Episode:#47 Shaun Boyce and Bobby Schindler

In this episode we talk to David Stolle and Stewart Russell of UTA who has been a staple of metro Atlanta tennis for over 25 years. UTA manages multiple locations throughout metro Atlanta, has a history of helping the city of Atlanta with the city facilities as well as helping private clubs grow and improve. David and Stewart walk us through a bit out the college recruiting process but more importantly we learn more about what is necessary to prepare your young player for the recruiting process.

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Shaun Boyce USPTA: shaun@tennisforchildren.com

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Bobby Schindler USPTA: schindlerb@comcast.net

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Geovanna Boyce: geovy@regeovinate.com

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In this episode, we talk to David Stolle

and Stewart Russell of UTA, Universal Tennis Academy,

who has been a staple of Metro Atlanta tennis

for over 25 years.

UTA manages multiple locations throughout Metro Atlanta,

has a history of helping the city of Atlanta

with city facilities,

as well as helping private clubs grow and improve.

David and Stewart walk us through a bit

of the college recruiting process,

but more importantly, we learn more about

what is necessary to prepare your young player

for the recruiting process.

Have a listen and let us know what you think.

(soft music)

- Good morning, this is Shaun Boyce

with the Atlanta tennis podcast.

We have an exciting morning,

we're a few minutes late getting going,

'cause that is the nature of what happens with live things.

And we don't mind, but I appreciate anybody

who's actually paying attention.

In this case, today, we bring in Bobby Schindler as usual,

but we're in the same room at the same time,

which doesn't happen all that often,

and we are honored to have David Stolle

and Stewart Russell with us today,

from Universal tennis academy,

and they are gonna talk about all the cool stuff they do,

as well as catching us up on some college recruiting information,

which is kind of a year-round process

from what I can tell.

It's not just, not even that,

I just say the kind of thing, my child,

just turned one year old yesterday,

so we're already starting him on the career path,

so we're gonna get him going,

but I think that's a longer term plan,

and we're gonna find out from David and Stuart some ways

to get him started,

but if you're interested in your kids' plan,

you think they're good, checking out their UTR,

you start having those questions,

and say, "Hey, can we play some college tennis?"

We've talked to Billy Pate previously,

we've talked to Luke Jensen,

we've talked to some others about the college recruiting process

about how UTR is used,

as well as how our local coaches are integrally,

is that integrally?

They're integral to the process of getting those kids

to be able to play college tennis,

and we brought in two of the most competent

that we know to have this conversation,

so Bobby, good morning,

I appreciate you actually being in the same room at the same time.

- Good to see everyone,

thanks guys for coming out, we appreciate it.

- I appreciate it, yeah.

- Yeah, thanks, David and Stuart,

so we will start, if you don't know David and Stuart,

they are UTA, which is Universal Tennis Academy,

but they work for Universal Tennis Management,

is the management company that handles that.

The academy is the on-court presence,

correct me if I'm missing anything,

I think it's fairly straightforward that way.

You guys manage nine facilities currently, is that right?

You've had as many as a couple hundred in the area,

so you've been around,

and since the mid 90s catch me up,

David, catch me up on where you started,

you bought a property and ran a club,

and then took over the world,

well took over the Atlanta world from there, right?

- We were just trying to make tennis better, so,

yeah, so we started back in 1996,

we worked at a couple of clubs,

and then we bought our first facility,

Chad Huchplantation, Marietta in 1997,

and then in 2009,

was when the city of Atlanta was needing some help

managing their tennis centers.

They were estimated to be losing over half a million dollars a year,

and when the recession came,

they were either gonna have to start shutting down

some of those facilities,

or they needed somebody to come in and help them with it.

So we looked at as an opportunity to one,

help the city to grow the sport,

three create jobs at a time when people were losing jobs,

and then from there, we kind of turned it into

a management company,

where, as you mentioned,

we have many locations around the city,

and we all enjoy teaching.

I mean, that's a part of our lives,

and so, yes, there's a management component,

but the biggest part of what we do is the teaching

from complete beginners, five-year-olds to kids

that wanna play in college, to adults, to senior citizens,

we kind of run the gamut as far as who we teach,

and where we teach.

But as far as where I got into the college recruiting side of things,

I grew up in Boston, I went to school at University of Virginia,

didn't really have somebody help me that much with the process,

and when we started our academy down here,

several of our original kids had interest in playing in college,

and our overall goal is to try to create things

that we didn't have kind of as a junior,

so college recruiting process was one of those things,

and we've learned that if you spend two years,

four years, six years, eight years with a family,

it's always nice to be able to help them with the process,

and then hand them over to a program

where you feel like they're gonna continue to grow,

as tennis players, but also as people.

- And I like that a lot, that's the concept

of what's the phrase we use, Bobby, is making tennis,

making Atlanta tennis even better than it already is.

- Be better.

- Be better.

That's gonna be our new tagline.

- Be better.

- Yeah.

- And it's the kind of thing where the podcast is trying to do that,

we try to do that with GoTennis,

are we actually doing something good for Metro Atlanta tennis?

Are we helping somebody rather than just going out

teaching, making money?

And I feel like, I don't typically work on field,

I typically work on numbers, but I feel like UTA

is the type of organization that is doing its best

to help Atlanta tennis.

Is that an easy thing for me to say, Stuart?

Is that--

We let the customer base at all of our different sites

kind of dictate each one's gonna have some different demands

or different specialties.

So when David spoke about whether it's an adult population,

that's looking for more, whether it's the juniors

that are looking to play college tennis.

Came from a background where, when I grew up in,

as far as tennis, way back in the day, one of the aspirations

that I constantly heard whenever I was in the teaching profession

and I'm in play for professional tennis,

I wanna play for professional tennis.

And the reality is, and I haven't done the numbers,

but how many kids that are getting involved in tennis

are actually gonna play at that elite level.

And finding the pathway is a tricky, tricky

because every different customer base,

whether it's by where they are demographically or whatnot,

is gonna be different needs.

So, UTA providing this as a service,

some of our facilities, it's not necessarily needed

because the focus and there's nothing wrong with it

could be more on the recreational players

who just, their aspiration would be to play high school tennis.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But what I find intriguing in the entire thing

with UTA, especially, is same thing with David,

I grew up, actually, I was actually a men's tennis coach

at Ronald Collab where I graduated from.

I actually had anointed my senior year.

And the same kind of an idea, I didn't know what I was doing.

I was getting thrown out of the tennis court,

but I found the passion for that team activity

in this individual sport.

And I'm finding that more, whether it's kids

who wanna play high school tennis, whatever,

I've not seen a junior tennis player

that hasn't relished in an opportunity to play.

They love doubles and they love team events.

And we're talking about an individual sport in tennis.

So the idea of blending it has been a passion of mine.

And I know it is of David's, whether it's

on the college side of it, or just in general,

the team concept.

And having it, whether it's with UTA,

I mean, we're a team.

We're not just on an island by ourselves as individual pro

who's trying to figure out what's the best bang for our buck.

It's what does our market or our customer base dictate

and therefore can we provide this service to them.

And I wanna stick with that team idea

and David at some point will get back,

I say at some point, the next thing I wanna do

is talk about the actual recruiting process

because that really didn't exist

when I was in high school thinking about going to college.

But sticking with Stuart on the idea of the team atmosphere,

Bobby and I have worked hard with Joel at T2

and we've created a new league focused on that team atmosphere.

It's a flex league for the high school kids.

And it's not college recruiting.

It's, these are kids that don't have a UTR.

They don't have a U.S. TA rating.

They may just learn how to play tennis

and they wanna make the high school team.

But I think what they wanna do is they wanna be part

of something bigger than themselves.

And tennis doesn't always offer that.

Tennis offers, I love my favorite story,

is the 10 year old with the bag as big as him in the tournament

and he walks, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me.

Hi, I'm Sean and he's checking for, I love that.

I love that about the individual sport

and how that creates that bad ass kid.

And that's, the team atmosphere is different.

It brings that kid into playin' with his friends

and having a great time.

It's, dude, you're big on promoting the team atmosphere,

whether it's high school or college

and what that means to tennis.

My background's been specifically with team.

I have two kids, fairly accomplished.

Daughter who played Division II soccer, again, team sport.

And I have a son who has never picked up a tennis racket

and was a very accomplished,

Kenosostate baseball player came through the Juco ranks

and then was able to be very accomplished

at Division I school in baseball.

Again, another team sport.

So I basically took that mindset

and then me coaching in college.

Tennis was more of a team atmosphere.

I started years ago, I participated in all the UST

functions, his own old competitions that they did.

And then one of the ones that stands out to me

that I did was the inaugural season

of the National Spring Team Championship,

which was in Mobile, Alabama, Scott and Lorraine Novak

put on a phenomenal event and started,

I wanna say, 2015.

I could be off a little bit the first year in his existence

and I started that inaugural season.

And that was an opportunity for me to get a feel

for the kids coming from the highest level kids,

level one tournament.

So the highest level kids coming all over the country

but was very intriguing about it was the idea of how much

those individuals that had inspired to be the top in their,

whatever region they participated in,

how much they enjoyed the team aspect of an event

rather than just going out there

and either winning or losing on their own.

And it was an event that was near and dear to my heart.

I started as my inaugural season

and I did it all the way up until the last season,

which I participated in just prior to COVID.

One goal ball as a coach,

which was kind of went out on top, which was great.

But I keep in touch with what was great about it is,

it's amazing how I kept in touch with so many of the kids

that whether it was zoneals or whatnot through the years

and it was simply because of the team environment.

They had nothing to do with their individual.

I wasn't that lightning rod coach.

I do have a lot of energy on the court

but when these kids come, they all know how to play tennis

when you're playing at that level.

But it was amazing to actually decompress for a minute

and watch them actually lose a tennis match

but stay and cheer on their teammates.

Just like in any other sport, my son

who is a very accomplished baseball player

had to sit his first couple of weeks playing

at his division one school.

What are you gonna do?

You can cheer on your teammates or you're gonna sit there and suck.

And I found, you know, with tennis on the individual aspect

and then you know, he gets his opportunity.

If you get your opportunity,

you're hoping that you put on a good show in front of the coach

that when they do give you an opportunity,

not only you but the rest of your teammates

who are gonna recognize that you had their back

whenever they were doing it.

And I think something that's lost in junior tennis circle a lot

and I just have a passion for the team aspect of it

and blending this idea of this individual sport

and make it more of whether it's high school tennis or whatnot,

you know, the team aspect of it is just something

that's near and dear to my heart.

- And Bobby, you see that a lot

because you've got a local high school that plays at your facility.

It's just an amazing atmosphere even at the high school level

that kids yell and then scream and...

- It is great in it and it, I think we're in a really transitional time

with tennis from the perspective of the old guard,

the old 50 year old white guy who grew up,

unfortunately, in a more individualistic sport,

I like to do it, I came out of baseball.

So everything I did was team that tennis was introduced later

and I always felt like an outcast

because I didn't have come from that mentality.

I came from a group of guys and we cheered for each other

and I think it's great and I love what you guys are doing

and I think we're seeing it a change into the conversations

we had with Luke, Jensen, Billy, Pate and I know Austin Smith.

Austin Smith, one of the things he talks about

not liking the pro-tour was not having teammates.

You know, and the frightening numbers

of how many of those kids who trained their whole lives

to play college tennis then squit altogether.

That's 70 to 75% of D1 tennis players never pick up a racket again.

And you know, that's not healthy.

And I think that the more we can incorporate

what you're talking about, this idea that we're going to root for each other.

I think we're seeing it on the professional level,

the success of the labor cup.

I'd like the changes they made to the Davis Cup,

making it more of a weak internment, I think.

I think those are all things that are going to benefit

and it's going to grow the game and we're trying to do

with not ignore, just focus on the highest level players.

There's a lot of recreational players

that are going to help grow this game

that are going to play high school tennis

and probably not play it collegially again, but that's okay.

If they go to college, there's now club teams.

It's better than doing what we were doing

which was hanging out in bars.

So, you know, I think all this stuff that is going on

is only going to be a positive,

not only for the kids growing up,

but for the growing of the game.

So, I think that's one of our biggest challenges, though,

is it is an individual sport.

And we lose a lot of people to basketball, baseball,

to all these because they want to be with their friends.

I mean, kids want to be social.

So, one of our challenges is, you know, how do we make it?

You feel like you're part of a team.

So, like when we travel to tournaments,

you feel like you can warm up with people

and you can get to root for people,

even though it is an individual tournament.

I do think one of the things tennis offers

that maybe some of the other sports may not

is you get to go to drills and practice

with different age groups, different genders.

And so, one of the things that we try to focus on,

you know, in an academy setting is, you know,

the old kids used to be the young kids.

And when they were the young kids,

you know, the old kids hopefully looked out for them,

knew their name, you know, spent some time with them.

And you remind those kids, hey, one day,

you're gonna be, you know, one of the older leaders here.

And this is what's gonna be, you know, expected of you.

And, you know, it's funny,

'cause when everybody always wants to be playing

with somebody better or somebody older.

- We have that conversation all the time.

- And then we have to remind people, well,

there's somebody on the other end of the net

that is obviously not thinking the same way you are

because they're hitting with your child, you know?

So, it's one of those, you know, building the team unity

in an academy or drill setting is something

that's important, you know, to us.

- There are questions, we're talking about

the cultural aspects of it as far as,

we're seeing it, we're up in Forsyth County

where there's gonna be 70 to 80 kids trying out

for these high school, it's no longer,

we have three tennis players and we're looking for eight warm bodies

to have a tennis team.

So, there's competition now.

And it's gonna be interesting to see how the coach is adapt

to it to make and start, because, you know,

I hate to say it, it's not,

tennis players get away with a lot more than

what you'd get away with on a football team

or a baseball team.

Well, I can't come to practice today, I have this.

- Yeah.

- Well, then you're not playing, you know, you're coming.

Because it's bigger than you, it's a commitment to a team.

And your, I understand you have other things going on

in your life, but if you've decided this is something

that is important, you can't judge it how it affects you,

there's, 'cause there's 12 other people on the,

so it'll be interesting to see how tennis transitions,

especially in our area as the popularity has gone up

so much where it's no longer, hey, I'm gonna make the tennis team.

I'm not gonna make the tennis team in South Forsyth

at Lambert just by walking out.

There's gonna be 40, 50 kids going home,

disappointed each year.

So it's gonna be on the coach to create that atmosphere

and to go to, like you said, when you're the young kid

or you're the borderline kid, you better be trying the hardest.

You better be picking up the most balls.

You better do something that the coach sits there and says,

the Rudy for lack of a better word.

He might not have the size, he might not have the ability,

but if the guy who does have the size

and the ability worked as hard as that child,

that's how you make a star.

So, yeah.

And that was it, okay.

- That was one of the things that, you know,

I'm showing up at this National Springteam tournament,

tournament, and I consider myself

to be more of a tutor than I did a teacher.

Kids that were showing up there are the best of the best.

Or, already no.

I'm not gonna be able to, obviously,

have hula hoops out there and make them a better tennis player

for that week during set event.

But what I am gonna do is gonna create a culture.

And what I've just found fascinating is

the first year I did it, which was the initial phase,

and I learned it was like,

how much involvement can I actually have as a coach?

And it was a typical kids at that level,

what I found where they lost their match

and the first thing they did was they left

to either have a discussion with their parents or whatnot.

And I was like, "Hey, there's one, gonna be one rule

"without I'm gonna have you are staying there

"until this match is completed,

"you are cheering on the rest of your team

"because your point counts just as much as Johnny's or whatnot."

And me being judged as a coach this week is

how our team does, not how you do.

And I was fascinated, okay,

how many kids still would wanna walk off and be that individual?

Like I lost, almost, I'm not gonna say they,

the feeling that the professional was,

I don't care how my team does,

I just care about how I did today,

you know, whether it's win or lose.

And that was the culture I created.

So I wasn't teaching them anything,

I was just teaching them,

hey, if you were, 'cause all these kids are gonna be

a spy in the majority of them, do play college now,

at that level at some point,

I was like, this is gonna be mandatory for you to do.

Your college coach shouldn't be having to tell you this

by the time you show up there.

It's just the facts.

And it was just the same idea is,

you have a job to do, regardless of the result

that you put on there because David said it earlier,

your coach's job is on the line with how the team does,

not how you do as an individual.

And that's a tough sell for a lot of kids

that have grew up in an environment was,

I don't care about how anybody else does,

I just care about how I do.

And so that team, once you create the culture,

I had a couple of good friends that actually lived out

close, and a mere delet played on the Illinois team,

which was probably one of the best college teams

I think ever assembled, came out just as,

just in passing, he lives out close to, in Windermere,

his wife does, or his family does, where without,

and he came out and he just hit with our kids one day.

And I, near and dear to my heart when he said this to me,

he said he goes, the atmosphere out here with your kids

is just like what I felt like at Illinois.

It was just the culture of the atmosphere.

It was like, they're all really genuinely interested

in how everyone else in the environment here

and I was like, wow, that's the best compliment I can get

'cause I'm a team guy, rather than them just worrying about,

there's a couple of kids that are kind of falling off

that day in practice or whatnot,

but the rallying by the other kids to get them

and say, hey, we got this, come on, we create,

that shouldn't be a coach's job.

And that's what I'm talking about in regards to that event.

When I did that event, I was like, I'm two to ring kids.

I'm not teaching kids anything that they're not gonna need

to know at the next level.

And I think that's the part of the team concept

that I would love more people to embrace,

whether it's on high school team or not.

- I hit them, sorry.

In real me, and if I go too far,

but you brought up something,

and I think this speaks to your guys' success,

is that you as an organization or a team,

you are a bigger entity as we spoke of previously

that you all wear your hats and are comfortable

with the hats that you wear.

Even though there's big time coaches,

with big time success, everybody does their role

and does it well and historically is done so.

And I think that starts and it makes it easier

to permeate into your academies when the kids see

what the example that you guys have set,

and the way the success that it is brought to you guys.

And I think from, again, the tennis perspective of,

you got the pro who's got a hopper in the back of his car,

who's going in one facility the next,

he's just teaching tennis.

He's not teaching the nuances of what is going,

you're going to need if you're going to continue to play.

- Finding your niche, finding your niche

and using the rest of the group, the team,

as a resource, and don't be afraid to ask for help.

If somebody finds their niche,

we started out at the facility,

and I'm actually kind of overseeing or was up,

and continuing to oversee at James Creek,

and we found our niche, it was on the female population

of high level players that wanted to aspire

to play college tennis.

And so that was our niche.

Use people's resources, talk to David

and then start to develop some relationships with coaches.

- And switching gears back, I want to talk about,

you say you've got a lot of those kids

look into play college tennis.

I want to switch back to kind of where we started, David,

and say, okay, tell us about the actual recruiting

process, because a lot of people have this picture

of this cloud of who knows who you call and where does it work.

Is there a structure that can be walked through

that just says, you do these things and it will work?

How does that work?

- Yeah, well, first of all, I think everybody's different.

Everybody has different goals.

So, you know, over the last 25 plus years,

we probably sent over 300 kids to play somewhere in college.

My job is to kind of help tell their story.

So usually working individually with families,

it works a lot better because I've got to listen

and some kids are really good when they're 10, 12, 13,

some don't start till they're 14,

some walk in with US News and World Report.

That lists the top 100 schools and they're like, David,

I don't care how much I have to write a check for.

I want my kid to go to the highest rated school on this list

and the very next person comes in and goes,

"Hey, David, I don't care where my kid goes to school,

I just don't want to write a check."

And there's no right or wrong.

My job is to kind of listen.

You know, it's kind of been a blessing over the last 25 years

to obviously we've worked with hundreds of schools.

My job is to not only tell the kid's story,

but also to work from the coach's side as well

because it's not trying to get one over on somebody

and squeeze somebody in somewhere

because if you try that, it might work for a year,

but then the kids are not gonna be happy

or the school is not gonna be happy.

Then they're gonna call me, want to transfer.

And then three years later, when you have a kid

that might actually be a great fit at a school,

the coach is gonna say, is this one for real

or are you trying to get this one past me type of thing?

So I always tell people that because I want it to be a good fit

and sometimes I work just like a guidance counselor.

You've got to set up reach schools,

realistic schools and safety schools

and people typically spend 95% of their time

stressing about the reach schools.

And oftentimes there's no real reason behind that

other than they've seen that team on TV playing football

or they see that they're a top 10 school

and they just think that's where they need to go.

I always say, have you ever been on campus?

No, do you know the name of the coach?

No, do you know anybody on the team?

No, then how do you know you wanna go there?

And so part of my job is to help them start the process,

try to get them to be open-minded

to a lot of different things.

I typically like to start with a bigger list of schools

so kids might have 25 or 30s schools on their list

and then we try to work our way down

'cause really you're just trying to marry one.

It's not like you're trying to pick five,

you're just trying to pick one.

So the goal is, you know, you start,

I start with a list of questionnaires

which just gets families kind of talking

because it's not just a kid decision,

it's obviously it's a family,

it impacts the entire family

so you wanna get everybody involved.

And questions are, you know,

starting to get them think about size of school location,

where do they wanna fit in the lineup?

Do they wanna go somewhere

where they don't have to stress about being in the top six?

Do they wanna go somewhere

where they just can say they're on the team?

That's part of it and then another question is,

some people they need athletic money,

some people might be able to qualify for academic money,

some people might be need-based

and then understanding how that works.

A coach can help tag an application

to help you get through admission,

whether you're getting money or you're not

'cause there are a lot of schools,

you know, your Ivy leagues for example,

they don't have athletic scholarship money

but coaches do have the ability to, you know,

tag your application and, you know, help the requirements,

you know, help you to be able to get into the school.

So my job, we typically start in their junior year.

Sometimes we have people that are a little bit anxious

and I always say, listen, if you're losing sleep

and you're a freshman or a sophomore,

I'm happy to talk to you,

but you gotta remember we're talking about college coaches,

I'm a coach so I can say this,

like some of them don't know where they're gonna be in two years,

you know, and a lot of them are working on,

you know, next year's class.

So even though they got their own list of schools.

Exactly, yes they do.

Yeah, so even though this is the most important thing to you,

it may not necessarily be the most important thing to them

and you get one chance to make a first impression.

So that's why I tell people,

when do you wanna make that first impression?

Are you better when you're a first semester sophomore

or are you gonna be better when you're a first semester junior?

You know, and hopefully they're gonna say first semester junior

if not, they should probably take some time off, I guess.

So, and I also explain to people,

I think there's four parts to be in a good college coach.

One, can you teach tennis?

Two, can you communicate and can you manage a group of people?

Three, can you fundraise for your program?

And four, can you recruit?

And rarely do you find somebody that excels

in all four of those areas.

And there are a lot of great places out there

where some of the coaches, they may not feel like,

their job is on the hot seat.

So they may not spend as much time on recruiting.

We've had kids that have tried to reach out to certain schools

and got no responses after five emails.

And I'm, that's right, I'm like, okay,

well here's where I step in and I can reach out to the coach

and say, listen, you want this person on your team?

I'm not sure what you're doing.

And, you know, and they'll come back and they'll say,

you know, thanks for reaching out, I will follow up.

And then, you know, so that's my job is to kind of help

create the pathway to make the process easier.

- So it is very subjective.

So we're not just looking at, okay, here's,

fill out this form and it's obvious

as to what the next step is.

There's a lot of different variables in that

within each family.

- Yes, for sure.

And that's, to me that's the fun part

'cause, you know, you talk about teaching tennis.

If we were just teaching forehands and backhands,

that gets old really fast.

So, you know, you're working on trying to figure out

how each kid thinks, how they learn, how they process things.

And, you know, I might say one thing to you

and then I've got to say the same thing to Bobby,

but I might have to change the approach.

So I think college recruiting is the same way.

- Gotcha.

And that would morph into, yeah, I know we discussed it,

you know, a lot of kids went through this recruiting process.

UTR and, you know, UTR, they're just numbering.

There's a lot of coaches that do gauge what their interest

or their initial interest in a perspective,

student athlete, and they might look at their UTR

to say, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

I mean, what David does, and it has a little bit to do with it.

And I'm not, it's not that I'm downplaying

the importance of some recruiting services or whatnot,

but we're, you know, David and us at UTR,

we're around these kids on a regular basis.

And we know a lot more of the subjectivity of the things

that we have to consider when recommending someone

to a college coach.

Right, we're seeing these kids on a regular basis,

whether it's a financial, whether it's,

how is this coach going to deal with the parents

of this child?

Because there's a lot of different nuances associated with it,

but UTR, in some cases, I totally understand the idea,

but I like to tell the story about UTR being

more than just a number.

And there's still, this fascination is it's going up,

it's going down on a 13 on a 12 on a 11,

I'm not going to qualify for this school.

Let David or I or a couple of us maybe have a discussion

with a coach that might not downplay the importance

of a UTR from competitive, but understand

the other variables associated with you possibly

becoming part of their program.

And that makes me think of our conversation with Billy

Pate and Chase Hodges.

And a bunch of conversations, but Billy Pate, specifically,

who says, if you're not a, whatever, UTR number,

is like, you just not playing for me.

And it may not be that--

Not objective of a decision.

If I've got somebody like UTA in my corner that can say,

hey, Billy, I know.

He's a 12.5, whatever that is.

Is it good to have you on my side to be able to call Billy?

I will use him as just the example,

but be able to call that college coach and say,

you need to check this kid out.

He's good for the team here, all the X factors.

And David's going to downplay this,

but he doesn't need to be downplaying this.

When David's getting phone calls from college coaches,

OK, there's a reason they're calling him,

and it's more associated with what do you think?

Then it is the number idea.

And there are coaches that you're absolutely right,

that are going to basically say, they're not playing for me.

But if David or somebody helped them navigate this kid,

he's come to work all day.

He's going to be the best team player you've ever seen.

And he's very careful in how he does it,

because he's not going to recommend somebody

that he knows is going to come back to bite him,

and he said this earlier.

He's not going to recommend somebody that in a couple of years

is going to be like, what were you thinking

by recommending this kid?

But there are times where there's going to be some tough fits.

I mean, one that came to mind was probably 15 years ago.

I told the coach, he said, this girl is going to come in

and play number one for you.

I said, she's going to be a pain year rear.

She might not get along with the other girls,

but she's going to win you a lot of matches.

And she stayed there for two years and did exactly that.

She called.

She said, I'm ready to transfer.

Coach called me after that and said, I just want you to know.

You told me exactly what I was going to get.

And I got it.

And I was willing to take the chance.

So that was good.

But getting back to your Billy Pate story, you know,

certain schools, they might have a baseline

as far as what they're looking for.

It worked.

UTR is a starting point.

Get me close.

Yeah.

But I would turn around and I would go to Billy.

And I'd say, all right, those kids are 12, 5,

and you're looking for a 13.

I'd go, how good a coach are you?

He's going to be even better, so.

Or if you could--

Because I'm going to be able to say,

I've watched this kid for the last eight years.

I know what this kid has in the tank.

I know where he's heading.

And that goes back to the telling of the story of the kid.

And you know, UTR is just a--

it's a number, like we said.

But I always tell families.

I said, you know, think of it this way.

A coach has got eight to 14 spots of picking people.

They get to hang out with for 20 hours plus a week,

plus weekend trips for four to five years.

I go, do you think they're going to go based on a number?

I go, is that how you do it at work?

I go, you know, there's also a personality.

Better be like them with it.

You need to be-- yeah.

Likeable to their program, right?

Likeable to their culture.

And I think that that's a part of it.

One of the things that comes up to families will be like,

oh, this school wouldn't be interested because they just

take foreigners.

And I'm like, well, wait, first of all, I go,

that school may be a great fit.

I said, most college coaches would tell you.

Our job is to get the best team that we can get.

I'd love to get Americans.

But they may not be at the level that we need to be at.

And I had two teammates at Virginia.

One guy was from Haiti.

One guy was from Mexico.

They were two of my favorite guys on the team.

Two guys that I could not stand was a guy from Georgia,

and a guy from Tennessee.

So I would not be discouraged by that at all.

I think I've never had a coach say, I'm not interested

in Americans.

But what they will say is, hey, my job is based on how we do.

So I think that being open to learning

about different coaches and their philosophies,

and really, I can't emphasize enough,

and you can start this at any age, just getting on campuses,

watching practices, going to see matches.

Because stuff you see on the internet,

you don't get to see in person.

Being able to watch how a coach and a team

interact with each other, being able to watch how teammates

interact with each other.

Yes, it's great to win, but how do they handle themselves

when they lose?

I was fortunate.

I played for a coach who watched me lose a match

at Kalamazoo one and one, and he still wanted me on the team.

And I said, well, I do want that.

He said, well, I saw you were fighting at 5-1 in the second set.

You came off the court and could have a conversation with me.

I'm not expecting people to win all the time,

but I'm expecting people to compete.

And maybe that's a bit of it as well, is that work ethic.

And I think that's why you've got a lot of non-Americans

on the team.

And maybe this is a question to ask,

and say, OK, I played NAIA.

And it was a lot of guys from outside the country,

and they worked so hard.

And it might have just been because that's what it took.

It was that much more important to them

to be there at the school playing college tennis

than it was for me, because I was just there for my father

to pay the bills for four years so I could put a band together.

Playing tennis was fun.

I enjoyed it, but it wasn't a life-changing concept

where some of these kids, maybe in the Atlanta area,

they're a little spoiled, Bobby.

I think you've made a comment of that to say,

they don't really need it.

There's that work ethic, isn't there?

I think it's cultural.

And I don't say that for-- I said the sport itself, first of all,

because it's not a team sport, because,

better or worse, your parent is playing a very big role

in the situation and the indoctrination

from where your parent comes from.

There's so many things that we can't control.

Again, what I hear and what I love and what they do

is what we're trying to do is try to break down the walls

and some of the things that get in the way of tennis is success.

And part of what they do, because they're so good

about being a team within their organization,

where in their own hats, they have the ability

to offer things that most coaches don't feel

they have the expertise, time, whatever reason,

because they have other things that they have to do.

I get it.

The problem with tennis historically is the coach,

if I don't know what I'm doing,

I'm too stuck up or too, just called David Stalin,

and say, David, help me.

I have a great kid.

Could you help the family with the process?

Now, he can't give the personal endorsement,

because he might not know the kid as well,

but at least he can be a gateway and start

the child in the right process.

And I think that, of course, the board of problem with tennis

is that we don't communicate enough as coaches to say,

hey, this is just because this is not a poor reflection.

I don't have the time.

How can I find the kid?

When I was at Whitecombs, I had a couple good kids.

I was like, listen, I can't coach you in here.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't love to.

Of course, I'd love to coach a kid

who's actually a good tennis player.

I'm going to send you to winward.

Go see the guys at winward.

They're close by.

They can provide for you what I can't provide.

I think that's the responsibility of a quote unquote coach.

- Yeah, but take me to probably go on

where you're thinking Stuart,

which is those recruiting services,

which is the system that helps the coach,

maybe my coach in high school,

doesn't have the time or the energy,

or even just the expertise.

I mean, so many tennis coaches are convinced these days,

they have to wear all the hats.

If I'm just working for myself,

we've got a lot of those guys here.

Really just working for myself.

I gotta wear all that.

I gotta do everything, or I'm gonna lose this kid,

or there's no longer gonna be my client.

But I think the families are gonna appreciate

going to someone who is an expert in that.

And you guys know a lot about those.

They're plenty of recruiting services.

I can go to the dot-nets out there

that kind of help me through that system.

I think UTR has all their new magic systems

that are supposed to help,

and I haven't researched any of that.

So I gotta lean on you guys to help me understand

those services.

- We meet with Chase, a good friend of mine.

Chase actually, Ron Oak,

Ron Oak Virginia, where I was actually a coach.

He was actually, there are two rival country clubs

that came in the area,

and Chase was actually one of the directors there,

Chase Hodges, which is one story short.

(laughs)

Tennis is a small circle of people,

but we had this discussion with them.

And it was like, yes, the recruiting service is gonna,

getting back to Bobby's point

about the recruiting services versus the personal touch

and or whether it's UTR.

Telling people the story is the end.

We talked to Chase about this.

Getting back to having somebody as a number,

and that being an important idea,

not to tell you a whole story,

and it doesn't tell the recruiting stories of,

what if I told you that the majority of the backdrop matches,

this person pulls out.

Just don't play,

because they don't want it to impact their UTR.

And I know Chase eluded to this in the podcast

when he did it,

it all impacts your UTR.

So let's get rid of that.

- Let me have some misunderstanding, yeah.

- But it's a misunderstanding,

but the bottom line is we still have kids and parents

allowing that to happen.

Even in the USDA circle,

you can look back at USC tournaments across the board

and look at the backdrop and the consolation matches

and how many kids are pulling out.

Right, if you're a college coach,

then we're able to tell you the story,

and but you're able to look and see withdraw, withdraw, withdraw.

And unless the kid doesn't injury and that tells me a lot

about what I don't want on my team.

The kid is not ready to be out there

and go back to your point about the foreigners

versus Americans, they don't want to play.

They want to play matches.

And if it's important to a coach

that this person just plays matches,

regardless of a winner or loss,

or how it's going to impact their UTR,

that's a character flaw that somebody needs to tell

the story to before it bites you in the butt.

And that-- - Is that a character flaw

or is that a coaching mistake, a parenting mistake?

Because it's not the kid usually making that decision, right?

- Could be, could be, because we hear the kids,

this UTR, they're studying on a daily basis,

their UTR number, and it's like,

if I play this kid, it's going to go up or down.

I don't know if it's the parent,

but I tell you right now,

it is coach's responsibility.

Either to intervene one way or the other,

and basically say, okay, we don't do that.

We play, okay, unless there's an injury

when I just a fine line, we play matches.

We don't let, you know what I'm saying?

That's something that I think we need to tell the story

and do a lot better job of is,

when I look at back draw matches,

and I say, I'm not playing,

but I actually have heard kids say,

that's not gonna help my UTR,

so therefore I'm playing out.

- That's a problem.

- I think though the issue is a technology problem.

When everybody here was growing up,

I learned how good I was, February of the next year

when a little book showed up in my house,

it told me what I was ranked.

- Yeah, that point, I thought about it for about a day,

and I was like, oh, it's okay.

Oh, it's better than I thought, right?

And the next day I went back out to playing, right?

So we spent all of our time focusing on getting better,

where now with technology,

we're human beings, we like control,

we like to be able to manipulate things, right?

And so we're always trying to figure out the system,

right?

And so we've gotten away from doing the things

that we need to do to get better.

So what are you doing to your game to improve?

Not what tournament am I not playing?

So I can't hurt my rating.

You know, I had a girl,

she wanted to be top, this was probably 10 years ago,

she wanted to be top 15 in the South,

and I said, "Grey, I said, how are you gonna do it?"

She goes, "I got it all worked out."

She's like, "I'm gonna go to Little Rockark

and saw Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

I'm gonna go to Jackson, Mississippi.

I'm gonna play these events.

The draws will be weaker,

I'll pick up more points, and I'll be top 15 in the South."

And I looked at her and I said, "Well, that's one way to do it."

And I said, "Here's another way."

And she looked at me and she'd write something down.

I said, "Why don't you start beating people

that are top 15 in the South?"

And she looked at me like I had three heads,

and I walked away and I was like,

"That's where I feel like we have a problem,

a perception problem."

UTR came around a few years later,

and from a recruiting side of things,

because you notice we haven't talked really anything

about USDA rankings.

We've been talking about UTR.

- Still got to get into Kalamazoo right now.

- Right. - Right.

- Play the Orange Bowl,

and you got to figure out how to do that.

You got to manage both, right?

- Right.

- But 10 years ago, and I'm talking to a coach in Michigan,

I'm saying, "Hey, this kid is eight in Georgia."

Well, that translates to 12 in the Midwest,

and that translates in the top 30 in Peru,

and so you're trying to translate.

So the one nice thing about UTR,

at least it makes us closer to be able to compare apples to apples,

and it's taken the international part of the sport,

and it's kind of unified it.

So, and even Chase said,

it helps me from making a mistake.

It doesn't help him make the decision.

- Correct.

- The number, like Stuart, you said,

it's more than just a number,

but it doesn't tell the whole story.

- Absolutely. - Maybe we just taglined UTR.

(laughing)

But it was saying,

it helped me from making a mistake.

It gets me in a better apples to apples,

as you said, point of view.

- Yes, so from recruiting side of things,

it has made it easier,

but to my other point, the technology side of things,

I've never had anybody say,

"Hey, I think my UTR is too high."

You know, it's typically--

- Mine probably is.

- Okay.

(laughing)

But it's one of those things where,

you know, I think kids and parents,

you know, I think they're,

we're way too into technology,

like, and we're getting away from

what parts of my game I'm trying to work on.

And if I'm working on something,

guess what, I might take one or two steps back,

but if I'm playing a tournament that weekend,

I'm gonna try those things that I'm working on,

probably not.

I'm gonna go back to what I'm comfortable with

'cause I'm worried about the technology

that's gonna happen Monday morning, you know?

So I feel like that hurts us.

- It's one of the reasons we brought up this T2 League,

is if I'm not worried about my UTR for a match,

what would I do?

If I'm not worried about college recruiting for a match,

hey, what happened over here?

Oh, I certainly worried the whole match

'cause I got a, the doubles thing coming up

and I stayed at the baseline, I just hit only drop shots.

Whatever it is that I get to work on,

that we did back, that's what we all say back in the day,

right, that we did saying,

hey, you know what, I went to work on something.

I needed to work on something.

We look up and we watch the professionals

every once in a while,

and what did Alkaraz lose to that guy?

And you go, okay, maybe he was working,

that's my first thought is maybe he was working on something.

Maybe even those guys do a little bit of that,

but also managing schedules, is that part of it?

Yeah, that's gotta be part of it, right?

Adaptability, adaptability on a match by a match basis

at the next level.

But look at the success, go back to our point earlier

about team atmosphere, the success of someone like,

whether it's a John Isner or whether it's a Benchelle now,

they were all talking about their college experience.

They don't just talk about,

and it's so well-rounded in when they speak about it,

it almost sounds like that's the highlight of their life.

I mean, those people are gonna relish in these team events.

I mean, John Isner always talks about his time

at University of Georgia, Benchelle is on a regular basis,

Brian Shelton, who actually was coached, you know,

George Deck, you know, did a fabulous job, I think.

Amanda McDowell, who was NCAA single champion,

that worked with, went to George Deck,

came through our program, whatever.

But these people, the well-rounded aspect

of those people and their adaptability,

I look back and I say, that kid genuinely loved college, right?

And not just a success on the pro tour,

when I watch Benchelle, that's what, I say a college player.

I don't see a professional tennis player right now.

I say a college player that's, that worked in,

wasn't distraught of a losing in individual match.

Might have been working on things, I'm sure,

I think he played at one point, it started there at six singles.

You know, it worked his way up, high in the lineup.

I'm sure we didn't lose the match.

Because he was a football player, originally.

Yeah, that's why the reason is why he's probably not burned out,

but exactly.

Right, exactly.

Just that atmosphere of him losing a match,

but feeling like his team was still successful,

I think it's just huge for kids.

So whether it's playing high school tennis,

I have never once had a kid,

and I know there were coaches out there

who say, don't play high school tennis.

Coach has no one to talk about.

I've never once done it, because I understand the atmosphere

that's it, right?

So more important than worrying about the math teacher

giving your player bad advice.

Nobody's screwing up their forehand.

Majority of the high level players

are going to be the best player on the high school team.

Right.

Well, you got a job to do, bring up the rest of the group.

Right, right?

That's your job.

And that was a tough thing we had growing up.

And I pointed you, David, just because you talked about the back in the day

and how we used to find out what our ranking was,

that we physically wrote down our scores, trying to remember them, right?

But then when you look at the high school time frame,

I played high school tennis with Jason Steele,

who's one of the coaches in the four-cyth area that's helping us.

Yeah, that's helping us.

We played a high school on the same team at the same time,

but we didn't practice with the team.

Because the rest of the team, I was recruiting off the chess team.

It was like, guys, all right, you're tall here.

Stand here and whack the ball when it comes to you.

But we don't have that problem anymore

with the numbers in certain counties,

where I'm picturing this, though, is the better players.

It comes back to that, my kid.

I always wanted to play with a better player.

We all have a good answer for that.

I'm surprised it's still a thing,

because all the coaches we talk to have a good answer for that.

But the better players, being part of a team,

and being able to bring in more than themselves

and see that larger picture for themselves,

is more than just the UTR.

It's more than just even what my coach says, yeah, yeah, he's a good kid.

But is he a good teammate?

Yeah.

Is he somebody that can handle adversity?

Is he somebody that can help somebody else handle adversity?

Because what's tennis?

It's a microcosm of life.

And typically, how you handle yourself on tennis court

is going to be how you're going to handle situations in life.

So we use it as a way of getting to connect with people

in the next generation and hopefully be impactful

so that the way they handle and learn how to handle adversity

will take that with them for the rest of their life.

Making better people, right?

A small sample size of that, we call a story that happened

in the second year that was a national spring team championship.

They awarded gold medals to each participant on the team.

There was a year that there was a second year I was there.

There was a team at one.

I did not coach this team.

There was a team that won and one of the individuals

that played in the younger age division did not win one single match.

And he still won a gold ball or gold medal.

Because he was part of the winning team.

He lost every single match doubles and singles.

And he still won and there was an uproar from not all.

So I cannot believe this individual won a gold medal

and didn't win a match.

Didn't tell the whole story.

The kid was there like he was participating

in something bigger than me.

It's not like he lost every match and he was wearing it on his chest.

He was cheering on the rest of his teammate for the rest of the week.

So I was like, and there were actually parents.

I believe who were writing in on this story

saying that the kid didn't deserve a gold medal.

How many out of teams?

My point was I almost would refuse to coach if this kid didn't win a gold medal.

I would never coach there again because this kid was part of that.

And my point is I could not believe there was an uproar

that this kid didn't lose much because they don't know what this kid was doing.

Now if this kid was running off and sulking and crying

because he lost every single match, OK?

I mean one thing different probably didn't deserve it.

But they let the coach make that decision for that.

This kid lost a match and was still cheering on the rest of his team the entire rest of the day.

They're not winning a match.

I guess what ceremony?

He got a gold medal just like everyone else on that team.

I go to a base ball reference.

I go to a baseball reference.

Of course, Bobby, I strike out every time in the world series.

My team still wins.

Do I not get my right to get your ring?

You get a ring.

And that's where the team aspect just makes a huge, you know, makes a huge difference.

As we always talk about we get these round tables

and four more shows.

I've already popped up in my mind being by far the oldest at the table.

Though I have to do it, I think, by three weeks.

I laugh at you guys talking about technology.

My idea of technology was, well, I'm so old.

We didn't even play tournaments.

That, you know, people asked me, what was your ranking?

I was like, ranking.

I was 20th at my club.

I didn't need to go play someplace to lose.

I could lose any day of the week.

Now, I didn't know that we had great cash, Chris Garner, Randy Vignan,

Sven Saluma.

I mean, there were some serious players playing the, obviously, were coached by King Van

Austria and John Van Astrand, Molly, Molly played a wimble, so, you know, a whole different story.

But I didn't need to go anywhere to be humble.

I could go out any day of the week and get my butt handed to me.

So that's number one.

The other thing that I hear and I scream and I always laugh about, obviously, the culture

of the sport.

And how much responsibility does that come from a higher being?

We talk about it.

The idea of tennis etiquette.

How, that is, the importance of it, his died.

And, you know, I get things evolve and it might be old fashioned, but I think there's always

something that you should take out of that.

And it's just the idea of the respect for the game.

I think we, we, we, we laugh it a little bit about what we are on in Atlanta with the idea

of the out-of-player.

This is a mommy-driven sport.

In my opinion, in Atlanta, tennis is mommy-driven.

And mommy's played out there, which is great.

We have a bunch, you know, unbelievably successful, but how many of them judge their value as a tennis

player?

You'll ask him, "How'd you do today?"

And immediately they give you a one or loss.

I didn't ask you whether you want a loss.

I asked you, "How'd you do today?"

Did this stuff that we're working on in practice come into being, "Well, you know, and knowing,"

as David said, "Well, you know they're not going to work on their second top spin serve,

because they got to get it in.

So they're going to tap it and they're going to wonder why the second return was nailed

at them.

Like, guys, really, if you want to win, you need two strokes in Atlanta."

Don't you want to be a tennis player?

That's a whole different discussion we can have.

So I think the culture, be it the sport, or being where we are at because of how tennis

is evolved here is makes it very challenging.

And then the interesting one, as we just talked about, too, as we're seeing more professionals

coming out of the college ranks, do you see that changing the dynamic as well?

And what, you know, the future holds for tennis because with COVID, there was a fear that

men's tennis might go away entirely.

But now, all of a sudden, you're seeing more and more kids who have gone to college coming

out on the tour and having success.

And this is a little bit different.

And, you know, is that going to change the way we look at college and the way maybe in

this country will make people wake up to the fact that it's not about?

I think it bridges, I think it helps bridge the old philosophy, which was the young kid who

was becoming an elite tennis player.

The first thing on their mind was I want to play professional tennis.

I think by seeing this evident with, I don't know the whole story, but I do know what I see

doing with my eyes.

I think seeing the success of some of these college players to do it, I think there's another,

it helps bridge.

It's a very viable option.

Yes.

And I'm not just talking about the division one athlete.

I'm talking about whether it's division two, whether it's juke-o, for the right reasons,

to be able to, the first thing on a kid's mind, which, near and dear to my heart is to

be saying, I aspire to play at the next level.

And the next level is not professional tennis.

The next level is entertaining, if I can check a box and play collegially.

And they're seeing it, and I'm sitting in front of them.

And I think that's where it really helpful.

And don't you think that's going to help the idea of cultivating the team more?

Because now, like you said, when I was growing up with, and I was going to play professional

tennis, my coach looked at me and said, look, you're 120 pounds, you're graduating high school,

you could probably, with your ability, your effort, we could play D1.

You're going to sit out a year.

We got to put about 40 pounds on you.

I didn't want to sit out a year.

I knew I was still going to be five-nine at the end of the day, and I wasn't going to play

professional.

So growing up in New York, we didn't have the collegiate sport powerhouses that it is down

here.

So it just wasn't part of my thinking.

It wasn't, so I think that's great the way it's going now, that it's becoming, so that should

lend itself more to these kids getting exposed to a team environment, hopefully earlier,

and maybe getting rid of some of that mommy and daddy influence.

I mean, I've never passed judgment, but you look at people who made a foregone, the college

route to play professionally, the Corrigal Office of the Koch Office of whatnot.

I've never downplayed this, it's very successful in what she's doing.

Well, you don't know if she was to go in college, how that might have impacted her professional

career.

I don't know if it's a financial decision for a lot of people.

I don't know if it's more the fact that they just want to be, they want to forego college

for whatever the reason.

But I think it teaches just so much more that you'll be equipped to deal with the adversity

when you're playing professionally.

I look at people like when I watch, and I say this to my students all the time, I look

at people that are constantly out there and don't look happy.

Yes.

And it's a couple of professional tennis players who stand out when I watch them play.

They're constantly looking at their coach's box for assistance, hands on the head and whatnot.

Versus kids, the kids, people that have gone through the college, I've been here before.

I've done this rather than looking at mom, dad, or so forth on a regular basis for guidance

on why are they failing today?

You don't see it as much in the college ranks.

I don't know.

I think college is a great bridge, right out of the program.

There's a bigger jump from high school tennis to college tennis, and there is from college

tennis to pros.

Sure.

Sure.

And I think that college tennis won to your point earlier.

It gets people out on their own.

They're making decisions.

They're turning into adults.

They're living and getting acclimated by themselves.

And that's what they need to do when they're on the tour.

So why not be at a place where somebody in many cases are paying you a lot of money to

chase a yellow ball, get an education?

You're not pushing all your chips into the table, like you would be if you just go straight

from juniors to pros.

And you're making lifelong friends and you're going to be in an environment that you wouldn't

get on the pro tour.

So I think you're finding more of those players are enjoying it and they're seeing they're

getting a complete experience in a team sport, which is going to help them later.

And to our point, we did something with Tim Siegel, former coach of his son, if you're familiar

with the story.

And to do the event, the amazing part to me was his teammates from Arkansas 40 years ago

still come.

What do you need us to him?

And they all show up and they still are that bond is still there.

And you talk, you know, there's no atheists in Foxhole type mentality.

All the great parts about the team environment you make friends with a commonality that you've

been never met before.

And not to laugh about it because it wasn't well-department.

You know, thought about, you know, you hear all these kids now with the mental health issues.

Couldn't getting growing up, putting it back a little while, getting in that environment

where you feel like you have a support system because let's face it, what is Novak have,

even though Novak came out, he's got a team.

He's got eight guys that travel with him.

Number 200 in the world does not have eight people traveling with them, right?

They don't have that luxury of having a team.

There's very few people at the, even at the elite level that have that team in their box

with them, you know, most of them.

If you look at who, you know, and how few people make money in tennis, it's a different thing.

So how can we do expose this more and make this more of the route that should be taken or

looked at seriously because it's going to have my friend and we probably on Andre Janisak,

you know, Andre played top level North Carolina.

He said, Bobby, tennis, as you said, tennis prepared me for life.

I got to hear no a lot.

It prepared me for sales.

I lost a lot of matches.

I lost a lot of points.

Well, a lot of people tell me no in the business world too.

It comes full circle.

I like that.

Back to tennis is a microcosm of life, right?

Yes it is.

I've got one more thing I want to ask before I ask you guys a king of tennis question.

I'll give you each of that because we're running down here.

UTA 360.

Who wants to give me, you got a short version?

You got a 30 second version or a three minute version.

You guys got a cool thing that you're helping kids get, it's part of the helping kids get into

college thing, right?

For kids in our program, basically, we're just, we're looking at tennis and it's now become

more than just hitting balls, right?

So what we try to do is partner with a various, whether it's an orthopedic sports psychologist,

nutritionist, workout person, stretching person.

So we just try to connect with experts in the field in the Atlanta area that are able

to spend some time doing seminars with our kids and really helping them become fully equipped

to be the best player.

And as we talked about, it's physical, mental, psychological, how do you handle injuries

and things like that.

So it's just one way that we just try to do something to be as we first started with.

We're trying to create things that we wish we had when we were growing up and if we can

make the tennis world better than when we started, then we're doing something right.

Not trying to tackle it right, not trying to tackle it all by ourselves.

Yeah.

But go ahead and use in other people's resources, experts in the field to try and create what

would be a comprehensive athlete, comprehensive means it's more than just, like what David said,

more than hitting forehands back into the big serves.

There's nutrition, there's other aspects of it.

So not being afraid to say we need help, like Bobby mentioned earlier, and going out and

finding some experts in the Atlanta area because they're here, the people that near and

dear to their heart, this is their specialty.

And not being afraid to say, hey, can you assist us with this because this is not our specialty.

And that's the team aspect.

Not trying to tackle the law by ourselves, but go ahead and reach out to other people that

might be able to help or group, get better and become more comprehensive.

Yeah.

That's fantastic.

So to finish up, I've got a King of Tennis question.

It's one of my favorite things is I'll let you guys decide.

It doesn't have to be college recruiting specifically, but sometimes in this case, I would say, all right,

college recruiting, is there anything if you were King of tennis, is there anything you

would change?

But I'll allow you to zoom out if you want to about anything in tennis.

But if you do want to stick with college recruiting specifically, I'm good with that as

well.

But I'll ask you each individually, I'll start with you Stuart.

And I'll say if you were King of tennis, whether it's college recruiting specifically or that

pathway or anything in the tennis world, whether it's Atlanta related, is if you were King

of tennis, you could just make a decision, snap your fingers, whatever it is.

Is there anything you would do or change?

I would love to be in whether it's USDA or UTR offices one day with the higher ups,

and basically figure out a way to make team, whether it's doubles or whether team events become

extremely prevalent for the health and sanity of those that are only playing individual

tournaments, singles only, and highlight it.

The only way to do it is possibly to get more points for team events, higher level or

even doubles events, which I know is a tough sell in an individual sport, but to actually

glorify and bring it back the importance of doubles.

Doubles and were team events rather than just every weekend, multiple tournaments that

are basically singles driven.

For a while, I have not found one kid that is used to playing individual singles event

ever said to me, I prefer or really like doubles and I love team events.

And it's I think it's because of the breath of fresh air.

So it came for tennis, I would highlight or glorify more of those events, even if it was

on the professional tour, which I know it's not going to sell, whether it's US Open or

whatever, find it amazing that they only show the finals of doubles, right?

But or whatever it is, whether it's mixed doubles or just that whole concept of bringing

that back, bringing that whole concept of glorifying it, whether it's the Davis Cup, whether

it's the labor cup, get more involved in those type of team events because I think you'll

find that the individuals that are participating find them very relieving as opposed to the

constantly battling it each week on having to judge their own results rather than their

team results.

Good for mental health.

Yes.

Good for the future of tennis getting into league tennis, talking Atlanta specifically so

we need a format and we need an incentivization system.

All right, call me next week.

I need an answer format incentivization.

My King of tennis response is going to be a little bit more geared towards tournaments.

I think we should have some tournaments during the course of the year where when the kids

sign in, the parents also get to randomly select another player in the draw and they have

to go watch that player play as opposed they're watching their own child play.

And I think by the end of it, then parents are going to be less stressed because they're

going to get to watch somebody else play and hopefully enjoy this board of tennis.

Their child is going to be able to tell the parent at the end of the day how their match

went and then they can be happy for the rest of the day.

So how are you going to incentivize me as the parent to not watch my own child rather

than just drawing a rule?

Well, I think there's a lot of parents out there that would like to have less stress in

their life.

So hopefully you'd want to do it.

Stress free, tennis free tennis.

Stress free tennis.

That's exactly right.

I'll think of it in other direction which I think this is a great idea.

It also allows the parents to have more interaction.

I mean, I was telling stories.

I played tennis from the time I was 13 and this is what I do for a living.

I'm 58.

My mother has seen me play tennis one time in my life.

She never missed a baseball game.

In a baseball game, there was a crowd in a tennis match you're isolated.

In New York, you were behind glass.

So you were looking down.

So the ability to feel like there's a purpose for you to go there and then oh, by the way,

look at another child's demeanor and sit there and say, I don't want my child back like

that.

Or I do want my child to look like that.

I think that's one of the best things I've ever heard.

I love the absolute.

And it goes back to what Stuart was saying and I think it compasses everything, the ability

for people to step out of their comfort zone.

So important as we talked about.

Listen, you're not going to be better until you're comfortable stepping out of your comfort

zone.

So love it.

Very interesting.

Same thing with my mother.

Her.

I'm a mother actually knew everyone on my son's baseball team stats.

She knew him by name.

She knew how to cheer for him.

She knew what their stats were.

And not just her grandchild.

So that idea is more of that, but again, that's the team aspect.

She wasn't better than what I was going to come up with, which is more of that searching

for Bobby Fisher thing.

We got to stick all the parents in the basement because they're not allowed to be in the room

because the parents are awful.

And we don't want you around.

We'll just have you watch on the screen.

Maybe we need more of where the Atlanta tennis open has their air condition sweet and all

the parents have to go up there and you have to sit next to the parent that your kid is

playing against and you guys have to cheer and figure that out.

Well, it would teach the parents to make the whole environment.

I mean, I literally heard a story about it.

I think we were talking about yesterday where the child wouldn't play another turn because

the opponents' parents were yelling at them and the kid walked off the court crying.

No, this is that would never happen any place else.

You'd get tossed.

Why does it happen here?

That's a cultural thing that, like you said, I think that's a great way to teach another

segment.

We just have to jump into the next one.

Exactly.

David Stoley.

Stuart Russell.

Bobby Schindler's always.

Thank you so much.

I really appreciate your time.