Breaking Generational Patterns Through Storytelling - An Interview with Author K. J. Ritchie

In this episode, I sit down with first-time author K. J. Richie to discuss her compelling novel "The Lies That Bind: Mothers and Daughters." Katja shares her journey of writing a book that follows three generations of women—Joyce, Vivian, and Rosemary—as they navigate the complex dynamics of mother wounds, control, and the desperate desire to break free from generational patterns. What started as a cathartic exercise turned into a beautifully written story that gives compassion and context to harmful maternal behaviors while showing the possibility of healing. Katja opens up about her own experience as a cycle breaker, why she chose not to become a traditional mother, and how writing this book helped her find peace with her own mother wound. This conversation explores why understanding the "why" behind behaviors doesn't excuse them but can lead to profound healing, and how female friendships become the lifeline for daughters breaking free from toxic family patterns.

With this episode you'll be able to:

• Understand how generational patterns are passed down through mother-daughter relationships and why each generation may break some cycles but not all
• Recognize that motherhood doesn't happen in a vacuum—fathers and other family members play silent but significant roles in perpetuating or stopping dysfunction
• See how writing or creative expression can be a powerful tool for healing mother wounds and developing empathy for the women who came before you
• Learn why healing relational wounds cannot be done alone—it requires vulnerable connections with supportive friends and partners
• Discover the freedom in accepting the relationship you have with your mother rather than continuing to fight for what it should be
• Recognize that estrangement, while painful, can bring peace and that it's possible to have compassion for your mother without maintaining contact

Don't forget you can submit your questions about mother-daughter relationships for me to answer in upcoming episodes! And if you read "The Lies That Bind," reach out to K. J. Ritchie through her website, she wants to hear from you.

Mentioned resources:

• "The Lies That Bind: Mothers and Daughters" by K. J. Ritchie
• "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie
• K. J. Ritchie's website (contact form available)

Connect with Brittney:

• Instagram: @theBrittneyScott
• Website: www.brittneymscott.com
• Consultation to work with Brittney
• Free Resources

Help me reach more mothers and daughters by following the show & leaving a rating or review on Apple & Spotify!

Keyword tags:

Mother wound, generational patterns, cycle breaker, mother-daughter estrangement, codependency, healing through writing, maternal jealousy, role reversal, female friendship, breaking generational curses, finding peace without apology, compassion for mothers, The Lies That Bind, Katja Richie

How far would a mother

go to regain control?

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Vivian is a master manipulator.

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She inherited the behavior from

her own mother, Joyce, who endured

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a problematic childhood, creating

emotional issues that grew stronger

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and more challenging as she aged.

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Vivian had always been desperate

to escape her mother's controlling

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ways and explosive temper.

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She pictured herself better.

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Living a life created in

her fruitful imagination.

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She never anticipated that she

would end up mirroring those same

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extreme traits with her own daughter.

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Rosemary now coarsely shaped

by generations of parental

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control and emotional abuse.

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Young Rosemary must find her way to

break that cycle and make peace with both

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the life that she's been forced to lead

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and the questionable choices and behavior

of the women who came before her.

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A hidden truth helps her find peace

and some sort of understanding as

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she unravels the lies that bind.

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Welcome to the

Mother-Daughter Relationship.

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Show the podcast for mothers and

daughters who want to build stronger

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bonds, deepen their understanding

and transform their relationships.

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I'm your host, Brittany

Scott, licensed therapist and

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mother-daughter relationship coach.

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After years of working

with hundreds of daughters.

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And mothers.

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I've developed strategies that

help break generational patterns,

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heal wounds, and create the loving

relationships you've always wanted.

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Each week I'll be sharing insights from

real clients, expert interviews and

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practical tools you can use immediately

to improve your mother-daughter dynamic.

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Whether you're struggling with

communication breakdowns, navigating

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major life transitions, or simply

wanna take your already good

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relationship to the next level.

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The show is for you.

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And yes, the transformation I guide

my clients through can be yours too.

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I'll share more about

how you can work with me.

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It's time to experience the

relationship you both deserve.

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Are you ready?

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Let's dive in.

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Hello and welcome to, or welcome back to

the Mother-Daughter Relationship Show.

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I'm your host, Brittany.

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What you heard at the opening of this

episode was me reading the summary of

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a book that we are gonna talk about . A

few months ago, I received an email

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asking if I'd be interested in an

accelerated reader copy of a book, and

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I excitedly said yes because it was

about mother-daughter relationships.

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The book is called The Lies That

Bind, mothers and Daughters by Katja

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Richie, and I got to interview her and

I am sharing the interview with you.

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I am excited for you to listen to her

story, listen to her writing process

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and what this book meant for her, and

learn about the book with the hopes

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that you will read it for yourself.

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If you struggle with a mother wound

or you're raising daughters and you

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don't want to create a mother wound.

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I think this book would

be an interesting read.

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It has so many dynamics and it was written

so well in a way to understand how things

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are passed down inside of mother daughter

relationships and how generational

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patterns and curses get created and how

sometimes they're really hard to break.

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Without further ado, let's jump into.

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The interview and let

you hear from the author.

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Okay.

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Brittney: Thank you for asking me to read

the book and giving me that opportunity.

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I am so excited to chat with you.

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Well, you're welcome.

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But thank you.

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I'm really appreciating

being on your show.

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I'd like you to tell the listeners before

we jump into like the whole conversation

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and where we're gonna take this.

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Tell the listeners about the

writing process and about

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Katja: the book.

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Okay, so this is the first book I've

ever written except for a few little

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chapter books when I was a little girl.

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I read a lot when I was younger

and reading back so long ago.

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I always knew I wanted to write.

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There was just something about it.

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What I got out of books I wanted

to give to others, and so life

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took over, work takes over.

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I had an opportunity in my mid

fifties to take a break from work.

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And I did nothing for a year and

was a little nervous about that.

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However, the, the march of the following

year, I had this need to get these

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characters that had obviously built up

in my head over the year outta my head.

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My first draft was.

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Saved in April, and I finished

the manuscript in July.

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So it was a fast and

furious, incredible journey.

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I cried, I laughed.

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I, the story just developed

itself based on my life.

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People I've run into, people I know and.

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I just needed a place to put it

all, and that's where it came from.

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Very quickly, I found a

publisher, they liked it.

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We carried on and here we are.

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It's crazy.

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Here we are.

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And

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Brittney: the book.

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So while I was reading

it, I was like, oh my God.

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I tell clients about this.

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Oh my God, this is how we trace.

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The lineage in the family line, and the

book is just laid out so perfectly in how

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I help women to heal the mother wound.

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Katja: Oh my God, I'm thrilled.

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That's really great to hear.

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I wanted to kind of showcase behaviors

and I wanted to give those behaviors

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reason and compassion because.

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Mothers and daughters have

difficult relationships and

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we walk away feeling things.

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And I guess I wanted to dive a little

deeper into why did these things

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happen and why do things happen?

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Why do people behave the way they behave?

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There's gotta be a reason.

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So the three generations of women, poor

Joyce man, like she had it the worst,

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but I needed her to have that experience.

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So that then her daughter could

experience her as that person, not as

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the person she could have been, right?

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Because of those life experiences she

became, the mother, she became, and then

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it just snowballed from there, right?

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And then that little girl

had the best of intentions.

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She wanted to be a great mother.

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She wanted to have the big family.

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She wanted to have the nice home,

and her life circumstances caused.

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Things to happen, which then

created the third generation.

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Brittney: Yeah.

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One thing that I have said, so I talk

about breaking generational curses and

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cycles and you know, being cycle breakers.

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One thing that I have said is that

whoever is a cycle breaker today, I bet

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if they looked back and went through

their lineage, they will see where the

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baton is actually being handed to them

to finish cycle breaking that most moms,

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not all moms are self-aware enough,

but most moms have broken at least one.

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She just didn't break enough.

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And I think you highlighted that

in these stories, that each of them

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did try or did break one cycle.

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They just didn't break enough

to bring about enough change.

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Katja: Right.

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And offer their offspring the experience

of themselves as a un wounded person.

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Right.

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I love that you saw

that you as a therapist,

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Brittney: I mean, you wrote it,

it's all in there, you know,

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reading between the lines.

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Yeah.

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So how much of this book is your story

and how much is it just the characters?

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Katja: I would say that probably the end,

the cycle breaker is my story, right?

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I'm a cycle breaker and the

rest of it was, it came about

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from my experience in my world.

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Within my family unit, and I never

knew my grandparents, so I created the

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grandmothers that are in this story.

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I wish I had known them.

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There was a lot of times when

arguments would end, right?

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Like, you're just like your mother.

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And I would be like, what was she like?

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And heated arguments.

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Why?

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Why?

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Why is she just like her mother?

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So that's where I came from.

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I wanted to create an

explanation for myself of.

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Why I am where I am now versus

where I guess it could have been.

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But yeah, so Joyce and

Vivian are definitely two

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women that I wish I'd known.

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Okay, so you would be

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Brittney: Rosemary in the story

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Katja: In a way.

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In a way, yeah.

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Now having said that, there is a

little bit of Vivian and there is a

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little bit of Joyce in me as well.

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I feel like the emotions that all three

women felt are emotions that I have felt.

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But the story that is in the book

is not what I've experienced.

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I wanted the emotions to be there,

but I wasn't like, I didn't want

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to share my personal experiences.

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Right?

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But I wanted to show those

emotions because life is hard.

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We have feelings and things happen,

and we get into places of being

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completely lost and not knowing

what to do, and then decisions.

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Are made, I guess, based

on our experiences.

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Brittney: So there's another theme in

this book that I feel really shined,

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and it's motherhood doesn't happen

in a vacuum, so it's not happening

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between a mother and a daughter.

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Mothering and parenting and motherhood is

happening in society and often we blame

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and demonize mothers without ever looking

at the rest of the picture of who's

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around and who else is a part of this.

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Parenting this motherhood.

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And in your story there were the fathers,

the men, and they're around, they're in

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the story, but no one ever intervened.

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And I feel like that shows

like it's real world.

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There's so many fathers that are a part

of mother wound stories and their pieces.

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They did nothing to stop her.

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Katja: Yeah.

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It's interesting that you bring that

up because I've had that conversation.

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Readers have told me like Elliot

should have stepped up and he didn't.

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But Elliot had his own wounds based on

his relationship with his mother, and

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his focus was to manage his spouse.

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In a better way than his

father managed his mother.

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Right.

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And I think that it's, I love that people

are catching that because he tried, right?

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He tried to support Rosemary, but

knowing his wife, he knew that

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if she saw any of that support.

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They'd be held to pay for both.

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So that's why.

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But Roy and Sam, I love

Roy and Sam as parents.

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They really did wonders for Teddy, right?

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They were there and Teddy was

able to become a successful

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individual and a father himself

because of Roy and, and Sam, right?

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But then poor.

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Vivian wasn't so lucky.

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Nope.

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'cause she fell right under her mom.

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And I think that back in that

era, you know, girls didn't

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go to work with their dads.

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They didn't, she wasn't pulled

into that environment where it

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was much more fruitful for great

conversations and relationship building.

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She was just stuck at home

with mom and did what she knew

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best and that was to appease.

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And try and be the best

daughter that she could be.

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Okay.

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Brittney: I'm gonna come back to

more of the book, but that way we

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get to know a little bit about you.

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Katja: Mm-hmm.

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Brittney: So, knowing that this book was

written because of what you experienced.

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But it's not necessarily your story.

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Mm-hmm.

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What was it like to write this, knowing

that you have your own mother wound, but

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you're writing for other characters and

stories that aren't necessarily yours?

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Katja: Yeah.

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What was it like?

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Cathartic.

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I highly recommend, oh, my therapist

told me to write a book years

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ago, and it was incredibly helpful

because I was able to create empathy.

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For the women that came before me, and one

of my editors said, you know, I wanted to

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hate Vivian, but I empathize with her so

much, and that's exactly what I wanted.

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I walked away from the final manuscript

feeling peaceful, happy, hopeful, and

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cleansed of heaviness and weight that

I was carrying, so I highly recommend.

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I mean it, like I said, I, I cried

and I laughed, and when I still read

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parts of the book, I cry because I

feel for the pain of the characters.

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But life is painful.

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We all walk around like,

Hey, everything's great.

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Yeah.

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The reason I wanted to write this book is

I wanted to have truthful conversations

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with women about their relationships,

because for years I just played a role.

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Everything's great.

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Everything's great.

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And I shared with a friend a little bit

of this story before it was finished and

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she said, oh my God, I have the same, I

haven't talked to my mother in 20 years.

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And that conversation

would've never happened.

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Our friendship would've

never become as close.

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Had I not been writing this book because

we would've never talked about it,

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it's something you just don't say it.

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There's a shame in it.

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There's sadness, there's grief, like

all those things, and it's just not

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something you open up and talk about.

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And now I can open up and talk about this.

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Brittney: Yes.

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There's also a guilt there.

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I think daughters who don't talk

to their moms get guilted for it.

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Katja: Oh yeah.

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And I was so afraid of being

judged and seen as a terrible

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person, but I think my life and my

mother's life is way better now.

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She is doing what she does, and I'm doing

what I'm doing and it, I have a lot of

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compassion and understanding, diving

into these characters and really kind of

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living through them, recognizing I get it.

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It was hard and it wasn't ideal and I'm

okay with it and I certainly hope that

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she's completely okay with it as well.

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Does she know about the book?

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Yes.

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And would I want to talk

to her more about it?

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Perhaps one day if she'd like,

but I'm okay also not to because.

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Women in my situation will

understand this completely.

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And like a friend of mine

said, I'm so okay with moving

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forward the way things are.

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There's no need because once you

find your peace, there's no need.

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Right.

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When relationships are difficult,

some people can push through,

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but then others decide not to.

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Brittney: Right.

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Katja: Yeah.

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Brittney: There you've come to the level

of acceptance of the mom you received.

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Katja: Yeah.

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And

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Brittney: it hasn't been easy.

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I mean, the

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Katja: book proves that.

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Yeah.

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It hasn't been easy, but we're all

on this planet to try and do the

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best we can for ourselves, right?

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And I think for so long I was

trying to do the best for someone

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else and you can't do that.

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Melody Al's book, codependent

No More changed my life.

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One sentence in there changed my life.

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You're not responsible for other people.

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And I thought I was.

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I thought I was responsible

for other people's happiness.

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That book started this snowball of me

recognizing that I've just been busy.

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Living somebody else's life and

trying to do the best I can, and

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it's so much easier not to do that.

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And I think it's very respectful.

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Who am I?

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You know, what is gonna

make someone else happy?

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I look back now and it's like, God,

I wish I could have gotten to this

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conclusion years ago because it's not

my place to try and make anybody happy.

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Right.

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And to try and make someone

else's traumatic life better.

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Yeah.

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So I think that's big takeaway.

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So that book was huge.

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And anyone going through this

process, that's a good book to read.

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Brittney: Yes, there's so much

freedom in that, that you don't

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have to do anything for others.

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You don't have to live your life for them.

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You don't have to.

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Make decisions for them, you get

to just live your life for you.

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Katja: Yeah.

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And I realize, like I say now, it's

like how disrespectful of me to assume,

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right, that I could change anything for

some other human being on this planet.

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I mean, it's just So,

again, I took a while.

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Bloomer.

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That's okay.

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Brittney: I think so even in the

late bloomer, it taking a while.

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I think that also goes to show

where society is today and where

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daughters are today, and that there

is so much support and freedom

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in actually making these choices.

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Because generations before

you couldn't Exactly.

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Katja: Exactly.

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Women lived with dire consequences,

whether it was their actions

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or somebody else's actions on

them, like they had no choice.

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I feel like women of my era are

recognizing that the same thing that

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I'm recognizing right now, it's like

there is so much effort put into so many

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different places rather than ourselves.

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And hey, we actually have the

opportunity to really take care

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of ourselves instead of others and

let other people take care of you.

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Yeah.

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Well there's, that's a hard one.

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That's hard.

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Brittney: Yeah.

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Okay.

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Accepting that help and

letting it be there.

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Right.

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I mean, women are taught to give care.

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They're taught to be, you know,

caregivers and, um, support others.

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Katja: Yeah.

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Brittney: Most women aren't

taught how to accept it or how

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to ask for it and receive it.

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Katja: Yeah.

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I think that's just the nature

of being the person who has the

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children and has to take care of.

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Right.

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Brittney: Yes.

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Also, the nature of being

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Katja: a woman, being a girl.

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Yeah.

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It's just the natural role of females,

I think, and not to take anything away

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from men who are great caregivers.

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Not at all.

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We're talking about gals, right?

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They're

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Brittney: the anomaly.

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Yeah.

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And they exist and, and we love

them, but we inherently teach girls

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to care born, who does a mom look

to for support The next in line.

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Katja: Yeah.

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And I think that is a

natural and maybe even subc.

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Action.

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Right?

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Like I listened to things that I shouldn't

have probably listened to when I was

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younger because I was a mini therapist.

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She downloaded stuff to me that she was

frustrated about, and I think it is.

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And if that daughter grows up

being that person, fulfilling

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that role, then why not?

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It just grows and grows.

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And codependency never even

knew what that word meant.

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I didn't.

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And then when I realized

what it meant, it's like, oh.

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That's incredible

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Brittney: that I've done that,

but that's what happens when

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moms need their daughters to

emotionally take care of them, when

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it should be the other way around.

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Mothers are supposed to emotionally

take care of their daughters and not

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need it back from them in return.

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Yeah.

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That's part of flipping

everything in the right direction.

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Katja: Yeah.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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But I'm not a mother.

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I'm a stepmom, and the thought of

being a mother was so monumental to me.

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I thought there's no way I could

ever do that job, so I didn't.

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I love being a stepmom.

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Yeah.

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I love being a co-parent with my

husband's ex-wife and him and I mean,

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I think that we've come a long way.

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But yeah, being a mother was just so

big for me that I just couldn't see

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myself being able to fulfill that role.

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Brittney: Would that be because

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Katja: of the

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Brittney: example

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Katja: you got?

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Brittney: Mm-hmm.

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Katja: Well, and then

fear of repeating a cycle.

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Brittney: Yeah.

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Katja: Not wanting to become her.

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Absolutely.

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Petrified that I would, and you know what?

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I can probably admit Fullheartedly, that

I don't have the capacity, capability,

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the tools to actually be that.

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So stepmom worked for me.

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Brittney: Yeah.

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So when women are completely honest about

that, I don't like that there's now this

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kind of back and forth on, well, why

wouldn't a woman wanna become a mother?

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Or, you know, I never wanna have children.

403

Well, that's just rude.

404

Or like there's a back and forth now

on women not want to become mothers.

405

But I'm actually so proud of the

women who will say that out loud.

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Who will make that decision?

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Because that one that frees you to be

a mother, and I'm putting it in quotes,

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but being a mother in your own way, so

for you that became stepmother, which

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is a different role, but still a caring

role, or it frees you up to be an auntie.

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It frees you up to be a support system

for another mom because you have more

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capacity to support her and then she

can be the best mom that she can be.

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Katja: Yeah.

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Brittney: I don't understand why we look

at women who choose, well, not we 'cause

414

I don't, but some of society looks at

women who choose not to become mothers

415

and pretend like they don't understand it.

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I think there's so much freedom in that.

417

And also do we all have to be

mothers traditional mothers?

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Katja: Yeah, because to your point, there

is a lot of caregiving that's needed.

419

And jump in and, and help others

if you're not going to, and I, I

420

wholeheartedly agree with you, is like

any kind of judgment on a decision that

421

is, that huge should be kept to oneself

because there are so many reasons.

422

And hopefully if a person reads this book,

they understand like, oh yeah, there are

423

a lot of deep level things that we're all

carrying that we're not talking about.

424

And there are some pretty good

reasons and selfless, I would

425

guess, to not become a mother.

426

I think it's selfless.

427

I agree.

428

Because I mean, I've come to this place

now in my life and I wonder, oh, I

429

probably could have managed it with the

person I am now even five years ago.

430

There's been a lot of growth over

the last few years for me, and I

431

just think that, you know, more

kindness towards each other is.

432

Paramount at this point as we all

try and come to our own selves at

433

the age that we finally get there.

434

Brittney: Right?

435

I, I think it's selfless too.

436

Again, I think I'm gonna keep

coming back to the word freedom

437

'cause I'm gonna come back to the

last two characters of the book.

438

So freedom is what is ringing in my head.

439

There's so much freedom in knowing

that you don't have to be a mother

440

if you don't believe you have the

capacity, because mothering is so

441

much more than birthing a child.

442

Mm, are you going to cause

another mother wound or are you

443

gonna put a stop to them here?

444

And if you can't do that, why bring

another child that could be harmed?

445

Because you are not ready

for what motherhood entails.

446

It's so much more than just giving birth.

447

Katja: But then like along

with the judgment, there's

448

so much social pressure too.

449

Married, when are you

gonna have your kids?

450

When are you gonna have another one?

451

Right.

452

So like back off.

453

Yeah.

454

Right.

455

Let people be what they

are and who they are.

456

Yeah.

457

It's interesting.

458

It's an interesting place to

try and make the best life.

459

For oneself with so much pressure

on so many different levels.

460

Brittney: Okay, so Rosemary, I'm

not gonna give away the ending,

461

but I was so happy with how things

turned out for her, and it was like

462

a relief that, okay, I needed this.

463

I didn't know where we were going.

464

I didn't know what was gonna

happen once her story started.

465

Katja: Yeah.

466

Brittney: But I realized once

I got to the end, how much I

467

needed that to be the ending.

468

Oh, good.

469

Because I could feel like

myself, like, oh, okay.

470

We got here, but why freedom keeps

coming up for me and within her

471

story is the friends she made.

472

Yeah.

473

Because that changed everything.

474

Yeah.

475

And I don't wanna say

anything else after that, but

476

Katja: yeah.

477

So that came about.

478

I have some very, very

good friends from early on.

479

A handful.

480

I've never been one with a huge group

of friends because I'm that person.

481

However, in adulthood I have made a

gang of women friends, and it was hard

482

for me at first, but over the years.

483

I've come to see how wonderful

female support can be and then that's

484

another piece of this whole story is

like I can lean on people now, where

485

before I couldn't, I didn't know how

to, I didn't know how to navigate

486

a female relationship very well.

487

So therefore my two or three very good

friends from long, long who've always

488

been there and now I have like this.

489

Incredible group of women who are

wonderful mothers who have shown

490

me how great a parent can be.

491

I've been jealous of their children

because of what they've received,

492

and it goes on and on and on.

493

But yeah, I think that friendships are

huge and if someone has the ability and

494

the courage to take the step and trust

another and tell their story, it might

495

be the opening into something amazing.

496

It was for me for sure.

497

And my husband was the first friend

that I had who I told things to.

498

Okay.

499

And he accepted me.

500

And meanwhile I thought, okay, once I tell

you this stuff, it ain't gonna be good.

501

Right?

502

He's still here, so that's good.

503

But then little by little, you

know, it just kind of snowballed.

504

And like I say, like this book

now has just opened up exactly

505

what I wanted because now I hope

that someone can contact me and

506

say, yeah, I've felt this and.

507

I see that it can be different,

and so hence that's where

508

Sarah came from and she was

509

Brittney: that friend.

510

Yeah.

511

I was gonna ask where in your story was

that protection, but you answered it.

512

There's so much healing in

other people, and I think that's

513

the hard part about healing.

514

Relational wounds.

515

Mother wounds are a relational

wound and so many people take

516

this big thing healing this.

517

Giant thing that needs to happen

and then try to do it alone.

518

And you can't heal

relational wounds alone.

519

You have to heal them in relationships.

520

Katja: And it's hard, like

it's painful and it's hard and

521

it takes a while, you know?

522

It doesn't happen overnight.

523

And then you have slip backs and setbacks

and you fall and you stumble, and you just

524

gotta kind of keep going and reaching out.

525

To those people that support because

they still support even if you

526

Brittney: fall.

527

Sarah said something to Rosemary and I

wrote down the question from the book.

528

She said, what happened to

your mom to make her that way?

529

I was like, oh, I love that question,

because that's part of the healing,

530

is understanding the women before you.

531

Katja: Yes.

532

And you know, I don't know if

Rosemary understood her mother.

533

Well, Vivian didn't let her.

534

No.

535

Yeah, so.

536

Who knows where that will sit,

but I think Rosemary found her way

537

and you know with Mary as well.

538

God bless Mary.

539

Yes.

540

Yes.

541

We won't give away too much, but Right.

542

Like the

543

Brittney: key is it doesn't take a lot.

544

No, no.

545

It just takes relationships.

546

And I know that that's hard

because that's so vulnerable.

547

Like how you said with your husband,

if you know I'm gonna say this and

548

you're like, this is probably the

end of it, you have to be okay with

549

that possibly being the end of it.

550

And that is so scary

that why would I do that?

551

I might as well just keep this to myself.

552

Katja: Oh, 100%.

553

And I took years to tell

him anything about my past.

554

He couldn't believe it.

555

And again, you know, people who

experienced certain things are

556

black and white and yeah, I didn't

have a thought that he would

557

stick around, thought for sure.

558

He'd be like, I asked too much baggage.

559

Right.

560

And it's crazy to think that way

because that's not how people are.

561

Brittney: Yeah.

562

You feel that?

563

I think, yeah.

564

It's scary.

565

Okay.

566

Another quote from the book that stuck

out to me was, this came from Rosemary.

567

It says, I finally got away from her

and now my mind won't let her go.

568

Katja: Yeah.

569

How about that?

570

Brittney: Right.

571

So I brought that one up because I

speak to a lot of women, and I'm sure

572

some of them are listening to this.

573

Who choose no contact are estranged,

um, which I think you mostly are.

574

So I finally got away from her

and now my mind won't let her go.

575

That just sh estrangement even in the

best decision when it needs to be the

576

decision, it's still very difficult.

577

Yeah.

578

Katja: There's no easy way.

579

It isn't easy and it continues to be

painful, but 90% of the time it's peace.

580

I'm grateful, right?

581

Like it's different and it's

good, but it's still there.

582

I'm glad you caught that.

583

Brittney: I fully read

this and I took my time.

584

I love it.

585

Like I have quite a few notes here.

586

Katja: Oh, I love it.

587

Brittney: But this will turn on

to be like a two hour episode

588

if we go through everything.

589

Maybe a part two, one day, maybe.

590

Yes.

591

Let people read it and then come

back so we're not giving spoilers.

592

Hey, I think you did a wonderful

job with the themes that show

593

up in many mother wound stories.

594

And like I said before, you not

only showed the lineage of the

595

women, you showed the sidebars

of the men that were there.

596

That just couldn't make a difference.

597

Katja: Yeah.

598

I'm glad.

599

Brittney: Thank you.

600

I'm honored to hear you say that.

601

Yeah.

602

There were so many parts where

I'm just like, okay, yes.

603

Like yes, this is, I need women with

a mother, woman to read this because

604

it shows how it's easily passed down.

605

It shows how you said earlier that you

needed the behaviors to make sense.

606

And I tell people often all behavior

does make sense if you know the context.

607

Yes.

608

Now, they don't necessarily make sense

in like, well, why would she do that?

609

It's, oh, I understand

how she would do that.

610

Katja: Yeah.

611

And understand the thinking

behind certain actions maybe.

612

I mean, you know where, I don't wanna give

anything away, but on the stairs, Vivian

613

and Rosemary on the stairs, Vivian truly

thought that she was doing something good.

614

And I asked my book club this, and

they're like, oh no, she's just a bitch.

615

Yep.

616

But when I was writing it, I hoped to

show that she thought she was doing

617

the right thing and it was horrible.

618

But she walked away thinking,

okay, stronger, better.

619

I don't have to worry about her.

620

Brittney: Yes.

621

And that is why even when we talked,

when we met before the recording, when

622

I said I, I'm supposed to hate Vivian.

623

I know I am just reading the story and

it's very easy to hate her, but because

624

of the work that I do and reading

the story, I'm like, okay, let me

625

see what's actually playing out here.

626

She did try and so it's hard to completely

hate her because I can see the points in

627

where she wanted things to be different.

628

She desperately did.

629

She just didn't know how, and that doesn't

make any of this okay for Rosemary.

630

That doesn't mean that

Rosemary should return.

631

It just provides a level of understanding

and healing so that this can stop.

632

Katja: That was the point, right?

633

Like right.

634

I just felt like we needed

to see a positive outcome.

635

I was going to go a third generation,

and I asked my publisher like,

636

how much can I torture the reader

and how much torture myself?

637

He is like, torture him.

638

Torturous, no, no, I just can't.

639

And it became such a win for Rosemary

that I got so excited about her

640

win and her bravery at the end.

641

And the family that she just

kind of stumbled into too, right?

642

Yes.

643

Brittney: I think that's why at the end

where I was like, okay, I needed that.

644

I will say the end is part of what,

like, I mean the whole book is

645

written very well, but the ending.

646

Makes me want to share this because

if women are gonna know that

647

healing a mother wound is possible,

you showed that it wasn't pretty.

648

So I, you know, I need

people to read the book.

649

It wasn't pretty, didn't

happen right away.

650

It wasn't like, oh, so now everything's

like butterflies and rainbows for her.

651

None of that happened.

652

It was still very difficult, but the

reader gets to see that it's possible.

653

Katja: Yeah, that's what I want.

654

There's a potential there because.

655

We walk around and we hurt and oh

my gosh, if this little story helps

656

somebody figure it out, that would be

657

Brittney: amazing.

658

It absolutely will.

659

And I, I think you have a spinoff.

660

Mm, a spinoff opportunity.

661

Tell me, what are you talking about More?

662

I need to know about a grace.

663

Oh, she needs a story because

she's sitting between.

664

A generation broken and

a generation healed.

665

And I will not tell why she sits there.

666

I'm not the, I need the listeners

to go read 'cause I need them to

667

understand what I'm talking about.

668

Without me saying it, you have

a spinoff opportunity because

669

that left me with, okay, what is

this actually going to look like?

670

What's going to happen?

671

Right.

672

Because this can go very bad also.

673

It has a potential to not.

674

Yeah, and I'm wondering.

675

Who will be the catalyst for it to not,

because it could be one of the two women.

676

Katja: Yeah.

677

Brittney: Right.

678

But which would it be?

679

It really like, it could, you

opened up the door for redemption.

680

Yeah.

681

And so if you ever wanted to write

again, I need to know about her.

682

I want to know.

683

I'm going to make a note.

684

Katja: I am writing.

685

Okay.

686

But that is a, a really

good little nugget.

687

I'm gonna sit on that.

688

I'm gonna let that brew.

689

A little.

690

Brittney: I like it.

691

I mean, I see two possible outcomes

and I see two possible reasons why.

692

And so I'd wonder what her

story would turn out to be.

693

Who is she?

694

What happens to her?

695

Right?

696

She

697

Katja: was so loved.

698

Yes.

699

And saw a family that none

of the others really saw.

700

And then, you know, based on the timing

as she becomes an adult, DNA testing

701

could jump in here and blow it all apart.

702

Right?

703

But also, so could her family, right?

704

Yes.

705

It could be like potentially

Vivian's last attempt to destroy.

706

Yes.

707

Yeah.

708

Brittney: Or

709

Katja: the other

710

Brittney: way.

711

I've gotta know.

712

So I glad you brought that up.

713

Yes.

714

I need you, if you go down this

path, I need to know, so, okay.

715

You'll be the first to know.

716

Katja: Maybe I'll toss some things at

you and let you know what you think.

717

Brittney: Oh, yes, please.

718

I would love that.

719

Oh, that's great.

720

Well, is there anything you

wanna leave the listeners

721

Katja: with?

722

Oh my gosh.

723

Contact me if you read the book.

724

Please contact me.

725

My website, I have a contact form.

726

Let me know what you think.

727

Start a conversation.

728

Like I, I want to talk about the different

outcomes of people's experiences.

729

Right.

730

And gosh, if this book

helps, I wanna hear it.

731

I wanna hear it.

732

Brittney: I will leave all the contact

information in the show notes, so

733

Katja: Wonderful.

734

Brittney: Just click on the notes.

735

Everything will be there.

736

Great.

737

Yeah.

738

Oh my goodness.

739

Thank you for writing this.

740

Thank you for letting me read early.

741

Katja: Oh, thank you.

742

Thank you for reading early and

thank you for having me on this.

743

I mean, meeting you has been wonderful.

744

I love that you got what I wanted

people to get out of this, and I do

745

hope that your listeners find some

nuggets in here that will help.

746

Brittney: Yeah, me too.

747

I think they will.

748

I do think they will.

749

And it wasn't hard for me

to pull all of this out.

750

Katja: Hmm.

751

Brittney: It was just like, oh yeah,

like I was so happy some things did

752

come up 'cause I was hoping they would.

753

And then it was right there.

754

Katja: There it was.

755

Brittney: So, I'm glad

there's a lot in here.

756

You did amazing.

757

And yeah, thank you for this contribution

to the mother-daughter space.

758

I think this is huge.

759

I'm honored.

760

Katja: I'm honored.

761

I wanna talk to you again.

762

You'll, this is not the end.

763

I think this is a brand new relationship.

764

Oh, I love it.

765

I love it.

766

I love what you're doing

and I, I love your podcast.

767

So I, I'm gonna push everybody

to listen to this and, and

768

the rest of your episodes.

769

'cause I think there are some

really wonderful pieces that

770

you put out there already.

771

Thank you.

772

Okay.

773

Brittney: And this book I will

add to my recommendations and if

774

you're listening, please click the

link in the show notes and get you

775

a copy of the book and read it.

776

It's healing no matter where

you are in your journey.

777

The book is healing.

778

I think she did a phenomenal job.

779

I hope that you enjoyed learning about the

book, and I do hope that you're interested

780

and will read the story for yourself.

781

I am not bringing this to you

because I get any kind of pay for it.

782

I genuinely read the book.

783

I have a hard copy now and I enjoyed

it, and so I want you to read it.

784

I think it can bring about a

lot of understanding or a lot of

785

healing just by reading about a

mother-daughter who is not you, and

786

knowing that you're not alone in this.

787

I do want to add in a correction

and say that the book that she

788

mentioned earlier called Codependent

No More is by Melody Beatie.

789

She had said the wrong last name,

but I'm gonna include a link to that

790

book as well in the show notes so you

don't have to go on Google search.

791

And I will leave info on

you finding the author.

792

If you do read the book and enjoy

it, you can share that with her

793

and let her know your thoughts.

794

That is all I have for today, and

I will catch you in the next one.

795

Okay.

796

That's all for today's episode of the

Mother-Daughter Relationship Show.

797

Thanks so much for

spending this time with me.

798

I hope you picked up some valuable

insights that you can start using right

799

away in your own relationship to create

deeper connection and understanding.

800

If something from today's

episode resonated with you,

801

don't keep it to yourself.

802

Share it with the mother or daughter in

your life who needs to hear this message.

803

And while you're at it, please

consider leaving a rating.

804

And review so we can reach more

families and transform the way mothers

805

and daughters relate to each other.

806

For those ready to take the next

step, you can visit my website to

807

learn more about my private coaching

programs and my program designed

808

specifically for mother-daughter pairs.

809

Whether you're dealing with communication

challenges, life transitions, or

810

just wanna strengthen an already

good relationship, I'm here to help.

811

Thank you so much for listening.

812

I'll see you in the next one.