Today’s episode is a publication day special with Ellie Levenson, author of Room 706. I first read this book back in October and I haven’t stopped talking about it since. Room 706.

In this episode, Ellie and I dive into the world of Room 706: her inspiration, her writing process, and how she crafted such a tightly paced and explosive story. And because that ending deserves its own space, we’ve recorded a separate bonus episode dedicated entirely to unpacking it.

Of course, no episode of Best Book Forward would be complete without book recommendations, so here they are, with links to buy:

📚 By Ellie Levenson

1. Room 706

✨ Books Mentioned

1. The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrow by John Koenig
2. Fear of Flying by Erica Jong
3. The Magic Faraway Tree by Enid Bylton
4. Thursday's Child by Noel Streatfield
5. Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas
6. The Time Traveller's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger
7. The Trick to Time by Kit de Waal

If you’ve finished Room 706 and are ready to dive deeper into that unforgettable ending, make sure you check out the bonus episode. A word of warning: it’s packed with spoilers, so if you haven’t read the book yet, you might want to wait until you have.

I’ll be back next week with another author conversation, and I’d love for you to join me for that too.

In the meantime, if you enjoyed today’s episode, please consider subscribing, rating, and reviewing Best Book Forward, and don’t forget to spread the word. Your support really helps new listeners discover the show.

See you next week, and happy listening.

Listen & Subscribe Now:

https://best-book-forward.captivate.fm/listen

To stay in touch with Best Book Forward news please follow me on Instagram @bestbookforward or visit my website: https://bestbookforward.org/

Welcome back to Best Book Forward, the podcast where I talk to authors about the books that have shaped their lives.

It's basically like a bookish version of Desert Island Discs.

My guest today, Ellie Levinson, joins me as her incredible debut, Room 706, publishes in the UK.

It is an explosive, tightly paced read that takes us inside the hotel room of a couple who find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And it's already making waves.

2025 Booker Judge Sarah Jessica Parker said of room 706.

It's as tender as it is surprising.

A gripping interrogation of womanhood.

I tore through this book back in October, so I was delighted to be able to sit down with Ellie and have a chat about it.

Room 706 is described as a novel with an ending that has to be talked about.

And I couldn't agree more.

So we're actually doing things a little differently today.

In this episode, you'll hear Ellie and I chat about Room 706, her inspiration, her writing life, and of course, the five books that have shaped her life.

But we've also recorded a bonus episode where we get to talk about that ending.

So once you've read the book, do be sure to go and check out that episode as well.

You won't want to miss it.

But for now, let's get started and give Ellie a warm welcome to the show.

Ellie, welcome.

And thank you so much for joining me on Best Book Forward today.

I'm so excited to have you here.

I'm buzzing about your book.

I mean, I'm probably going to be your very own personal stalker on this one because I'm obsessed with it.

One of the problems of being an early reader is so we're recording this in October and it comes out in January when this episode comes out as well.

But there's nobody for me to talk about it.

So I'm glad I get to debrief with you today.

What could be better?

Oh, well, thank you so much for having me.

That's so nice.

Do you want to start then by giving everyone a flavour of what room 706 is all about?

Okay, so room 706 is about Kate and James.

They're happily married, but not to each other, and they meet every few months to have sex in hotels.

It's kind of.

People always laugh at this, but I see it as a form of me time.

So, you know, she could have been buying shoes or having a massage, but she meets her lover and then one day when they finish doing what lovers do in hotels, they turn on the telly, they look at their phone and they realize that the hotel has been taken over by terrorists.

So I know you shouldn't kind of describe your own work by saying what it's not, but it's not.

It's not Die Hard.

I love Die Hard.

It's not Die Hard, but they stay in the room and it's very much about, well, how do you tell your spouse that you are in a bit of a pickle and you're not going to be home to pick the children up from school?

And what happens when you're in the room with somebody that you might like as a lover but you don't actually like as a person?

I thought it was quite interesting to, you know, the two very different roles in life.

It's tense on many levels on that sort of front, isn't it?

Because obviously you've got the.

What is she going to tell her husband?

What is going to happen to her and what is she doing with him as well?

It's like, yeah, how are they going to spend this time together?

So it's brilliant.

It is.

It's not Die Hard, as you say, but it is explosive to start.

It's very tense, it's exciting, it's stressful, and it is brilliant.

I loved reading your author's note about where this all came from.

So could you share some of the story with us of, you know, how room 706 came about?

Yeah, sure.

It kind of brings together loads of my obsessions.

So even before I had my own family, I was always really interested.

For example, on 9 11, I thought the notes of the people who knew they were going to die and kind of the last phone calls to their families or the people on the plane over the field in Pennsylvania, they kind of wrote notes to their families and it nearly always just boiled down to I love you, which I thought, you know, was very, very moving, very lovely.

And so I was always interested in that.

And then there was that case.

I should have looked up the year and kind of committed it to memory, but at some point there was a case where a theater in, I think in Moscow, but certainly somewhere in Russia where terrorists took over.

I think it might have been the Bolshoi Ballet, but again, I'm a bit lack some details.

Took over the theater and people were stuck in the theater during a siege situation.

And I was really interested in, you know, what if those people had gone to the theater with like a lover rather than their partner?

You know, what a horrible way to get caught.

As well as a Horrible situation.

You know, the byproduct is also getting caught out.

So I was already really interested in that.

And then when I had my own family, there was a stage, a short period when I had three children under five.

And I was just so tired as.

Which isn't unique to me.

I think all parents are very tired.

I just wanted to go to a hotel by myself and shut the door and.

Because, you know, even if you manage to secure an hour or two at home alone, there's always, you know, washing to be done and stuff.

I just wanted to be in a hotel.

And my husband said to me, you know what, like, with a lover?

And I was like, God, no.

Last, last thing on my mind.

You know, I just want to be by myself.

And it occurred to me that it was almost more acceptable to society the idea that a woman might want to go to a hotel with a lover and by herself.

And the idea of a woman or a mother just wanting to be alone for a bit was kind of so hard for people to get their head around.

But it was all I wanted.

So all of these ideas came together, basically.

That's so interesting.

We're going to come back to that sort of hotel room thing.

But that was so interesting.

Isn't it like you've just popped an idea in my head.

I just thought, actually, and I didn't think of it until you said this.

It's kind of like the Coldplay couple.

Exactly.

You're saying about the theaters.

I mean, it's not the same thing.

It's not life threatening, but it's life changing.

Yeah.

You just like all the ways to get caught and it's just a kind of the unexpected way.

And, you know, you read stories in magazines or whatever, whatever of how people, you know, find receipts or, you know, flowers for the lover or whatever people do.

But actually it's the unexpected that you can't plan for precisely because it is unexpected.

Yeah.

And they.

I mean, they could have gone on for years, Kate and James, didn't they, without anybody ever knowing.

Because they're both happily married, just not to each other, as you say.

And it's, you know, they are discreet and sort of.

And I think it's become a habit for them as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's move on to talk about.

We talked about this briefly before.

The book opens with a dictionary definition, and it comes from the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows, which is such a great title, isn't it?

I love it.

I'm gonna have to get that book.

And the word is sonder, which I love.

And as I said to you, I think I'm somebody who either sonders or I'm sondering.

I don't know how you'd use it in a sentence, but I love it.

When did you come across this word?

And, you know, when did you sort of realize that it fits in with the book and, you know, how does it sort of play into it?

I mean, I think it was an Internet project before it was a book, although it is a book now by John Koenig, who's.

I don't know how you would describe him or how he'd describe himself.

He's like an American, I guess, like almost a word artist.

He came up with these.

These words that don't exist in English, but for concepts that you can explain.

And I think one just appeared in my social media as a meme at some point.

I couldn't even tell you when.

I don't even know if it was before I started writing the book or in the middle.

But I loved the word.

I thought it was such a lovely word.

It means kind of the realization that you're just a bit part in everybody else's life.

And, you know, so I always thought it was interesting when you're kind of on the bus or walking down the street.

You know, everybody you come across has got a life as complex as yours, but you don't either know about it or care about it, really.

Yeah.

And then at some point while writing the book, it didn't have a name at all.

You know, I just kind of saved it as the look on my computer.

And then it just occurred to me like, oh, sonder is such a perfect word.

And I. I submitted it to my agent as Hotel Sonder.

Oh.

But then we.

So I think she was absolutely right that if you have to explain a title, then it doesn't work.

So I think she was absolutely right to rename it for submission, and I completely bought into that.

But also, after I'd submitted the book, I was walking down the street in Kensington and I saw a new hotel called so Sonder.

And then I was in Broad Stairs in Kent, and there's a kind of bar or restaurant or something called Sonder.

And clearly everybody has the same influences as me and sees the same memes as me.

So it's become like the word now.

So I'm quite pleased we didn't use it in the title, but I. I think it's quite zeitgeisty as well.

Yeah, I love the title, though.

And I actually it's the final cover.

I've got the proof.

Is the final cover the same?

Yeah, yeah.

It's so striking and it's definitely grab you to sort of find out what it's all about.

Yeah, no, I love that.

That's brilliant.

Okay, we're gonna talk a bit about the format of the book.

So it's told in three timelines.

So we have Kate and James in this room and then we go back to where Kate meets her lovely husband Vic and how they sort of fall in love and then also where she meets James and how that all sort of comes about.

You weave them together brilliantly and it sort of really helps sort of, you know, understand everyone story.

So how did you approach.

Were there always going to be those three timelines or so the.

Yeah.

Is to acknowledge your question rather than they weren't.

The answer is no.

Basically.

I really think she, she wouldn't say this because she's very self effacing, but my agent, Felicity Blunt, should probably be my co author because when I submitted it, there weren't three timelines.

So Kate would walk around the hotel room and it would, you know, almost pristine.

Like she'd pick something up and go, ah, this biscuit reminds me of this thing in my life, only it kept happening again and again.

And somehow my agent managed to see through this when she read the book and signed me and kind of realized what the book could become.

So the first thing we did was this kind of major structural edit where she said, look, it really needs to be separate timelines.

And of course, as soon as she said it, I realized she was absolutely correct.

And.

It was really just a case of kind of chopping around chapters and changing a few tenses.

It wasn't that difficult to do.

And I mean, nearly all the kind of big changes to the book seem so obvious once you start doing them.

But it was down to Felicity really, for seeing how to do it.

So I'm very grateful.

That's.

I always think when people say that when they change something that seems obvious.

And it's like, I mean, as a reader, I can't spot anything in there that's sort of jarring or whatever.

So you've obviously come to the right sort of story by making those changes because it's just effortless to.

I mean, I flew.

Thank you.

I remember actually I was reading on a day when I had stuff to do and I canceled something.

Oh my goodness.

Wow.

So I was like, yeah, I'm not doing that.

I've got to finish this.

I can't leave it.

I'm worried now that I'm going to kind of impact people's lives detrimentally.

Like they won't meet their own partner or something because you've canceled something.

But you know what?

Aren't we all entitled to that little break to read a good book?

I say do it.

I loved the pace that you move between the timelines as well.

I found some of it quite stressful.

You know, when you're in the room and you're not knowing what's happening.

But then when you'd go back, it's sort of like gave me permission, sort of come off high alert for a bit and sort of understand the characters.

So how was it for you during that pacing?

And did you find any of the timelines more challenging to write than the others or different storylines than that?

Don't think I did because it was all kind of one mishmash to start with.

So I'd only realize that it was the three timelines once we did the structural edit to put them in.

And so everything was already there.

I mean, there were times when I was writing it when I was a bit worried, you know, is it boring?

Because basically nothing happens.

And the face you just made when I said that is kind of what my agent made when I said that.

I literally cannot think of a sentence in there.

Like, there's nothing.

I had in mind the whole time.

I don't know if you remember there was a real life case in Australia.

But it was made into a film called Open Water, which is basically the two of them in the water for hours on end.

The film isn't hours, but, you know, the story is ours.

But the film felt like hours.

And I was like.

Well, I really liked.

I mean, I didn't like the ideas of, you know, the stuff of nightmares.

But in terms of a film rather than real life, I really liked the idea and thought it was really interesting, but I didn't want it to just be like two people bobbing around in the water.

I needed stuff to happen.

Did you ever consider.

Because when I picked up, I wasn't sure as I was reading it whether it was going to be like a jeweled sort of point of view.

Did you ever consider different?

Like, either James or.

I don't Know who else?

No, I didn't actually.

Or maybe I considered it and dismissed it, but I never kind of.

I was never going to do it because I really felt it was the women's story story.

It was Kate's story.

And I felt her lover really is a bit of a bit part.

He's.

He's just there to facilitate us telling her story.

And that was, that was deliberate because a lot of the idea came from.

You know, I love women's magazines, absolutely adore them and always have.

But so many stories about affairs are like, how do you get the man to leave his wife?

Or you read stories about the kind of men saying, you know, well, I'll leave her when the kids have left home or whatever.

And I was just thinking, well, what would happen if a woman was in an affair and she didn't actively.

Didn't want them to leave their wife?

You almost wouldn't be interested in him as a person because he wouldn't want to give him any ideas that you were in it for anything other than kind of pleasure.

Yeah.

So I loved.

I saw that in your author's note saying about flipping the idea.

And I start thinking about it.

That's so clever because it's.

You do sort of think of it in a.

You know, I tend to see things as they are.

I think I'm not sort of of that critical, but it's.

It's an interesting idea to flip it on its head and sort of see it.

So.

And it works.

Brilliant.

So I guess in a way it was almost that kind of.

I suppose Erica Jongam fear of flying was the kind of flipping on its head and kind of, if I'm allowed to be crude on here, like kind of women like men.

And so I kind of had that in mind a bit as well.

Like, what if Kate is kind of having an affair like a man?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's talk about Kate then, because she is a really interesting character.

She is complex, she's flawed, and I think she's quite relatable as well.

And I say that in that you may not agree with what she does and you may not like some of the things that she says, but you can certainly understand.

Her as the woman and the struggle she's facing, which I thought you put across brilliantly.

So where did Kate come from?

Does she come to you fully formed or did she sort of tell her own story to you?

How did it all work from her point of view?

This is such good questions.

They're really making me think.

It'S very.

Early as well, isn't it?

Have you had your coffee?

I've had one.

I didn't want to be too wired.

Yeah, I think, I don't know that she came fully formed, but she kind of came as I typed.

I think I wanted her to be every woman.

So I mean, one of the things is we don't describe her.

We don't know what she looks like physically at all on purpose because I wanted her to that she could be absolutely anyone.

And so in that respect, physically there wasn't anything to form.

But I think, no, I think she just kind of came as I typed.

That's such a bad answer.

I need to work on that answer for future.

No, you don't.

I, I mean, I love that because I think it's like, you know.

That'S sort of how we learn about her as the reader as well.

So it sort of makes sense to know that, you know, she's sort of, you know, you just didn't have this woman that sort of appear and you're like, right, I'm gonna just tell her story that it's sort of, you know, and that's why she is so complex as well.

I mean she's very much not me and.

But she's everybody.

She's me and everyone I know, like I'm a middle aged woman or middle aged mother.

I'm a bit older than she is.

I think she's 37 on the day of the hotel and I'm 47.

Wow.

So I think I, I was 40 then.

So.

Yeah.

So she's very much not me, but she's bits of everyone I know, including me.

I suppose I'm going to go off tangent.

I just think when you said that you.

It feels like it's very much the right book for you.

You know, you're saying like it was typing as, you know, she was developing as you were typing.

It just feels very.

I mean there was a pandemic which completely stymied me.

And then I worked on another project that didn't end up getting picked up.

Okay.

So it wasn't kind of a consistent working on it, but it meant it was ticking over in my head from then or before then, actually, because that's when I started writing it.

But, you know, you think about it.

First, developing all the ideas.

Yeah, amazing.

Okay, so let's talk about Kate and James then, and their affair.

I mean, she sort of justifies.

Justifies, is it?

That's a new word for the dictionary of obscure words.

She justifies it as her me time, you know, and as you say, she could have gone and got a facial or a massage or, you know, gone shopping secretly, but it made me sort of reflect back to early motherhood.

And you talk about as all the wonders it know, not being able to go to the loo.

It's really, really hard, isn't it?

And I think if somebody had said to me, you could go off to a hotel for the day, it would have just been a dream.

I mean, I wouldn't have wanted a lover there.

Give me a hot bath and a good book and I would be over the moon.

Exactly.

And I did do it.

I can't actually, I can't remember now was it like after child two or after child three?

I think after child three.

And, you know, I just wanted this time alone.

And I went to a nice hotel in Margate in Kent, only it was like October or November, so it's quite cold.

And my husb was lovely.

And he was sending me messages saying, I found this restaurant that you might like to go to and all of that.

And I was like, that's so kind, but actually I just want a sandwich from the supermarket and shut the door.

And that's what I did and watched TV and slept.

It was.

It was lovely.

And it's.

It's funny, isn't it, because you think that you would want something exciting.

But I mean, I used to sort of sometimes think if I didn't have to bring the kids because I have twins.

So like, getting them in this trolley to the supermarket was like, oh, if I could go to the supermarket without the kids, I'd be like, around the aisles like.

Exactly.

And none of that is to take away from just how wonderful and special having children is.

But you just have no time at all, do you?

And even, even if you do have a moment, you're thinking of all the things you have to do or are they okay and there's kind of no.

Brain space at all.

No.

And I'm interested in that because when you said in the auto note you were saying, when you talked about it and people were like, assuming that you were meaning to go and have a lover in the hotel and how that was almost somehow more acceptable.

It's crazy, isn't it that at any other point when I was working, if I was like, right, you know what, I've worked really hard the last couple of weeks, I'm going to go to a spa.

It's not blinked at all but it's like, it's interesting.

So what was it that drew you to that and how important was it for you to sort of get that story across them?

Kate's World?

I just, I mean I think it's quite a trendy term these days, kind of mental load again you see so many kind of cartoons and memes and articles about it but I think it's spot on that there's just so many.

Both expectations of women and expectations we put on ourselves.

So of all the extra things.

So it's not the making dinner, the doing the washing kind of putting kids to bed.

It's the buying the birthday cards and you know, know and the birthday presents for parties and remembering that it's non uniform day at school and all of the gazillion things that, that are there all the time.

And I suppose I was just quite frustrated by how much of it there was and that unless you're doing that role yourself, nobody really understands quite how much there is to think about.

And so I just wanted to kind of kick back against that, I suppose.

And that's where the idea of just having like a hotel is like a blank sheet, isn't it?

There's nothing to think about and nothing to do other than maybe kind of what you have for breakfast.

And you know, do you know the thing that I think would send me over the edge when you talk about that?

The work.

It's not cooking dinner, it's not cleaning up.

It's not that I don't like this, it's thinking about what to have for the meals throughout the week.

Drives me crazy.

I guess.

I'm like, it's so boring.

It's like Groundhog Day.

And even on holiday like I.

You find yourself, I mean as well as having to think about meals on holiday.

Like I'm doing the supermarket shop for when we return.

Which is what Kate does in the book but not because she's me, but just because I think that's the experience of.

I'm sure some men do it but on the whole I think that is the experience I.

Of women.

I think it.

I mean, yeah, I'm sure he won't mind me saying but when my twins were little, I remember my husband Saying to me, like, he gave me like a day off and I came back and they were really little and he was like, you know, it was fine.

It was fine.

It was actually fine.

And I was like, yeah, the bottles hadn't been sterilized.

And I was like, that's easy.

Like just hanging out with them all day.

It's like.

And it's a relentless.

Relentlessness, isn't it?

Like it's day after day after day.

And.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is where you can see why she does sort of, you know, as I say, you might not agree with her, but you can see that sort of frustration.

And also because I think James describes her as sexy and interesting, you know, and it's like, you know, just to sort of feel like herself again, not what people need from her.

Just, you know, being able to be that sort of independent woman that she was before is probably, you know, very alluring to sort of have that and also attention.

People who've read the book keep telling me how kind of perfect her husband is and like, how can she possibly have done this to her husband?

But I am.

I didn't mean to write him as perfect.

I think he's a bit wet.

Not that I'm not using wet as a synonym for kind.

We all want kind.

We all want kind people.

Kind of straight.

But I think she just wants somebody a bit more dangerous at times not to marry, but in her life.

Well, you wouldn't want to be in that situation all the time, would you?

But I think also with Vic, because, you know, he's had his struggles as well.

And so I did wonder whether, you know, she felt that was something else that she was constantly sort of propping up as, you know, his feelings and, you know, his struggles as well.

It's almost another sort of load for her to sort of carry, isn't it?

Yeah, he's quite mentally vulnerable.

Mental health one is, as is she, actually.

But I think she definitely kind of sees it as her responsibility to.

To kind of keep things on an even keel for him as well.

Funny that, isn't it?

Okay, so room 706 explores many themes.

So we've got motherhood, maternal load, grief, friendship, love, sex drama, secrets, guilt.

But one of the scenes I loved it sort of takes all of that and puts it in to this perfect explanation that had I found really emotional.

So we're in the room with them and they don't know what's going to happen.

They don't know their fate.

And Kate kicks into sort of that mothering role.

So she's starting to sort of think about Christmas presents, the weekly shop, you know, preparing her kids for a potential future without her, but also worrying about what her family are going to find out about her, what they're going to think, you know, whether she makes it out or not.

What are they going to think of her?

I found that really quite emotional because when I tried to sort of put myself into that situation, if.

If I thought something bad was going to happen to me, I know I'd be wanting to put things out for my kids, you know, or making life easier.

How was that for you to write as a mother with yourself?

Was that really quite hard or.

I definitely cried quite a lot, both editing it and writing it.

It was emotional because you, you know, like I say, even though Kate isn't me and her children aren't my children, you think about it, don't you?

And you think about, well, what would I want my children to know?

And again, that comes back to kind of reading women.

Women's magazines.

They're kind of awash with sad stories of women preparing for death and things.

So, yeah, I think it is hard.

And you think about, well, what would I tell my children?

What do I want them to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's also.

Yeah.

What they lose as well.

You know, it's like they're.

Particularly if they're young, you know, she's thinking what they'll remember and not being remembered as the woman who was sort of sneaking around, having an affair.

What would he tell them all that is.

Yeah, I found that really.

And also when you were saying, because in the author's note, you're talking about, you know, the messages in 9 11, you think that's.

That is what people, I would assume, would sort of do in that situation.

Sort of sit down and.

But I was like, it's almost really sad that the weekly shop was in there.

Yeah, people have to eat.

There's no escaping that damn shop.

It's like, you know, with.

If you're the one doing kind of life admin with the passwords, be accessible to your surviving partner, that kind of thing.

Oh, don't know what I'm thinking.

I must add that to my.

I've never.

I've never even thought about that.

Would he know?

I mean, it's easy to think about, but.

Or to talk about, but, you know, actually writing it in a document and saving it somewhere is.

Is one of those tasks that you never, never do.

Like make photo albums and things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's interesting, isn't it because in the room, like he is sort of researching like who it might be who's taken the hotel and stuff.

But you're like, you don't really know whether he doing those things as well.

I'm like, I hope you are.

Yeah, Like, I hope you're doing nice things too, like not just sort of checking the footy scores.

I don't think he, I don't think he is.

I think he's a kind of, I mean, James, the lover, he went to boarding school.

He talks about kind of having to hide his emotions.

I don't think he's a sending I love you to people.

No.

No.

Okay, so on the.

Back of the book there's a brilliant quote.

So when I picked this up and I looked, I was like, oh, I quite often like to go into books completely blind and just start reading them.

So I was like, it's a thriller.

So when I started reading I was like, there are thriller elements, but there's a lot more going on.

There's a lot of love in this book as well.

And I thought one of the quotes on the back of the book from Cecilia Ahern was just so brilliant.

And she says it's a love story wrapped up in a grenade.

I was like, I'm love that.

It's so brilliant.

So what is it to you, Ellie?

Do you see it as a thriller, a love story, or something else entirely?

What is room 706 to you?

It's such a nice quote, first of all, isn't it?

I, I, when she gave it, I was so touched.

And then she messaged me on Instagram to ask me a question about the ending and we had a kind of back and forth about it and I was like, this is like a pinch myself moment.

This is everything.

So generous of her and so kind.

And it's great because it means like, I mean, I know people sometimes talk to me and they're like, oh, those quotes real?

But I was like, I hear this all the time.

Somebody will say like a big author's puts a quote in their book, but they've messaged them to talk about how much they love it as well as like, it is real.

I think there are some really genuine.

It was really, really kind and yeah, good example, you know, if I, if I reach that kind of success, I hope I can pay it forward one day.

I'm sure you will.

But in terms of genre, see, I never thought it was a thriller.

I've always been completely surpr.

Surprised that people think it's a thriller because I. I mean, not that I don't like thrillers.

I like some thrillers, but I don't like scary things.

I. I actually shy away from being scared, being scared of things.

You know, I don't watch psychological thrillers by myself and I always go with somebody, if it's the cinema, if it might be scary.

So I'm a complete worst.

So when people started telling me that my book was scary, I was like, really goodness me.

But then I've always known what happens.

So it's not been scary to me because it's.

None of it's ever taken me by surprise.

Like I knew the ending when I started.

So I don't.

I mean, it certainly has thriller elements.

My agent calls it thrilling, but not a thriller.

I kind of created a new genre in my head, which was.

Which was.

I see it as a bit kind of for women.

Well, one, men, hopefully, but predominantly women who are clever but tired, which is basically everyone I know, every woman I know.

And because the books that I've read since having children.

They'Re not dumbed down, they're just.

They've got to be accessible.

Like my brain has to be able to deal with it even when I'm kind of completely drained.

So I just thought, well, it's got to be for women who are clever, but maybe just need a slight nudge in making it accessible.

Yeah, I think that's a good point actually.

I mean, but I think there is so much in there as well.

Like, I mean, I know I'm going to keep coming back.

We're actually going to record.

I meant to say this at the beginning.

We're going to record a bonus episode when we can talk a little bit more.

I'm trying to sort of, sort of talk around a lot of the spoilers, but I mean it's only going to be coming out as this podcast comes out in the world, so people probably won't have read it yet.

But there's so much to think about in it.

I mean, I know since I finished it, I keep going back.

It pops into my head all the time.

So yes, for those tired women as well, I think, you know, every.

And I'd love to see men pick it up as well.

Yeah, I mean, I hope so.

I Writing it.

I really hope it.

I really hoped it was one of those books that people pass to their male partners or friends or the other way.

Maybe, maybe he'll read it first.

And there's a few nobles that.

Where that has happened in my life.

Like there's some Authors that both my husband and I like and pass to each other.

And so I'd love it if it became one of those.

And also maybe it would help.

I mean, I'm not a man, so I'm.

I made up what it feels like to be a man.

I don't know.

And also, you know, I made up what it feels like to be Kate.

But maybe it would help people understand the mental load of it.

I don't know.

Yeah, I was.

My husband doesn't read an awful lot, but every year when we go on holiday, I'm allowed to choose one book that he'll read.

And this is one.

Oh, wow.

Yes.

I'm like, I really want you to read it.

I'm so sorry, Mr. Helen.

He'll be fine.

He'll love it.

He will love it.

So, Ellie, I know you're not a fan of scary movies.

Neither am I. I am the most jumpy person you will ever meet.

But I do think room 706 would be a brilliant movie.

So if you were able to pick your dream cast, have you thought about who it was?

Just hard.

So you say you don't really know who Kate is.

I found it quite hard when I've sat trying to think who I thought she might be.

I haven't been able to come up with anybody.

So interested.

Who.

Who would you like to see play Kate?

Do you know Kate?

I'm not sure I really wanted her to be every woman, but also I was really keen that she didn't have any body hang ups in the book.

So although she's kind of naked at times in the book, I never wanted her to like worry about wobbly bits or what she looked like.

I wanted her to be body confident and sexually confident.

So I almost think, obviously every Hollywood movie star is beautiful, but maybe someone not too beautiful.

But having said that, and now I'm not going to name anyone because, you know, that wouldn't be fair.

I just had this conversation with somebody yesterday.

They're like, oh, she needs to be somebody who's not beautiful.

I'm like, stop.

Exactly.

Stop now.

But, you know, maybe not.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolute kind of glamour icon.

Yeah.

I always had in mind for James.

Who is a lover, Mark Strong.

He is in lots of things.

I first came to my attention in our Friends in the north in the 90s, which was TV show.

He was recently on the stage in Oedipus.

He's been a James Bond villain.

You'll recognize him if you google him.

I'll recognize him.

Things not working so I always had.

Him in mind maybe just because, you know, I'd quite like to go and have a drink with him and talk about the character.

But then I was, I was watching Celebrity Traitors this week, which will date when we're recording this for your listeners.

Yeah.

And I've now forgotten his name.

Mark the gray haired.

I can't remember his surname now.

I'm sorry, Mark.

And I thought he'd be good.

But then he was actually in Apple Tree Yard on tv, which I think has some similarities to my book.

Although actually that is quite scary.

So, yeah, maybe him.

So, yes, I have.

They've thought about it and not come to any conclusions.

I'd be so thrilled if it got made at all, you know, I would.

It'd be brilliant.

It would be a real.

I mean, I would literally be behind my cushion up.

So we're going to talk about the bits that I found scary in the bonus episode because we're not going to really.

My daughter, my daughter who I seems to think that she might have a say in casting, is pushing for Jennifer Lawrence.

Oh, well, of course.

But she's very beautiful, don't get me wrong.

Yeah, she's obviously thinking about who she would like.

Yes, I think like.

Yep, well played.

I like that.

Okay, so room 706 is out 15th of January, which is probably when this episode is going to launch as well.

You definitely need to grab it and get your hands on it and clear your day because you will just tear through it as well and enjoy.

It is brilliant, brilliant read.

Thank you so much.

Okay, Ellie, so before we talk about the books that you picked that have shaped your life, just to remind listeners that all of the books we'll talk about are going to be listed in the show notes so it'll be easy to find.

So how did you find picking your five?

You did it quite quickly.

I just thought I have to be decisive here.

It's like buying a birthday card.

Like no one knows what you didn't include, only what you did.

So I'm gonna go for it.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah, that's very good.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's get started with your first pick.

You know, you're gonna see in here rustling of papers because being a woman of a certain age, my memory now is completely shot and I, I didn't remember anyone's name even though I'd be like, I love that book.

Oh God, what were they called?

So I've written it all down next to me so I can talk properly about it.

I always have My notes, I always have to keep looking down because I just.

Yeah, things come in and fly out very quickly these days.

Okay, so your first book that you picked there, do you want me to read them out to you?

I have them here, actually.

Yeah.

Okay.

So my first one.

Well, I. I think when I sent you my list, I called it the Faraway Tree, but I looked it up and it was actually called the Magic Faraway Tree, which is by Enid Glyton.

I'm so sorry.

And then when I looked it up, actually, that kind of covers.

Oh, what.

What do you.

A quartet, four books.

So I'll read them.

There were.

There was the Enchanted Wood, the Magic Faraway Tree, the Folk of the Faraway Tree, and Up the Faraw.

And so I don't know which is the one that.

Because in my head they became one.

You know, it's kind of bit you read when you're about 8 or 9.

Yeah.

And it was an Enid Blyton book.

And I loved everything.

Enid Blyton from.

From the Famous Five to Malory Towers to everything in between, and kind of read them a lot.

And this, this one was about some children who discover a kind of magic tree with magic characters who live in the tree.

And at the top of the tree there's revolving worlds.

So if you entered one, you could stay there, but there'd be, I think, kind of an alarm or siren which would indicate the world was going to move on and you had to get out of the world and back down the tree or you'd be stuck in it.

So quite sci fi, really.

Although I don't think I knew.

Or fantasy, maybe I didn't.

I. I wouldn't have thought of it as such.

And some of the worlds were good and some of the worlds were bad.

And I loved it.

I loved those books.

I'm just a year or so older than you, so they're very much what I grew up in as well.

We had like a big Enid Blyton Library as well, but Magic Faraway Tree, I was trying to think what the washing.

Oh, yeah, Washing thing.

That.

Not slinky.

I can't remember, but there's like something Throw down the washing down the tree.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

I think, I mean, it's easy, isn't it, now, to kind of rationalize it.

However, 40 years later, you know.

But if I were to do that, I guess it opened your mind to different worlds and world building and.

And the thing in it.

Blyton does say, well, you know, that I haven't revisited this book for years, but maybe it's.

I can't imagine they were very long.

She wouldn't have had many words to build each world which would be different.

And so that idea that you can kind of make somewhere appear.

Maybe that was planted then.

Or maybe I just enjoyed them.

I don't know.

So we did.

We revisited it with our kids on audiobook because Kate Winslet.

Oh, does she?

Okay.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

And it's lovely.

And they really enjoy, like on car journeys and things, they enjoyed it.

But I think if they were to sit down, it just hasn't sort of helped.

Yeah.

They weren't particularly interested in the way that we were.

But they.

They were.

They were just.

They were books that made you readers, weren't they just.

They sort of ignited that passion and excitement for.

And there was a really good charity shop where I grew up where you could buy them for 20p.

So we were like, given a pound and you'd come home with five books and so.

And they were just endless because you wrote so many.

But.

But this was loads.

But this was definitely this.

And Mallory Towers were my favorites by different, I think, different stages.

Mallory Towers, bit older.

And they were just those lovely little hardbacks, weren't they?

Just, like, really lovely.

And the illustrations as well.

We had loads, like, mistakes.

Pink Whistle is one.

Oh, I don't remember that one.

Is it Topsy and.

No, that's Topsy.

And Tim's Modern, isn't it?

What was the cat one?

Bimbo.

Bimbo and Lo.

I don't know.

There's so many.

Probably all kind of have slightly different curated collections.

Yeah.

Again, I probably just like molded, like lots of different childhood books into one.

I'm like, yeah, that was definitely a thing.

Okay, perfect.

So what was your second?

I'll move on to my next bit of paper.

There you go.

So I loved Noel Streatfield.

I loved all of her books.

And I know the obvious choice would be Ballet Shoes, and I did love that, but actually I've chosen Thursday's Child because it did go thing where it made me feel like I had discovered it because it was lesser known.

So.

It'S actually much later than Ballet Shoes.

I was looking this up last night and what was.

Yeah.

So it wouldn't have been out that long when I found it, but it was set at the turn of.

And it's an orphan called Margaret Thursday.

And I loved it because I was born on a Thursday.

And it was this idea of, you know, Thursday's child is far to go and she's a foundling and she's found with a basket which has three of everything.

So like three outfits and blankets and things.

And they were the finest things.

So although she's an orphan, we know that she's come from kind of some well to doness at some point.

And when she's 10, the people looking after her can't look after her anymore.

The money stops and she goes to an orphanage, which is absolutely foul, and runs away with two brothers and a sister and goes to live.

Or she's taken in by a family who live on canal boats.

And it's just a brilliant story of, I guess, rags to riches, but also just escaping horrible people.

I loved it.

And then there's a sequel called Far To Go, which is what happens next in her life when she becomes an actress and encounters the awful matron from the orphanage again.

Oh, first off, well done.

Sneaking extra.

Oh, yeah.

I wondered if you.

I wondered if you'd notice.

Caught you.

I let the four go on the first one.

I haven't read any of these, but that sounds like one I could actually sit.

It sounds like one I could sit down and quite happily enjoy now.

Yeah, I read it out loud to one of my kids and I don't know if they enjoyed it, but I still loved it.

Oh, I love that when it's something you.

Because I remember like the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe was like.

I just loved that.

And when I read it to my kids, they didn't love it as much as I did.

Yeah, that was never one of my favorites.

Yeah, yeah, that was for me.

It's like that, I'd say, is the book that made me a reader.

I remember my mum reading it to me and just being like, you know, sort of like the cliffhangers also, like.

But just.

That'S it.

Like when you say about your mum reading it, because I think so many books, it's not just about the book, it's about when we read it or who we.

Who we read it with.

That make it the kind of real influence and the real nice memory.

Yeah, it definitely does.

I think you do.

I mean, my kids talk up.

We had a book called Friendly Day when they were little that we got from the charity shop and they.

They talk about the pit.

We've put it up in the loft to keep it, but they can remember all the pictures and like.

Yeah.

The lines from it as well.

And I was like, that's so nice that.

That's their sort of metro.

So they didn't like the lion, the Water lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

I'll get over that.

They did like Friendly Day.

So.

Okay, let's move on to number three, then.

By the way, I have only read one of your books, so.

Ah.

I think I know which one that will be.

Yeah, that is.

Yeah.

But not.

Not this one.

No.

Okay.

This one's a bit cheeky as well, because it's Under Milk Wood by Dylan Thomas.

Which book?

I. I encountered it as a book because it was one of my A level texts.

Okay.

But it was written as a radio play and so I didn't know plays were allowed, but I wrote my own rules.

I'm happy with that.

And actually, I hated doing it for A level.

None of it clicked.

It didn't make any sense.

So I didn't love studying under Milkwood to start with.

But then I suppose the advantage of a kind of London childhood is that, you know, there's lots of theatres.

And again, I've looked it up and there was so many famous actors in, but I didn't know because I was 16 or 17, and also they weren't yet famous, so Ruth Jones, as in Gavin and Stacey, she was in it.

And Reese Ifans probably said that wrong.

Nerys Hughes, really big names, but I didn't know that.

But it was an amazing production and I was actually transixed and then I went back and reread the text and absolutely loved it.

And then you can listen to it.

Like the famous radio version is Richard Burton reading it and he obviously has the most amazing voice and it's just.

It's.

I mean, it is poetry.

It's all poetry, but it tells a story and it's 24 hours in the day of this small Welsh town with all the characters in it, and I just loved it.

The language is beautiful and I think it's made me fall in love with language, really.

So I'm off.

That's amazing.

That's.

I think it's so important for children and young people to have experiences where literature, poetry, whatever, is brought to life like that, because that's.

That's what sort of gets you to fall in love with it, I think, when it's just taught.

Because I never went.

I didn't go on to do my A levels.

I went to do a vocational because I just hated studying at school.

I really just didn't enjoy the class.

I never felt like I was smart enough to get it.

But actually, when I started to read things afterwards and just sort of picking books up to enjoy them, it was better for me.

So I think, like, you know, going to see a play, you can see how that would just inspire kids to sort of be like, oh, it's quite interesting.

And.

Yeah, yeah.

And also when you read things.

How cool.

It was really cool.

And also when you read things at school, it's quite bitty, isn't it?

You have to go at their speed and, you know, there's always someone messing about and never me.

That would have been me.

So.

Yeah.

So.

But.

But now, I mean, I. I still will revisit it as an adult and listen to it sometimes, and it's.

I think it's brilliant.

Yeah, well, that's the thing with books.

They are.

I mean, I know some people don't like to reread.

I do reread a few books.

It's like catching up with old friends, isn't it?

It's just something so comfortable and lovely about picking up a book that you know so well.

So, okay, I am buzzing for this one, your next one, because I can finally, finally say I've read it.

So do you want to tell us about your fourth?

And I think I might be a bit of a cliche because I think this might be your most picked book.

It's the most picked book, but it's a good book.

It's A Time Traveller's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger.

And I just love it.

I still love it.

I've only read it once.

I don't reread things either.

Although, I mean, this is the theme here.

I did see it at the theatre last year or the year before.

They had a musical of it and with the lyrics by Josh Stone and Dave Stewart from the Eurythmics.

And it was also lovely.

Are they different?

I sobbed, obviously, all the way through.

I don't know if you're a sobber.

I.

If you sobbed at the book, but.

Oh, I'm terrible.

It's beautiful.

It's a love story.

It's about time travel, but it's about time travel in a completely, like.

It's written so beautifully.

It doesn't feel out of the ordinary.

It just feels like a completely normal thing to happen.

Yeah.

Like you buy or I bought into it from the get go.

Yeah.

And any book that makes me cry.

I mean I love a weepy.

I do, I love a weepy.

What was the.

I'm really interested.

Like what was it like?

How did they do it on stage?

Like how do they like with the age differences and do you know, I.

Knew you were going to ask and a bit like.

Sorry, like reading books.

I don't remember.

I just remember the whole experience.

I just remember that.

I remember that I liked it but it.

Don't.

Don't ask me detail.

I can, I can tell you that six, six of us went in a group and three of us sobbed and three were completely nonplussed.

So it isn't for everyone but I. I was a sobber and I loved it.

Okay.

I would be a sober as well.

I finally.

I mean I feel like the last person on the planet to pick it up because I've just read it a few months ago but it was picked by.

And it's actually when I spoke to Julian McAllister who wrote famous Last Words and just another missing person.

But also I'm like, how did I leave it so long?

I was really intimidated by it for some reason.

I actually listened to the audiobook which I think really helped me to sort of, you know, keep the flow because I was sort of overthinking a little bit at the beginning.

I think I was looking for like, you know, explanation or sort of something about the time travel but being sort of swept along in the audiobook.

It's brilliantly done audiobook as well actually.

But I really.

And it takes a kind of.

Kind of mythic proportions, doesn't it?

When everybody's read it and you haven't.

I should reread it.

I'm scared to reread it in case I didn't like it as much as I did when I read it.

Yeah.

Whereas for me I just think it's amazing.

Do you know when you read it roughly, was it a long time ago?

I reckon it would have been in the first couple of years but interestingly my mum when she read room 706 said to me, well, you can really see the time traveler's wife influence And I was like, really?

I. I hadn't thought of it once.

Not consciously.

So I, I wouldn't say it was an influence other than it has influenced me as a person, as a reader.

I don't remember.

I certainly didn't consciously think about it at all while writing.

I'll have to think about that.

I think she's wrong.

I mean, other than she's kind of.

She's not.

She's.

I was gonna say she's right about everything, but other than that, I think she's wrong.

That's so interesting.

It shows.

I mean, something else I love is how everyone experiences.

Experiences books differently.

Like, we can all have exactly the same text and somebody's going to see something that somebody else won't or.

It's so interesting, isn't it, how.

How that happens?

So I'm curious.

I'm gonna have a flick through and so you can sort of see.

I wish I'd read the Time Traveler's Wife earlier on because I think reading it sort of like in my late 40s, I was sort of stopping myself.

And being a mother as well, I was sort of stopping myself like, oh, is it a bit weird?

Is it a bit weird that he's visiting this little girl?

I was like, stop, just don't overthink it now.

A friend of mine was saying that I was telling her about, that I was about this podcast.

I was coming to talk to you and what books I'd picked.

And she was like, well, that one's a bit problematic.

And I was like, is it?

I never thought it was at the time.

Yeah, I mean, it's.

It's darker than I thought as well.

I mean, there's a few things that I was like, you know, wasn't expecting.

But.

Yeah, I know.

I wish I'd read it earlier, but I'm glad I've read it.

And I did enjoy it and also just now because it was.

I was thinking if I have to say on this podcast one more time, people are going to be like, helen.

I can sort it out.

Okay, so we're going to move on to your final book.

So I'm going to sneak in extra books.

Again, I'm so sorry.

This one is the Trick to Time by Kit Duvall.

But the thing is, I could have picked any of her books.

I think they're all brilliant.

I love her.

I've never met her, but I think everything she writes is the perfect example of my genre.

My clever but tired women.

It's all so thought provoking, but accessible and like her most recent one, the Best of Everything, again made me absolutely sob all the way through.

And still, when I think about it.

But again, a bit like Thursday's Child, the Trip to Time.

I feel like I discovered it because I think it's one of her lesser known ones.

You know, people have heard of.

My name is Leon.

Yeah, I've got it on my shelf.

Yeah, exactly.

And her autobiography is great as well, I think.

Just think she writes brilliantly.

But I have bought the tricked time for several friends because.

Well, first of all, because you don't want to buy books that you think they've already read.

And I don't think, yeah, I have read this, but it's just really thought provoking and emotional.

It's probably the same thing.

It's a good story.

And I like books which are set against real life events.

And I thought that was quite interesting.

So events are either.

Well, that's before I was born, but that kind of are in your consciousness.

So I don't remember those events, but certainly remember some of the fallout afterwards.

And so, yeah, that.

That made it work very much for me.

I think she's.

I think I've got two of her books on my shelf that I've bought and thought, oh, that sounds amazing.

I haven't picked them up.

So I know that my name is Leon.

I've got that.

So I must.

They're really easy reads in terms of the process of reading, but not emotionally easy at all.

And they really make you think about them, I think, for quite a long time afterwards.

Okay.

I'll add that you probably need to.

Be in an emotionally robust place for some of them.

That's your trigger warning for you.

Okay.

Okay.

Not sure when that day's gonna come.

Okay, so, Ellie, I've got a tough question then.

So if you were only allowed to read one of those books again, which one would you choose?

Actually, it's not that tough.

I know straight away.

Okay, I would go for under Milkwood, just because I think the language is so beautiful.

You wouldn't even have to read the whole thing.

You could just pick like 10 lines and enjoy it for.

For the language and it wouldn't have to make sense.

You could just enjoy the kind of cadence and the imagery.

And, you know, however tired you were, you could probably read one line before bed and be happy.

Oh, that's so lovely.

What a lovely, lovely thing to say.

Ellie, it has been so lovely chatting to you and I'm so excited because we now get to go and do a bonus episode and chat.

I'm excited as well.

Thank you so much for having me.

This did so much fun.

Thank you.

It's been lovely.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Well, I hope that conversation's got you all excited and ready to race out and grab your copy of Room 706.

It is a brilliant read, one that I would highly recommend.

And if you have read it, don't forget we've recorded a special bonus episode where Ellie and I chat about that ending, so do be sure to go and find that one as well.

As always, in the show notes, you will find all of the books that we've talked about today with links to buy as well.

I'll be back next Thursday chatting to another author and I really hope that you'll join me for that episode too.

In the meantime, I would be so grateful if you could take the time to rate, review, subscribe, and most importantly, tell your Bookish friends all about this podcast.

It really does make a huge difference to the show.

Thanks for listening and see you next week.