Internationally acclaimed saxophonist, composer and producer Aaron Liddard joins Joe Kelley to discuss an extraordinary musical journey.

Aaron shares behind-the-scenes stories from touring with Amy Winehouse, reflects on working around Prince, recalls performing in the "Rehab" video, and discusses collaborations with Bob Geldof, Maceo Parker, Beverly Knight and many others.

The conversation also explores his acclaimed solo album Nylon Man, improvisation, jazz, funk, songwriting, studio sessions and what separates truly great musicians from everyone else.

Whether you're a Prince fan, jazz enthusiast or simply love hearing remarkable stories from world-class musicians, this is an episode you won't want to miss.

And I think, you know, listening to her in the back of the bus, there were several times where I got the, you know, the, the pin pricks up the back of my head.

Yeah, that's the time phrasing, you know, and I definitely found that on stage as well.

And for, for me personally, when a musician can tap in to my spirit directly like that and, and cause a physical reaction, that's, that's because being really anointed.

Right.

Welcome to another edition of Musicians Reveal.

I'm Joe Kelly and I'm extremely excited this afternoon as we are going to talk to a world class musician saxophonist.

He plays a lot of other different instruments, produces, traveled all over the world to perform for his own music and with other bands.

He was a member of Amy Winehouse's band and also has joined the stage with Beverly Knight, Bob Geldoff, Prince and Macy O. Parker.

Wow, that's a lot, that's a lot for a career and I'm really excited to welcome right here, Musicians Reveal.

Aaron Ladard.

Ladard.

Littered.

Yeah.

Lidards.

Yeah.

Either way, thank you.

Thanks for having me, Joe.

Yeah.

Great to talk with you and, and see you.

You're back home in the UK and tell, tell us how your summer went because you were over here in the States.

I was, yeah.

So I tried like I love New York and I love the States and I try to get out when I can.

So I, I just spent a couple of weeks in New York and luckily I think the Charlie Parker Jazz Festival was happening while I was there, which I'd never witnessed to be honest.

It's the first time I've been to New York in, in August, in summer usually.

I usually end up there in mid winter with like loads of layers of coats on and it's still bitterly cold.

So it's like an experiment to go in summer and check it out.

And it's great, isn't it?

I mean as a jazz musician, New York is from, you know, from the, in terms of that heritage.

It's one of the above places of jazz.

Right?

Right.

Oh yeah.

Where a lot of the evolutions in jazz and therefore the evolutions in modern music were kind of were triggered in New York.

Right.

But so it always feels that's got a great energy to, to be there as, as a jazz player, you know.

And I'm sure you've been to the bitter end, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And you, all the pictures on the wall, I mean you see all the legendary performers, Bob Dylan, so yeah, you're right.

Charlie Parker out there, you know, Miles Davis.

You.

You said it all.

It's got a great tradition.

Yeah.

And so I. I guess so.

I've always liked, you know, the.

The.

The.

The scene kind of moves around Manhattan.

Manhattan's a small place, but.

But then it's really vibrant.

And the things, you know, different decade, different areas are more vibey.

And I.

When I first came was about 20 years ago, early noughties.

And I remember checking into my hostel, grab it, grabbing my horn, and getting a subway straight up to Harlem.

And I went Straight up to 125th street to St. Nick's oh, wow.

Okay.

And I remember, like, people had said, you know, you're a white guy.

Watch yourself in Harlem.

And I thought, you know, I'm gonna go to this place.

And I got there and there were some grumbles on the door.

Yeah, don't let the little white kid in.

And they said, look, just go down to the stage and you'd be fine.

And I went down there, and it was lovely.

They were right.

Yeah.

You know, and suddenly I was meeting these guys that really connected to the Source straight away, you know, And I think I ended up jamming at St. Nick's a couple of times that week.

The first time, I went down like a lead balloon because I was coming in, you know, they were playing some sort of.

Some bebop, and I. I just came in and played some sort of Charlie Parker style bebop.

And it was like the vibe was, we don't need that.

We don't need you to do that.

Because he lived there, you know, and it took me a week to realize, and I realized quick that New York really loves fresh ideas.

Yeah.

And like a week later, I went down to the same club and I just played, like, from my spirit, Right.

And they.

They were like, okay, you can stay on stage.

So.

So when they see you walking through the club door, they're like, come on, come on, Aaron.

Oh, no.

They're still, like.

They were still like, what's that white kid doing here?

Quickly go to the stage.

Did you go over to the Apollo Theater at all?

Check it out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was over in March, and I. I went to do, you know, the.

The national association of Jazz Musicians.

Yeah, yeah.

So they had their annual fundraiser at the Apollo in.

In.

And I was.

I was.

I. I went and went and attended that.

That was an interesting event.

So.

So hence the beginning of the.

The release of your solo record, critically acclaimed Nylon man, the ny.

Now, we know New York, spent a lot of time there.

Have great Friends out there now tell us about the, the solo record and why don't we get into a little bit of your background and then we'll touch on the solo record, which is outstanding.

As a musician up in, in hurt.

Right up second.

Well, you grew up in, is it?

Hertfordshire.

Oh, Hertfordshire.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I, I guess my parents are quite a little bit left field, you know, like when I, where I was born was in the cottage with a well and I, it was, it.

I was, my parents got together in the, you know, the summer of love.

And so it was early 70s when I was, when I came into the world and they would, all of their friends, they were the first people to kind of of their friend group to get married and have a kid.

And so their house became the place that you go to hang.

So my first few years I can remember kind of walking around and there's just loads of people hanging out like a little mini festival.

So that's kind of my early years.

I already kind of knew what, you know, how, how special it is to have a group of like minded people knocking around from birth, you know.

You know, whereas most people probably have a more traditional kind of entrance.

Right.

And I was, I was fortunate to realize that I had a musical affinity.

And I mean a caveat to that.

I believe that everyone is born musical and okay, some people's brains are wired more for it and perhaps my brain is wired definitely to hear, you know, perceive music.

I'm lucky, it's wide that way.

But I think the main thing is the best musicians or everyone's born musical and some people are lucky to have been born in an era or a part of the world or to a family where they get to play music.

Okay.

So that's the main thing I'd say that, you know, my folks were quite liked music and my dad had a piano and so they kind of allowed, allowed me to sort of go, you know, explore music a little bit as a little nipper, as a little kitty.

And your, your first instrument I was reading was the tuba, right?

Yeah, phonium.

But I, I couldn't say euphonium.

So my teacher kindly called it a tuba.

I just got to check.

I might have to plug in in a minute.

Yes, official instrument.

At school, like I, I went for brass lessons and the guy, the guy said right, try trumpet.

And I couldn't, I had asthma.

And he said, right, you haven't got the puff for trumpet.

Do you want to go trump?

Trump's quite hard, right?

Or, or tube is quite Easy.

And I went.

I'll go with the easy one.

So.

So, yeah, for a few years, I'd be carrying.

And it was euphonium.

It was about this.

About, you know, about this size.

Right.

That's my first introduction.

And then I think.

I think then I did some piano for a few years.

But you still play a lot of keys as well yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, I.

Actually, most of the keys on the album is.

Is.

Is me playing.

Right, okay.

And I play.

I play in the band.

I actually just got my first keys gig.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

There's a R B artist out here who's just tied me to work, work for her, and I'm playing.

Actually, not.

No keys at all.

Just.

Sorry, no sacks at all.

Just keys.

Wow.

So, hey, that's a compliment to you.

Yeah, yeah.

It's really sweet.

It's nice.

And it's nice to be part of the rhythm section, having spent a whole career being, you know, the kind of on the side of the front line, you know.

Right.

So.

So just.

Just before we.

We talk a little more, the best website, Aaron ladard.com.

And also to get all your music, you can go to band camp as well.

Good, Good site.

You can listen to all the tracks and buy the tracks.

Absolutely, yeah.

Nylon Man.

We'll jump back to your days in Manchester and now presently in.

In London.

But I wanted to talk about the.

This.

The solo record, Nylon Man.

It's outstanding.

And you mentioned different styles.

I mean, I heard drum and bass in one of the songs, and I love Korean Castway.

I know, I know it's got to be a favorite because you.

You play it live.

Working with all those different styles.

And how receptive are your.

Are your band mates to it?

Very.

But I would say it took quite a lot of cajoling to make the record and to.

To get the right band.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's really very perceptive of you, and it's really great to speak something that gets, you know, what's going on there, because.

Right, right.

But it wasn't intentional to have so many genres on the album.

I just.

I kind of.

I kind of like, I hear.

I hear ideas in my head, and if.

If they're ideas that I don't hear in reality, then I consider it kind of almost my duty to try and realize them.

And having played.

Been fortunate to play in so many different genres, it's kind of opened my inner ear up to lots of different, you know, ways of making music, I suppose.

Did you have a.

Or do you still have a huge record collection or, or disc collection for music.

I.

Not huge.

And I, I would say that I definitely respond more to hearing music in the flesh.

Oh okay.

Than listening to recordings while it's you.

I think that's invaluable.

But I get a lot more.

You know, I could hear a garage band of kids that can't play yet and I prefer to listen to that than a recording of Miles Davis.

And most days one of my favorite.

Artists, I, I turn the camera around.

I have a huge print of Miles Davis kind of blue right in front of me.

So.

Yeah, I never saw him play live.

I mean but no, me either.

I was lucky to work with one of his musicians, Michael Henderson on Lies Evil.

Yeah, go ahead.

We spend like three or four months working together.

So.

So I heard lots of stories.

Yeah, so.

So let's get into.

You mentioned live bands.

I mean I, I was reading that at one point.

Were you in Manchester, you were playing with 15 bands at one time?

Here and there.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

I mean, I guess the thing about being a horn player is that you tend to get drafted in once a band is up and running and you.

And the horn is quite applicable to different styles I suppose.

But definitely, yeah.

I mean I was in Manchester for 10 years.

I absolutely loved it up there as a.

Coming from the home counties.

It's the first time I'd really been released into a full on music scene and embraced into it as well.

And within six months of moving there, everyone was booking me for everything, you know, all.

So I was just doing lots of little, little club dates basically and you know, sometimes with with bands that were very polished.

But a lot of the time with we're just.

Someone's got a gig, it's like who can we get?

Who's going to be able to run, roll with, roll with the, the bounces, you know, and it's like that new guy, get that new guy Aaron right now.

Playing with so many different bands and everything.

I wanted to ask you.

I'm not a musician.

I didn't have the patience.

I only learned one song on the piano.

But going into gigs like that, is it essential that you have to read music or you can just go on the field?

I definitely don't think it's essential to read music.

But I do think, and actually to be fair, I, I've always been able to read because it's part of my training.

But there's two levels to reading.

There's been able to sit and work it out at Home and then there's being given a sheet of music and playing it amazingly here, right there.

And then after the click, you know, sight reading.

Okay.

And, and the sight reading side, I didn't really get together until after I moved to London.

Oh, okay.

So I was always able to read, but all of those gigs I was doing in Manchester at that time was by, by memory and by listening.

Okay.

Yeah.

And if, if there were bands with stuff written.

Right.

Written down, then I'd say, can I take it home and, and learn this?

And I, to be honest, I still think that, I think that reading is so good to open up your, the possibilities, you know, because you can, you know, it's amazing.

You can get.

I had a recording session that I ran recently and someone wanted to recreate the, the Frank Sinatra sessions, but with more, more power and more, more energy and more fun.

Right.

And I assembled amazing musicians together, got amazing charts written and put the charts in front of them and count them in.

And having never played those arrangements before, they sounded bloody amazing straight away.

And that's the power of written music, you know.

But then you aim to get beyond the right written sheet because the written sheet doesn't, you know, it's great for, for pitch and for articulations, brilliant.

But for, for representing rhythm, it's terrible.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

And so, you know, rhythm is, is the, the life force of music a lot of the time.

So it's, so it's really important to be able to have your reading to a level where, on your, your reading and your ego of reading to a level where you, you, you want to move beyond it, right?

Because it's a great way to learn, but you want to move beyond it and, and start playing, you know, still using your ears and, and playing from, from here, you know.

Right.

I think so, yeah.

Definitely in Manchester.

It's all, it's just, it's jamming on around ideas more than more, you know, more than sitting down and reading stuff.

Now, now what, what year did you head on down to London?

Now one of, one of the, the biggest moments in your career, at least pop wise and stuff, was Amy Winehouse just a shooting star and an amazing talent.

How did you first come to work with Amy Winehouse?

Yeah, so classic thing that it.

I just happened to kind of meet up with the MD at the right time.

I'd known Dale Davis for a few years since moving down because I'm lucky enough to meet him at a party and and then I.

One of my.

One of my pupils actually had, like, a work thing, and she asked me to put a band together for the work things, and I hired Dale, and, you know, we had a band together that I put together.

And just by coincidence, I just spent my life savings buying a baritone sax.

Oh, wow.

And I.

And I took the baritone to the gig just for a.

Of it, you know, I was like, the horror.

Massive, big case, like a huge case that.

You know, that flight case, like, so heavy.

But I was just like, I've got this new horn.

I'm gonna play it.

You know, let's see what it goes.

You never know what's what.

You know, what life's gonna do for you.

Right, right.

So I. I brought my baritone down to this sort of corporate gig and.

And thought nothing of it.

And then about two weeks later, I got a call from Dale, and Dad's like, are you busy at the moment?

And it's like, no, no, it's horrible.

I've got nothing.

Okay.

You.

Could you do anything next week?

Yeah, got nothing on next week.

Okay.

Now, that.

That horn you brought down to the gig, that was a baritone, right?

Yeah.

Do you like it?

Yeah, love it.

It's the first time I've had one.

I'm loving it.

Okay, that's cool.

And you play tennis.

Cool.

Right.

Let me give you a call back.

Right.

Nothing.

Didn't know anything, any details.

Then he called, but called me back a couple hours later and said, do you.

Do you play any flute?

Yeah, yeah, I've been playing flute since I moved down here, so not amazing at it, but I play it.

Okay, cool.

Right.

Hold on.

I'll call you back a couple hours later.

It's like, right, I want you to come down next week.

The artist is Amy Winehouse.

Wow.

And so we.

We had, like, a whole week of rehearsals, you know, and it's like, I don't know if people sometimes.

So, you know, my job, or the way I saw it, was to listen to the music, learn it all in time for rehearsal, so that when I got to rehearsal, we weren't faffing about the sheets.

We're just playing music together, you know?

And that's always been my approach with.

With the pop stuff, is that I try not to take any sheet music into those environments because it's.

It's disruptive.

So actually learn.

Learn it right then.

You're coming at it with the right energy, you know?

Could you tell right away that she was something special?

I think so, yeah.

I mean, when I joined she was already at that point gearing up to release the second album, Bats Black.

And so she was already the priority artist for.

For her label.

So the.

The.

When an artist in that world gets to that level of priority, the.

It's hard to kind of focus on the music because there's so much business going on around, and.

And it's.

The.

The business stuff is.

Is kind of.

It's.

It's all sparkly and getting in the way the whole time.

Right.

Yeah.

So it.

And it was.

You know, and to be honest, on that first.

First week rehearsal, she didn't really show up.

Oh, okay.

It was just Dale running the band.

You know, she kind of.

She would come, but she'd come, like, we'd be rehearsing from, like, 10 till 5 every day, and she'd show up at like, 4 and.

And just say hi, maybe sing a song.

Right, Right.

You know, so it wasn't.

And, you know, coming from a jazz background where in.

In jazz, you really work together.

Right.

You build a kinship and you build a family, and then you create out of that family.

Right?

Yeah.

And this was more like, you're gonna learn your part, and when I'm ready, I'm gonna sing with you.

Right.

So it's hard to know, you know, and on the first tour we did, I think it had been quite a long time between the recording process and the gigs, and she hadn't really wanted to get involved on the.

On the.

On the rehearsals, so she didn't really know the music too well.

Even though she'd written.

She'd definitely written it because, you know, everything.

It's just.

She'd forgotten it.

Wow.

So.

So.

So it's hard to kind of gauge, you know, at that point, at the start of it, but what.

What really, when I realized how incredible she was, was more.

When we went on the next tour.

We're on the tour bus, and I ended up with the bunk at the back next to the lounge area.

Okay.

So if they were partying, then I couldn't sleep, you know.

Right.

But what would usually happen is that we party for an hour, and then everyone would go to bed or that, you know, that any.

Anyone, you know, the guests on the bus would get kicked off, party a bit longer while the bus is moving, then most of the band go to bed.

Amy would not sleep that much, so she generally want to just chill with.

You know, chill and play some music with Dale at the end of.

At the end of the day.

And so quite often on tour, I'd end up Sort of falling asleep hearing Amy and Dale jamming.

And.

And she'd be saying, oh, what about this song?

And it'd be some country and western thing that I'd never heard of and don't knew it.

And they'd be calling out the chords for her, and he'd go to Davies, acoustic, acoustic bass to play like Little Hoffner, I think he had.

And.

And Amy would just play along and sing all this stuff.

And that's when I realized that.

How special she was.

Oh, right.

A moment the fans don't see.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just.

Just kind of hearing her singing in complete comfort, away from.

Away from the importance of the business.

No business at all.

Just.

Just hanging out and singing.

And I.

What I realized with her is, you know, that what does.

What the fancy is her incredible lyric writing.

You know, she.

You know, it's in.

Into.

You know, she's kind of invented words.

Right.

And, you know, musically, the first album was quite jazzy, and the second one was Motown.

Right.

So, you know, and then subsequently to her doing Motown, every artist decided they'd do a Motown album.

Yeah.

You know, so she.

She's kind of spearheaded that, but actually spearheaded a revival rather than it being a.

Bring a whole new type of music.

But I think apart from all of that, what she was musically really gifted at was phrasing.

Oh, okay.

And so I.

And I. I think the things like rehab, it's the.

The song Rehab, the chorus is really flat.

There's no backbeat.

And.

And I've heard people doing covers of that tune, and quite often it doesn't work very well.

Right.

And it's all down to her phrasing.

And I think, you know, listening to her in the back of the bus, there were several times where I got the, you know, the.

The pin pricks up the back of my head.

Yeah.

That's the time phrasing, you know, and I definitely found that on stage as well.

And for.

For me personally, when a musician can tap in to my spirit directly like that and cause a physical reaction, that's.

That's being really anointed.

Right.

Yeah, so that's.

That's where it worked for me.

You were featured heavily in the.

In the video To Rehab, which is pretty cool.

Tell us about that shoot.

How long was.

Oh, yeah, that was my first day's work.

That was before.

I just remembered.

That was before the rehearsal.

Oh, really?

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, they.

I think that's the first day's work.

They said there'll be a car to pick you up at 6am okay, bring your baritone.

And have you got some pajamas?

Like.

No, sorry, I don't wear pajamas.

Oh, have you got anything a bit, a little bit similar, right?

Like.

Well, I've got this kind of Indian suit, you know, that I, that I bought in Manchester for years ago.

It's like a, like a, like a kind of flowy kind of shirt and trousers.

Like.

Yeah, that sounds good.

Good.

Bring that, bring that.

Okay, so I.

6:00Am Car arrives, got my Indian suit, got my baritone sacks get driven into Portland street where this, this facility is that the BBC have used.

And it's like, it's like a very old Victorian grand house.

Okay.

With, you know, quite a big house with a basement and there's like.

I mean it's don't look like it's been used for anything but film shoots for years.

And there's like in the basement is like a private hospital, but dusty everywhere.

Kind of create strange vibe.

They've got this Hollywood director in with, with, you know, all of his set up.

And when we arrive, the director is sort of shaking his head because the story, the, the, you know, the, the action board thing that he's been working on for six months, he's just had to be ripped up because Amy's like, no, we're having my band in the video.

Oh, right there.

Yeah.

So he kind of had this whole thing laid out and she's like, no, it's.

What I want is like the band of Specials.

Do you remember the Specials?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like, like a Scar band.

Yeah, British one.

And all her videos, the whole band would be in them.

And she's like, I just want, you know, we'll do anything you like.

But I want the band to be ever in everything, like the Specials.

And I want them to be wearing.

Pajamas or an Indian, Indian style suit.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And as it turned out, Jay Phelps, the trumpet player, didn't wear pajamas either.

So he had like an African suit.

So it kind of worked really well.

Right, right.

And then some of the guys had pajamas.

And then the stylist went off to Marks and Spencer's to buy some pajamas for the other guys.

And then we spent 18 hours.

Wow.

So I don't know what time we finished, but.

Late, late, late, late.

And if you didn't know the song, you knew it by then after hearing it.

Yeah, I mean, you know, like.

Yeah, I.

So what I learned a long time ago is that for a horn player, trumpet sacks.

If you mine, it looks you have to play.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

So.

And it's, it's a.

Because, you know, especially trumpet, you know, it's, it's a smack in the face.

And playing quietly is even harder.

But if you don't, then it just, you know, you, anyone can see that your miming is not real.

Okay.

Because you bought, you know, your body changes shape when you play.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

You know, and you end up.

It's just weird if you don't actually play.

You end up pressing all the wrong buttons and, and your heart's not in it.

So I've always.

Since finding out really early, I had a, had a big success in the pop world with band in, In Manchester in the 90s and we.

I found out really early that, that miming on the horn doesn't work.

So for those whole 18 hours I was playing the tune with a baritone sacks above my head.

It wasn't.

It's quite hard work.

It's an ordeal.

Yeah.

But it was kind of fun.

You know, Amy was on side where I think we're just a bunch of musicians together.

And I thought on the video, looks great.

Oh, yeah, right.

Right now here in the States, at least when I was growing up, the Grammys American Music Awards had to be the show you watched as a music lover.

You performed on the Brit Awards.

That's, that's a huge ordeal.

A huge deal too, right?

It is, yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that, you know, from our culture, the Brits are the biggest one.

Okay.

So like we're.

In the last few years, it's, it's become more apparent to European culture that what the Grammys are and what they stand for and, and it's actually just started to become come on our tv.

Okay.

But back at that time, the Grammys were only known about by a few musicians and our big show was the Brits.

And it's.

So, it's televised and it's main.

You know, it's.

It's on sort of 7pm on the main channel, you know, and there's a live audience of thousands.

So it's.

And it's, it's a really big deal.

Yeah, yeah.

And I, I had a funny, fun experience of that when initially I wasn't booked on that gig.

And then so I, I had a studio session with a big band that I was, I was running like an avant garde big band.

Okay.

And I think that day we were recording a kind of 12 tone sort of project of mine.

And, and I know, like, can you do this gig?

And I say, yeah, love, I'd love to do the gig.

Great.

The problem is I've got a studio session in the day.

And they're like, okay, we need you to do sound check.

I was like, yeah, cool.

Can we find a way of getting me there quickly and back to the studio quickly?

So we found a taxi company that have motorbikes.

Oh, so.

So I was, I had to say to the session, I was like, right, I'm.

I'm away for about an hour.

Carry on without me.

This motorbike turns up, helmet on.

Someone had a sax for me at the Brit Awards.

Okay.

Was across town, got.

And, and the taxi driver, stayed outside, went in, got there and, and we did the sound check, picked up someone's horn, did the sound check, got back on the bike, whiz back to my studio session.

So I felt like it arrived at this point.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were get.

You getting special treatment and.

Yeah, where's, where's the grid Awards held?

It was in.

What's that area called?

Oh, try to try and think.

It's West London.

Earl's Court.

Oh, okay.

Old school.

And Earl's Court is a big, big conference center.

Yeah, I've seen the name in concerts and yeah, it's.

Yeah, yeah.

So I remember getting back there and all of the, the clothing people going, oh my God.

So I'm so glad you're here because we're about to go on and people flipping fluffing me.

And then we, we went on stage and 3, 000 people screamed and it felt like, you know, those.

And what's, what's a good example?

The, the Beatles.

The Beatles from the 60s were just.

You can't hear and play because everyone's screaming.

It was like that we could, we literally couldn't hear our own monitors of screaming.

So, so that's the kind of.

The night you're, you're calling all the family members the next day, tell them what happened.

Oh, you just sort of go with the flow.

It's because it's funny on those occasions it's really exciting, but at the same time, it's someone else.

It's not, it's not my music.

I'm just a hired gun, you know?

You know, like I'm a very well trained piece of meat.

You know, I, I've heard, I've heard other musicians say similar things.

You know, it's, I'm just adding to the, to the artist's painting there and.

Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, at that time, I think they just wanted to have a bit more presence.

So they asked me to come and join the show.

Right, right.

You know, now getting, getting towards Amy, Emmy Winehouse and Prince having that mutual respect and everything.

I saw a clip, don't know if you've seen it when, when Amy, I think she was here in the States on mtv and they, they let her know that Prince said, oh, he's a big fan.

He would love to have her join her at the O2 out in London.

And I, I felt, I'm sure you guys went.

I mean, you, you personally knew her, but I, you know, seeing her alive and, and her reaction to that was like, wow, what, what a loss.

But yeah.

Did she come back to the band and said, hey, you believe this?

Prince wants to jam with me?

No, but to be fair, though, she had a lot of stuff going on and like, she was quite, quite minimal about, you know, just saving the right information for the right people.

So the band was just music.

And that would have been, you know, it's kind of music, but.

But it's kind of business as well.

And to be honest, that might have been after I was with her.

Oh, okay.

I remember hearing that interview where, where she's, I think almost.

I think actually she mentions it on the, on the Grammys thing, interview.

Oh, okay.

I think I saw it on there.

Definitely heard her talking about that.

But it's, it's beautiful the way that, you know, we're all humans, right.

We're all just people.

And, and quite often the, the.

What I've seen is like the, the.

The musicians that are the most connected are often able to be connected because their egos in, you know, in a reduced capacity.

Okay, so, so you.

I find that when I meet the most incredible musicians, they're generally so calm about it that you, you have to do a double take to check that it's actually then.

Right.

And, and it's, it's lovely, that kind of thing.

Obviously, you know, with, with Amy and Prince, it's not just that they're the most incredible musicians, they're also the most incredible business people.

Yeah.

And so that, that brings a different flavor.

And.

Yeah, it's lovely when you, when one person in that position has such a great regard for one of the others, like, so I'll give you an example.

Like, so Amy didn't talk about that.

And, and actually, when I was with Prince, we didn't end up talking to him.

And you know, as, you know, it's really shy, so he wouldn't want to talk to anyone, but Bob Geldof isn't shy.

And, and so The.

The first time I met Geldof was in a recording session.

And.

And just to clear the air a little bit, I think I'd just flown back from a crazy party in India.

And he was like, so, how's your deli belly?

And I said, I haven't had it yet.

He said, you will.

You will, right?

And it's like.

So I heard you worked with.

With Winehouse.

You know, how was that?

Because I'd never spoken to her.

Right.

You know, and that.

So.

So.

And.

And I think.

And then he told me a story about when he'd spoken to Prince.

Oh.

And.

And how surreal it had been, you know, because Prince is kind of this whole different kind of character.

Right.

But, you know, so he'd spoke.

He's spoken to almost everyone.

You know, he's so.

He's so well connected, that guy.

But one of the people he'd never spoken to at that point was Winehouse.

And he's like, so tell me about Winehouse.

Yeah, how about the.

Where?

Bob Geldof.

The reunion of the Boomtown Rats.

I saw an outdoor gig where.

Where was that that you played?

So, yeah, we played the Isle of White festival.

Oh, a huge festival, which.

Yeah, huge.

Yeah.

And that was their first gig in 30 years.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, like, they.

Like, a long time ago, they'd kind of split up and he.

He went to do his TV thing and his, you know, his lobbying staff, and.

And then he started his own band and.

And the Boomtown routes carried on without him.

And at some point, they formed a reunion, and they were looking for.

They.

The way I understand it, they were looking for a horn player that could give it some.

Some welly.

Okay.

Okay.

And.

And Bob asked his drummer in his.

In his.

In his.

In his personal band to recommend someone.

And at the time, I'd been working with a rock and roll group, and it was a.

Like a.

A band that had been going for 30 years.

I'd been with them about 10 of those years, and.

And it was known for.

For really playing it, playing dirty, getting in there and sucking it through them.

And so I developed a whole Persona to playing that way.

Growling and massive, big sound and sucking it to him.

So the drummer from that band recommended me to Bob, as, you know, said, this, you know, you don't need.

Because, you know, it's funny that, like, saxy's very adaptable, but not every sax player is adaptable.

So it's funny when people ask me to get adept because I'm not entirely sure which facet of my personality, they need most and therefore who I.

Who I need to dep to.

So with this, they just wanted someone that would really lay into it and give it.

Give it some welly.

So I got.

I got the call.

I did a studio session.

The funny thing in the studio session, they.

They got all set up, sound checks and everything.

And then we.

I think we.

We.

We worked through the parts, and I just worked orally.

Bob was like, right, now I want bada.

Right, bada.

Great.

Record it.

Bada.

And then they got to the solo and they said, right, so this.

This is like.

It's in homage almost.

He didn't use that word, but it's like a tribute of our most famous song, Rat Trap.

So we just want you to do a silo, like, Rat trap.

I was like, okay, that's awesome.

I don't.

You don't know Rat Trap, though.

Okay.

Bob's like, what?

You know, Rat Trap?

You know, like our famous song.

I'm really sorry.

Could he play it for me?

What?

You don't know our most famous song?

Everyone knows our most famous song.

You don't know our most famous song?

Like, I'm really sorry, I don't know your most favorite song.

Can you hum it to me?

So they hummed it to me and then I played that, and they're like, yeah, that's it.

Perfect.

And then we finished the.

The tenor take.

And then Bob's like, okay, now I just want you to double everything on alto.

And I was like, okay.

From memory, I've only done it once.

And the producer's like, bob, that's kind of hard because alto's in a different key, all the notes are in different place.

And Bob's like, ah, it.

He can do anything there.

Aaron can do anything.

He's just come back from India.

He's played for Russia.

Jamie Winehouse played with Prince.

You can do anything.

Go for it.

So I picked a auto up and did it in one take.

But you prefer not to have to go that route, right?

You'd rather have it.

To be honest, I.

When someone's been.

Been really supportive, okay.

You know, that's a big part of it, right?

It's like, yeah, if.

If he'd have been a bit of an about it, right, then I'd probably want to go and.

And work it out.

But I think it's.

It's, you know, I'm still learning how to work in.

In the studio both, as you know, I've.

I've become quite all right at it as a musician.

But I'm still learning how to work in the studio as a producer.

Oh, that's slipping down.

Sorry.

Bear with me.

Well, he gave you a lot of compliments right there before.

Yeah, he gave me a lot of confidence right there and the compliments and it gave me confidence.

And then as a result, I just gave it my best shot.

And.

And it might.

It might be that it wasn't accurate enough, but quite often in a recording, you're looking to put vibe onto a track rather than accuracy.

Okay.

And it's.

It's always a balance, right, to be between getting accuracy and vibe.

Because, you know, if there's.

If it's all vibe and no accuracy, then it's got to be a jam album, right?

But it, you know, and if it's the other way around, then it's.

People aren't going to listen to it after one take.

You know, if it's all accuracy and no vibe, then no one's going to listen to it.

So it's all about getting the right balance, isn't it?

So I think that I dressed as a musician stepping into that environment.

I had enough accuracy in me and they gave me the vibe to just crack into it.

So, yeah, we did the session after the session, weirdly, actually, they.

Though I had a gig later during the day and they like, right, we know you got a gig.

But I was like, I've got a bit of time.

So they're like, do you want to hang?

So I made.

Made myself a cup of tea.

Just wanted to sort of hang and chill a little bit before going to the gig.

As I was making a cup of tea, Bob sort of creeps into the kitchen with his guitar.

I've got this.

I've got this little idea.

Do you wanna work on it with me while you're here?

Yeah, cool, let's do it.

And then he sets about writing this song there and then, oh, okay.

And then saying, can you play this bit?

And.

And so, you know, I was still.

I just playing his ideas.

But it's.

I thought it's really interesting because he's.

Bob's not in any way a trained musician.

He's, you know, so he's sort of.

He doesn't have any concept.

He just hears like.

You know, he hears it and he sings it, right?

You know, and then his musical director goes, oh, there's a three, four bar there.

Can we turn it into four, four?

And Bob's like, yeah, that's really interesting to see that.

And then obviously that had gone well.

And then a Couple of weeks later, they're like, we're going to do a show.

Do you want to come do the show?

And that's what.

When Isla White happened, and it is White, was for me, very surreal.

Mainly because when I was a kiddie in the 80s, watching TV, right, there was this big thing, Live Aid, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And it was huge.

Huge TV and a huge international thing.

And the guy that set it all up and run it, and the face of it was Bob Geldoff, right?

And so he was like.

In his face was imprinted on my.

In my mind, you know, And.

And here I am in front of about 30, 000 people with this face inches from mine, going, go on, Aaron.

Go on, you can do it.

Go on, Aaron.

Yeah, that's something.

I was like, I can.

But this is really, you know, I've got this icon from my youth right in my face shouting at me while I stand center stage in front of 30,000 people, all of whom know this solo better than I.

Not all, but a lot of them.

And, you know, the gig was not just play the sax, but play the original solo.

Wow.

Yeah.

Again, it's a trained piece of meat.

Right.

And you handled it well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's really fun.

Looking back, I can see myself counting bars.

I had these in, ear monitors in.

And the mix was horrific.

And I didn't.

I was completely disconnected from the world and I was just going, have I done that bit?

I hope I've done that bit.

You know, there's like the.

The.

I call it the red mist.

It's like the red mist comes down and.

And suddenly you can't see clearly and you can't hear clearly and your memory goes to.

And you just hope that all you've done enough practice and the body will take care of it, you know, like, if you go through the same walk every day, in the end you've forgotten that you've gone because your body has got on, got along with doing the walk.

Yeah, we drive the same way.

And you can't remember how you drove home because you went into just animal mode.

Right.

And I find if I do enough practice for those environments, then I get on stage, the red mist comes down, and my body plays the sacks.

Right, that.

That's interesting because, you know, about driving the car and everything.

I actually looked that up one time to see what.

What.

What causes that.

There.

There is some explanation.

And you.

You probably explained it perfectly.

I wonder if it's that.

I think that's where I think that if if you think about, you can train the pet dog by repetition, and I think you can probably train the animal part of ourselves by repetition.

And I think that's how we end up being really good at some kind of technique, whether it's playing a scale on sax or a chord on piano or really good at golf or something.

You know, there's always a luck element, but it's always combined with a trained skill.

And I think that we're not training our brain, you know, a conscious brain.

I think we're training our subconscious brain, which is the part dealing with the animal part of our body.

That's it.

That's definitely interesting.

Yeah.

Hey, we got to circle back.

I know we talked about Prince because that's.

That's a big part, you know, great connection.

We have the connection with Prince in the musical community.

How did you first become involved with Prince?

So it was, you know, my.

My story of my connection with Prince is very limited, and I don't want to oversell it.

Do you remember he came to London and did a record 21 nights?

Yeah, yeah.

Had the press conference.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And for us, that was a relatively new venue and artists had done a single night.

You know, it's 23, 000 capacity, and you do a night, you don't, you know, it's very presumptuous to do 21 nights, you know, so it's like, that's.

That's crazy.

And then I just heard on the Scene that he'd been.

His people had been contacting artists in the uk.

Does that.

Do you want to.

You know, he kind of wanted to hear what UK musicians had to say.

And, And I. I now know that he's quite an ethical, principled person.

And so his way of getting to hear British artists was to say, would you come and do a support slot for.

With me and I'll pay you.

Okay.

And, you know, so it's very ethical, I think, you know, and just.

And that same thing of wanting to experience the artists in firsthand rather than just listening to them, you know.

Right.

And get a feel for people in real life.

So at that point, I'd finished with Amy and I'd moved on to working with Beverly Knights, who just got married.

Right.

I think, a couple of years ago.

But yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, she.

She's.

She hadn't met the dude at the time.

Bev is, I think, probably, you know, one of the best singers this country's produced.

You know, definitely coming from the sort of gospel heritage and going into soul Music.

We, sadly, we don't have a, a great scene for soul music here.

You know, you, you hear a lot of soul music at parties, right?

But there's a lot of great industry for it here compared to rock and pop.

But Bev is incredible and her approach to professionalism is incredible.

She'll do a three hour show and nail everything.

You know, she'll.

She'll send the band off for a break in the middle and she'll go to do an acoustic set.

Yeah, and she's nail everything.

She's really down to earth.

She's lovely, genuine with, with her audience the whole time.

It's all, it's the real deal.

So I was working with her, which.

She just done a Motown album and she wanted the right horns to, to promote it.

So I, I joined her and had a similar experience with, with joining that they were like, you know, are you available on Tuesday?

Yeah.

Can you get horn section together?

I think so.

Right, we'll send you the music.

And we, you know, we spent four days learning to play the album.

Right.

And we, we met up at the studio and, and then she arrived and she's like, right, young man, Aaron, what.

What would you like to try first?

And we played through the whole album without any music.

And they said, great, you're hired.

Wow.

So did you playing with Prince.

I know Beverly Knight did some of the stuff there on the O2 gig.

Did you do the Indigo nightclub?

Is that where you play?

So this is what.

That's exactly what happened.

So Bev accepted the invitation to do a support show.

Okay.

So we did our support show and then Prince kindly gave us a box to hang out in so we could watch his show.

I got to meet Maceo that night, which was for me, like, much bigger than meeting Prince, you know, like an idol for me and get to meet him and, and discover that he's just a really lovely guy, you know, just the guy who's like, oh, look, help yourself to fruit.

That these, these are the good ones, you know.

And then we, after the show, the management had said, look, something might occur after.

We can't tell you what it is, and we can't tell you about it, but it would be great if you would just stay and see what would happen.

And we waited an hour and the trombone player I'd booked for the gig was like, Aaron, I've had enough of this.

I want to go home.

Can I go home?

It's like, yeah, you know, I can't keep you here.

You can go.

Trumpet player stayed.

He Went about half hour late.

Would you like to come and play in the party in the after show?

Right, yeah.

Great.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

So we go over to another venue in the same, on the same site, the Indigo, and there's like 3,000 people out the 23, 000 that came to the main show.

3,000 Bought tickets for that.

And I, I now know it was the first time.

Time that they'd made that experiment of actually making the after show party a public event.

Right.

You know, and, and I didn't, you know, but I didn't know at the time that Prince would always do his money show and then just for spirit, just for the music, have a, have a part, have a music party after some.

And usually it'd be completely private.

Private.

And he'd only tell his, the people that he trusted, his fans that he trusted.

And I think that's such a beautiful endeavor, you know, beautiful thing to do.

But on this occasion it was different.

It was public ticket, so anyone could go.

He'd been doing this every time.

And as my understanding goes, most of those nights people had just stood there listening to the album on the, on, on the intercom.

Okay.

So it was because he just didn't feel that it didn't feel it was happening or, or maybe the support band, you know, the artist that had come and done the support set, he might have asked them if they don't do the after show, when did the after show.

He wasn't digging it.

So that's it.

Yeah.

Disappointment for the fans, but yeah, for real.

So he, he'd never made an appearance on the after show.

So we went and played and we just played the set.

So it's a little bit, I mean, it's all right, but it was a little bit weird because these people have just seen us play this set and we're playing the same set, you know, didn't do any other songs.

We just played the set where it's felt a little bit odd and the sound was brilliant.

His, his crew were amazing.

Really looked after us and then we finished the set and it was even more embarrassing because they, we just stopped.

They, we're asked to stay on stage.

They didn't put any music on.

And there's a bit of discussion going on on the other side off the wings and.

But we as a band were just looking at sort of 3, 000 people going, yeah, you know, what's gonna happen?

What are we doing?

Yeah, yeah, what are we doing?

And the MD says, right we're going to do that.

That one.

The one, you know, the one.

The silo in from earlier in the set.

And I'm like, okay, so we're gonna do a song for the third time to the same audience without jamming it, without opening it up just the same way.

Right?

Was like, this is embarrassing now.

Okay.

So we play the song.

It gets to the guitar solo.

It's not our guitarist playing the solo.

Aha.

Yeah.

And the place erupted, you know, like just.

It literally felt like 3,000 people levitating.

That's something.

Yeah, yeah.

And he came on, he played a solo.

He went off.

He sent Mao on jam with us for a bit.

Mao came on, went off.

Some of the other horns came on, went off.

Eventually all.

All of his four horns came on with a few of his band.

They had this little trick they played where they.

We.

In horn sections.

We have this thing called a solly.

You know what?

That is not the word solly.

So solly means pre prepared feature.

Okay.

Where it sounds like a solo, but everyone's playing together.

Okay.

So like a.

Like a party piece really.

Right, Right.

And so.

So the.

And it was about 16 bars long, so.

So Macey, Owen, the guys started playing this.

Solly and me and my trumpet players trying to catch up with it.

And we're just like, that's really hard.

Right?

And then they go for it again.

We're trying, we still can't get it.

And then suddenly there's a technician at our side and he says, hey, guys, have a beer.

Here's a couch just for you.

Enjoy the show.

We're like, ah, okay.

So.

So.

And all the band had the same experience at the same time.

It's like, you know, we're gonna take it from here, guys.

Right?

Right.

Sit down on the stage.

Enjoy a beer on us.

Your gig's done.

And.

And you sit down and you watch Prince dude.

Just have a party for.

For an hour.

And I'm not sure if that was the night they recorded.

And he included in a release with a book from the Indigo.

I don't know if it was that.

Night or now that's a strange one.

So I. I know that they did like, you know, we basically, we.

We.

I think he wanted us to come back and do the rest of the shows.

Okay.

Which was an amazing compliment.

And we were busting for it for some reason that I don't really think is the real reason we didn't do that.

We just did one show.

Okay.

But we did go back in and the second Time we did was more like a jam session.

And it was amazing with, you know, both bad.

Both his band and ours.

23 People just play together for an hour.

That's amazing.

And he.

On that time, he'd sent a message saying, do you want to come and play the after party?

And if you do, please bring the whole horn section.

But, you know, and I. I'm aware that some stuff was recorded, but I mean, even on the day peep, someone texted me and said, I recorded.

I bootlegged your gig.

You know, I've got it.

And then it turned out that that had been deleted.

And I know that Prince had employed a team of hackers that would spend every day deleting bootlegs.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

He was extremely tough on that.

Yeah, yeah, Good for him.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I. I got that book one time hoping that it would have the discs.

It didn't have the disc to sell it back.

So if anyone's got a recording of that night, I'd love to hear it.

I got.

I've got to look up because it was an official release, but it was of his band.

But I'll figure out the.

The.

I'll relay it to you about what date it was because I know Shelby Johnson.

She was singing on the gig.

That's right.

That rings a bell.

Actually, someone.

I did just.

This rings a bell now.

Someone recently surreptitiously passed me something and I have been listening to it.

And there is a bit of that.

There is a bit.

She sang the song Misty Blue.

That was.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah.

So there is an official recording.

I just don't know the date.

So.

Yeah, yeah, I think.

Yeah, I think all of that stuff was recorded.

Right?

Oh, well, I mean, that's the.

We were amazed that the crew that he had for the after party was.

Was so much better than our entire crew for our touring thing, you know, like.

Yeah, yeah.

You know.

Yeah, he definitely was a.

It was a first.

First class operation.

Yeah, yeah.

Hey, I got.

I got a quick Maceo Parker story for you.

Awesome.

My.

My wife used to do radio promotion.

She had her own company and she worked for Maceo's son, Corey Parker.

So right before the show starts, I'm in.

I walk up, I think I went to the men's room and came out, and right in the hallway is Macy O. Parker with his manager, Natasha.

He's all dapp in the suit with his horn, just amongst people.

And the stage is like, he's on the third level.

So we started talking.

I was telling my wife, work for your son.

And we know he was cool and everything.

And Natasha, it's always nice.

But the lights dim all of a sudden.

Maceo, from the top level of the hockey arena, 20,000 seat, has to walk down the stairs, all the way down to the stage, playing his saxophone.

Just the saxophone, and not fall and break his neck.

Yeah.

I never seen that.

Yeah, it was.

It was challenging, but he.

He did it.

Yeah.

Yes.

So I remember him being backstage and at the time, Prince was going through that stage where he got back into religion.

Yeah.

So there's no drink backstage.

And it's all subdued purple lighting.

So someone had the job of covering all of the lights with a purple gel.

Right.

It was all kind of very subdued.

And I remember hearing this outside player playing furious, furious bebop.

And.

And they, you know, like, going.

I could hear it going up and down the corridors.

And at one point, like, this is.

A face appears.

Do you know when dinner's ready?

I think it's in the half hour.

Okay.

And it's.

It is Mao warming up.

Right, right.

Whilst.

Whilst running around the corridors playing the most furious bebop.

And at that point I went, right.

Yeah, he.

He gets what his stage thing is, but that's not all there is.

Yeah, we've seen him a couple times.

Maybe his own band.

Greg Boyer was in the band.

And Ski.

Curse.

Bruno Spade.

Yeah.

Just, you know, great, great musicians.

And.

And James Brown.

You know, I met James Brown and Wilson Pickett back in 82, 83.

They're on tour.

Ma was in the band.

But here I am, probably 18 years old.

I don't realize, you know, I'm amongst these legends, Right.

Could have taken backstage with James Brown.

I could have taken advantage of, you know, finding out more.

But, you know.

Yeah.

Probably met Maceo.

Yeah.

And I think sometimes when you're young and innocent like that.

Yeah.

You get given these opportunities because you're not going to make a fuss about it because you don't know that's true.

Yeah.

Sometimes that naivety means you're a safe person to have around.

Right.

Yeah.

I saw James Brown and hair curlers.

Right.

Beautiful thing.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

So.

Hey, hey, listen, listen, Aaron, I gotta thank you so much for finally.

We're meeting.

We talked and you were in New York, and unfortunately we didn't meet.

And you're just a great guy and great musician.

Nylon Man.

We're going to be playing it here on, on our program.

Beautiful.

Thanks for playing it.

Yeah.

And for those watching it, we'll have the links, Aaron's links, Aaron ladard.com and band camp.

You can first of all, get his music support.

Support an independent artist and if he's touring around in your neck of the woods, go see him and his great band.

We'll also have this interview, the audio with your music on our mixcloud station and all the podcasts, the audio, be there, Spotify, you name it.

So you'll be out there.

Wonderful.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

It's been a joy.

Yeah, it's great.

Hey, hey.

Quick one question and this is off the wall.

We're big fans, me and my wife of Britbox and the British shows.

You have a recommendation, anything on the telly out there that you've been getting into or too busy?

Yeah, I don't watch a lot of tv and I prefer Gordon Ramsay when he's in America telling Americans to clean their fridge.

Yeah.

Well, we'll leave it at that.

Yeah.

So thanks, Aaron, so much.

Brilliant.

Thank.

Thank you, John.