So, yeah. Anyway, congratulations on everything.
JackieMarie Beyer (1h 4m 13s):
Everybody you want to get a copy of Weed Mom: The Canna-Curious Woman's Guide to Healthier Relaxation, Happier Parenting, and Chilling TF Out. Get one for you. Get one for a friend, get one for a mother. Write a review post on Instagram or Amazon, or your favorite book app or wherever. And just, do you have like website or where do you tell people to go to get ahold of you to follow you on Instagram? Or where do you tell people to go?
Danielle Simone Brand (1h 4m 42s):
Yeah. Yeah. I do have a website. It's Danielle Simone Brand my name.com, but also on Instagram is really where I'm the most active, like he said, and that's just at Danielle Simone Brand. And actually I wanted to add one thing if I may, Jackie, for you, which is that, you know, I really believe that we're in a moment in the cannabis industry where consumers get to have a big say in shaping what the future looks like. And, you know, if you care about organic gardening and small gardening and regenerative gardening and all that, you can make good decisions when you choose to consume cannabis. When you choose to buy it from a dispensary and actually look into the brands that you're buying and look into, how are they growing their cannabis and you know, how, what kind of operation is it?
Danielle Simone Brand (1h 5m 29s):
And, you know, other things you might care about, like how did they treat their employees? You know, just like you want to just like you care about where your food comes from and how you know, that was grown and how the people who grew it were treated the same applies to cannabis. It's an agricultural product, you know, at its root. And so we have this ability to shape cannabis, you know, toward that small and craft and organic and regenerative space, instead of that big corporate indoor grown heavy, intensive, you know, energy intensive of cannabis. So that's just my hope that people who care about the environment and care about gardening will want to look into that and make some informed decisions about the cannabis they choose to consume.
Danielle Simone Brand (1h 6m 15s):
And I'll step off my soap box now.
JackieMarie Beyer (1h 6m 18s):
That was perfect. Thank you so much for sharing with us today, Danielle, and just good luck with everything and just for being brave and speaking out and talking about this important topic that really, I think touches more of us than we know. And just, I learned a lot today talking with you and I learned a ton reading your book, and I know that I'm going to go back and cause it is like an encyclopedia and as people ask me questions and as I learn more and as our world changes, so thank you so much for putting it out there and sharing and your Instagram following you on Instagram.
JackieMarie Beyer (1h 6m 58s):
It's just fun. And I like to do, and thanks for everything.
Danielle Simone Brand (1h 7m 1s):
Well, thank you so much. I had so much fun being on your show. Thank you for what you're doing, educating people about, you know, growing this way.
JackieMarie Beyer (1h 7m 12s):
Oh, well, thanks. All right. Well, have a great day.
3 (1h 7m 17s):
Get your copy of the Organic Oasis Guidebook available today from Amazon, it's got 12 lessons designed to help you create your own organic Oasis. It starts with healthy soil. It talks about building an earth handling landscape. It helps you understand the difference between annuals and perennials and how to bring in beneficial insects. It talks about fruit trees and just all the lessons that I've learned on my podcast mixed with what Mike and I have done here. Okay, well, Mike has done here at Mike's screen garden and just, I hope that it will help you on your garden journey to create, like I said, your own organic Oasis, where you can have healthy food and enjoy, you know, a very special place.
3 (1h 8m 8s):
And most of all, it's good for mother earth. Do you know someone who would benefit from the organic Gardiner podcast? If you like, what you hear? We'd love it. If you'd share the organic gardener podcast with a friend. Thanks again for listening
0 (1h 8m 16s):
And remember grow local.