In this episode, HVAC expert John Ellis shares how clear pricing, customer education, and IAQ solutions can help you close bigger jobs and gain homeowner trust. If you want sales to feel easier—for your team and your customers—this one’s packed with practical strategies.

👉 Full show notes: https://reflectivemarketing.com/podcast/john-ellis/

All right, John, welcome to Beyond the Tools. I'm so excited to have you here. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. So you've got a really interesting background, John. I think your evolution through the industry is pretty interesting. What do you see as the common thread in all the work that you do, or how did you get here? I would say the common thread or the one common denominator is education and training.

And I've been on that learning path early on in my career. And I think that's instrumental. love that. So you started with running an HVAC company, right? Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Well, yeah, actually just prior to that, I started in the HVAC industry at a supply house, stocking shelves, doing UPS,

and sweeping the floors. That's about as, you know, entry level as you can get. And so, but that gave me a little opportunity to get familiar with different parts and equipment and then working alongside the counter guys. They'd say, Hey, you know, we need this part and that was this, this part. And I'd have to go find it. And then being an inquisitor, it's like, well, what the heck does this part do? And so that, you know, or early on, you know, there was an interest in how

all that this works. And then a contractor saw some potential in me, cause I was always on time. I was always at work. He's like, you know what? We're hiring for the summer. You want to come along? And I did. And that's, that started, started me in the trade.

But yeah, that's about as entry level as you get at a supply house. Yeah, I love that. really starting at the bottom and getting to learn the industry from the warehouse up. Yeah. That's cool. So how do you feel that running your own HVAC company, how did that prepare you to serve the industry with education and training and that side of things now? Yeah, well, let's spell out a little

little bit of my journey on how I got to where I actually owned an HVAC business. So working with several different companies, learning, you everybody does something a little different. Unfortunately, in that you learn some bad habits or bad rules of thumb from different contractors, which is okay. I mean, it's all part of that journey. But as I worked up, I had the opportunity to be in the sheet metal workers union.

the pipe fitters union and the engineers and operators union and so that really started to you know spell out the trades really in depth when you start learning And good better and different, know how the union does it and they have your training because they they they spell out a career path I was an operator engineer at UCLA

for several years and they are a cogen with a steam plant. They chill their own water and they make their own electricity. that was intriguing to me. And then coming up through the trades, I started doing really big projects like schools, prisons, hospitals, water treatment plants. And so those were all like, you know, really big industrial kind of jobs. And then back in the building boom in the 80s, I got with a company that was doing production homes.

and we would do 300 homes at a time, track homes in California. And you would start with the model homes and then you'd start at the first house and you go up the block, down the block, around the corner. And by the time you get around the corner, people are moving into the first house. So I learned to move and be really efficient and just go fast, because they want you to go fast. But I look back at that and I'm like,

my goodness, if I would have known then what I know now, not that I would have had a say in the matter, that is all inventory because track homes are not built the best and they don't pay a whole lot of attention to HVAC. It's more like, you know, the nice finishes and, you know, fixtures and granite countertops and that kind of stuff. But it was all part of that, that learning and, and then, you know, working through the trades, I finally started my own business.

And, what was interesting about that. It was called SoCal Air Dynamics for Southern California. And it didn't say heating and air conditioning. It said performance contracting. So I was an early adapter to performance contracting using building science, home performance, doing manual JD S and T, you know, really digging into, doing proper duck work. And then from there, I became a hers raider.

and I do a third party verification, an air balance technician, system performance, economizer. I was doing a QII, which is quality installation. So I'd go behind the installation contractors and inspect their work. then, you know, I just kept, that's where the education and I just kept going and going and going and going through the NAIT and you know, of course all the air balance certifications. I'm a level one thermographer.

using thermal imaging and I just like kept going and going and going. And then, you know, a building analyst, know, a core building science and just kept building and building and building. And that of course helped my career. And then I took that dive into indoor air quality, had some wonderful mentors that just took me under their wing, really helped me cut my teeth on what real indoor air quality, real building science, building performance.

building forensics, all that, and that was all just part of that journey. And then about eight years ago, I sold my business and moved out of California and really got more into consulting and teaching. And I just, I'm a little older now, kind of in a legacy mode, and I just love teaching the next generation. That's amazing. And how long was it that you ran that HVAC company before you sold it eight years ago?

11 years. Yeah. Yeah. 11 years. Fantastic. And was it for you, was it right away that you knew you wanted to move more into training and education and consulting, or was that something that took a little bit of time to figure out what your next thing was? Well, I had, as I mentioned, some wonderful mentors. And one of my mentors, name is Scott Johnson, and he was a trainer.

And I took, I was just like every class that ever came up, I was in it and he was teaching it. And he was one of the guys that took me under his wing, but having a mentor like that to look up to and watching him teach. And I'm like, man, it must be cool

And then, I got involved with a company called national comfort Institute. I started taking their training and then there was a couple of gentlemen that kind of mentored me there. And I was like, man, this would be great just to be able to do that.

I got the bug, if you will. then once I sold my business and got out of California, it's like some opportunities came up and that were giving me some national platforms. love that. Well, that's a great story. So fast forwarding a little to today, what are some of the things that you carry from running your own HVAC company and the mentorship and doing all this?

public speaking, how does that impact how you serve the industry now? Let's spell that out a little bit. So I have the awesome privilege of teaching indoor air quality for Dyken and Amanda Goodman. And about six years ago, they approached me and said, hey, we really want to create an indoor air quality curriculum for the industry and then run it through, it's called the HVAC Learning Campus. so they,

They gave me free reign. said, Hey, I'm absolutely your guy, but I really don't want to stand in front of our audience and try to sell products because that's what everybody else does. I really want to get into the teeth of building science indoor air quality from a mechanical point of view, the science behind it and how to solve problems and create solutions. And they're like, John, that's wonderful. So it was a year in the making that we took to write the curriculum and the workbook. It's been a wonderful platform. And so because of that,

platform and teaching IAQ, I've gained some notoriety in the industry as that guy. And then last year or no, this year I was awarded top 25 most influential HVAC trainers because of that platform. so, it's all a culmination of everything in my career and my journey getting to where I am now.

And then, know, running a business, there's always going to be that sales component. And so, I had the opportunity to get with a company called the new flat rate and take that really deep dive into sales and look at it from many different angles because sales is not new. mean, we could go back and trace it to the fuller brush guy that used to go knocking on doors or the door to door vacuum salesperson. then the evolution of sales.

And so there's a lot of history. There's a lot of people out there that touch that do sales. But what did a lot of me do with the new flat rate is kind of look at all of it. And what they've done is kind of pull the best of from each approach and put together kind of a process, if you will. And so I've been blessed to be able to go out and speak on that and speak about sales and speak about how to have a profitable maintenance agreement, how to sell indoor air quality.

how to have a process for sales. So that's been wonderful. I own my own consulting business and so I don't want to be a contractor anymore. I like to say I'm a recovering contractor. The 13 steps takes a while. So what I do now is I use the consulting to help create clean, healthy environments for people who are severely compromised, both respiratory, immunal, like oncology.

Lung transplanted, you know, it's pretty severe stuff.

It's all building blocks from life experiences and failures and successes and starting over and going back to the drawing board and what works, what doesn't work. So it's all part of the journey. Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like you've really come full circle. So I think that that gives some really helpful context going into some of the things that we're going to talk about here in terms of

pricing and sales and how to add indoor air quality to your service offerings and all that sort of stuff. So for me, you know, one thing I'm super excited to chat about is flat rate pricing, because as a marketer, I can tell you with all the HVAC clients that we work with, one of the common challenges or gaps that I see with a lot of clients when it comes to their sales process is that they're not selling on the spot. So

What exactly is flat rate pricing? How does it work? And how have you seen that to improve the sales for these HVAC companies? Yeah, that's a great question. So we'll dive into it a little bit. One of the major hurdles I see from a lot of young contractors, know, just starting out, you know, building a business, they come from, most of the time come at like a

service technician and they jump in, they wanna have a business and it's how do you establish pricing? so one of the things is know your numbers. I talk to contractors all the time because what I get to do with the new flat rate is I do some business coaching and field service training, but kind of get in their books.

help look at where they're at. And I asked the question, hey, do you know how much it costs to put a truck in the driveway for the first 45 minutes? And most contractors say, well, no, I don't. And then it's like, well, then how do know how much to charge for your services? And it's going to be different for everybody because of where your P &Ls are or where your profit margins need to be, what your overhead is for the smaller guy with one truck, maybe two.

and maybe working from home or a small shop, their overhead's gonna be a lot different than a guy with 20 trucks and a huge warehouse and their stocking materials and all the stuff that comes with running a larger company. So it's gonna be completely different. Geographics are different as well to a point. mean, and so for instance, what somebody's charging in,

know, Del Rio, Texas is going to be different than what they're charging in New York City. So it's important to know your numbers, know where your profit margins need to be. then so when we look at traditional flat rate pricing,

Just flat rate. It's based on a good, better best. And if, and before we had, CRNs and wonderful software to help us do things, you'd literally have to either have a price book or the technician would go into the van and they'd write down some options. They call the supply house to get quotes on said materials or equipment or whatever was needed. And they'd sit down and they'd write it all out and they try to do three options.

and just hope to goodness that the pricing is right. you know, especially where most contractors lose it, and I'm guilty of this too when I ran my business, is your billable hour. Well, how many hours is this gonna take? And if you don't do a thorough job on the front end of looking at what it's gonna take, you could lose it real easy. and now even with CRMs, the technician still has to go and pull the three things out of a CRM.

give the three options and make sure that the pricing looks right and then go present it. So psychology tells us that for most people, when given a good, better, best scenario, they look at the bottom option and say, I deserve or I want better than the bottom. And they look at the top and say, well, you know what? Financially, this doesn't make sense for me. And so they find themselves right in the middle.

So if you think about it and they're funneled to the middle, having one choice is not a choice. They're pigeonholed to the middle and then so they find themselves there and that's okay. And Good Better Best has worked forever. And so that's traditional flat rate pricing. then you can put it into a book or put it on a tablet and then you're constantly having to make sure with material increases and different things,

that you're staying on top of that. But still there's quite a bit of time invested in building those three options, whether you're doing it on paper or pulling it out of a CRM. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. So the difference between flat rate pricing and menu pricing is with the new flat rate, every service or repair has five options.

they are written in a menu form. And what we've done is we have kind of flipped it over and not looked at it from a sales perspective. know, sell, sell, sell. It's like, let's look at it from the consumer side and what it's like to make a purchase. And we've taken that philosophy

Our industry, and I'm talking about all home services industry, has been a take it or leave it proposition forever. Mr. Mrs. Homeowner had a look at the problem. It's gonna be $500. This is what it costs. It's the hottest day of the year, take it or leave it. So that pushes the customer into a corner and they don't have a choice and that's not a very good feeling.

Heating and cooling is a lot more complicated. Homeowners don't know what they're looking at. Are we confusing them by giving them too many options? What would you say to that? There is a select few that get overwhelmed. That's where communication comes in. We are full process. So I like to say we're not a pricing company. We are a software and process development company.

It's all about communication. And so if you look into linguistic psychology, that plays a big part in sales. How words are spoken, how they're received, your cadence, how fast you speak, how loud, speaking with confidence but not cocky, and listening. The biggest part of communication is listening. Shut up and listen.

So we use what's called verbal packaging. And what we do is we, we talk about the system it's working in and what the part does. so, and a lot of contractors think that this is being, you know, an underhanded or sneaky. It's not, it's just a

There's two things. It's one, explain it the way that someone would understand. And so if I'm talking about a magnetic contactor, it's a voltage distribution system. And so what does it do? It's in the voltage system. And what does it do? Distributes electricity. I could call it a mag contactor and nobody knows what it is. But if I say it's a voltage distribution, that gives a little more kind of explanation on what it does. we, and it's not to be sneaky or underhanded to anybody.

People push because you get the spectrum of clients. Hey, well tell them, it's a mad contactor. But what that does is keep them off of Google or eBay or YouTube University and keeps the sale in your corner. So as we work with the contractors numbers, what does it cost to put a truck in the driveway? What's your minimum ticket need to be for you to be profitable? Where's your

profit margins need to be, we build it all into the software and we start with the basic repair.

And also part of the sales process is you have to build value. Now value is a tricky word.

We know the value of what we do because we know what it takes to run our business and purchase and employees and all that. But there's perceived value in the eyes of the consumer. So we have to bring up perceived value. And as you do that, you build confidence with them and sales resistance will go down. And it's all about communication. And so again, if you want to sling cheeseburgers all the time, that's absolutely fine.

But if you have a menu that starts off with your cheeseburger, and if that's all they choose, that's fine, because that's what you've been selling them for anyway. But as you go up, we do the cheeseburger and more, and then we get to the lobster, and then we get to the filet mignon, right? And then it would be more, more, more. And there's something in sales too. So there's the cost to get in the driveway for the first hour. On average, it's about 250 bucks, right? Just to get that drug in the driveway and 45 minutes.

so all of your expenses are built into that first hour and that service call.

Each time you go up and add those services, all of your overhead is in that first service. The rest of them go straight to profit minus your materials. Right.

And what's cool is you're putting them in control. There's a script and you have to get through the call, but you hand a menu to them, you explain what it is, and then you say, what should we do? And you be quiet, right? And let them look at it, figure it out.

If they ask a question, you answer it, but now they are in full control of what they want to do. And you know what? Thank goodness we have a cheeseburger because sometimes that's all people can afford. thank goodness it's there. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And you're absolutely right. If there's never an option to go for more than, yeah, you're, not going to sell more. So I can definitely see how that

really helps. guess what are you typically seeing in terms of the impact on companies that you work with that go from, you know, this good, better, best, or maybe they take it or leave it, and then they move to more of this menu pricing. On average, we're showing an increase of 250 to $350 per surface ticket. That's averaged out. We're seeing

we're seeing a $10,000 increase per service truck per week. Y'all are running full volume. And then another thing that we teach is we go into fluid dispatching a little bit and that's, and depending on which CRM, know a lot of technicians can see their whole schedule and instead of focusing on the call, they're looking at where they gotta go. It's my goodness, I gotta rush through these.

So we recommend fluid dispatching. The technician gets one call at a time and that's their focus. And then also if you have several technicians, it's put the man on the money. So if you have one guy who's really good at boilers and you get a boiler call, well, put him there. Or you got another guy who's really good with heat pumps or mini splits and you get that call, put that guy there. Right. So put the man on the money.

And so, and what that does is allow them just to really focus on that call. And then guess what? I just sold a platinum. Well, great. That is great because that platinum call just covered like two more calls that may be, you know, the bird in the hands were two in the bush. That platinum call, pull up a chair, do your best work and give that customer the value that they bought from you. And then we have,

In the app, we have a tech handbook. So it's written customer facing with the verbal packaging, and then the technician can hit a button and it'll go over and explain to him in technician terms exactly what he needs to do to fulfill that obligation. And then that allows us to really get the most out of each call. Yeah, that's fantastic. Okay, and I know there's so much more we could dive into here, but I really want to talk about

indoor air quality, especially as I told you already. Bit of a new world for me. I don't know a ton about it, but obviously there's been a huge rise in popularity with IAQ since the pandemic and then, you know, people being more conscious of their health and all that sort of thing. I guess, why do you think that home service companies can really benefit from adding those types of

solutions to their offerings. Well, company called Technavio did a PR release and they forecasted that the IAQ solutions market will increase by $10.25 billion in the upcoming years. That's with a B. Now, I just quoted that release. If you notice what it

said it didn't say that the IAQ products market is said solutions. So I want to hone in on that. You know, the pandemic, thank goodness it's in our rear view mirror and I hope it stays there. But people were on lockdown and people were at home and not going into the office spending more time indoors. then, and I know we were like that. We were at home and it's like, well, you know, what do we do now?

And so, uh, my wife and I, it's like, let's build a loft in her office. And so we build a loft and painted and people are like, wow, that wall, it's really dingy. Let's paint. Uh, they sold more paint during the lockdown of the pandemic than anything. But also people were at home and saying, you know what? I'm feeling a little off. I go for a walk. I feel better. come home and I'm sneezing or my eyes are watering. I'm waking up and I'm all gunky or Hey, I got a little tickle in my throat or I'm not breathing.

as I think I should and then I go out and I feel better. And so that kind of started to bring IAQ to the forefront in residential. And then in the commercial realm of things, more more people as they were working from home, they wanted to start bringing people back. There was this big, half of it was panic driven about, is our workspace safe? What do we need to do? So that kind of sparked.

a new interest in indoor air quality. Now I've been doing indoor air quality at a very high level for the last 17 years. And so this was right in my wheelhouse. With that new found interest in indoor air quality, and we'll concentrate more on residential, with that came all the marketing of all the gadgets and the things.

And promises that were being touted that weren't realistic. that's marketing. Marketing is a tricky beast in and of itself to even navigate. And some of the claims that they were making were partial truths. And then some of the science behind didn't add up. But anyway, HVAC contractors being tricked by marketing started selling these things hand over fist. And really,

efficacy comes into play. Yeah. Where are they really solving any problems? Yeah. And so I teach that we, don't want to be that guy who has a, the latest gadget on the truck, just looking for a problem. Right. Or, just selling it with scare tactics. Right. Right. And just to drive up that ticket and believe me, people were making a lot of money selling these things. And then they weren't even installing them property. They were making claims that they couldn't.

They were selling a bill of goods that they couldn't make good on. So that's enough on that. I just wanted to bring that out there. So what we need to do to, to, to really hone in on in good indoor air quality. First, we need education. And that's where I come in. I teach a two day class for document a Goodman and it's in depth. It's the nuts and bolts and science behind indoor air quality from a mechanical point of view for our industry.

There's an old saying, if you don't test, it's just a guess. so our industry for the longest time now since the pandemic, as soon as they say indoor air quality, it's like, well, hey, I got this on the truck. This should do it. Right. And so that's just the wrong approach. And so I teach a three-step process because we're a process driven industry and it's IAQ, investigate, analyze,

You have to do all three. They have to be done in order. The investigation or discovery allows you to go in and take a certain set of measurements. I divide that up into three categories. There's building safety, right? What's the building doing? Air safety, what pollutants are in the air? We need to identify them so we know where they're coming from. And then the mechanical safety. know, mechanical, HVAC has the biggest impact on our structure.

our solution has to be based on data and it has to be able to...

be focused on what the client's experiencing. And then once we have that data and we can analyze it, we can put together a scope of work and then we can quote it. And then most approaches are going to be multi-tiered because you're looking at several different problems that need to be addressed.

I see a lot of sales guys out there that are pushing gadgets. Oh, I did a million dollars in sales last year selling in certain name here. I'm like, oh, well, that's awesome. I sold one job for $1.4 million.

Right. But that's a whole different level because some of it was government, some of it was schools, but in that process, you're not just pitching to a salesperson. You have to do an RFP, you have to do your homework, and then I had to stand in front of a panel and tell them why my bid was better than everybody else's bid. that's a different level, and it takes confidence, but it also takes a lot of knowledge and a lot of research.

And so I did that one job. beat United Technologies for that contract. we all know who United Technologies is. That would be Carrier. Yeah, that's amazing. And what are you typically seeing like when it's residential? $70,000 was my residential ticket.

So this is the real deal. We're not going to install a gadget and hope for the best.

And when I talk about my clients, their very life or their quality of life depends on the decisions I'm going to help them make. So there's a certain amount of weight that comes with that and responsibility. And then of course, being confident in your, in your knowledge base too comes with that. So we, did all the testing, we brought all the information, we went over it and then we sat down with the client and they allowed me, they wanted to see how I presented it and how I spoke about it.

Uh, so we presented the client liked it and I say, look, I can't give you the numbers on this. Cause this is not my marketplace in Houston. Uh, but, um, uh, Ron here, Ronald here is going to give you a quote on what we just went over. Great. We're looking forward to it. So, uh, they put together their package, presented it to that client. was $60,000. They sold the job. They called me the week later and said, John, can't believe it. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. I've been training contractors all over United States and Canada.

and a lot of them were having great success.

Yeah. And so having that knowledge, expertise, experience and the tools necessary to diagnose and come up with a real solution for somebody who needs it. Most contractors are scared on how to charge for that. When we have that built into the menu, here's what we're gonna do, here's the things we're gonna test, here's.

Here's, we're going to test the building, the air and the mechanical. Here's what it is. And then the customer can choose. And that tells you how serious they are because more times than not, when you get a client like that, they've already been through the long line of contractors who want to come and install smoke and mirrors for them. So they're done with that. so, yeah. So this really is much more consultative and

holistic in terms of the solution that you're offering then, you know, just slapping a HEPA filter on something and calling it a day. Well, let's be careful. HEPA filters are great. Yeah, yeah. It's those other things. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, to be fair, again, is someone who knows very little about IQ. I'm like, HEPA filter is all in Not just about a filter. It's all encompassing. Yeah. And since you mentioned filtration, if

If you put in a good filtration system and the infiltration is way out of control, it's a wash because it can't keep up. And or you put a good filtration system on a leaky system, it's a wash. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't want to go too deep into the woods. Yeah, no. But it gives you an idea. So cause and effect, everything that you do can impact something else either in a positive or negative way.

Okay, so I think hearing all that, mean, obviously there's huge opportunity here from a business perspective. It's also something that can really help homeowners to live better lives, live more comfortably, certainly impact their health. It sounds like given the approach that you typically take, and you kind of hinted at that, that it does sound intimidating and like there's a big investment there on the tools and testing side of things to get

started, I guess, what would be a realistic expectation for a business owner who's looking at this and saying, you know what, I really want to get started in IAQ, but where do I begin with this? Yeah, absolutely. And I do teach how to implement an IAQ division or department in your existing business. so it's all got to start with education.

I, I'm very proud of the class that I teach. It's been well received and, it's, it's the real deal.

And you can't go out and just buy all the tools at once. Well, you could, it's a big paycheck, it's a big check and you could, but then you gotta know how to use those tools because there's a lot of...

With technology now, there's a lot of talk about data integrity. Because if you don't use the equipment right and gather the data properly, the integrity of the data could be compromised. And then you're making wrong decisions based on wrong data. So it just never ends. I work with a company called Air Advice, and it's a great entry-level tool. And so then the thing would be,

How and when do you have that conversation? You don't walk in on the hottest day of the year and somebody's equipment is down and they're sitting there sweltering and they're worried about how much it's gonna cost and you start talking about indoor air quality. It's like, no, that comes off very bullish and salesy. You're there for a reason, address that reason first and then once your system and they're like, oh, okay, and then they're calmed down a little bit, you could bring it into the conversation.

But it's so the when and where and how are very.

You just got to know when. And there are some companies that run the air advice on every single service call and then bring it up after. And then they have some success in that. I'm more about asking permission first. That way you don't kind of spoil the call. well, he did a great job. got my air conditioning running, but he was kept pushing on that. That's my school thought. I'd rather ask permission. so that's if let's use maintenance.

maintenance is one of the low key, most casual calls we could ever do. It's scheduled. It's not the worst day of the year, either too hot or too cold and the system's broken down and everybody's in a pain. Very casual. so following a process, maintenance calls, if run properly, and I have a whole deal on how to have a profitable maintenance, but if it's run properly, each step of your maintenance call,

should set the table for the next step in that maintenance call, starting with the greeting. And then starting with some fact finding questions. How's everything been running? Is there any strange noises, smells? Is one room too hot to hold? Is it dusty? Some questions. And then that magic question, how's everything been running? Well, everything's been running great. Just go ahead. I'm glad to hear that. You know what? If I were to find something that is a concern to me that could cause a problem,

in the upcoming heating or cooling? What was I going to do about it? What did I just do? I made them think it's going to require an answer and I'm asking permission. So I set the table for the next step. So when I do my maintenance and I find something, I've already asked permission to bring it back to them. And then I actually feel excited. I got one more question for you. Is there anybody in the home that has any allergies, asthma or respiratory concerns that you would like me to know about?

Let the yeses be yes and the noes be no. I had a Joe and say, yeah, my wife's got really bad asthma. It's like, okay, you know what? We're running a special right now. While I'm doing my maintenance, I can go ahead and run my air advice and in 30 minutes I can have a snapshot of what's going on in your house. It's free, would you like to do that? And the guy's like, no, no, no, no, no. It's like, wait a minute, you just said your wife had really bad asthma. But so that don't happen. But that's a way to bring it into the conversation.

It's just a matter of fact. It's like, hey, it's free. You're interested in? Then you do your maintenance. You identify any value added opportunities. I hate upsell. That is a curse word. Yeah. Value added opportunities. Value for who? Well, both you and the customer. Hey, I found a problem. I'm a little concerned. This is running outside of manufacturer specifications. It could cause a breakdown.

In the summer, I got several options. You'd like to go over those now? Hey, yes or no. But when you're all done, it's like, hey, you know what? Thank you for using DynamoNICare. I know you have a lot of choices for service companies. We really appreciate your business. Everything's running pretty darn good today. I did get that report back. Would you like to go over that now? Sure. Based on national averages, the EPA, National Lung Association and National Heart Association,

They have recommended levels of certain pollutants. Based on my report, you've got some levels that are a little high. And this is what it's showing. We do have some options to take care of that now. However, this was only a 30 minute snapshot. We could leave this device here for three or four days and get a bigger picture. And it's only $139. Is that something you're interested in? Yes or no. Right? If they say yes, guess what? They're invested. They've got skin in the game.

And if they say no, hey, you know what? I do have some options. I got high particulates. The National Lung Association says this is too high. I have some options for better filtration. We can short right on the spot, SOS, right? Selling on the spot. And so how you have that conversation with empathy, with compassion, not being bullish or salesy, just a matter of fact, let their yeses be yes and their nos be no.

That is so practical and helpful. So thank you for running through that role play and how a conversation about IAQ can go in a way that makes the homeowner feel comfortable, but you're presenting those options. I love that. So John, I know that we have so much we could dig into more, but I do want to give you the opportunity to tell us a little bit about your new product.

and how our audience can connect with you further. So yeah, tell us, what do you got going on?

so the last two years I had the wonderful opportunity to work with the engineers and the owner of Dust Free. Now Dust Free is a indoor air quality manufacturer and they make a whole host of products. They got a pretty robust catalog. And so I approached them two years ago and said, there is a little gap in the market within the filtration scheme of things.

And I said, if we could step in and fill this void, I think we can take this to market. And so I want to preface this with saying that we didn't invent the mousetrap. We just built the best one, right? You can look back on the very first patent for a mousetrap and there's a bazillion of them since, right? So we built the best mousetrap. It is a Merv.

16 residential filtration system surgical grade. And so we have our official ASHRAE 52.2 MIRV 16 credentials. This is we have to get their blessing and they put that MIRV rating on it to go to market.

Again, being that we built the best mousetrap, we had to take some other mousetraps with us and we went head to head. And we built all the, beat all the competition head to head in every category.

But we had to be conservative with published data. We're getting 98 % filtration. We're doing work in the PM2.5, which is the real small particles. We're doing a lot of work in that. We use all five filtration methods in our filter media. And with a really high electrostatic attraction, not only front loading,

but as we permeate through the filter. Our filter life is three years. You don't have to change the filter. And we'll take a little bit of a hit on the loading curve for airflow, but we never ever filter any less than the 98 % for the full life. And those clients that really, really need that kind, let's say compromise, and I've done plenty where,

You could walk around the house with a white glove and there's nothing anywhere because they're in that kind of environment. We'll even get four years out of a filter life. And so we went to market right now. We're working on two point distribution and that will be getting them on the shelves in your local supply house. The beautiful thing is it comes knocked down. And so it's two little suitcases because it's a, it's a pretty big filter cabinet. And so they're knocked down assembles in about 10 minutes.

So it's been wonderful. It's been an experience. I've never been on the manufacturing side. What it takes to go from concept to market is amazing.

Several trips to the lab, running it through the gauntlet of testing until we got the desired results we wanted. And so last week I went back into the lab with the engineers and the owner.

I've got a bunch of material on YouTube and different podcasts and different things there. my email address is dynamic air consulting @ aol.com Send me an email. I'm gonna go one step further. If you're on a job or you're working with a client and you need advice and you need it quick, my phone number is 505

thank you for giving us a taste of all your incredible knowledge when it comes to menu pricing and IAQ and the industry as a whole. And yeah, I really appreciate you being on the show. If you're interested in my training, the HVACLearningCampus.com You can go on there and find my training. I'm already booking

2025 and so you'll be able to go in there and see if there's a training near you or if you would like to request a training in your area, I'd be more than happy to help you do that. If you are interested in the new flat rate and what they have to offer, we'd love to hear from you. There is absolutely no pressure and that would be the new flat rate.com. If you talk to somebody, do me a favor, tell them that I sent you because I do get a little commission off of, you know,

some of the sales there. But I'd rather see you be successful. Krystal, thank you. It's amazing. Thanks so much, John.