00:00:44Kelly deals is a writer and feminist marketing consultant. In other words. She's a culture maker. She connects the dots between our individual lives and our culture so that you can take deliberate effective action to change. Both. Let's listen in. Hey, Kelly. I'm totally fangirling right now that you were so into systems and change goals. So can you share with us? Why you're so passionate about that? Okay. So what that means is we're not leaving into the status quo, right? We're not trying to be successful in the system as it is. We actually sort of fundamentally object to the way things are set up and we're going to do work and we're going to use our own livelihood activities are on Career activities. Our own business activities to do the work of Shifting that system. So, let's see what would have been changed business. Look like one that I can think of off the top of my hands head is a sheet. You have interests of ensure that she EO is funding and supporting its called bios.

00:02:44But then they take it to another level by turning that into compounds that enables other people to not buy big, Trillium products. So huge systems change were right. So that is a revolutionary work and then if we support that company and make sure that that company while it's in his infancy gets supported and gets the calf that needs to expand and develop their processes and get new plan to expand into new markets across the world. Then like we get more so that I mean, I'm just so passionate about that work and enabling those social entrepreneurs to do more of their brilliant work in the world, really love the story of biocellection. And yet, I find that it's really hard sometimes for people to think holistically systemically about the really big picture items, as well as a really small task level. And yet, these are the things that are vital for change. So, how do you address?

00:04:32About people, buying houses houses on side of rent to own scheme. So, black families, buying houses on rent-to-own programs and how that wasn't just a personal decision between the person offering that program and the family, but actually, that was like created by government policies, that red line, certain districts made it hard for black families to get mortgages and then they were, you know, some at the mercy of people, offering these predatory rent-to-own programs and then took that back. Even if the steps further to, how did that happen in the first place you do? And that is like their history of slavery and like all those things. He liked math. All of that out in this. Just now, missing word. Peace in. The Atlantic like, literally changed my life. I was like, oh, I get it. Like, it's literally like the the light bulb that went off in my head. That was like, oh, racism isn't personal? Like this has been shaped up for us.

00:06:32Mary Neal liberal, kind of way about race. Was that, like, some people are backward and not Progressive and have, you know, these ancient attitudes are going to die out and it's personal and the bad character or cruelty or meanness, right? And now because of reading that piece, I understand that that was a very skinny understanding of race and racism in and really, what I think is like it's baked into all of us. Like, it's kind of like the fish. Can't tell that they're in water because that they're in water. This is like the air that we breathe is white supremacy. It's a baked into everything and like another way that sometimes help people think about it is what some people call Founders by us. Like if you want to think about it on a small so like the bias of the founder of a business gets baked into the business. And I read recently about one of the bigger tech companies Road and a, I like

00:08:14So Kelly, how do we mind the gap as it were knowing that there's a tremendous space between where we are today? And where we want to be in the world. I mean, the betwixt-and-between space were were in, as people who want to create a different future in a different outcome and a world in which we all flourish, is what we want. This beautiful thing out there, where there is Justice and equity, and he was aware navigating, which is oppression and inequity. And so, how do we navigate the space between what we want? And what we live in? Like this is sort of the central question of my life, which is like we're constantly making trade-offs. We're constantly like coming to new levels of awareness of like, oh my gosh, here. I am the problem again, right? Here's a new level of awareness. Here's another layer of a question that's been baked into being flowing through and using my body and my mouth.

00:10:14How do you define feminism is inclusive at about Justice fundamentally? That's what it is. And it's about creating a future in which we all belong and we all matter and we also are, so that's for me. What feminism is about as fundamentally about Justice. Now, like my form of action is usually going to be through an inclusive gender lens. So I'm like, always looking through the lens of like, how does this impact people have different genders, you know, who's at the table, who's not at the table and it's like, what do we need to do to change the conditions so that everyone can be involved in the decision-making? Like that to me with what might have been as a means. Now, there's a million other definitions of feminism and certainly like mine is not be like end-all-be-all, but that is what it means for me. And that's how that informs the way I think in the action. I taken like the work I do in the world and

00:12:14Useful and important emotion and I don't think we can like sever off our emotions. Were going to have all of them but like for me when I feel angry, it's usually good information. Is usually means that there's an injustice and I like rightfully alerted to it in. My anger is saying like hello, something's wrong and that's like an important warning sign in my body to pick up on that. Right? So then I can navigate it and stay safe. But I think it's like, yeah, it's like an alert comes for like talks about this weekend and Grace, really useful. It. Propels us into really positive useful and action to keep people safe you. And also, if we internalize it and don't have any way to help Ali Express it, we can last out in harm people and it can be toxic. So it's a, it's important for women to be able to express anger so that we don't

00:14:14Are dominant cultural narrative about what it means to be the right kind of woman and the woman who deserves rights and resources in our society. So fundamentally, what that means that our culture is like, Val shall fight music. That is the first commandment for people who are so slices girls and women. You must be pretty. That is your first responsibility in life. And if you are pretty, then yes, you can also be smart and you can go to school and you can have a successful career. You can have all the things that you must first be pretty. That is the fundamental Foundation of your success. And so I think that has been conditioned into us. That's the status quo. And so what I feel foolish of people and let's say, people who are leading like Persona based Brands, they are leading with the fact that they are still in their professionally, pretty too often. Former actress, has one word answers. People in this play professions, who's now, like, moved in to be coming on.

00:16:14Dads that broke my heart and in the last three years that anger is still there, but it's not like as acutely pointed at any particular people and more. I have this huge compassion because it's it is what condition in to us. This is literally what we have soaked in for the last hundreds of years, but individually like, 20, 30, 40 years, and I understand why people do it and it's still is not good for us. And so, I have a total compassion for us. Those of us who have done, it are doing it. And I just want to encourage us to like, imagine something bigger and better for ourselves. Like, we absolutely do not have to be fit into this box. We can do something different, and there is a way to create value and crate, thriving livelihoods.

00:17:20There's a better way and it is possible, and divesting of the female ice. Now, in her brand does not mean, you're now going to be broke, just seen a real intersection between the female lifestyle empowerment brand and the online coaching profession. I was wondering if you've noticed the same thing and if you can maybe speak to that and I think in the coaching world, the online business coaching world, one of the things that I think that's an enormous amount of harm that comes from the narratives of the female lifestyle. And how bad is this notion that. Like, once you start a business, three months later. You can have grossed $300,000 and you're going to have this overnight success. If only you rock this formula and that is those results are even in those programs the absolute exception to the rules. And people who are saying like, look at this person. My students took this program that cost $10,000 and 3 months later. She had revenues of $300,000 and she's having

00:19:14But that's not the normal results. So I just feel like that's a lot of damage that's being created by that narrative because it makes us failing and they're not about the female lifestyle empowerment brand. And these coaching systems that are promising. Tremendous results on compressed time frames. Is it there also saddling businesses with systems that may not feel good or be right actually for the personality of the business or

00:20:45He infects, which I tried to do something that you're being required to do, or talk to do. That is not working for you. And if not for you and you can do something different. You like 100% have permission to do something. If I do get better results when you do because I don't like this, it's not working for me. I think that someone is the dominant narrative is and like I definitely fell down on my own personal Facebook group because I didn't think it out carefully. But so one of the dominant narrative in the online world right now is like, start a Facebook group. It's very easy. You'll have all these clients paying attention to. It will grow your business and totally true. Because when you have a Facebook group people get the notifications that they don't get from your page. So you do have more attention and that you can grow in this community and its really super fabulous and nursing for everyone and if you don't especially the person with a dominant identity, so, for example, I'm white.

00:22:28Helping Facebook group owners and administrators and, and moderators have a plan for accounting for those power dynamics, and for resolving conflict. And if you don't have a plan to resolve conflict and you have a plan to harm, so that is something I've learned from intimate experience, but it's also something like I'm observing. So I'm not saying don't start Facebook groups. I'm saying start them very thoughtfully and make sure you have the facilitation skills to moderate them and that you have the social and structural analysis and cultural competency and knowledge of power dynamics, and conflict to make sure that that stays in the space in which people can flourish not to say that will never be conflict, but there are methods for solving a bit like to thank Kelly deals for appearing on the women Concord business podcast. You can reach Kelly at www.kelly.com and she would also like to invite all of

00:23:51Thank you for listening to the women conquer business podcast. You can find us online at ww.w. Jen mcfarlane.com podcast. You can also connect with Jen on social media, agenus McFarland, on Facebook, Twitter or LinkedIn. The show is produced in Portland, Oregon by Jan, McFarland Consulting, women conquer business is available on iTunes, Google podcast, Spotify, and many other podcast.