Katie works at Ecamm and has done many interviews over the years. Katie joins me today to give some interview tips that you can use to make your show better.

Welcome to Podcast Answers, the show where I help people start and grow their podcast,

answering any podcasting questions along the way.

And today we have a special episode.

We are going to be chatting with Katie Fawkes from Ecamm about interviewing and interview

questions and how do you get interviewers to talk.

Every show here, I was chatting with her and it was a great conversation.

So I wanted to bring her on and talk a little bit today about how you can do this.

And her and Doc Rock were talking about this on a recent episode of The Flow.

And so it got me thinking, you know, a lot of my listeners would love to hear this same

conversation with Katie.

So Katie, welcome to the show.

Can you just talk a little bit about who you are?

Nope, absolutely not.

Just kidding.

Well, I'm so delighted to be here.

If you haven't met me yet, I am Katie.

As Andy was saying, I work over at Ecamm, which is a live streaming and video production software

that Andy is using and many people use to bring their podcasts, their shows, their videos

to life and be able to do really cool things.

I have a really weird background.

I actually started in copywriting, so I was the person that like absolutely never, ever,

ever wanted to be on camera.

And now I love it.

I feel like I'm probably doing these kinds of interviews or video recordings or live

streams, certainly multiple times a week, many times multiple times a day.

So I do think I'm a big believer in the fact that practicing and pushing yourself out of

your comfort zone and just being yourself really goes a long way in building your confidence

and getting you towards your goals.

And for me, it was like scared to be on camera to confident on camera.

That's my short blurb on me today.

Yeah.

And I know you've interviewed me for a couple of different shows before.

And so, yeah, I was really impressed with how I knew your story.

I knew that you came from this whole idea of not being on camera to being pretty comfortable

on camera.

You and Doc do a show biweekly now.

But then you also are interviewing people on other shows for Ecampus Network.

And so, yeah, let's just talk a little bit today about interviewing and interview tips.

So we were talking a little bit before the show about how it feels interesting when we

were talking and it felt like a conversation.

But then as soon as you hit record, it almost feels like there's pressure to make the conversation

flow and everything.

So what's the very first tip that you'd give me as far as interviewing goes and helping

keep the conversation flowing?

Oh my gosh.

Well, I would say that if you're newer to interviewing, do yourself a favor and start

with friends or start with people that you can have those really great conversations

with because it will give you confidence.

It'll help you to put in the reps, but it'll also help you figure out what kinds of things

work, what kinds of questions really work well, what kinds of questions maybe don't,

and how your audience responds.

And again, if you're bringing out a friend, like Andy and I know each other pretty well

at this point, we're able to have good conversations.

So I know that if I was the interviewer and I had a moment of panic where I forgot a question

or I was looking flustered, I know Andy would dive in and start talking or share a different

experience.

You have someone that will cover you for that.

So I would say start with people that you're really comfortable with and then just take

notes every single time you're practicing it.

What worked really well, what didn't work really well.

There's a ton of different styles when it comes to interviewing people.

So get it.

Yeah.

Starting with getting in those reps and figuring out what works really well for you and what

your audience resonates best with.

What would you say is your interview style?

Oh gosh.

We were just talking about this.

I am definitely the conversational style interviewer.

I don't do a lot of prep work when it comes to questions.

I am the person that if I, and maybe this is because A, I'm a perfectionist and B, I

come from a writing background.

If I sit and write out what the perfect interview is for me.

So I write out what all the questions are.

I write out how I want it to flow, what the segments are.

If I write all of that out, when it comes time to actually doing the interview, I'm

so locked into those specific questions and that's my expectation for how I want the show

to go.

And it's never going to go like that because you could be having a really bad day as my

guest.

There could be a tech challenge.

I could forget the question.

One of the questions could not get the kind of answer I'm looking for.

So it really locks me into a way too rigid and way too tight a box really.

And so for me, I've found through experience really that if I do that, it's just not going

to work out the way that I want it to.

And it makes her really unpleasant situation and experience for both me and for my guests.

They can tell that I'm like really trying to focus on these specific questions.

If they get off track, I'm like clearly looking at the questions.

I'm clearly looking at the clock.

So I don't, I do a lot of research on the topic that I want to cover.

I do a lot of research on the person who I think is the best fit to help me answer questions

around that topic.

And then I just let it be a conversation.

You know, I want to pick their brain.

I want to share my own experiences as well because sometimes when I talk about my experiences,

it triggers something in the guest and they're like, oh yeah, and they can continue giving

more information and giving more value.

And it also lets me pull in any questions that I see coming through because most of

most of the interviews I'm doing are in a live environment.

So I can see questions coming through from, you know, viewers or listeners who are contributing

to the conversation.

So it, um, I think it gives a lot of flexibility and it makes it a more pleasant experience

for both me and for my guest.

Yeah.

I think for me, what I found the same thing.

I find that if I can get maybe five or six questions and I can send those to the guest

ahead of time, it helps lubricate them a little bit, you know, make them more fluent, make

more comfortable, right?

Especially if they've never done interviews before.

You and I have done interviews before, we're pretty comfortable on camera and chatting

with each other.

But a lot of times my guests on this podcast or the other podcasts that I do aren't super

aren't super fluent in doing interviews and talking with an interviewer.

And so if I can set maybe five questions and I tell them these are questions that we may

talk about just so it kind of gives them an idea of, of what the conversation flow may

go because if, if they don't know and they're not used to doing interviews, they may be

nervous and kind of clam up.

And you were talking about how you've interviewed people and they just do short one word answers.

It's just like, yes, no.

As an interviewer, that's, that's really hard when they just do a quick answer.

Do you have any tips for how to get people to keep talking and when they just say yes,

no, maybe.

What are the best ways to, to at least maybe not fully avoid this, but, but be ready to

deal with it is extend out the, the tech check.

So you know, if you're doing an interview and you're doing it in the world of video,

I hope that you are doing some kind of tech check where you're testing out people's audio

and camera and all of the, you know, all the things that make the show look and sound its

best, right?

But if you use some of that time to just chat with your guests casually before you go live

or you start recording, you're going to understand pretty quickly if how nervous they are or

if they're the kind of person that is very, there's just some people who are just very

curt, right?

They're like, the answer is yes.

And that's, that's the answer.

They're like, that's, and that's fine, but you will immediately identify that in that

time that you're chatting with them.

And so you could even say to them in, in that before recording time, Hey, you know, this

is my style.

I really want it to be much more of a conversation.

Please feel free to just, you know, share stories and examples.

You can get a little off topic.

You can get, you know, you can dive deeper into these tangents.

You know, I'm not, I'm not looking for any kind of one word, you know, official answers.

So you could call it out if you think that it might go that way.

Or if you think it's being caused because they're nervous, having that conversation

upfront and making it feel like it's very, it's a friendly, encouraging space is going

to help avoid that in the interview itself.

But if it does happen, like it, I think we're also afraid of these moments of silence.

And I actually think the moments of silence are not necessarily always a bad thing.

So just, you know, accept that and be like, Oh great, maybe you could, I laugh.

That's my kind of my defense mechanism.

Right.

So I might like laugh at that and be like, all right, great answer.

Next question, you know, moved and moved to something else, but you roll with it as best

as you can.

And I think that the kind of friendly, friendly conversation before you start recording and

setting expectations in that time is really important.

Like what you do with by sending the questions in advance, you can also do or follow up on

in that, you know, however much time you have before you actually begin the show.

Well, and I think having those questions also helps too.

Because again, if I get to the point where I don't really know what to ask next, I can

always look up and say, Oh, that's one of the questions that I had thought about doing.

So let's go with that.

And as far as the other things that I think too, is asking open ended questions.

So questions that are hard that you really can't just do a yes or no question to.

Or if you are asking a yes or no question, and they do answer yes or no, you could ask

them to expound on that.

Say, tell me more about that.

And that kind of forces them to, to expound on on their answer, if you will.

Yep, yep, absolutely.

So you'd mentioned that you do some preparation ahead of time for your interviews.

What then that's great.

I love that.

Because a lot of times that a lot of times if you don't have any preparation, yeah, that

that can be a problem.

Yes, yes.

And Mr. Moderator says, Hi.

So what are some things that you do to prepare not only for the topic, but also for the guest?

How do you prepare?

So I might actually be a little bit so I'm interested to hear how strange I am in my

in my process, because I think that a lot of people will research the guest, right.

So it's, it's, you know, you'll go back to their website, if they have a podcast, you're

gonna listen to their a few episodes of their podcast, you're going to kind of get a good

feel of, you know, who they are, how they sound, what their level of specialty is, for

most of what I'm doing.

I'm actually thinking topic first, and then I'm going through kind of my mental Rolodex,

if you know what that is, my mental list of like, who, who do I know, well, in my, you

know, sphere of influence, that would be a really great person to talk about this topic.

So I'm thinking about it as topic first, and then like, what kind of answers I want to

be able to get to my audience.

So in many cases, I know the guests really, really well, because I have I have selected

them based on my experience with them.

And and it's that experience with them that I know will help them answer those questions

for my audience.

So I actually don't need to do a ton of research on them, because I know who they are.

Like, for example, we have, we have Cassie Tucker coming on the flow next this upcoming

Tuesday, right?

I spent a bunch of time with her when I was at momentum.

I bet, you know, I've been kind of listening and watching her shows and some of the content

she creates.

I follow her a number of the social platforms.

So I know that she's like a marketing genius, right?

So, so if I'm thinking through and I'm like, Okay, well, I really want to do an episode

on you know, how to best market your podcast.

I'm going through my list of people and I'm like, well, I just hung out with Cassie at

momentum.

So we were like chatting face to face.

I know her presentation was on, you know, how to be better marketers for like live shows

and for podcasts.

So I know that she'll be able to speak to that content.

I've heard her speak to that content before.

So it I don't need to go back and like, listen to some of those episodes or kind of refresh

myself on that because I know that she's the best fit for that.

I have a lot of luxury, like, in that I go out to a lot of events and I spend a lot of

time with other creators and marketing professionals and people who are kind of in the top 10.

topics that I care about.

So it's it's pretty, I never have an issue finding a guest, it's pretty easy for me to

go through my list of people and be like, Yep, that would be a good a good fit.

And again, I have a relationship with them.

So then it's also easier when it comes to the conversation piece.

Well, and they're, they're more comfortable with you then because they have that conversation

ahead of time.

They know you.

And that's where I think if you're doing an interview with a guest that you're not necessarily

familiar with, do you especially do that?

I mean, tech check?

Yes, because for tech.

But during that time, you do what we did, we talk and kind of talk a little bit about

the questions we may talk about kind of just get a flow a sense for I keep using the word

flow, which is your other podcast, but the idea of you know, how it's gonna flow and

you get that kind of warmed up and conversation going ahead of time.

So it's not just a cold come in, get going.

And then, yeah, you don't really know the person.

So I find for me, like, a lot of our guests on on the podcast are people that I do know,

either me or my co host, and then or if I don't know, because we we get pitches all

the time.

I mean, I think anyone who does podcasts get pitches and half the time it's ones that I

have to filter out because they're ones that they have not done their research on us.

Yeah, exactly.

I don't know what to know what the show is like.

But but I think for the other ones, I do do research on them.

I'm going to their website.

I'm listening.

Like you said, I'm listening to podcasts that they're on.

I try to get some questions to that may not be ones that they've ever been asked before.

Because I think that that is memorable then.

And sometimes that's hard.

I mean, you have to do sometimes have to do a lot of a lot of research to get to get to

the point where you're finding out that question that that they may not have been asked before.

But I find that that that helps cut to kind of make the flow go better with the show.

Because then you Yeah, you have that information of them.

You're not just coming in cold.

You know, yeah.

So that's one of the things that helps me.

What I think you're good.

I think you're right.

I do want to say, and it's interesting.

So Doc, who is my co host on the flow, and I work closely with him at Ecamm.

He always says that that he's always like on the kind of hunt for the question that

they haven't been asked before.

I like I almost I don't, I don't tend to worry as much about that.

And maybe I'm wrong.

Like, I would just like to admit this.

Because I think that most of the people who I have on the shows that I'm doing are people

who are audience, my audience doesn't know all that well in that particular context.

So in my mind, I'm like, I less I don't mind as much if they are going to be answering

the questions that maybe they have a lot of content on already on their own show or as

other interview guests, because it feels pretty unlikely to me that my audience is, like,

is a giant fan of theirs and is kind of following them in all these different places.

Like I want I actually want the content that they're best at.

I mean, I care less obviously about like, if it's, you know, they're, they're, I guess,

their bio and stuff, stuff like that, where I can include that kind of in the marketing

around it, but the the actual like answers that they're providing, but I could be wrong

in that I just been thinking a lot about that, because Doc has been saying that a lot.

And I'm like, I don't know how much that actually matters to me into what I'm doing.

But it is a I mean, I think in certain instances, it makes a lot of sense.

Well, and I think to your point, I think that if they're comfortable with the set of questions

that they've been asked, maybe two or three times, they're gonna be better at, they're

gonna nail that.

They're gonna say it, they're gonna know it offhand, as opposed to have to think and maybe

do a lot of dead spots.

You know, I don't do a whole lot of editing for my podcast, right?

I'm a whole big fan of the live to tape live, you know, doing live video interviews live,

I do the live stuff.

And so for me, I don't do editing.

And so for me, if if someone has to take 30 seconds to think of the answer to the question,

that's going to make the show sound less professional, unless, yeah, then I might have to go back

and do more editing on to kind of cut those spaces down.

And so I think you are right, if you're gonna be able to be able to get those questions,

that people that they've already answered, and they know and can prepare for, they're

going to be better.

And it brings back to a point I heard you say, on the flow on the episode about interviewing,

that you don't like the pop quiz questions.

So I personally hate the questions because I'm, and I actually also don't like getting

questions in advance, like as an as an interview guest, because again, I am a dreadful over

thinker.

And so and I'm also really like, I care about the value that I'm bringing as an interview

guest.

And often I feel like, I feel like there's a gotcha about this doc and actually did and

I did like a whole episode on this a couple years back on the flow, where, where he was,

it was one of those like games where it was like, say the first thing that comes to your

mind was a similar kind of notion as, as the pop questions and I, I just fully pay like

my body just shuts down, which is why I won't, I won't ask you any questions that I could

I'll just stare blankly.

I mean, if it's, if it's like an easy one, like if it's, if it's like, you know, like

red or blue or when I'm like, I can answer those kinds of things.

But I always feel like a lot of those questions are like, you know, what's your like top marketing

tip?

And I'm like, I don't like I wasn't prepared for that.

Or I just can't, I don't know.

And then I feel it's that panic in that moment of like, I don't want to sound stupid.

And I also don't want to give bad advice to someone.

And I'm not capable of thinking that quickly on my toes and being able to provide value.

And that's, that's so for me, that's one of the things I don't worry.

I don't do that on this show.

It's on one of my other ones that we do that, but, but, but I always try to make them feel

comfortable too.

Before we start recording, I say, this is, you know, we are live streaming and, and I

don't do a whole lot of editing.

However, if you say something that you feel uncomfortable with or you don't, you know,

later think, shoot, I shouldn't have said that.

I say, let me know.

And I will edit that out.

And so I try to make people feel a little bit more comfortable and less like stupid,

if you will, for having to stumble over their words and over their thoughts, because they

are not familiar with it.

But so what, how would, how would you handle that?

So like, I would assume hopefully that if you were, I mean, as, as an interviewee, maybe

some of that, we can talk about some tips with that to somebody who's being interviewed.

Would you go and listen to the show?

So like if I invited you on my other podcast, would you listen to the show first so that

you may know, Hey, we do these pop quiz questions every time.

And would you feel comfortable telling the host?

I'm not so comfortable with that.

Yeah, that's a good question.

Um, I'm a total people pleaser.

So I probably wouldn't admit like that.

That was just between us publicly on my other show.

But I probably I would definitely if I if I'm able to make the time that week, you know,

I definitely try to listen to at least part of the show.

So I have a good idea of, you know, of what the content is like and what to expect.

I probably would just suck it up and do my best to work my way through it.

I probably wouldn't admit or ask for a change.

And I will say that like, I have certainly been on a number of shows where people send

the questions in advance.

And I what that does and why I don't like that particular aspect personally is that

it gives me a lot of time to go back into that place in my brain where I like think

through the exact per perfect quote unquote answer.

And I like write that down so that I like don't forget that answer.

And then when I'm actually in the interview, I'm like, never pleased with how I actually

phrased it because I want to just read the answer as I wrote it down.

So it just gives me that opportunity to overthink into, I think come across much more like rigid

and less myself and probably not actually help the person on the other side.

It just gives me that opportunity to be a total perfectionist about it and really just

want to answer once I've given it all that thought.

But once I've given it all that thought, I've written out the perfect answer the way I want

it and I just want to read it.

Yeah.

No opportunity to do that.

And I like conversations that are more of interviews that are more of conversations.

So again, if you have the questions written out, you find that like you said earlier,

you end up having to force yourself into those questions.

Right.

Same issue on both sides of the coin.

Yeah.

Right.

You end up having to, it's less of a conversation because you're going, Oh, well, I need to

get this and this and this.

And it may not flow.

And that's going to sound weird to the people listening because it's going to sound like

you had an agenda that you had to get out and it took you, you may have taken where

it didn't even need to go.

I think it's important to you to listen to what your interviewer or interviewee is saying

too.

So you ask a question as an interviewer, it's important to listen and not necessarily be

thinking of what our next question is going to be.

And so that's where having some prepared questions can help because if you get to the point where

because you're listening to the conversation because you're a good listener, you may not

have that next question in your mind.

So it may be easy to go, Oh, I'm a look at the next question and say it.

But yeah, I think it's a conversation is better to go to better to just be able to have that

conversation.

As Paul says, the answers can come across as scripted then too.

In my case, they literally are.

I should say actually on that note, you just reminded me of, I guess, like an extension

of my previous answer.

So I do a few different shows.

I do a show called Meet the Ecamm Fam, which Andy has been on, where I interview customers

from all different kinds of backgrounds and at all different skill sets and brand new

customers and people who have been with the brand for a long time.

And that show is the opposite of everything I said previously, where I actually have no

control over who's signing up for it because it's open and available to anyone.

Anyone can sign up for it.

And what I've done there to give myself some more time back and to make it an easier experience

as an interviewer is I have them fill out a pretty detailed, I guess not super detailed,

but a detailed questionnaire where I directly ask people, what do you want to talk about

in this show?

What are the things that are important to you?

And I always read through that carefully and reference that.

And so from that perspective, it's less about who they are as an expert and more about what

like, why did they want to come on as a guest?

Why did they decide to do this?

And what is it that they want to share?

And how can I facilitate that conversation?

So it's a different level of research where it actually doesn't matter as much, at least

I don't think, going back and researching them inside and out.

I think it actually matters more on really reading through and understanding what the

intention was behind why they want to be on the show and what it is that's important to

them that they would like to share and to get out.

And if I can get to that, those are the episodes that are the best and the ones that I want

to repurpose and they make, I think the most effective kind of case studies of how people

are using the software and what's really valuable to them.

So that's a different kind of research.

But again, it saves me a bunch of time, that upfront step of asking for that information

saves me a ton of research time where I would have to be like, you know, digging through

a whole bunch of stuff to figure out like, why and you know, and what makes them interesting

or special or unique to be able to share their story with the rest of our audience.

Well, and I think that that gives you the opportunity because that is a different style,

if you will, to most shows or most shows you're saying this is the topic we're going to talk

about.

This person knows a lot about the topics you're focused a lot on the topic.

Whereas meet the cam fam, it really is like you're just meeting them.

So it's like you're sitting down for coffee.

And they're saying, Hey, this is what I'm passionate about.

And you just digging in more about more digging in and trying to find more information about

that person to get to know them better.

And so yeah, that's a that's a that's a good point there.

So what happens if you have like blunders like where, where, like, how would you if

you if you stumble on your question, or you can't think of a question or what would you

have what some advice be that you can give for that where you just kind of as an interviewer

freeze or say something stupid or like, how do you handle that?

That's a really, really, it's a great question.

And it's a really complicated answer, because the unfortunate reality is that there, you're

just going to have to survive it.

And the only way that you get better at that and better at dealing with it and better at

not doing it is by practicing.

And so I guess I go back to my first answer, which is like, you have full control over,

you know, over what your content is over how you present yourself over the guests that

you bring on.

And so get like, give yourself a break, like set yourself up for success for the first

20 episodes, however many episodes bring on people, you know, like and trust people that

are going to cover, you know, cover you if you have moments that where you feel nervous

or you have, you know, you have things that go dreadfully wrong at like, and also, I I've

gotten really confident and incapable because I also have you mentioned Paul earlier, right?

Like I have I have friends and contacts and people who are also in the chat.

So you know, they're the first people that will point out like, you know, hey, there's

an audio problem or there.

So having people around you that can highlight what's going wrong and help you to solve it

quickly is going to make you feel more comfortable going through it and staying calm is going

to help you get better at figuring out the ways to troubleshoot and to solve it.

There's no way to practice it, there's no way to fake it, you've just kind of got to

experience it.

So in order to experience it, put put safe people around you so that you're experiencing

it not alone and you're experiencing it where you can get immediate help and it won't feel

as awful, right?

Like if you have like a really, I don't like a celebrity or someone that's like a really

big deal in the industry that you're in, you know, coming on to your show, like, I would

hope that you have done a ton of episodes and practice work beforehand with people that

you trust, so that you will have a level of confidence and you'll know what to do if

something goes wrong on the one that really, really gets you the most nervous or feels

the biggest to you.

And I think that happens.

I've been podcasting since 2007 and there are still people that I have on that make

me nervous, especially if they're more well-known people because it feels, it shouldn't, but

it feels bigger to me.

It really shouldn't.

It shouldn't feel any different, but it does.

Yeah, it does though.

Yeah, I hear you.

And I like your idea of practicing with people and you can do that several different ways.

You can just record, right?

Like beforehand, we, you know, we are live streaming this episode, but you don't have

to, you can just record and get used to asking the questions.

If you want it to, you could go.

I mean, everybody who has a Google account has a YouTube account too, that they can stream

to if they, that they want to, and doesn't have to be your show channel.

It can be just your personal channel and get some time in with the live streaming to take

it.

So you get comfortable with the idea that this is live and there may be people watching

because that, that feels different too, right?

It does when you're live, it feels different.

So do you, do you have, there's no way to, there's no way to like, unfortunately there's

no way to, to practice without doing it.

Like I was having a conversation yesterday with, with a friend of mine who is, has been

podcasting for a little bit and is seeing a ton of success.

And this was her first foray into like, maybe I could live stream this, this interview episode

as part of my podcast is kind of a special event.

And she was, is and was absolutely incredible because I basically said to her, she was like,

what advice do you have for me?

And I was like, I think you need to go live like before your interview later and you need

to just go like do it, do a live tech check.

And I'm like, you can do it as a recorded tech check.

You can do it as, you know, alive only to unlisted or what have you.

But if you want to actually have the full experience, including the feelings and nerves

that you're going to have, you should just go live and just go on and be like, Hey, I'm

testing all this out.

Likely a few things are going to go wrong.

Like help me test, drop comments and drop, you know, be just really honest about it.

And I was blown away because most people and probably including myself even a few years

back would have been like, I'm not going to do that.

Like I'm going to do great idea, Katie.

I'm going to, you know, I'm going to take that and then I'm going to just record a video

and make sure everything sounds great.

But she did.

She, she went and she tested and she caught a few issues and like, but it gave her those,

those reps in the experience that she was actually trying to have.

So if you are live streaming, you need to practice by live streaming.

If you are interviewing, you have to practice by interviewing.

You have to put yourself into that situation because otherwise you can have a really flawless

limited tech check and the issue that you have is like internet connectivity or you

know, or how a guest joins or a comment that doesn't show up correctly or whatever else

that you didn't get to practice because you didn't practice in the way you're actually

going to be creating the content.

Well, and I, I find too that people like to see behind the scenes too.

Right.

And so even if you're doing that on your show channel, whatever, they like seeing that being

real.

No one's going to hate you for it.

Like if you come on and you're like, I'm just testing nothing to see here.

Like they either hang out or they don't.

Right.

And it's not going to make your show less professional.

Right.

They like to see that they like to know that people are real people.

And so yeah, I 100% agree.

Do it.

Test it live.

So now, yeah, now you've, you've done lots and lots and lots of interviews.

Do you have any, any tips or tricks that I've not brought up yet?

Oh my gosh.

See, these are one of these questions where I'm like going through my head to make sure

I'm having a ton of value.

I mean, I, I think again, like if you are going to be an interviewer that you need to

be an interviewee first.

So you know, go, go and experience what that's like to be on the other side and then take

all of that information and use it to build out a really like seamless experience for

your guests because if it's not, it makes the entire experience worse for you and for

your viewers.

Right.

So I've been like lucky enough to, to, to be a guest on a number of different kinds

of shows.

I think I say yes to almost every single one that I get, which I'm proud of.

And I will, I don't know, of course, but like I'm proud of and I will, I will hold onto

that because I think sometimes we're like, oh, you know, well like I only, I'm very important

and very busy and I only have time to do like, you know, these shows that are like at this

level or above, but you will learn from every style of show and every level of show and

people who are, you know, have a really small audience and people who have a really big

audience and you'll be able to pull all of those things that you liked into an experience

that makes your show and your process special and a great experience.

So like shout out to Kirk Nugent.

I think I use him as an example every time we talk about interviewing, but he has like

a flaw in my mind, flawless guest experience.

Like he has like a really great automated process.

He's very clear with like, he's super clear with everything.

Like he tells you in advance, like exactly how long the episode is going to be, what

the segments are like, what the format is going to be, what he's expecting to get out

of it, what his viewers are expecting to get out of it, how you join, when the tech check

is like he walks you through that process, but in a way that doesn't feel too big or

too overwhelming.

Like it's just this really nice sequence of like, Hey, you know, here's what's to, what,

what's to, what you can expect as you go through this experience.

And what I really loved the most about all of it is he's probably one of the only people

that tells you exactly the amount of time and he sticks to it.

And so for me, like when I joined his show and his, the shows that I've been on for him

in the past, I've been in the evenings, I have little kids and like my, I'm pretty like

that evening is tend to, tends to be the time where like I don't do a lot of stuff because

I, I want that time to myself and, but he's like, Hey, you're going to join at like 7

PM.

We're going to go until 735 PM and then we're going to do like 10 minutes of questions and

then you're gone.

Like I do not expect you to stay.

You peace out and I continue on.

And I love that because I know like this is the amount of time I have to block off versus

some other ones where it's like, I assume I'm going to be on for an hour because I always

seem to be on for an hour.

And like there's also moments as a guest where like it, and I'm bad at even at doing this

as an interviewer, but like where the show ends and you're like, do I stay on a week

chat?

Do I like just like hang up?

Do I like, you don't really know what you're supposed to do and you don't want to offend

anyone.

So he's clear with all of that, which I think is great.

I think that's a great, a great thing to keep in mind because I think I forget that too,

especially in same all the time where we have, we have people who,

like, maybe not listening to the show, so they don't know what exactly to expect.

And so I think that's, that's one of those things where if you know, as I guess how long

to be there and it's interesting because I think on my other show we do some in person

interviews and we do some remote.

And so that experience is different too, because like you said, and I found E cam does the

nice fade out.

I mean, I know you can turn that off to fade, fade to black when you stop, but we've had

people that hang up as soon as that happens.

And it's like, no, I wanted to like, just thank you real quickly for the show.

So we got to the point where we said, once this is done, like we do it beforehand, but

like once this is done and we quit the show, just stay on for just a few seconds.

Yeah.

Just hang out and then we'll let you go.

But yeah, I, I, yeah, those are really, really great tips.

Any other tips that you can give us quickly?

Yeah.

I just, I mean, again, I'm sort of on this, if you've, if you've seen me or hang out with

me in any of my other content, I'm on this like journey for lack of a better word this

year of trying really hard to simplify things and to just get a little bit better every

single time.

And so I, you know, I think when it comes to, to guess stuff again, like you're going

to learn something every single time you do it.

So just, you know, like take a note.

And if you're like me and you overcomplicate things, like can I make, just be always asking

yourself like, and ask your, ask your guests on the other side of the interview, if you

can, if they stick around and you're able to hang out with them, like, you know, how

could I have made this experience better?

You know, what is, what is one thing that you like loved about being on this interview?

How is the, you know, how was the process like just be constantly kind of getting that

feedback and see if you can make tweaks to make the experience easier on yourself, maybe

a little bit more simplified and a better overall experience for your guests.

So and, you know, and make, try to figure out like what are those different changes

that you can make?

Like when we're doing right now is, so I'm doing a show survey for Ecamm to figure out

like which of our shows, you know, how are they all performing?

How do people like them?

What do they like or not like about each of the shows?

And then at the same time, Paul is helping me build out better calendars because I like

that's been a huge pain point for us this year is that we have like a lot of shows and

we have different ways people can sign up and I feel like I'm constantly losing the

information or I'm not asking the right questions or I like I haven't figured out or unlock

that that workflow.

So it's, again, I think there's just because you're in a particular format or you've, you've

convinced yourself that there's a particular way you should be doing things does not mean

you can't make a change.

So go and be a guest on other people's shows.

Ask your guests what their experience is like on your show and figure out how you can continue

and continually make it a little bit better or make it easier and save yourself time and

hassle.

So I that's been my big thing.

And I think that applies obviously to anything but certainly in the world of interviewing.

Awesome.

Well, Katie, I want to thank you so much for being on the show.

I really appreciate it.

I realize I didn't tell you how long to expect.

No, no, I wasn't meaning to call you out.

You're good.

I block off an hour for all of these things.

So yeah, thank you guys so much.

If you have any podcasting questions, feel free to go to podcastanswers.com/contact.

I'd love to work with new podcasters, getting them set up.

Thanks again, Katie for being on the show.

My pleasure.

See you next time.