Shownotes
What happens when a leader returns to the trenches? Not just for a day, a sprint, or a month. They commit to operating in one of their earliest roles again for numerous months. Josh is doing just that. Listen and find out why this would be a good move for you to try.
You listened to the intro, right? Here's the link Josh was talking about.
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Transcripts
I'm I get all my shit done.
Josh Anderson:Let's go.
Josh Anderson:I don't care where you're at.
Josh Anderson:Let.
Josh Anderson:No just it's, it's just, it's a, it's a never ending.
Josh Anderson:All right.
Josh Anderson:Never ending.
Josh Anderson:Let's take a breath.
Josh Anderson:It's about Bob.
Josh Anderson:It's about Bob.
Josh Anderson:Let's
Bob:breathe in Josh and breathe out.
Josh Anderson:Episode 221.
Josh Anderson:Josh goes back to the scrum master role, find out why, how and the value
Josh Anderson:it's provided him and you know what.
Josh Anderson:Everybody should probably take a step back.
Josh Anderson:Go back to the grassroots and understand where things are at.
Josh Anderson:If you haven't done that in a while, Hit the pause button and do that.
Josh Anderson:It'll make a huge difference.
Josh Anderson:All right before we get started.
Josh Anderson:You guys know Josh released NFTs, right?
Josh Anderson:Oh, you didn't.
Josh Anderson:Well, There is a link below in the show notes that'll get you to everything
Josh Anderson:Josh has going on, and it is.
Josh Anderson:A lot.
Josh Anderson:So look forward to getting feedback on that and hope you enjoy the episode.
Josh Anderson:as we discussed in previous episodes.
Josh Anderson:Josh's career has been interesting tumultuous to say the least this summer.
Josh Anderson:I landed myself in a scrum master role Ooh.
Josh Anderson:For the past couple of months and for probably through the end of the year.
Josh Anderson:And that's been
Bob:interesting is that, is that end of the year.
Bob:So that's like a six months St.
Bob:Is the school semester.
Bob:As you and I talked about it, I'm really curious as to like
Bob:what you've learned from that.
Bob:Well, it
Josh Anderson:it's been interesting because I came in guns blazing.
Josh Anderson:Like I'm the guy in charge, which I have been for a decade and instantly
Josh Anderson:trying to make all these changes, cuz it's like, okay, this is wrong.
Josh Anderson:This is wrong.
Josh Anderson:This is wrong.
Josh Anderson:This is.
Josh Anderson:and most of it wasn't even about the team.
Josh Anderson:It was about the organization and we needed this.
Josh Anderson:So did you,
Bob:did you come in like that?
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:See, that's what I would guess about you.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:And if you're a leader, there's nothing wrong.
Bob:yeah.
Bob:Right.
Bob:If you're a leader, there's nothing wrong with that.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:In fact, that's right, right.
Bob:But if you're a scrum master, Uh, so I'm really curious.
Bob:How, how did that work for you?
Josh Anderson:Uh, well, an architect in the first meeting, just you could
Josh Anderson:tell he was really not happy with me.
Josh Anderson:Really?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:So I set up a meeting, I'm like, okay, what's going on?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And he's like, you can't do this.
Josh Anderson:I'm like, what do you mean?
Josh Anderson:Like, these are the things we need to do.
Josh Anderson:And it was okay.
Josh Anderson:So you're coming in on a 18th month project with like four months left.
Josh Anderson:Oh, you know?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And we've done a lot of work to get here and we're wrapping things up.
Josh Anderson:Oh.
Josh Anderson:And we're a little nervous about changing things at the
Josh Anderson:end when we're near the finish.
Josh Anderson:um, so then the head of the engagement also set up a call with me the next day.
Josh Anderson:He's like, so I heard the first day was interesting and I said,
Josh Anderson:yeah, I was just doing what I do.
Josh Anderson:I was doing my thing.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Like that's what I do.
Josh Anderson:He was like, I get it.
Josh Anderson:I understand Josh.
Josh Anderson:We just need you to be a scrum master.
Josh Anderson:Is
Bob:that, what is that?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And he's like, everything you're saying is right, you are 100%, right.
Josh Anderson:We could and should do those things.
Josh Anderson:But right now where we are, we need to just like put our head down and do this.
Josh Anderson:And every fiber of my being.
Josh Anderson:does not like that.
Bob:I wonder, I wonder, like when you said that I was wondering like sped, oh
Josh Anderson:man came to me,
Bob:you know, and it would SP me as well.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:I mean, I could maybe do it, but that's my deep.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:You and I are wired that way now.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Maybe like 20 years ago, we weren't quite wired that way,
Bob:but now we're wired that way.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:So it took me a while to keep my mouth shut.
Josh Anderson:What I've been paid to do for the past decade, decade and a half is
Josh Anderson:come in and fix as many things as possible, as quickly as possible.
Josh Anderson:So, yeah, I was just rock it and rolling like that.
Josh Anderson:And then to have to flip that switch very quickly was difficult, but I did it.
Josh Anderson:I got it done.
Josh Anderson:Now I can tell you, I feel myself rebounding a bit and like, I think just
Josh Anderson:the general, uh, Desire to drive positive change and all the different directions.
Josh Anderson:I see that I can have an effect across the organization.
Josh Anderson:I feel it sneaking back in, but I'm doing it in a much more subtle approach.
Josh Anderson:That's why I was wondering
Bob:yeah, like a stealth approach.
Bob:And not directing your face.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:So
Josh Anderson:what I've been doing is various leaders across the organization
Josh Anderson:because they're working through the planning for 23 and what that looks like.
Josh Anderson:And I said, Hey, and you're planning for 23.
Josh Anderson:Have you talked about this?
Josh Anderson:You think maybe this is something that you wanna talk through
Josh Anderson:and I just offer to help.
Josh Anderson:And so then I have the opportunity to lay these things out in front of them
Josh Anderson:as like a buffet of like, Hey, here's.
Josh Anderson:That I think could work having been here for a couple of months.
Josh Anderson:Right.
Josh Anderson:Um, I don't know if I'm gonna be here in 23 or what's going on, but
Josh Anderson:here's, here's things that I think you might want to think about yeah.
Josh Anderson:In the coming months as you plan.
Josh Anderson:So I still have, weezled my way back into, um, trying to drive change and, but it's
Josh Anderson:a, every direction I could advisory role.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Right, right.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:So that, so that's that that's taken me a couple of months to number one.
Josh Anderson:Uh, dampen my desire to change, uh, and then find ways to enable
Josh Anderson:that to happen without, or with much less disruption than I usually
Josh Anderson:have as I'm driving these changes.
Bob:I mean, one of the things in your defense and, and not
Bob:that I'm trying to defend you.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:But, um, the role of the scrum master.
Bob:So when they say, I just want you to be a scrum master,
Bob:I'm sort of riffing off that.
Bob:It's like, do you really know like a scrum master is an organizational coach now
Bob:maybe 95% of them don't do that initially.
Bob:Right.
Bob:But you, you have that well-rounded capability.
Bob:Mm-hmm like you came in the door with that.
Bob:So if you look in the scrum guide, for example, it's not just coach the team.
Bob:Right, right.
Bob:It's coach the organization.
Bob:So you were doing some of that mm-hmm so it, I'm not ch I'm not telling you
Bob:that you were wrong or they were wrong.
Bob:I'm just saying they may not know.
Bob:Like they hired a great scrum master.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Right.
Bob:So be careful what you careful what you asked for.
Bob:Yeah, yeah.
Bob:Right.
Bob:Because that is the role.
Bob:Yep.
Bob:It
Josh Anderson:is part of the role.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And, and, you know, I, I'm super grateful for the folks that got me in
Josh Anderson:there and it's been super welcoming.
Josh Anderson:It's just, I've had to adjust in different ways and I've adjusted in the past.
Josh Anderson:So it's been a good lesson for me that.
Josh Anderson:My hammer that I've been using.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Isn't always the tool that's necessary.
Josh Anderson:Uh, and, and, and to do a better job.
Josh Anderson:As I walk in the door and look at the landscape and then map
Josh Anderson:out and approach, instead of always doing the thing that I do.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Bob:But I bet it was abrupt because that is your typical.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:It would be my typical style.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Like I would be like a bull in a China shop.
Bob:If I went in as a scrum, ER, I mean in a positive way, I wouldn't be
Bob:trying to, you know, destroy anything.
Bob:Right.
Bob:But it would still be, you know, if I found impediments and things
Bob:like that, have you, are they aware of your capabilities?
Bob:And so, so if you offer them, you could turn it into a pool system.
Bob:It sounds like you were kind of
Josh Anderson:that's.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:That's what I'm trying to set up, um, is spending time with
Josh Anderson:leaders across the organization.
Josh Anderson:And, and there are some that are pooling, you know, a as, as we've spent more time
Josh Anderson:together than then, then they'll reach out and say, Hey, I'm thinking about this.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:For some of the team makeup in future years, What do you think?
Josh Anderson:How would you do it?
Josh Anderson:You know, I mean,
Bob:I think it would be silly even without even a scrum master, without
Bob:as much experience as you have.
Bob:I think it would be a good practice for folks to tap into
Bob:their, I haven't seen that enough.
Bob:Mm-hmm probably out there of, of maybe the scrum masters.
Bob:Aren't setting it up, like here's your smorgasboard of stuff and pulled in.
Bob:But I haven't seen a lot of folks like use smoke, scrum
Bob:masters as like a, an advisor.
Bob:Um, I
Josh Anderson:don't think.
Josh Anderson:it's interesting.
Josh Anderson:What I've seen in the industry.
Josh Anderson:I don't see people viewing the role as that.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:You know, it is team focused and, and,
Bob:and like delivery focused.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:And tactically focused.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:So that's almost a waste depending because scrum master's coming in.
Bob:Uh, I mean, my daughter Rianne mm-hmm, pivoted in with 15
Bob:years of, or like leadership experience, not in, not in tech.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:And.
Bob:And, you know, now I think they're tapping some of that, but she, and
Bob:then she took an entry level or a startup actually a scrum master role.
Bob:And it's like tapping into that experience, uh, is probably a
Bob:missing, depending on the scrum master mm-hmm is, is sort of a,
Bob:a missed opportunity, I think.
Josh Anderson:Yeah, it does feel, and, and I know this is how many
Josh Anderson:organizations role, uh, pun not intended, but it's like, this is the role.
Josh Anderson:Do that job stay in your lane.
Bob:You know, it is, I, I, it is like that, right.
Bob:Mm-hmm I, I see that.
Bob:So often I'm in the middle of teaching a cow class and I may I'm a, and, and
Bob:the, where this org, it's a private cow class with an organization.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:So a captive leadership team, not, not all the senior leaders,
Bob:but tech and product leaders.
Bob:And, um, That message might even help them of switch from that, stay
Bob:in your lane to getting things done.
Bob:Mm-hmm right.
Bob:And leveraging everyone's capabilities.
Bob:Uh, most organizations is still it's.
Bob:It's a construct of what org charts and job descriptions, right?
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Yep.
Bob:And just patterns.
Bob:And stay in your lane and it's not just the leaders doing it.
Bob:People see, that's the thing with you.
Bob:You couldn't stay in your lane,
Josh Anderson:right?
Josh Anderson:yes.
Josh Anderson:That's correct.
Josh Anderson:No, no, but
Bob:most, most people in a scrum master role are gonna stay.
Bob:This is my job description.
Bob:Mm-hmm this is, is what they're paying me.
Bob:So it's not just the leaders.
Bob:It's the dynamic of the per of the individuals as
Josh Anderson:well.
Josh Anderson:Mm-hmm and, and, uh, PR I am much more comfortable rocking the boat yeah.
Josh Anderson:And saying, or doing things that could be detrimental to my future yeah.
Josh Anderson:At that job.
Josh Anderson:Um, but I it's like, I can't, I can't turn that off.
Josh Anderson:The really good thing though, is that as typical issues come
Josh Anderson:up, I don't flinch at all.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:You know, it's.
Josh Anderson:I catch myself smiling as people are throwing these challenges out at me.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And it's like, okay, well here's, here's the allow me to retort, you know?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And so we work through it and, and the, uh, confidence and
Josh Anderson:willingness to Wade into the really.
Josh Anderson:Messy stuff.
Josh Anderson:Yep.
Josh Anderson:Is a bajillion.
Josh Anderson:That's a technical, I mean, that's a big number.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Uh, times higher than it was when you and I met.
Josh Anderson:When I, when I first was a scrum master at Teradata.
Josh Anderson:Right.
Josh Anderson:And doing that for the first thing,
Bob:were you, and I'm, I'm asking this with a smile on my face.
Bob:Is it, was, was there any humbling that happened?
Bob:So were you humbled in any way, like you had an assumption and
Bob:you're like, you know, I've lost.
Bob:I've lost touch with the little, you know, the small folks I've been a
Bob:leader to, you know, so was there any humbling like that you reflected on,
Bob:you know, and said, you know what, I, I lost my empathy for scrum masters.
Bob:I renewed my empathy or something like that.
Bob:No, not humbling in a yeah.
Bob:In a malicious way, but any revelations that you have?
Bob:No,
Josh Anderson:I I've.
Josh Anderson:I've always, no, I can't say I've always valued the role, but since.
Josh Anderson:Dude, I value the role, uh, and what I've seen for the past few gigs in a row.
Josh Anderson:Um, and, and this group's trying to not let it happen is scrum masters are this
Josh Anderson:kind of weird thing that float out there?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And they don't know what to do with them.
Josh Anderson:Um, This group has a person that's like, Hey, you were leading the scrum masters.
Josh Anderson:You own agile across the board.
Josh Anderson:It's your responsible
Bob:return that if you will, to this person yeah.
Bob:Who's guiding the scrum, like ahead of the scrum masters.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Okay.
Josh Anderson:And, and, and I I've seen few.
Josh Anderson:organizations dedicate a person to do that.
Josh Anderson:It's usually an and issue.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Of like, oh, I've got, I've got the engineers and a scrum master or PO right.
Bob:Well, providing that guidance to me is a maturity step.
Bob:Right.
Bob:For them.
Bob:Right.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Okay.
Josh Anderson:So, but there've been many places where it's
Josh Anderson:just, they're just kind of there.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And they, um, just kind of wander the earth without much
Josh Anderson:guidance and do the best they can.
Josh Anderson:And then the organization doesn't know how to measure them.
Josh Anderson:And it just gets it, it gets bad for both sides.
Josh Anderson:Uh, but this group is not doing that, which is, which is really nice to see.
Josh Anderson:They're really invested in it.
Josh Anderson:So that's a, that's a positive it to me.
Josh Anderson:The humbling experience was that second half of that first day.
Josh Anderson:And then the second day where I was like, oh God damn it.
Josh Anderson:Why I, I knew what this role was.
Josh Anderson:Yep.
Josh Anderson:Josh, why did you do that?
Josh Anderson:You know, just
Bob:thankfully they, they, they talked to you about it, right?
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:It sounds like they really stepped up.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:And had a real time hard, crucial conversation with you.
Bob:Mm-hmm and given that right.
Bob:Or, I mean, other other folks would've.
Bob:You know, ignored it.
Bob:Right.
Bob:And not like you.
Bob:Right.
Bob:And let you go or whatever, mm-hmm or not, not address it at all.
Bob:So you continue to piss people off, but it sounds like the
Bob:leaders there really stepped up.
Bob:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:It, which was perfect because I could see that they were
Josh Anderson:willing to have the tough conversation.
Josh Anderson:I was willing to jump into it too.
Josh Anderson:So exactly very quickly we established that, Hey, this is an open communication.
Josh Anderson:That we have, and we're gonna work together and when something goes
Josh Anderson:wrong, we're gonna address it quickly.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Um, and that's helped over the following, um, weeks, because what happened is,
Josh Anderson:uh, some of my, you know, large swings.
Josh Anderson:Frustrated the PO and frustrated other people.
Josh Anderson:And so then it was quick and easy for them to like get in a room virtual
Josh Anderson:or not, and say like, all right, so here here's, what's driving me crazy.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:How about we tackle it like this?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And then we move forward as a group and we're in a much better spot.
Josh Anderson:So it's a good group of people that I'm working with that has enabled that.
Josh Anderson:To happen to both say like, Hey dude, chill out.
Josh Anderson:And then let's work through this.
Josh Anderson:As we move
Bob:forward, as you're talking, it reminds me, you you've always
Bob:impressed me as a feedback or a feedback receiver artist.
Bob:Mm-hmm right from when I first met you, which is rare in a lot of
Bob:people and rare in leaders and rare.
Bob:But, but that's, I think that's doing you a good service here.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:So it's not just them giving you the feedback.
Bob:It's you being receptive to it, not getting defense.
Bob:And then doing something with it.
Bob:Right, right.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:I can, I can see that really like, sort of that's a key and,
Bob:and, and that would be rare.
Bob:A lot of people struggle with getting that kind of feedback, being receptive
Bob:to it, taking action on it and
Josh Anderson:stuff.
Josh Anderson:And the sad part is some people don't get the feedback.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Which again, is the thing that we just talked about about how, how great it
Josh Anderson:is that they quickly put it out there.
Bob:Yeah, yeah.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Is it, is it a cake walk for you?
Bob:And so I would say, you know, Josh you're like this super
Bob:coach super leader, super AIST.
Bob:I mean, you could, you could probably do this in your sleep, give you 52 teams.
Bob:Um, and you could scrum master a hundred mm-hmm . And so what I'm looking for
Bob:I'm exaggerating clearly, but is, you know, is it a cake walk or what are
Bob:the challenges, you know, that, that you're uncovering that make you, uh, it
Josh Anderson:it's.
Josh Anderson:in the role.
Josh Anderson:Not so, yeah, yeah, yes.
Josh Anderson:With the company, but in the role.
Josh Anderson:Yeah, with the, with the scrum master role, it's definitely easy.
Josh Anderson:Um, as I talked about, there are things that have come up that I know in the
Josh Anderson:past and engineers raised something.
Josh Anderson:I didn't have a good response and I stumbled and fumbled through it.
Josh Anderson:And now I've stumbled and fumbled through enough that, uh, whatever
Josh Anderson:they threw at me, I've, I've had a chance to Wade through it.
Josh Anderson:So.
Josh Anderson:that is certainly easier.
Josh Anderson:What I find myself doing is I'm much more patient than I
Josh Anderson:used to be as a scrum master.
Josh Anderson:I am much more capable of getting the snowball rolling and watching
Josh Anderson:it grow and get bigger and bigger.
Josh Anderson:And if I, and if it's starting to go off into a ditch, I can give it
Josh Anderson:a little bit of a tap and being a lot more comfortable with that than.
Josh Anderson:Was when I first started the role, because I felt like I really needed
Josh Anderson:to drive this change quickly and that ultimately created resistance because
Josh Anderson:I was trying to force people yeah.
Josh Anderson:Into stuff.
Josh Anderson:And now, again, the thing that I've worked on in the past, if you listen for
Josh Anderson:quite a while, is trying to get better at celebrating the little wins along the way.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And I'm capable of seeing those more and actually laying them out in front
Josh Anderson:of me, like, okay, so this is gonna.
Josh Anderson:Then this is gonna happen, then this is gonna happen.
Josh Anderson:And you know, we'll go off course a couple times.
Josh Anderson:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Anderson:But at least like to know in my brain, like, all right.
Josh Anderson:So the next checkpoint for us yeah.
Josh Anderson:Is when the team does this, without me saying a thing and just like
Josh Anderson:letting it happen over a sprint or two, instead of trying to force
Josh Anderson:it in that refinement meeting,
Bob:you've inspired me a little bit here from the point of view
Bob:of, and I'm gonna try to find it.
Bob:It's like be a scrum master.
Bob:You get abstracted.
Bob:Like, cuz I have gotten abstracted, there's this notion of getting the weeds
Bob:with someone and do it for a little bit.
Bob:Not that I'm gonna be a permanent scrum master.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:But like doing a three month St with a real team, like with real work.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Like I interact with real teams as a coach, but I'm not with the team.
Bob:Mm-hmm like, I, you know, and I don't, I'm not meeting them where they are
Bob:like, like what resonates with me is you have to meet the team where they.
Bob:You have to, you have a privilege of being Josh Anderson mm-hmm right.
Bob:And typically you just like, make things happen.
Bob:Now you have to sort of pull that down, meet them where they are be
Bob:patient and, and, and do whatever incremental change you can.
Bob:Um, that would be a good exercise for any coach.
Bob:I think, to go get in the weeds every once in a.
Bob:Uh, and, and sort of throttle your head back and, and understand what it's like,
Bob:like what it's like in the real world.
Bob:I, and that's sort of asking that I might that's, what's resonating with
Bob:me, but sometimes we can get abstract.
Bob:I feel like I can get mm-hmm maybe you don't, but I feel like I can, I
Bob:get abstracted from the real world, not too much, but enough, but I'm
Bob:talking about like the, in the trenches teams and the craft they
Bob:have to go through and the hard.
Bob:And the history that they've done.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:That that's that's um, that's been really healthy for me is to
Josh Anderson:get another checkpoint on where.
Josh Anderson:teammates are when they get dropped in an agile shop.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Because there's employees of the company, there's a couple contracting companies
Josh Anderson:that are mixed in it's a sizable company.
Josh Anderson:Exactly.
Josh Anderson:And so people end up on teams and they have their own, like baggage
Josh Anderson:is not the right word, but they have their own path to here.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:So they have been through things and they have expectations
Josh Anderson:of how agile our scrum works.
Josh Anderson:And this is what we do.
Josh Anderson:This is how we communicate all those things.
Josh Anderson:Seeing that and understanding what folks have lived
Bob:through, see that's the value for music or I'm also recommending
Bob:every coach, like do that.
Bob:It's almost like a mini reboot camp or something.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Uh, I'm sure my eyes would be widened and it, and it would change.
Bob:It would give me another lens.
Bob:Another sort of perspective.
Bob:Mm-hmm in my coaching.
Bob:I go in again, I'm not bad, I'm not good, but I go in, I'm
Bob:like you, I want to affect.
Bob:And I'm, I'm being incentive to do that, but I want to affect global change.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:And, and I, even though I know, you know, I try to meet
Bob:people, try to do relationships.
Bob:It's not the same.
Bob:And I think that would be a great learning experience.
Bob:Anything else you wanna share about it for?
Bob:I mean, the audio I want to.
Bob:You know, scrum master is anyone who's in a scrum master role,
Bob:listening, something you could share.
Josh Anderson:One of the things that has enabled me to quickly
Josh Anderson:gain trust, ah, with the engineers.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:As a person coming out of the woodwork, like, no, they have no idea.
Josh Anderson:He dropped you in.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:There's like, Hey, here's this guy, Josh, he's your scrub master now.
Josh Anderson:Go get 'em exactly.
Josh Anderson:Um, is just a willingness and capability to build that rapport with them.
Josh Anderson:And.
Josh Anderson:my technical background has helped because there have been times where in refinement
Josh Anderson:or something we're talking through.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And I was like, well, why don't we just use a queuing system?
Josh Anderson:Right.
Josh Anderson:Like that's what it's built for, you know?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Things like that.
Josh Anderson:And so then I, I get in the dialogue, you get some credibility.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:But, but, but not a driving force and a decision.
Josh Anderson:Creating options and allowing people to think about things.
Josh Anderson:Um, and then just a willingness to be the goofy guy, right.
Josh Anderson:And to throw stuff out.
Josh Anderson:And like, we actually had a, um, we had a team lunch, you know,
Josh Anderson:and that was not anything that they've ever done before, but.
Josh Anderson:most engineering teams, you get 'em together on zoom for a lunch
Josh Anderson:they're gonna eat, and they're gonna want to get back to writing code.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:You know, it's like, this is a hassle, all it, you know, this is the thing.
Josh Anderson:So working to have those icebreaker discussions and just trying to get them
Josh Anderson:to loosen up, which many of you do that?
Josh Anderson:Um, but really investing in it, not severe to it, not, not having it be.
Josh Anderson:Um, Hey, I gave it one shot.
Josh Anderson:We were in a meeting.
Josh Anderson:I went five minutes.
Josh Anderson:I could see their eyes were rolling and I gave up yeah, right of
Josh Anderson:really pushing through that, uh, because you'll get the grumbling
Josh Anderson:and the eye rolls and all of that.
Josh Anderson:But you know, the value of creating the connection because
Josh Anderson:all of these individuals will likely, never meet each other in.
Josh Anderson:. So how, how do you begin to endear folks with that?
Josh Anderson:Uh,
Bob:what I'm hearing is like relationship building.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Investing in relationship building, um, as a leader, I mean, you can do that,
Bob:but you, you are in the power role.
Bob:Mm-hmm . So they have to build relationships with you right.
Bob:More than you have to build, you have to be open to it.
Bob:So this has flipped that onto you.
Bob:Right?
Bob:Right.
Bob:You've had to be the seeker of relationship building.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:I
Josh Anderson:technically have no power.
Bob:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bob:You have no that's that would be creepy.
Bob:Scary for me.
Bob:I mean, typically.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:And now I, I don't have leadership.
Bob:You've been in leadership roles, but I have gravitas power.
Bob:Right.
Bob:Mm-hmm I, I have, mm.
Bob:Like the history that I bring, my, my experience that I bring and,
Bob:but that's power that's privilege.
Bob:Um, that's, that's part of the scrum master for me.
Bob:I gotta find a place where no one knows about me.
Bob:All I am is an old guy.
Bob:I, I, you know, I need a little funds to get to retirement.
Bob:Please take me on is a scrum master.
Bob:That would be a.
Bob:Come up.
Bob:I mean, that's a, yeah, that's a great landscape for me to try that.
Bob:I'm sure I would learn some rich lessons.
Josh Anderson:You could come and work for me.
Josh Anderson:I'll keep you in your place.
Bob:Would you put, would, would you take me under your
Josh Anderson:wing?
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:And I would put you in your place and oh, I, yeah, I have no doubt.
Josh Anderson:I don't care how many books you've written, sir.
Josh Anderson:I
Bob:that's.
Bob:I know you don't even have to say it, right.
Bob:Can I get you a cup of coffee, John?
Bob:Yes,
Josh Anderson:please.
Josh Anderson:Yeah, please.
Josh Anderson:I don't even like coffee, but go and get
Bob:one.
Bob:If I, if I can get it for you, you you'll let it sit there in front of you.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Quickly, uh, anywhere else we want to go with this episode.
Josh Anderson:What do you think?
Josh Anderson:No, I, to me, this is something that we've talked about in
Josh Anderson:the past about the value of.
Josh Anderson:Living in the trenches.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:On a regular basis.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:Um, I was in a situation where I needed what I could get
Josh Anderson:as quickly as I could get.
Josh Anderson:I have some friends in the space like, Hey, cool.
Josh Anderson:We can get you in this.
Josh Anderson:Yep.
Josh Anderson:It's not what you've been doing, but we know you'll do great.
Josh Anderson:Yep.
Josh Anderson:Just.
Josh Anderson:And we know you need a paycheck, right?
Josh Anderson:So like, can you do this?
Josh Anderson:And I said, absolutely.
Josh Anderson:Um, so I was lucky enough to be in a spot where this could happen.
Josh Anderson:It wasn't an intentional move for me, but it is something that as
Josh Anderson:we're talking, it's something that probably should be intentional for.
Josh Anderson:Leaders across the board because you do lose
Bob:touch.
Bob:Yep.
Bob:I'm thinking years ago I would send my, I mean, I would join a team mm-hmm , you
Bob:know, we might lose a scrum master or something, or we might grow by a team.
Bob:So I, we would need someone to fill in temporarily and I would do that.
Bob:and I haven't done that in years.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:And it would, it really matured me.
Bob:It really grew me and I have, I have, I have a lot of chops, but
Bob:it just gave me a, a perspective.
Bob:It gave it brought me close.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:To proximity.
Bob:And my takeaway for this episode seriously, is I'm gonna look
Bob:for an opportunity not too long.
Bob:Yeah.
Bob:Cuz I, I, but, but I wanna look for an opportunity where I can, where
Bob:I can join a team or something, uh, and just do work, do honest.
Bob:Scrum master work at the lowest level of serve team
Josh Anderson:and see what I learned.
Josh Anderson:And, and the thing that you need the most is for that team to give you feedback.
Josh Anderson:Like I was given.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:We, we would ask that if you're a member of that team that you don't clam up yeah.
Josh Anderson:That maybe you even lean in more.
Josh Anderson:Yeah.
Josh Anderson:That's, that's good advice.
Josh Anderson:All of those things.
Josh Anderson:So if you're not a leader and you're listening to, to this and
Josh Anderson:maybe your leader does listen to it and they wanna try it.
Josh Anderson:The way you can help yourself by helping this person is providing that feedback.
Josh Anderson:If they choose to go this path, because that feedback you give will benefit you
Josh Anderson:over time, as eyes are opened or Reed.
Josh Anderson:And now that's going to reenable some of the change that you maybe have been
Josh Anderson:trying to drive or have been asking for.
Josh Anderson:Yeah, didn't happen, but.
Josh Anderson:It's seen and felt, and there's a new connection with you and the team.
Josh Anderson:So now there's a greater relationship which equals trust.
Josh Anderson:So now when you come to that leader and say, Hey, I think we should do this.
Josh Anderson:It's more like, yep.
Josh Anderson:Let's do it.
Josh Anderson:I've been there.
Josh Anderson:I've seen it.
Josh Anderson:You're right.
Josh Anderson:I trust you.
Josh Anderson:Here we go.
Josh Anderson:Yep.
Bob:All let's take a forward.
Bob:Can you let's do it.
Bob:All right.
Bob:For beautiful.
Bob:Downtown C North Carolina.
Bob:I'm Bob Galen.
Bob:And I'm Josh Anderson
Josh Anderson:shake and bake.
Bob:Just
Josh Anderson:do that again.
Josh Anderson:Shake.
Josh Anderson:Okay.
Josh Anderson:Yeah, we kind of missed in bake.
Josh Anderson:Take care of y'all.
Josh Anderson:We had a whiff.
