Shownotes
It's time for a recap of our latest episode of Common Sense Ohio with Norm Murdock, Steve Palmer, and Brett Johnson. Here are the highlights in just 45 seconds:
1. The Reagan Tokes Act: We dive into the implications of this act, which has brought back indeterminate sentencing and increased the power of the parole authority. Join us as we examine the Act's impact on the judicial system and the consequences it may have on prisoner rehabilitation.
2. Remembering Joe the Plumber: We pay tribute to the late Joe Wertzelbacher, a symbol of the average conservative and the struggles faced by the middle class. We reflect on his influential role during the presidential campaign and explore the themes he represented.
3. Unveiling Our Sponsor: Exciting news! We are thrilled to announce our new sponsor, Harper Plus Accountants, owned by Glenn Harper. Glenn has been our trusted accountant for 28 years, and his accounting and consulting services have been crucial to keeping our show running smoothly. Be sure to check them out!
4. This Day in History: Join us as we travel back in time to September 1, 1939, a day that marked Hitler's invasion of Poland—an event that changed the course of history. We'll delve into the significance of this day and its ramifications that echo through the present.
5. Immigration Impact: We share our views on the need to establish a crime commission to investigate illegal immigrant crimes. We discuss the potential challenges Ohio may face with an influx of immigrants and examine the experiences of other states, like California.
6. Abortion Debates: The highly debated topic of abortion takes center stage as we explore the 6-week heartbeat bill in Ohio. We unpack the complexities surrounding the regulation of abortion and discuss the constitutional and legislative implications of this issue.
7. School Bus Safety: As experts on school bus contracting, we are puzzled by the formation of a committee to address school bus deaths or injuries—considering the low frequency of such incidents. We share our insights and challenge the necessity of such a committee.
8. Recent Tragedy: A recent crime in Columbus, involving a thirteen-year-old who took a fatal shot, has captured public attention. We share details of the case and examine the legal procedures surrounding it, including the limitations on charging a minor as an adult.
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Thanks for tuning in to Common Sense Ohio, where we explore the issues that matter to you and our great state. Stay tuned for more episodes and stay connected for updates. Don't forget to like, share, and follow! See you next time!
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Transcripts
Oh, come on.
Steve Palmer [:Not always, but a lot of times he does. the two people that seem to beat me now in history, Norm, and my sixteen year old son.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah. Matthew. He's sharp.
Steve Palmer [: h. So, this day in history in: Norm Murdock [:Yeah. what a lot of people probably don't know when you get into the granular details of of how that attack was justified to the German people by Hitler. because the the Wehrmacht leadership, the German army, and the people, they did not want a war. This was This was sprung on the German people by Hitler, and he had to figure out a way to to, CYA. So him and, Gerbles Joseph Gerbles, the minister of propaganda. It came up with a a a a false story. So what they did is they took Polish prisoners out of from German jails. They dressed them up in, Polish military uniforms and they killed him inside of a German radio station on German land and they therefore claimed that this radio station was in an unprovoked attack, but by the Polish army that the Polish government, in fact, invaded Germany. And so Germany, commenced, you know, hostilities to defend itself. Right? So that, I mean, it's just a classic false flag operation. And, of course, Germany overnight had parked a battleship in the harbor of Gdansk, Poland. And basically at point blank range decimated the Polish navy right there at their at their at their home, base. and, of course, Poland was split between the because this was all premeditated. It was split between the Soviet Union and, and Germany, Nazi, Germany, they had a non aggression pact. You could say in a way they were allies, And, of course, later on, Hitler invaded Russia as we all know and stabbed them in the back like he stabbed Europe in the back. So, you know, and the rest is history.
Steve Palmer [:There we go. And, introduced the world to a whole new form of warfare that that maybe we were Staten and crew were stumbling upon towards the end of World War 1, but, the blitzkrieg that involved mobile warfare are not digging into trenches and waiting to get Yeah. Decimated when you go over the top.
Norm Murdock [:Combined with, air power.
Steve Palmer [:And combined with air power, lightning warfare, as they would say. And, you know, the learned the hard way that their imaginary line was no match for that a little bit later. And, German just took his lightning warfare and his fast tanks went right around
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So
Steve Palmer [:what do you do when you're there's a big wall in the southern board? I mean, what what do you do when there's a big wall that's not complete? You just go around it. Yeah. Anyway. So, comments says, Ohio, bringing you the news, bringing you Ohio centric, discussions, but, you know, we get a launching point to talk about everything else going on in the world is a funny, saying I like to say is that, oh, as Ohio goes, so does everybody else. If you think I'm wrong, well, call us up and leave us a comment at common senseohioshow.com. If you wanna be a guest, same place, common senseohio show.com. With that norm, Norman's got his entire folder notebook here today, his trapper keeper, and, he's ready to rock and roll. So taking notes as we speak, you can't see it, but trust me that'll change too soon. Well -- What you got, man?
Norm Murdock [:Well, we should probably talk about some Ohio news right off the top. 1 of the, real heroes, of the, I guess you would say the average conservative man, the the guy in the streets, the entrepreneur class, the, you know, the merchant class part of the conservative movement was a gentleman named Joe Wertzelbacher. And otherwise known as Joe the plumber, and he passed away this past week, at the age of forty nine years old of Toledo, Ohio. Now Joe, just to refresh people, if if if you don't recall, he was the fellow. You know, everybody was dazzled by Barack Obama. Right? Yep. And we were, you know, and and I have to say, you know, suburban middle class white folks, were sort of dazzled by this guy because he was talking about, you know, let's resolve racial discord and let's, you know, he seemed very reasonable when he was campaigning. And in the middle of his campaign, he went to Toledo and Wirtzel Bacher wasn't really falling for this facade that we we later obviously found out Obama was a completely different person than he advertised himself to be. It it was far more radical. In fact, some people say he's running the Biden White House today. But at any rate, Wertzel Bacher, Joe the plumber, Owned his own plumbing business. You know, probably him and one other guy, right? Small couple vans. Any any basically was Wait a minute. You're gonna you're gonna do this for the poor people. You're gonna do this for the rich people. The people in the middle are the ones that always get stuck paying the bill. And so when you talk about tax reform, you know, let's get specific. Let's get into the real nitty gritty here. And Obama was not used that. He was not used to being challenged on the campaign trail. he he it rocked him back on his heels, and Joe never did get a straight answer to his questions. And, but yet, he became emblematic of that that person who we all in the middle, we all feel that we're discounted, you know, our f k junior right now campaigning for the Democrat nomination is saying very similar things that the middle class has been forgotten that were it's shrinking. It's getting poorer. and there's all these benefits for everybody else, but the people in the middle, are struggling.
Steve Palmer [:Well, there there's a bigger there's a bigger parallel here, and I'm make not making it up. I'm thinking this through as I go here, but, you know, the Marxist idea was that only only through this sort of revolution or this rising of the we we have to overthrow everything. We have to destroy everything. We have to there's gonna be this uprising and it's all gonna happen. Well, it didn't happen. And March sort of thought it was gonna happen first in the United States and and Great Britain, the sort of the capitalist countries. And what really happened is people like Joe the plumber, advanced. You know, they're they're they increase their wealth. They they They moved themselves out of poverty through the capitalistic system. You know, Joe, the plumber didn't start with 2 trucks. He started with a car, and then he bought a truck. And then he started working for somebody else, learn the trade, then bought his own, then advanced and advanced and advanced and advanced. And, you know, at the same time, you had these sort of Marxist thinkers. I hate to even use that word too strongly, but it will call them academics in the universities, etcetera, who sort of thought that this was gonna be the case. And what they instead saw, and I think what they are what maybe fast forward a 100 years, what what they're seeing is people like Joe Plummer doing well, actually making money and, advancing themselves. And and, you know, there's a lot of millionaires who pour concrete for a living who clean out septic tanks for a living who do have a plumbing business who are electricians. and or, you know, they run a they run a small store or whatever it is. And, you know, I think there's this notion that the smart people in quotes think that they should be the ones that are making all the money, but there were they're earning $60 a year or $70 a year at a university. teaching. And, you know, they don't like Joe the plumbers. They don't they don't like that. And, you know, it's the nasty, sin of envy. I think really at the heart of it. Yeah. They think they're smarter. They they should be the ones that are that are telling Joe the plumber what to do because they're smarter after all they're educated in their their academics and intellectuals. And, you know, there I think there was some of that. I I sensed that with Obama. Right? He just thought that he was he was smart or whatever, and and it's certainly with Hillary too, you know, she in fact, she called Joe the plumber, the deplorable.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. And we're we're clinging to our bibles and our guns. Yeah. You know, her put downs of the middle class. And I think there's really a lot to what you're saying. I think every successful middle class merchant or entrepreneur or lawyer or doctor or whatever, you know, the people that are, you know, plumbers, roofers, the people that are working every day with their hands or or, you know, on their feet in a courtroom or, you know, a boardroom or whatever, those kinds of middle class success stories undercut the socialist theory and and they are exhibits a, b, and c of why socialism is a failed
Steve Palmer [:theory. Those people have succeeded despite socialistic policies, not because of it. Yeah. Right. It it the socialistic policies actually are blankets over their business.
Norm Murdock [:And it's hard to breathe.
Steve Palmer [:It's a threat. It's a
Norm Murdock [:threat to them.
Steve Palmer [:And and you know what? I also think looking back, you know, we didn't know what was to come. -- and when Obama was running and and was that 08. Is that right? When when Joe the plumber and Obama had their
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:it wasn't the second time around. It was the first time around, but, I think. You know, what we didn't know is that Joe the plumber would become the trump supporter. Like, that, you know, because it it's almost like that moment in time. Yeah. Everybody's eyes were open to the fact that, wait a minute. You're not here for me. Yeah. Right.
Norm Murdock [:Right. That was a rise of the tea party
Steve Palmer [:at that time. Yeah. -- abandoned by of completely abandoned us. And then 8 years later, Hillary is calling him deplorable. And then Trump gets elected on the looking at that, like, really, Trump's instincts on this were really dead on. You know, he sees that these people have nobody anymore. That's right. It used to be like the old school, Democrats. sort of like, Kennedy right now is pitching. You know?
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Like, he is that guy. So you know, for years, that's that's those were Kennedy Democrats.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Taking care of the working class, middle class folks. And, you know, I think that that laid the groundwork, and that is the I think you're right. That exposes the soft underbelly Soft underbelly of socialism and Marxist policies. Yeah. It just those people get left behind. They have to because they have to want they're the ones that pay.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I I don't know what Joe, succumbed to, you know, just the item in the paper. We've Oh,
Brett Johnson [:I think I found it was, pain pancreatic cancer.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, yeah.
Brett Johnson [:That's a joke. I mean,
Steve Palmer [:you get pancreatic cancer. Like, that's like -- Yeah. -- you hear that, and it's it's months. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:because it was 49. 49. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:That's too bad. Well, you
Norm Murdock [:know, left behind, I think, 2 or 3 kids in a while. Yeah. Bad bad bad story. Another way to bring us up, Norm. well, since we're when they're since we're down right now, I I cannot this again this reminds me of that murder suicide thing that that happened down in a southwestern Ohio another one this past week, this one in Union Town, which is Stark County, Ohio, a family of 5, a forty six year old father and husband killed his wife and his 3 kids, you know, in a murder suicide thing. And, you know, I'm sure they're gonna try to determine why, but, I mean, obviously, he was mentally sick.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I mean, those are,
Norm Murdock [:I mean, I just can't get over that kind of thing.
Steve Palmer [:It it just is it's impossible. Right? I I can think of nothing.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. 15, twelve, and nine year old children.
Steve Palmer [:anybody, like, there there may be you lucky few have never faced depression on any level, you know, and there's different kinds of depression. There's sort of the chronic that people are maybe that's how they're wired. And then you've got the sit situational type of stuff. Something you're going through a divorce and something bad happens to you or whatever it is. But it's like and I've been there, you know, on both both sides of that. Yeah. I I have never once thought ever about, like, how do you get to the point where you're gonna end your own life and everybody around
Brett Johnson [:and take everyone out It's I know.
Norm Murdock [:because they're the people you love most on the face of the earth. right? Your own children.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Your your wife. I mean, how could you possibly
Steve Palmer [:I would love to hear a competent psychologist sort of explain how, like, what's the pet be because look, what we do here is we discuss this kind of stuff. So how does somebody, like, What is the what's the psychology that gets them there? What what about what part of depression do are they suffering? Like, what's their thought process? Like, the world's so bad that I can't let my kids live in it? Or are they saying, you know, none of this makes any sense, but are they saying like, alright, if I'm gone, it's gonna hot cause them so much harm. I might as well just take them too. like, trying to do that in favor. I I I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. There's been a string of these. I mean, I the the one case I also can't get out of my head, and it just a nightmare is that the lady who released the parking brake on her car with her kids in it and, you know, if she blamed it on, I think she racially blamed it on some mythical non existent black guy, right, that it turned out there was that didn't exist. I can't think of her name, but she's in federal prison or Georgia prison or whatever.
Steve Palmer [:Which is crazy.
Norm Murdock [:Elizabeth something or whatever. Yeah. And, you know, 3 or 4 kids in the car, and she just let them drown in a lake. You just Jesus. And it just never
Steve Palmer [:it it's just complete. There's nothing that makes any sense about it. Another crime happened recently along those lines is anybody in Columbus has watched this. There was a you know, sort of this high noon fight at Eastern, shopping center. And, we had a thirteen year old, shooting kill, his adversary, you know, and You know, this is I was over at the prosecutor's office on another matter recently and I was talking to the gentleman who was involved in prosecuting the case and half their offices, you know, it's the talk of the town. And, you know, you you try to get your head around how this happens. Like, how like, what is it? And, you know, I get, apparently, the kid just had a gun and thought he was gonna he might have been shot, so he's gonna shoot first. I mean, just utter insanity. Yeah. And, you know, he's thirteen. thirteen years old. So -- Yeah. -- I've gotten a lot of questions. I'll just answer it now. People are like, shouldn't he be an adult prisoner? Shouldn't he be charging it? You can't do that when they're thirteen. So or, He's too young at 14, you can, but at 13, he's in Juvie Court, and he'll be in Juvie Court, probably in, the Department of Youth Services, which is sort of the juvenile version of prison versus jail. That's print.
Norm Murdock [:They even protect his identity, don't they? Yeah. I'm pretty sure
Steve Palmer [:they they don't release. -- court, but yeah. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:They won't release name, typically.
Steve Palmer [:the news the news will publish it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They will. But, he'll be in the department use services until he's 21. There's something else in Ohio called a serious youth offender where if you screw up, while you're in D Y S in theory, you can maybe get transferred later over to adult court or adult prison, but You know, it's it's just it's utterly tragic and it it's gotta make you think what is going on culturally here that we're killing. Like, the the kids are shooting each You know, it just is like, it's utter insanity. And, you know, you could blame the guns and people will.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, sure. Right.
Steve Palmer [:and your guns are ubiquitous in society. If didn't have any guns. If we just didn't have, these kids didn't have access to guns or whatever it would be. this wouldn't happen. Well, you know what? The fact is our kit the guns are ubiquitous in our society, and you can't legislate them away. And, you know, something more is going on other than access to firearms. Sure.
Brett Johnson [:Alright. When you have access to knives, you have access to a lot of things that can kill another person that just is maybe the easiest quickest Yeah. You know, that's where things
Steve Palmer [:-- Certainly the most deadly. Right?
Brett Johnson [:So -- A little for sure. Yes.
Steve Palmer [:If you're gonna pull a gun on somebody, that's gonna be the surest way to kill him --
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:-- as opposed to, like, attacking with a knife, which certainly will kill and and proven to do so over and over and over throughout the years. But, it's not like 50 years ago, kids didn't have access to guns. They did. I mean, there were there were, you know, they're probably easier access, frankly.
Brett Johnson [:Well, when I when we were in high school, it was you just fought. You fought.
Norm Murdock [:Right. It was fisticuffs.
Steve Palmer [:Fisticuffs. Get your ass kicked.
Brett Johnson [:And that was We're not. And and lived to tell the tale. Yeah. I yeah. Gun guns were never really a a part of this.
Steve Palmer [:wasn't I
Brett Johnson [:don't remember that at all.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. You know, in guns existed.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, for sure.
Steve Palmer [:Gun's existed. So I don't
Brett Johnson [:An easier access to them too probably.
Steve Palmer [:I I probably Well, back
Norm Murdock [:back then, sixteen year olds were allowed to buy firearms in Ohio.
Steve Palmer [:Is that right?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And I did. I went down to Kmart, bought my first rifle the day I turned
Steve Palmer [:6.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and that's a good point. You've got all those supermarkets. I should call them supermarkets, but the Kmart's the
Steve Palmer [:-- Hallmark's had gotten
Brett Johnson [:had guns. Yeah. They all did. Yeah. Probably serviced some merchandise
Steve Palmer [:in there. Series. we were gun at Sears Cali.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. But that doesn't mean we went out and bought them. I mean, you did, of course, but -- Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:--
Brett Johnson [:the access was there.
Norm Murdock [:What did a little 22 squirrel gun? And to target you. I was a boy scout. I had my little, you know, marksmanship merit badge, and there was nothing more American red, white, and blue than having a squirrel gun.
Steve Palmer [:You know? I didn't hunt back them, but I remember guys in my grade school talking about getting their first twenty gauge because they were slug hunting deer at that time. And -- Yeah. You know, they would shoot their dough whatever, but it was theirs. Right? It was their gun. And when they got a little bit older, they got a twelve gauge because you still use those kind of twelve gauge slug guns and Ohio. But, you know, it's,
Brett Johnson [:But you're also talking about respect for that
Steve Palmer [:gun. Yeah. They were taught and, look, it wasn't --
Brett Johnson [:And and
Steve Palmer [:and -- -- wasn't just wealthy people, and it wasn't just people. It wasn't just farm people.
Norm Murdock [:Like, my parents didn't buy it. I bought
Brett Johnson [:it with
Norm Murdock [:money from cutting lawns.
Steve Palmer [:So it's like, I don't know what the I don't know what the deal was, but they did have respect for the, like, like, a pride almost in a good in a good sense. You know, it's like, I got I got a 20 gauge guys. You know, it's like, Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So the that connoted responsibility unless you were a total jackass. In which case, you were probably gonna get in trouble and, you know, go to Juvy court.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And the ones that respected the tool didn't hang around the tool.
Steve Palmer [:No.
Brett Johnson [:You know, they didn't wanna get in trouble with him.
Steve Palmer [:It it it certainly our our
Brett Johnson [:shot because he was an idiot. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:He certainly demystified it. So it's like -- Yeah. You know, I was around power tools my whole life. And I, you know, I I'm drawing parallels here. Who knows if they're accurate? But I was draw like, I've, you know, I had a healthy respect for what a joiner would do, a would joiner. I had a healthy respect for what circular solid table saw would do because I was around them and I understood it
Norm Murdock [:and yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know, but if I were out on my own trying to figure that out, I probably would have more than 9 and a half fingers.
Brett Johnson [:Well, you go through one shop class and you have a a fellow student cut off their finger. You have a I which I did in in a trade. Wow.
Norm Murdock [:and made an impression.
Brett Johnson [:It makes a huge impression. Yeah. That's like all of a sudden, and you're seeing the finger lay on the ground.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Right. It's a mess.
Brett Johnson [:It's a mess. And you kinda go, you know, he was screwing around the table saw. Yep. You knew he was. So now
Steve Palmer [:you wonder, we all had kids that had to drive. And, you know, I I went through this And I I don't even say it's brief. I mean, it's I still it still lingers with me. Like, when you trust your sixteen year old or fifteen year old to get his temporary license, and then take and then get behind the wheel. It it it is a it would be really easy parenting not to let him do that. but it would be the wrong parenting. Right. It would be the wrong parenting. It would be really easy parenting to protect your kids from everything, but it's not right. It that's bad parenting. So it's like it's like everything else. You know, it's always hard to do the right thing and the right thing is almost always harder than the wrong thing. You know, it's like it's
Norm Murdock [:That whole chapter in Jordan Peterson's book that the 12 life lessons or whatever it's called. 12 rules. The the chapter about When you see kids skateboarding, you know, out there on stairs and rails, and it's very dangerous. encourage that. You know, like, kids need to take risks. They need to find out where that line is.
Steve Palmer [:At a time when they can't It where the where look, it's certainly dangerous and you might break a leg and you might do something that even kills you.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:But the consequences of that versus learning that as an adult where you're really out there in the in on your own in the middle of the ocean are are it's trivial.
Norm Murdock [:Well, he's talking about, you know, you take all these public parks and all these corporate, you know, areas and, you know, in front of their headquarters and you, you de kid yet, so to speak. You you put up, little chinks along the guard rails and you, you know, arrange the the flower pots so that the kids are not welcome there. They're not gonna goof around there, and the adults won't be bothered, quote, unquote, by the kids. But then you've got a whole generation of kids that just sit in the basement now on their phones or whatever.
Steve Palmer [:And they and they can't they they're incapable of of tolerating risk. That's it. That's the that's the problem. And when they do, it's like it's like this huge thing where they have to say screw it and they leap off the cliff and then they don't know the cliff's gonna
Norm Murdock [:kill right.
Steve Palmer [:It's like,
Brett Johnson [:or living in a virtual world where any consequences does not hurt them.
Steve Palmer [:There is no consequences.
Brett Johnson [:They get to hit replay. Right.
Norm Murdock [:So you got the kid who goes to college. you know, the 1st week he joins a Greek organization, a a a fraternity or sorority, and then just, you know, sometimes kill themselves by overdrinking.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So get your kids drunk at 15. Teach them how to do it.
Norm Murdock [:But demystify it. Right? Demy mystified him. my Or
Brett Johnson [:at least have a sit down with him. Okay. This is what's going to happen. You're going to be tempted to do this.
Norm Murdock [:Both of my son's first fear was with me.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right. Tell them the reality of drinking too much.
Steve Palmer [:The I I I the meme that always comes up or meme or meme meme that always comes up on my phone is like the kid from the eighties. Jumping on the with his BMX on him homemade ramp, and that was me. You know, we did that. We built a homemade ramp. He jumped on it. Yeah. And I wrecked a couple times and, you know, we were doing it. And I remember that my heart racing as I was riding up to it the first time, and I'm just gonna, you know, you almost close your eyes and just do it. You're scared, you know, crapless.
Norm Murdock [:You were hot rod. And and your wife. Andy Sandberg.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And you're like and and you're like, you you did it, and there's a sense of accomplishment for it. And then you could do it again.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And I remember one of my counselors, one of my kids, we were in it was talking to a counselor about child counseling, and he was like, you know, find something your kid likes to do and let him do it because then he might find something else he likes to do. And let him do that.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. And, really, what he
Steve Palmer [:was saying is, incrementally, you gotta encourage this stuff. You gotta encourage the risk taking. Like Jordan Peterson would say, you have to encourage that.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Let's your kid go. Yeah. And and experience the the hot stove.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And touch it once.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Sports is great. another thing in Ohio this past week, and this this drives me crazy professionally as well as as a, you know, philosopher about things, you know, political My favorite governor, Duane, is once again, you know, taking advantage or I don't know. Exploiting. I don't know why what their exact word would be, but he is virtue signaling with this stupid school bus safety task force that he just appointed, which frankly the coffee and Danish budget for this thing you know, probably could pay for seat belts if they think that's a good idea, which it's not, but we can get into that if we want to. We talked
Steve Palmer [:about that a little bit later.
Norm Murdock [:We talked to And this is regarding that eleven year old, child who tragically, obviously, do do I have to use that adverb that that died in that school bus
Steve Palmer [:It's awful.
Norm Murdock [:Accident in over in the Springfield area. And the the putative purpose of this committee is to look into the causes and remedies for school bus, deaths or injuries. Well, I got a little statistic for governor DeWine because I'm probably one of the 5 or 6 best experts on this subject in Ohio. and not patting myself on the back. I just spent maybe 15 years or so of my life lobbying for school bus contractors. So I know this stuff. Basically, there is one death on a school bus due to a traffic accident every 2 years. So we're talking about, nationally, you know, in in in the country, on board a bus, due to a crash, school bus now, not metro bus, not not tour buses, not any other kind of bus. We're talking about yellow school buses, one death every 2 years. The last stats that I looked at and yet we're gonna have this group of people that the superintendent of the state patrol a parent, a school bus mechanic. You know, he did the typical shotgun. Let's get a cross section of society. Whatever. And they're gonna just they're gonna discuss How to prevent one death every 2 years nationally. We're we're gonna actually explore that. So I thought of some other things that they might wanna look into might be like how to prevent lightning strikes or, land shark attacks or, asteroids, you know, falling on people.
Steve Palmer [:Well, this is this is I
Norm Murdock [:I just honest to god, what are the the what are you waste of Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:But but he doesn't do get to do a photoshoot like that that he gets to sit in a school, but he gets to sit in a school bus, try to see him. hearly.
Norm Murdock [:By the way, you
Steve Palmer [:should go go ahead.
Norm Murdock [:By the way, Steve, just hold your thought. I want you to say go go right back to your thought. But What caused this death of this eleven year old a couple weeks ago was an illegal immigrant. It has now come out. We didn't know this last week. the driver of the Honda Odyssey minivan with all that that entails. Honda Odyssey.
Steve Palmer [:There it is. That's why bring it up again -- That's -- -- reaching a rock. --
Norm Murdock [:honest to god. Maybe because if you want a profile, Bad driver
Steve Palmer [:-- -- 1. I'm gonna buy 1. I'm gonna come to your house every
Norm Murdock [:It's Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna van drivers. Those two vehicles. At any rate, illegal immigrant five year old guy. I don't know if he was drunk or, you know, why he crossed the the median, but he hit this, school bus head on. Go ahead, Steve.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. So everybody and we talked a little bit about this last week, maybe a lot. I don't remember, but everybody should go read Thomas Sol's basic economics because this is what he he taught. There's a whole section on this where If you try to target, like, politicians will do this. They'll they'll target, like, one thing because it's political theater. It makes them look good. Their political capital goes up. Dewine gets to take a picture himself, Brett, like you just showed on a school bus.
Brett Johnson [:Sitting in a school bus at the at on the driver's seat, he looks like a moron. I'm sorry.
Steve Palmer [:As if the wine and his -- Oh my god. -- his appointed crew of cronies are gonna be able to solve this problem.
Brett Johnson [:Oh,
Steve Palmer [:it's it's complete nonsense. So then you run into my my least favorite saying of all times, everybody's heard me bitch about this. We gotta do something. We gotta
Brett Johnson [:do something.
Steve Palmer [:We gotta do something. because usually when people say we gotta do something, what they're doing next they're sort of acknowledging isn't gonna work, but we just gotta say we did we tried something. So we gotta do something.
Brett Johnson [:Let's hope that's what this 13 member panel is just gonna just gonna have some coffee donuts, talk it out.
Norm Murdock [:I gotta
Steve Palmer [:do something.
Brett Johnson [:And we looked at it.
Steve Palmer [:No. Then they're gonna have to do something because if they get paid for it, they're gonna have to justify. They're gonna have to
Brett Johnson [:pass bullshit law. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:So we all gotta follow. And that law, according to Thomas Sol, and he's right. We'll have unintended consequences.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. It will. the
Steve Palmer [:bad things will happen as a result of it. I don't know where they are, but can't plug all the holes in the dike at the same time. You can't do
Norm Murdock [:it. Right.
Brett Johnson [:Well, you mentioned last week, seat belts would probably be worse. That's probably where it's gonna go.
Steve Palmer [:be worse. Right?
Brett Johnson [:It That's probably where it's gonna
Steve Palmer [:always scarcity in the world, and there's always gonna be some adverse consequence to it. And then, you know, a a a a judge who I thought was a very good judge up in Delaware County Municipal Court Judge Sunderman. he said one time, and I've never forgotten this. He goes, look, usually when laws are named after somebody, they're great laws. Right? Because they're designed to deal with the 1 in a million situation. You know, it's like -- Right. -- you have, you have these laws named after
Norm Murdock [:Well, like like that pay equity law that Obama passed, the Neli, whatever her name was, pay equity law. Right? you know, for women, when there were already laws against discrimination on the basis of gender
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it -- Right. So now we have a different one. And it's like and we have now in in criminal, we have something called the Reagan Tokes Act because Reagan Tokes tragically There was a guy who was released from prison on parole or on early or on post release control or whatever it was. And while he was out on a supervision, he killed somebody. And it's horrible. But now they've changed the landscape of Ohio sentencing and how it has to work and everything is indeterminate sentence again. The stuff we got away from back in the nineties, we had you know, truth and sentencing where if you got 4 years, you did 4 years. Now it slipped back to, like, 4 to 10. And, you know, all it does is blow up It it it said this is what it's about. Right? It bloats up, the high adult parole authority and gives them more authority, more power, more employees, more money, to administer a doomed, philosophical program that does nothing other than create more problems for prisoners. Right. So if the idea is to rehabilitate them and you think some board is gonna be able to decide that better than a judge or better than the sentencing judge or whatever it is. It's nonsense. You're taking away discretion from the judicial system, giving it to the brown shirts and, the executive branch. and it just is, it's ill fated. And this is good. We're gonna run into something like this with this law. There's gonna be some that kid's name who died tragically, horribly, And anybody who takes a clip of this and says, now, you know, now that we were famous and we're sort of spreading, we're gonna start getting these clips, and they're gonna take us out of right.
Norm Murdock [:Well, we all
Steve Palmer [:we all feel horrible. Of course. It's the worst thing that can possibly happen to -- Well,
Norm Murdock [:in the
Steve Palmer [:-- -- child, the family, everybody else.
Norm Murdock [:And the approximate cause of his death was somebody who's in the country illegally.
Steve Palmer [:Right. And I wouldn't even go. So look. That that's an anecdotal interesting fact to me, but it's irrelevant. I don't think the guy went left the center because he was an illegal a.
Norm Murdock [:Well, if he wasn't here, it wouldn't have happened.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That that sort of but for causation is a hard one, though. I mean, you could
Norm Murdock [:if you if that we could
Steve Palmer [:take that apart logically.
Norm Murdock [:If you'll if you'll if you'll bear with me, it I believe that this is correct. I read that of the prisoners in the California penal system, for example, the illegal immigrant population is way overrepresented as a percentage of population in the general, that that they make up something like
Steve Palmer [:20 25%,
Norm Murdock [:like, one out of every four people in the California penal system is an illegal now.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That's a look. That doesn't surprise me. And I'm not saying I support
Norm Murdock [:No. No. I I didn't mean I no. I'm not criticizing you at all.
Steve Palmer [:No. But the the logic of but for causation, it's a slippery slope. You could say but for the fact that this person were here illegally, it wouldn't have happened. You could say but for the fact that, he lost a job in Mexico or but for fact that he was born. You know, you can you can you can roll that back.
Norm Murdock [:Of course. But but if you're the family of a victim like that, that lady there's that famous case out there, I think, in Phoenix where this illegal robbed her son running a convenience store set him on fire, right, after he shot him, set him on fire. And of course, the young man died. and you're just like, you know, why are we so loose at our border that, you know, I mean, we have enough domestically grown criminal Like, we don't need to bring in more.
Steve Palmer [:That that's all I'm saying. And but I don't think this is something you can this is not maybe maybe here's the logical flaw that I just wanna make sure. I and I I know you're not saying this. Not all illegal immigrants. No. Engaging criminal activity aside from being a
Norm Murdock [:legal immigrant.
Steve Palmer [:that are and break the long go left to center. It could have easily have been Oh, sure. Everybody else normally hates in events.
Brett Johnson [:In in a in a hot amen event. Right. You know, on the minivan.
Steve Palmer [:Sure. Of course. -- minivan drivers. Yeah. So, look, it's it's awful. It's tragic. The fact that anybody with the with the notion that somehow dewine and his nepitistic cronies are gonna be able to fix this through some sort of fancy study after how many years of school buses? Yeah. Right. It's completely.
Norm Murdock [:It's been studied before. I just think that, like, while he's appointing commissions, why not appoint a crime commission to look into illegal immigrant crimes in the state of Ohio, and I think it might be eye opening. I wouldn't be surprised if we are going to see as more people come to Ohio, you know, like like is the trend now every state's a border state that we're gonna find that our schools, our health care system, every other system is gonna get flooded by illegal immigrants, and so will our prison population. It I just think it's inevitable, and California is showing the way. So, you know, we we could study that issue. I think that's just as legitimate as as as anything else he's gonna study in this silly commission. Yeah. So, another interesting thing. Ohio has that, 6 week heartbeat bill, which is currently, you know, under an abandoned order. You know, it's it's it's not in effect. but, the South Carolina Supreme Court, last week upheld their 6 week heartbeat bill and that is, that was modeled on the Florida bill on the law in Florida, which is 6 weeks and Ohio, which was modeled on Florida's bill. So, we'll we'll have to see how this goes down. It's interesting to me that the Supreme Court tells the states that they can now regulate the topic of abortion, but yet courts in their legislative, mentality are blocking a lot of these laws. And, you know, it's
Steve Palmer [:it's gotta go. -- courts are blocking laws on what ground, though. So they, you know, the issue is gonna be under their state constitutions and this is where it should be. You know?
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:This this is where it should be. Right. It and and to me, it's it's critical Although it looks like Ohio is going the wrong way with this in a lot of states have tried. It's critical that this is a legislative issue, not a constitutional issue.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And I think And just so people --
Norm Murdock [:It ought to be.
Steve Palmer [:It ought to be. It
Norm Murdock [:ought to be.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And and and just so people understand why I think that it's like, look, The trimester system was sort of invented out of whole cloth at the supreme court level. You know, it wasn't even wasn't even argued below. It actually you know, some of that was just inserted into the decision because somebody knew somebody who knew somebody that was a doctor and said, this is a good way to do it. And it's those debates can only be had in open forums on the state house floor. where you can call witnesses to testify and offer policy considerations. Yeah. Offer practical input and facts and circumstances. And if you're somebody who is adamantly, in favor of abortion, you have a chance to go air it out in in open forums. If you're adamantly against it, you can air it out in open forums. If we wanna know what what a baby looks like at a certain age in a womb, then, you know, then that let let's sew pictures at the on the state house floor. If you think that that baby's not alive, prove it on the state house for. And then you know what else can happen? You can change. It can evolve with science. It can evolve with our knowledge. You're not locked into something that becomes arcane in 10 years because, you know, 15 years ago or 20 years ago, Look at look at your phone now. I mean, it's changed completely.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And if we would have said, you have a constitutional right to a phone, describe this way, in Ohio per our constitution 20 years ago, where would we be? I mean, it wouldn't look anything similar to that right now. It'd be totally different. And Well,
Norm Murdock [:to your point, Steve, that Having abortion, so abortion as an issue, on demand, abortion on demand, it is gonna be on an off year ballot this year.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Right? And so people who are passionate about that issue one way or the other are gonna be mainly the voters that go to the polls because there won't be Usually because of that issue.
Steve Palmer [:Right? Yes.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. And so the general Ohio population, if you will, won't be motivated won't be represented because there's not a president, senator, congressman, state representative to vote for. They're not gonna go to the polls in huge numbers that represents the full span of the population. Yep. And on the same ballot, is gonna be recreational marijuana. So we're gonna have
Steve Palmer [:2
Norm Murdock [:constitutional issues, that probably both will pass and it will be people who are zealous about those issues that drive that rather than the committee system. Yeah. This is -- -- debate system.
Steve Palmer [:The senate should be happening at the constitutional level in my home.
Norm Murdock [:That's unfortunate.
Steve Palmer [:You know? Recreational marijuana a constitutional amendment to allow it is is insanity to me. This is we have something, folks. It's called the Ohio revised code. We used to have the IO code. Now it's the Ohio revised code. cited typically is Ohio REV period code. or if you're in Ohio, you cited as r period c period with a section. We have the Ohio revised code. Go read it. There's a lot of stuff there, and there's plenty of room there to add to it. And there's plenty of ways you can take it apart, but it it all happens when our legislative branch of government in Ohio called in Ohio, the general assembly, they go and they have their little meetings and they vote. Yeah. And that somebody proposes a law And it's like the old schoolhouse rock, man. I'm just a bill. I'm sitting in here on Capitol Hill. It's not like I'm just a constitutional amendment. it's a bill.
Norm Murdock [:And those people are it can be held accountable.
Steve Palmer [:They can be how you get to vote for those people. You get to vote.
Norm Murdock [:toss them out if they if they voted on that bill in a way that you disagree, there's accountability, but on what we're gonna see with you know, we still have the 50 percent vote, passes, constitutional amendments in Ohio since issue 1 failed. but what we're gonna see is, you know, an abortion amendment that will probably pass this year and then the anti abortion will come up with their amendment.
Steve Palmer [:And they'll they'll pass in 5 years or whatever it is. Right?
Norm Murdock [:And and this thing's gonna seesaw back and forth. It shouldn't. should not.
Steve Palmer [:The the constitution was not intended for that purpose. It's gonna be the mini revised code. It might even swallow it up at some point because now that's Everybody's caught wise to it. And, you know, it it it it people just maybe maybe it's just a product of not stud studying government. You know, it's like, look, the institution is supposed to be set fundamental foundational terms.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. The parameters
Steve Palmer [:of how we operate. It's like the it's like the rails on the bowling alley when your kid is young. They put up the rails. It's like you gotta operate within there.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And then there's so much play within those joints. that the general assembly can work with, and they just can't go beyond it. And then the Supreme Court would say, no. I'm sorry. This time you went beyond it.
Norm Murdock [:And your classic example is prohibition. So where where we -- A disaster. It's disaster. Where where the the the states, the citizens decided you know, to put a drug law, right, in the constitution of the United States.
Steve Palmer [:Abject failure.
Norm Murdock [:And and then they had to take it out because It it it just spawned all kinds of criminal activity. You know, there there was a bathtub gen that was killing people. It it -- And there and
Steve Palmer [:there wasn't a great, so Congress had the Volsted act. Right? And it it anyway, the whole thing is a disaster.
Norm Murdock [:A disaster.
Steve Palmer [:It now turns the governmental our our democratic structure on its
Norm Murdock [:ear. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [: , the the original issue: Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I think I think it's this is look. It it kicked it back to the states to do with it what they will.
Brett Johnson [:So I think it wasn't said it was set in motion. Correct?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Sort of.
Brett Johnson [:Good and bad. I I'm just saying I don't I don't absolutely correct. I don't agree. Dom Necessarily, it should be constitutional level. I don't necessarily I don't I I agree with that. It should be legislative. It should be law. but the it's set in motion, isn't it? And The point's
Steve Palmer [:a good one is that the US Supreme Court had no business telling the states how they dealt with it. And all they did was say, look, we grabbed this. We grabbed the reins of this horse in 19 72.
Brett Johnson [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. 72. 70 3. 70 3.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. the
Steve Palmer [:reins of this horse, and we never should have. We've been riding this bucking bronco now for all these years.
Norm Murdock [:It's not a federal issue.
Steve Palmer [:It's not our issue to have. If you're getting off this horse, go back and you deal with it on your stable states. Yeah. And the you the federal government has no business telling the states how to handle it. So I'm I'm not, to me, I am complaining about the idea that the states are trying to handle it -- Right. -- on a constitutional level. It's the same problem just smaller. So now what they're doing is what the federal government did. They made it a constitutional issue when it shouldn't have been. Now there are states are making a constitutional issue when it shouldn't be. And I I mean that on both sides. So if you're if you're pro abortion, you don't want a constitutional amendment to do it. Right? It's like and how does it they're they're it's own problems with that because it just seesaws around and you don't get to make your point again. You know, it's stuck. Yeah. if it's, you don't get to call witness to support your position. No. if it's a -- Yeah. -- if it's a legislative issue, everybody has to say so. And look, here here's part of the problem. Is that and this is this goes back to the road decision. -- it wasn't good enough for the abortion advocates to say we can get an abortion in New York or we can get an abortion where in California, wherever they were allowed to get abortion. That's not good enough. We want to mandate our our minority position on everybody constitutionally. Right. That has problems, folks, because that's not how our country is supposed to operate. And you don't mandate policy like that using the Constitution to do it. it it eventually, like, you you can lock the people in the cage, so to speak. Yeah. But they're gonna get out. is gonna cause a backlash, and that's what happened with Roe.
Norm Murdock [:We saw we saw this come up last week in the Republican presidential debate. Right? They brought up the topic of abortion and I'm scratching my head at home. Right? I'm watching this debate which Donald Trump skipped. but I'm watching the other, candidates all being asked about their position on abortion and I'm like, Oh my god. The Supreme Court took that away from federal it's not federal subject matter.
Steve Palmer [:Wow. What you and and our federal constitutional subject matter.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. what I'm saying.
Steve Palmer [:But it could be federal legislative cons matters. So their Congress could pass a law. The US Congress could pass a law.
Norm Murdock [:That's correct. They could. And and
Steve Palmer [:I think -- -- not to support 1. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. They could. It except for the fact that because it's not federal subject matter, I think the Supreme Court would just dobs the congressional legislation.
Steve Palmer [:No. I don't think so. I I think I think Congress has the authority under commerce clause. to pass a law on abortion.
Norm Murdock [:That's that's interesting. I don't think they do. My reading at Dobbs, and that's that's cool, Steve, that that'll be interesting to see because I'm sure it will be attempted. Schumer Pelosi have said that they wanna pass congressional legislation. And again, I I I You know, and I've heard the other side, my side say, well, wait a minute. The Supreme court said that's not federal jurisdiction. That is for the states to regulate.
Steve Palmer [:Well, they said it's not constitutional federal litig. So the question is
Norm Murdock [:is that
Steve Palmer [:a legislative issue or a judicial issue that what the US Supreme Court says, there is no constitutional right to an abortion period. It doesn't mean that there's a constitutional basis to a prohibit abortion. It just means there's no constitutional right to an abortion. So I I mean, it'll be interesting to see how the court grapples with it. Yeah. High Court, US Supreme Court grapples with it. If Congress passes a law one way or another on a board.
Norm Murdock [:And there were several dissenting or concurring, you know, separate opinions.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Because because the justices on the Supreme Court saw it different ways just like you and I are talking about.
Steve Palmer [:So I I've said it, and I I'll I have to admit I've not done done the legal research and read the articles and the scholar quote scholars on it on on where they come down on what congress's jurisdiction is to pass along. But I know this. Congress, the the congress's powers become almost plenary, meaning unlimited. As long as it impacts something to do with interstate commerce, then Congress can act. And, you know, there's been a couple limits on that since the new deal, but not many. and, you know, that Congress can pass that law, congress can regulate anything that has anything to do with interstate commerce. And the way that's defined is almost everything has something to do with interstate commerce.
Norm Murdock [:Right. on Unfortunately.
Brett Johnson [:Unfortunately. Correct. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:you know, we've we've bastardized the commerce clause to the point of almost limitless power for Congress.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. And sadly, we're putting, yeah, an unborn life's in the definition of commerce because they're going across state line. and money's being exchanged.
Steve Palmer [:You know, they would they would argue that, you know, if you, import, like, if you buy machinery or your medical equipment or you know, even pay, like, using the banks. I mean, they would find some way
Brett Johnson [:to reduce.
Norm Murdock [:Some nexus. Yeah. Yeah. Right. To suck you in that it's that it's interstate conflict.
Steve Palmer [:And worse yet. worshiped. And this I'll be done with my rant. I'll shut up. Worshiped.
Norm Murdock [:It's a great rant.
Steve Palmer [:Congress doesn't even do it anymore. Yeah. They just pass some omnibus spending bill delegating authority to some brown shirt administrative agency to deal with it. And then they get broad interpretation of what the hell those regulations mean, and they turn them into crimes. I mean, it's like It's insanity. Or if anybody's dug into a when you when your client has been charged with a crime and it's not even a statute, it's a regulation. And you're like, what the hell does that mean? Wow. And you're like, wait a minute. And wait a minute. That yesterday that ATF's per example, yesterday, that regulation meant this. And today, there it means this.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And you're thinking, what is going on? Yeah. Conners doesn't pass law anymore. Hunter's a -- -- spending bills. -- 100
Norm Murdock [: of: Steve Palmer [:right. No.
Norm Murdock [:It's just
Steve Palmer [:the regulation doesn't change how they interpret it does. And it's like a group of people like, on some committee. Right. And usually what it is is a guy like Biden saying, we wanna prosecute those things, make those things. You know? Oh,
Norm Murdock [:there are guys at gun shows that bought the the the the the stocks that allow bumps. There are guys that bought that kind of crappy gun shows, and it's in their garage. They forgot they don't even remember. They don't even have it because they didn't work that good. They were kinda junk. It was a boy. It was a gimmick And it's out in the garage. There's dust on it. And and now they're class 3 felons if they get rated. I mean, It's absurd.
Steve Palmer [:It's absurd. Yeah. So this is this is alright. That's my rant about what how we have twisted our governmental structure into fascism. if you think I'm wrong, go go research the origin to fascism.
Norm Murdock [:It's terrible, man. and then the last little bit of Ohio news, which is pretty much eating up our show, but I mean, this is big stuff. The mayors of the 3 c's, Columbus Cleveland, Cinci, all the mayors, all the police chiefs, since we're talking about guns, they are on this trope that the spike in crime and, you know, Columbus is is on track to to to have a really bad year, for example.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:And and there's this trope going around that because concealed carry an open carrier now illegal in its constitutional in Ohio that somehow that's driving. Oh, what about bullshit? thirteen year old to kill somebody
Steve Palmer [:over at ease. I
Norm Murdock [:mean, it's just I
Steve Palmer [:gotta tell you.
Norm Murdock [:What are they talking about?
Steve Palmer [:That's that's the most absurd statistical twisting of interpretation, ever. Right? I it's such patent obvious political b s.
Norm Murdock [:Because before constitutional carry, right, Columbus had its worst murder year ever before that legislation. Sure. It's actually downloading to do it the other.
Steve Palmer [:No. It one has nothing to do with the other. So like, then another Thomas soul quote. Right? Hardly ever is one outcome attributable to a single cause. Right? It's always multiple things, but here, I don't even think they're connected. I, like, Why? So you would have to ask, why is crime going up? Yeah. What are the possibilities? And let's do a study to test that. Yeah. So why is crime going up? So somebody's gonna postulize that, is that the right word? Hypothesize? Yeah. Postulate. Postulate or I've just made a word up. Yeah. Postulize. Well, somebody's gonna postulate that it's because of concealed carry in open carry.
Norm Murdock [:Con Con carry.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:So you're
Steve Palmer [:a lot of carry guns. Alright. So that's one possibility. Let's do a study to see, but you would, like so you could say, alright. The the rise in crime occurred at the same time of constitutional carry. And then you could conclude illogically that one is related to the other. Yeah. Or you could also say what else could cause a rise in crime.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Could it be the fact that we don't have as as many police on the street? Could it be that the police have been handcuffed by their own cities and they're not allowed to go out and patrol or could it be that the fear being handcuffed and punished by their own cities has has caused the police to sort of retreat and get their it later than they might have otherwise gotten there because they don't wanna be accused of any sort of misconduct as a result of enforcing crime. Yeah. Could it be that, During COVID, the city commissioners basically said don't go don't enforce crime. you know, there there's a 100 reasons why. Not all those are It might be simply that we don't have a budget anymore. It might be that, because pea because of COVID, more people are out of work because they're getting paid to be out of work and not go to work, know, anything else to do except go screw around in the streets and get in fights. I mean, there's all sorts of other reasons you could do. And and usually what happens when politicians get involved in this is they ignore the ones that that were the responsibility might point back at them. Yeah. Right. So they're they're not gonna say yes to any of those things. because they're the jackasses that created it. 100%.
Norm Murdock [:And then they're
Steve Palmer [:do you know what they're gonna say? And then again, I'm stealing from Thomas Soul. It's not It's not that it was their bad policy. They just didn't they weren't allowed to do enough.
Norm Murdock [:That's it.
Steve Palmer [:They have to do more. Give us more money, more power, and we'll fix it this time. I promise.
Norm Murdock [:Right. like school funding. We we don't pay the teachers enough. We're not we're not dumping enough money into, asbestos abatement or I mean, whatever the topic is with more more money for the schools.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:And and, you know, the classic is the the kids in Iowa. where the per pupil spending is the lowest have have some of the highest scores on the SATs vis a vis the kids who where the per per pupil spending is treble or a quadruple.
Steve Palmer [:You can't outspend bad behavior?
Norm Murdock [:No. You can't.
Steve Palmer [:Right. You can't do that.
Norm Murdock [:At the end of the day, your mom has to or and then your father it there's you should be farther in the house. That's another issue, but they have to compel the student to sit their butt down, get off the TV or the Internet and do your dang homework. And and and there's no law that there's no -- You
Steve Palmer [:can't pass along.
Norm Murdock [:There's no government power. short of big brother to make that happen.
Steve Palmer [:-- do is de incentivize it. And that's what that's what our government has done. the federal government did it. Anybody just go research it, you'll see. It's like check when all the all the, single parent households the statistics on that really took off, and it corresponds very early with the --
Norm Murdock [:Grates aside.
Steve Palmer [:-- with the Grates aside. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:So, you know, one more step off of that. It was just do doing a real at Google search, but DeWine is offering state assistance to Cleveland, to Columbus to Cincinnati to help out with this. What does that mean?
Steve Palmer [:What does that mean? State assistance?
Brett Johnson [:There's there's
Steve Palmer [:a city? Yeah. Look. Higher damn cops. One thing is. we'll stop the grass.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I mean, there's no definition to what it really is. I I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:One one thing he did. Now there's probably money too, but
Steve Palmer [:--
Brett Johnson [:I'm sure.
Steve Palmer [:--
Norm Murdock [:one thing he did that then we didn't talk about this because it's kind of a, I know, a brotherhood fight within the police agencies, but, the wine authorized the state patrol to play a supporting role in the in in the big cities.
Steve Palmer [:Okay.
Brett Johnson [:I mean,
Norm Murdock [:and that's unprecedented. Yeah. That that that -- Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:That's bad news. That that that's gonna be wrought with its own problems. You're gonna create a state police force. Yeah. And, you know, I remember that -- And
Brett Johnson [:they're busy enough already. Look. The high school Those dudes dudes dudes are exactly. Control highways. And and they then they do it and they do it well. They do it well. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know, that's their job.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And I remember my buddy, my very close high school friends, they have his Columbus police officer. And, when I I don't remember what age I sort of figured out that the highway patrol, what their role was, and what the local cops role was. And at some point, we probably talking to his dad, he used to say, yeah. Oh, yeah. Let him let him come in and call us and do some real police work once or twice. See what it's all about. All they do is run around, catch speeders and drunk drivers. And, you know, Looking, I remember laughing at it at the time and sort of whatever point he was trying to make he made, but it sounded like a little bit of professional rivalry. Yeah. Right. Exactly. His point was his point's not a bad one.
Norm Murdock [:No. In the sheriff's field just like him too.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. You
Norm Murdock [:know, in in where I grew up in Hamilton County, the Hamley County Sheriff had a policy in place that the state patrol was not welcome even on the interstates. That's right. in that county.
Steve Palmer [:There's a reason for this. And it a lot of it has to do with the idea of of, federalism. So who is gonna be best apt to monitor the local crime? It's gonna be the local police. They're gonna know about Bob over there and what he's all about. And they're gonna know about Jimmy, and they're gonna know about the local feud between these 2 families or the who the drug dealers are. Right. Or where, you know, it it's and it's not gonna be some
Norm Murdock [:whose dump trucks were not well maintained.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:So you gotta watch this particular company. The local sheriffs know. Yeah. They know. That company puts out that.
Steve Palmer [:without their own corruption. sure. So that that breeds some corruption. So you gotta you gotta monitor that, and that's where the state role is to come in and take care of it when there's corruption. And that I I do agree with some state authority on that. when the locals get out of control, somebody's gotta police the locals, but the locals are better equipped to deal with it. So when you go to Upper Arlington or actually, I'll take it back to Sunbury when I was a kid. We had metler. You know, everybody's afraid of metler. He was the cop, you know, the local cable. He was it. But you know what he did? He kept us all online a little bit. Nobody really got in bad trouble, but all boy mettlers out. You can't do you know what that meant that meant we stayed safe. And a key knew -- Yeah. -- he knew when something was really bad, and he he dealt with it. He knew when it was, and he dealt with it. and, the local cops understood the village of Sunbury Police understood. Were they great cops here? I don't know, but they knew who they were dealing with.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. They knew which ballpark you were likely drinking behind the -- Yes. -- refreshment stand at 2 in the morning.
Steve Palmer [:-- go to jail, and you and you deserve to ride home. Yeah. and and -- And
Brett Johnson [:let mom and dad take care
Steve Palmer [:of it. -- because they knew your mom and dad and they knew they would take care of it. And, you know, it's this if you bring in a a high and tight, steady, You're not gonna know that. Everybody's going to jail. Right. And and maybe not everybody should.
Norm Murdock [:Like god sorted out. Yeah. The the our township police, I'll never forget they, their policy was to take your, underage beer and you had to pour it over yourself and go ring the front doorbell. You were not allowed to sneak in the house using your key and
Brett Johnson [:right. because, you know, I'll
Steve Palmer [:I'll just that's where he's taking
Norm Murdock [:a quick shot. He would wait in the cruiser while you push the button and mom or dad comes to the door. And you're stinking of beer.
Steve Palmer [:So then it this just this just gave me another thought. You know, we're supposed to be stuck a little bit of time. Just give me another thought. It's like if you have my point I was just making, like, when the local police become corrupt, Somebody's gotta investigate him. And that would maybe be the the county or the city or whoever. Yeah. And then somebody's gotta investigate the county when they get corrupt. the 8 g. -- would be the state 8 g. Yeah. Well, what happens when the state gets corrupt? So if you give the state all the power to investigate crime across the state, like, plenary power. Yeah. What's gonna stop their local corruption? Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And we're seeing at the federal level. Who investigates who investigates Merrick Garland. Right.
Steve Palmer [:They're they don't answer to anybody. They should be the force that you can trust. And instead, you're gonna give them the opium of corruption. You're gonna let them participate in the local corrupt activity. And, you you know, at first, it'll work. You know, well, we've had success and they've ever made all these arrests and life is great.
Norm Murdock [:It looks good on paper.
Steve Palmer [:It looks good on paper, but where does it go? Cause, you know, anybody, go read lord Acton's quotes for a while. It's like power corrupts and absolute power corrupt absolutely power corrupts absolutely. He's got 100 more that are, you know, dozens more. They're just as pointed. Like, they're you're gonna give the state authorities that much power and centralize it into wine.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. because that that that gentleman's not been great in omni power right there.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. That's with check
Steve Palmer [:on that.
Norm Murdock [:And with COVID swinging back, there's 5 hospitals now that you where you have to mask up nationally, and there it'll be more. And there's colleges and universities. We talked about Was it George Morrison? no Morris Brown College in, in Atlanta. As an example, there there are several colleges and dorms now They're gonna do the vaccine, the tracing, the masking.
Steve Palmer [:Didn't Biden come out and say the vaxx. Everybody get vaxxed and the vaccines work. They don't.
Norm Murdock [:And our governor here in Ohio was big time on this. He shut down restaurants that, I mean, little little mom and pop. He shut down lives. I mean, the the this little Greek place over on Cleveland Avenue that makes great, you know, it the Greek food. they could not afford to redesign their interior. It's a very small restaurant. They couldn't put up the the sneeze shields and all this stuff, and they did just didn't have the room to do it. So they became a takeout only place, and they went from, like, 12 employees to
Steve Palmer [:2.
Norm Murdock [:Yep. Right. And lost all that revenue. Meanwhile, McDonald's is open.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, sure. Home Depot's open. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's a fascinating that, you know, how the wine rolled out all of this egregious policy. And and if he and he's been reelected, he gets to do it again.
Steve Palmer [:Oh my gosh.
Norm Murdock [:With this new virus, this new coven spirit.
Steve Palmer [:-- broke my steering wheel. He was waiting outside my son's music lesson when I heard his, like, Jared just we're gonna watch the man in the sky on the TV, you know, give us, like, weekly fireside.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, god. Oh, god.
Steve Palmer [:And, he said, we have the tools. Oh, we know we've got the tools. We've done it before, and we'll do it again. And I almost broke my steering while I was screaming at the radio. It's like you didn't do an effing thing. You mother effort. I mean, it's what what's this? We did it because as I understand it, you got your fucking paycheck. Yeah. And I didn't. He
Norm Murdock [:wasn't right, Mayor.
Steve Palmer [:Right? It's like, I was so pissed off. I was like, do you mean we did it? You didn't do shit.
Norm Murdock [:He was, like, the only Republican governor.
Steve Palmer [:-- bleep that out later.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. He was, like, the well, I mean, the a passion is raw. because it it did ruin people. The the the he was like the only Republican governor that that Biden was nationally like commending. And and it's because he was like the opposite of DeSantis or governor Nome or these other governors in other states. that were like, no. I'm we're not doing all that stuff.
Steve Palmer [:No. The biden or, Duane was a test case. Like, he like, there's there's emails going back and forth with --
Norm Murdock [:Oh, he was on board, man.
Steve Palmer [:We're gonna use DeWine because he's a Republican, but he's on board with us. So we're gonna test all this bullshit with him.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And then he he did it hook line and sinker. and and and we bought into it and and enforced it and took so much power. And it's like all this, Amy act. Remember this BS? Yeah. It's like people have
Norm Murdock [:forgotten, and I hope I hope that they I hope this all comes back to them next year when we have a national election.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, it's
Norm Murdock [:I mean, I I hope people remember.
Steve Palmer [:People for
Norm Murdock [:it's like they forgot 911. They they don't even remember the terrorist attacks.
Steve Palmer [:and people don't understand how devastating that was unless you lost everything.
Norm Murdock [:Alright.
Steve Palmer [:People don't get it. So you can complain that you had to Take your laptop home while your kids were there bugging you on your granite countertop in your kitchen as you were zooming in for your meetings and still making a $150 a year But what about the Greek restaurant folks who all of a sudden, it's not that they weren't making their money. It's like they couldn't pay their bills. And then the people that they had to lay off couldn't get -- Yeah. -- their their bills paid.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, there was, like, huge consequences and then we didn't act like it didn't happen.
Norm Murdock [:And then we PPP these businesses, Right? Where did that money come from? Where did
Steve Palmer [:it come from?
Norm Murdock [:It's coming from unborn.
Steve Palmer [:The primary people you're taking it from. Generations
Norm Murdock [:of kids that aren't even born yet will be paying. I mean, it's we're at
Steve Palmer [:33,000,000,000. Yeah. It is, it is complete insanity. you know, and and I was one of those business So I get it and watching that jackass say, we have the tools. I I would try. I I, like, if he were in front of me, he would've gotten his ass kicked at that time.
Norm Murdock [:Absolutely. Yeah. It was terrible. You know, nationally, also, there's this thing where nurses, who were and I'm sure there were some doctors as well, but nurses in particular which are there's a tremendous need for nurses and many nurses said, no. I'm not getting vaxxed. I I know enough about medicine as a professional nurse. I know enough about what the steps are to approve a drug and these drugs were experimental. They had not gone through all of the stages that a drug has to traditionally go through to get FDA approval. They were rushed out.
Steve Palmer [:They were rushed out.
Norm Murdock [:And and nurses said, hey. many of the nurses said, hey, I know better. I am choosing for myself, my own health. I'm not it's my body. Right? You know, Democrats like that line. It's my body. Well, not when it comes to vaxxers, I guess. And they decided many nurses not to get vaxxed. They got fired The same places in Boston, Baltimore, the New England States. And these are the nurses that were there on the front lines when -- Right.
Steve Palmer [:-- allegedly, everybody was gonna die of this thing.
Norm Murdock [:Right. They got fired. Now they're begging the same nurses to come back.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Middle finger. Right?
Norm Murdock [:I mean, those
Steve Palmer [:like I work at McDonald's now.
Norm Murdock [:Those ladies retired or whatever they did, men and ladies, and and it it yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, it's probably time to wrap it up. Norma got any nuggets, little final nuggets. And by the way, the Norm's Nugget sponsorship is open. I think I've got somebody on the hook for it, but if you wanna sponsor Norm's nuggets, Give us a shout. You can still look us up at, common senseioshow.com. We can sponsor norms nuggets. And why would you sponsor? Well, I'll tell you why because we are spreading. common sense is, contagious folks. Just like COVID, it's contagious. People are dying for it. people need it. People you need this in your life.
Norm Murdock [:People need to know the facts and and we don't, you know, we don't
Brett Johnson [:Another reason why you'd wanna sponsor Norman's nuggets because spot would have been right there.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. You I would have talked about you instead of us.
Brett Johnson [:Right. Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:I might have even, you know, made up a song about you. There you go. So let's so let me bang through these. the Chinese Communist Party has had a lab that successfully generated human embryos from stem cells, first first in, you you know, in in human history. So they're making literally gonna be making they can make human embryos in a petri dish.
Steve Palmer [:It's always a clone wars.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. So, I think the commercial applications will probably first be things like Oregon harvesting, which, you know, the Frankenstein mental picture I have is not good. we'll see if that's like artificial intelligence. Right? We don't know where this is all gonna end up. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It's got potential for great good and great bad at the same time.
Norm Murdock [:And horror. Right. Damn. White House has been caught altering images of Joe Biden using AI. they're they're that they've done side by.
Steve Palmer [:I've seen it.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. They've done side by sides. And, like, they're taking away his wrinkles and adding this and that and the
Brett Johnson [:other thing. Oh my god.
Norm Murdock [:You know, make him look younger. So, federal unions are fighting posts.
Steve Palmer [:This is a crap. I get it. Yeah. Go ahead. Isn't that crap that you would expect out of, like, the Nazis or, like, Stalin.
Brett Johnson [:Russians. Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:It's like
Norm Murdock [:it re it remember Barbara Walters, they used to have that gauzy screen in front of her when she was doing when she was doing her show. It's gone.
Brett Johnson [:They just put Vaseline on on the lens of the of everybody. All news people that come in yet but Vaseline on your cameras when you shoot at President Biden.
Steve Palmer [:That's beautiful.
Norm Murdock [:Is that how they did the burger wall?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. You know, in in the old days, you softened the screen by putting Vaseline on that lens. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:I love
Brett Johnson [:it. Before, you know, back in the forties, fifties, whatever.
Norm Murdock [:So there's one more use for Vas Celine. Yeah. we won't get into that. Yeah. federal unions are fighting post COVID returns to in office work. they they wanna stay at home, and the EPA, workers union is leading that little fight against Biden, which is kinda funny. the White House has denied secret service protection. This this was a couple week old story, but We were talking about RfK Junior and it blows me away that his father and his uncle were both assassinated and I how could they not extend secret service protection to Rfk Junior who has officially requested it is beyond me? It's just like I'm I'm stunned that what would that cost this country, you know, considering that all the money we waste to give the Kennedy Candidate protection because somebody is out there, you know, contemplating and and I don't want that to happen. Nobody does. I'm sure Biden doesn't. So why not give him protection? It's ridiculous. NASCAR has a diversity program that excludes everybody who is white, whatever white means. So only girls and people with brown or black skin can participate kinda sounds like that progressive insurance case we talked about last week.
Steve Palmer [:Yep.
Norm Murdock [:I don't even know what white means. Again, there's Obama white or black. He's half of each. So, you know, I mean, it's why any company would focus on what people's immutable characteristics are is quite beyond. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:We're gonna walk around certain. There'll be, like, little blood prick tests or they'll they'll develop something. So, oh, I'm sorry. You're 20% this. So you did this.
Norm Murdock [:It blows me away. There's a
Steve Palmer [: with, yeah. Back in the early: Norm Murdock [:And we kinda had that movie during World War 2. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:speaking of RFK, this was
Norm Murdock [:a mind blowing statistic and I don't know if it's true, but it's news because it came out of his mouth. He was on Tucker's Twitter show and said that 70% of National Wealth in America is owned by Democrats, if you just take Democrats and Republicans, 70% is owned by Democrats only 30 by Republicans So his point is the true elitist now are people in his own party. And I mean, if that stat is true. That is unbelievable, but that came out of his mouth.
Brett Johnson [:Well, as we said, every stack can be twisted the way you want it to to be. Exactly. Yeah. It would be interesting to know.
Norm Murdock [:But he's a shot at his own party. Right.
Brett Johnson [:It's interesting.
Norm Murdock [: s has revealed that they have: Steve Palmer [:-- More to come on that one.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. More to come on that. That's what I got, guys.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, great. folks, We appreciate you tuning in. We just ask a couple of things. Keep listening. First of all, secondly, like download share, do whatever you're supposed to do with these kind of things. I'm no marketing genius, but I know that when something's good, you wanna tell your neighbors about it, tell your friends about it, tell your enemies about it, if you hate whatever you're gonna do to spread the word, it helps us. We're not doing this for money. We're doing this because we do believe. I mean, I and I'm not trying to just play, like, the the battle hymn of the republic in the background. I'm saying is we actually do this because we believe in in the idea of podcasting podcasting the truth, at least a discussion about what we hope we learn to be the truth. even if we're wrong, we invite other opinions and invite discussion. we have fought. We have agreed. We have laughed. We have even cried a bit here when, when we disagree on and off the air. So, disagreement is good. Yeah. Good. I'm saying that again, disagreement is good because at the end of that adversity, you find the truth. so this is common sense, Ohio coming at you right from the middle, at least until now.
