In this inspiring episode, Joe Fier welcomes Dr. J.J. Peterson back for his second appearance on the show. They dive deep into the idea of "owning your traits" as a leader, and how authenticity fuels both personal growth and impact. Drawing from Dr. J.J. Peterson’s colorful journey—from improv comedy to marketing, academia, and launching the Badass Softy podcast—the conversation explores what it means to lead with both drive and compassion. Listeners will find powerful frameworks for understanding personal narratives, navigating leadership roles, and embracing joy as a daily practice.

Topics Discussed

1. Dr. J.J. Peterson’s Unique Career Path: From improv comedy and Hollywood to pastoral work, academia, and marketing.
2. The Power of Narrative in Leadership: Understanding the four character types—hero, victim, villain, and guide—and how they shape our leadership style.
3. Leadership Vulnerability & Authenticity: Why leading with heart and self-awareness is crucial, and how unresolved trauma can impact workplace dynamics.
4. Badass Softie Philosophy: What it truly means to be unapologetically driven while leading with empathy.
5. Self-Reflection for Leaders: Developing your own point of view and values rather than mimicking others.
6. Empathy and Authority: Balancing care and challenge in teams to build trust and sustained momentum.
7. Practical Joy in Work: Incorporating joy and play as strategic tools for productivity and emotional resilience.
8. Grace in Personal Growth: The importance of forgiving yourself during transitions and embracing the leadership journey as ongoing.
9. Upcoming Projects: Dr. J.J. Peterson’s plans for mastermind communities, modeled on the playful pub walks of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis.

Resources Mentioned:

1. Badass Softie Podcast
2. Conscious Brand Agency
3. StoryBrand

Love what you heard? Don’t miss future episodes—subscribe to Hustle & Flowchart wherever you get your podcasts! If this conversation resonates, share it with a fellow leader or entrepreneur who could use a little more joy and authenticity in their journey. Let’s grow together—dream bigger, lead with heart, and become badass softies!

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you ever feel like you're shutting down the most human parts of

yourself just to fit into a mold?

Maybe it's as a leader in your business or putting content out

there, or just connecting with people in general and you've never really

paused enough to understand what are your traits, like, how do you

really wanna show up as that person?

So I have Dr. JJ Peterson back on the podcast for the second time.

He has a wild background.

He'll break down and he'll.

Talk about how doing that has held him back in the past and how when you start

to own these traits, it's the key to what he calls becoming a true badass softie.

I think you're gonna enjoy this one.

Let's dive in.

JJ, we are back for round two.

Man.

It's, uh, it's an honor to have you back and we had a blast last time.

Your episode also was really engaged.

Like I had a lot of people reaching out to me about it.

Simple marketing and messaging frameworks, everything, all the StoryBrand stuff and

things we've done for what, a decade plus.

A ton of different Hollywood, even all these corporations ass a

professor as well, Dean, I believe.

Right.

So you got a crazy background, man.

Yeah, it's kind of been, it's uh, I've lived a wild life in some really fun ways.

Yeah.

It's like, and what's funny is, until I do what I do now, it felt

like it was all over the place.

'cause I actually like at right outta college, I did marketing and

PR communications, and then I spent a little bit of time in Hollywood.

Doing screenwriting and then acting.

And then I also spent time doing comedy.

And then I was a professor.

I was also a pastor for a while.

Missionary lived in Mexico and like all these things.

And then marketing consultant and it all kind of felt like it was

all in these different spheres.

But once I started actually like helping people clarify their message

and communicate more clearly.

With a very specific story framework.

It all kind of came together.

So it was kind of wild and, and, and you would've thought before I

was all over the place, but it all made sense about 10 years later,

That's like, that's life in a nutshell, right there, man.

It's like a mixing pot of something and we're just brewing

right until something clicks.

You mentioned comedy and that just stuck out to me.

Like what, what type of comedy was it?

Like improv or like, I don't know.

I'm just curious

It was, it was improv.

So we were, I was in a group called 3 2, 1 Improv, and

Nice.

We toured around the country and, uh, did clean comedy.

And so we did a lot of stuff, which is, it's kind of interesting.

So I, I'm in this a little bit of a transition in my career right now.

I've, I, I was working for StoryBrand for a long time,

still am with StoryBrand still.

Uh, my title there is professor in residence, so still work in StoryBrand,

but I've started kind of branching out.

And doing, uh, some more messaging, helping thought leaders kind of

create messaging and products based on their, you know, like create

courses and certification based on their thought leadership and that

involves marketing and all this stuff.

So there's kind of a lot in that space.

But what I, as part of that, I've launched a new podcast called Badass

Softie, and it's really, it's for leaders who are unapologetically

driven, but lead with their heart.

And the, the reason I bring that up is not to just kind of, uh, you

know, pitch something right here.

It actually has to do with the question you asked about comedy.

Yeah, I.

Yeah.

Well, so I, I'll explain.

So I, for a couple years, my comedy career kind of started.

I went to this comedy club and saw these people on stage and they had you sign

up for, uh, like a, get a free ticket for your birthday on their email list.

And so I did, and a couple weeks later they sent out this thing

that said we're, for the first time ever, we're holding open auditions.

And I was like.

I just wanna try this.

It was more like a, just stepping outta my comfort zone.

And a bunch of people auditioned and I made the main stage, which

they didn't do at that time.

If you've ever been in comedy clubs, you have to work your way

up through the different systems.

And I actually auditioned, put right on the main stage, and that was

kind of my start with comedy career.

That was.

And yeah, I'd never, I mean, I grew up, you know, being kind of a theater

kid, but nothing like official.

And hadn't been done anything in Hollywood yet at this point.

No.

Acting.

I just like, I'm gonna try it.

Did it, made it and started performing on the main stage at

comedy sports, um, in San Diego.

And so started doing that for a while.

And then, um, some friends of mine who had a group, um, that it was called

CPR at the time, uh, reached out to me and said, we're doing some changeups.

We'd love for you to join.

Our group and tour full-time, and this was a few years later.

And, and so that's kind of how that progression happened.

And when you're doing comedy, you know, you travel around and what a lot

of people don't understand is if you.

At the level that we were at, if you're doing comedy clubs, you're losing money

because you basically, like you get paid, like you do a full weekend at

a club if you're an opener middle act and you're getting paid like maybe 200

to 500 bucks and then, but you're also paying your own transportation, your own

food in your own hotel for that weekend.

So if we're going to Omaha, we're losing money if we're playing clubs only, and

that's every comedian that's out there.

Yeah.

Oh exactly.

So if just like everybody have some compassion, if you go to a comedy club

and they're like, 'cause the people who are openers in middle acts, they're

losing money by being there really?

And so on.

So what you do to supplement that is you either have another job

or you do like private events.

And conferences or corporate kind of things.

So that's really what we did most of the time.

It was traveling around and doing, you know, the Christmas party for the farm

that provides eggs for McDonald's.

Like, that was a real show We did.

Or you know, this?

Yeah.

Or this like nonprofit that, uh, supports adoption from kids from Ukraine.

Like those kind of things, you know, we do.

Or just like this, the latest music conference or youth camp or whatever.

So I did that for about four years, and you get into it for

a while and it's, it was so fun.

I loved it so much.

Um, but also you're on the road all the time.

You're exhausted.

You know, you finish shows at like 10, 11, 12 at night.

Then everybody wants to go out for pizza afterwards.

So you're getting to bed at like two, and then you're getting up at four to

catch the next flight to the next town.

So that's just kind of like every day.

So it was.

So that's,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Flying or renting a van and driving around with two other stinky dudes for a, a few

months, you know, and it was obviously one of the funniest things I ever did, and

also one of the hardest things I ever did.

And, um, I remember when I was in, I, I, I was probably about three years

into it and I'm like, this is not.

You can't have relationship doing this.

Like, I'm not dating anybody.

Like I'm never gonna own a home.

I'm just, I'm gonna be sick and I've gained a bunch of weight.

And so I was like, this isn't sustainable.

Love it.

Not sustainable.

And I remember talking to my friend, I actually remember where I was.

We were in Washington DC and we were just like walking down these

railroad tracks and he was asking me, I was feeling this kind of what

I would call holy dissatisfaction.

Like, I'm like, I'm, something is moving in me to say like, yeah,

it's time for something different.

And, um.

And he said, you know, what do you think that is?

And I said, you know, the thing that actually bothers me the most when I'm on

the road is I go to these conferences and these corporate events and I see all of

these leaders who are up there and they are like strong on stage, they're funny

on stage, they're leading their teams.

And then I'd watch the way their teams actually were around them.

A lot of these leaders were leaving behind a wake of destruction and trauma.

Oh man.

you know, you'd, they'd be on stage and even if it was, say, a religious

environment, they were up on stage kind of like preaching and loving,

and then they'd get off stage and they would just treat people like crap.

Or they were like in the corporate event.

And then I'd realize.

People around them were like terrified of them.

Like they just couldn't even like function or make decisions without them.

'cause you get to hang out with people before and after the show and

they wanna be with the funny guys.

So you get to kind of see around the, around the bend of a lot of these places.

Now, obviously, um, also amazing people that were unbelievable leaders and you

know, like I learned a lot from that.

But I remember telling my friend, I said.

I'm tired of leaders who get into positions of power and then just

create paths of destruction as they go.

And I said, I wanna go back to school and be a part of raising

up the next generation of leaders who are gonna be different.

And that actually was what shifted my path away from entertainment and

Hollywood in comedy to go back and get my master's degree and eventually my PhD

and start teaching in higher education.

And that's, uh, so I as a professor for a little bit and then moved into Dean

of Students where I actually got to work with student leaders, so the RAs

and student council, and all the people who kind of were running the kids,

students who were running the schools and

like the

the future leaders and saying like, I just want to kind of show them a different

way of what leadership looks like.

And you know, that was now.

20 years ago that I did that move and then, you know, I've had a couple

different careers since then, but it's always kind of been a passion of mine

to really ideally forge a new way of leading that doesn't look like a lot of

the options that are out there right now.

And that kind of is what ultimately even led me to what

I'm doing with Badass Softie.

It sounds like it, like it connects perfectly with Badass

Softy 20 years in the making.

I mean, that's,

exactly.

I mean, yeah, I can relate.

I mean, I haven't done comedy, but, you know, um, I've been in bands.

It kind of sounds similar to improv.

We didn't go crazy on the tours, but I did a couple, so some tours around

and yeah, I, I know what you mean.

Um, but it's interesting, like what you say, like in business, I've seen

it, you know, when you see people on stage and as you get to know people.

Sometimes they have a whole different personality when they walk off that

stage, or you know, if they're presenting themselves even on a podcast or whatever

marketing they're doing, but you meet 'em in person and it just might be a whole

different face that you're encountering.

Not always, and, and most of 'em, I would say not, but there is that

perception, right, of like this, I, I, I don't know what it is.

I guess like how would you define it?

Because I wanna get to badass softy, but

Yeah.

You know, I think, so here's going back to some of the narrative stuff, right?

So my PhD is in narrative, like I help companies with marketing,

and when you look at story.

There really are, uh, four different types of characters in every story.

And the reason those exist in story is 'cause they exist in us.

So the four types are hero, villain, victim and guide.

Those four, like those are the main kind of characters, character

types we see show up in movies.

Stories.

So it there often is.

So just to define those a little bit, a victim is somebody who, something happens

to them that's outside of their control.

Now, they may have caused part of it themselves, but something happened to

them that is outside of their control Now.

When that happens, if the person just stays a victim and plays the victim in

the story the whole time, there will not be a good story written about a victim.

It's just not.

Stories are not about victims.

They exist in the story to make the villain look bad and the hero look good.

Then what happens is if the, the victim actually to make the story

go move forward, is the victim has to want to move forward.

They get come to a crossroads where they get to decide if they're going

to become a villain or a hero.

Villains will revenge the pain that was caused on them as victims

and heroes work to redeem it.

So you will often see in movies, the hero in the villain have these kind

of backstory of pain that are similar.

Like you'll even see the, the villain have a scar on their face to show like

they went through some crap, right?

You just kind of know that,

joker and

Batman, right?

Like got.

joker and Batman.

Same.

You know, there's abandonment issues or like, you'll see, you know, like a movie

where one hero's, the hero's daughter got killed in an accident, but so did the

villain's daughter, like, you know, and then this, the villain tries to revenge

the pain and the hero tries to redeem it.

And the hero ultimately kind of continues to move forward to redeem that pain.

They overcome what they went through.

The villain sadly, usually is destroyed, right?

The villain looks bad, isn't a good person, gets destroyed.

Everybody hates the villain.

Everybody loves the hero.

Then if the hero, let's say we go into a sequel, the hero then will often

transform into kind of the highest level of character, which is called a guide.

The guide is really the strongest character in the story.

The story is not about the guide, but the guide exists to help the hero win.

The guide in stories is like Yoda, so Luke Skywalker's the hero.

Obi one, Kenobi and Yoda are the guides.

You know, Frodo is the, uh, hero.

Gandalf is the guide.

You can see it in everything.

You know.

Aslan's a Guide, Dumbledore's A Guide.

Hamit in Hunger Games is a guide.

They are actually, for the purpose of that story, the

strongest character in the story.

So.

Now, let me go back and actually answer your initial question

about where does this come from.

I feel like what happens is, one, a lot of people who are leaders,

they hard things happen when you put yourself in positions of leadership.

It just does.

And making your way too, becoming a leader.

I think for many of them, they get stuck in a victim mentality.

They all, they.

And when you're a victim in those situations, all you're doing really

is making people feel sorry for you.

The heroes kind of feel sorry for you to rescue you or the

villains like are mean to you.

That's all.

You exist to be the foil for other people.

So you begin to act out of that pain.

And then I think what happens is.

In order to overcome that pain, a lot of them become villains.

They like have to like they were pushed down, they were hurt.

They have insecurities of a as from their childhood or from previous

work experiences, and now they have to prove they're stronger than that.

And the way that they do that is by actually acting out on that pain

and causing more pain For others, the good leaders are the ones who

have experienced it and moved.

Forward overcoming it by being their own hero and then ultimately the guide.

So I think where a lot of that comes, this is like a, a lot of the grace,

I used to be incredibly judgmental about the people who did those things

and be like those assholes, like, you know, it's like how could they do this?

But what I've come to learn is that most of those actions come

out of an unresolved trauma.

Not to get too, you know, therapeutic, but come out of an unresolved trauma

that either they're still in or they're actually now acting out of.

They're causing more pain because of that pain.

And I think that's when people get into trouble in leadership spaces.

That makes perfect sense.

And I've talked a lot about self-development trauma on, on

this show, so happy to go there.

Good.

Um, yeah, absolutely.

But it makes perfect sense because it seems like as a

victim, and of course there's true victims and trauma that happen

Hundred percent yes.

Don't want to discount that one bit.

No, no.

no.

but it is easy, I feel like, to kind of stay in that mentality,

right, that victim mentality.

Because Yeah, you kind of feel like you're alone in it, even though we all

deal with it with our own form, you know, like as we're going through life.

But I'm imagining, and, and this is where maybe badass softie kind of

comes in, is you're looking at the, the people that, the, the big names, let's

say like in business, the ones that are popular, they have popular shows.

They have, uh, they're on stages.

They're commanding respect or attention, and maybe there is kind

of like a label put on them or like, oh, I need to emulate that.

But they haven't quite worked through their own stuff.

Right.

Yes, exactly.

That's a huge piece of it in my opinion, is they, they look at other

people, which, and, and I'll say this, I, I wouldn't even say they,

I, I often looked to other people.

And I said, oh, I need to be more aggressive like that.

Or even in some ways, I need to be more soft like that.

You know?

And, and I have learned, this is the thing about with badass softie

for me, is I have learned so much from both types of leaders, people

who are just like driven and badass.

And if it caused me to lead and dream bigger than I ever thought I could.

Um, I remember Donald Miller when I first came and worked with Donald Miller,

um, at StoryBrand, who was a, you know.

New York Times bestselling author had influenced, you know, a ton, a

generation of people with his books and, you know, had spoke into some of

the biggest companies in the world.

So I come and I start working with him and one of the things he asked

me when we first started working was, um, so what's your big dream?

Like, what would life look like for you?

And I remember telling him.

You know, I like, I, I really wanna own a home.

I wanna be able to take like a month off in the summer and maybe do a movie.

Um, I'd love to be able to teach at a university again and just be

able to have enough money to travel.

And he goes.

You're gonna do that?

I want to be president.

That's my big dream.

What's your big dream?

And he doesn't really wanna be president, but that was what he was putting out

there as like, no, no, no, we're not.

He's like, you're gonna own a home.

You're gonna make good money.

You're gonna do this.

It's not what we're talking about.

I want you to dream bigger because.

I want your influence and your impact to be bigger.

Not just that I would have a bigger home or own a boat or something, but

that like my influence needed to be broader than just like the little

pond that I was pretending to play in.

And so he pushed me to like dream big and be more aggressive,

but I'm also not Donald Miller.

And if I try to model my life after his and my leadership after his, I'm going to

fail because we don't have the same gifts.

We don't have the same why.

We don't have the same values.

Um, and so.

The first thing, like what I, when people always ask me, you know, like, so

what does it truly mean to be a badass?

Softie is some of this stuff that we're talking about.

The first thing I think you wanna do as a leader is develop your own point of view.

You can

borrow from other people.

You can even steal from other people, but you have to come at it.

And, and this res requires a lot of self-awareness of like, who am I and what

are my values and why am I doing this?

Because for somebody else, becoming a billionaire may really work

for them and for you it may not.

Right?

Like, so just saying like, oh, I can look at a, and I don't even mean this in a

derogatory run, but I, I, I can look at the crypto bros and say, that's not me.

I've learned a ton from Crypto Bros. I am not a crypto bro, and if

I try to build my life like that, I'm going to be miserable and I'm

going to hurt people in the process.

So asking the kind of questions of like.

What are my values?

You know, what type of leader do I want to be?

Um, rewriting your own narratives about what it looks like to lead,

um, developing language around those values and, you know, claiming that.

If you're sensitive that that's actually an advantage then

shrinking because of that.

You know, building those clear internal narratives about who you are, why

you're doing what you're doing and where you want to go is so important.

And most of us don't pause long enough to ask those questions.

And I think, so the way that I kind of put it is.

You.

There's only one you.

There can only be one.

You don't shy away.

If a guide in a story does not shy away, the strongest character

in the story does not shy.

They're not arrogant, they're not rude, they're not proud, but they're confident.

Gandalf never backs down from if Frodo is like, I can't do this.

Gandalf doesn't go.

You're probably right.

No, you know, and Yoda doesn't go if Luke's like, are you

sure we should trust the force?

Yoda doesn't go, you know, I sometimes it lets me down.

No.

The guide stays confident in who they are.

So the, I know this is easier said than done because all of us fail in this, but.

Taking enough time to pause and go, what is my point of view on leadership?

What is my perspective?

Allow that to shift and even borrow, like I said, like when you start in

comedy, like when I started in in improv comedy, I didn't have a lot of

experience, so I borrowed styles from.

Chris Farley from Dan Aykroyd from, um, Tim Conway.

Like, these were all people who, like my parents loved and I loved, and I borrowed

their voice until I developed my own.

And I think that's even in the beginning.

Okay.

But then what happens is we, we stop and still try to be like,

you know, uh, Gary V and Patrick Lencioni and all these people who.

Put in the work and done this and they're a different person, but we're not them.

Pause long enough to develop your own point of view on leadership and that

I think will set you up for success.

That's great and, and that pause I guess it happens, has to happen probably

after you get some momentum, right?

So you, you kinda have a, a guide, even if you don't know the guide,

like Chris Farley, great example.

I love the guy, but you obviously passed away a long time ago.

But you can model a lot of things and you don't.

He didn't probably know him, uh, I'm assuming, and yeah.

But, but then there's a point where I'm assuming, you know, that's where

you, you find, oh, I'm, I'm starting to get this traction under my feet.

Now I'm moving, I'm getting some momentum.

Now I can pause and get in my quiet space and know a little bit more of who

I am, what people see me as a little bit.

Yeah.

And then after that, I mean, I, I think that's an ongoing thing,

like I think for myself, it's something I'm always asking myself.

Um, and then after that, I, I believe like then really as a

leader, show up as a guide, guides show up in stories with really two

characteristics, empathy and authority.

So they, that's what makes them a good guide for the hero is they have empathy

for what the hero is going through, and they have authority or competency

that they show up to help the hero win.

So showing up as a guide, really, like you start with empathy and

the research shows that empathy is actually a tool that is used to.

Create momentum in teams that it actually builds trust.

It lowers defenses.

It creates a sense of where people are actually more effective in the long run.

Like, so yeah, you can get up and yell at people and tell people to

do things, but if you want to be truthfully, a long-term badass.

Start with empathy.

Don't start with authority.

Start with empathy.

Authority then comes after that because once people actually can trust you,

then you can actually lean into your competency, and that's where you can

create an environment where people feel both challenged and cared for.

And I think that's the dance that has to happen, is it's not like a, well,

let's lean into being challenging all the time, or lean into caring all the time.

Or like try to find this equal balance of both.

I think as a leader there are times you need to lean into the challenge a little

bit more, and there are times you need to lean into the caring a little bit more.

They're not mutually exclusive and they work together in a dance to

actually create productivity, create healthy environments, all of that.

And so once you kind of pause and establish your own point of view, then

coming in and saying, how do I show up?

So the first one is kind of how you understand yourself, and the

second is how you show up to lead others with empathy and authority.

And to me, those two things have to go together in order for you to continue

to grow as a leader and grow your team.

That's good.

And, and just on that note there, I know you talked about this in your podcast,

but it's also something I've been kind of looping in as a mantra to myself, is

leading with heart and, and that's it.

It grounds me.

I mean, I have two little, little kids too, you know, two and six.

So it's like if I lead them as a parent as.

I gotta get stuff done, you know, like a checklist, you know?

Uh, it's not gonna work.

There's no connection there.

And I'm reminded like, it's so fast with kids.

Young kids are, you know, they'll, they'll definitely gimme feedback in real time.

Yeah, it

it's, That, so that was, that that shift for me is first it start off

like, oh, I gotta be, you know, I should be more like the teddy bear.

But it's like, okay, teddy bear's cool, but I think it's more connection in heart.

And then, and then you can go and do the thing, whatever the, the

And there's, there's honestly, there's so much research behind that,

uh, that really says like, when you create safe and emotionally safe in

particular environments, not where people, you know, there, there's a

lot of talk about toxic empathy these days, and I think you can go too far.

Like, you know, it's talking like, Hey everybody, we're down this fourth quarter.

We're probably gonna lay half of you off, but let's have a pizza party.

Let's celebrate.

Yeah.

let's no, like.

When you don't speak truth, when you, when you try to have toxic empathy

and toxic like positivity, that's not what we're talking about here.

And even, you know, sometimes it's weird.

I've actually tried to avoid in my conversations on podcasts and

in the podcast the word sensitive.

I, I think where a lot of this comes from me is like I am a sensitive person

and often felt like I had to push that sensitivity down in order to succeed.

And I actually don't think that that's true.

I don't think you have to do that.

But the reason I've even hesitated using the word sensitive is because it has such

a bad connotation in leadership circles.

It's like, oh, they're too sensitive, or You can't be too sensitive as a leader.

And I'm like, I get where that comes from.

I honestly do.

But I think we swung the pen pendulum so far that we've forgotten what it's like

to be human and care for people and um.

With being driven, like that's the part.

It's not one or the other.

It's this, like I said, it's kind of a dance, and I think one of the

ways that then I think just very practically that then that can

show up in being a badass softie.

This is something that I've really been studying a lot lately and leaning

into is this idea of practicing joy.

Now when I talk about joy, so you know, kind of when I talk about

the badass softy side, it's like understand your own point of view.

Own it.

Own who you are as a leader and why you're doing what you're doing.

Then show up as a guide with both empathy and authority.

And then just really practically for me, the thing that has come to the

surface is this idea of practicing joy.

And what I mean by that is joy is not happiness.

Happiness is different.

But I think we often look at joy.

As this thing that is the reward that happens after we've completed

a project or the hard work.

It's like, you know, we say, all right, everybody, all

right, enough goofing around.

Come on, get back to work.

You know, Hey everybody, okay, we've laughed enough.

Get back to work.

You know, like, I don't know if you've said that or thought that or heard that.

Like you even me get frustrated.

It's like, you guys are just giggling over there.

You guys get to work.

Let's get serious.

But what the research actually shows is that when people experience joy on a

regular basis, on a daily basis, their productivity increases, their ability to

bounce back from stressful situations, increases their physical health.

Increases and their immune system goes up, their inflammation goes down.

Like there is so much research around joy being the fuel for work instead

of getting in the way of work.

That if we can be people who tap into that joy and what that looks like is really.

In, in most practical ways is we find joy in relationship.

So allowing space for people to connect beyond the project, um, it allow it,

it means whimsy, providing moments that are unexpected and light and delightful.

It means pointing out things of beauty.

Celebrating success, like those kind of things.

It's, it's the relationship, it's the beauty, it's the whimsy, it's the,

the celebration of accomplishment.

Those all contribute to joy.

And if we as leaders can find moments to mark throughout the day or throughout

a project and find a redemptive perspective on the suffering that often

happens through projects and works.

And I like recognizing, hey.

You guys, we gotta put our heads down.

This is hard work.

But finding the redemptive piece to that and the joy in the midst of that, what

we see then is joy becomes strategic as part of the leadership that's

practiced and, and really greeted in.

Science, it becomes the resistance against burnout and cynicism

and the kind of, I would say, industrial age leadership models.

Um, it builds emotional endurance.

And so if we establish who we are as a leader in our point of view, and then show

up to lead others as a guide, joy is the thing that actually allows the longevity

and sustainability of leadership.

And so that's really, like, I, I think there's a lot more to being.

A badass off teeth and that like there's, you know, we can talk about

how to care for people and how to serve people well and how to provide

excellence and how to show up.

You know, like promote yourself when you don't feel like it.

Like there's all of these things that I think go into it, but for

me, that kind of space of like understanding why and who you are

and being okay with that as a leader.

Not that you're not willing to grow and learn, but understanding where,

why you're doing what you're doing.

And then showing up as a guide.

Intentionally, you're there to help other people win with empathy and

authority, and then infusing joy as a practice that actually fuels the work.

I think that is what really, to me, kind of is what I'm learning

about being a badass softie.

That's an incredible framework too, that that is, it's, anybody can

apply that to where we're at, you know, where wherever someone's at.

My question on the joy part, because I absolutely agree on that, and again,

I always look at kids, obviously I got a couple little ones, but I

learned so much is like when you're early on, they gotta learn to play.

You know, play is more important than anything.

And,

um.

yeah.

There's so much about brain development and play and what it allows for creativity

and ingenuity and also, again, what's what, the thing that I'm learning, which

is kind of crazy about this joy and play thing, is it actually is recovery.

What's interesting in these places of play that in from a scientific

perspective, play and joy actually act as a space of recovery for us.

It's not sweeping under the rug the stress, it's not ignoring

it, it's not turning a blind eye.

It's actually how we recover.

So when we've gone through hard things, yes you need to break and you know, maybe

a glass of wine and some complaining, but the reality is the best way to recover.

Physically and emotionally is to lean into play and moments of joy,

your brain will change and your physiological, like your body, your

makeup, your cells actually change.

So play and joy are a form of recovery, not just escape, which I think a lot of,

I, I, before I did this study, that's almost like where I realized, oh, I think

I used to think of joy as an escape.

It's not an escape.

It's actually part of the work, and it's actually a part necessary for

recovery and ultimately longevity.

It's, I couldn't agree more.

I'm gonna loop it back to the whole crypto bro, the statement you made,

because I, I appreciate and I study and I was, I, I wouldn't say I was one of

them, but I had a business where, that's where we're at, we're in crypto, but

it was media and sports and all this.

But um, about a year I was feeling very burnt out because

I knew that was not my space.

Even though I was working with my friends in a really cool office, we had a lot of

fun, but for whatever reason, I could not connect the joy of what we were doing.

So there was a disconnect there, and it finally, it took me a lot of, a lot of

time and stress to finally pull myself out of that, and I immediately felt better.

I'm like, oh, that was the issue.

And it was so tough because they're my friends.

But finding joy in those moments in play.

When you're stressed out or in the wrong space, I think is one of the

hardest things that we can deal with.

You feel

That's, that's when I start to realize, oh, I probably need to look at a change.

It's when I'm not capable of doing that, that it's not, it has

nothing to do with, even with the other people or the environment.

Often it's myself.

It's that I'm not living out of my own true self.

Because you're right, like I know I have been in rooms and I have had

seasons in my life where I was operating outside of who I really wanted to be,

and I can play that game and I can win.

Like you were winning in that game, right?

Like, that's, that's the part.

It's like, it wasn't like that.

You weren't a badass.

It's that you weren't, your, your, you weren't the badass in the way that you

needed to be in order for this to be long, have longevity and leadership.

You know, I was just talking with some people who are really into biohacking

and, uh, you know, longevity with life and what they were saying, they were showing

me these studies and they were saying.

We are now living longer than we have in centuries, and we are also

sicker than we have in centuries.

Have been in centuries.

So when we're talking about expanding life, it's like, yeah, people are still

working into their nineties and they're thriving from a physical side of things.

A lot of them.

And then a lot of them are also just living till they're 90, a hundred and

they're just sick and dying longer.

It's not that we're living longer, we're dying longer.

True.

Yeah.

One of the things that they were tapping into is that there is, you

know, obviously there's some, there's some how you eat and some of that stuff

is there, but they're also talking about stress and, uh, joy and longevity

and connection and how it does this.

And I think as I am getting, you know, I'm 50 now, so I'm not like old, old,

but I'm getting what I used to be, think was old and like I have a, a, a set

number of years left before at least I wanna retire, let alone, you know.

And so I don't wanna get dark before I die, but we'll just say before I die.

But there's at least a few a, a a bit of time that, that, um, I'm gonna

be still working until I retire.

I want that time.

I don't wanna slowly lean into retirement.

I don't want it to be what they would term as a long dying.

I

A

to be.

accurate.

it's like I wanna be a better, I want the next 10 years to be better than

they were when I was 30 in my, and they are like, that's the fun part

is like, I think when you get to 40, 50, every decade actually has the

potential to be better than the last.

I'm having more fun now than I did in my thirties.

But I don't wanna do this slow dying of like living in a space that's not fully

me, not bringing me joy, not allowing me to do, make the impact I wanna make.

I wanna lean into these things that help me live longer with a, like with more

happiness, more joy, and more health.

mm. It's great man, and you're doing it.

And with Badass Softy, you know, like I love the brand name.

I urge everyone to go watch you on YouTube, follow the podcast, uh,

wherever you get your, your media, that's where you're posting it.

And it connected with me immediately, you know, because it's, it's a

newer podcast for you and you're putting yourself out there.

I think you'll realize a lot of people will connect with that message.

It's not the common narrative.

It seems like, you know, to, to really lean into who we

are, but then, um, own it.

Yeah.

Because I think that unlocks everything and then we just feel

more in flow and feel great.

And I think if there was a fourth thing that I would add is have

a lot of grace for yourself.

Like that's, I think, the biggest thing in all of this,

especially as you're learning.

Like there's so many things, you know, that I look at myself and go, well,

I should have done this different and I could have done this different.

And man, I screwed up that a lot.

And how, you know, if I'm putting out there that I'm supposed to be vulnerable

and leading with heart and also being aggressive and all these things.

There's gonna be times where I fail in all of that in one day and.

Having grace for myself in that and going all right.

Keep making steps forward, keep inviting community in

who speaks into this helps it.

You know, that's the biggest thing is as you're growing, yeah, you're good

and, and as you're taking steps, like, yeah, maybe you wanna need to quit your

job and get out of your environment, but it's not the time for your family

and so you wait a year to do it.

You know?

You probably like the minute that you felt discontent in that

job, you probably didn't quit.

You probably like set it up and you're like, okay, how do I leave this?

Well.

How do I set my family up?

Well, how do I have my next thing?

And it probably took six months to a year before you, I would imagine because, and

why I say that out loud is because a lot of people think, oh, you just like left

that and started your own new thing and it got, it was great, but probably you

were discontent and having a hard time.

For it slowly.

And then it just kept building and building and you gave yourself

the space to learn and dream and figure out what life you wanted

to build and then made the move.

So that's why I say grace in all of it.

Give your grace, give yourself space and grace to develop and become, and then

even while you're becoming, understand the cliche of it all, but that it's a journey.

It's not a destination that we get to, it's this.

It's a path that we keep walking.

Yeah, man, it's, it's, and like you said, it's easy to say and, and you

know, folks listening and watching are probably feeling that too, but.

You, you nailed it on the head, J.J.. Is it?

Yeah.

It took me, I think eight months to finally figure it out and then I had to

write it out when I actually wrote out all the very specifics and got logical

with it because it was all very emotional.

I felt it like almost panic attack in my chest.

I'm sure it was never felt that before, but right when I wrote it out

and, and ended up communicating that.

Then immediately it just went.

I was like, whoa, all right.

That's it.

And I, I, I just remember feeling so great.

I had no, I actually didn't have a great plan to, but I needed that, that breakup,

you know, it just needed to happen.

And that's

healthy.

And it worked.

Yeah.

If so, yeah, I think the big thing takeaway here, grace is a, at least

for me, you know, I think the grace given us ourselves, grace, is it's

not woo woo, it's not, um, religion, even though it's all wrapped in

there, make it for yourself, like however you can find that space.

And because we all need to tap into it on the daily, especially

as busy entrepreneurs in demand.

Nothing's slowing down, so don't look in the rear view mirror.

You know, it's like, just know, like, you got it.

You're in the right space and you're headed the right direction.

Just know what you want.

Right.

Dream

bigger too.

So, man, this is, this is rad.

What, um, what's something that you're looking forward to

in the upcoming year or two?

Like something what, what?

Just, I know you have this new thing with Badass Soft.

You said you're, you know, you're transitioning in business.

What comes to mind?

Yeah, well what's interesting is, I haven't actually said this out loud, um,

on camera anywhere in, in interviews, um, is that I'm looking forward to, and

I'm just gonna kind of put out there to starting a kind of a mastermind

community next year, some point.

Uh, uh, probably early next year to get together people who have the

same kind of mindset and to do some learning and like growing ourselves,

like bringing in experts on hard conversations and how to promote yourself

when you don't know how to do that.

And then sales, you know, like just some, like let's get some things

that often are hard for people who have to try to balance this and.

Just be around like-minded people who frankly don't wanna be assholes and

like, you know, and do it together.

And then also, uh, this is kind of the fun part of it is I studied a

while back with, in part of my PhD I went to Oxford and I did, uh, some

study with Cs on CS Lewis and Tolkien.

And one of the things that they did is they would go on these pub walks.

Like for their vacations.

And in the mornings they could talk like theology, they could talk philosophy, they

could talk education in the afternoon.

It had to be all like whimsy and play.

So they did, uh, they challenged each others with riddles and they had fun,

but you couldn't do the serious talk.

And so part of like what I'm trying to kind of dreaming up in this is what does

it look like to really lean into what I'm talking about, about joy being part

of the recovery and the work is that in the mornings we're like getting down,

we're doing hot seats, we're fixing websites, we're creating messaging

campaigns, we're doing all that stuff.

And then in the afternoon, we're intentionally finding moments of

whimsy and joy and connection that allow us to actually move into

that recovery space even faster.

So, um, yeah, I haven't said that out loud yet, but

this, That's I'm putting it out there.

That's what I wanna do next year.

Speaking into existence right there, man.

And that sounds like a fun group to be a part of too.

So.

Yeah.

I, I think of it.

There you go.

I love it, man.

Well, cool.

Well, let me know when that, when that comes around.

I'm, I'm definitely very curious.

Well, dude, this is great.

Tell everybody where they can go find the show.

I kind of already said it, but yeah.

Anywhere else they can go follow you as well.

Yeah, so, um, you know, the show's Badass Softy and it's on, you know,

YouTube and Apple and Spotify.

And, um, you can also find me at.

Dr. JJ Peterson on all the socials.

So Dr. JJ Peterson on all the socials and, um, my marketing agency where I

kind of help people walk through a lot of these different things, like how

to express and live as a guide in your marketing and in your thought leadership.

Um, that is at consciousbrandagency.com.

So that's my, my marketing agency that I do consulting and product

creation for people, uh, in this space.

Uh, it's conscious brand agency.com.

Right on J Well, this is awesome talk.

I loved it.

It went everywhere.

I, I, uh, hoped it would go in way more.

So, uh, keep at it with Badass Softie man.

I'm gonna follow along and, uh, rooting for you that way

Awesome.

Thanks so much.

This

Alright, man.

Yeah, same.

Thank you.