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Are you struggling to build a successful business while maintaining your health and well-being? Discover how to achieve both financial abundance and personal fulfillment with expert insights from a seasoned entrepreneur.

In this episode of the Wealthy Wellthy podcast, Krisstina Wise interviews Vanessa Horn, a successful business owner, sales expert, and advocate for women's financial empowerment. Vanessa shares her journey from growing up in poverty to building a seven-figure business while prioritizing her health and well-being.

The main focus of the conversation is on the importance of developing sales skills as a pathway to financial success and personal growth. Vanessa emphasizes that sales is not about being pushy or manipulative, but rather about serving others and solving problems. She introduces her CLASSY framework for effective selling and explains how mastering this skill can lead to greater financial freedom and opportunities.

Throughout the episode, Vanessa and Krisstina discuss various topics, including overcoming limiting beliefs about money, the importance of work-life balance, and strategies for sustainable business growth. They also touch on the value of investing in oneself through education and mentorship to achieve long-term financial success.

Ready to transform your approach to business, sales, and personal well-being? Listen to this episode for actionable insights and inspiration from Vanessa Horn's remarkable journey to success.

Key Takeaways

2:42 Vanessa's unusual upbringing and poverty

8:59 Achievement as a driver and health challenges

15:53 Rebuilding after health crash and mindset shift

22:25 The importance of sales skills in business

29:40 Framework for effective sales conversations

38:07 Sales as an empowering and highly paid skill

46:38 Handling objections and qualifying prospects

56:17 Money mindset and projections about wealth

Memorable Quotes

"Sales is finding somebody that has a problem and marketing is saying, 'Hey, is this you? We can help.' Then sales is basically saying, 'Here's how we can help. Here's your challenges. Here's what you need help with. Here's how we can help.'"

"I'm much more in tune if I can feel myself getting drained. You have to pay attention to where those energy leaks might be and pay attention to that. A lot of times for women it might be a boundary issue."

"Money is a game. I kind of see it as, pick your favorite board game. Money is the same way. So many times we tell ourselves we're not good at money, or I can't get good at money."

Resources Mentioned

Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill - https://www.amazon.com/Think-Grow-Rich-Landmark-Bestseller/dp/1585424331

Connect with Krisstina

Website - https://wealthywellthy.life/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/krisstinawise

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@krisstinawise

Krisstina's Book, Falling For Money - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0692560904/

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Podcast Production & Marketing by FullCast

They're navigating right this next generation. They're trying to navigate. It's a way different world with AI and the job market being what it is. And I'm like, even my son had a health challenge. He had a massive brain injuries that he's experienced. And I can use what I've been through to support them, to have healthy perspectives in their career, in the decisions that they're making. And I'm also a big proponent, like have fun it.

Vanessa, welcome to the Wealthy Wealthy podcast.

I'm so delighted to be here. Thank you for having me.

Me too. Well, this is so much fun. I mean, I just consider you such a great friend and you have built a beautiful business and you and I love talking about money offline and I love other women that where we could just talk about money, life, business and all the things. So to get started here, I know some of your backstory, but you know, I don't know all of your backstory. And that's where I like to start these conversations is tell me how you grew up. I think you started in kind of a lot of poverty, maybe some difficult upbringing. So start there because I want to know like what developed you, what's turned you into this badass.

You're so kind. I have a very unusual story because my mom is Brazilian and my dad was American, but they both had, and they were, it was in the 70s, I was born in the 70s, so during that whole hippie era. And they were on a spiritual pilgrimage, so they traveled all over the world. And it wasn't, it wasn't a lavish living. They were part of a community called the Rainbow Gathering. And so it's just like whatever it took for them to be able to get into a country and live in this communal settings. And so that's where we grew up with a severe poverty. Until I even when I came to the US for seventh and eighth grade, my dad, I had to get into school. So I was late getting into school as a matter of fact. But there was a guy who was like, hey, if you come to church with me, then I will get you a job painting in my painting business. So that was my dad's job in the US but we were even looking at pictures of where we were living. It was just like a ridiculously small house. And I'm the oldest of five kids. And as a result, I put, I made a resignation inside of myself, seeing us live hand to mouth severe poverty, even at one point, us getting kicked out of the house that we were in because Our landlord wanted to move back in, and we had to move into a church building. And this church building didn't have showers. We lived in the classrooms in the church, but we would have a pass to go to the local university and could get into their locker rooms to be able to take showers. And so these were the environment in which we were living and growing up. And so in that resignation I made inside of myself, and being the oldest of five, I was constantly thinking, how can I create a different life for myself and show my younger siblings that we can break the pattern? We can break the pattern of poverty. There was also a lot of emotional abuse and psychological lack of safety. And so there were all those variables. I feel so fortunate because I was able to, I feel like very early on change that pattern that, like the path I might have been on versus the path that I ended up on and even getting. But it was almost rooted in some subconscious drivers that were maybe not healthy growing up in this environment of poverty. And I would say emotional poverty. I started, like, I remember in second grade when we went to the public school and our first grade, like the first time I was in school, one of my teachers pointing out, like, oh, she seems really smart. Let's have her take an IQ test to be in the enrichment classes and enrichment program. And it all of a sudden it felt like, oh, this is how you are valued. This is how you are recognized and not invisible in the world, is like, you achieve. And so very early on, I got the notice of achieve academically. And so I ended up being top in my class and got into college and got scholarships. And I was on that whole path. And. And I had amazing mentors that in college mentored me. And I remember one of my mentors, I asked him, what industry should I go into? And he said, vanessa, go into sales. Because no matter what industry you're in, it's a skill that's transferable. And in recession, you always have a job, no matter what. And I remember thinking, and he also said, get into gold. Invest in gold. I wish I had done both and had listened to him, but I had dismissed him because I said, sales. Oh, I don't want to be one of those salesy people. I had this studying communications and going later into my mba, but it was. I went the whole corporate career route and everything, but it was the having children that was the huge motivator for me to do something differently in my career. And so that's whenever I started a franchise business and then from there went into the network marketing Industry, became a top distributor, and was able to sell my franchise because we were the fastest growing out of 10,000 franchises. And the skill that made me be successful in that franchise, successful in my. In my. My network marketing business, was sales. Was learning from this woman when I bought the franchise, who I flew down to Texas, and this woman with this southern accent was teaching sales, and I was like, oh, my gosh, she made that look so easy. That was not sleazy at all. It was elegantly walking people through a process. And I was like, I can do that. And so I just took that framework, I took those skills into my businesses that I have now built. My. My oldest, who was the one that was the impetus for me starting my own business, is now 21. So I would. So this was 22 years ago, I was pregnant with him, that I started these ventures of starting businesses. And when I became a Coach back in 2011, the thing I was able to launch and be successful with that. And so when I started to look at the background of, like, what were the skill sets that had me be successful in my businesses, it was the fact that I was. I had nailed that skills, skill set of sales. And so in the last eight, nine years, that's all I focused on exclusively. You and I shared, you know, the importance of health. And during that timeframe, I did have a severe health challenge that just caused me to just, like, shut down my business and say, okay, what can I dial this back to? That is the easiest thing that I could be implementing that takes the least amount of energy so that I can recover my health. And that was sales. And so that grew into the sales agency and the sales education company that I have now.

Wow, thanks for sharing that. So let's go back to that achievement piece. I think, you know, you and I really share that in common. And to be able to get attention from young, like, if you achieve things again, you're not invisible to use your own language. And that becomes that driver, that subconscious drive driver to always achieve overachieve. No matter whatever level achievement you have, it's never enough. You go to the next thing. So it can work really well for a long time until it doesn't work anymore. So where did it stop working? What was the health challenge like? How far into this? And would you attach it to the constant pushing yourself to achieve more, be more, do more, have more, 1,000%.

I would attribute it to that. And the thing about it is, you know, a lot of us have had difficult upbringings in one way or another. And what that does is just causes a impact to our nervous system. So the way I describe it to people, like, sometimes I'm like, I feel more tired or especially when I was going through my health challenge, I feel more tired than the number of years that I have lived. And I think it's that complex trauma situation living in that just like takes a toll on your nervous system. And one of the things that happens is your body produces as a high level of cortisol. And so that's what was happening back in 2017, 2016, when I was going through my health challenge. And in my brain I had always had this like driver mind over matter. You know, it worked for me, like you said, until it didn't. Where I would just push, like I would treat my body almost like it was a treadmill. And if we're gonna run a, you know, seven minute mile, we're gonna put that setting and come on body, you're on for the trek. Until I went through that health challenge and the cortisol response was so high it was flooding my body and burned out my adrenals. And as a result, it was quite a stripping of that. I call it like lifesavers or like crutches, like achievement. And to know that my value, like I could be successful. But I also had this thing that drove me that no matter what setting I was in, I had to be a top producer. I had to be like, if I was going to walk in the room, I had to be try to be one of the most impressive people in that room as possible. And if that meant like even engaging with people, it meant pouring an immense amount of energy into that exchange, even when I wasn't getting energy back. And so you could see like being in this world where you're giving and giving and giving and your value is on how much can you succeed. And then you have what I call an inner whipper, which is like, what have you done for me lately? What have you done for me lately? It doesn't matter you did this in the past. It doesn't matter that, like, what have you done for me lately? It's like this amnesia of this whipper. And when I was going through that health crash, I remember having signs, like I always say, like, there's these little, you'll get these nudges. And then the nudges keep increasing and increasing, increasing until like they're no longer little pebbles that are nicking at you, now it's bricks. And then like I had to get to the point where my body completely shut down, which was a, like, feeling like I got hit by a bus. And still going into that health crash in my head, I was not paying attention to my body because again, my body's along for the ride. I was telling myself, I just need a new team. I just need more clients. I just need a bigger business. I just need 10 million in assets, then I can rest. All these things that I kept telling myself and trying to push my body until my body could not get out of bed. My prefrontal cortex was like, my executive function was offline. My ability to recall names, words was not accessible. And I all of a sudden could relate to people who couldn't get out of bed. Like, that was not something I ever could relate to. And I'm like, I am not feeling any joy related to my work. What am I even doing with my life? I don't have the capacity to get out of bed. I didn't even have the energy that I would calculate in my brain. I could put the laundry in the washer. I could put the laundry, when it's done, into the dryer. But then the thought of, like taking it out and folding it and putting it away, those were three major steps. And I'm like, I have energy to maybe get it all the way through the dryer. And then I'd be like, guys, I need help. Somebody else needs to do the rest of it. I'll have no more energy. I need to just get in bed. And so all of a sudden, that identity that was based on achievement, that identity that was based on having a smart brain. And I should also add in this, in that year, I gained 80 pounds. So anything related to feeling attractive, that was gone. So all of these lifesavers, I felt like I was drowning in the ocean. And these normal things that I would turn to identity and value and security, like, I'm okay, I'm going to be, were no longer available to me and I had to do some deep work. And I'm grateful because I feel like that health crash was almost like a coach that I hired. That's how I have to look at it. Because even if my coach would have said, vanessa, you need to pull back and take care of you, your body is not a machine. You need to pay attention to these signs and build your business in a sustainable way. Don't just focus on topline revenue, focus on profit. Don't focus on being the fastest growing company. Focus on what is sustainable. Like all of these things that my coach would have told me that I would have been arguing with him and would have been like, no, you don't understand. But when my health, there was no other choice. I had to pull back and take care of me and build a different kind of business and be more sustainable. And now every single day I see people that were former vanessa in my 20s and I'm like, girlfriend, you're getting signals right now. Course correct now, because it may not show up in your 20s, it may not even show up in your 30s. I may be like me in your 40s or in their 50s where it shows up, but it's. That's the accumulation of that nervous system of that body that's been treated like a machine. And if you don't have your health, you don't have anything. And so I'm grateful because it caused me to rebuild and understand my worth is not in my success, it's not in my achievements, it's not in what I bring to other people. It's not in what people saying, you're amazing, Vanessa, or my life's been changed because I've met you or you're an inspiration. It's not any of those things, things. And it's the fact that I am a breathing human being makes me worthy of love and belonging. And so therefore I don't have to prove my worth. And so it's been. And not as if I've arrived. Let me be clear, because I do still, I say, like, even with my husband, who we've been married now for 26 years, going on 27 years, I've been the primary breadwinner in my family. And I say like, because of the upbringing that I've had, it was almost like I knew I needed emotional and psychological safety and I also wanted financial security. I needed both. And thank God I chose a man who was emotional and psychologically safe because I do think that's a harder one to find than somebody who maybe, you know, has the wealth side of things, sort of, but maybe not emotionally available. But as a result, he's not driven for achievements and money and all that. But I still have this little girl inside who's scared that I don't want to be like my almost 80 year old dad who is collecting, you know, just under a thousand dollars in Social Security and trying to make his life come together. And I'm supporting him because he's not in a financial position. I don't want to put my kids in that position. So, like, financial security is still a major driver for me and I have to have conversations with myself. That's like Vanessa, you are okay. You have enough money in the bank, you have enough money in investments, you're going to be all right. But my brain does try to make up fear stories of but it could all go away or an investment can go bad and then what? And will I have the energy to do this again and rebuild? You know, it's just like, it just plays games with us. And I say that is just whenever we project these negative potential outcomes, it's just our brain trying to keep us safe. But also I look at it as like it's just my imagination. And I can use my imagination to try to protect from worst case scenario and have a plan B to feel, you know, quote unquote more safe. Or I can use my imagination to be like, what do we want to create? And so I always like, even when people are like, well I could take this job, it pays more, but I don't have any time freedom. I'm always like, wait, hang on, how can we get you time freedom and still making that much right? Like, and I think that's what's accessible to us when we use our imagination for positive outcomes and projections versus negative. But that's the part of me that is still present and I still do work around is that financial security driver that's inside of me that I'm like, I don't want to get to where I'm 90, 80, 90 years old and looking back at my life and be like, dang, why didn't I do that? Why didn't I do that? And then my younger self looking at my 80, 90 year old self and saying, well, don't you get it? I was building financial security, okay, but girlfriend, like, you have your brain, you have your voice. Like, use it for good. Use it for things that just trust the financial security piece. Like you've done hard work to get to where you're at. Like allow yourself the freedom to do more of those things that are just pure joy based. And that's like where sharing our message comes in and sharing and empowering women around money and saying like, hey don't. You don't have to feel helpless in this world. You don't have to feel like you're dependent on a man or you don't have to feel like your previous relationship with money or your childhood experience have to be a handicap to the life that you can create because it's accessible for us. Stepping into knowing our worth and you know, unfortunately our Western society, Western culture, they were a very high achievement and money and success driven society so if you want to put everything else on the back burner, your health, your relationships, your, you know, all of that and just go for success and money, oh, the world will fan your flame and say, keep going, keep going, keep going. And so it just takes a real internal check to be like, okay, what's driving me is this a healthy driver? Is it an unhealthy driver? And the beautiful thing is my sons are now 20 and 21 and I'm so grateful for what I've been through because I can like they're navigating, right this next generation they're trying to navigate. It's a way different world with AI and the job market being what it is. And I'm like, even my son had a health challenge, he had a massive brain injuries that he's experienced. And I can use what I've been through to support them, to have healthy perspectives in their career, in the decisions that they're making. And I'm also a big proponent, like, have fun, like, so if you don't get all straight A's, like, because those were the things I was spending all my time on and I wish I played more. So I'm like, play, enjoy your youth. Don't stress so much about like you have to be making X amount right now. Like you will build and grow into that. You have the skills, you have what you need. And so it just feels like such a rewarding experience to be able to give to them out of having it be a lived experience, not just a cognitive conversation. It's a real lived experience that I get to have these conversations with them.

Well, thanks for sharing that story. I think so many of us can relate to it. And let's shift gears a little bit that there's been this skill set that you've developed, whether it was achievement based or fulfillment based, this thing called sales. And to me a byproduct of sales is something called money. And you and I have, you know, you and I have talked about this, is that as far as like a fundamental skill to develop is a sales skill. And what I found is like working with so many self employed, you know, even, you know, more often than not women there's this negative connotation to the word sales. Like I just want to create. I want to become a coach or I want to become a real estate agent or I want to become a copywriter or fill in the blank. And they can be highly skilled at these things and just want to create, just want to be the best coach or just want to be the best sales professional or just want to be the best copywriter and just. But don't want to talk about sales, don't want to talk about money. They just, they want. That's bad. I just want to stay focused over here. So what do you have to say about that? Like have you found that seem to be true and what's. Yeah, what's the reply or the response?

I think especially for women, I would say, like you said, where I find even when I'm training women in sales, they're like, well, I got to be passionate about the product. Whereas men can sell things and not necessarily feel like they have to be emotionally attached to what they're selling. Interestingly. And when it comes to being a business owner, so now I've had my own business started 22 years ago. The way I break down the framework is there's really four core quadrants that you have to be good in if you're going to run any business. One Marketing. Two Sales. Three delivery. Whatever the delivery is. If you do a product based business, then obviously it's product delivery. If it's a service business, is it service delivery. And then the last is ops, which includes finance, which includes admin, which includes operations. Most people who go into business, the fulfillment delivery, service delivery quadrant is the playground we all want to play in. And when we don't have more sales, we think, oh, I just need to tweak my offer, I just need to add more to my offer, then I'll get more sales. Or oh, I need to create a new program or a new course. Like that one's not selling great. Like let me go create a new one. In reality, that's, that's deterring from the other quadrants that you have to get good at if you're going to run a business. And sales and marketing, if you're good at those, you can literally sell anything on the back end. My mentor years ago was accurate. It is recession proof. It's transferable to any industry. And now my brain, because I've sold so much, we're talking about over a hundred million I have now sold in my career. Having sold that much and having had that many sales conversations and trained that many salespeople, I know that I can tell a good offer or I'm like, okay, tweak this, tweak that, like this is how you can sell that. Because what sales is finding somebody that has a problem and marketing is saying, hey, is this you we can help. And then sales is basically saying, here's how we can Help. Here's your challenges. Here's what you need help with. Here's how we can help. Sales is not. Hey, who are you? Oh, yeah, let me. You're an Eskimo. Let me sell you ice. No, that's not what sales is like. Does an Eskimo actually need ice? If the Eskimo does not need ice, we're not selling the Eskimo ice. Like, that's not a badge of honor for sales to be able to sell something to somebody that they don't need. Sales when you come from a place of service. And I really, because of my experience and my background, emotional and psychological safety in sales is one of my highest values. Because of that abusive relationship I had with my mom, who was, like, trumped my will and overrode and gaslit. It's allowed me to know what it feels like to be in an honoring relationship, and that's what I want sales to feel like in any conversation that I have with somebody, that if I'm selling to you, Christina, and you're like, no, it's a no for me. I'm going to honor your no versus Gaslight. You or a lot of salespeople try to make that person wrong. It's like, okay, if I can see that it would have helped you solve your problem, but it's a no for you. I'm going to honor that it's a no. And I want to leave you with a good experience of our interaction so that if it's a no now, but it's a no if it's a yes later, you'll remember that. I can't tell you how many times I'm on conversations with people and they're like, oh, my God, thank you for how you sold me. Thank you for how that experience felt. Can you teach me how to do that? All those kinds of things. And it gives me feedback that they have felt truly honored in the experience. Now, the secret, though, is if somebody is giving you excuses, service is not buying their excuses. It's not buying the things that might be contributing to them, not moving forward. So you don't buy somebody's story, but you honor their readiness level. And sometimes, like, they're not in the position to hear the value of what you're selling. But if you come from a place in sales where it's like, hey, you have a problem. I have a true offer that can help you solve that problem, I am doing a disservice if I do not show you how to engage in that. I'm helping a Client right now. One of the things that we do is we help clients really optimize conversions of their events, their virtual events. And I was looking at their two day event coming up and they're like, vanessa, we promised them no selling. And we have about 300 people who show up live. And I'm like, how many people actually enroll to keep working with you? And they're like, not really anybody. I'm like, that's a disservice. Because if they're in that workshop and they're like, this is amazing. How do I work with these guys? I call it fino. Feel invited, not obligated. Then we want to invite the people who are asking, how do I work with you guys? How do I take this further? We're giving them information. If the other ones are not looking for that, no worries. But we make it really clear for those who are looking for support to take it deeper. How they can be served by taking it deeper. That is not being salesy. That is being of service. That's saying, hey, I'm going to lead people better than I found them. And if I can help this person with my service, then it. I want to make them aware that I can help them.

Yeah, I think what you've done there is just switch the idea of sales as like this sleazy, pushy thing to like an act of service. And I totally agree. I mean, why do so many women have such resistance to sales? Again, going back to, I just want to do the fulfillment piece. I just want to do. I just want to coach. I don't want to have to sell the coaching service that I offer.

I think because I haven't seen a model or they haven't seen something that feels good for them. Whenever I was marketing the classic, close my course to business owners and I'd be like, okay, here I can walk you through this process of how to sell your services. The number one feedback that I got from women was, oh my God, I did not know that sales could feel this good. Because I gave them words, I gave them a framework that felt that were alternatives to the stereotypical sales. Like, gosh, how many of us, we get on a sales call, we can hear those phrases and we're like, eye roll. Cause it's like, I know exactly what you're doing. I know why you're asking me that question. I can see what you're doing there. And it doesn't feel good when it's like pushing us or resist, you know, being an internal resistance to it. So it's all about bringing down those guards and giving them an alternative. That's one big reason I think also our relationship with money. Like as I mentioned, when my parents came to the US after living around the world, one of the things was that guy who said, hey, if you come to church with me, I'll give you a job. So now all of a sudden I'm in the church and the message I picked up from being in the church was like, it was misquoting. What the Bible actually says was like money is the root of all evil, but it actually says the love of money. So it's like money isn't the root of all evil. But I had this aversion to wanting money. Like I remember being embarrassed by the Think and Grow Rich book. Like I didn't want anybody to know I was reading that book because like, oh, to say you want to be rich, like who do you think you are? Or like do you think you're better than others or whatever. There's like this negative connotations growing up and so I had to do some healing around that to be like, actually when you have money there's so much good that you can do. There's no way I could be supplementing my mother in law and my dad in retirement if I wasn't making money. There's no way that I could pay for my kiddo to go to college these days is exorbitant. His college is a hundred thousand dollars a year. I could not pay for that. I could not. My sister in law was getting a divorce. She was going through an emotional breakdown. Through all of that I'm like, girlfriend, I am going to pay for you to have a catered, you know, experience at this five star hotel, like have, you know, full massage and spa services, et cetera, on me. You just need to take care of yourself, you know, and like you can't do those things or give to your charities if you don't have money. And so it's like reorienting that relationship to money and being able to sell in a way and have the language in a way that feels good. I think those are two big things. And just even the recognition that without sales and marketing, which marketing is just pre sales, but without sales and marketing there will be a limit to your business. I know extraordinarily talented people who are broke because they think just being good at their craft is going to attract clients. And then meanwhile other people who are good at sales and marketing have mediocre offers and are, you know, building seven, eight figure Businesses out of it. I'm like, being good at your craft is you got to put as much attention on being good at sales and marketing as you do on being good at your craft or partner with somebody that's their genius so that you could be good at your craft, but you can't ignore it.

Oh, that's so well said. How do you connect sales and money, my coward? How are they distinct but how are they the same?

Well, sales to me is the fastest way to make money. It's the easiest way to make money. You and I have talked about this, the framework of make, manage, multiply. So you're fantastic at helping people to manage their money. Make it go further so that they're not a broke, high income person who has no money to show at the end of their month and then multiply. Both you and I are huge into investing, having your money work for you. To me, a lot of people would do more in the multiply side of things or sometimes some of the constraints on their managed side of things is that they actually need to make more money. And the fastest way to make more money is to. I always tell my sons, I have three boys, I'm like, sales or owning your own business. Those are. I've had CEOs of companies that I have sold for. Say, Vanessa, you make more than me. I'm like, heck yeah, sign me up for that career. I don't have to be the CEO of a business and be running the whole thing, but I can make as much or more than the CEO by being in sales, which is one of the highest value positions. Heck yeah. That's a skill worth knowing. And then also, if you have your own business, the fastest lever to increasing revenue. As they say, like in bad times, in your business, focus on sales. In good times, in your business, focus on sales. Like, it just growing that side gives you more money to be able to manage and then therefore multiply. I'm at that stage in life now, having turned 50 this past year, where I'm like, everything I'm doing is calculated in growing my passive income that comes from my investments so that I could literally retire within the next couple of years. Not that I will, because I have a lot that I still want to put out in the world, but it doesn't have to like for my expenses to be covered in my lifestyle. And I accelerated funding my retirement, I accelerated funding my investments, all within really the last 10 years whenever I focused on sales and I focus on profitability and saying, hey, I'm not just going to pay for my living expenses. But I'm going to go above and beyond to have this overflow of money that's actually going into investment. So if I'm with people and I'm trying to help them around money, and I'm super passionate about helping women around money because I just think, like, it's another world when you do not feel helpless. My sister was going through a divorce, and she was like, I have. And she had helped her husband build his business. So she was now in a position of, like, on her own single mom. And she's like, vanessa, I'm thinking about going back to school to become a counselor. And I was like, okay, tell me more. And she's like, well, I want to counsel girls like us who didn't grow up with good relationships with their moms. And I'm like, okay, so who would pay the bill for you as a therapist? Would it be the girls, or would it be their mom? Would it be their dad? I'm like, okay, so how much can you earn? How much would schooling cost you? How many years are you going to be out of the job market? And, you know, we kind of did some of those calculations back of the napkin, and I was like, okay, it's going to cost you 30,000 to get this degree. You're going to be out of school for two years, and maybe you'll earn 30 to 45,000. Like, of course there's therapists who make more. But I'm like, what if I could teach you sales? And she's like, oh, I'm not a salesperson, Vanessa. I'm not assertive. I'm not like you. She has a very tender, emotional heart. Like, that's why she was going to be a therapist. And I go, actually, that could be your superpower. And so I said I taught her that. And so then she was now making what she would have made in a year as a therapist per month. And as a result, like, her kid got into some top schools. She can know that his schooling is going to be taken care of. She's now taken the money she did in those years of sales and is investing in medical clinics that she's now starting because she has this extra capital and she has real estate. Like, these are all things of how sales has been able to empower the money side of things in both my life and in the life of those that I love. So that's the connection for me. Yeah, you're a big salesperson, too, so I'm sure you have others.

Yeah, I mean, Just thinking back is the reason why I was just so happy to bring you on as like a true sales expert and then built a sales business around the sales skill is. I feel very fortunate because I mean, I got into real estate when I was young, but not, I didn't just do real estate like most people. I took like six sales courses. And it was no accident that I just became a top producer because of using those skills. And so I guess I think that's my next question. And you and I have talked and kind of joked about this offline, but no matter what, I know I can always easily make six figures. If my business blew up tomorrow, I could go make multiple six figures selling for somebody else and not have the hassle of running my business because I can sell and it's a skill that I own, meaning I know I can always sell something to pay the bills and to have it like. So it's just talk about empowerment. It's a skill and it's a very highly paid skill if you're good at it. And even you said earlier is that some people make more inside the sales organization than the owner themselves. And when the recessions hit in different things, companies keep the good salespeople because they're directly attached to top line revenue. So yeah, the skill. And then with my children as well, the two things that I invested in them outside of college was sales courses and sales skills for that same reason. Not that they're going to be in sales. My son is actually in sales today. But not that they're going to be in sales, maybe as a sales career, but you're selling yourself. You're always selling something, even if you're selling ideas, right? Selling ideas.

You are selling yourself. My son, one of my sons, wants to go into investment banking and he's like trying to get internships. He is selling himself. My other son, he's like, college is not for me. And he decided to go into sales like I had encouraged. And he's now making more than kids who did go to college. And it's because if we understand, even whenever you have young kids, toddlers, you are selling to them. You are selling. If you could enroll a toddler into going to bed, you got the skills to be able to sell. Yeah.

And you and I, I mean, I did like three sales conversations yesterday. So two were directly attached to my offer, but one was selling an idea, like a new potential collaboration and, but using all the same things. So what I learned that, you know, early on that now it's just embodied knowledge. And embodied skill that I think a lot of people don't know is what we mean by skill, meaning there actually is a framework, there's a model, it works and it's been proven. You know, it's played out for thousands of years and it's fundamental. So can you talk a little bit about, like, what is sales underneath that? You know that if you saw it as a framework as opposed to just a conversation, what are the mechanics underneath?

Well, I use my classy framework. So C L, A, S, S, Y is a framework I train my salespeople on, and it just helps them to remember. So the C, the first C is connection in any conversation. And I really love. And this is the other thing with regards to sales that a lot of people don't love is they think sales has to be. I'm going to be chasing people. But if you. There's sales is different. Like, if you can get into the right roles, you are actually like, I consult companies so that the leads are coming to you as a salesperson so you're not having to chase them. Yes, there is outbound and sales development reps type of roles, but there's a lot of roles where you can be the closer. And so the framework for that closing conversation is they've come in, they've indicated an interest. So you start with C, which is connect. Just a quick, like, personalize this, right? And like you in having deep curiosity to who is this person? Can I get their world? That's the posture that you want to be in. The L is lead. If you do not lead the conversation, then the prospect will lead the conversation. And then all of a sudden you'll be done with your time and you'll be like, I did not take them anywhere. They took me on this journey that I just think of it as like, I'm leading. I'm like in a dancing, you know, I'm taking them on this dance. I'm the lead. I need to make sure that their body's relaxed because I know where we're going to end up on the dance floor. I'm not going to force them over there, but I'm going to dance with them until I feel like they're relaxed with me. And so leading is creating an agenda for what to expect on the call. And I always like to get their permission, basically get their permission to sell to them, which is saying, like, hey, you know, in this call together today, I'm going to find out about you, about your situation, what you're having challenges with. If we can Help, then I'm happy to talk through what our options might be to work together. If I feel like we can't help you, then I promise to point you in the direction of anything I feel would serve you more beyond our time together. How's that sound? So now they always say, yes, that sounds great. So they've just given me permission, like, hey, if there's a match here, I'm going to go ahead and tell you how you can work with us. If not, I'll point you elsewhere. So that's the L, the A is ask. That is getting deep in their world. And that's a strategic way, too. You want to ask questions that are related to what your offer solves so you can really agitate. Where are the challenges? The second, then the S stands for how can you serve? How can you show them your framework? If you're selling a framework or if you're selling your own stuff, then you can. The way I explain, it's like Swiss cheese, you can. There's a whole bunch of holes that you know you can fix. The mistake I made early on in selling was trying to fix all the holes on the sales call. And then they'll be like, wow, that was a lot. Like, you've given me a lot of value. Let me go in and implement that. That's not the way to do it. Instead, just fill one hole so you're demonstrating know how and something that of value so they get that you know what you're talking about. And also still pointing out, here's all the other things that we didn't get. So that's strategic presentation of serve and then the solution, which is where you walk them through, how does it work, what do they get? And there's strategic phrases to use at each one of these junctures, these psychological gates, the prospects walking through, so that you're making sure that you're getting buying signs. Christina, how's this resonating with you? What are you liking about what you're hearing? Is there anything I can clarify? On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you say this is landing for you? Tell me more. Like, these are all like little checks that I'm going to do throughout that process. And then the why of classy is logistics. After the yes, you go ahead and if somebody's indicating an interest to move forward, you don't send them emails, give them links and be like, bye, good luck. Fill those in. You do it on the call. You get them properly onboarded so that they can move into possibility versus Just affordability. So that's the framework I use. I had my son sit in early on when I was teaching him the classic closed framework and he's like, oh, you're just really finding out if you can help them and then you're just showing them in an elegant way how your thing works. I'm like, yeah, that's it. And if I can't help somebody, I'm going to be like, hey, you know what, we can't help. But you know who I think can? So and so I've had literally people do social media call outs and saying, oh my God, such high integrity. You didn't try to sell me. You pointed me to so and so. That was such a good fit. Thank you so much. And so that's what I want to do, is serve people in that capacity. And that framework has worked extraordinarily well. I sell 100k packages, I sell 30k packages like on the daily and then the.

I'd say one of the most difficult parts of sales is that first no and overcoming those first objections. Usually the price is one of the first ones. Some, you know, the top two are I don't have time or I don't have the money. So what do you say to those?

One, you want to make sure that you're getting the right people in the door. So sometimes if you are getting people who don't have money and you're selling something that's way out of the ballpark for them and they're going to just be brokenhearted, like there's just no way, like somebody is on disability or fixed income. They don't see themselves being empowered to make more money. They don't have credit to be able to borrow any of those scenarios. Then look at who are you attracting and how can you tweak your marketing to get more of the right people. So I will actually screen out people who are not in the financial position to be right for the offers that I'm selling for. But it gives me feedback. I always tie the investment to what's the cost of an action. And I'll give you an example. When I was going through my health crash, I had a health coach tell me Vanessa is going to cost fifteen hundred dollars to work with me plus labs. They're going to be about another thousand. I was like, $2,500. I'll go figure it out on my own. Well, that was before I went through the complete crash. And meanwhile, I didn't pay her $2,500. My body went into real Decline. I had to shut down my marketing agency. At the time, that was a loss of $70,000 in revenue. I had to lay off those team members. My credit went from upper seven hundreds to five hundreds, which meant when I had to move, I couldn't get the full loan amount for my property that I wanted. I had to come up with more money for the down payment. And all of these things that cost me way more than $2,500 because I didn't take care of my health. And so I look at, okay, what's the cost? What's the path? What's that? If you stay on the trajectory that you're on now, what's the cost of that? Like, how much money are you not making? Or what's it going to cost you if you don't solve this problem? And so when you look at it in relation to that, so the costs or investment of working with you versus them, not in that way, if things turn to a negative downward spiral, then what's that going to cost them? Or what's the value? What's the upside that they would get from. From working with you? And how's that price compared to what they're going to get? And so if somebody says that's too expensive, I can't do that. It gives me feedback. Okay, they're not seeing the value. Or I haven't dug into, like, the cost of an action, right. If I suspect that they could, they're just not prioritizing putting the money into this. And so. But I'm not attached. I'm not attached to, like, not everybody's going to say yes. If I have three calls, I want at least two of the three to close. But for most salespeople, if one out of three closes, that's pretty good. You just need to talk to more sets of three to get a sale. That's it. And the other ones, you don't get so attached. Like, my son will talk to people and be like, oh, my God, these people don't have money to do this. Like, it's such a downer. I never want to be in that position, or I never want to, but my future wife in that position. And I'm like, honey, do not take it personal. Like, bless and release them right where they're at, if they're a no or they don't want to be resourceful. Like, sometimes that's just a mindset thing. Bless and release and just say, next, next. And get better at your skills of, like, how you can overcome that objection.

That's awesome. Let's circle back almost where we started. And how does Vanessa take care of Vanessa now to make sure she doesn't fall into that deeply embedded performance based, achievement based push yourself. That's built into you. What do you do today to run a business, like you said, that is more sustainable? You're making more money than ever, yet you're very focused on putting you first. So how do you do that?

A good question. One, I'm much more in my body, meaning I do versus that previous Vanessa. That was like treating my body like it was a treadmill and I just need to input the numbers and like, you're coming along for the ride now I'm much more in tune if I can feel myself getting drained. Like, you have to pay attention to like where those energy leaks might be and pay attention to that. A lot of times for women it's like, it might be a boundary issue. So it might be like, okay, I am saying yes to that person in my life, but they're actually a big energy drain. Or I'm saying yes to that commitment, but it's actually taking energy out of me. I really need to say no. So I find number one is clean up my commitments, clean up what I've said yes to and say like, have I overexerted myself because it's not feeling sustainable. So that's number one. And it's really. I look at my calendar. I also have found the cadences in which I work best. So some people might think it's insane, but I found my cadence is like longer days. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then I block off Thursday, Friday. I'll do long days, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday because it's like, boom, I can get in there, get it done. I'm in the role, I'm knocking it out. But then when I'm off, I can have spaciousness, I can have more openness to. Yeah, maybe some people call it work. Maybe it's an office day, maybe it's money management, maybe it's household management stuff or whatever I might be doing in those two days. But it just gives me like, I don't have commitments, I don't have appointments. They're just like, it's. Those are my days. I'm much more. I'm like, I feel like I have a part time degree in functional medicine because I've become so attuned to blood sugar, gut health and hormone management. All three of those and the role that they can play in us feeling our best. So. And also, what do I eat? All of those. You Know, diet, exercise, all those things kind of play into that. I also look at times whenever I'm, I'll call it like in my, like autopilot, and I'm like, I'm in autopilot. Pause, take a moment. What? You know, am I coming from a healthy driver or has an unhealthy driver taken control? Because sometimes, and I think a lot of women can relate to this, sometimes I'll just have a low grade anxiety and if I don't pause to reflect on what am I believing or what is going on that's contributing to this feeling right now. So I can really ground that. I can be busy from a low anxiety place. And now all of a sudden I am in the weeds. I can't see the forest for the trees. I am doing the do. My husband's like, hey, let's go on a walk. I'm like, no, you don't understand. I gotta get these things done. Because I'm so in that fight or flight mode that can take over. And so it's just noticing these patterns and also knowing, like, I just have to tell myself, like, you're gonna be okay, Vanessa. If like the other day I was telling my sister I feel like I just need a little baby sabbatical. And so I was like, okay, how can I take a little baby sabbatical for myself? Like, what am I saying yes to right now? What am I saying no to? Can I build in some more days where I just go play and do stuff with my husband or things like that? So it's just being, it's paying attention to those little, those signals before they turn into bricks and definitely before they turn into buses. And I just catch them a lot faster now.

And you know, you're a really great example of a, you know, woman, primary wage earner. I think you're, you've even kind of retired your husband at this point and built, you know, you have a seven figure business and are able to take care of yourself and able to take care of your family. And when you find yourself getting back in it, recognizing it, and pulling yourself back in, back out and just that it is possible, like you're an example of. It is possible to build a business and seven figure business and to be able to take care of yourself and to be able to continue growing and learning and becoming. What's the word? Feeling more psychologically safe and financially safe. One final question, and we've covered this, but just to kind of put that nail in the coffin, how does money fit into that feeling of Psychological safety. I mean, you've been, you've done such, again, just such a beautiful job of just being a great example of a woman who has made a lot of money and continues to do so, built a business with employees and contractors and all of it takes to run a seven figure business, but also have managed the money well and have invested the money. And if you're creating financial freedom for yourself. So what's the money mindset and how do you just how does money fit into this entire equation? What is that money mindset that you have that is kind of built this empire that really is the safety that you want to create for yourself relative to how you grew up?

Well, I wouldn't say I've arrived because I think true arriving is knowing you're okay with or without money. I think that's true arriving. I did a, I've done a course, I've done it now twice. I'm going to do it a third time. I told my son, hey, I'll pay for you to go through it because it's one of the most powerful courses I've been through. It's called conscious you money. And it talks about and it gave me insight that I was a positive projector of money. I positively project amazing things onto money. Money gives me options, money gives me choices, money gives me security, money gives me more play, money gives me more investments, money gives me more travel, money gives me all these different things I project on the money. That's a positive money projector. There's negative money projectors who are more like my husband who's like, sometimes they don't trust themselves with money. They're like, well, I'll just spend it if I get it. Or they're like, I'm not good with money. Nor they put a limiting belief I can't get good at money. Or people with money are, fill in the blank, a negative attribute, right? That's a negative projection of money. So I think coming from a place of noticing what is your projection onto money. And this course really, really helped me see, like even though I'm a positive projector of money, the true freedom is knowing it's not positive nor negative, is knowing that whatever it is that you think money will give you, that you can access that emotion and that security and that feeling inside of you. And one of the things that does give that to me, it's maybe my positive projection of sales, which is like, should I lose it all? I know I have a good skill set where I could make money, but I think also Money is a game. I kind of see it as, like, pick your favorite board game. Our family plays a lot of catan, and my son went to college and they were playing catan all the time. So he came back and he had like all these inside secrets where, like, if you pick this position first, or you put your little village and your walls and your roads on this, where your starting point gives you an advantage to win the game, it's because he got good at the game of catan. To know these little insider tricks and tips to get good at the game. Money is the same way. Money is the same way. So many times we tell ourselves we're not good at money, or I can't get good at money. The best thing my college professors did when I was getting my MBA was they assigned who was the CEO, who is the chief marketing officer, who is the chief operations officer, and then the cfo. I want to be the marketing one. But they're like, vanessa, we want you to be the cfo. And I was like, oh, but I'm not a numbers person. Why are you putting me in the numbers? But I'm so glad that they did because I could prove to myself, oh, this is a learnable skill. I'm actually really good at numbers now. I'm really good at money and managing it because I learned it. I didn't come out of the womb knowing it. It's just something I want to feel empowered around, and so I'm going to learn that. And so it's been that I'm also part of investment clubs that have rewired my brain, that a lot of what we're taught, which is just like, make, save, you know, keep working your gig, and then you're gonna like, somehow arrive and be secure in your retirement. Like a lot of those rules of the game that widely known, just be a hard worker, are not the rules for being good and winning the game. It's actually like one baby example is several years ago, I was having a conversation with somebody and I was like, I had a 15 year loan on my property. And I was like, should I pay an extra $400 a month on my property and pay this thing off in 10 years? The property I'm in now, the interest rate is 2.99%. That would be the dumbest thing for me to do. That's like earning less than inflation on that $400. If I was going to pay into my loan, instead I take that $400 a month. If that's extra and above that could go towards the mortgage or it could go towards an investment that earns me 10% a year. I'm now net 10 up. So absolutely those kinds of things of like, good debt, putting money to work for you, money arbitrage, like, I'm going to take money over here that maybe, yeah, it cost me a 2.99%. I'm gonna invest it over here and get a net of 10, you know, 7% more at 10%. These are all just money games for getting better at money and having it be a resource or a tool that you get to play with. I love being good at it. I love learning. And like, I was able to retire my husband because I got, I understood the tax code. I got into like nerding out on taxes and how. What were the strategies that I could deploy in my business, in my life and with my investments that we were like, my guy that I was advising and working with, he's like, you could save in taxes what your husband earns on his income. You do realize that, right? And I'm like, no, how do we do that? Because he was a burnt out teacher after Covid. So I was like, okay, we retired him. Why? Did we magically make more money? No, we saved that in taxes. And taxes is our biggest bill that we have as business owners. And I'm now in a position where my tax rate is so low, I'm converting money that I put into my 401k pre tax. I'm now converting it. I'm like, pay the tax now. Because I think taxes are just going to go up and that gives me more money that I'm also investing in other things. So it's just if you. We have the mindset of like, okay, we weren't born into this, but we can hire mentors like Christina, we can hire people that can get it, help us be good with our money so we can win this board game, literally. I've talked to people who are independently wealthy and who do not have to work, who had teacher salaries, who had, you know, not for profit companies that they worked with didn't make big money, but they were just wise about how they managed it and how they invested it to be able to multiply it.

Well, you might as well just be my walking commercial. So I love it. Vanessa, you're amazing. Thank you for being here with us today and being just such a shining example of possibility and, you know, the transition and journey from where you started to where you are today. And again, what a powerful money mindset. And with this highly skill set that you have. And now to help other women to achieve the same thing, we'll put in the show notes. You know where to find you. Is there anything that you want to say to close out our conversation today?

No. If anyone's listening to Christina like she's the real deal, I've been behind the scenes, been able to. We cheer each other on in the growth of our businesses. Like, this woman is pure at her core. And if you're attracted to this podcast, it's because you see it too. And I just can put in a huge word of encouragement for anybody to go through your courses. Get good at money. You're absolutely who you surround yourself with and elevating your thinking on money makes such a big difference. And so anybody who's here, congrats, you're listening to this podcast in the first place. But secondly, take that next step. Get support and really up leveling your own money mindset and what you're capable of because you're truly unstoppable and unlimited.

Awesome. Anybody that wants to elevate their sales skills, we're going to put links to Vanessa, to every which way to follow her. And as you can hear, she's such an inspiration and it's the real deal as well. So thank you, Vanessa.

Big love.