Shownotes
From political strategies to WWII tales, we've got it all covered!
**Key Takeaways:**
**Political Savvy:** We dissect Donald Trump's strategic positioning on abortion and other hot-button issues, and explore how early voting trends in Pennsylvania could shape the political landscape.
**Education Policies:** Dive into the implications of Ohio's new House Bills on cell phone usage and religious instruction in schools, and what it means for the balance between First Amendment rights and local control.
** Family & Society:** Unpack the importance of traditional family structures on child development, and how parental involvement in adult children's lives can impact independence and competence.
Don't miss out on this insightful discussion! Listen now and stay informed with Common Sense Ohio.
Common Sense Moments
15:23 First Amendment protects freedom of religion, conflicts.
17:49 Debate over teaching creationism and evolution in schools.
23:12 Book on societal impact and single mother households.
34:40 Review conditions before taking legal action.
39:21 Biden claims executive privilege in deposition tapes.
46:53 Trump takes moderate stance on abortion.
52:26 Brad Smith, a law professor and former head of the Federal Elections Commission, may be a witness in the Alvin Bragg case.
55:06 Heritage Foundation finds biased voter registration tactics.
01:01:50 Debate on Facebook about diversity and racism.
01:06:58 Civil war in New Caledonia sparks chaos.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Transcripts
Alright. Here we are, May 17, 2024. The year is flying by at an alarming rate. I am, you know, I think the older you get, the faster the days go. Anyway, commonsenseohio@commonsenseohioshow.com, where you can find all sorts of Common Sense Ohio information, such as old episodes, such as blogs, Norms, and Brett's, mine, Big Goose Egg, but it's there. We have other resources, like, if you don't know how to subscribe to podcast, I'm that would be a difficult one for me to figure out, I confess, and we make it easy. You just go click. You can go to our social media sites directly from commonsenseohioshow.com.
Steve Palmer [:So the idea is to make it easy to love what you love, that is commonsenseohioshow.com. We are brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting. What the heck is Harper Plus Accounting? Well, you guessed it. They are accountants, and they supply all sorts of your account or they will provide all sorts of resources for your accounting needs. They'll help you with your tax returns. They've got a whole division now devoted to the transactional side of things. If you've got a more complex set of issues as do I, they help you with the consulting side too, so you know what you owe, when you owe it, and you will never be surprised. So, if you think if you've been going to the guy flipping signs on a corner, you have little spinner signs and throwing them up in the air, you're probably going to the wrong place.
Steve Palmer [:Harper Plus County will take care of you.
Brett Johnson [:That that finger quotes, probably. Probably.
Steve Palmer [:Probably. Probably. Going in the wrong place. So, you know, as a kid, I one of my memories is, going to the basement. This is long before we had screens, and in fact, when we we didn't even have remote controls, and where I grew up, we didn't even have cable TV. I would have to go in the basement and pass the time doing things, and I was rather mechanical. And I would work on balsa wood airplanes, And I sort of learned world war 2 airplanes working on balsa wood airplanes, where I would sneak the set of X ACTO knives out and play with the dangerous stuff. Imagine that.
Steve Palmer [:Like, you're a 7 year old player or 8. I don't know how old I was. Probably under 10.
Brett Johnson [:Amazing. You lived through
Steve Palmer [:Right. I've got some scars to prove it, but I I lived through it. I learned how to use an airbrush and, you know, remember that the stuff you put on those things, dope. Yeah. Like, you you were into a different kind of dope. Yeah. Different kind of dope. They used to call it dope.
Brett Johnson [:Forgot they did yeah. That's right. They used to call it that. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. They still do.
Steve Palmer [:You would put tissue paper on on the balsa wood frame, and you would use dope to help shrink it. Now they use you know what they use now? They I did one recently or not recently. I did one with my son's
Norm Murdock [:Elmer's glue.
Steve Palmer [:Elmer's glue. Yeah. And it it worked fine.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. A little less toxic.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It didn't smell like anything. I I was probably down there getting high. Well, the reason I'm bringing this up is because May 17th. Now this is a little bit disputed because one website says one thing, the other says another. But I'm going with the one that says May 17, the 25th mission of the Memphis Belle, a b a Boeing B 17 Flying Fortress. 25 missions. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It was the first
Norm Murdock [:meant something back then.
Steve Palmer [:It meant you were done. So I think if you're on the plane as part of the crew, you flew 25, you get to go home. Well, the Memphis Bell, they finished their 20 5. They sent them home to sell war bonds, and it was, like, a big celebrated thing.
Norm Murdock [:They were the 1st crew to do 25
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And survive it.
Steve Palmer [:Well well, that's the trick. Right?
Norm Murdock [:That's the trick.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:The survival rate was around 60% of the b 17 crews at that time in the war did not get to 25 missions.
Steve Palmer [:No. Not the and the United States had so anybody who who thinks that we're this horrible, awful place
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Understand this. The Brits flew at night. We flew during the day.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And now why does that matter? Because they could see us. They being the German shooting air or flak at us and and with their fighter pilots, the Messerschmitts
Norm Murdock [:Yep.
Steve Palmer [:Tracking. So it would happen that we didn't have Europe yet.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yep.
Steve Palmer [:Meaning, we we didn't we didn't have air force bases yet in Europe. So the escorts, our fighter escorts, would last only so far.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. We had where all our bases were in England
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Is what is what you're saying.
Steve Palmer [:And and the fighter escorts, and I I suppose those were the,
Norm Murdock [:They had to peel off. They could
Steve Palmer [:not go all the way
Norm Murdock [:into They
Steve Palmer [:run out of fuel. Yeah. So they couldn't they couldn't be with the bombers to protect them all the way to Germany. So, you know, once you get over the continent, these guys are sitting ducks.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. And They could they could they could escort them basically to France and and and get, you know, pretty much, you know, right up to the German border, and then they had to turn around. So so, like, when we were bombing Hamburg or Schweinfurt or any of these other targets, until the p fifty one with the with the boom tanks came up.
Steve Palmer [:Boom tanks that they would drop on the way.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. We had those guys had nothing.
Steve Palmer [:Can you imagine?
Norm Murdock [:And and the they are at one point, we're sending up the red tail, red tail, the the Tuskegee Airmen from Italy to to to give them some kind of protection.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:But, I mean, that was much later in the war, though. But, you know, the 8th air force lost something like and, the stat is is very loose, folks, but something like 80,000 airmen died, in in our bombing and fighter missions in World War 2 just in Europe. And on each of these b seventeens, like you're talking about, Steve, the Memphis Belle, there were 10 people in the crew. So when one plane went down, you lost 10 guys.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yep. And, like, the survival rate was
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it it was one of the most dangerous jobs Right. In the war.
Norm Murdock [:So my, grandfather trained pilots, civilian pilots. And many of those pilots, those same boys, joined the Army Air Corps. And when they came home from the war, they told my my grandfather stories about when they were captured by civilians and marched through the streets that, there were incidents where guys not just got heckled, but, you know, pitchforked. Guys actually got killed just because you can imagine, you know, these are the same guys that just bombed you. And now they're walking through the street. Right?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. No. It's it's dangerous stuff.
Norm Murdock [:It was. Yeah. So it wasn't necessarily a nice thing when you got shot down. They took you to, STALOG 13 with Colonel Klink.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Yeah. Well, if you had Hogan there Yeah. Or even before that was based on what, The Great Escape, I think, that he had, which is a great movie.
Norm Murdock [:It wasn't all candy and fun, but Yeah. You know, anyway.
Steve Palmer [:Well, at any rate, the Memphis Belle was named after Robert k Morgan, who was the captain.
Norm Murdock [:Well, his girlfriend.
Steve Palmer [:His girlfriend was well, after his after Margaret Polk, his girlfriend. And they originally were apparently, he was originally gonna call it, the bomber little one because that was his little pet name for his his his, sweetheart. But then they watched a movie, and I just learned all this off Wikipedia, so by the way. Yeah. I I I'm not that much of a truerite. But, they had watched a movie, and, in the movie was a riverboat named Memphis Belle. And the movie was called Lady for a Night. And, they they named it Memphis Bell.
Steve Palmer [:So we took a photo of the entire crew. They said, yes, that's what we're gonna name it. They enlisted an artist from Esquire Magazine who drew up the pinup, And, then I guess there was an artist in the squadron who would then duplicate that. And anybody who's seen those old bombers Yeah. They've got that art on it. Now if you wanna see the Memphis Belle
Norm Murdock [:Vargas girls, I think they called them back. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And if you wanna see the Memphis Belle right here in
Norm Murdock [:Ohio. Yeah. And at at the at the right path, you you US Air Force Museum.
Steve Palmer [:Free, by the way, to go into the Free. Pad.
Norm Murdock [:And and the the mighty 8th Air Force Museum's in Savannah, Georgia. You can you know, it's right off the expressway. Yep. Like, you could see it from the expressway if you're going to Florida.
Steve Palmer [:I went to the Wright Patt Museum a few years ago. I I took the boys there. You know, they were both in a probably still in a junior high, but, a a great experience.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, You almost wanna dedicate a couple of days.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. 2 days. Really, really good. You're gonna watch all the interactive stuff.
Brett Johnson [:Just to absorb. Right. Because there's so and well, if nothing else reading the the as you walk in the very beginning reading the history of flight. Yep. Spend an hour reading that.
Norm Murdock [:It's incredible.
Steve Palmer [:Take your time. And it's free. Take your time. It's free. I think you might have to buy tickets for the movie. I can't remember. But to get the Yeah. You do.
Norm Murdock [:You do. And and they have a cafeteria, you know, you you can eat lunch there and it it's very cool.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. But I remember building a B 17 Flying Fortress out of balsa wood and
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Getting high on the fumes. And, here I am talking about it. I survived. Mhmm. I didn't cut my hand off with an X ACTO knife. I, I probably made a mess with the airbrush and the painting and all that but, you know, I learned a thing or 2. So
Norm Murdock [:Romantically speaking, we should clarify because I know the ladies in our audience would be interested, in particular. I think many would be. After all, they they read those romance novels on the beach. Come on, ladies. Work with me here. The, but Robert Morgan and, the Memphis Belle, they did not get married. They married other people after the war. And like many relationships Was
Steve Palmer [:she a cheater?
Norm Murdock [:I just Does
Steve Palmer [:she cheat on him during the war?
Norm Murdock [:Just this I'm just kidding. You know, the strain.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Right. I mean, a lot of these these were young guys. I mean, these were these were young, young, young people. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It's a So they they went their separate ways, but they remained friends. And when when the Memphis Belle right after the war was on display in Memphis, it was an outdoor bird, you know, like somewhere in the city, you know, on a platform. And when they dedicated it, she was there and he was there.
Steve Palmer [:So Oh, that's nice.
Norm Murdock [:So they maintained their friendship.
Steve Palmer [:That's neat.
Norm Murdock [:It's a cool story.
Steve Palmer [:It's, you know, and you wonder what these guys thought. Like, their home after 25 missions look, I I I did not serve, but I've talked to many, many who have. And it's, like, there there's some guilt with that. You know, they're home and and selling war bonds. Like, wait a minute. Everybody else is still over there. Should I still be over there? So if you ever talk to a serviceman or woman, I think there's that general feeling like, why am I safe and others aren't?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I'll tell a little quick story because it's it's it's it's it's mind boggling to me. But, when I was, the executive director of the Ohio Bus Association, we would we would hold events for promoting Ohio tourism. And we had this World War 2 8th Air Force, a group come in and scout Ohio. And, of course, they had a meeting or they had a reunion out there at Wright Patt. And this guy told me in a quiet moment because he knew I how much I respected and and revered, our veterans. And, you know, I told him that. And over a course of 3 or 3 or 4 days, we became friends.
Norm Murdock [:And he said, he watched his best friend, his b 17 blown out of the air, like, in pieces from ACAC, just, you know, from the German eighty eights. Just blown out of the air. And, the the guy, you know, he was married. And this guy, his best friend, went to go meet the widow, and then they struck up a relationship and he married her.
Steve Palmer [:Really?
Norm Murdock [:And and she was there with him when I met him, you know, doing this tour. And I'm sure he's he's passed by now. But, that's a kind of thing that, like, we we I can't even imagine that.
Steve Palmer [:No. You're right.
Norm Murdock [:Right? No. There's your best friend, like, your best buddy. And you're you're looking out the porthole of your airplane Thanks, John. Over any boom. Just disintegrated. Just gone. And then you you literally go to, you know, to to give your regrets and, you know, strike up a friendship and end up married to the guy's wife.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's,
Norm Murdock [:And I'm sure they both loved him. Right? Oh, I'm sure. Right. I mean, that's very complex stuff.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Yeah. Well, and then imagine watching that happen and then thinking, anytime it's mine. You know, it happens to me. It's like, can you imagine?
Norm Murdock [:No. Yeah. I can't.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. But anyway, so off to the races we are.
Norm Murdock [:Good stuff, Steve. So we talked last week about House Bill 250. DeWine signed it a couple days ago. And this was the bill that was unanimously passed by the house and the senate here in Ohio. And what it requires and and the school districts are now instructed to create a policy, a cell phone policy, that suits their district. So there's no blanket ban. There's no terms of what it has to include. But the legislature and the governor are saying to the districts, you gotta have a policy.
Norm Murdock [:You can't just ignore the issue. And so the Department of Education is instructed to create a model policy for districts that maybe just wanna adopt a canned policy. So they're gonna come up with some kind of model.
Steve Palmer [:So it's a law that does nothing?
Brett Johnson [:I would that's where my
Norm Murdock [:mind went to. It's
Brett Johnson [:like, you gotta
Steve Palmer [:do this. Says do something.
Brett Johnson [:You gotta do something. I'm actually gonna tell you what to do.
Norm Murdock [:I'm in I'm in favor of laws that that redound to local control. And this one does. It reads
Brett Johnson [:It's yeah.
Norm Murdock [:It's better. It would be Yeah. A one size fits all.
Steve Palmer [:I would rather have it this way Yeah. Than the law itself creating a policy. Exactly. But if the school district thinks it needs a policy, then inevitably, it will create one.
Brett Johnson [:It will create its own and probably And
Steve Palmer [:probably do. They don't need some governor or the legislator or the general assembly here in Ohio rather to tell them, make a policy.
Norm Murdock [:Well, evidently, some of them did because we we have 800
Steve Palmer [:Evidently, the legislative branch thought some of them did. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Well, we have 800 school districts, and I and and I imagine,
Steve Palmer [:Sounds good.
Norm Murdock [:Not all of them do.
Steve Palmer [:Sounds like they're doing something when they're really doing nothing.
Norm Murdock [:Well, let's talk about another school. This is a very similar kind of thing except it involves religious instruction. So there is a bill percolating. It's only had one hearing and it's only in the house so far, House Bill 445. And this would require school boards they again, we have 800 roughly school boards of various kinds, to create a release time policy for religious instruction. Now currently, Ohio law says they may do this, and the US Supreme Court has upheld timed release, religious instruction. And what this would have to include are 3 elements. So these this this is in current law and it's in the legislation.
Norm Murdock [:It the instruction has to be off school property. It has to be privately funded, and the parents have to okay it. So, it what it is is basically you're dismissed, you know, at 2 o'clock, and, you're you're released here from the school grounds. And then, you know, parents or a bus or whatever takes you to a different facility, for, religious instruction. And I guess the argument for this is that it doesn't create it's so it's any religion. Right? And it doesn't so it doesn't establish a religion. But it also does protect the unfettered right of Americans to, practice their religion. And that's a First Amendment guarantee also.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So you're talking about the First Amendment. There's 2 parts of well, there's lots of parts of the First Amendment, but the one we're talking about is the freedom of religion, and there's 2 components to that part of the first amendment. 1 is the establishment clause, which is the government shall not establish a religion, and the other is the government shall not impede the free exercise of religion. And these in are are seemingly in apparent conflict. At least, if you go turn the clock back to the eighties, and you knew who was the sort of the purveyor of a lot of this a lot of these decisions was old was, Sandra Day O'Connor. She sort of took the pen for a lot of these decisions. There's some I a lot I don't agree with.
Steve Palmer [:You know, I don't think the 2 are in as much conflict as as they seem. Yeah. I I think people misinterpret the establishment clause I agree. Quite a bit. Quite a bit. I'm not gonna go down the rabbit hole of exploring this. But, you know, I I think the founders were worried about King George and an established religion, which at that point was a denomination of Christianity, whatever it would be. They did they didn't want to do that.
Steve Palmer [:And and the corollary was you you the government can't stop you from exercising a religion. I think having, exposure to religion in schools does not violate the establishment clause despite what Supreme Court cases have have said, you know, it would it it's I I think that's a that's a stretch. But anyway, we'll we'll deal with that.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. This is a workaround. So rather than doing it in school, get it off the property and just so so what they are changing in current Ohio code is rather than saying school boards may develop a release time policy for religious instruction, Now they shall develop a policy. Yeah. So there because what has happened is, they according to the 2 legislative sponsors is they've had parents come to them and say, hey, my district has not created a policy and we have a minister or some nondenominational or a rabbi or whoever. We have somebody who wants to create an off-site religious instruction, but our board has not developed a policy.
Steve Palmer [:Well, this this makes me you know, it's interesting. So going back to the establishment clause a little bit. I I did a dive into this at one point because I was in an argument with somebody. I went and did some research and, you know, this individual was very, very upset of any what was very, very, oppositional to any instruction that could even be remotely related to Christianity.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:For instance, if you didn't teach if if you taught creation as an alternative to evolution, which as it turns out, evolution is getting debunked. It's closer and closer every day. I mean, it's like, there are components of evolution that that sort of line up and there are others that don't. Yeah. And again, if you if you go back and and look at the math at the time it would take for evolution, that's that's there's some issues with it. But, you know, this this person's position was you you can't teach anything contrary to evolution because that is by default Christianity. And I said, well, what if you just teach, like, creationism without a Christian God, any God or any sort what if it's aliens who have superhuman, power and that we're just an experiment? Nope. Nope.
Steve Palmer [:Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.
Norm Murdock [:And in fact, Steve, in public schools, we do teach a religion or 2. Certainly the Greco Roman, religion And is thoroughly taught. We And we saw all about Zeus.
Steve Palmer [:So in a religion in a religion class, she this person was cool with teaching Islam, but not Christianity.
Norm Murdock [:There you go.
Steve Palmer [:And this this reminds me of, you know, the scandal scandal is not the right word story, rather going around. Harrison Butker, who was the kicker for the Kansas
Norm Murdock [:City Chiefs.
Steve Palmer [:Great story.
Norm Murdock [:Great
Steve Palmer [:story. Nobody ever knew this guy. I didn't know who the hell a kicker for the Kansas City Chiefs was.
Norm Murdock [:Well, he won the Super Bowl for
Steve Palmer [:him, just
Norm Murdock [:in case. Sure. No. Great.
Steve Palmer [:Fine. But I still didn't know who
Norm Murdock [:he was.
Brett Johnson [:He was
Steve Palmer [:just a kicker. Right. But, you know, he's a he's a devout Catholic, apparently, and he was giving a speech at a Catholic school, and he was talking about traditional value. It wasn't even it was Catholic values for sure, but it wasn't even necessarily Christian value. But you would say traditional values. Like, the most values, like, the most important thing is to be a parent for both a man and a woman. The most important thing. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It's like he he really, He mainly talked about family
Norm Murdock [:family values.
Steve Palmer [:Family values.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly right. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And he this is like you would think that we have unleashed
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Mustard gas into society because the the opposition to this is insane. Yeah. But you know what?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. He's Hitler now.
Steve Palmer [:It's the minority position that is making the loudest noise. Apparently, like, his social media is off the charts now. He's got more likes and followers than ever.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, was it because the quote of the best job is to be a mom?
Steve Palmer [:The most important thing a woman can do is be a mom.
Brett Johnson [:And, of course, you if you take that line out of context out of the whole speech, of course, it sounds
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:You can
Steve Palmer [:take it out of
Brett Johnson [:con You know what I mean?
Steve Palmer [:And even then, I don't think it sounds that bad. But you can see you can see why they would take it
Brett Johnson [:right now. That's what I mean.
Norm Murdock [:So the number one selling, NFL jersey right now
Steve Palmer [:is his
Norm Murdock [:is his. Yeah. Of course.
Steve Palmer [:So but so there is hope. Right? And I think there is this notion that that, like, these even the the kid, the students protesting at schools, by and large, they do not represent a minor a majority No. Of the position at the school or in the country for that matter. Yeah. It's like, and and some of the response is coming. You know? So I think our country are you know, we've talked about this before. I think we have this tendency to remain quiet and just sort of mind our own business Right. In until it's it's too much.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And it's to the point where it's too much, and the presidential polls are showing this. Yeah. The backlash, like, what we're talking about with, Butker here is his name. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yep. Butker. Mhmm. Harrison Butker.
Steve Palmer [:Harrison Butker. Like, the backlash on this in his jersey. It's like people are starting to say, enough. Yeah. Enough. There's nothing wrong with this.
Norm Murdock [:The Virginia moms that got Glenn Youngkin elected is is another great example. It's like, you guys are your books and your reading assignments are straight up porn. And, you know, and and and they're diabolical messages for little kids.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And and the mothers show up at these school boards, and the FBI calls them domestic terrorists. I mean, it's it's on so people have had enough. Yep. They've been pushed up to the wall. They've been quiet as this wokeism has creeped into our culture. And now it's so off the wall.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It started as, like, yeah, whatever. We can say this, or we'll just act like this. But now now it's, like, it's permeated our lives in a way that it's it's it's intolerable.
Norm Murdock [:It's intolerable.
Steve Palmer [:It is it has it has become intolerable in a lot of ways, and I think this is one of them. It's like, we should be able to say that and and look, anybody who argues with this is just ignoring facts.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:If you want successful kids, raise them in a stable, fundamentally traditional household with a mom and a dad. Right?
Norm Murdock [:It it's All that J. Nah. It says that's the best for kids.
Steve Palmer [:And there's there's a study, a famous one out of the Brookings Institute, which is a left leaning. I mean, they're leftists.
Norm Murdock [:Sure.
Steve Palmer [:And they said, look, if you want don't have if you wanna have, get out of poverty level, don't have a kid out of wedlock. Right? Finish high school and don't have a kid until or, and get a job.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. These
Steve Palmer [:It's it's very simple.
Norm Murdock [:These theses that you're mentioning are not new. Daniel Moynihan, senator Moynihan wrote a seminal, book about how the
Steve Palmer [:This this is back in the, the the Great Society.
Norm Murdock [:It was on this. So he was one of the architects of the Great Society for LBJ. He worked in the White House. He was on l LBJ staff. And he had the courage later in his career to write a book and come out against his own policies Yep. Saying, we're we have replaced fathers in urban and destitute home settings with uncle Sam.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And the kids are running wild because of it.
Steve Palmer [:And the book we you and I both read this. What was it? Amity it was Amity Shae wrote the book? I can't remember. But it's a it's a great book on this, and it sort of takes this it sort of tracks, the great society and its impact. And Thomas Sowell has done some studies on this too, which which is, like, you can see the decline. It doesn't matter what race, but it happened to both black and the white Oh, sure. Cultures. Of course. The the instances of single mother households skyrocketed.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And corresponding as a corollary, the the crime rate went up, poverty went up, unemployment went up. It just it just ruined.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. Whether you're talking about white Appalachia or whether you're talking about black Harlem. It's the same result.
Steve Palmer [:The same result. Right. In a statistic I look, I'm I'm guessing here. So if somebody's gonna quote me since we have so many listeners. Yeah. But we we have, statistically, it correlated. So there were more, the the the things they were looking at, such as, like, unemployment. Mhmm.
Steve Palmer [:There were there were more unemployed black families than white at the time. But when after the great society policies went in place, those numbers both increased Oh, yeah. At a parallel rate. Right. So it, you know, and up until that time, as I recall, the the unemployment in the black community was 0 was, narrowing. The gap was narrowing Yeah. Between that and white. So there was equalization was coming.
Norm Murdock [:And Steve, you know, since then
Steve Palmer [:And they they threw this acid into the fire.
Norm Murdock [:You know, since then, all the other metrics, teen pregnancies, you know, people getting a felony arrest. Yeah. All of this stuff for young people. It all spiraled out of control at the time that really men and fathers were dismissed as essential. And, you know, the world according to GARP and all this stuff, where basically, you don't need a man. You can go to a sperm bank and get that. Yeah. Oh, wait.
Norm Murdock [:Well, hold on. We it's not just men providing a seed of sperm. It's them being involved with that child for the next 30, 40, 50 years as they mature.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it it would be equally absurd to say that children don't need their mothers.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly right.
Steve Palmer [:That it's an equally absurd position. Right. Right? So don't this works both ways folks. I mean, this is not a
Brett Johnson [:On the father's a role model for the daughter and the son as well too.
Norm Murdock [:Yep. Should be absolutely.
Steve Palmer [:Sure. Feminine and masculine, and we all have we all have to understand the
Brett Johnson [:role of what we are in society.
Steve Palmer [:And I've always simplified it this way. It's like, how is a mother and I'm not saying it's impossible, but how is a mother equally equipped to teach a boy how to be a man than a father.
Brett Johnson [:It's it's much more difficult. Because It
Steve Palmer [:it can be she doesn't
Norm Murdock [:know what it's
Brett Johnson [:like. Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. And
Steve Palmer [:how am I to teach a young woman Right. To be her a girl how to how to grow up and be a functional woman. There's no way. I can do my best. Yeah. But I I I don't have the perspective. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Well, just can you imagine? Because I can't. I can't imagine not having a wife and having a daughter and that daughter having her first menstrual experience as a young teen girl. What am I gonna say as a father? Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You're gonna call up your friend and say
Norm Murdock [:I don't I don't know nothing
Steve Palmer [:about Well, beyond that, you know
Norm Murdock [:You know, how to deal with, you know, the physical.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, a books to read. I'm sure there's resources, but it's it's not the same.
Norm Murdock [:It's not the same as having
Brett Johnson [:your problem. No. It's not right.
Steve Palmer [:Here is the here is the ultimate problem. I've been defending folks charged with crimes for almost 30 years now. And I will tell you this. This is anecdotal, but it's my observation. When mothers spoil their sons, either with because dad's not in the household, or dad is checked out, or dad is weak. Yeah. Or whatever.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:You create criminals. It it right?
Norm Murdock [:For sure.
Steve Palmer [:For sure. It just it just is a fact. Right? Spoiled boys get in trouble.
Norm Murdock [:They do.
Steve Palmer [:Because they become entitled. They become self righteous. They'd be they think they can do whatever they can do. They have no consequence.
Norm Murdock [:You
Steve Palmer [:know, it it just is a fact. And I, you know, it may not be a popular one, but it's just an anecdotal observation I've seen. And I always know when I when a client calls me and, I get a call from the mom, and I ask how old is he? And I hear, like, well, he's 30 or he's 28, or he's 25. And I was like, was he in jail? No. And sometimes he's in the background. I'm not you know, you can hear this dynamic, and I'm just thinking, this is the screwed upness of this.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:So I don't say that out loud, and now I've said it on tape. But, you know, it it's like I and and and then I have these I have these interactions with clients. Like, look, ma'am. I need to talk to your son.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:I don't represent you.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:I represent him. Yeah. You know, he can call me and make an appointment. I I wouldn't I I
Norm Murdock [:I once talked to the president of Xavier University. He's a friend of our family. And, it former president. He's not the president now. But at any rate, when he was president, he said he would sometimes, for a really, you know, special situation, set up an interview for, postgraduate employment, like with Procter and Gamble or Kroger or General Electric or whoever down in the Cincinnati area. And he said, some of these parents are so, wrapped up, like, in in trying to be the best friend to their kids instead of a parent, that when the kid goes in for an interview with HR, the parent thinks they're gonna go in there. Now this is a person Oh, wow. With, like, an MBA from Xavier University, and they go into, I don't know, 5th Third Bank.
Norm Murdock [:And the parent wants to go into the hiring meeting with their 20 22 year old kid.
Steve Palmer [:Can you imagine?
Norm Murdock [:It's like past past the bong. Right? Like, when does the when does a helicoptering stop? Right? Right. And you say, look, you're
Steve Palmer [:an adult.
Norm Murdock [:You gotta pay back your loan. You gotta go get a job. And it's a real scary world out there. It was my job to prepare you for that. Right. Not to be your best friend.
Steve Palmer [:Not to do it for you. And
Norm Murdock [:yes. So so father, he he couldn't believe.
Brett Johnson [:I I would be I would be just so excited to hear the aftermath of letting our, you know, our child go into that that interview and just wait. I I I'm ready for the phone call afterwards to go, how'd it go? How'd it go? Don't be a part of it. I wanna hear their feeling of it versus experience it. Because you know what
Norm Murdock [:I mean? Come on. So, Brett, to that point, his executive friends Oh my god. Would call back They would call back father at x u and say, what did you tell this kid to do? They they showed up with their mother Oh my god. Or their father at this interview.
Steve Palmer [:Like, it it's like, nope. Not hiring. Exactly. Right. I remember I'm trying to think of the example, but I I made my son's one. Like, it might have been like a an appointment. They needed some maybe it was, like, a physical or whatever. I said, well, pick up the phone, son.
Steve Palmer [:Pick up the phone and call the doctor. Right. And the look of terror.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And it would have been so easy for me to do it. Sure. But I made him do it.
Norm Murdock [:You're not doing him a favor by coddling them No. No. As they get older.
Steve Palmer [:No. In particular. But even young, it's like, what's the like, I we know as parents. Like, if I'm making my 12 year old call the doctor or call somebody and say, I need a haircut or I need whatever it is. It's like it's terrifying the first time. Yeah. But once you do it the first time, you realize you can do it a second time. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And then you can make a different kind of call.
Brett Johnson [:It's always the first time is the hardest. Right.
Steve Palmer [:So it's always deprive them of that opportunity to overcome that fear. That's what they're doing. They're depriving their kids of opportunities to overcome incremental fears and problems in the world. And then
Brett Johnson [:they Become an adult faster.
Steve Palmer [:And then they never learn how to conquer bigger
Brett Johnson [:ones. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's true. I I so, I I you know, guys don't get mad at me because I correct my own missteps and and misstatements. And so this is not aimed at anybody. So no names. But last week, we did, have on the show an expression that, men can camp out with girls. And in fact, I dug up the Girl Scouts of America's policy, and men are not allowed to camp, with the girls. They have to have a different facility.
Brett Johnson [:I think we were speculating, weren't we, at that point in time?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:So no idea what the rules were.
Norm Murdock [:So my my point we haven't experience too. We don't know yet. My point my point was in bringing up that is that why don't we also protect the boys for the very same reason from men who have outed themselves as gay? It it's the same exact sexual
Steve Palmer [:attraction. Yeah. I'm not gonna beat this horse again. But look, I Yeah. Tune in to the last debate.
Norm Murdock [:And the reason is and and and Brett brought up, well, how do you screen for that? And because you can't screen for it. No. You can't screen for, pedophilia. They're they're they're Right. You know, I mean, no one's gonna say I'm a pedophile. No. They're not. No.
Norm Murdock [:No.
Steve Palmer [:Nobody who's gay is gonna say they're pedophile. Nobody who's straight is gonna say they're pedophile. Nobody who's bisexual
Norm Murdock [:is gonna
Steve Palmer [:get to pedophile.
Norm Murdock [:So what the girl scouts do for hetero guys is say, hey, look. We're not saying you're a creep, but you can't count that one.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I think I think that is theater just the same as the others theater. So anyway Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So I hate this particular Supreme Court decision because Clarence Thomas wrote it. And I I wish justice Alito had been, had persuaded him differently. But this week, the Supreme Court upheld the funding mechanism, and it's through the federal bank, you know, the Fed, rather than through congressional funding. They upheld that mechanism for this consumer protection bureau that, Obama and Biden created. And people think basically that this board has overstepped its bounds and,
Steve Palmer [:well, the funding is one question.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. The funding is
Steve Palmer [:Overstepping its bounds is a different question.
Norm Murdock [:That's a different and this was
Steve Palmer [:That will come up later. That will
Norm Murdock [:come up later. This is strictly about funding. And Alito said, what you're taking away by saying that you could do an end run by having the Fed fund this, because it never would have passed congress, is you're taking away the Congress's role as the funding part of the US government. Right? So this is the way for the administration to spend tax dollars outside of the normal appropriations process. Right. And Alito freaked out, but it's a 7 to 2 opinion. So the vast majority,
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I haven't read it, so I can't comment on it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's fresh. It's just yesterday
Steve Palmer [:or today. That is a that is a complex issue, but I suspect, and I'm just guessing, that there are other issues yet to come. So, you know, look, we've talked about this. There's a there's a certain amount of judicial restraint that has to occur when the US Supreme Court acts. It can't it it it is its job is to decide cases and controversies, meaning things that are actually at issue in the case. So Yeah. Law that is not going to swivel the decision one direction or another usually isn't ripe for review. So those are the big buzzwords.
Steve Palmer [:We talk about cases or controversy, whether something is ripe for review. So you don't need an apple when it's still hard and green, and a decision or a legal issue isn't ready until it's ripe to take a bite out of it. And so some of these might not have been an issue there, and there's an old there's an old exception to this. I think it was Muscrad versus Mellon says, every now and then you can take on issues that aren't right. So so what happens, Norm, or guys is, say, you have, a controversy that's already resolved by the time it gets to the US Supreme Court. So abortion would be a great one. Right? So by the time you get to the US Supreme Court, you've either had the baby or aborted the baby, and it's, you know, you can't turn back the clock. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So I think in muskrat versus Mellon, the the buzzwords were it's capable of repetition yet evading review. So every now and then, if if something isn't right for review or it's already moot and, resolved, then you can still resolve it or the court will still take it on, but only in that kind of exception. So, Yeah. You've gotta have you gotta have the actual legal issue in play when they decide this. And if it's not there, well, bring another action.
Norm Murdock [:I think what upset Alito is, you know, you know, who who controls the swamp? And this is just another example of the federal of the, excuse me, the executive branch holding great sway over over the congress.
Steve Palmer [:It's coming. I'm telling you, it's coming with this court. It is coming. The administrative state is gonna get gutted sooner or later with this court and the makeup of this court. It's coming. I don't know exactly how or when or why. I suspect it'll come with some overbroad environmental nonsense that happens or some declaration of an emergency that, doesn't exist. And next thing you know, we're gonna have, we're gonna have some decisions on.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, I found something here.
Steve Palmer [:You don't
Brett Johnson [:have that.
Norm Murdock [:Yes, sir.
Brett Johnson [:It might affect, Steve's world. Maybe, there's a new gel that breaks down alcohol in the body. Researchers at ETH Zurich have developed a protein based gel that breaks down alcohol in the gas gastrointestinal, excuse me, track without harming the body. In the future, people who take the gel could reduce the harmful and intoxicating effects of alcohol.
Steve Palmer [:Well, then you're gonna reduce the consumption of alcohol because people don't take it for any other reason than to get the Exactly. The buzz.
Brett Johnson [:I I I I sorry. I don't yeah. I mean, it's it's interesting. I mean
Norm Murdock [:n a n a alcohol would be the top seller.
Brett Johnson [:You'd think. Yeah. So I I don't know the you know, it's interesting that they found something. It's a mixture of, what is it?
Norm Murdock [:Could be used.
Brett Johnson [:Whey, iron, and gold. Wow.
Steve Palmer [:So look, if you if you over imbibed and you wanna say, boy, I I didn't mean to drink those 10 shots, And you you take this stuff. So, I mean, I can see that.
Brett Johnson [:But I I think you take it pre Yeah. Pre binge.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Brett Johnson [:But if this But why drink if
Steve Palmer [:it's not gonna get
Brett Johnson [:you drunk? I I yeah. Yeah. And an alcoholic is not going to take this.
Steve Palmer [:I wouldn't take look. I I I don't drink
Brett Johnson [:anything. I'm not alcohol. I don't I'm an alcoholic, so but I would think not. They they drink for the sake of the field. Right.
Steve Palmer [:I don't drink anymore. I stopped drinking alcohol. And I can tell you this, if it didn't get me buzzed or intoxicated or give you that feeling of alcohol, I wouldn't have had it in the 1st place. I mean, why else would I do it? Yeah. And some people say, well, I love the taste. I would say this. Try to go back and remember your first taste of alcohol, whatever that was. And every you know, mine happened to be okay, I guess.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. But it was, like, and that's because it was, like, a, a, what my whiskey sour or something. Well, a lot of sugar and a lot of stuff doesn't sort
Norm Murdock [:of match. Jen fizz.
Steve Palmer [:But my first drink of beer, it tasted horrible. Yeah. Right. Right. Now my the second or third time I started to drink beer, I got used to it or I was able to stomach it. I developed it. I I quote developed it. Like, you wouldn't consume that stuff except for the fact that it's alcohol.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. No. You're right. I I agree. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So look and I'm not suggesting it's bad to consume alcohol to get the buzz. Look. It's when I used to drink, I loved it. Yeah. I mean, well, it's kind of I loved having it. It's it's kind of
Brett Johnson [:the same example. I mean, wild rabbit has its own taste, but,
Norm Murdock [:yeah, if you eat it a
Brett Johnson [:few times, you get used to it.
Steve Palmer [:You get used to it. Right?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. You know?
Steve Palmer [:Or here, try my deer. I'll tell you this will taste or try my wild turkey.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, my god. Deer. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Alcohol has its own little no.
Steve Palmer [:I'm And look, I'll make I'll make deer meat taste palatable, but it still doesn't taste good.
Brett Johnson [:But I but I just thought that was interesting. That's like, okay. I mean, I maybe it has some application. I'm not seeing yet.
Steve Palmer [:But If
Norm Murdock [:you put enough, Tabasco on just about any meat, you could
Steve Palmer [:Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly. I'll survive on that.
Norm Murdock [:I thought it was a little rich this week, that Biden used a he's he's claiming executive privilege to withhold, access, to these tapes, where he was deposed or interviewed, whatever, by a special counsel Robert Hurd who was looking into Biden's, his own, secret classified documents case. You know, the the old, meme about the the records in the garage next to the Corvette. Yep. And the guy came out and he he recommended against charging Biden because he said, that he's an old man and he's confused.
Steve Palmer [:Right. I
Norm Murdock [:remember. And so he lacks capacity somehow to to face charges now. And so naturally, the Republican Congress wants to hear these tapes.
Steve Palmer [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:And and I wanna hear the confusion. I wanna see, you know, his incompetence because you're claiming he doesn't stand for charges when another president who's basically the same age is being currently charged in Florida.
Brett Johnson [:This guy's on the ballot for the BR president. Yeah. And we're saying he's too confused.
Steve Palmer [:Right. We aren't allowed to know how competent he is. Look.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. That's scary.
Norm Murdock [:And he's claiming executive privilege, which he says is not available to Trump. I wonder available to him.
Steve Palmer [:I wonder what the vote would be if you just took a vote of every citizen in the United States. Should we require Biden to undergo a complete pure and not some nonsense one, but a complete psychological evaluation. And even Trump for that matter.
Brett Johnson [:I'd want both of them.
Steve Palmer [:I'd want both of them. I'd want both of
Norm Murdock [:them to do it.
Steve Palmer [:Like and I'm not talking like, no, He's physically healthy. We've tested him and everything. Because that's what they always do. Alright. Reax rate his brain. He's fine. It's like, well, no. No.
Steve Palmer [:No. No. We we need a cognitive test.
Norm Murdock [:Well, and the irony is Biden this week, his his, surrogates have come out against Robert, Kennedy junior because they said he had an infection that a worm in his All I
Steve Palmer [:can think of is Pink Floyd and a worm
Norm Murdock [:right into his brain. 8 part of his bank brain. Oh, wow. Actually, he had to have, he recovered from surgery. It's like
Steve Palmer [:you can't make this stuff up.
Brett Johnson [:And I'm like,
Norm Murdock [:well, wait a minute. This is Biden talking about somebody else's executive function? Right.
Steve Palmer [:Biden didn't know what day it is. I mean, it just like
Norm Murdock [:I'm like, how can you how can you attack Robert Kennedy junior when you won't release your own medical stuff?
Steve Palmer [:He doesn't. I don't even think he knows he's not releasing his medical stuff. This is like this we get to the point where you don't know what you don't know. I mean, he's just living in
Brett Johnson [:And I and, you know, and I know it's an a slippery slip in regards to okay. So when how can you not be a certain age then and be president? I I I I understand that. Okay. What is it? 75 then?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I I don't think it should be an age limit as much as it I wouldn't mind cognitive testing.
Brett Johnson [:I no.
Norm Murdock [:No. I wouldn't mind that either.
Brett Johnson [:And it's also okay. Let's look at the reality. This office holding takes it out of you. Oh, For sure. It takes it out of you.
Norm Murdock [:The before and after pictures. Look.
Brett Johnson [:And I can't imagine any 75, 80 year old person going through this for years and and and and handling it.
Steve Palmer [:I'm with you. I'm sorry. I I think, however, 175 year old is not the same as another. It's not the same as another. You're right. So you've gotta have a way to baseline it. Right. And Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And age age 75 year
Brett Johnson [:olds are different than they were 30 years ago.
Steve Palmer [:Of course. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:They are. Right.
Steve Palmer [:You know, my dad at 75 was sharp as a tack.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You know, every time somebody brings up competency exams for older, drivers. Right? Yeah. The AARP and all those groups, they freak out. I know. But, frankly, motor control, dementia, other things, you know, your eyesight, that stuff should probably be looked at on a far more frequent basis for all of us. Yeah. For all kinds of things.
Norm Murdock [:School bus drivers, airline pilots, us as motorists. Mhmm. You know, I mean, I'm not afraid of competency exams. And if I'm not competent to drive my car on the freeway with other people, I shouldn't have the keys.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I just got my license renewed a couple weeks ago. And my wife told me, he's like, take your contacts and get your glasses on. Because when you do the eye thing, your contacts are not gonna you can't see it. It is hard. I forgot to. Anyway, I'm in there and I can't because to to full disclosure one contact, one eye stronger than the other. So I have 2 different focuses.
Brett Johnson [:So when I'm looking that close, I can close one eye and see
Norm Murdock [:it, but you got to
Brett Johnson [:look at it both. God bless the young lady in there. She's working with me and she she gets me through it. Say, we're good. We're good. We're good. So, and this is a little off topic, but you'll love the kicker of this. You know, you're supposed to bring like 3 or 4 pieces of ID.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm. She didn't look at anything. Interesting. I could have been a freaking terrorist.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Did you have your other ID though with you? You had your current one?
Brett Johnson [:She's my current one.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Well, at least that's
Brett Johnson [:You're supposed I mean, they make a big ass deal. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I have a backup and Right.
Brett Johnson [:Your passport and 3 a bill that she didn't look and again, I'm not blaming her necessarily. I could have gone through and I could be the world's number one terrorist and I got my new license.
Norm Murdock [:Mohammed Atta.
Steve Palmer [:I could not.
Brett Johnson [:You know, so I mean, again, look at white privilege. I don't know what the deal was, but it's like, dude, I didn't have to show anything. I don't
Steve Palmer [:know what the standards are to pass the eye test. But They're low.
Brett Johnson [:But they're low.
Steve Palmer [:I wear glasses, and I wear glasses when I drive. Mhmm. I've never had a restriction on my license.
Brett Johnson [:Really?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I've always passed the test.
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:And I don't so I don't know if I don't know if they're just fudging it. I don't know if I'm actually passing.
Brett Johnson [:Don't they just mark that you don't you do what corrective lenses that was in there?
Steve Palmer [:But I don't have that marked on my
Brett Johnson [:Really?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I've always passed. And look, my eyes aren't terrible. Yeah. So I can see that. I might I might just meet a minimum threshold.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And at night, for sure, I'd have my glasses on. But I've driven during the day without my glasses at times. But it's,
Norm Murdock [:it's fuzzy.
Steve Palmer [:It's it street signs get a little
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, you you got when you got that nighttime, that's when it gets, like, evening, it gets a little fuzzy.
Norm Murdock [:And and I
Brett Johnson [:like that too or whatever. At night night,
Steve Palmer [:it's almost blind. I sometimes I At night in the rain anymore, I just tell my wife to drive.
Norm Murdock [:Well, Brett Brett, you may so the the debates haven't happened. Right? I know. I saw that you may you your prediction may fall.
Brett Johnson [:It may fall. I'm I was shocked to see it in June next month.
Norm Murdock [:Right? Won't believe that they debate until they Until it happens.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, they're gonna debate. It's it's on now. So Biden gets out. Did you did you see his little thing too? It's like, how many cuts were in that? It's it's I
Brett Johnson [:didn't see it.
Steve Palmer [:It was like
Norm Murdock [:it was terrible.
Steve Palmer [:10 or 15 cuts. Great.
Norm Murdock [:To do a, like, a 15 second clip. Yeah. Yeah. It was terrible.
Steve Palmer [:And and there's, like, drums in the background. Like, it's something super intense.
Norm Murdock [:Edgy. You know, like, it's on MTV.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And quite frankly, if it happens, I'm not watching it.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, I'm watching. I'm watching it. I
Steve Palmer [:Methamphetamine is gonna be all juice. Joke.
Brett Johnson [:It's a joke.
Norm Murdock [:Did you see one of the terms is when the other guy's talking, the the non talking guy, his mic is cut.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Then I might watch it then.
Norm Murdock [:Well, that'll help Trump because he kinda
Brett Johnson [:I'll watch it.
Norm Murdock [:He overdoes it. He interrupts the other person
Steve Palmer [:Yes.
Norm Murdock [:And comes off as super aggressive. He hurts himself. Okay. So this is act like
Steve Palmer [:Trump is running a genius campaign right now because he's occupied in a criminal trial. He's got gag orders, and they're they're they're catering to him here by by protecting him from his own worst traits.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. He's got JD Vance and Matt Gaetz and all these people. The speaker of the house, Mike Johnson
Steve Palmer [:Right. Camping for him.
Norm Murdock [:They're all going down to the trial with him.
Steve Palmer [:Right? Saying the things that he's gonna say. It's it's like he's this is a and he's yeah. And and, you know, I said this, I think, last week or the week before. He's like, he's taking the right positions. Like, on abortion, he's not creating a hard line. I disagree with him. I, you know, actually, I don't disagree with him on what he's saying, but, you know, he could easily say, I am anti abortion all up and down the line, never never never. But he's saying, look, it's not my call.
Steve Palmer [:It's the state's call. Like, he like, he's he's he's engaged in some political nuance here that I think will serve him well. I agree with you. And, right.
Norm Murdock [:I I don't agree with his position, but I agree it's good politics what he's doing.
Steve Palmer [:It's good politics. It's a bridge too far right now in our country to
Brett Johnson [:Oh, it is.
Steve Palmer [:To to take the other position. So
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And and look, there's lots of people that you no matter where you fall on that, you have to at least acknowledge there is a very close divide on this, on what people think about abortion.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. So let let the arguments happen. And Trump has sort of taking a position that look, let the arguments happen at the state level. That's what the Supreme Court said. Let's do it.
Norm Murdock [:You know, this this this trial about, whether they, you know, didn't report, you know, the documents. What is it? The expenses were mischaracterized, so it's a business records case. They're calling it a hush money trial, but it's really not about the hush money because that's perfectly legal. You could pay somebody to for an NDA. But but, I mean and and there's no problem with that. But it's it's did his accounting of it go to the right business column.
Steve Palmer [:And was that done in order to cover up a crime? So that's so it's 2 things. It has to be otherwise, it's a misdemeanor, I think. So it's like Yeah. So it's like he had to he had to miss or falsely enter
Norm Murdock [:He falsely enter. Yes.
Steve Palmer [:The the expense as a legal expense instead of a hush money. Right. And then, he had to do it for the purpose of covering up a crime, and the problem with this prosecution has been they really haven't identified a crime. They're saying
Norm Murdock [:What's a second crime?
Steve Palmer [:They well, that was that was really a campaign contribution on some level without, disclosure, but the feds passed on that prosecution long ago, and the statute of limitations will have run on that long.
Norm Murdock [:Well, the Supreme Court let John Edwards off And
Steve Palmer [:there's there's questions about whether it was a crime in the first place. So it's a real sketchy prosecution.
Norm Murdock [:But the the the, defense counsel for, Trump destroyed Michael Cohen yesterday.
Steve Palmer [:I heard it was a good crossroads.
Norm Murdock [:Just totally destroyed him. You know, he got Michael Cohen to actually say 2 two important things. 1, that he and Trump discussed paying off Stormy Daniels, this 130,000, which is like a a a dollar 30 for me for Trump to pay a 130,000. It's like new nuisance money. And they discussed it 11 years before he ran for president. So that shows that it wasn't a campaign thing.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. And then number 2, he got Michael Cohen to agree that his memory about what he told the this, attorney was gonna hire this Robert Costello guy that that he was interviewing potentially via his attorney, that he told Robert Costello, no. I I don't have anything on Trump. I don't have any crimes. I don't have any misspending. I have nothing on that. And and so this defense counsel knowing that they're gonna call this Costello guy, Okay? And Cohen knew that. Cohen's like, okay.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Maybe I maybe I'm not sure if I told him that or not. Mhmm. Oh, dude. I mean, even even MSNBC and people like that are saying, yeah. The But they they It's over.
Steve Palmer [:There was more they could have done. I mean, wasn't Cohen Didn't he get in trouble for perjury?
Norm Murdock [:Yes. Serving serving 3 years in the in in the pen.
Steve Palmer [:Mister Cohen?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Convicted for perjury.
Steve Palmer [:Are you a liar?
Norm Murdock [:Yes. That's a convicted one.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. I mean, I would have asked, are you a liar?
Norm Murdock [:And they did. And they did. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't
Steve Palmer [:I didn't watch it, but that I would have come out of shoes, like Yeah. Let me let's get one thing straight for the jury. You're a liar, aren't you?
Norm Murdock [:Right. So so so, Steve, according to the journalist that sat in on this yesterday, this this attorney, very boringly for, like, 3 hours, went through the retinue of all the cases where Michael Cohen has lied and has you know, whether it's before congress, whether it's in court, whatever. Right? Where he is on the record of as lying. And he took, like, hours to do this. And they said the jurors' feet, they were all fidgety, like, they've heard enough of this. And then he went for the red meat. So he, you know, he said he he teed him up.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. See, that's a an hour that teed him up. That's too long. Jeez. I it it it's just one question.
Norm Murdock [:And but then he blew him up.
Steve Palmer [:Are you a liar?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And what's what's he gonna say? Right. No.
Brett Johnson [:Well, weren't you But you may get back to the being a liar, though.
Steve Palmer [:Well, that's interesting because you plead guilty to being a liar.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly right.
Steve Palmer [:You said you were a liar before. Are you a liar then or now are you lying when you're saying didn't plead guilty to being a liar? I mean
Norm Murdock [:And he's the and he's the main witness on this charge.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So Anyway, no, I like but you those those are fun little showboat points, but the ones that matter, the ones you you brought up. Right? Is that, if he talked about paying off Stormy 12 years ago. Now two things can be true at once. He could have talked about it 12 years ago, and he still did it this time in order to hide it for his candidacy. You know, those things could be true. So he didn't do it. Like, if I'm coming back on him, I would say, well, he didn't do it 12 years ago.
Steve Palmer [:Right? He paid her off here
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:After the campaign.
Norm Murdock [:So so our friend, over at Capital University, I I saw him, being interviewed by I don't I don't know who it was. Neil Cavuto or somebody. One of the business, channels. And, Brad Smith is his name. He's a law professor, and he was former head of the Federal Elections Commission. He may be a witness. The defense may call him as an expert witness. He said that the difficulty with, the Alvin Bragg this whole this whole business records thing is Alvin Bragg's trying to say that this was a campaign, that the motivation was to make this a campaign expense.
Norm Murdock [:And what what professor Smith said is it would be illegal for Trump to have spent campaign funds on this as a campaign expense. So he didn't. So what Alvin Bragg is saying Trump should have done, that would have been a crime. Right. Instead, he paid it out of his personal
Steve Palmer [:correspondence. Committed that crime in another way. So he falsified this for the purposes of not of, covering up the real crime, which is an improper campaign contribution. So it's look, it's a little bit circular, but on the other hand.
Norm Murdock [:So it's a crime because he didn't commit a crime.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And and that's where Brad is saying that's absurd.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's it's
Norm Murdock [:You're trying to say that he's a judge. He should've he should've committed a crime and not paid this out of his personal and corporate funds. He should've paid for this stormy payoff out of campaign funds, but that would have been a crime.
Steve Palmer [:This is sort of like we're at a spot now. Crazy. You just wonder how this sword gets wielded in the future because you can't tell me that half the politicians, if not more, have done something like this.
Norm Murdock [:What what what Brad said is that what really disposed of this was the overturning of the John Edwards conviction where, he paid off, you know, a lady who said, you know, that that they had an illicit relationship. And, they overturned the the conviction on the on the same basis that professor Smith is is alleging. You know, like I
Steve Palmer [:I don't know the I have to read the case. Yeah. Yep. So look.
Norm Murdock [:You can't you can't tell him he's he was supposed to spend campaign money
Steve Palmer [:Predictions?
Norm Murdock [:Because that's a crime.
Steve Palmer [:Predictions? I think he gets convicted anyway.
Norm Murdock [:May or hung. But now they're saying maybe a hung because the jury I mean, this guy, Cohen, was blown up, man. And and I think even some of the jurors just take just takes one. Right, Steve? I mean
Steve Palmer [:Takes one to hang it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yep. So anyway, we'll find out. Alright.
Steve Palmer [:Moving right along.
Norm Murdock [:Couple of things about the upcoming election. So the Heritage Foundation, which is a conservative foundation, has a project called the Oversight Project and they have been digging for, like, three and a half years on this executive order that Biden issued, executive order 14019. And what that was, the the other 8 the federal agencies slow walk the FOIA request. So the Heritage Project finally got these documents that explain this order. The order is it sounds it sounds so, patriotic. The order is for federal agencies to go out there into the hustings, and pump up voter registration. Right? So it sounds like a good thing. Except for the fact that the documents now indicate that the places in the agencies and the third party contractors to be hired to do all of this, they're it's all pro Biden.
Norm Murdock [:It's it's it's it's all it's all targeted to overcome, you know, that margin of, I mean, Biden only won by 40,000 votes. So the idea is to go out there and try to find another 100 or 200,000 votes for Biden by targeting and of course, they're picking the Zuckerberg Foundation. They're picking, n double a, you know, the the CP. They're picking all of these, NGOs to carry out this mission through grants from these federal agencies, and every single one of them is targeted to a Biden constituency. So it really is your tax dollars being spent to do political work.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That had one last election too. For once. The the Zuckerberg Foundation, I mean, notoriously Notoriously. Went around and harvested votes for Biden.
Norm Murdock [:Then then the second thing in the campaign is probably the best defensive player in NFL history this week at the Wildwood, New Jersey rally that Trump held. Lawrence Taylor.
Steve Palmer [:Old LT. Man, back in the eighties.
Norm Murdock [:He got on the microphone and said, I am no longer a Democrat. Nobody in our family is ever gonna vote for a Democrat again. We're we're we're Trumpers. And I just I mean, this is a guy played for the for the Giants. Right? They're in New Jersey. Man, I think this edifice, this this it's it's starting to crumble. This this racial identification thing that the Democrats have had locked down.
Steve Palmer [:It's it's
Norm Murdock [:it's bullshit. It's crumbling.
Steve Palmer [:It's not working because it's BS. Yeah. And and look, what I I don't think it's here's where I think here's where the left is is making a mistake, where the Democrats are making a mistake. They are attributing all this to Trump. Alright? So they're they think Trump has just got everybody duped. Right. But what they really should do is look in the mirror and say, our policies are not working, and the people don't like them. Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right? They don't like it.
Norm Murdock [:I don't even like Trump, but I I have to vote for him. Right.
Steve Palmer [:So I
Brett Johnson [:mean, I have no choice.
Steve Palmer [:It's like when when you make it so when your policies are so bad Yeah. That the people who like you, who don't like Trump I don't
Norm Murdock [:even like you.
Steve Palmer [:Are gonna vote for him. Yeah. Not because you're like a dyed in the wool Trump supporter, but because the alternative is so scary Right. That you have no choice.
Norm Murdock [:I'm not walking in lock step with him. He's not like, I it like, I don't respect him as some kind of moral
Steve Palmer [:Well, look. I I respect no president as that.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It's ridiculous.
Steve Palmer [:I do not look for my I look to my president for moral cues.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. No.
Steve Palmer [:Right. I've got a book at home that tells me all I need to know about that. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. And we've talked about 2 NFL players here this morning. And I I I don't look up to athletes for my moral cues.
Steve Palmer [:Of course not. Right.
Norm Murdock [:You know? And the one athlete said that. That that's what Butger's message was is you need you know, the priests need to clean up their act. The Vatican needs to clean now this is Catholic talk. The Catholics, need to clean up their act and get back to, not worrying about if you're popular, but worrying about what Jesus's message was. And that's what you should be teaching.
Steve Palmer [:And and the Not not trying
Norm Murdock [:to be, you know, go to the right cocktail parties as a priest.
Steve Palmer [:The genius of the message is that it was unpopular.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Like, it Oh,
Brett Johnson [:yeah. That's right.
Steve Palmer [:That it was, like, in that
Norm Murdock [:So unpopular, he got him killed.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:It was like, holy crap. He's speaking the truth.
Norm Murdock [:The and Roger Goodell. Roger Goodell in the NFL. Yeah. They they come out against their own guy. I mean, it's crazy. Right. But Lawrence Taylor, I mean, when somebody of that level so this isn't some nut like, you know, Diddy, you know. This is, you know or Kanye.
Norm Murdock [:This is
Steve Palmer [:I mean, look. LT is LT. He was a he was a really good football player. He had a infamous coke problem back in the eighties. Yeah. And he got rid and recovered, I think. But Yeah. Really, he became sort of the spokesman for, you know, I think some reform issues and other things.
Steve Palmer [:But, I I don't look to him. Like, just because LT is voting for Trump doesn't mean I will. But I think what you're saying is, this is demonstrative of maybe some eye opening going on around the country. Right. That just because you happen to have an r next to your name, you're not a racist.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. There is there's a recalculation happening. You know, certainly after the, after the, Emancipation Proclamation, many blacks were Republicans for for almost a whole century. It was they were you know, because the KKK and the thieves
Steve Palmer [:Even Johnson, like mister Great Society was notorious miserable ass racist
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Prick. Woodrow Wilson, several. Yeah. And it was the Republicans and Abe Lincoln. Right? And so, you know, like Jackie Robinson was a Republican.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You
Norm Murdock [:know, just as an example. And and people, you know, people look at that. I think, Jesse Owens was a republican. People look at that and they're like, well, why would these incredible figures of struggle in overcoming racism, why would they be Republicans? Well, because the KKK was a Democrat invention.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Like like, you you don't understand the history of race in this country, and and and I think it's coming around. People are understanding the new plantation.
Steve Palmer [:I would suggest this. What part of your end does not make you a racist either way?
Norm Murdock [:I agree with that. Right.
Steve Palmer [:So A 100%. If I happen to vote Republican, it by no means makes me a racist. And if you're a Democrat, it by no means makes you a racist. You're a racist if you're a freaking racist.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. Done. Done.
Steve Palmer [:And show me evidence of it before you start slinging that accusation around.
Norm Murdock [:So on our Facebook page, I don't know if you guys saw this. I had an extended debate with, one of our, he probably hasn't listened to a word we said. But he he took the occasion to to slam, Common Sense on our Facebook page. So I I think it's a 25 or maybe 30, post exchange with this guy and he he threw me the biggest softball saying, well, I I'm helping people because I'm in favor of DEI. And I don't know if it's intentional or accidental, but people who are in favor of DEI, that is racism. It's it's institutional racism to select people for scholarships, promotions, for for all kinds of benefits based on the color of their skin. That's ridiculous.
Steve Palmer [:Brett, don't you feel bad for this guy that decided to take on Norm? Oh, I I don't texting exchange.
Brett Johnson [:Don't understand.
Steve Palmer [:Norm is relentless.
Brett Johnson [:I guess, no. I don't understand why some somebody would not walk into that.
Steve Palmer [:I guess
Norm Murdock [:what the last post was. Norm is real. He he there
Steve Palmer [:is no there is no last post for you. Right. Well Unless it's yours.
Norm Murdock [:The last post it was. The last post and I didn't cut him off. I mean, he just quit.
Steve Palmer [:You just
Norm Murdock [:The last post was, I love you. Right? You love everybody. Right. After totally So
Steve Palmer [:what we're saying here
Norm Murdock [:I disassembled his ass.
Steve Palmer [:You. I dare you to get in a texting string with him because he it never ends.
Norm Murdock [:Bring it. Yeah. Bring it. Get him
Steve Palmer [:on social media.
Brett Johnson [:You're made for social media.
Norm Murdock [:I don't even
Steve Palmer [:You were made for it. I don't even do it. It's just like I'd much rather just debate it here. No.
Brett Johnson [:Well, because because you're good at the very succinct moments. Well He he is good at that. I mean, you you encapsulate a thought in a text message or a a social media post very well.
Norm Murdock [:Well, there's
Steve Palmer [:a lot
Norm Murdock [:of ammo. That's hard. Yeah. Hard. So, Steve, I was very troubled by something that you texted, Brett and I about that's coming, and I have not studied it. I'd like you to tell us about this new pandemic they're predicting. That's like 10 times
Steve Palmer [:monkey flu or whatever it was.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, come on, man.
Steve Palmer [:What was it? The bird is it bird flu or something? It was
Brett Johnson [:a bird, wasn't it? Yeah. Bird flu or something
Steve Palmer [:like that. So So they're predicting it. It's like there's little silent rumblings out there about a bird flu that's gonna be worse. It's gonna be worse than COVID.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, for god's sake.
Steve Palmer [:It's like is it could you queue it up Yeah. Any better?
Norm Murdock [:Any better.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. So polls are favoring Trump. The like, it is just like what we need right now is a worldwide crisis of a bird flu, so we can then exercise all these controls over people again and manipulate the outcome of this mess.
Norm Murdock [:And let's start the mail in balloting, like, right now. Sure.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, let's Let's just start.
Norm Murdock [:Let's not wait for the debates.
Steve Palmer [:Of course.
Norm Murdock [:You know? Like, in Pennsylvania, they can vote 50 days before election day. And so when Fetterman and doctor Oz finally had their debate, 60% of Pennsylvanians who were voting had already
Steve Palmer [:voted. Right. And they're mostly Democrats, I would guess. So that that's what they think. Yeah. Democrats are more apt to vote early than the Republican.
Norm Murdock [:So let's I hope they get these debates in early. Because if this I
Steve Palmer [:mean, look.
Norm Murdock [:If this new pandemic comes, if they're gonna do all the same stupid shit
Steve Palmer [:I tell you what, if they shut down my business again
Norm Murdock [:Oh.
Steve Palmer [:Because of the bird flu, I'm gone. I'm not leaving the country Yeah. But I'm going underground.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I'm
Steve Palmer [:gonna go dig a bunker.
Norm Murdock [:I think a lot of people will defy it this time.
Steve Palmer [:Doug, there's they're gonna have to send the stormtroopers in.
Brett Johnson [:It won't be the same.
Norm Murdock [:It won't be. It will not be the same. They could tell people to wear masks. They can tell them to do this, that. Yeah. And people will do
Steve Palmer [:it before and I'm not doing it now.
Norm Murdock [:They they will largely disobey
Steve Palmer [:And I
Norm Murdock [:because they've been lied to. I I just saw where AstraZeneca took its COVID vaccine off the market last week. I mean, because they're all finding these, adverse effects.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. There's there's look.
Norm Murdock [:It didn't go through trials.
Steve Palmer [:Is it a coincidence? I'm asking somewhat rhetorically. Is it a coincidence that the number of cardiac events in ages like 30 to 45
Norm Murdock [:Absolute.
Steve Palmer [:Are so high right now. Is that a coincidence? Maybe. But nobody's freaking studying it either. So Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Well, then you can't say we're not living through stressful times as well too.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So find that piece
Brett Johnson [:of it as well.
Steve Palmer [:Find out the reasons for it. Study it. But don't stick your head in the sand over it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. I I just I my last thing, guys, is that, you know, we we we are so focused on stupid stuff like, you know, what a man is, what a woman is, what bathrooms he can use, you know, kids that are furries going to furry convention, all this crazy crap. In the meantime, like, there's real shit going down in the world. So there is a civil war that's been raging this week. Basically, a race and a religious war in a French, colony called New Caledonia, which is in in the Pacific. There's quarter 1000000 people live on this island and, basically, it's overvoting. So so the French want to give people Europe of European descent the right to vote in provincial elections in New Caledonia.
Norm Murdock [:And the islander native population has a very socialist, front organization that doesn't represent all the islanders, but it it's powerful and they went nuts. So what it was is if you lived in New Caledonia for more than 10 years, you got the right to vote in your local elections whether you were white, brown, or black. It you know? And that was that was enough to set off this civil war that's going on. 90% of businesses have been burned. The wharves and the docks are on fire. I have a friend living there. He's a he's a former French policeman, and he tells me his 4 his family of 4 are hunkered down with 2 months of water, 2 months of food. They haven't seen police in the streets for 4 days.
Norm Murdock [:And, basically, it's like it's like, the whole island.
Steve Palmer [:It's joist up. It's like it's a western country. Yeah. Right? France?
Norm Murdock [:Right. I mean, it's like Ferguson, except it's like life and all already, like, around 10 people have died.
Steve Palmer [:I confess I knew nothing about it. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Well, it's not on the news. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Right? Because we're obsessed with stupid trials and ridiculous stuff. And then the other thing that's going on is the Chinese and the Cambodians have been doing joint exercises and they deny it but the Cambodia just built like a 3,000 foot pier and they're denying that it's to accommodate the Chinese aircraft carriers that are being built. And it it's funny, just 7 years ago, we were doing joint exercises with the Cambodians. Now, it's the Chinese.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Look. We we we we're losing sleep. We're losing. When we go to sleep, the bad guys take over. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's that's what I got, guys.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, with that, we're gonna wrap it up. It has been another, I think, fascinating episode Always are. Of Common Sense Ohio. I dare you, by the way, to start blogging, texting, communicating with Norm. Not because you're gonna lose a debate, because it will never end. Oh. It will go and go and go and go.
Steve Palmer [:He's the Energizer Bunny. Be prepared. He's plugged in. Be prepared. So anyway, so if you if you want to do that, it's easy to do. You go to commonsenseohio ohio show.com, you go to the Facebook page, you can go to YouTube, we're on Rumble, and all the other places where you might wanna find a podcast, or a YouTube show, or video clips. We got reels. We got clips.
Steve Palmer [:We got we got it all right here at Common Sense Ohio, brought to you by Harper Plus, where we are coming at you right from the middle each and every week, at least until now.
