Continuing our conversation with Laura High, we delve deeper into the nuances of being donor-conceived. Laura's candidness, combined with her sharp wit, offers a rare glimpse into the personal and systemic challenges of the fertility industry.

Laugh Lines and DNA Ties: Laura High's Donor-Conceived Story Part 2

Episode Highlights:

1. Laura’s activism, including protests for donor-conceived rights and her stance against the American Society of Reproductive Medicine (ASRM).
2. The complexities of navigating identity and relationships as a donor-conceived individual.
3. Insights into the legal and ethical challenges within the fertility industry, especially concerning donor information and family limits.
4. The transformative power of acknowledging and sharing one’s donor-conceived status, both personally and in the broader community.
5. Laura’s personal health journey, influenced by her donor-conceived status, highlighting the importance of medical history awareness.
6. Engaging discussions with fertility industry professionals, revealing varied perspectives and attitudes towards donor conception.
7. The urgent need for legislative action and public awareness to reform the fertility industry’s practices.

Guest Bio:

Laura High is a New York actor and comedian. She received her B.A. in Theatre Performance from Nazareth College. Laura has had lead roles on TV shows, and national commercials. Laura performs stand-up comedy at venues like Broadway Comedy Club, Bananas, and headlined Carolines on Broadway. Laura has been featured on the New York Comedy Festival and won the 'Broadly Funny' Divison at the 360 Stand Up Festival. Laura is a rising content creator. Laura has gone viral several times on TikTok and her following has grown exponentially in a short amount of time. Laura writes, produces, and edits all of her own work. 

Resources Mentioned:

• HR 451 (Federal Fertility Fraud Legislation)
• United States Donor Conceived Council (USDCC)
• Documentary: Our Father on Netflix

Closing Summary:

Laura High's story is more than just an individual narrative; it's a call to action for greater transparency and ethics in the fertility industry. Her episode is an essential listen for anyone interested in the intersection of personal stories, advocacy and reform. Don't forget to rate, follow and review Family Twist for more thought-provoking conversations like this one.

Join the Family Twist family here!

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1

This was the very first protest for donor

-conceived rights.

2

And I showed up with a custom -made

costume of me in a sperm cup.

3

Hello and a heartfelt welcome to all our

listeners as we embark on season four of

4

the Family Twist podcast.

5

I'm Kendall Austin Stulst and my life

story is a tapestry of unexpected turns

6

from being adopted as an infant to losing

my adoptive parents by the time I was 17.

7

And then in a twist of fate, finding my

birth family through the magic of DNA

8

testing in 2017.

9

And I'm Corey Stulst, Kendall's partner on

this life adventure.

10

When we uncovered his paternal birth

family's roots on the East Coast, I knew

11

our next chapter was calling us there to

mend the missing pieces of Kendall's heart

12

with the love of newfound relatives.

13

Our podcast began as a single thread, a

narrative of my own, but it is woven into

14

a vibrant quilt of stories celebrating the

complexities of DNA surprises, adoption,

15

donor conception, NPEs, surrogacy, and the

myriad ways families come together.

16

Together, we've been welcomed into an

incredible community with each guest

17

sharing their own family twist.

18

And through it all, we found strength in

each other.

19

Thank you for letting us share our passion

and these remarkable stories with you.

20

The bonds we formed with you, our

listeners, and the stories you've shared

21

have only deepened our commitment to this

journey.

22

Family Twist isn't just a podcast.

23

It's a celebration of the unexpected ties

that bind us all.

24

Thank you for joining us on this fantastic

ride.

25

Welcome back to the second part of our

conversation with Laura High.

26

We continue to uncover the layers of

Laura's experiences as a donor -conceived

27

individual.

28

Her insights provide a rare perspective on

the ethical challenges faced by the

29

fertility industry and the personal growth

resulting from such unique circumstances.

30

Laura's story highlights the importance of

transparency and the need for a collective

31

voice in advocating for change.

32

Her blend of humor and seriousness and

tackling these issues is something we can

33

all learn from.

34

So let's pick up where we left off and

continue our conversation with the

35

inspiring Laura High.

36

Laura, for people who are listening that

might have family secrets out there that

37

they haven't shared with their children,

what did that revelation do to your

38

relationship with your father?

39

Honestly, it changed nothing.

40

We just went back to playing basketball.

41

Good.

42

I was hoping that was going to be your

answer.

43

We just went back to playing basketball.

44

We just went back to singing musicals in

the car together.

45

That's literally, it was just like, okay.

46

Like nothing changed between my father and

I.

47

And I say this as somebody who's like, my

dad and I have had rough moments in our

48

relationship.

49

Never ever once in any of those moments

between my father and I have I ever, ever

50

once been like, you're not my real dad.

51

Never have ever said that, never thought

that, never felt that.

52

Like, no, that man's my father.

53

That man is even.

54

even if I ever had a relationship with the

donor as well, my dad is my dad.

55

That could never for me ever be undone.

56

And especially as an adult looking back

and realizing probably how scared my dad

57

was in that car and knowing how much

bravery it took for him to tell me that,

58

because I'm sure he was scared, had no

idea how I was going to react.

59

I appreciate his honesty and I appreciate

60

the courage it took for him to tell me,

especially in that day and age when there

61

was no support for him or my mom.

62

I really appreciate that.

63

And I will say it, everybody always asks

me, what do my parents think of my

64

advocacy?

65

They're my two number one fans.

66

They're so proud of everything I'm doing.

67

My dad, especially with like all the

politics, because my dad's a political

68

junkie.

69

and it's like all the political stuff I'm

doing, he thinks is so cool.

70

He's just like, who have you talked to?

71

Who are you?

72

What are you doing?

73

And I've had like some interviews with

politicians and he was like doing research

74

on them and he was like, Laura, I have

some questions for you that you can ask

75

them, okay?

76

Like this is what you gotta do.

77

He seems so sweet and supportive.

78

What I would say to those parents is,

79

I think actually with Kerry Washington

came out recently, you know, cause she

80

came out recently as sperm donor.

81

And I think she said it the best.

82

The secret's going to affect the

relationship.

83

And as much as we want to pretend it

didn't happen and bury it, you can't

84

unring the bell.

85

You can't unring donor conception.

86

You can't pretend it didn't happen.

87

It did.

88

It literally created your child.

89

It created their body.

90

And there's a couple of things with it is

when you bury it up as a secret, one,

91

there's going to be shame instantly,

whether you are aware of it or not.

92

And that child is going to carry around

that shame.

93

And this all could be very subconscious,

but the fact that you are not like openly

94

telling your child like, yes, this is how

we created you.

95

This is the magic in which we became a

family.

96

That infertility shame, that fear that you

have, you're going to pass that on to your

97

kids.

98

And I know that many parents are gonna be

like, no, I won't, no, no, no, they have

99

no idea.

100

And I'm like, yes, they do.

101

It will get passed on.

102

And it's not to like, you know, shame you

or tell you, fuck you.

103

It's just, there's so much going on that

you may not even realize.

104

And it's so common for donor conceived

people to have always said, I always knew

105

something was up.

106

I just had no idea.

107

And Kerry Washington even said it herself.

108

And she said, once the secret was

revealed, she was like, we as a family,

109

experienced healing for the first time.

110

And that secret was now gone.

111

It no longer was weighing down on

everybody.

112

And she also talked about how like she got

to show her dad saying like, because you

113

kept the secret from me, you made my love

essentially, I'm probably misquoting her a

114

little bit, but she was like, you made it

to be like, it was conditional love.

115

Now that the secret is revealed, watch me

unconditionally love you.

116

Right, yes.

117

And that's what I would tell to the

parents who have those family secrets is

118

let the healing happen.

119

It will.

120

It will happen.

121

And I think it's important for parents to

hear that if there's never a secret, such

122

as in Kendall's case, Kendall was adopted,

always knew he was adopted.

123

Those are his parents.

124

Even though they've been gone for decades,

we talk about them on an almost daily

125

basis.

126

Those are his parents.

127

And, you know, I've gotten to know him

just through the stories.

128

Now we've connected with his birth father.

129

And that's his birth father and great.

130

But Betty and Ruble are his parents.

131

And - That's the cutest names, Betty and

Ruble.

132

Oh my gosh.

133

I want to have like children's books of

like the adventures of Betty and Ruble.

134

Forthcoming.

135

We'll co -write them.

136

I think you should.

137

Those are the cutest names I've ever

heard.

138

I can never talk about them without being

emotional and especially in context.

139

with this, you know, I feel so fortunate

that I was, you know, I didn't experience

140

those lies, that secrecy, the potential

stigma that's, you know, was especially

141

back then, you know, I was born in 1970

and I'm from this tiny town where it kind

142

of surprises me that people were as

accepting as they were.

143

And I think it was to your previous point,

because my parents had this,

144

known history of infertility.

145

And I shouldn't say that.

146

My mother had three miscarriages, but I

think the fact that she was never going to

147

be able to probably have a baby, it was

just kind of common knowledge and their

148

friends were so supportive and they had

friends who had adopted children and just,

149

you know, wonderful stories where I got to

be surrounded by kids that were also

150

adopted.

151

And, you know, so it's,

152

I just didn't have the same level of

stigma that I know people that were your

153

parents' age were definitely dealing with.

154

The stigma of infertility that affects, I

think, a lot of adoptees and donor

155

-conceived people, I do firmly believe is

one of the reasons that certainly the

156

fertility industry has gotten away with so

much unethical activity.

157

Because of the stigma, no one talks about

it.

158

No one talks about the struggles, the

emotional struggles, or just the day -to

159

-day, oh my god, my dad texted me, just as

we're on this podcast.

160

Oh my god, it's very sweet.

161

Oh, he's asking me how my shows were at

the cellar last time.

162

Oh.

163

But he's very sweet.

164

He wanted, again, he wanted to come be

there for my first shows, but it was, it

165

was all sold out immediately.

166

But I do think that the fertility industry

has gotten away with so much stuff because

167

no one talks to each other.

168

No one talks about, well, what did the

doctors tell you?

169

What have you been going through?

170

What are they saying to you?

171

And then once the child is born, like, are

you experiencing this?

172

What is happening?

173

Is your kid getting sick or stuff like

that?

174

And I think that the biggest and easiest

thing that we can do, that everybody can

175

do right now to fight the fertility

industry and to help get regulations

176

passed is we need to let go of the stigma.

177

There is nothing to be ashamed of that

you've been going through fertility issues

178

or that you need help with family

building.

179

There's nothing to be ashamed of.

180

So many people need help for family

building and so many people struggle with

181

fertility issues.

182

It's unbelievably common.

183

nothing to be ashamed of.

184

I'm having fertility issues right now.

185

I'm almost through mine, but, and my

fertility issues actually are because of

186

my donor.

187

So, you know, full circle.

188

Wow.

189

It is ironic.

190

I'm almost through it.

191

Wow.

192

I know, I've been on medication now for a

couple of years and I'm almost through it

193

because I had a, what we basically

discovered and I'm very lucky I discovered

194

it very early on, but I have a benign

tumor on my pituitary gland which is

195

located right at the base of my brain and

the pituitary gland controls your thyroid

196

and your adrenals.

197

We caught it before I needed surgery so I

only needed medication to shrink it and

198

now the tumor is gone and we're just

regulating my hormones now, but

199

essentially the tumor in place rendered me

completely infertile.

200

Now the tumor is not genetic, but the

hormonal imbalance that I had been

201

experiencing since I was 13 absolutely

seems to run on his side, because I've

202

talked to other siblings who had very

similar problems as well.

203

So thanks, Papa, for that one.

204

Right, yeah, thanks, doctor.

205

Yeah, exactly.

206

There's just, again, just how significant

these things are that, you know, children

207

should know.

208

Yeah.

209

They just should.

210

And I'm really lucky, but part of the

reason that,

211

I was able to find it in time is because I

knew I'm donor conceived.

212

And it's always the first thing I tell my

doctors.

213

Because always when you go to the doctor,

they're like, do you have a family history

214

of this, of this?

215

And I always tell them, I literally was at

the OBGYN a couple of weeks ago and they

216

were asking me about my history.

217

I'm like, I'm a sperm donor, baby.

218

I don't have half of my medical history.

219

I literally have zero.

220

So on my mom's side, no signs of this, but

I got no idea what's on the dad's.

221

And they were just like, okay, great.

222

And that's...

223

always been in the conversation.

224

So when we were trying to figure out what

was going on with my body years ago,

225

because I could tell something was wrong,

they ran extra tests.

226

And I'm so grateful my primary care

physician was like, I'm gonna send you to

227

the endocrinologist.

228

Cause they just kind of trusted me and

they were like, you know what, she doesn't

229

know half her medical history.

230

And the endocrinologist in a few tests was

like, oh, there it is.

231

There, yep.

232

Wow.

233

Your prolactin is skyrocketing.

234

There it is.

235

And then got me the MRI and got me on

medication in time.

236

And I'm very, very lucky.

237

I'm very lucky that I could tell people

I'm donor conceived.

238

And just so many people my age don't have

that luck where they don't even know.

239

They don't even know to tell their doctor

that they're donor conceived and they're

240

giving their doctors a false medical

history, which gets them sick, which gets

241

donor conceived people killed.

242

It gets their children in trouble as well.

243

Yeah, even though I don't have half my

medical history.

244

just the fact that I can say I'm donor

conceived alone helps me out a lot.

245

Right, yeah, because they're not gonna

necessarily start, you know, pumping you

246

full of stuff that's gonna kill you.

247

Exactly, and they know to run extra tests

and they know to go like, okay, we don't

248

know, let's give her all this extra shit

just in case, just to be safe.

249

And that has helped me out tremendously.

250

Through the work that you do, have you had

interactions with professionals in the

251

fertility industry?

252

Yeah, they love me.

253

We have a great time.

254

Well, so it's really interesting.

255

I would say I have two different

reactions.

256

Either there are industry professionals

who have been like the most supportive

257

people and they're like, yes, yes, thank

you.

258

And they're wonderful and they're so

supportive.

259

And they're like, I love what you're

doing.

260

Keep fucking doing it.

261

Because them as physicians, as people who

took an oath to do no harm are sick and

262

tired of how their industry treats people.

263

and like they have seen it and they have

felt so alone trying to battle this

264

industry and trying taking care of their

patients.

265

So they are sick of this as well, but

they're unfortunately very few and far

266

between within this industry.

267

So that is an interaction that I've had

with a bunch of people within the

268

industry.

269

And that's always really, really lovely.

270

And then there's also some industry people

who are like, I don't really know about

271

this.

272

Can you tell me more?

273

And then like, you know, when I start

talking to them about laws and

274

regulations, they're going, holy shit, I

had no idea.

275

They're like, cause we don't run our

clinic that way.

276

They're like, I had no idea it was this

bad other places.

277

I had no idea these stories existed.

278

Holy crap.

279

And so that has happened, which has been

great.

280

But then I have other industry

professionals who are less receptive,

281

maybe a little less gracious.

282

I was told by an industry professional who

was at, cause we were protesting the ASRM

283

convention.

284

ASRM is the American Society for

Reproductive Medicine.

285

They basically create the guidelines for

the clinics and cryobanks to follow in the

286

United States.

287

Now understand I said guidelines, not

regulations.

288

None of the clinics and cryobanks have to

follow the guidelines.

289

And ASRM should be, in a perfect world,

our biggest advocate.

290

It should be the people, this should be

the group standing up for donor -conceived

291

rights.

292

And they have not.

293

They actively are very like...

294

They care about the clinics and cryobanks.

295

They do not give a shit about donor

conceived rights.

296

And they've made that very, very clear.

297

They care about the bank accounts and

that's about it.

298

And we've seen that from how we've been

treated when the Colorado legislation

299

first was proposed and the Colorado

legislation was the very first sibling cap

300

proposed in the United States.

301

So now Colorado has a 25 family limit.

302

It's still way too high, but it's still

something.

303

And ASRM when the legislation was first

proposed, it...

304

publicly was like, we don't support it.

305

So in my opinion, if you have no problem

putting down stuff, you also have the

306

ability to publicly support.

307

And the fact that they just actively are

not our biggest advocate and they are not

308

actively trying to help us is very

unfortunate.

309

So we protested them to remind them that

we are people, not products.

310

You know, another year in a row, no donor

conceived person spoke at a single panel.

311

And now some of the panels were about like

IVF and that has nothing to do with donor

312

conception.

313

So I'm like, okay, maybe not a donor

conceived person on any of the panels, but

314

any of the panels that are about donor

conception should have a donor conceived

315

person on that panel.

316

That is the ethical thing to do.

317

And it is incumbent upon ASRM to be like,

there was a panel that was all about like

318

how donor conceived people are feeling

about donor conception.

319

And they used AI to sift through all of

like all of YouTube to gather donor

320

conceived opinions.

321

And I'm like, why didn't you just get

donor conceived people to come talk to

322

you?

323

Exactly, yeah.

324

That's really fucking weird.

325

And that should have been ASRM coming in

going, no, you're gonna get donor

326

conceived people, like invite donor

conceived people onto that goddamn panel.

327

There was a panel, I believe about early

disclosure, a donor conceived person

328

should have been on that one.

329

A few donor conceived people should have

been on it.

330

There should have been a donor conceived

person who did get early disclosure, and

331

there should have been a donor conceived

person who got late disclosure to talk

332

about the experiences of both.

333

And the fact that ASRM is not putting its

foot down and ensuring that our voices are

334

heard is ridiculous.

335

And I always say, it is not upon you to

give us, to grant us a seat at the table.

336

We are the table.

337

You cannot have a conversation about us

without us.

338

It is absolutely unethical and you should

be actively making room and you should be

339

doing that work.

340

And they are just actively not.

341

So we protested them.

342

To basically go full circle back to what

you initially asked was, I was directly

343

told,

344

by an industry professional who was at

ASRM.

345

They were like, just like letting you know

the industry, like people at the

346

convention really saw the protest as like

kind of a negative.

347

And I was like.

348

Bitch, it's a fucking protest, yes.

349

Exactly.

350

Yeah, that's good.

351

It's in the name.

352

That means I did my job.

353

Exactly.

354

And I was like, and she said this as a way

like, and she was trying to tell me that

355

like, I'm doing advocacy wrong.

356

And she's telling me like, you need to do

advocacy better in a way that's like more

357

like industry palatable.

358

And I'm like.

359

I'm not here to play with you.

360

And I'm just sitting there going like, ma

'am, in the history of protests, when has

361

the person ever being protested be like,

oh my God, I love this.

362

Look at the aesthetic, keep them outside.

363

This looks great.

364

Oh my God, send them Gatorade.

365

Like what are you on ma 'am?

366

Like it just was like, it baffled me to be

like, I get it, you don't like us, but do

367

you hear yourself?

368

Like this is delusional.

369

You should have said, oh, you're right,

I'll leave right now.

370

Like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.

371

Were we a bother?

372

I am so sorry.

373

You guys think this is a negative?

374

I thought we were just having fun.

375

Exactly.

376

Wow.

377

Oh my God.

378

Yeah, it really just was this like, lady,

give me a fucking break.

379

Right.

380

So I also get a lot of that as well.

381

And we get a lot of a lot of the reactions

we get is like, oh, that's just angry DCP.

382

DCP means donor conceived people.

383

And that's a very just gaslighting

dismissive term we get a lot like, oh,

384

you're just angry.

385

And it's like, yeah, I'm angry.

386

That's actually the very proper emotion.

387

When we find out our mothers were

388

sexually assaulted by these doctors and

legally there's nothing we can do and you

389

guys aren't doing shit.

390

Yeah, actually anger is 100 % the

appropriate emotion.

391

The fact that I find out that like I'm one

of a hundred donor conceived siblings and

392

all of my siblings are sick as hell

because there was a falsified medical

393

history.

394

Yeah, I'm angry or I've been in the

hospital or as one donor conceived person

395

I know had 13 surgeries by the time they

were 15 years old.

396

because of a falsified medical history.

397

And in her words, she was medically

tortured.

398

Wow.

399

Yeah.

400

Anger is the proper emotion.

401

And this is what I always say.

402

It's like, I'm sorry that like, we're not,

you know, more consumable.

403

We're not sweet.

404

And we're just going like, oh my God,

thank you so much for letting us die.

405

Thank you so much.

406

We really appreciate this opportunity to

be killed by you.

407

Thank you.

408

I'm sorry that we're not nicer about it,

but anger is the right term.

409

And the fact that...

410

the industry has continually treated us

like mousepads and not like sentient human

411

beings has got to stop.

412

It's got to stop.

413

And it's not just donor conceived people,

the fact that donors are commodified as

414

well, the fact that recipient parents are

lied to, the amount of recipient parents I

415

have spoken to, and it's so heartbreaking

to hear like, they have three, four year

416

olds and they're like, oh my God.

417

And they're sort of like realizing what

happened.

418

and they're going like, our kid is sick.

419

They've had so many problems and they're

like, we had no idea.

420

We had no idea what was going on.

421

They're like, I feel horrible and awful.

422

I don't know what to do.

423

And it's just this, you can hear that just

pain in their voice.

424

And then when you talk to recipient

parents who lost their donor conceived

425

child because of just the negligence of

the fertility industry, it's like, you

426

just don't forget those conversations.

427

and you hear the pain and the mourning in

their voice and they know it didn't have

428

to be this way.

429

This could have so easily been avoided.

430

So why isn't there more legislation?

431

I think a lot of it is donor conception

education is so brand new.

432

We're just starting.

433

And I think a lot of it just has to be

that we're just telling people why they

434

should care.

435

But...

436

There is some legislation on the table

right now.

437

Like right now we're trying to get H .R.

438

451 passed, which is the federal fertility

fraud legislation, which would criminalize

439

a doctor switching out the chosen donor

gametes for their own or any others that

440

they feel like.

441

So that is one.

442

And you can call your local legislature

now and say, like, please support H .R.

443

451.

444

The bill is bipartisan.

445

It's got like a ton of co -sponsors.

446

It's just stuck in the Judiciary Committee

right now.

447

And we need it to get a date on the

calendar to vote on.

448

So that's one.

449

We also have the Donor Conceived Persons

Protection Act trying to get passed in New

450

York state.

451

This would require clinics and cryobanks

to verify the medical information that a

452

donor hands in.

453

So again, groundbreaking.

454

So if you live in New York state or you

have family or friends in New York state,

455

tell them to call your local legislature

and be like, we desperately need to get

456

the Donor Conceived Persons Protection Act

passed.

457

There are more states who are in process

of also passing their own fertility fraud

458

legislation as we wait for the federal

fertility fraud legislation.

459

Those states, it's gonna become a little

bit more public soon, so I'm gonna wait

460

for those stories to come out.

461

But I will say, just be on the lookout,

more stories are coming out.

462

Yeah, there is legislation that is moving

and grooving.

463

And if you want to find out more ways to

support legislation as it unfolds, you can

464

follow the United States Donor Conceived

Council, USDCC, on Instagram.

465

It is a group of donor can see people that

literally write regulations and literally

466

negotiate with the industry.

467

If you're particularly interested in

fertility fraud legislation, you can

468

follow Eve Wiley on Instagram.

469

She is the one who spearheaded the

fertility fraud legislation.

470

You can also follow Jacoba Ballard, who

was like the head narrator for the

471

documentary, Our Father, which was about

Dr.

472

Klein on Netflix, who switched out the

chosen sperm for his own and now over a

473

hundred patients.

474

So there is legislation coming.

475

But I think right now the way that we get

legislation happening is we need to get

476

more donor conceived stories out there.

477

We need recipient parents, donors like

Dylan, and donor conceived people actively

478

coming forward and telling their story and

showing this is what happened to me.

479

This was the lies that we were told.

480

Because these stories are so horrific, it

actually doesn't take much to get these

481

legislatures to really start to listen.

482

I mean, fertility fraud is comically

awful.

483

And the fact that doctors can actively get

away with fertility fraud because the laws

484

are just not tight enough is just, it's

absurd because this should be an easy slam

485

dunk.

486

These doctors should go to fucking jail

immediately for doing that.

487

There is legislation and it is slowly

coming and trickling out and it's coming

488

out faster and faster as more donor

conceived people are finding their voice.

489

And...

490

speaking their truth.

491

And that was a thing that actually really

happened at the protest, which was really

492

magical to see was there were donor

conceived people supporting each other and

493

coming forward for the very first time in

a very public way, talking about what

494

happened to them.

495

Well, thank you for sharing those

resources because as you said, the more

496

the conversation explodes, then the more

things are going to start to change.

497

Absolutely.

498

And I want to make it clear to like every

parent who's listening to it or every

499

intended parent, it is,

500

Not my goal, it's not the USDCC's goal,

it's not Jacoba Ballard's, it's not Eve

501

Wiley's, like any of these resources that

I just gave you, no one is trying to stop

502

donor conception.

503

No one is actively trying.

504

I think donor conception is, in a perfect

ethical world, a wonderful way to start a

505

family.

506

It's a great resource if you need

fertility, if you're having infertility

507

problems, if you need assistance with

family building, I want you to have your

508

family.

509

I want that for you.

510

but I want it to be done in a way that is

safe and ethical for all parties involved,

511

especially the donor conceived person.

512

So I always want to make that really clear

that none of the advocates that I work

513

with are trying to stop donor conception.

514

We're just literally trying to make it

safe and ethical for you and your child.

515

Right.

516

And I think what we're talking about is

literally pennies on the dollar to do

517

things the right way.

518

You know, it's just, again, with so many

industries, the greed is there.

519

It's like, oh, I couldn't possibly give up

a nickel.

520

Right.

521

Well,

522

And a great way to explain, so this is a

multi -billion dollar industry and a great

523

way to explain it is like, let's use

Dylan's story.

524

So Dylan is a donor who donated at Zytek

and he donated for multiple years and he

525

got paid a hundred, $150 per donation.

526

And he, I believe he made like 20 ,000 ish

dollars.

527

We talked about it like on my podcast, but

it was about 20 ,000 ish dollars.

528

And now one of the things to remember

though is he got paid per donation.

529

So every time he would come in and make a

deposit.

530

Now, when you are a sperm donor though,

one deposit does not equate to one

531

sellable vial.

532

They take that one deposit and they split

it up into multiple sellable vials.

533

It might be as little as three, it might

be as big as 19.

534

19 is the most we've ever heard of.

535

And Dylan's vials went from 1000 to $2

,000 each per vial.

536

So Dylan and I did the math together on

like how much he donated per week.

537

And we sort of, we tried to like low ball

it and be like, let's say they only broke

538

it up into four vials and we played it

very conservatively.

539

But like we did the math, the cryobank

allegedly made a million dollars off of

540

just Dylan.

541

Right, right.

542

Just off of Dylan alone, a million

dollars.

543

And that's just off of the vials.

544

Most clinics and cryobanks charge extra.

545

If you want a full medical history that

was not verified, you have to pay extra

546

for that.

547

If you want a picture of the donor, you

pay extra, you wanna see their

548

handwriting, hear their voice, you're

gonna pay extra.

549

Now what happens if you want to have

siblings?

550

Okay, then you have to buy more vials.

551

Now you have to pay for storage at the

cryobank.

552

So you're paying for storage fees for all

that sperm.

553

They nickel and dime these recipient

parents.

554

So many recipient parents end up having to

take a second mortgage in order to pay for

555

this.

556

So you're right, it's an obscene amount of

money.

557

So the fact that like Dylan made about $20

,000 and this cryobank,

558

allegedly made a million dollars off of

just him and they have way more donors

559

than that.

560

Right.

561

Is absurd.

562

And of course these cryobanks and clinics

have overhead.

563

They absolutely have overhead.

564

But give me a fucking break.

565

Give me an absolute break.

566

That is absurd.

567

And at a certain point, it's like we have

to keep things ethical.

568

Like, I'm so sorry, doctors, you're not

going to be able to buy that second yacht.

569

Right.

570

We have to make sure the sibling pod is

under 20.

571

So sorry.

572

Which is still, still such a moneymaker,

even with the Colorado regulation.

573

You know, if you have 25 family

possibilities, you know, for a single

574

donor, that alone.

575

That still could be 50 kids.

576

Exactly.

577

And that alone is still astronomical as

far as what the cryobank is making.

578

Yeah, absolutely.

579

It's just bizarre to me that we just have

to your point, we have to educate the

580

general population to say, A, this is what

these companies are making, but B, it's

581

unethical across the board.

582

And I might just be a, I still try and

stay very optimistic.

583

And I've talked to so many recipient

parents and the majority of recipient

584

parents.

585

genuinely want what's best for their kids.

586

They really, really do.

587

And I really just would encourage intended

recipient parents to be like, I know you

588

want your kid to be healthy.

589

I know you want your kid to be safe.

590

I know you want your kid to be happy.

591

So help us fight for these regulations now

because before you get pregnant is when

592

you have the most power in this industry.

593

Start demanding change now because they

care about your pocketbook.

594

That's what they care about.

595

They want your money.

596

So you have to wield that.

597

power now because once you get pregnant,

they don't give a fucking shit.

598

They don't care.

599

And they've made that very clear.

600

There are a lot of recipient parents I've

spoken to who are like, my heart has

601

broken.

602

I thought this place cared about me.

603

Apparently not.

604

And you have to wield that power now.

605

So what I would do is like, again, little

things that you can do that can make a big

606

difference.

607

I would call your clinic and cryobank and

ask them.

608

have you supported HR 451?

609

Have you supported the fertility fraud

legislation?

610

And here's the thing, I can tell you right

now, not a single clinic or cryo bank has,

611

okay, only one bank has supported the

fertility fraud legislation and that's

612

Fairfax.

613

That's the only bank that has.

614

Now, Fairfax still has a lot of

accountability they need to take in terms

615

of like crap they've done, but I will give

it to them there.

616

They're the only bank that has actively

supported the fertility fraud legislation.

617

So with that,

618

You go to every single other bank, every

single other clinic and go, I will not use

619

you until you publicly support the

fertility fraud legislation.

620

Use it.

621

Like be like, you need to send in a letter

and then I would use you or ask them,

622

like, do you openly support a sibling cap?

623

Ask them saying, like, what are you doing

to support donor can see people like

624

actively, actively wield that and be very

curt and very just like.

625

No, then I will not use you.

626

I only support clinics and cryobanks that

are actively supporting donor -conceived

627

people.

628

Well, and you don't have to necessarily be

somebody who's looking to have a child

629

through a sperm bank to do that.

630

You can call and ask these questions.

631

Anybody can just call and ask these

questions.

632

Oh, yeah, go ahead.

633

Go have some fun.

634

Like, you got a free afternoon on a

Sunday.

635

Go knock it out.

636

Go have some fun.

637

Make some phone calls.

638

Oh, my God.

639

Go have a good time.

640

But yeah, it's there.

641

But yeah, that but those are ways that you

can actively start doing some small

642

changes that actually make a big impact

because the more that we actively demand

643

the industry to change to change, the more

they will.

644

Because again, they care about money and

they're going to be like, OK, how do we

645

make more money?

646

Oh, shit, we got to do all this other

crap.

647

All right.

648

That's the only way.

649

And that's how we've been able to like get

certain things, I would say, a little bit

650

more normalized within the industry.

651

Yes, absolutely.

652

Well, we really, really appreciate what

you're doing because.

653

You know, we were talking about very

serious subject matter here, but I feel

654

like humor has a place in every

conversation.

655

You know, I think it makes more palatable

for people.

656

It breaks the ice a little bit.

657

And, you know, so thank you for what

you're doing.

658

And, you know, keep on wearing that sperm

costume.

659

Well, thank you for listening.

660

It really makes a big difference.

661

The fact that people are willing to just

listen and hear us out and go like, yeah,

662

that is fucked up.

663

We can change it.

664

There are so many complicated.

665

problems in this world, this one's really,

we can fix this one.

666

We really can.

667

This is one we can do.

668

And it will make a huge impact on so many

different communities in such a positive

669

way.

670

And I genuinely believe in, I'm still

trying to stay optimistic and believe in

671

the goodness of people and be like, I know

that the majority of intended recipient

672

parents genuinely want what's best.

673

Absolutely, absolutely.

674

And hopefully there's definitely some

crossover for our different audiences

675

because we talk about surrogacy, we talk

about donor conception, we talk about

676

adoption.

677

And I'm sure there are people are tuning

in because they are interested in that

678

specific issue.

679

But really, this is just a big community.

680

We're all in this community together, you

know, and yeah, yeah.

681

No, we're all in this together and it all

feeds into one another, like the whole

682

baby business, whether it is surrogacy or

adoption or anything, it all plays in and

683

it all feeds off of each other.

684

And I do believe that we are on the path

to getting reproductive help into a place

685

that is much more ethical for all parties

involved.

686

I do believe that we are entering a phase

where we're starting to go down that right

687

path as it should be.

688

And that's incredible.

689

And I know it's going to be in 10, 15, 20

years, we're going to be in a completely

690

different place.

691

And it is because I do think that we're

all working together and realizing how

692

much we all have in common within that

Venn diagram, especially between donor

693

conceived people and adoptees.

694

There's so many similarities and empathy

that we share.

695

Like I have felt like some of the most

incredible support from like my fellow

696

adoptee advocates.

697

have been like some of our most fiercest

supporters because there's just so much

698

that we understand about each other.

699

Even if we don't have like exact similar

experiences, there's just like, I get you

700

boo.

701

Right.

702

Absolutely.

703

Yeah.

704

Well, again, thank you so much for what

you're doing and thank you for, you know,

705

sharing your story on the podcast.

706

Thank you for having me and have a

delightful day.

707

Thanks.

708

You too.

709

We thank you for joining us on this

insightful journey.

710

Laura's story is a beacon for anyone

grappling with similar issues, reminding

711

us that understanding and healing often

begin with an open conversation and a

712

willingness to listen.

713

We encourage you to engage with the donor

conception stories, support advocacy

714

groups, and stay informed about this

complex topic.

715

Thank you all for joining us on this

journey with Laura.

716

Remember, change begins with awareness,

and each of us has the power to make a

717

difference.